Shannon Miller/Tatiana Gutsu Montage closest olympic AA EVER

[galveston]

We can argue which gymnast performed better until the end to time; it doesn't alter one fact. Gutsu didn't earn the right to be there. She FELL during team qualifying and wasn't among the Unified team's top scorers. It has been PUBLICLY acknowledged that the team lied about Roza Galieyva being injured. Roza wasn't injured. Tatiana did not earn the right to compete in the all around. She shouldn't have been there. Period. Shannon Miller is the legitimate winner. CASE CLOSED.

[Matrixmadman]

Dont know anything about this sport but good video for sure.

[beautifulsarah100]

"Bad guy" Tatiana from evil Russia in her black leo and black scrunchie VS "Good guy" Shannon from free America in her white leo and white scrunchie. What more could you ask for?

[Planetimage2]

Gutsu beated Miller's sorry ass!!

[beautifulsarah100]

ASSUMING the scoring for the first three events was "correct" going into the vault, Shannon should be the AA champ. Her first vault was absolutely a 10, and the judges had their heads up their asses. ASSUMING all three other vault scores were "correct," it was Shannon's gold. People will argue this one till the end of time. Fortunately few debate who the 2000 AA champ really is.

[bookiewormie1]

@beautifulsarah100 It was piked at the end not perfect score is correct.

[CubanColonel]

"I firmly believe that any person's finest hour, the greatest fulfillment of all that he holds dear, is that moment when he has worked his heart out in a good cause and lies exhausted on the field of battle - victorious."

Vince Lombardi

[Gymguy05]

miller should have won gold. she got robbed... judges just wanted it to be a cinderella story for gutsu... ashame

[tumblegal123]

@Gymguy05 agreed the competition was definitely favored towards gutsu....who didnt even qualify in the first place..

[Holycani]

@Gymguy05 Gutsu was a better gymnast though, she had more difficulty than Miller in all the apparatuses. Considering how close they ended up I dont think we can speak of "winning" or "losing" in a conventional fashion, they were both equally good in the eyes of the judges

[Gymguy05]

@Holycani We can agree to disagree... Miller was far more "refined" in all of her movements. Very political decision at this Olympic Games.

[violet46]

@Gymguy05 I have a feeling that if Shannon had won the all-around in '92 she wouldn't have stuck around as long as she did after. She went back to the '96 Olympics and we all know how well she did there :)

[MrJST94]

@Gymguy05

so not true!

yes she was pulled in by her coach in sted of galieva but she diserved the gold!

the only way why you think that Miller should've won is because she is american.

just accept that Soviets are better!

[JohnPhilipSousa519]

@MrJST94 First of all, Tatiana was competing for the Unified Team, not the USSR here. And she was still way overscored, as is usual of the Eastern European countries at the time, and still is today. Second, if the USSR and the athletes were so great, why is it not around any more?

[JohnPhilipSousa519]

@MrJST94 First of all, Tatiana was competing for the Unified Team, not the USSR here. And she was still way overscored, as is usual of the Eastern European countries at the time, and still is today. Second, if the USSR and the athletes were so great, why is it not around any more?

[MrJST94]

@JohnPhilipSousa519

well, because the system of politics was not good in the USSR but the choaches were.

the USSR was just better in gymnastics than the USA.

[AvrgeGrl81]

@MrJST94 At that time when it came down to the two individuals, Gutsu wasn't the better gymnast. She was the better story for the sport. During '90-'92 the judging in the Worlds etc was so skewed it was ridiculous. When Kim Z won the All-Around it was the other side saying it wasn't fair. There were judges docking for points because they didn't like country girls were from, if there leotard was not 110% perfect and so on. A lot of the gymnasts where robbed in those years not just Americans.

[Dark0blivion]

What version of Apologize plays in this video?

[kiwigymnast16]

I loved this montage!!!!!!!!!! *FAVORTIES*

[russianskatingfan]

Someone like Lysenko was outrageously undermarked compared to Miller on every event. On beam Lysenko who would beat Miller for beam gold in event finals is hammered for one wobble and only gets 9.862 while Miller has 2 obvious balance breaks which are ignored and not deducted at all. On floor Lysenko was going to get the same score as Miller even without the out of bounds which is a joke.

[russianskatingfan]

then on vault for all the crying from obsessive Miller fanatics about Miller not getting a 10 on vault, Lysenko was the one really screwed. She did a double yurchenko nearly as well as the best yurchenko fulls of the games, and so should have had by far a higher score than anyone on vault but the rules gave her no credit for it. Then on bars Lysenko was undermarked a bit at 9.9 compared to ones like Gutsu and Miller too. With fair scores Lysenko probably beats Miller in the AA too.

[LETMEINGUYS]

Shannon Miler was the champion maybe not on paper but clearly the tapes show shannons lins and form and difficulty was so much better thanthat whore painted Tatiana Gutsu

[ImmortalSynn]

Excellently done video, extremely!

And just to toss a hat into the ring, yes, even 17yrs later... it still seems fishy how Shannon was denied a 10, and how Gutsu was even there in the first place. That's not to impugn on either of their skill.

[viveforlove]

this video was made really well with the song. shannon's vault was perfect.

[gymstar6506]

personally i think miller should of won as twilliger123 pointed out gustu SHOULD NOT of been there in the first place.of course miller would not of gotten a 10 its europe and over there they cant face it if a european does not have the gold.

[comanecisalto1]

sore loser. tatiana was the better gymnast and deserved the gold, miller was lucky to be on that podium

[growsonwalls]

Ah these were the golden days of gymnastics. Actually in retrospect Shannon and Tatiana had a lot in common. Both performed the most difficult routines compared to the rest of their teammates. They were clearly the best gymnasts of the field. Unfortunately both since their competive life ended have also experienced quite a few personal problems. I hope both are happy now.

[pappysprite]

My two absolute favorite gymnasts of all time. This was a tough one to decide. I think the judging on both were skewed. I wish they didn't start the new life rule. My opinion on the 4 optionals who was the best: Beam-Gutsu, Bars-Gutsu, Floor-Tie, Vault-Shannon.

[twilliger123]

Based on the fact that Gutsu shouldn't have been there in the first place Miller deserved the gold.

[carelt1985]

Shannon Miller deserved the gold.

[zak027]

Gutsu delivered for her nation which is what those that put her on the team wanted. It wasn't here idea to replace anyone in the end all that matters is she got gold! Shannon got her Gold in Atlanta 96. Both girls were breathtaking gymnasts, highly skilled trained competitive athletes I'm not gonna debate the outcome rather let history speak for itself and just be so very thankful that I was alive to witness it and feel the emotions the olympics bring.

[mrparke007]

Good montage, but it was a little ADD for me. I didn't understand why you cut from one gymnast to the other at different moments. I would have liked to see both of their UB and BB dismounts. The 89-92 COP was very landing-oriented, so it would be interesting to be able to flash compare the two gymnasts on all apparatuses.

Thanks for the video!!

[Lilyluvhorses007]

excellent montage. I loved how you used the cutting of the clips to show the similarities, and how it ended at the perfect moment of the song!

[gayskatingfan]

Awesome montage. Great music to highlight the drama of the battle. As for who should have won, everytime I try and analyze it all I have a hard time not changing my mind, so that shows how close it was. I do think Boginskaya and Milosovici should been alot closer to both then they were however.

[todosobretodo]

I recently rewatched the entire Barcelona AA competition and scored the routines as an individual judge would have. I feel that the AA should have gone like this:

1. Miller 10.0 9.95 9.85 9.90 39.70

2. Bogi 10.0 9.90 9.90 9.85 39.65

2. Gutsu 9.90 9.95 9.90 9.90 39.65

4. Milo 9.95 9.85 9.85 9.95 39.60

5. Lisenko 10.0 9.85 9.90 9.80 39.55

6. Bontas 9.90  9.80 9.85 9.95 39.50

[gayskatingfan]

I like those results. Gutsu's big mistake on floor and less than stellar vault combined should have cost her the AA gold I think. Bogi was totally underscored to be as low as she was I think also. Milo did really well on floor and vault, but her bars and beam were mediocre, and bars overmarked. Lysenko unfortunately had too many mistakes to couldnt medal but still could have been higher. Bontas was way overmarked for her performances that day, it was a joke she almost medaled. So good work.

[buttleelegant]

Hmm interesting scores. You have Bogi placing alot higher than the judges did. Lysenko a 10 on vault?  Her vault wasnt executed perfectly so are you giving her extra credit for the difficulty since if a full yurchenko was worth a 10 than her double yurchenko should be out of more than a 10 to begin with.

[todosobretodo]

I did feel Bogi was overscored a bit by the judges on floor, but she was outstanding on vault and bars. True, not as much difficulty, but no one could swing as elegantly as she did back then.

Lisenko did bend her knees slightly on her vault landing, but for a double twisting Yurchenko to be done so well in 1992, I thought she also deserved a 10.

[buttleelegant]

I dont know how I would have scored Bogi on floor. I loved her choreography but her tumbling was mid 1980s level. I agree with you on vault and bars. Beam that night she didnt do her best routine with one pretty significant mistake on a leap.

[buttleelegant]

The other interesting thing is Gutsu's vault looks alot better from behind than from the side. The form looks like it was much better from behind whereas from the side you can see the form breaks more clearly. I assume the judges were at the side though.

[todosobretodo]

Yes, I agree with both your comments. The 1992 Games are still my most favorite. It's still fun to think about what might have been, or what should have been. In the end, the judges did a pretty good job, but there was room for improvement.

[gymfan82]

That isn't how the sport works.

[JLFAN2009]

I have no doub that Shannon would have won, had the 1992 Olympics been in the USA. There is no way that the judges wouldn't have given her a 10 on her vault. True: she was overscored on the beam; but then, Tatiana was overscored on the floor and vault.

[GymFloozie]

Shannon shouldn't have needed the Games to be in the U.S. to win. What the judges said, in essence, was that Shannon's vaults WERE NOT .013 better than Tatiana's. In my opinion, Shannon's first was a 10 and her second was a 9.975. Together they were MORE than .013 better than both of Gutsu's. But Shannon seemed happy enough with silver, so what the hell. All I know is I'm glad I'm not a judge.

[JLFAN2009]

As they said above: Shannon did outscore Tatiana on the vault; it's just that Tatiana had a slight advantage in her cumulative score, heading into the final rotation. You're quite right that Shannon's first vault should have been a 10: my point is that in Europe, the judges weren't going to give her that kind of score. Imagine if the competition had taken place in the US. Also imagine if Shannon had been the last athlete to perform, knowing exactly what she needed to win (a 10 would suffice).

[GymFloozie]

I'm with you on all that. The question is: did Shannon outscore Tatiana by .013 or more on the vault. That's the only question in the whole mess. Because as I remember Tatiana was .012 ahead going to the vault. My uneducated opinion (I'm not a gymnast, just a watcher) is that Shannon outscored Tatiana by MORE than .012 on vault. And you're right - Shannon going first was not a good thing. It was a mess. But still worth debating 17 years later.

[ImmortalSynn]

I'm not sure how fair that is... keep in mind that the 2nd ever USA women's gold AA came in Europe.

[JLFAN2009]

Shannon was, in fact, to win the first AA gold in a fully contested championship in Europe: that was in Birmingham, England, back in 1993. By then, Barcelona (and the close race with Tatiana) was behind her; and Shannon had gained enough stature to receive high scores from the judges. Keep in mind that it was actually teammate Dominique Dawes who led the competition, until messing up her vaults. And Gina Gogean could theoretically have overtaken her for the gold, on her last routine (floor).

[ImmortalSynn]

@JLFAN2009

Yes, I'm aware... but in keeping with the thread's theme, I was refering specifically to the Olympic AA.

[JLFAN2009]

Time had definitely changed, by 2004, when Carly Patterson finally broke through the Olympic AA hex for American women. The Eastern power bloc by then was broken (no more Soviet Union), and the Romanian program was struggling to stay alive after the 1990's collapse. The competitive field was vastly different -- making it easy for Carly to win. Shannon really had it tough, back in Barcelona.

[ImmortalSynn]

Amazing what happens when government can no longer force people into a virtual slavery to an athletic endeavor, ain't it?

[selesfan30]

@JLFAN2009 Umm the 93 Worlds was the worst womens gymnastics field in history. The fact Dawes with her hideous form back then and closer to the gymnast she was in 92 to the gymnast she was from 94-96 nearly won the AA already says enough about the event. Miller was not magically scored differently, she just had no competition. She actually had a huge error on beam and performed nowhere near as well as 92. Had it been the 92 field Miller would have been 8th or 9th with the same performances.

[russianskatingfan]

@JLFAN2009 Gutsu was not overscored on vault. 8 gymnasts scored 9.950 or higher on vault. Shannon was overscored on floor too, as much or more than Gutsu, and Gutsu was also underscored on beam. Appropriate scores would have been:

Vault- Gutsu 9.950, Miller 10

Bars- Gutsu 9.950, Miller 9.925 (judges got this one right)

Beam- Gutsu 9.975, Miller 9.875

Floor- Gutsu 9.9, Miller 9.85

Miller would have been lucky to even medal had she gotten the correct beam and floor scores.

[Timtation69]

@russianskatingfan LOL Miller get's 9.85 on floor while gutsu gets 9.9 in your opinion! Please! Gutsu's first pass was very nearly a fall and her dance lacked sophistication! Gutsu would not have medalled at all had she got the 9.7 which is the most that she deserved on floor! Rankings could've been Miller gold Boguinskaya silver, Milosovici bronze = ) Miller deserved 9.9 on beam but floor she deserved a 9.9 also! She should've had a 10 9.925 9.9 and 9.9

[russianskatingfan]

@Timtation69 Gutsu a 9.7 on floor, hahahah. You are a total moron. If you knew anything about the scoring standards of 92 you would know what a ridiculous score that is. And Miller should have scored below 9.9 on beam.

[Timtation69]

@russianskatingfan Please! had silvia mitoba or onodi had done the same tumbling the same way that gutsu did it they would have struggled to get a n 9.8! Gutsu had a total miss on her floor in the all around in her biggest moment! Not good! I do think lysenko was scored far too harshly, but gutsu was not at her best in barcelona plain and simple! Lucky she was so talented that the judges overlooked her mistakes! If my opinion make me a moron in your eyes, so be it!

[russianskatingfan]

@Timtation69 LOL and you think if Miller were from Bulgaria or Hungary here scores wouldnt have all been way lower automatically.  Again you are a moron.

[Holycani]

@Timtation69 you would bump gutsu for boginskaya who by this time was the most overscored gymnast? I mean bogy's gymnastics were 1980's (and even then not the most difficult). The questionable scoring was due to the fact that the judges didn't know any better way to compensate for difficulty which is only fair. If gymnasts only went for the minimum way of achieving a 10 start value the sport would not have evolved to its level of dynamicisn. Gutsu had way more difficulty than Miller, period.

[Audrey22]

esto es algo que deberia superarse. las competiciones son asi. para mi gutsu es justa vencedora, por un montón de razones pero siempre habrá esta discusión.

[Brendan101Kool]

Україна owns , Gutsu won , americans are still crying about this , wow get over it.

[Pr0m0m]

This was one of the biggest travestys in Gymnastics. The cheating (substituting Gutsu) as well as the robbery of Shannon on the vault was a big time Shame. That Gold was Shannons hands down. It's too bad they couldn't have launched a formal complaint.

[Yankees2446]

Great video!

Shannon should have won this no doubt about it. She was underscored on vault. Of course, technically Gutzu should never have been in the AA in the first place.

[tumblegal123]

I agree Tatiana should not have been in the aa Roza should have.

[russianskatingfan]

I dont agree at all that Roza should have been in. Tatiana was by far the superior gymnast. Roza didnt have a prayer in hell for the AA, she would have been very lucky to eke out a top 10 finish. We put in our best hopeful and removed a no hoper. The reward was a well deserved AA gold medal, good for us.

[WSggs]

Us?

Gutsu is from UKRAINE.

Russia takes no glory in that.

[JLFAN2009]

Tatiana may have been the better gymnast. The question is: what about fairness or feelings? Imagine if a substitution had been made in the Team USA camp -- say, Kim failed to qualify for the AA, but substituted for Kerri.

[wexlerchick]

@JLFAN2009 This isn't about ''fairness'' especially when the situation was out of the hands of the gymnasts. It's not Tatiana's fault, or Galieva's fault. Mnay substitutions have been made in the history of Artistic Gymnastics and for some reason people want to ALWAYS focus on this one. All in All Tatiana is the 1992 Olympic All Around Champion, not Shannon, but The Painted Bird of Odessa.

[wexlerchick]

Also I feel Galieva is sort of like a Dominique Moceanu, in the sense that she has A LOT of excuses as to why she didn't win this or wasn't in that. Whens he complained about the cheering of the American crowd costing her the gold, I think that shows exactly why Belu(?) felt she wasn't ready in 92, just based on experience alone.

[selesfan30]

@JLFAN2009 Bela Karolyi watered down Kerri's floor routine in team optionals to get Kim into the AA. The Unified Team could have easily done the same with Galieva which probably would have been a smarter play as Gutsu barely missed beating her even with the fall. Gutsu actually outscored Zmeskal in the team event with both having a fall, but Galieva was better than Strug and got a higher point total by quite a bit.

[bruinsgirl79]

Shannon should have won the gold!!!! Enough said.

[redsoxgirl0280]

here's what i think:

miller was underscored on bars

both gymnasts were overscored on beam

gutsu was overscored on floor big time

miller was underscored on vault

with my calculations, miller should have won. however, i have never seen milo's beam routine. had she scored a 9.9, milo would have tied for the gold.

[FireDannyAinge]

Milo took a step on her dismount.

[redsoxgirl0280]

On Floor, Gutsu's first pass alone should have cost her at least 2 tenths. Very short. Miller's landings were also not completely secure, but I would give her the edge. More difficulty should not beat execution. Gutsu did not land her first pass cleanly once during the entire Olympics.

[ants2876]

Gutsu's first pass would never have been 2 tenths deduction under 92 scoring standards. It would be a tenth at most, if even that. Miller took a huge step backwards on her 2nd pass which should have been about the same deduction. Millers tumbling was easier then Gutsus, less powerful, and Millers form on the tucked full ins was horrible. If Gutsu was overscored at all on floor Miller was even more. I laughed at her 9.9 with mediocre overall tumbling, and a big mistake herself.

[mrparke007]

The other thing is that Miller had more errors on BB than Gutsu.

[ants2876]

Here what I think:

Both were scored right on bars

Gutsu was underscored on beam was Miller was way overscored on beam

Gutsu and Miller were both overscored on floor, especialy Miller

Miller on vault could have been a 10 and 9.950 for Gutsu was right by 92 standards on vault.

Gutsu should have won by more then she did, and I am not sure Miller even deserved 2nd.

[redsoxgirl0280]

Miller performed three essentially identical routines during the team comp, AA comp, and event finals on bars. she scored a 9.95 in team, 9.925 in aa, and 9.962 in finals. i think she should have received a 9.95 in the AA. Gutsu definitely deserved her bars score.

On beam, both gymnasts had two small balance checks and Gutsu had a step on her dismount. Both were overscored. I think they should have received close to the same score.

[ants2876]

Gutsu did not have 2 balance checks. She had the tiniest waver once, and the smallest shuffle of a foot on dimsount. However it was nowhere near Miller's two breaks. Under 92 scoring Gutsu's would be no deduction while Miller's should be atleast half a tenth. If you insist on half a tenth for Gutsu though Millers two bigger breaks would have to be a tenth each.

As for bars Gutsu scored higher in the team and event finals then the AA also. Bars scoring was lower for everyone in the AA.

[gymnastluvr1xoxo]

Wow this montage is really goo i am going to like TELL EVERYONE about it!! NICE

[Hopeace12]

wat were the AA scoree?

[tumblegal123]

Something like 39.7 to 39.712

[russianskatingfan]

39.737 vs 39.725

[audie83]

This is a beautiful montage of two great champion gymnasts. They were very closely matched and it could have gone either way. I preferred the beauty of Shannon's movements but I also loved Tatiana's daredevil moves-and her form wasn't as dreadful as some.

[tumblegal123]

I also have to agree with you on this one. Shannon's rotines were beautiful and she really desearved to win this competition. I strongly agree that Sgannon's work is absoulutely beautiful. Thank you for your opinion of my video I will be sure to watch yours right now after I am done typing this comment. Once again thank you so mch for your opinio on my video I really apprciate it and I hope that the world sees through the great diffuculty and see the beauty in gymnastics. I love your comments:).

[BKEntertainmentz]

Wow this is great!! I love both of these gymnasts and they were so close at the olympics so it is great to see them compared!!

[kirjbaybay]

wow ive never seen that move that she did around 1:00 done before!! she is soo awesome!!

[Hopeace12]

where do u get these vic clips from?

[tumblegal123]

Well most of them are from different websites about Shannon and Tatiana.

[audie83]

I had not noticed Shannon's little wobbles on beam before. Other videos seem to focus on Tatiana's mistakes-but if one is very honest you could see they both had little errors here, and there. It really was anyone's call, and Shannon did outscore Tatiana's vault-some people seem to think Gutsu outscored Shannon on vault but it was really her cumulative scores on all events that did it. In the days when prelim scores carried over-Shannon would have won and Gutsu may not have even medalled.

[Athlete065]

This was beautiful! I thought Shannon should have one:) But what happens happens.

[emma2710gymnastics]

I first watched this comp when I 1st became interested in gymnastics and before I even new who shannon was, but then and now I still feel that shannon SHOULD have won that competition! great montage!

[FireDannyAinge]

Miller was robbed.

[tumblegal123]

Ya I totally agree she really deserved to win. Her form was much better and she presented better. The only thing that helped Gutsu to win was all of her difficulty.

[audie83]

Sad to say that is very much the case today-beauty of movement, artistry, dance, line and form-in short ARTISTIC gymnastics is not winning. Power tumbling with questionable form is. Even gymnasts with falls are medalling.

[tumblegal123]

Yes I have t agree with you, I feel that the artistry should be better rewarded because it looks so beautful thank you for your oppinion.