It's time to call their hypocracy and violence into account and the fact that they live in the U.S - a free,democratic, nation whom they criticize while supporting this kind of tyranny. Wake up america.
All religion boils down to one question: "what do you think happens when we die?" because you dont like the answer u get from the other person, thats reason enough to dislike someone?and lets be honest, we dont love and fear god (whether it be yahweh, jehovah, or allah) for gods sake.we love and fear him for gain in this life and imsurance to reach heaven in the next.when we think of god, we're thinkin only of ourselves.so does that make hating someone who doesnt pray to ur god justifyable?
Sooo many wrong statements here.i cant correct them all but there was one that really irked me.first off the amount of hate here is disgusting.u people sound like idoits going back and forth about theology--the study of THEORIES, which means there is no right answer because its all based on "educated" guesses
islam is the only religion approve by the god of Pisslam, but put this in your shitty brain, SHIT the only religion that is being approved by god of SHIT. now you may start praying to shit 5 times a day before the god of shit put you in shit hole after your death, wait a minute you are in the shit hole right now ain't you?
THE BIBLE IS MAN MADE..IT WAS COMPILED NOT DURING THE TIME OF JESUS BUT HUNDREDS AND HUNDREDS AND HUNDREDS OF YEARS AFTER JESUS...THE FIRST WRITINGS ARE FROM PAUL..PAUL NEVER MET JESUS..PAUL USED TO KILL THOUSANDS OF CHRISTIANS..PAUL WAS KNOWN AS SAUL OF TARSUS AT THE TIME..PAUL INTRODUCED NEW TEACHINGS THAT MADE MANY CHURCHS FURIOUS..MANY DID NOT TRUST PAUL...PAUL WAS THE FIRST TO INTRODUCE THAT JESUS WAS GODS SON..THE BIBLE IS CORRUPT THERE ARE EVEN THOUSANDS OF CONTRADICTIONS IN THE BIBLE
@nevernohijab Its sad that you think the bible is the word of God or inspired by God when there are tons of errors and contradictions. PEOPLE NEED TO WORSHIP THE CREATOR ONLY NOT HIS CREATION. JESUS WAS A MESSENGER OF GOD AND IS THE MESSIAH...JESUS NEVER SAID WORSHIP ME SO WHY DO YOU WORSHIP JESUS??
@nevernohijab What your worshiping is what the devil wants you to worship. ALL the children of adam and eve SHOULD worship the creator and the creator only..Something called pure monotheism. why are you worshiping a messenger of God? did Jesus ever say worship me in the bible?? NO!! Worship the creator NOT his creation
@855842 Jesus was GOD, GOD gave birth to part of his spirit in the human body because he wanted to know what it feels like for a human. Jesus was like GOD's avatar. If during the pray you want GOD being visualized in your mind you put there face Jesus, that;s it. Hence Jesus was not a messenger but a human and GOD all in one.
@gunzcontrol lmao!! God wanted to know how it feels like for a human??LISTEN buddy God knows all things You christians say the blasphemous things about God..especially thinking Mary give birth to God and Mary popped God out of her pussy..Your bible is so corrupted Exodus 31:17 for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he RESTED, and was REFRESHED .
How can you say that about GOD????
God is 1 HE does not have a son or a daughter or a aunt or a mother nor a cousin
@855842 You stupid muslim don't you fucking realise that you exist just because we let you to. We can erase you from the face of earth in matter of minutes, GOD gave us nuclear weapon, we've got nukes and stuff and everything and you've got nothing! Don't you realise you muslim scum that your people exist solely owing to our christian compassion?! But even our patience isn't infinite, you had better not put us out of it. Wanna see your bloody Mecca being nuked during the Hajj?.
@855842 why the fuck when someone dissagree with muslim, all of a sudden muslim attack christianity? you are alone on your shit hole country. no one want to touch you camel piss drinker
@855842 and I hope you use more of your logic than just except all of bull shit that comes from your parents, clerics, and a millennium old year book written by some illiterate camel piss drinker.
@855842 yeah you may be right, or maybe me, or maybe the other 5 thousand religion that is exist in the world, or even maybe no ones right because god turn out to be the biggest blood thirst bitch ever.
@855842 AND YOU ARE NOT BLASPHEMING ?????!!!YOU FILTHY MOUTHED DEMON INFESTED ..YOU WILL BOW DOWN TO THE LORD OF LORDS EVERYONE WILL WHETHER YOU LIKE IT OR NOT....YOURE RELIGION IS JUST THAT ITS A RELIGION WITHOUT SALVATION .....IT WONT SAVE YOU GO PRAY 100 TIMES A DAY YOU STILL ARE A SINNER YOUR WORKS CANNOT ERASE YOUR SINS .........ONLY THE BLOOD OF JESUS WILL ERASE YOUR SINS PEOPLE LIKE YOU THAT TALK LIKE THAT WILL NEVER UNDERSTAND THE CONCEPT OF GOD
@reylair1 My salvation is worshiping the Creator...Your salvation is worshiping the creation..Worshiping Jesus wont do you any good...Why dont you try worshiping the same God Jesus was worshiping
@855842 you really do not know anything we worship the creator but you just dont understand our view on Jesus you dont get the concept thats all ill try to find a vid for you
@855842 its a misconception that ALL christians worship jesus.in fact, I had been in sunday school, gone to church, but it wasnt until I was 13, that I had never heard of such a thing as jesus being god.not I, nor anyone in my church, nor any of my friends--outside of catholics--believes that jesus was god.we follow his teachings, yes.we believe in the immaculate conception, but we dont believe in that "god head/holy trinity" blasphemy.which is why we argue with other sects continuously
@angelic9889 the Deity of Christ, the first Christians worshiped Jesus its a fact found inthe Bible and secular history, and its what Historical Orthodox Christians have believed for 2000 years, so-called "Christian" cults who reject this are heretical.
@ceeker248 thats completely false.the first christians were jews who did not believe in a godlike christ.they were lead by jesus's brother james.it was james and his follers who wrote the dead sea scrolls--the most accurate account of biblical history because it was written during that time period by jesus's followers.jesus didnt become godlike until many centuries later...
@ceeker248 thats completely false.the first christians were jews who did not believe in a godlike christ.they were lead by jesus's brother james.it was james and his follers who wrote the dead sea scrolls--the most accurate account of biblical history because it was written during that time period by jesus's followers.jesus didnt become godlike until many centuries later...
@ceeker248 thats completely false.the first christians were jews who did not believe in a godlike christ.they were lead by jesus's brother james.it was james and his follers who wrote the dead sea scrolls--the most accurate account of biblical history because it was written during that time period by jesus's followers.jesus didnt become godlike until many centuries later...
@ceeker248 decades at the earliest.the belief was that christ was the messiah, the ultimate prophet.he would usher in a new era of peace and freedom through his teachings.this was understood by the other JEWS at that time.which is why they never claimed him to be a god, nor themselves christians.they called themselves jews.because they folled christ, the judeo-christians were excommunicated from the rest of the jewish community and persecuted by the romans who occupied isreal at that time..
@ceeker248 they were a minority against overwhelming odds.their only hope was to recruit more members.the other jews would never accept them into their group or join the judeo-christian faith.they were forced to get the romans on their side.but as we know, romans at that time were polytheists who only put stock in godlike entities.and so was born a godlike christ and the religion was forever changed.all to please roman ideals so original judeo-christians could practicw their faith freely
@ceeker248 so if u want to know why so many christians commit the ultimate sin of idol worship that is why.because the original judeo-christians rewrote their entire belief for roman support and then catholics and orthodoxes made up that "god head/holy trinity" crap to justify themselves disgracing our lord god.thats all they do.from saints, to jesus, to to different angels.all sounds like zeus and demigods to me.ps: uCAN NOT find any of that holy trinity stuff in any other christian sect.
@ceeker248 the bible, history, books, documentaries.look up "pauline christianity" on wikipedia.its informative but barely makes a dent into the issue.after christ, the different sects of judeo-christianity were run by different apostles.the most highly reguarded among the jewish ppl was the following of james.james, jesus's brother was a radical who apposed the roman occupation of isreal.his following wad strong none the less.
@angelic9889 you said " the original judeo-christians rewrote their entire belief for roman support" so can you list the Bible as one of your sources for this claim if it was "rewrote"..that's a logical contradiction.
@ceeker248 yes.by comparing the pauline bible to the dead sea scrolls and other known beliefs of the original christians, we can see how greatly the bible differs from all other ideals of that time
@ceeker248 the original christians are yhe followers of james.look up the dead sea scrolls for urself.there are many videos here on youtube that can go into more detail than I can
@angelic9889 Based on what..give me one proof you use to substantiate your belief that James had a separate sect from Paul and that sect was the real Christianity. The dead sea scrolls are a library of various book most of which predate Jesus James and Paul. So you based your beliefs and salvation on your-tube videos? You never answered what do you take as your final authority in matters of truth?
@ceeker248 paul however had only a miniscule following in comparison to james.BUT paul had something james did not: A ROMAN CITIZENSHIP.and so, paul, watered down early christian beliefs and created a nonthreatening following which was accepted by the romans.james's radical movement was squashed and james the just, brother.of jesus was stoned to death.paul then stood as the face of christianity.his nonthreatening following was then picked up by romans.so was born modern christianity
@angelic9889 " paul, watered down early christian beliefs and created a nonthreatening following which was accepted by the romans " if this is so why did the Romans kill Paul and Christians up until after the death of Nero?
@ceeker248 paul was executed by nero, a historically psychopathic lunitic.nero burned down his own city and needed a fall guy.he blamed the christians.paul, the face of christianity was then killed.not for his beliefs, but because a crazed neeo needed a fall guy
@angelic9889 Hold so Christians corrupted their beliefs to appease Rome and then Rome turned around and told them to reject these beliefs or die? ...that's what you believe?
@ceeker248 no.the romans had a problem with christianity because they believed christ was a rebel.when james continued a radical movement, the problems contiued.paul, being that he was more tame, was accepted by the romans until nero needed a fall guy for the crime he had committed.roman dislike of christianity never had anything to do with the belief.it was all political
@angelic9889 " no.the romans had a problem with christianity because they believed christ was a rebel" but you just said Christian changed their belief to appease Rome and be more "tame", if Jesus was "changed" to be please Roman why would Roman still take issue with Jesus? If James had a separate sect from Paul why wouldn't Nero have targeted them instead of Paul's sect?
@angelic9889 Why would the Romans want to threaten Christians to recant their beliefs with threats of death if Christianity was corrupted to fit in with Roman paganism...that makes no logical sense. simply saying well Nero was crazy doesn't address why he would target Christians, and if christians were willing to change their religion to fit Roman why wouldn't they just change their religion again to save their lives?
@ceeker248 once nero had claimed christians had started the fire in rome, ppl began to lable them as radicals once again.by that time, christianity had hit mainstream pop culture, it wasnt an underground following anymore and therefore couldnt be changed once again.and like I said, the problems the romans had with christians werent because of their beliefs, it was political.changing the already watered down religion wouldnt accomplish anything
@ceeker248 I never said it was accepted by all at that time.what I meant was that the religion was recognized.they had reached the public eye by that time
@ceeker248 yes jesus was recognized but mostly among the jewish community and he was nowhere near as famous as he was postmortum--the time of james and paul.after his death was when christianity took the spotlight
@angelic9889 The time of James and Paul and the death of Jesus was short period of time, maybe 30 or so before Jerusalem fell, So you believe that Jesus was such a failure that in less then 30 years time someone was able to corrupt His teachings to the point they were erased and replaced with another religion?
@ceeker248 not erased, tainted.the teachings of jesus are basically the same from sect to sect.but the issue of divinity stems only from the pauline beliefs.also, its been noted that many of pauls accounts of history had been distorted.and thirty years can change a lot in those times.back then oral history was the main form of spreading news.all it takes is a short speech and history is forever changed
@angelic9889 ok again Jesus was a failure and Jehovah was a failure also since the whole mission of the Messiah was overturned in less then 30 years by a mere mortal human being Paul? Jehovah didn't know Paul was going to corrupt his religion a head of time..isn't he all knowing? Jehovah couldn't protect his religion? How was it that the teaching of Moses where able to survive thousands of years but Jesus teachers barely made it 30 years?
@ceeker248 the message of jesus is still within the lines of a distorted history.the message survived so therefore it wasnt a failure.and who knows, maybe jehovah wanted paul to taint christianity to test us.would we believe in jesus's teachings because he was divine?or would we believe in the words of a mortal man because they are good?maybe jehovah is testing our judgement.who knows
@angelic9889 So basically maybe maybe and who knows, your "Jehovah" offers no sure guidance, but the Real Jehovah of the Bible said in 1 Corinthians 14:33 He is not the author of confusion so that Jehovah could have failed to protect His message or purposely try to deceive people in the manner you claim about your Jehovah.
@ceeker248 if that is truth for u, so be it.hold onto the bible, thats fine.i wont.its too contradictory for my taste.its a great guideline, dont get me wrong, but it isnt the only source for religious enlightenment in my eyes.believe as u wish.its not my place to judge u. :)
@ceeker248 in ur opinion.i gave u historical fact.pauline chritianity differs from other christian movements, only pauline christianity mentions a divine christ, and pauline christianity was the basis for the catholic/orthodox church.how that isnt proof is beyond me.if u want to dig deeper, be my guest.ive enjoyed this convo, but its getting pretty late in the day.
@angelic9889 no ma'ma, you made historical claims and when you were asked to provide reference even just one you couldn't. You just made another unfounded claim "only pauline christianity mentions a divine Christ" the burden of proof is on the claimant..
@angelic9889 you have said nothing that makes logical sense, you claim the real Christian wrote the dead sea scroll and then claim you don;t know if the 10 commandments are from God..the 10 commandments are in the dead seas scrolls in fact the whole OT is in it.
@ceeker248 I told u, u can look up pauline christianity for urself and look into the dead sea scrolls for urself.im in no position to make truths for u as u r in no position to make truths for me.i was simply telling u what I believed and why.u want to investigate further, be my guest.but dont try to turn this into a phylosophical debate.ans just because the 10commandments are in the scrolls that doesnt make them directly from god.its possible that moses authored them himself.but...
@angelic9889 I have "looked it up", again you keep referencing the dead sea scrolls have you ever read them? Do you know what they contain? Do you know what the beliefs of the people who wrote them where? They contain the whole OT except for the book of ester, the OT predicted a divine Messiah, ,, the dead sea scrolls where hidden by Gnostic, Gnostic s believe Jesus was divine,
@ceeker248 the scrolls never mention jesus or the followers of jesus.the belief that gnostics hid them away is only speculation.the fact that jesus--a man thought to be divine--is never mentioned could be evidence to support the fact that he wasnt divine.why else wouldnt the son of god, the third part of a "holy trinity" not even be mentioned?wouldnt someone as important as that get atleast a footnote?
@angelic9889 if " the scrolls never mention jesus or the followers of jesus.the belief " then why did you tell me earlier " the original christians are yhe followers of james.look up the dead sea scrolls for urself. "? If the scrolls don;t contain anything about Jesus or his followers what in the scrolls would tell me anything about James? Again another illogical statement from you miss.
@ceeker248 I said the scrolls were written by james following because thats what I believe.at the time of early christianity there were two major christian groups, james' and paul's.the lack of writings about a divine christ and the fact that the scrolls needed to be hidden away supports that james sect was the owner of the scroll.
@angelic9889 If Jesus is never mentioned in the scrolls how can you come to ANY conclusion about Jesus based on the scrolls? Jesus is mentioned in the Bible 1st century document, Jesus is mentioned by Pagan Roman historians who said his followers worshiped him as a God, Jesus is mentioned by the Gnostics..so we should just ignore all that?
@ceeker248 I base my opinion of early christianity on the scrolls.i dont base my conclusions of jesus on what is written in the scrolls.i base my opinions of him on faith and my own truths.which is exactly what ur doing.there is no physical proof, only speculation that this MAN even exisited, yet through ur interpretations--ur truths--of things and ur faith u concluded that not only was he real, he is also mighty GOD.my faith, my truths tell me different
@angelic9889 what scrolls? What about these scroll? please do not tell me what I do or don't do, I believe the historical record Jesus existed and claimed to be equal in nature to his father God he either lied or told the truth.
@ceeker248 if thats what u believe, ur free to do so.but there is no tangible proof to the matter is what im saying.but yet u believe.its ur truths, ur faith that tells u so.which is ok.my truths, my faith tells me differently.i do not shun you for what u believe, please have the same respect for me
@angelic9889 is the Christian Bible a Historical document? Yes or No, Is the Didache a historical document? Yes or No? are the writings of the church fathers historical documents, Yes or no? Are the histories of Roman historians historical documents? Yes or no?
@angelic9889 3. the vast majority of the contents of the scrolls predate Jesus, the scrolls do contain the book of Isaiah which predicts the Messiah is God with Us, God almighty, and the Lord would come to His temple..do you reject this also?
@ceeker248 first off, the messiah, as predicted in isaiah, is NOT GOD REINCARNATE.according to all jewish tradition, old and new, the messiah is the prophet of prophets, a man born of human flesh and ordained by GOD to do his bidding.he is a messenger, not the message.and u can ask any jewish person about that.its all over the torah
@angelic9889 So basically you have taken the scripture and tossed it behind you back and you want to justify it by references what the Jews say as if that's on the same level as God's words?
@ceeker248 the bible was manmade.it didnt descend to earth on the backs of angels.and what is a christian?A JEW WHO BELIEVES CHRIST TO BE THE MESSIAH.thats why all early christians were jewish, includin jesus himself.thats why the entire bible is based on the torah.thats why jesus was killed during passover.WE ARE JEWS.its time we stop separating ourselves and understand that
@ceeker248 no the bible is not a historical document because its faith based for one.secondly its accounts of history are inaccurate nd most of the dates is suggests are incorrect.instead of getting defensive, understand my statement.there is no tangible proof of jesus' exisitence, but yet u believe.ur truths, ur faith tells u so.i respect that and ask u to give me the same respect.u can go on debating if u wish.cite an article or research theology if u wish but fact is, our faith is our proof.
@angelic9889 This is not a debate, you would actually have to give complete answers to my questions. There is no logical way to debate a person who reinvents definitions of terms and ideas at whim. Someone who's defense of baseless claims is more baseless claims. You post is complete circular logic, even if we took the Bible off the table you never addressed the Didache, the Church Fathers, or Roman historians. honestly I think me and you even have different definitions of faith.
@ceeker248 I didnt address them because it needs not be addressed.putting the works of religious types aside, the only source worth mentioning are ancient historians of whom never mention jesus the nazarine specifically and therefore arent worth addressing either.if u can prove they do mention him specifically--not throw around cryptic quotes for ur own interpretation--which u can not, I applaud u.but saddly still, ur missing the bigger picture
@angelic9889 help understand your logic please...lets make it simple.. the Dedache a church manual produced between 60AD or as late as 100AD, are you claiming it was writing by imaginary people for a imaginary first century church?
@ceeker248 yes im aware of what it is but logic tells us when looking for accurate historical account u disclude religious sources being that it falls under the category of mythology.and though all myths have a bit of truth behind them, it doesnt hold up as historic evidence.i never said they were imaginary.i said it wasnt worth addressing for the reasons i've just specified
@angelic9889 OK, I still do not logically understand your thinking..back to the Dedache.. it's a manual for Christians..Christian you admit existed? So you are saying within 27 to 67(the time between the crucifixion and the writing of the Dadache) years a compete mythology appeared in Juda and the Roman empire that people where ready to die for, when you would have had plenty of people who would have been alive when this "myth" claimed Jesus existed to tell everyone it was just a myth?
@ceeker248 again, religious documentation does not hold up as historical evidence.but for fun, i'll play along.according to ur statement, yes, that proves the existence of christians, but it does not directly prove the existence of christ.it proves a faith based group died for what they believed in, not that what they believed in was actually real.
@angelic9889 according to my statement? Again was it written by real people or imaginary people..can you be logically consistent.. if it was written by real people it has nothing to do with me i didn't live 2000 years ago. again are you saying a myth spring up in Juda and the Roman empire in 27 to 67 years even with people still alive who would have been eyewitnesses to when and where the "myth" took place?
@ceeker248 ur getting defensive again."according to u" in the sense of im directly referencing what u've just said when I make this statement.and to let u know, I personally believe in the decade.however, it is not historical evidence to directly support jesus' existence.it proves his followers were persecuted because of their faith n leaves the reader to make their own conclusions about weather or not the religion is based on fact.
@angelic9889 Again so you are saying you believe a myth developed in 27 to 67 years that spread all over the Roman empire when their where people still alive from 27 to 67 years previous who could have just told everyone it never happened?
@angelic9889 You are so llogically inconsistent its making my head spin. So the dedache is not a historical evidence that the people who wrote and used it existed? So you are saying a myth developed in 27 to 67 years that spread all over the Roman empire when their where people still alive from 27 to 67 years previous who could have just told everyone it never happened?
@ceeker248 no im very consistent.if u would read the words im typing rather than the ones u metaphorically put in my mouth, u would understand my logic.since ur having trouble understanding me, why dont u answer one of my questions for once?you've left almost all of them unanswered.i have but one request: show me any tangible proof of jesus' existence only using true historical evidence such as grave markings, a biography written by true historians, anything but religious sources
@angelic9889 "a biography written by true historians, anything but religious sources " so you think there where secular historians with no religion beliefs in the ancient world?
@angelic9889 People during the first century testified to Jesus existing in written form this appeared in a document( a fixed summery of basic Christ beliefs about Jesus) written in 33 AD and was being widely memorized and recited by all Christians by 35AD..myths develop over centuries not months, years or decades.
@ceeker248 and people have also testified to being visited by aliens.that leaves too much room for speculation my friend.that would be an F on a history midterm.try again
@angelic9889 you are inconsistent logically because you want post modern secular proofs from the ancient world in order to prove Christ existed when the two people you said existed in history don't have any such proofs to prove their existence..in other words you are asking for a proof that could never possibly exist , so you should logically not believe anything about the ancient world.
@ceeker248 based on ur logic ancient historians are not viable sources.but based on the standards of tge historical community (people with doctorites in the field) they are viable but the bible and religious texts are not.u wanted to play the history game, well those are the rules as set up by the historic society.now, If ur done id like to remind u that u still havent provided historical evidence.
@angelic9889 Dude do you think about what you say before you say it? If anyone who holds to religion can not be a historical source according to you, then who were these secular post modern "ancient historians" ? , know such people existed in the ancient world...know such historians existed until the enlightenment around 1500-1600 AD
@ceeker248 i'll give u time to research the topic.the celtics are playing the maverics tonight and im missing the first quarter.take as much time as u need.good night my friend
@angelic9889 Another question if the bible can not be a source to attest to the real life historical existence of Jesus, could you name me a ancient person you believe really existed(Like Cleopatra, One of the Caesars etc) and the source you hold as a proof they existed?
@ceeker248 I will not just pick one historical figure, I will pick two--the two you've just mentioned.their existence is proven by ancient monuments and historians of whom write without occult undertones.like I said, out of the sources you've mentioned, ancient historians are the only viable ones.however, the historians never mention jesus specifically and therefore ur case stands unproven
@angelic9889 Egyptian and and Roman rulers where deities...they were gods in their cultural religions... you have already said anything that comes from religion can not be a historical fact. And you said " historians of whom write without occult undertones " like whom?
@ceeker248 the anicient leaders were gods in their own minds.they werent worshipped by the people.it doesnt go zeus god of thunder, ares god of war, ceasar, god of donkeys.it was more of an implementation of power rather than an actual claim to the right of a god.and the historians who documented their lives never worshipped them.
@angelic9889 " historians who documented their lives never worshipped them. " what historians documented their lives I have asked this like three time now
@ceeker248 no our definitions of faith are the same.its what we put our faith in that differs.i put faith in GOD, in good teachings, in intangible things that can never be proven to be true.i accept there is not proof to anything I put faith in--jesus, JEHOVAH, moses--but yet I believe.i dont need to misinterpret books or research theology to legitimize my beliefs.it is true because I believe I believe it to be.tell me, why did u choose to be a christian?
@ceeker248 never said the bible cant be trusted.i said its manmade and therefore imperfect.its a good guideline but its not the only source for religious enlightenment.
@angelic9889 There where only two groups that believed Jesus was Messiah in Judah the Christians and Gnostics both held him to be divine in some sense, there is no historical record on any third group that believed in a non-divine Jesus in 1st century Palestine...that's just the Facts..you can believe in any tin foil hat conspiracy theory you like but its fiction.
@ceeker248 none of that matters.divine or not, the msg is good and it can help lead to spiritual enlightenment.u focus to much on divinity and fear mongering.ur missing the bigger picture.in anyhow I enjoyed this but have to get going.have a good day
@angelic9889 most scholars hold to the Qumran-Essene theory for the origin of the dead sea scrolls the Essene and other such sects were Gnostic..Gnostic writing after Jesus all say Jesus was divine in fact they went further then Christians and claimed Jesus was not really a physical human but a spirit who just appeared human, you need to educate yourself beyond you tube video and conspiracy theory books.
@angelic9889 weather you judge me or not makes no difference to me personally, but your world view is clearly full of logical contradictions its basically a conspiracy theory, you make claims that are based on nothing other then logical leaps and speculation with no facts to back them up.
@angelic9889 Christianity hit mainstream during the time of Nero? Can you proved a historical reference for that claim, What you said has no historical proof to back it up, Nero become king in 58AD and died in 68AD there is nothing to even hint that Christianity because accepted in the Rome empire during this time, the exact opposite took place Christians were being hunted, imprisoned and killed during this time all the way up to the third century.
@ceeker248 ...which GREATLY differs from the original ideals.the divinity of christ being he biggest of all differences.u dont find mention of that in any other sect but pauline.it was paul's sect that gave life to orthodox faiths and catholocism.and thats why those are the only groups who believe in a divine christ
@ceeker248 I reject pauline ideals.i reject believing anyone besides almight jehovah is god.i reject someone telling me what is and isnt christianity.the bible is not god and neither was jesus
@ceeker248 im a judeo-christian and universalist.i dont hold one book or one ideal as truth.its kind of like writing a history paper.u dont use only one source to base ur topic, u need to sift through all available information to find ur own truths.that is real understanding, understanding what is true TO YOU
@angelic9889 So you keep the Law? " understanding what is true TO YOU " so you take yourself as the final authority and there is no Divine revelation or World of God that reveals ultimate truth? And information you sift through is you tube videos Wikipedia and documentations ?
@ceeker248 I keep my own law just as u should keep ur own law.a relationship with god is a personal, life long thing that no book, no man--be he reverend, pastor or priest--should come between.i dont search on the internet for religious truth, I search EVERYWHERE--books, magazine articles, my personal life--because almighty jehovah is everywhere.he's not limited on one book or one idea of one man
@ceeker248 im not sure and I will never be sure if the 10 commandments came directly from god himself.but im sure that there something to be learned from them and thats why I hold them as part of a greater truth.thats the point, it doesnt matter if words were spawned from god himself of breathed by simple men, as long as the msg is good, it can lead u to religious understanding
@ceeker248 so you are guilty of telling lies well I am to, people who tell lies are liars so we are liars. You are right Yeweh is Holy. Have you ever lusted for another person, you know Jesus said to look on another with lust is to commit adultery in the heart and adultery is one of the 10 commandments..so have you ever done this?
@angelic9889 ok so you have confessed to being a liar and now a adulterer, So if Yeweh judges you after you die based on his commandments you will be guilty of breaking his commands..so should he give you justice at that point?
@ceeker248 who are we to say how we or others will be judged.thats up to jehovah.i dont have the power to say what will happen to me and neither does anyone else.all we can do as mortals is live as good of a life as we can and give praise to jehovah.we do not have athority to judge our sins or the sins of others.jesus taught us that
@angelic9889 Yeweh has the right to say how He will judge and He has informed us He said in Romans 6:23 that the wages of Sin is death.. you have confessed to being a lying adulterer so you deserve death, what plan of salvation does your religion offer?
@ceeker248 love, prayer and repentance is the main focus.as ive said before, the relationship between someone and god is person and emotional and life long.no hail mary's, no confessionals, no book will allow u to walk with him properly.what god means to u is one thing.what god is for me is another.the only person who knows right is jehovah himself.
@angelic9889 ok i get that again you are a self admitted Sinner a Liar and Adulterer someone who has rebelled against His commandments..so that means you are liable to receive Yewehs Justice ..yes or no?
@ceeker248 arent we all subject to his will?and those are the sins YOUVE accused me of.i admit, in my lifetime, ive told lies, as has everyone else.ive lusted, wether u define that as adultery or not is ur opinion based on YOUR bible interpretation not jehovahs.by ur standards, if u were god which u are not, id be in the need of "justice" old testament style.lol but I think im doing just fine thanks.whatever jehovah has in store for me, let it come.im sure I deserved whatever HE wills.not YOU
@855842 fact is, just as muslims are often stereotyped by christians, im finding out more and more that christians are being stereotyped by muslims.maybe instead of wasting energy fighting amoungst each other, we can utilize that energy and educate each other?alls im sayin is its almost 2012, this whole muslim vs christian/jew thing is centuries played out.after 2 gulf wars, im tired.arent u?
Maybe your right on that but in the UK we have a Muslim called Anjem Choudry who says we as Muslims will dominate the world and you will all live under sharia law and watch the video called Islamic awakening conference ..this is not the media
There are many Muslim countries where you could freely change your religion and no one would even care! The media happens to pick up on only on the horrible stories about Islam, in order to perpetuate fear and hatred. The US government fails to look after its own people (eg. New Orleans). So in order for the people not to turn around and ask them what the fuck is going on, they look for unity by creating a common enemy. Even so...i hope the father and daughter are living happily now =)
Ovomit couldn't care less, he's a scuzlim as well. Islam is evil, Muhammad and Allah are just another name for Satan! Muhammad thought he himself was demos possessed! He "re-wrote" Allah's words and commands-and married a 6 year old girl and consummated their marriage when she was 9! Muhammad is a pervert Islam is a perversion
1John 2;18 Young children,it is the last hour, and just .as you have heart that antichrist is coming ,evennow there have come to have many antichrist;from whichfact we gain the knoledge that itis the last hour.1John 2;22 who is the liar if it is not the one that denies that Jesus is the christ .or ( Gods chosen one)this is the antichrist. islam denies that God has send his son Jesus to earth to atone for for mankind by means of his shed blood on the cross ,where does that place ,islam,//??
Though i do not like Bush, but he did step in when an Afghan converted to Christianity was to be sentenced to death in Afghanistan. His life was saved. But yet Obama has not stepped in once.
obama is a muslim for sure// there a man in a pakistan jail .because he became a christian. they whant to kill him for that , he wrote to obama to intervene on his behalf.. but obama has hot responded in away yet .Jesus said they percecuted me and they will persecute you also john15;20 those percecuting christians are in reality doing satans work.koran8;57 ishall terrorrize the infidell.so wound their bodies and incapacitate them because because they oppose alla and his apostle ,go figure./
Documented early Christian creed widely used as early as 35 A.D
watch?v=LHP3tL_C8GE&feature=channel_video_title
ceeker248 2 weeks ago
I will not answer any further questions until u answer at least one
angelic9889 2 weeks ago
@angelic9889 ok which one?
ceeker248 2 weeks ago
that all lies
yasmincoolnes 1 month ago
It makes me sick that this was on the news.
whsjello 1 month ago
It's time to call their hypocracy and violence into account and the fact that they live in the U.S - a free,democratic, nation whom they criticize while supporting this kind of tyranny. Wake up america.
TheSololobo 1 month ago
All religion boils down to one question: "what do you think happens when we die?" because you dont like the answer u get from the other person, thats reason enough to dislike someone?and lets be honest, we dont love and fear god (whether it be yahweh, jehovah, or allah) for gods sake.we love and fear him for gain in this life and imsurance to reach heaven in the next.when we think of god, we're thinkin only of ourselves.so does that make hating someone who doesnt pray to ur god justifyable?
angelic9889 1 month ago
Sooo many wrong statements here.i cant correct them all but there was one that really irked me.first off the amount of hate here is disgusting.u people sound like idoits going back and forth about theology--the study of THEORIES, which means there is no right answer because its all based on "educated" guesses
angelic9889 1 month ago
islam is the only religion approve by the god of Pisslam, but put this in your shitty brain, SHIT the only religion that is being approved by god of SHIT. now you may start praying to shit 5 times a day before the god of shit put you in shit hole after your death, wait a minute you are in the shit hole right now ain't you?
456daking 2 months ago
The islam is the religion Satan like more.....
icarosilva16 3 months ago
What about the thousands of Christians who convert to Islam in eygpt ? Why the church kills them ?
ayamen1 3 months ago
She is Mad!!! How you can do that? To convert to Christianity? You not normal! Islam is the right religion.Come and return to Islam! Allah call you.
azraomeragic 4 months ago
It's difficult for Coptic Christians to get VISAs to get out before they're all killed. Pray for them.
krauthead4 6 months ago
THE BIBLE IS MAN MADE..IT WAS COMPILED NOT DURING THE TIME OF JESUS BUT HUNDREDS AND HUNDREDS AND HUNDREDS OF YEARS AFTER JESUS...THE FIRST WRITINGS ARE FROM PAUL..PAUL NEVER MET JESUS..PAUL USED TO KILL THOUSANDS OF CHRISTIANS..PAUL WAS KNOWN AS SAUL OF TARSUS AT THE TIME..PAUL INTRODUCED NEW TEACHINGS THAT MADE MANY CHURCHS FURIOUS..MANY DID NOT TRUST PAUL...PAUL WAS THE FIRST TO INTRODUCE THAT JESUS WAS GODS SON..THE BIBLE IS CORRUPT THERE ARE EVEN THOUSANDS OF CONTRADICTIONS IN THE BIBLE
855842 7 months ago
@855842 know what?
Leave the Bible and its interpretation to the Lord's people and stick with your kuran and your profet, if you will.
nevernohijab 5 months ago in playlist Freedom to an End
@nevernohijab Its sad that you think the bible is the word of God or inspired by God when there are tons of errors and contradictions. PEOPLE NEED TO WORSHIP THE CREATOR ONLY NOT HIS CREATION. JESUS WAS A MESSENGER OF GOD AND IS THE MESSIAH...JESUS NEVER SAID WORSHIP ME SO WHY DO YOU WORSHIP JESUS??
855842 5 months ago
@855842 I am worshipping God in all His aspects.
And please note: what I believe is none of your business.
nevernohijab 5 months ago
@nevernohijab What your worshiping is what the devil wants you to worship. ALL the children of adam and eve SHOULD worship the creator and the creator only..Something called pure monotheism. why are you worshiping a messenger of God? did Jesus ever say worship me in the bible?? NO!! Worship the creator NOT his creation
855842 5 months ago
@855842
I AM worshipping the creator.
But my Creator is not a narrow minded bigot, my friend.
I am aware of the problem with Jesus, who is in the center of Christian worship.
I think these discussions are futile, because they deal with dogma.
In the end, what is important who you were as a human being and by what guidelines you acted and interacted - by love or by ego?
I believe much of the religious zest is pure ego and thoroughly uninspired.
nevernohijab 5 months ago
@855842 Jesus was GOD, GOD gave birth to part of his spirit in the human body because he wanted to know what it feels like for a human. Jesus was like GOD's avatar. If during the pray you want GOD being visualized in your mind you put there face Jesus, that;s it. Hence Jesus was not a messenger but a human and GOD all in one.
gunzcontrol 4 months ago
@gunzcontrol lmao!! God wanted to know how it feels like for a human??LISTEN buddy God knows all things You christians say the blasphemous things about God..especially thinking Mary give birth to God and Mary popped God out of her pussy..Your bible is so corrupted Exodus 31:17 for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he RESTED, and was REFRESHED .
How can you say that about GOD????
God is 1 HE does not have a son or a daughter or a aunt or a mother nor a cousin
855842 4 months ago
@855842 You stupid muslim don't you fucking realise that you exist just because we let you to. We can erase you from the face of earth in matter of minutes, GOD gave us nuclear weapon, we've got nukes and stuff and everything and you've got nothing! Don't you realise you muslim scum that your people exist solely owing to our christian compassion?! But even our patience isn't infinite, you had better not put us out of it. Wanna see your bloody Mecca being nuked during the Hajj?.
gunzcontrol 4 months ago
@855842 why the fuck when someone dissagree with muslim, all of a sudden muslim attack christianity? you are alone on your shit hole country. no one want to touch you camel piss drinker
456daking 2 months ago
@456daking i hope you will see the light..God bless
855842 2 months ago
@855842 and I hope you use more of your logic than just except all of bull shit that comes from your parents, clerics, and a millennium old year book written by some illiterate camel piss drinker.
456daking 2 months ago
@456daking we'll find out who is right on judgement day...God bless
855842 2 months ago
@855842 yeah you may be right, or maybe me, or maybe the other 5 thousand religion that is exist in the world, or even maybe no ones right because god turn out to be the biggest blood thirst bitch ever.
456daking 2 months ago
@456daking
Only religion approved by God is Islam
Pure Monotheism
No one has the right to be worshiped expect The Creator of the universe
Enjoy this life while it last atheist
855842 2 months ago
@855842 AND YOU ARE NOT BLASPHEMING ?????!!!YOU FILTHY MOUTHED DEMON INFESTED ..YOU WILL BOW DOWN TO THE LORD OF LORDS EVERYONE WILL WHETHER YOU LIKE IT OR NOT....YOURE RELIGION IS JUST THAT ITS A RELIGION WITHOUT SALVATION .....IT WONT SAVE YOU GO PRAY 100 TIMES A DAY YOU STILL ARE A SINNER YOUR WORKS CANNOT ERASE YOUR SINS .........ONLY THE BLOOD OF JESUS WILL ERASE YOUR SINS PEOPLE LIKE YOU THAT TALK LIKE THAT WILL NEVER UNDERSTAND THE CONCEPT OF GOD
reylair1 1 month ago
@reylair1 My salvation is worshiping the Creator...Your salvation is worshiping the creation..Worshiping Jesus wont do you any good...Why dont you try worshiping the same God Jesus was worshiping
855842 1 month ago
@855842 you really do not know anything we worship the creator but you just dont understand our view on Jesus you dont get the concept thats all ill try to find a vid for you
reylair1 1 month ago
@gunzcontrol good answer:)
reylair1 1 month ago
@855842 its a misconception that ALL christians worship jesus.in fact, I had been in sunday school, gone to church, but it wasnt until I was 13, that I had never heard of such a thing as jesus being god.not I, nor anyone in my church, nor any of my friends--outside of catholics--believes that jesus was god.we follow his teachings, yes.we believe in the immaculate conception, but we dont believe in that "god head/holy trinity" blasphemy.which is why we argue with other sects continuously
angelic9889 1 month ago
@angelic9889 the Deity of Christ, the first Christians worshiped Jesus its a fact found inthe Bible and secular history, and its what Historical Orthodox Christians have believed for 2000 years, so-called "Christian" cults who reject this are heretical.
ceeker248 1 month ago
@ceeker248 thats completely false.the first christians were jews who did not believe in a godlike christ.they were lead by jesus's brother james.it was james and his follers who wrote the dead sea scrolls--the most accurate account of biblical history because it was written during that time period by jesus's followers.jesus didnt become godlike until many centuries later...
angelic9889 1 month ago
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@ceeker248 thats completely false.the first christians were jews who did not believe in a godlike christ.they were lead by jesus's brother james.it was james and his follers who wrote the dead sea scrolls--the most accurate account of biblical history because it was written during that time period by jesus's followers.jesus didnt become godlike until many centuries later...
angelic9889 1 month ago
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@ceeker248 thats completely false.the first christians were jews who did not believe in a godlike christ.they were lead by jesus's brother james.it was james and his follers who wrote the dead sea scrolls--the most accurate account of biblical history because it was written during that time period by jesus's followers.jesus didnt become godlike until many centuries later...
angelic9889 1 month ago
@ceeker248 decades at the earliest.the belief was that christ was the messiah, the ultimate prophet.he would usher in a new era of peace and freedom through his teachings.this was understood by the other JEWS at that time.which is why they never claimed him to be a god, nor themselves christians.they called themselves jews.because they folled christ, the judeo-christians were excommunicated from the rest of the jewish community and persecuted by the romans who occupied isreal at that time..
angelic9889 1 month ago
@ceeker248 they were a minority against overwhelming odds.their only hope was to recruit more members.the other jews would never accept them into their group or join the judeo-christian faith.they were forced to get the romans on their side.but as we know, romans at that time were polytheists who only put stock in godlike entities.and so was born a godlike christ and the religion was forever changed.all to please roman ideals so original judeo-christians could practicw their faith freely
angelic9889 1 month ago
@ceeker248 so if u want to know why so many christians commit the ultimate sin of idol worship that is why.because the original judeo-christians rewrote their entire belief for roman support and then catholics and orthodoxes made up that "god head/holy trinity" crap to justify themselves disgracing our lord god.thats all they do.from saints, to jesus, to to different angels.all sounds like zeus and demigods to me.ps: uCAN NOT find any of that holy trinity stuff in any other christian sect.
angelic9889 1 month ago
@angelic9889 ok, and you based these claims upon what?
ceeker248 1 month ago
@ceeker248 the bible, history, books, documentaries.look up "pauline christianity" on wikipedia.its informative but barely makes a dent into the issue.after christ, the different sects of judeo-christianity were run by different apostles.the most highly reguarded among the jewish ppl was the following of james.james, jesus's brother was a radical who apposed the roman occupation of isreal.his following wad strong none the less.
angelic9889 1 month ago
@angelic9889 you said " the original judeo-christians rewrote their entire belief for roman support" so can you list the Bible as one of your sources for this claim if it was "rewrote"..that's a logical contradiction.
ceeker248 1 month ago
@ceeker248 yes.by comparing the pauline bible to the dead sea scrolls and other known beliefs of the original christians, we can see how greatly the bible differs from all other ideals of that time
angelic9889 1 month ago
@angelic9889 And who are the "original Christians" ? What in the Dead sea scolls are you referencing?
ceeker248 1 month ago
@ceeker248 the original christians are yhe followers of james.look up the dead sea scrolls for urself.there are many videos here on youtube that can go into more detail than I can
angelic9889 1 month ago
@angelic9889 Based on what..give me one proof you use to substantiate your belief that James had a separate sect from Paul and that sect was the real Christianity. The dead sea scrolls are a library of various book most of which predate Jesus James and Paul. So you based your beliefs and salvation on your-tube videos? You never answered what do you take as your final authority in matters of truth?
ceeker248 1 month ago
@angelic9889 What do you take as your final authority of truth?
ceeker248 1 month ago
@ceeker248 paul however had only a miniscule following in comparison to james.BUT paul had something james did not: A ROMAN CITIZENSHIP.and so, paul, watered down early christian beliefs and created a nonthreatening following which was accepted by the romans.james's radical movement was squashed and james the just, brother.of jesus was stoned to death.paul then stood as the face of christianity.his nonthreatening following was then picked up by romans.so was born modern christianity
angelic9889 1 month ago
@angelic9889 " paul, watered down early christian beliefs and created a nonthreatening following which was accepted by the romans " if this is so why did the Romans kill Paul and Christians up until after the death of Nero?
ceeker248 1 month ago
@ceeker248 paul was executed by nero, a historically psychopathic lunitic.nero burned down his own city and needed a fall guy.he blamed the christians.paul, the face of christianity was then killed.not for his beliefs, but because a crazed neeo needed a fall guy
angelic9889 1 month ago
@angelic9889 Hold so Christians corrupted their beliefs to appease Rome and then Rome turned around and told them to reject these beliefs or die? ...that's what you believe?
ceeker248 1 month ago
@ceeker248 no.the romans had a problem with christianity because they believed christ was a rebel.when james continued a radical movement, the problems contiued.paul, being that he was more tame, was accepted by the romans until nero needed a fall guy for the crime he had committed.roman dislike of christianity never had anything to do with the belief.it was all political
angelic9889 1 month ago
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@angelic9889 " no.the romans had a problem with christianity because they believed christ was a rebel" but you just said Christian changed their belief to appease Rome and be more "tame", if Jesus was "changed" to be please Roman why would Roman still take issue with Jesus? If James had a separate sect from Paul why wouldn't Nero have targeted them instead of Paul's sect?
ceeker248 1 month ago
@angelic9889 Why would the Romans want to threaten Christians to recant their beliefs with threats of death if Christianity was corrupted to fit in with Roman paganism...that makes no logical sense. simply saying well Nero was crazy doesn't address why he would target Christians, and if christians were willing to change their religion to fit Roman why wouldn't they just change their religion again to save their lives?
ceeker248 1 month ago
@ceeker248 once nero had claimed christians had started the fire in rome, ppl began to lable them as radicals once again.by that time, christianity had hit mainstream pop culture, it wasnt an underground following anymore and therefore couldnt be changed once again.and like I said, the problems the romans had with christians werent because of their beliefs, it was political.changing the already watered down religion wouldnt accomplish anything
angelic9889 1 month ago
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ceeker248 1 month ago
@ceeker248 I never said it was accepted by all at that time.what I meant was that the religion was recognized.they had reached the public eye by that time
angelic9889 1 month ago
@angelic9889 wasn't the Life and teachings of Jesus public during his life time? And you never answered is you accept the 10 commandments?
ceeker248 1 month ago
@ceeker248 yes jesus was recognized but mostly among the jewish community and he was nowhere near as famous as he was postmortum--the time of james and paul.after his death was when christianity took the spotlight
angelic9889 1 month ago
@angelic9889 The time of James and Paul and the death of Jesus was short period of time, maybe 30 or so before Jerusalem fell, So you believe that Jesus was such a failure that in less then 30 years time someone was able to corrupt His teachings to the point they were erased and replaced with another religion?
ceeker248 1 month ago
@ceeker248 not erased, tainted.the teachings of jesus are basically the same from sect to sect.but the issue of divinity stems only from the pauline beliefs.also, its been noted that many of pauls accounts of history had been distorted.and thirty years can change a lot in those times.back then oral history was the main form of spreading news.all it takes is a short speech and history is forever changed
angelic9889 1 month ago
@angelic9889 ok again Jesus was a failure and Jehovah was a failure also since the whole mission of the Messiah was overturned in less then 30 years by a mere mortal human being Paul? Jehovah didn't know Paul was going to corrupt his religion a head of time..isn't he all knowing? Jehovah couldn't protect his religion? How was it that the teaching of Moses where able to survive thousands of years but Jesus teachers barely made it 30 years?
ceeker248 1 month ago
@ceeker248 the message of jesus is still within the lines of a distorted history.the message survived so therefore it wasnt a failure.and who knows, maybe jehovah wanted paul to taint christianity to test us.would we believe in jesus's teachings because he was divine?or would we believe in the words of a mortal man because they are good?maybe jehovah is testing our judgement.who knows
angelic9889 1 month ago
@angelic9889 So basically maybe maybe and who knows, your "Jehovah" offers no sure guidance, but the Real Jehovah of the Bible said in 1 Corinthians 14:33 He is not the author of confusion so that Jehovah could have failed to protect His message or purposely try to deceive people in the manner you claim about your Jehovah.
ceeker248 1 month ago
@ceeker248 if that is truth for u, so be it.hold onto the bible, thats fine.i wont.its too contradictory for my taste.its a great guideline, dont get me wrong, but it isnt the only source for religious enlightenment in my eyes.believe as u wish.its not my place to judge u. :)
angelic9889 1 month ago
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ceeker248 1 month ago
@ceeker248 in ur opinion.i gave u historical fact.pauline chritianity differs from other christian movements, only pauline christianity mentions a divine christ, and pauline christianity was the basis for the catholic/orthodox church.how that isnt proof is beyond me.if u want to dig deeper, be my guest.ive enjoyed this convo, but its getting pretty late in the day.
angelic9889 1 month ago
@angelic9889 no ma'ma, you made historical claims and when you were asked to provide reference even just one you couldn't. You just made another unfounded claim "only pauline christianity mentions a divine Christ" the burden of proof is on the claimant..
ceeker248 1 month ago
@angelic9889 you have said nothing that makes logical sense, you claim the real Christian wrote the dead sea scroll and then claim you don;t know if the 10 commandments are from God..the 10 commandments are in the dead seas scrolls in fact the whole OT is in it.
ceeker248 1 month ago
@ceeker248 I told u, u can look up pauline christianity for urself and look into the dead sea scrolls for urself.im in no position to make truths for u as u r in no position to make truths for me.i was simply telling u what I believed and why.u want to investigate further, be my guest.but dont try to turn this into a phylosophical debate.ans just because the 10commandments are in the scrolls that doesnt make them directly from god.its possible that moses authored them himself.but...
angelic9889 1 month ago
@angelic9889 I have "looked it up", again you keep referencing the dead sea scrolls have you ever read them? Do you know what they contain? Do you know what the beliefs of the people who wrote them where? They contain the whole OT except for the book of ester, the OT predicted a divine Messiah, ,, the dead sea scrolls where hidden by Gnostic, Gnostic s believe Jesus was divine,
ceeker248 1 month ago
@ceeker248 the scrolls never mention jesus or the followers of jesus.the belief that gnostics hid them away is only speculation.the fact that jesus--a man thought to be divine--is never mentioned could be evidence to support the fact that he wasnt divine.why else wouldnt the son of god, the third part of a "holy trinity" not even be mentioned?wouldnt someone as important as that get atleast a footnote?
angelic9889 1 month ago
@angelic9889 if " the scrolls never mention jesus or the followers of jesus.the belief " then why did you tell me earlier " the original christians are yhe followers of james.look up the dead sea scrolls for urself. "? If the scrolls don;t contain anything about Jesus or his followers what in the scrolls would tell me anything about James? Again another illogical statement from you miss.
ceeker248 1 month ago
@ceeker248 I said the scrolls were written by james following because thats what I believe.at the time of early christianity there were two major christian groups, james' and paul's.the lack of writings about a divine christ and the fact that the scrolls needed to be hidden away supports that james sect was the owner of the scroll.
angelic9889 3 weeks ago
@angelic9889 If Jesus is never mentioned in the scrolls how can you come to ANY conclusion about Jesus based on the scrolls? Jesus is mentioned in the Bible 1st century document, Jesus is mentioned by Pagan Roman historians who said his followers worshiped him as a God, Jesus is mentioned by the Gnostics..so we should just ignore all that?
ceeker248 1 month ago
@ceeker248 I base my opinion of early christianity on the scrolls.i dont base my conclusions of jesus on what is written in the scrolls.i base my opinions of him on faith and my own truths.which is exactly what ur doing.there is no physical proof, only speculation that this MAN even exisited, yet through ur interpretations--ur truths--of things and ur faith u concluded that not only was he real, he is also mighty GOD.my faith, my truths tell me different
angelic9889 3 weeks ago
@angelic9889 what scrolls? What about these scroll? please do not tell me what I do or don't do, I believe the historical record Jesus existed and claimed to be equal in nature to his father God he either lied or told the truth.
ceeker248 3 weeks ago
@ceeker248 if thats what u believe, ur free to do so.but there is no tangible proof to the matter is what im saying.but yet u believe.its ur truths, ur faith that tells u so.which is ok.my truths, my faith tells me differently.i do not shun you for what u believe, please have the same respect for me
angelic9889 3 weeks ago
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ceeker248 3 weeks ago
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@angelic9889 is the Christian Bible a Historical document? Yes or No, Is the Didache a historical document? Yes or No? are the writings of the church fathers historical documents, Yes or no? Are the histories of Roman historians historical documents? Yes or no?
ceeker248 3 weeks ago
@ceeker248 and we as christians are to have pagans tell us how to believe?
angelic9889 3 weeks ago
@angelic9889 3. the vast majority of the contents of the scrolls predate Jesus, the scrolls do contain the book of Isaiah which predicts the Messiah is God with Us, God almighty, and the Lord would come to His temple..do you reject this also?
ceeker248 1 month ago
@ceeker248 first off, the messiah, as predicted in isaiah, is NOT GOD REINCARNATE.according to all jewish tradition, old and new, the messiah is the prophet of prophets, a man born of human flesh and ordained by GOD to do his bidding.he is a messenger, not the message.and u can ask any jewish person about that.its all over the torah
angelic9889 3 weeks ago
@angelic9889 So basically you have taken the scripture and tossed it behind you back and you want to justify it by references what the Jews say as if that's on the same level as God's words?
ceeker248 3 weeks ago
@ceeker248 the bible was manmade.it didnt descend to earth on the backs of angels.and what is a christian?A JEW WHO BELIEVES CHRIST TO BE THE MESSIAH.thats why all early christians were jewish, includin jesus himself.thats why the entire bible is based on the torah.thats why jesus was killed during passover.WE ARE JEWS.its time we stop separating ourselves and understand that
angelic9889 3 weeks ago
@angelic9889 you plan on answering my question or just ranting?
ceeker248 3 weeks ago
@ceeker248 no the bible is not a historical document because its faith based for one.secondly its accounts of history are inaccurate nd most of the dates is suggests are incorrect.instead of getting defensive, understand my statement.there is no tangible proof of jesus' exisitence, but yet u believe.ur truths, ur faith tells u so.i respect that and ask u to give me the same respect.u can go on debating if u wish.cite an article or research theology if u wish but fact is, our faith is our proof.
angelic9889 3 weeks ago
@angelic9889 This is not a debate, you would actually have to give complete answers to my questions. There is no logical way to debate a person who reinvents definitions of terms and ideas at whim. Someone who's defense of baseless claims is more baseless claims. You post is complete circular logic, even if we took the Bible off the table you never addressed the Didache, the Church Fathers, or Roman historians. honestly I think me and you even have different definitions of faith.
ceeker248 2 weeks ago
@ceeker248 I didnt address them because it needs not be addressed.putting the works of religious types aside, the only source worth mentioning are ancient historians of whom never mention jesus the nazarine specifically and therefore arent worth addressing either.if u can prove they do mention him specifically--not throw around cryptic quotes for ur own interpretation--which u can not, I applaud u.but saddly still, ur missing the bigger picture
angelic9889 2 weeks ago
@angelic9889 help understand your logic please...lets make it simple.. the Dedache a church manual produced between 60AD or as late as 100AD, are you claiming it was writing by imaginary people for a imaginary first century church?
ceeker248 2 weeks ago
@ceeker248 yes im aware of what it is but logic tells us when looking for accurate historical account u disclude religious sources being that it falls under the category of mythology.and though all myths have a bit of truth behind them, it doesnt hold up as historic evidence.i never said they were imaginary.i said it wasnt worth addressing for the reasons i've just specified
angelic9889 2 weeks ago
@angelic9889 OK, I still do not logically understand your thinking..back to the Dedache.. it's a manual for Christians..Christian you admit existed? So you are saying within 27 to 67(the time between the crucifixion and the writing of the Dadache) years a compete mythology appeared in Juda and the Roman empire that people where ready to die for, when you would have had plenty of people who would have been alive when this "myth" claimed Jesus existed to tell everyone it was just a myth?
ceeker248 2 weeks ago
@ceeker248 again, religious documentation does not hold up as historical evidence.but for fun, i'll play along.according to ur statement, yes, that proves the existence of christians, but it does not directly prove the existence of christ.it proves a faith based group died for what they believed in, not that what they believed in was actually real.
angelic9889 2 weeks ago
@angelic9889 according to my statement? Again was it written by real people or imaginary people..can you be logically consistent.. if it was written by real people it has nothing to do with me i didn't live 2000 years ago. again are you saying a myth spring up in Juda and the Roman empire in 27 to 67 years even with people still alive who would have been eyewitnesses to when and where the "myth" took place?
ceeker248 2 weeks ago
@ceeker248 ur getting defensive again."according to u" in the sense of im directly referencing what u've just said when I make this statement.and to let u know, I personally believe in the decade.however, it is not historical evidence to directly support jesus' existence.it proves his followers were persecuted because of their faith n leaves the reader to make their own conclusions about weather or not the religion is based on fact.
angelic9889 2 weeks ago
@angelic9889 Again so you are saying you believe a myth developed in 27 to 67 years that spread all over the Roman empire when their where people still alive from 27 to 67 years previous who could have just told everyone it never happened?
ceeker248 2 weeks ago
@angelic9889 You are so llogically inconsistent its making my head spin. So the dedache is not a historical evidence that the people who wrote and used it existed? So you are saying a myth developed in 27 to 67 years that spread all over the Roman empire when their where people still alive from 27 to 67 years previous who could have just told everyone it never happened?
ceeker248 2 weeks ago
@ceeker248 no im very consistent.if u would read the words im typing rather than the ones u metaphorically put in my mouth, u would understand my logic.since ur having trouble understanding me, why dont u answer one of my questions for once?you've left almost all of them unanswered.i have but one request: show me any tangible proof of jesus' existence only using true historical evidence such as grave markings, a biography written by true historians, anything but religious sources
angelic9889 2 weeks ago
@angelic9889 "a biography written by true historians, anything but religious sources " so you think there where secular historians with no religion beliefs in the ancient world?
ceeker248 2 weeks ago
@ceeker248 lol u answer a question with another question.hahaha
angelic9889 2 weeks ago
@angelic9889 People during the first century testified to Jesus existing in written form this appeared in a document( a fixed summery of basic Christ beliefs about Jesus) written in 33 AD and was being widely memorized and recited by all Christians by 35AD..myths develop over centuries not months, years or decades.
ceeker248 2 weeks ago
@ceeker248 and people have also testified to being visited by aliens.that leaves too much room for speculation my friend.that would be an F on a history midterm.try again
angelic9889 2 weeks ago
@angelic9889 I think you are done
ceeker248 2 weeks ago
@angelic9889 you are inconsistent logically because you want post modern secular proofs from the ancient world in order to prove Christ existed when the two people you said existed in history don't have any such proofs to prove their existence..in other words you are asking for a proof that could never possibly exist , so you should logically not believe anything about the ancient world.
ceeker248 2 weeks ago
@ceeker248 based on ur logic ancient historians are not viable sources.but based on the standards of tge historical community (people with doctorites in the field) they are viable but the bible and religious texts are not.u wanted to play the history game, well those are the rules as set up by the historic society.now, If ur done id like to remind u that u still havent provided historical evidence.
angelic9889 2 weeks ago
@angelic9889 lol ..at this point it seems like you are just ready to say anything
ceeker248 2 weeks ago
@angelic9889 what do " people with doctorites in the field " use to investigate history?
ceeker248 2 weeks ago
@angelic9889 Dude do you think about what you say before you say it? If anyone who holds to religion can not be a historical source according to you, then who were these secular post modern "ancient historians" ? , know such people existed in the ancient world...know such historians existed until the enlightenment around 1500-1600 AD
ceeker248 2 weeks ago
@ceeker248 i'll give u time to research the topic.the celtics are playing the maverics tonight and im missing the first quarter.take as much time as u need.good night my friend
angelic9889 2 weeks ago
@angelic9889 Another question if the bible can not be a source to attest to the real life historical existence of Jesus, could you name me a ancient person you believe really existed(Like Cleopatra, One of the Caesars etc) and the source you hold as a proof they existed?
ceeker248 2 weeks ago
@ceeker248 I will not just pick one historical figure, I will pick two--the two you've just mentioned.their existence is proven by ancient monuments and historians of whom write without occult undertones.like I said, out of the sources you've mentioned, ancient historians are the only viable ones.however, the historians never mention jesus specifically and therefore ur case stands unproven
angelic9889 2 weeks ago
@angelic9889 Egyptian and and Roman rulers where deities...they were gods in their cultural religions... you have already said anything that comes from religion can not be a historical fact. And you said " historians of whom write without occult undertones " like whom?
ceeker248 2 weeks ago
@ceeker248 the anicient leaders were gods in their own minds.they werent worshipped by the people.it doesnt go zeus god of thunder, ares god of war, ceasar, god of donkeys.it was more of an implementation of power rather than an actual claim to the right of a god.and the historians who documented their lives never worshipped them.
angelic9889 2 weeks ago
@angelic9889 So you are saying the rulers of Egypt and Rome where not worshiped by the people..you are sure about that?
ceeker248 2 weeks ago
@angelic9889 " historians who documented their lives never worshipped them. " what historians documented their lives I have asked this like three time now
ceeker248 2 weeks ago
@ceeker248 no our definitions of faith are the same.its what we put our faith in that differs.i put faith in GOD, in good teachings, in intangible things that can never be proven to be true.i accept there is not proof to anything I put faith in--jesus, JEHOVAH, moses--but yet I believe.i dont need to misinterpret books or research theology to legitimize my beliefs.it is true because I believe I believe it to be.tell me, why did u choose to be a christian?
angelic9889 2 weeks ago
@angelic9889 How did you come to know about God, Jesus, Moses etc ?
ceeker248 2 weeks ago
@ceeker248 sunday school.lol
angelic9889 2 weeks ago
@angelic9889 If " book written by men" can not be trusted why would Sunday school be trusted?
ceeker248 2 weeks ago
@ceeker248 never said the bible cant be trusted.i said its manmade and therefore imperfect.its a good guideline but its not the only source for religious enlightenment.
angelic9889 2 weeks ago
@angelic9889 There where only two groups that believed Jesus was Messiah in Judah the Christians and Gnostics both held him to be divine in some sense, there is no historical record on any third group that believed in a non-divine Jesus in 1st century Palestine...that's just the Facts..you can believe in any tin foil hat conspiracy theory you like but its fiction.
ceeker248 1 month ago
@angelic9889 I would encourage you to read or listen to some lectures on logic and the laws of logic.
ceeker248 1 month ago
@ceeker248 none of that matters.divine or not, the msg is good and it can help lead to spiritual enlightenment.u focus to much on divinity and fear mongering.ur missing the bigger picture.in anyhow I enjoyed this but have to get going.have a good day
angelic9889 1 month ago
@angelic9889 and you know this how?
ceeker248 1 month ago
@angelic9889 most scholars hold to the Qumran-Essene theory for the origin of the dead sea scrolls the Essene and other such sects were Gnostic..Gnostic writing after Jesus all say Jesus was divine in fact they went further then Christians and claimed Jesus was not really a physical human but a spirit who just appeared human, you need to educate yourself beyond you tube video and conspiracy theory books.
ceeker248 1 month ago
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@angelic9889 weather you judge me or not makes no difference to me personally, but your world view is clearly full of logical contradictions its basically a conspiracy theory, you make claims that are based on nothing other then logical leaps and speculation with no facts to back them up.
ceeker248 1 month ago
@angelic9889 how do you know which parts are the Msg of Jesus and which parts are "distorted" ?
ceeker248 1 month ago
@angelic9889 Christianity hit mainstream during the time of Nero? Can you proved a historical reference for that claim, What you said has no historical proof to back it up, Nero become king in 58AD and died in 68AD there is nothing to even hint that Christianity because accepted in the Rome empire during this time, the exact opposite took place Christians were being hunted, imprisoned and killed during this time all the way up to the third century.
ceeker248 1 month ago
@ceeker248 ...which GREATLY differs from the original ideals.the divinity of christ being he biggest of all differences.u dont find mention of that in any other sect but pauline.it was paul's sect that gave life to orthodox faiths and catholocism.and thats why those are the only groups who believe in a divine christ
angelic9889 1 month ago
@angelic9889 If the Divinity of Christ was invented by Paul that's must mean you reject the Bible and you are not Christian correct?
ceeker248 1 month ago
@ceeker248 I reject pauline ideals.i reject believing anyone besides almight jehovah is god.i reject someone telling me what is and isnt christianity.the bible is not god and neither was jesus
angelic9889 1 month ago
@angelic9889 Ok so what are you? A Jew? or some other group? What is your final authority of truth?
ceeker248 1 month ago
@ceeker248 im a judeo-christian and universalist.i dont hold one book or one ideal as truth.its kind of like writing a history paper.u dont use only one source to base ur topic, u need to sift through all available information to find ur own truths.that is real understanding, understanding what is true TO YOU
angelic9889 1 month ago
@angelic9889 So you keep the Law? " understanding what is true TO YOU " so you take yourself as the final authority and there is no Divine revelation or World of God that reveals ultimate truth? And information you sift through is you tube videos Wikipedia and documentations ?
ceeker248 1 month ago
@ceeker248 I keep my own law just as u should keep ur own law.a relationship with god is a personal, life long thing that no book, no man--be he reverend, pastor or priest--should come between.i dont search on the internet for religious truth, I search EVERYWHERE--books, magazine articles, my personal life--because almighty jehovah is everywhere.he's not limited on one book or one idea of one man
angelic9889 1 month ago
@angelic9889 So do you accept the 10 commandments as being form God?
ceeker248 1 month ago
@ceeker248 im not sure and I will never be sure if the 10 commandments came directly from god himself.but im sure that there something to be learned from them and thats why I hold them as part of a greater truth.thats the point, it doesnt matter if words were spawned from god himself of breathed by simple men, as long as the msg is good, it can lead u to religious understanding
angelic9889 1 month ago
@angelic9889 Does God consider telling a lie a Sin?
ceeker248 1 month ago
@ceeker248 yes, just like believing any other entity besides jehovah is divine, god believes lying is a sin.
angelic9889 1 month ago
@angelic9889 so have you told any lies before?
ceeker248 1 month ago
@ceeker248 yes.im not jehovah.im not perfect.no one on this earth is
angelic9889 1 month ago
@ceeker248 so you are guilty of telling lies well I am to, people who tell lies are liars so we are liars. You are right Yeweh is Holy. Have you ever lusted for another person, you know Jesus said to look on another with lust is to commit adultery in the heart and adultery is one of the 10 commandments..so have you ever done this?
ceeker248 1 month ago
@ceeker248 we are all guilty of lust.its human nature.perfectly imperfect
angelic9889 1 month ago
@angelic9889 ok so you have confessed to being a liar and now a adulterer, So if Yeweh judges you after you die based on his commandments you will be guilty of breaking his commands..so should he give you justice at that point?
ceeker248 1 month ago
@ceeker248 who are we to say how we or others will be judged.thats up to jehovah.i dont have the power to say what will happen to me and neither does anyone else.all we can do as mortals is live as good of a life as we can and give praise to jehovah.we do not have athority to judge our sins or the sins of others.jesus taught us that
angelic9889 1 month ago
@angelic9889 Yeweh has the right to say how He will judge and He has informed us He said in Romans 6:23 that the wages of Sin is death.. you have confessed to being a lying adulterer so you deserve death, what plan of salvation does your religion offer?
ceeker248 1 month ago
@ceeker248 love, prayer and repentance is the main focus.as ive said before, the relationship between someone and god is person and emotional and life long.no hail mary's, no confessionals, no book will allow u to walk with him properly.what god means to u is one thing.what god is for me is another.the only person who knows right is jehovah himself.
angelic9889 1 month ago
@angelic9889 ok i get that again you are a self admitted Sinner a Liar and Adulterer someone who has rebelled against His commandments..so that means you are liable to receive Yewehs Justice ..yes or no?
ceeker248 1 month ago
@ceeker248 arent we all subject to his will?and those are the sins YOUVE accused me of.i admit, in my lifetime, ive told lies, as has everyone else.ive lusted, wether u define that as adultery or not is ur opinion based on YOUR bible interpretation not jehovahs.by ur standards, if u were god which u are not, id be in the need of "justice" old testament style.lol but I think im doing just fine thanks.whatever jehovah has in store for me, let it come.im sure I deserved whatever HE wills.not YOU
angelic9889 1 month ago
@angelic9889 that doesn't answer the question do you deserve Yeweh's justice?
ceeker248 1 month ago
@ceeker248 you are jewish?
angelic9889 1 month ago
@angelic9889 No I am not, I am a Sinner saved by grace not of my own merit least I have something to boast about before a Holy God.
ceeker248 1 month ago
@855842 fact is, just as muslims are often stereotyped by christians, im finding out more and more that christians are being stereotyped by muslims.maybe instead of wasting energy fighting amoungst each other, we can utilize that energy and educate each other?alls im sayin is its almost 2012, this whole muslim vs christian/jew thing is centuries played out.after 2 gulf wars, im tired.arent u?
angelic9889 1 month ago
Maybe your right on that but in the UK we have a Muslim called Anjem Choudry who says we as Muslims will dominate the world and you will all live under sharia law and watch the video called Islamic awakening conference ..this is not the media
thenosurrender09 8 months ago
There are many Muslim countries where you could freely change your religion and no one would even care! The media happens to pick up on only on the horrible stories about Islam, in order to perpetuate fear and hatred. The US government fails to look after its own people (eg. New Orleans). So in order for the people not to turn around and ask them what the fuck is going on, they look for unity by creating a common enemy. Even so...i hope the father and daughter are living happily now =)
MHINC88 8 months ago
Ovomit couldn't care less, he's a scuzlim as well. Islam is evil, Muhammad and Allah are just another name for Satan! Muhammad thought he himself was demos possessed! He "re-wrote" Allah's words and commands-and married a 6 year old girl and consummated their marriage when she was 9! Muhammad is a pervert Islam is a perversion
rickmonique 9 months ago 5
Muslim leaders prove islam to be a dictatorship
GrandmasterTigerfist 9 months ago 3
Let's be clear about how we learn what true islam means:
When we hear bombs, we hear Islam
When we see women dressed in black sacks, we see Islam
When we learn of amputations and stonings, we learn about Islam
When we read about sexism and homophobia, we read about Islam
When we face animality, anger and greed for power, we face Islam
When we smell death, we smell Islam
When we hear muslims say peace, we know they mean war
Islam is just one big FALLACY!
Vote this up....
PoetNadr 10 months ago 13
This has been flagged as spam show
Let's be clear about how we learn what true islam means:
When we hear bombs, we hear Islam
When we see women dressed in black sacks, we see Islam
When we learn of amputations and stonings, we learn about Islam
When we read about sexism and homophobia, we read about Islam
When we face animality, anger and greed for power, we face Islam
When we smell death, we smell Islam
When we hear muslims say peace, we know they mean war
Islam is just one big FALLCY!
Vote this up
PoetNadr 10 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Let's be clear about how we learn what true islam means:
When we hear bombs, we hear Islam
When we see women dressed in black sacks, we see Islam
When we learn of amputations and stonings, we learn about Islam
When we read about sexism and homophobia, we read about Islam
When we face animality, anger and greed for power, we face Islam
When we smell death, we smell Islam
When we hear muslims say peace, we know they mean war
Islam is just one big FALLCY!
Vote this up
PoetNadr 10 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Let's be clear about how we learn what true islam means:
When we hear bombs, we hear Islam
When we see women dressed in black sacks, we see Islam
When we learn of amputations and stonings, we learn about Islam
When we read about sexism and homophobia, we read about Islam
When we face animality, anger and greed for power, we face Islam
When we smell death, we smell Islam
When we hear muslims say peace, we know they mean war
Islam is just one big FALLCY!
Vote this up
PoetNadr 10 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Let's be clear about how we learn what true islam means:
When we hear bombs, we hear Islam
When we see women dressed in black sacks, we see Islam
When we learn of amputations and stonings, we learn about Islam
When we read about sexism and homophobia, we read about Islam
When we face animality, anger and greed for power, we face Islam
When we smell death, we smell Islam
When we hear muslims say peace, we know they mean war
Islam is just one big FALLCY!
Vote this up
PoetNadr 10 months ago
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PoetNadr 10 months ago
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l wish all the world will unite against islam....
dimartini12 10 months ago
1John 2;18 Young children,it is the last hour, and just .as you have heart that antichrist is coming ,evennow there have come to have many antichrist;from whichfact we gain the knoledge that itis the last hour.1John 2;22 who is the liar if it is not the one that denies that Jesus is the christ .or ( Gods chosen one)this is the antichrist. islam denies that God has send his son Jesus to earth to atone for for mankind by means of his shed blood on the cross ,where does that place ,islam,//??
nedboer 10 months ago
Obama ain't no christian...once a muzzie, always a muzzie. Otherwise, he would have been BEHEADED.
azjeff1971 10 months ago
Though i do not like Bush, but he did step in when an Afghan converted to Christianity was to be sentenced to death in Afghanistan. His life was saved. But yet Obama has not stepped in once.
DESheffield2nd 10 months ago
obama is a muslim for sure// there a man in a pakistan jail .because he became a christian. they whant to kill him for that , he wrote to obama to intervene on his behalf.. but obama has hot responded in away yet .Jesus said they percecuted me and they will persecute you also john15;20 those percecuting christians are in reality doing satans work.koran8;57 ishall terrorrize the infidell.so wound their bodies and incapacitate them because because they oppose alla and his apostle ,go figure./
nedboer 11 months ago