I really like this video Carson, you make some very valid points. I hope many people watch this video because I feel sometimes people get too caught up with attacking those within our own community who mean no harm. People need to be appreciative for having supports, even if they may not be as aware as other individuals. It seems easier for people to direct their anger towards their own community as the may feel its easier to change that than the bigger picture. Again, brilliant video!
I think on a grand scale policing shouldn't exist. In the same way that we are telling society we are "different", people within the community sometimes use policing to tell us (trans*individuals) we should all be the same. It's stupid and counterproductive. There are things I think that should be talked about, and mostly it lies in offensive terminology. Any individual regardless of personal struggle, gender identity, or unchecked privilege shouldn't use derogatory terms.
No answers, just an observation. The same issue exists in the black community. There are many African Americans who use the "n" word freely and with great relish when referencing other African Americans. And still others that I know personally who would NEVER use that word and cringe when they here anyone else using it. Personal preference I guess!
No, I don't think we should police people's identities - we all have similarities and differences. We are all individuals and it can be really painful to try and make yourself be like others or to feel excluded because you are not stereotypical in some way. However, as for people being hateful, hurtful, rude - I feel it is OK to guide each other with regards to our shared humanity (whilst avoiding counter attack which just makes matters worse).
I think it's problematic to allow someone to take over the energy of your video and make it about language usage more than the larger community behaviors you were describing. I think I understood you to be referencing a larger dynamic (much to complex to address in a YT video and do it justice) and he somehow was refocused everyone on to word usage. All I can say is... JEEZUS.
(2 of 2) Sure, arguments are often more effective when presented objectively and respectfully, but I think it's unfair to expect marginalized people to put aside their emotions and calmly educate/reason with folks who, intentionally or not, hurt and oppress them. As much as I'm uncomfortable with language policing, I'm also uncomfortable with tone policing.
@tricksyhobbitses This video is about how transpeople resolve conflict with other transpeople. So all people in those conversations are marginalized, and it becomes rather dicey to determine whose language is "best." For example, some people find fault with the term "passing," while others are okay with using that term to describe where they are in the transition process.
@tricksyhobbitses Due to generational, educational, geographical, and cultural differences, we describe our experiences in different ways. Should we then demonize each other, in response to those differences? Or try to find some kind of workable balance between achieving consensus and just respecting our differences? I understand there are no easy answers here.
@postgender I totally agree. Everyone comes to the table with different experiences and histories, and it makes for a rich and diverse, if complicated and often frustrating, conversation. I guess my point was primarily that, in my experience, the folks I've most often seen criticized for being angry during conflict have been trans women (particularly trans women of color), and this criticism often comes from other trans folks who happen to be in positions of relatively more privilege.
@postgender Also, I just want to say that I just checked out your channel, and I really appreciate your perspective and insights. I'll be watching more of your videos in the future!
(1 of 2) I think it's important to be civil when calling people out on their privilege and bringing attention to how words and actions negatively affect others. But I'm not comfortable issuing an across-the-board criticism of folks who respond to oppressive, hurtful language/actions with anger.
I think the only policing we do should be to ensure each of us the right to define ourselves -- with whatever labels we choose -- and to respect the self-identity of others. Usage patterns of the language will emerge with time
From what I've gathered, it seems like it's a really difficult thing to go black or white on. On the one hand, everyone should be supportive of each other and it's ideal to be PC, especially about namecalling and such. But on the other hand, it really depends on who you're dealing with. The trans couple I'm friends with doesn't mind if I call them names in jest, but another gay friend of mine would never speak to me again if I ever called her a lesbian, jokingly or not.
@jasonlittlewolf Yeah, I think consideration is key. Some older-generation transpeople use the word "tranny" within their friend groups and are okay with that, and I really don't think anyone has the right to shame them about it. Now, if those same people went outside their circle and started calling others (who were uncomfortable with it) that, then obviously there is a need for discussion.
THIS. Oh my god. I think calling people out is important, but the way people call others out is getting out of hand. Ad hominem attacks, completely writing people off, etc. is all uncalled for and is not at all constructive. I understand that it can be frustrating to feel like people are being offensive or that your voice is being heard, but being confrontational and angry to others within your own community isn't going to help!
Word, this video is where its at. If we continue fighting with eachother were def just doing damage. As far as the word tranny... I'm not for it. To me, its like n.gga or fagg.t.... its done too much damage for me to refer my fellow siblings with that word. Yo, if we check out how solidarity has helped oppressed groups and how (from a social justice perspective) "the white man" has always kept brown folks fighting eachother to keep em low and in place, we need to learn from that and stop fightin
@ElSerVerdadero For me the turning point was witnessing that the word "tranny" was emotionally hurtful to the transwomen in my life. And that was it was me. The turning point was not being preached to by some over-privileged white transman. haha. Yes, we need to focus as least as much on solidarity as on nit-picking.
@rriverstone1 It can take me a while to respond to each video comment (if I do at all). So if you're needing instant gratification, you're welcome to unsubscribe. Honestly, if I got offended at everyone who never responded to my comments, I'd be mad at 90 percent of the people I'm subscribed to.
PPS (I'm nearly done, promise) ...being a famous trans person does come with responsibilities, and that means not deliberately using language that many many people have stated makes them unhappy. Using language in that way and then crying 'politic correctness police' is repulsive. It's just common courtesy to not insult people, and that has to do with being human and caring not just being trans.
PS. I think those in the position of privilege - and by that I mean the people for who being trans is part of their private AND professional life (all the T word users on twitter you refer to) - should be aware that their words have power. How can we teach children not to use words like 'gay' as an insult? how can we reduce teenager LGBT suicides and bullying if there are no role models within the community saying, you know what, THIS WORD is the worst thing in the world to some trans people?
@TheEsotericdyke I think children are pretty sharp and that they understand context. For example, lots of adolescents listen to hip hop music that has the N word in the lyrics, but they know not to use that word in their everyday language. I think when people hear a Lady Gaga song and hear the word "bitch," they don't assume that she hates women, or herself. But I agree that language is complicated, with lots of baggage.
@postgender I think that depth of understanding of language only comes later on in life. I was a teacher, and I know many other teachers, and the use of homophobic language as an insult is rife in primary schools.
I agree that CONTEXT is everything when it comes to emotive language. The particular row on twitter came about because the singer suggested there should be a "trannythursday" hashtag. Public forums limited to 140 characters aren't really the best place to get into semantic arguments.x
I do think that people should challenge any terminology that oppresses a particular section of society. It makes my toes curl when I hear anyone use the N word, the T word etc. I understand that reclaiming a word is totally empowering for the group that reclaim it, but when large sections of that group find it oppressive and demeaning, then it's time to think again. How can we challenge transphobia if we can't even get our shit together about what is transphobic language?
@TheEsotericdyke I stopped using the word "tranny" to describe myself quite a while ago out of consideration for the women in my life. And I agree that people in a position of power or visibility need to be mindful of their language. That being said, there's still a distinction to be drawn between a cisgender person using the word "tranny" and a transgender person using the word to describe her/him-self.
(2) Some people are reclaiming the word tranny. Some label themselves as a tranny. Should we tell them not to? If RuPaul calls himself a tranny or a transguy calls himself a tranny, should we tell them they can't/shouldn't? My opinion, is no. Call yourself whatever you want. I'm not policing identities. It's not my place. GREAT video. Thanks for talking about this and starting the dialogue. We don't need to fight. We can all discuss and agree or discuss and agree to disagree. Have a great week
(1) I've always been a firm believer in respectfully letting people know that a certain word or phrase offends ME. Before saying anything, though, I consider context.
It's also important to listen and take into account that others might be offended by the things you say. That's life. It's more about showing respect and communicating like adults. Everyone has a right to speak and express their opinions while the audience has every right to disagree.
@JackGr8ndEmpire Yes, I think sometimes when we discuss these things within our own groups, we forget that we've fought hard for our identities. So if we use language that offends another person, we have to be more careful. But we also have to be careful not to dismiss another person's label.
thanks for this. i've been trying to pinpoint what it is that rubbed me the wrong way about the OP post and i think you've really gotten to the heart of it.
I tend to treat people's identities as either off limits or a personal thing that may be very sensitive. It's like my policy on people's bodies. I might respectfully inquire further about something, but if they don't want to go there then that is totally fine.
I was thinking about my "right" to privately or in good company reclaim words like "fag." I feel that a person who has received certain prejudices or (mis)perceptions has at least some right to reclaim or use those words.
@Gamercat01 I think it's okay to reclaim certain words for yourself if you're a member of that oppressed group. I always get a little peeved when straight cisgender dudes joke that they're lesbian. *eyeroll* haha
@postgender Oh yeah, that totally gets me too. I used to hang out with a lot of cisguys who seemed to fancy interpreting a part of my identity through the distorted lens of a lesbian porn fetish.
Anyways, I'm liking the discussions here. For some reason I feel like it's appropriate to throw in a good quote from SLC Punk.
"The problem with people giving you shit about being gay, it's not that they're wrong aboucha man. It's that they're givin' ya shit. Get it?"
I think that questioning other people on words they use and identify with can be very helpful in creating that united community we all strive for. Some things are very hurtful to people and I always wonder why people will cling to certain terminology which they gain little from yet hurt many others with.
@AleaFails I agree. I actually believe we have a responsibility to let others know when they are being hurtful -- it's a sign of respect to both the self and to the other person, who may be unaware of how they impact others. But we need to examine our strategies for having these conversations, so that the "offenders" aren't so shamed/damaged that they want to totally check out.
I agree! There´s so much name calling just because people don´t agree. What happened to different views and the right to respectfully disagreeing. Also the attitude that because I am *this* I have it worse than you so you have no right to your identity, experiences or feelings. It is not helping it is tearing us apart.
I really like this video Carson, you make some very valid points. I hope many people watch this video because I feel sometimes people get too caught up with attacking those within our own community who mean no harm. People need to be appreciative for having supports, even if they may not be as aware as other individuals. It seems easier for people to direct their anger towards their own community as the may feel its easier to change that than the bigger picture. Again, brilliant video!
AussieFTM 20 hours ago
some big thinking here, keep it up...
Transmisandry <- a friend added this to the trans* lexicon.
as opposed to Trans Misogyny.
Indi3R 3 days ago
I think on a grand scale policing shouldn't exist. In the same way that we are telling society we are "different", people within the community sometimes use policing to tell us (trans*individuals) we should all be the same. It's stupid and counterproductive. There are things I think that should be talked about, and mostly it lies in offensive terminology. Any individual regardless of personal struggle, gender identity, or unchecked privilege shouldn't use derogatory terms.
kronicallyindecisive 3 weeks ago
No answers, just an observation. The same issue exists in the black community. There are many African Americans who use the "n" word freely and with great relish when referencing other African Americans. And still others that I know personally who would NEVER use that word and cringe when they here anyone else using it. Personal preference I guess!
texasT10 4 weeks ago
Comment removed
anarkistiska 4 weeks ago
No, I don't think we should police people's identities - we all have similarities and differences. We are all individuals and it can be really painful to try and make yourself be like others or to feel excluded because you are not stereotypical in some way. However, as for people being hateful, hurtful, rude - I feel it is OK to guide each other with regards to our shared humanity (whilst avoiding counter attack which just makes matters worse).
TheAlexanderOscar 1 month ago
@postgender Yeah, but that is a national trend, not just owned by the trans community. lol.
NatChoCheeze1 1 month ago
I think it's problematic to allow someone to take over the energy of your video and make it about language usage more than the larger community behaviors you were describing. I think I understood you to be referencing a larger dynamic (much to complex to address in a YT video and do it justice) and he somehow was refocused everyone on to word usage. All I can say is... JEEZUS.
NatChoCheeze1 1 month ago
(2 of 2) Sure, arguments are often more effective when presented objectively and respectfully, but I think it's unfair to expect marginalized people to put aside their emotions and calmly educate/reason with folks who, intentionally or not, hurt and oppress them. As much as I'm uncomfortable with language policing, I'm also uncomfortable with tone policing.
tricksyhobbitses 1 month ago
@tricksyhobbitses This video is about how transpeople resolve conflict with other transpeople. So all people in those conversations are marginalized, and it becomes rather dicey to determine whose language is "best." For example, some people find fault with the term "passing," while others are okay with using that term to describe where they are in the transition process.
postgender 1 month ago
@tricksyhobbitses Due to generational, educational, geographical, and cultural differences, we describe our experiences in different ways. Should we then demonize each other, in response to those differences? Or try to find some kind of workable balance between achieving consensus and just respecting our differences? I understand there are no easy answers here.
postgender 1 month ago
@postgender I totally agree. Everyone comes to the table with different experiences and histories, and it makes for a rich and diverse, if complicated and often frustrating, conversation. I guess my point was primarily that, in my experience, the folks I've most often seen criticized for being angry during conflict have been trans women (particularly trans women of color), and this criticism often comes from other trans folks who happen to be in positions of relatively more privilege.
tricksyhobbitses 1 month ago
@postgender Also, I just want to say that I just checked out your channel, and I really appreciate your perspective and insights. I'll be watching more of your videos in the future!
tricksyhobbitses 1 month ago
(1 of 2) I think it's important to be civil when calling people out on their privilege and bringing attention to how words and actions negatively affect others. But I'm not comfortable issuing an across-the-board criticism of folks who respond to oppressive, hurtful language/actions with anger.
tricksyhobbitses 1 month ago
I think the only policing we do should be to ensure each of us the right to define ourselves -- with whatever labels we choose -- and to respect the self-identity of others. Usage patterns of the language will emerge with time
SamanthaZero34 1 month ago 2
From what I've gathered, it seems like it's a really difficult thing to go black or white on. On the one hand, everyone should be supportive of each other and it's ideal to be PC, especially about namecalling and such. But on the other hand, it really depends on who you're dealing with. The trans couple I'm friends with doesn't mind if I call them names in jest, but another gay friend of mine would never speak to me again if I ever called her a lesbian, jokingly or not.
sjbresnahan 1 month ago
@jasonlittlewolf Yeah, I think consideration is key. Some older-generation transpeople use the word "tranny" within their friend groups and are okay with that, and I really don't think anyone has the right to shame them about it. Now, if those same people went outside their circle and started calling others (who were uncomfortable with it) that, then obviously there is a need for discussion.
postgender 1 month ago
THIS. Oh my god. I think calling people out is important, but the way people call others out is getting out of hand. Ad hominem attacks, completely writing people off, etc. is all uncalled for and is not at all constructive. I understand that it can be frustrating to feel like people are being offensive or that your voice is being heard, but being confrontational and angry to others within your own community isn't going to help!
Zakabre18 1 month ago
Word, this video is where its at. If we continue fighting with eachother were def just doing damage. As far as the word tranny... I'm not for it. To me, its like n.gga or fagg.t.... its done too much damage for me to refer my fellow siblings with that word. Yo, if we check out how solidarity has helped oppressed groups and how (from a social justice perspective) "the white man" has always kept brown folks fighting eachother to keep em low and in place, we need to learn from that and stop fightin
ElSerVerdadero 1 month ago
@ElSerVerdadero For me the turning point was witnessing that the word "tranny" was emotionally hurtful to the transwomen in my life. And that was it was me. The turning point was not being preached to by some over-privileged white transman. haha. Yes, we need to focus as least as much on solidarity as on nit-picking.
postgender 1 month ago
I leave positive, supportive comments on your videos. I receive no response. So, I'm guessing my opinions, experiences and sentiments aren't valued.
rriverstone1 1 month ago
@rriverstone1 It can take me a while to respond to each video comment (if I do at all). So if you're needing instant gratification, you're welcome to unsubscribe. Honestly, if I got offended at everyone who never responded to my comments, I'd be mad at 90 percent of the people I'm subscribed to.
postgender 1 month ago
@rriverstone1 On a less defensive note, I do read every comment I ever receive, and I do appreciate you.
postgender 1 month ago 3
PPS (I'm nearly done, promise) ...being a famous trans person does come with responsibilities, and that means not deliberately using language that many many people have stated makes them unhappy. Using language in that way and then crying 'politic correctness police' is repulsive. It's just common courtesy to not insult people, and that has to do with being human and caring not just being trans.
TheEsotericdyke 1 month ago
PS. I think those in the position of privilege - and by that I mean the people for who being trans is part of their private AND professional life (all the T word users on twitter you refer to) - should be aware that their words have power. How can we teach children not to use words like 'gay' as an insult? how can we reduce teenager LGBT suicides and bullying if there are no role models within the community saying, you know what, THIS WORD is the worst thing in the world to some trans people?
TheEsotericdyke 1 month ago
@TheEsotericdyke I think children are pretty sharp and that they understand context. For example, lots of adolescents listen to hip hop music that has the N word in the lyrics, but they know not to use that word in their everyday language. I think when people hear a Lady Gaga song and hear the word "bitch," they don't assume that she hates women, or herself. But I agree that language is complicated, with lots of baggage.
postgender 1 month ago
@postgender I think that depth of understanding of language only comes later on in life. I was a teacher, and I know many other teachers, and the use of homophobic language as an insult is rife in primary schools.
I agree that CONTEXT is everything when it comes to emotive language. The particular row on twitter came about because the singer suggested there should be a "trannythursday" hashtag. Public forums limited to 140 characters aren't really the best place to get into semantic arguments.x
TheEsotericdyke 1 month ago
I do think that people should challenge any terminology that oppresses a particular section of society. It makes my toes curl when I hear anyone use the N word, the T word etc. I understand that reclaiming a word is totally empowering for the group that reclaim it, but when large sections of that group find it oppressive and demeaning, then it's time to think again. How can we challenge transphobia if we can't even get our shit together about what is transphobic language?
TheEsotericdyke 1 month ago
@TheEsotericdyke I stopped using the word "tranny" to describe myself quite a while ago out of consideration for the women in my life. And I agree that people in a position of power or visibility need to be mindful of their language. That being said, there's still a distinction to be drawn between a cisgender person using the word "tranny" and a transgender person using the word to describe her/him-self.
postgender 1 month ago
(2) Some people are reclaiming the word tranny. Some label themselves as a tranny. Should we tell them not to? If RuPaul calls himself a tranny or a transguy calls himself a tranny, should we tell them they can't/shouldn't? My opinion, is no. Call yourself whatever you want. I'm not policing identities. It's not my place. GREAT video. Thanks for talking about this and starting the dialogue. We don't need to fight. We can all discuss and agree or discuss and agree to disagree. Have a great week
JackGr8ndEmpire 1 month ago
(1) I've always been a firm believer in respectfully letting people know that a certain word or phrase offends ME. Before saying anything, though, I consider context.
It's also important to listen and take into account that others might be offended by the things you say. That's life. It's more about showing respect and communicating like adults. Everyone has a right to speak and express their opinions while the audience has every right to disagree.
JackGr8ndEmpire 1 month ago 2
@JackGr8ndEmpire Yes, I think sometimes when we discuss these things within our own groups, we forget that we've fought hard for our identities. So if we use language that offends another person, we have to be more careful. But we also have to be careful not to dismiss another person's label.
postgender 1 month ago
thanks for this. i've been trying to pinpoint what it is that rubbed me the wrong way about the OP post and i think you've really gotten to the heart of it.
thegingerqueer 1 month ago
@thegingerqueer It's apparent such discussions aren't going away anytime soon, eh? :)
postgender 1 month ago
@jasonlittlewolf omg hilarious!
postgender 1 month ago
Excellent video.
I tend to treat people's identities as either off limits or a personal thing that may be very sensitive. It's like my policy on people's bodies. I might respectfully inquire further about something, but if they don't want to go there then that is totally fine.
I was thinking about my "right" to privately or in good company reclaim words like "fag." I feel that a person who has received certain prejudices or (mis)perceptions has at least some right to reclaim or use those words.
Gamercat01 1 month ago
@Gamercat01 I think it's okay to reclaim certain words for yourself if you're a member of that oppressed group. I always get a little peeved when straight cisgender dudes joke that they're lesbian. *eyeroll* haha
postgender 1 month ago
@postgender Oh yeah, that totally gets me too. I used to hang out with a lot of cisguys who seemed to fancy interpreting a part of my identity through the distorted lens of a lesbian porn fetish.
Anyways, I'm liking the discussions here. For some reason I feel like it's appropriate to throw in a good quote from SLC Punk.
"The problem with people giving you shit about being gay, it's not that they're wrong aboucha man. It's that they're givin' ya shit. Get it?"
;P
Gamercat01 1 month ago
I think that questioning other people on words they use and identify with can be very helpful in creating that united community we all strive for. Some things are very hurtful to people and I always wonder why people will cling to certain terminology which they gain little from yet hurt many others with.
AleaFails 1 month ago
@AleaFails I agree. I actually believe we have a responsibility to let others know when they are being hurtful -- it's a sign of respect to both the self and to the other person, who may be unaware of how they impact others. But we need to examine our strategies for having these conversations, so that the "offenders" aren't so shamed/damaged that they want to totally check out.
postgender 1 month ago
THIS
smithsmithboy 1 month ago
@smithsmithboy :) xoxo
postgender 1 month ago
I agree! There´s so much name calling just because people don´t agree. What happened to different views and the right to respectfully disagreeing. Also the attitude that because I am *this* I have it worse than you so you have no right to your identity, experiences or feelings. It is not helping it is tearing us apart.
Hundkoppel 1 month ago
@Hundkoppel I saw the term "Oppression Olympics" the other day and it really made me laugh. So true.
postgender 1 month ago
RuPaul, 2012!
PostSurgeOperative 1 month ago
@PostSurgeOperative lol. That was so funny when some confused RuPaul with Ron Paul. oh, America...
postgender 1 month ago