Ron Paul supporters just repeat the same empty rhetoric like Obama supporters. Example is that we should pull out of the Middle East. That is NOT going to happen. The second we do that Iran will collapse Saudi Arabia and our gas prices will go to 12 dollars a gallon. Our country will not survive that. If anyone scrutinizes Ron Pauls policies rather than mindlessly repeating them, they would realize that his rhetoric is as empty as Obama's rhetoric.
@knight4justice The rhetoric isn't empty,but meaningful. It's true that our philosophy is simple. We believe in liberty and we believe in staying out of other people's business. As for intervening in the Middle East,we believe that the dangers we are facing overseas are blowback from our intervening in other people's affairs. That is certainly true with Iran which is only a problem for us because we over threw their democratically elected government in 1953,replacing it with a viscious despot.
@thomaserossi I too find the term neocon annoying. However,Ron Paul's rhetoric is hardly meaningless unless,of course,you believe freedom is meaningless. How is the rhetoric of a man meaningless when that man predicted decades ago our present economic collaspe? How is it meaningless when he consistently defend us from the wars our leaders promote and other unconstitutional power grabs such as the Patriot's Acts? He is the most meaningful & principled man to seek the presidency since Cleveland.
@knight4justice We do scrutinizes his policies. What are you going to do when our economy can no longer support a Military Empire that is spread through out the World and we can not bring our troops home leaving our boarders unprotected. Then the middle east will do what ever they our going to do and it won't matter that we are there. I would rather be able to protect myself , my country and boarders than to spread my protection worrying about another country's policies.
@Adair1979 It will matter that we arent there because if we pull out of Saudi Arabia the Saudi Monarchy will collapse. The most extreme form of Islam is in Saudi Arabia and they will take control of Saudi Arabia (remember 15 of the 19 9/11 hijackers and OBL were Saudi). Once the Saudi Monarchy collapses we will lose a major source of our oil and our oil prices will go to $10 a gallon. Our fragile economy wont survive that. We cant pull out of the Middle East.
@knight4justice The problem being that you have not been paying attention to, is the way we are going we are going to collapse economically and won't be able to control the Saudi Monarchy anymore and what ever may come in the middle east will come anyway and when America can no longer bully there way around the world and we extend our hand out for support do you really think we will get any????????
@Adair1979 We arent bullying the Saudi's and we arent controlling them. In 1945 we made an agreement with Saudi Arabia, we will give them military protection if they give us oil and we agreed to have our oil companies split the money 50/50. We made a legitimate treaty and a legitimate trade agreement that both sides agreed to. How is that bullying and controlling? You have been listening to way too much Ron Paul propaganda. Ron Paul doesnt even know the basic facts of the Middle East.
@knight4justice Harmony liberal intercourse with all nations are recommened by policy,humanity and interest.But even our commercial policy should hold an equal and impartial hand,neither Seeking nor Granting exculsive favors or perferences,consulting the natural course of things,diffusing and diversifying by gentle means the streams of commerce, but forcing nothing,establishing(with powers so disposed,in order to give trade a stable course, to define the rights of merchants,and to enable
@Adair1979 government to support them) conventional rules of intercourse,the best that present circumstances and mutual opinion will permit , but temporary and liable to be from time to time abandoned or varied, as experience and circumstances shall dictate,constantly keeping in view that it is folly in one nation to look for disinterested favor from another, that it must pay with portion of independence for whatever it may accept under that character, that by such acceptance, it may place
@Adair1979 itself in the condition of having givin equivalents for nominal favors, and yet of being reproached with ingratitude for not giving more. There can be no greater ERROR than to expect or calculate upon real favors Nation to Nation. It is an illusion,which experience must care, which pride ought to discard. I know by your remarks you would not vote for this President, because he believes as Ron Paul does GEORGE WASHINGTON. If you had voted then we may not even be America
@Adair1979 if the Saudi Monarchy backs out of their end of the deal then their monarchy is going to be overthrown. So yes we can calculate favors from nation to nation. Ur entire delusional rant is based on a fallacy. Get back to reality.
I voted for McCain in 2008 and Huckabee in the primaries. Now I am supporting Bachmann. Before you go into that America might not exist if I voted, maybe you should know something about the person.
@Adair1979 I know this may be a major surprise for you. But diplomacy has changed for America in 230 years. We are no longer 13 colonies. We are the worlds strongest country and the country that has millions of people coming to it looking for freedom every year.
You would give Ron Paul credit for signing the Declaration of Indepence and signing the Constitution if you could.
@Adair1979 Yes America will get support. Saying whatever happens in the Middle East is going to happen whether we are there or not is like saying we are going to go bankrupt no matter what we do, therefore we should just give up here in America.
We dont bully our way around the world. If America is so evil, can you explain to me why millions of immigrants from all over the world come to America every year and why so many countries come to America for aid when they are in need?
@knight4justice it may place itself in the condition of having given equivalents for nominal favors, and yet of being reproached with ingratitude for not giving more. There can be no greater error than to expect or calculate upon real favors from nation to nation. It is an illusion, which experience must cure, which a just pride ought to discard.
@Adair1979 what are you trying to say in your last comment? It seems like you dont have any facts to back up what you are saying so you are trying to get into some philosophical rant that has nothing to do with reality. Come back to the world of reality and leave Ron Pauls delusional world.
@knight4justice NO you had me at you voted for McCain explained a lot Thank you for your Thoughts.We are no longer the strongest Nation in the World and unfortunately thinking that way will make us weaker and no we are not 13 colonies we are suppose to be 51 sovereign states, but with us loosing our rights daily we will not be that much longer. I feel for you when you see the truth that you are not willing to look at because it is to scarey to see. Wake up My Friend you could be!!
@Adair1979 who did you vote for in 2008? McCain, Obama, or third party?
Yes we are still the strongest nation in the world. We do have problems but our problems amount to very small problems compared to the rest of the world. Ron Paul and his cultists dont seem to understand that. u guys dont know the first thing about losing rights or a police state. u also dont have the courage to think it through because if you do think it through you will come to the conclusion that America is not evil
@knight4justice went on your militant site there Mr.Knight4justice I can tell what you are about and I am not willing to send my son's and daughter's over to a foreign country to die any longer and you little boy playing at your Military dream world I suggest that you enlist and put your mouth and war mongrel attitude to the real test and then we will see how you feel. And by the way freedom and liberty NEVER go out of style here no matter how many years have passed
@Adair1979 so you say freedom and liberty never go out of style here, yet you vote for the person who claims America is an evil military empire that is taking away our freedom. ROFL!!!!!! Nice contradiction.
How would you know whether or not I have joined the Army :) ? And what militant site did I go on? You have nothing to back what you are saying so all you do is small minded attacks. Typical Ron Paul cultist.
America is not losing rights. That is just fear mongering on the part of Ron Paul to push his libertarian agenda through. Wake up and think it through a little bit. America is not the evil country that Ron Paul tries to make it out to be. We are not a perfect country but America is a force for good in the world.
So the gist of the message (in particular, the examination of how people vote) is: democracy will also result in the scum rising to the top, and is therefore illegitimate, as is the state itself.
While certainly a good analysis, it's not new or original.
This "identity" tone of politics was predicted over 100 years ago as the inevitable result of female suffrage. And no, it's wasn't chauvinistic men saying this, it was WOMEN.
Hunter repeatedly says "people" which is true enough, but this word obscures the fact that the majority of voters are women. Many men see the futility and abstain.
No nation has endured 100 years of female suffrage. The US is on track to be no exception.
i would be considered a liberal, and i would vote for paul,,, if i knew for sure that he would do what he says,, and if i knew he would keep his religious views seperate from his policies
@xd1rtx Like any other candidate keeps their views (religious or otherwise) separate? Absurd!
Did you know for sure that Obama would do what he said? How is that working out for you?
Obama is pathetic and couldn't even keep his promises to his own party. Now you want to "know for sure that he (Paul) will do what he says" ? Double standard much? I would look you in the eye if I could and tell you that Ron Paul is THE LAST HOPE for America and even if he does win it still might not be enough.
no, you are pushing against an open door, you are right, ever since i have been voting, politicians have rarely if ever done what they said they are gonna do,, obama is a prime example of that, as far as keeping his religious views seperate, obama has done that, but he hasn't come thru on anything else he promised. i'm not sure voting for anyone is a good idea, i'm not convinced that paul isn't just another politician who talks a good game and then fuks up when he's in office.
"if i knew for sure that he would do what he says"
Please consider looking into his Congressional voting-record, he's always voted Constitutionally, please do that much so that you can make the best choice for the country, you'll find he's always "walked the walk"
"if i knew he would keep his religious views seperate from his policies"
Here's him saying "Constitution literally says no theocracy" - watch?v=rePrD-6nNdE#t=6m56
He consents to gay-marriage unlike religious zealots
Here's a poll for ronpaulforums - tinyurl(dot)com/3ur6pqy As you can see, HUGE chunk of Ron Paul's supporters are atheist/agnostic/non-religious (I'm agnostic myself). We're there because we've seen his Constitutional voting-record in Congress & he's never let his religion dictate the way he votes, only the Constiution.
And if you look thru that poll-thread, the debate isn't going on between "believers" & "non-believers" but it's the atheists & agnostics debating each other :)
sounds good, but i thaught obama sounded good as well, do i need to say more,,,, why are you voting at all? why do you believe that, if paul were to get elected, he wouldn't just bend over for corporate america? keep in mind, obama voted against the war before he became president, and well.....
That's why I said, please look up his voting-record in Congress, he's always been consistent & always voted constitutionally. When he first ran, people told him he can't win because he's anti-big-business & anti-subsidies but he ran & last year he got elected 12th time into Congress. Best way to judge a person is by where he gets his funds from. Look up his 2008 campaign, no big business funded him ; on the other hand Obama & McCain got big bucks from SAME companies. Research him.
Further, almost all of Ron's funds come from the grassroots, his whole campaign is driven by grassroots, that's why he wins all the straw polls & internet polls because for people that've looked into his record, the way he's conducted himself in Congress in itself speaks volumes for his integrity. That's why mainstream media always tries to marginalize him & call him "kook", "unelectable", etc because he threatens corporatism. A lot of predictions have come true - watch?v=ixZW9lffsJY
Don't mean to bombard you with comments but Ron Paul had said that Obama wouldn't deliver on his promise BEFORE obama had won. Here it is - watch?v=HUTYL8HfCGo
All it takes is a little research & it's pretty easy to see who's who & who's going to do what after they get elected. We can only judge people by their actions, not jsut by their words & that's what's Ron shows us he's different.
I'm a liberal, and I don't know any of these "Obama Democrats" Jack's referring to. The general sense I have is that most liberals are actually pretty disappointed in Obama for--well--not actually being very liberal, or, at least, having proven fairly ineffectual at pushing a liberal agenda. There's nothing liberal about illegal wars, The Patriot Act, or the mandated purchasing healthcare through private insurers.
Liberals feel abandoned by Obama. The US has no truly progressive, liberal party.
@ShaelRiley As a liberal, who do you like in 2012? You can name anyone...they don't have to be a current candidate. Just curious because most of my friends are Republicans and my democrat friends are "all in" with Mr. Obama.
@bull864 Well, like I said, America does not have a truly progressive party. So, my plan, shared by most of my friends, is to hold my nose and vote for Obama. There isn't anyone we like at all, so we're voting for the candidate we dislike the least.
@ShaelRiley Well, like I said, America does not have a truly progressive party. So, my plan, shared by most of my friends, is to hold my nose and vote for Obama. There isn't anyone we like at all, so we're voting for the candidate we dislike the least.
A very good analysis, much better than Thomas Woods open mockery of all Republican candidates except Ron Paul.
I do think people are changing their thinking and examining these issues more carefully these days. You saw this in the mid-term elections where candidates with NO personality but good principles got a large share of the vote, rather than well presented establishment Republicans.
Change is happening, although I'm not sure it's quick enough to turn this around and avoid dissaster...
You forgot to mention that he's pro-life & pro-family, defends the Church and has practical solutions for mitigating the damage government does to all three.
Jack this is one of my fav vids. I have for some time become critical of the way we elect our reps. It enhances the politics of identity by producing spoilers. Rather than plurality voting I'd rather see ranked choice. I think that would lead to less Identity and more toward philosophy. I hate choosing the lesser of two evils which is our current system. I'd much prefer IRV so could have ranked the likes of McCain & Graham just one tick higher than Obama.
@mrhulot101 Paul gets an F because folks misstate his policy. How does eliminating the birth right citizenship jive with an F grade. Or no more benefits for illegals? Anyone else closing those loopholes? Paul wants a constitutional amendment to eliminate birthright citizenship for children of non citizens. Hes held that position for years. Please don't put Paul and Palin in the same category.
@southernavenger The reason Identity Conservatives are mimicking Ron Paul's Philosophy; is so they can use it as a tool to muddy up the selection process. If they get enough sound bites sounding like Ron Paul with a smile they can achieve making him AND the issues effecting our lives irrelevant. And return Politics back to an American idol style selection system where substance is over looked and shallow bear choice and brand selection with bleached smiles win every time. We have to fight this.
The wingjob Dems and the left want to lower the bar and don't expect John Q Public to think critically....result of a defective educational system. Keep 'em busy with mindless TV programs, sex drugs and rock n roll, and LCD on media, print and electronic.
It hasn't happened accidentally...
Sadly, most new HS grads can barely string a few sentences together, let alone ponder what Burke, Locke, Hobbes, Founding Fathers, Sam Adams, JS Mill and others meant when they wrote in the 1600 and 1700s.
@bkuhar Most people don't even know who Locke, Adams, Smith, Burke, Hobbs, or Montesquieu are. "None are more helplessly enslaved than those who falsely believe that they are free." -- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
I believe you both should watch the video again because you seem confused. As far as your intellectual concerns about a candidate and their electability simply turn your attention to the president before Obama. Mr.Hunter is casting attention to the REAL paradigm in politics. Voters, in general, seem to vote for the candidates who have the greater image and not the greater philosophy. Of course image is not character as ones character is derived from ones philosophy.
This is crap... people can't stand Palin because she's dumb and not qualified to be in any office not because they're liberal.... who care's about someone's philosophy when they have the intellect of a 5th grader? The makers of this vid are expecting people to shut off their brains and vote for a dummy simply because they have a conservative philosophy
@soleprobe The makers of this vid don't like Palin, so even if she does have the intellect of a 5th grader how are they telling people to shut off their brains and vote for her? If anything can be taken from this commentary it is that Ron Paul supporters should try and focus not only on philosophy, but on identity in order to get Ron Paul elected, Palin is used as an example of someone who is praised, by those who praise her, because of identity and not philosophy
@reliberate1991 I would disagree, I would say that both sides of the spectrum focus on identity. The most obvious is Obama, where "Hope" and "change" were the rallying cries of the left even, when looking at his policy prescriptions when he was running, weren't much different then the actual policies of Bush (albeit the rhetoric was much different). Are we going to say Weiner was so popular in his district because of his philosopher status or because he liked to scream his points to people?
good analysis Jack. This is precisely why RP has little to no shot at winning. Virtually all politicians are handsome and eloquent speakers due to identity voting.
I disagree with the last statement you made, @southernavenger. "Philosophical conservatives shouldn't just mock the right's current identity crisis. They should be trying to commandeer and command it." From a strictly liberty based perspective, this is aggression, and is directly in opposition to the non-aggression principle.
We have to convince them of the position. We cannot command them to join liberty; it's an oxymoron.
@josda1000 If there is a crisis and you have the solution, you can command attention by showing people you have the correct answers. When the housing bubble burst and proved the Austrian school of thought correct, that forced people to pay closer attention to Austrian economics. When a woman dressed to kill walks into a room, all the men turn to stare at her because she commands attention through her presence alone. She doesn't need to order anyone to look at her, but people want to anyway.
In some way Paul could be making more difficult the possibilities of a real change by making people that want to change this fixed game(and that don’t fall for demagogues), play by the rules of the game, acting like an exhaust valve for indignation. We should concentrate on policies rather than politicians, only the people can save the people and by looking the brainwash machine that is mainstream media, the powerful know they dont have any clothes.
The idea of this article appears to be based from the premise that the candidates compete under the same conditions, which doesn’t happen. I think that if Paul gets the same airtime than other candidates on the market (politicians are being promoted the same way products are advertised) he would win. But sadly the presidential elections are no better than an auction…
Ah, but among his fans(who are well educated and principled to boot) Ron Paul is a rock star. A old fart like me would yell himself hoarse at one of his speeches as if I was at a Janis Joplin concert in my youth (hint at my age).
Excellent commentary. Most people select from an emotional, feel good perspective. The USA doesn't need a rock star president, it needs a Thomas Jefferson type who wasn't the best orator but possessed a tremendous intellect and wrote magnificently.
Jack Hunter is right, it is important to try and influence the identity conservatives with the philosophical truths. It becomes easier each day as things grow worse.
@wlogan1977 I'm wagering to guess that you've only watched a few of TYT's videos, because Cenk and his brainless cohorts did nothing but kiss Obama's ass up until about 10 months ago, and even now they are still apologizing for most of his policies.
If Cenk (aka Mr. Armenian Genocide denier) is a REAL Progressive, I'd hate to see what the Fascists look like. lol
@hellsunicorn Whose to say that the origin of Progressives was ever noble in the first place? The way I understand it, a progressive is rooted in the ideas of making progress. What they're progressing towards is a question not much ventured. Progress is merely the travel. Fascism may as well be the destination.
@Ovalshine You're basically right on this line of reasoning, I was mostly engaging in sarcasm in order to try and get wlogan's attention so hopefully he might get something in his head instead of on it, but that is arguably a lost cause if this guy is already ensnared in Cenk's rubbish.
@wlogan1977 I've seen enough of TYT to have serious issues with them with urge for curse words. All the same, glad you disapprove of Obama. Doubt our reasons are the same, but that's another bridge to cross.
@wlogan1977 I guess people here feel real strong about TYT. My point is real progressives do not like Obama just like they did not like Bush. In fact, it is for the same exact reasons progressives do not like Bush.
It is simply beyond me how the vast majority judge politicians based on their personality or demeanor. It is their philosophy that will most strongly affect the political climate. I judge almost entirely based on the philosophy of candidates. I care little about their demeanor or personal habits. I care about whether I agree with their policies. It is shocking that anyone could admire such a larcenous tyrant as Obama merely due to his charisma. He is one of the most dangerous presidents ever.
@mrtomsr Removing the D and R won't do it all Republicans and Democrats have millions of code words that lets everyone know what team they are on. We need to introduce some type of contract system. Where if the Majority who elects these people feel they have renigged on their campaign promises they get fired. They try to do it or they get fired.
Ron Paul supporters just repeat the same empty rhetoric like Obama supporters. Example is that we should pull out of the Middle East. That is NOT going to happen. The second we do that Iran will collapse Saudi Arabia and our gas prices will go to 12 dollars a gallon. Our country will not survive that. If anyone scrutinizes Ron Pauls policies rather than mindlessly repeating them, they would realize that his rhetoric is as empty as Obama's rhetoric.
knight4justice 5 months ago
@knight4justice The rhetoric isn't empty,but meaningful. It's true that our philosophy is simple. We believe in liberty and we believe in staying out of other people's business. As for intervening in the Middle East,we believe that the dangers we are facing overseas are blowback from our intervening in other people's affairs. That is certainly true with Iran which is only a problem for us because we over threw their democratically elected government in 1953,replacing it with a viscious despot.
sleedolfine15 5 months ago
@sleedolfine15 - No. A lot of what Ron Paul supports say is meaningless.
Disagree with Ron Paul and you are NEOCON!!!111
It's fucking annoying. Neocon to the Ronulist is like Racism to the Obamunist.
thomaserossi 3 months ago
@thomaserossi I too find the term neocon annoying. However,Ron Paul's rhetoric is hardly meaningless unless,of course,you believe freedom is meaningless. How is the rhetoric of a man meaningless when that man predicted decades ago our present economic collaspe? How is it meaningless when he consistently defend us from the wars our leaders promote and other unconstitutional power grabs such as the Patriot's Acts? He is the most meaningful & principled man to seek the presidency since Cleveland.
sleedolfine15 3 months ago
@knight4justice We do scrutinizes his policies. What are you going to do when our economy can no longer support a Military Empire that is spread through out the World and we can not bring our troops home leaving our boarders unprotected. Then the middle east will do what ever they our going to do and it won't matter that we are there. I would rather be able to protect myself , my country and boarders than to spread my protection worrying about another country's policies.
Adair1979 3 months ago
@Adair1979 It will matter that we arent there because if we pull out of Saudi Arabia the Saudi Monarchy will collapse. The most extreme form of Islam is in Saudi Arabia and they will take control of Saudi Arabia (remember 15 of the 19 9/11 hijackers and OBL were Saudi). Once the Saudi Monarchy collapses we will lose a major source of our oil and our oil prices will go to $10 a gallon. Our fragile economy wont survive that. We cant pull out of the Middle East.
knight4justice 2 months ago
@knight4justice The problem being that you have not been paying attention to, is the way we are going we are going to collapse economically and won't be able to control the Saudi Monarchy anymore and what ever may come in the middle east will come anyway and when America can no longer bully there way around the world and we extend our hand out for support do you really think we will get any????????
Adair1979 2 months ago
@Adair1979 We arent bullying the Saudi's and we arent controlling them. In 1945 we made an agreement with Saudi Arabia, we will give them military protection if they give us oil and we agreed to have our oil companies split the money 50/50. We made a legitimate treaty and a legitimate trade agreement that both sides agreed to. How is that bullying and controlling? You have been listening to way too much Ron Paul propaganda. Ron Paul doesnt even know the basic facts of the Middle East.
knight4justice 2 months ago
@knight4justice Harmony liberal intercourse with all nations are recommened by policy,humanity and interest.But even our commercial policy should hold an equal and impartial hand,neither Seeking nor Granting exculsive favors or perferences,consulting the natural course of things,diffusing and diversifying by gentle means the streams of commerce, but forcing nothing,establishing(with powers so disposed,in order to give trade a stable course, to define the rights of merchants,and to enable
Adair1979 2 months ago
@Adair1979 government to support them) conventional rules of intercourse,the best that present circumstances and mutual opinion will permit , but temporary and liable to be from time to time abandoned or varied, as experience and circumstances shall dictate,constantly keeping in view that it is folly in one nation to look for disinterested favor from another, that it must pay with portion of independence for whatever it may accept under that character, that by such acceptance, it may place
Adair1979 2 months ago
@Adair1979 itself in the condition of having givin equivalents for nominal favors, and yet of being reproached with ingratitude for not giving more. There can be no greater ERROR than to expect or calculate upon real favors Nation to Nation. It is an illusion,which experience must care, which pride ought to discard. I know by your remarks you would not vote for this President, because he believes as Ron Paul does GEORGE WASHINGTON. If you had voted then we may not even be America
Adair1979 2 months ago
@Adair1979 if the Saudi Monarchy backs out of their end of the deal then their monarchy is going to be overthrown. So yes we can calculate favors from nation to nation. Ur entire delusional rant is based on a fallacy. Get back to reality.
I voted for McCain in 2008 and Huckabee in the primaries. Now I am supporting Bachmann. Before you go into that America might not exist if I voted, maybe you should know something about the person.
knight4justice 2 months ago
@Adair1979 I know this may be a major surprise for you. But diplomacy has changed for America in 230 years. We are no longer 13 colonies. We are the worlds strongest country and the country that has millions of people coming to it looking for freedom every year.
You would give Ron Paul credit for signing the Declaration of Indepence and signing the Constitution if you could.
knight4justice 2 months ago
@Adair1979 Yes America will get support. Saying whatever happens in the Middle East is going to happen whether we are there or not is like saying we are going to go bankrupt no matter what we do, therefore we should just give up here in America.
We dont bully our way around the world. If America is so evil, can you explain to me why millions of immigrants from all over the world come to America every year and why so many countries come to America for aid when they are in need?
knight4justice 2 months ago
@knight4justice it may place itself in the condition of having given equivalents for nominal favors, and yet of being reproached with ingratitude for not giving more. There can be no greater error than to expect or calculate upon real favors from nation to nation. It is an illusion, which experience must cure, which a just pride ought to discard.
Adair1979 2 months ago
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@Adair1979 what are you trying to say in your last comment? It seems like you dont have any facts to back up what you are saying so you are trying to get into some philosophical rant that has nothing to do with reality. Come back to the world of reality and leave Ron Pauls delusional world.
knight4justice 2 months ago
@knight4justice NO you had me at you voted for McCain explained a lot Thank you for your Thoughts.We are no longer the strongest Nation in the World and unfortunately thinking that way will make us weaker and no we are not 13 colonies we are suppose to be 51 sovereign states, but with us loosing our rights daily we will not be that much longer. I feel for you when you see the truth that you are not willing to look at because it is to scarey to see. Wake up My Friend you could be!!
Adair1979 2 months ago
@Adair1979 who did you vote for in 2008? McCain, Obama, or third party?
Yes we are still the strongest nation in the world. We do have problems but our problems amount to very small problems compared to the rest of the world. Ron Paul and his cultists dont seem to understand that. u guys dont know the first thing about losing rights or a police state. u also dont have the courage to think it through because if you do think it through you will come to the conclusion that America is not evil
knight4justice 2 months ago
@knight4justice went on your militant site there Mr.Knight4justice I can tell what you are about and I am not willing to send my son's and daughter's over to a foreign country to die any longer and you little boy playing at your Military dream world I suggest that you enlist and put your mouth and war mongrel attitude to the real test and then we will see how you feel. And by the way freedom and liberty NEVER go out of style here no matter how many years have passed
Adair1979 2 months ago
@Adair1979 so you say freedom and liberty never go out of style here, yet you vote for the person who claims America is an evil military empire that is taking away our freedom. ROFL!!!!!! Nice contradiction.
How would you know whether or not I have joined the Army :) ? And what militant site did I go on? You have nothing to back what you are saying so all you do is small minded attacks. Typical Ron Paul cultist.
knight4justice 2 months ago
@Adair1979 This is losing rights
watch?v=4TYi4vizQbM&feature=channel_video_title
America is not losing rights. That is just fear mongering on the part of Ron Paul to push his libertarian agenda through. Wake up and think it through a little bit. America is not the evil country that Ron Paul tries to make it out to be. We are not a perfect country but America is a force for good in the world.
knight4justice 2 months ago
<<<<<<<<<<Driven by philosophy, Ron Paul2012
JustinFrom1776 7 months ago
So the gist of the message (in particular, the examination of how people vote) is: democracy will also result in the scum rising to the top, and is therefore illegitimate, as is the state itself.
TheLegalImmigrant05 8 months ago
This was a really good video. Love the comparissons.
Starpilot17 8 months ago
Another excellent commentary by Jack. Gotta love this guy.
TulliusVII 8 months ago
I'll take Ron Paul for 2012 Alex.
XPIOLT 8 months ago
While certainly a good analysis, it's not new or original.
This "identity" tone of politics was predicted over 100 years ago as the inevitable result of female suffrage. And no, it's wasn't chauvinistic men saying this, it was WOMEN.
Hunter repeatedly says "people" which is true enough, but this word obscures the fact that the majority of voters are women. Many men see the futility and abstain.
No nation has endured 100 years of female suffrage. The US is on track to be no exception.
Eincrou 8 months ago
You've got a beautiful mind, Jack!
Brownyman 8 months ago
i would be considered a liberal, and i would vote for paul,,, if i knew for sure that he would do what he says,, and if i knew he would keep his religious views seperate from his policies
xd1rtx 8 months ago
@xd1rtx Like any other candidate keeps their views (religious or otherwise) separate? Absurd!
Did you know for sure that Obama would do what he said? How is that working out for you?
Obama is pathetic and couldn't even keep his promises to his own party. Now you want to "know for sure that he (Paul) will do what he says" ? Double standard much? I would look you in the eye if I could and tell you that Ron Paul is THE LAST HOPE for America and even if he does win it still might not be enough.
remyllebeau77 8 months ago
@remyllebeau77
no, you are pushing against an open door, you are right, ever since i have been voting, politicians have rarely if ever done what they said they are gonna do,, obama is a prime example of that, as far as keeping his religious views seperate, obama has done that, but he hasn't come thru on anything else he promised. i'm not sure voting for anyone is a good idea, i'm not convinced that paul isn't just another politician who talks a good game and then fuks up when he's in office.
xd1rtx 8 months ago
@xd1rtx Then look at Ron Paul's record, it speaks for itself.
remyllebeau77 7 months ago
@xd1rtx
"if i knew for sure that he would do what he says"
Please consider looking into his Congressional voting-record, he's always voted Constitutionally, please do that much so that you can make the best choice for the country, you'll find he's always "walked the walk"
"if i knew he would keep his religious views seperate from his policies"
Here's him saying "Constitution literally says no theocracy" - watch?v=rePrD-6nNdE#t=6m56
He consents to gay-marriage unlike religious zealots
lomocan 8 months ago
@xd1rtx
Here's a poll for ronpaulforums - tinyurl(dot)com/3ur6pqy As you can see, HUGE chunk of Ron Paul's supporters are atheist/agnostic/non-religious (I'm agnostic myself). We're there because we've seen his Constitutional voting-record in Congress & he's never let his religion dictate the way he votes, only the Constiution.
And if you look thru that poll-thread, the debate isn't going on between "believers" & "non-believers" but it's the atheists & agnostics debating each other :)
lomocan 8 months ago
@lomocan
sounds good, but i thaught obama sounded good as well, do i need to say more,,,, why are you voting at all? why do you believe that, if paul were to get elected, he wouldn't just bend over for corporate america? keep in mind, obama voted against the war before he became president, and well.....
xd1rtx 8 months ago
@xd1rtx
That's why I said, please look up his voting-record in Congress, he's always been consistent & always voted constitutionally. When he first ran, people told him he can't win because he's anti-big-business & anti-subsidies but he ran & last year he got elected 12th time into Congress. Best way to judge a person is by where he gets his funds from. Look up his 2008 campaign, no big business funded him ; on the other hand Obama & McCain got big bucks from SAME companies. Research him.
lomocan 8 months ago
@xd1rtx
Further, almost all of Ron's funds come from the grassroots, his whole campaign is driven by grassroots, that's why he wins all the straw polls & internet polls because for people that've looked into his record, the way he's conducted himself in Congress in itself speaks volumes for his integrity. That's why mainstream media always tries to marginalize him & call him "kook", "unelectable", etc because he threatens corporatism. A lot of predictions have come true - watch?v=ixZW9lffsJY
lomocan 8 months ago
@xd1rtx
Don't mean to bombard you with comments but Ron Paul had said that Obama wouldn't deliver on his promise BEFORE obama had won. Here it is - watch?v=HUTYL8HfCGo
All it takes is a little research & it's pretty easy to see who's who & who's going to do what after they get elected. We can only judge people by their actions, not jsut by their words & that's what's Ron shows us he's different.
lomocan 8 months ago
I'm a liberal, and I don't know any of these "Obama Democrats" Jack's referring to. The general sense I have is that most liberals are actually pretty disappointed in Obama for--well--not actually being very liberal, or, at least, having proven fairly ineffectual at pushing a liberal agenda. There's nothing liberal about illegal wars, The Patriot Act, or the mandated purchasing healthcare through private insurers.
Liberals feel abandoned by Obama. The US has no truly progressive, liberal party.
ShaelRiley 8 months ago
@ShaelRiley As a liberal, who do you like in 2012? You can name anyone...they don't have to be a current candidate. Just curious because most of my friends are Republicans and my democrat friends are "all in" with Mr. Obama.
bull864 8 months ago
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@bull864 Well, like I said, America does not have a truly progressive party. So, my plan, shared by most of my friends, is to hold my nose and vote for Obama. There isn't anyone we like at all, so we're voting for the candidate we dislike the least.
ShaelRiley 8 months ago
@ShaelRiley Well, like I said, America does not have a truly progressive party. So, my plan, shared by most of my friends, is to hold my nose and vote for Obama. There isn't anyone we like at all, so we're voting for the candidate we dislike the least.
ShaelRiley 8 months ago
A very good analysis, much better than Thomas Woods open mockery of all Republican candidates except Ron Paul.
I do think people are changing their thinking and examining these issues more carefully these days. You saw this in the mid-term elections where candidates with NO personality but good principles got a large share of the vote, rather than well presented establishment Republicans.
Change is happening, although I'm not sure it's quick enough to turn this around and avoid dissaster...
LibertyDownUnder 8 months ago
They are dumb. Most people are.
Visfen 8 months ago
BEST ONE YET!!!
thepatriotsheepdog 8 months ago
Another Great video, wow. Thank you SA
scikoolaid 8 months ago
You forgot to mention that he's pro-life & pro-family, defends the Church and has practical solutions for mitigating the damage government does to all three.
christianpatriot125 8 months ago
Jack this is one of my fav vids. I have for some time become critical of the way we elect our reps. It enhances the politics of identity by producing spoilers. Rather than plurality voting I'd rather see ranked choice. I think that would lead to less Identity and more toward philosophy. I hate choosing the lesser of two evils which is our current system. I'd much prefer IRV so could have ranked the likes of McCain & Graham just one tick higher than Obama.
vipero00 8 months ago
Both palin and paul share an F grade on immigration voting from Numbersusa
when times get tough people will ignore identity and vote philosophical, who will get their jobs back and the economy going.
cheerleading massive immigration in the midst of massive unemployment does not create more jobs
mrhulot101 8 months ago
@mrhulot101 Paul gets an F because folks misstate his policy. How does eliminating the birth right citizenship jive with an F grade. Or no more benefits for illegals? Anyone else closing those loopholes? Paul wants a constitutional amendment to eliminate birthright citizenship for children of non citizens. Hes held that position for years. Please don't put Paul and Palin in the same category.
vipero00 8 months ago
Well Said Jack. Now if only Dr. Paul takes your advice on taking the command.
shiftstart 8 months ago
@southernavenger The reason Identity Conservatives are mimicking Ron Paul's Philosophy; is so they can use it as a tool to muddy up the selection process. If they get enough sound bites sounding like Ron Paul with a smile they can achieve making him AND the issues effecting our lives irrelevant. And return Politics back to an American idol style selection system where substance is over looked and shallow bear choice and brand selection with bleached smiles win every time. We have to fight this.
JRMCNEA 8 months ago
Thank you Jack. Excellent video as always.
TheDarkCount 8 months ago
The wingjob Dems and the left want to lower the bar and don't expect John Q Public to think critically....result of a defective educational system. Keep 'em busy with mindless TV programs, sex drugs and rock n roll, and LCD on media, print and electronic.
It hasn't happened accidentally...
Sadly, most new HS grads can barely string a few sentences together, let alone ponder what Burke, Locke, Hobbes, Founding Fathers, Sam Adams, JS Mill and others meant when they wrote in the 1600 and 1700s.
bkuhar 8 months ago
@bkuhar Most people don't even know who Locke, Adams, Smith, Burke, Hobbs, or Montesquieu are. "None are more helplessly enslaved than those who falsely believe that they are free." -- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
residentzombie 8 months ago
I have never heard anyone make fun of Palin's accent. It's her folksy mannerisms and her golly-gee way of speaking that drives people up the walls.
therealaj123 8 months ago
Ron Paul 2012 for obvious philosophical reasons.
ladalang 8 months ago 2
@soleprobe & SpideyNinety08
I believe you both should watch the video again because you seem confused. As far as your intellectual concerns about a candidate and their electability simply turn your attention to the president before Obama. Mr.Hunter is casting attention to the REAL paradigm in politics. Voters, in general, seem to vote for the candidates who have the greater image and not the greater philosophy. Of course image is not character as ones character is derived from ones philosophy.
shawnoel 8 months ago
This is crap... people can't stand Palin because she's dumb and not qualified to be in any office not because they're liberal.... who care's about someone's philosophy when they have the intellect of a 5th grader? The makers of this vid are expecting people to shut off their brains and vote for a dummy simply because they have a conservative philosophy
soleprobe 8 months ago
@soleprobe The makers of this vid don't like Palin, so even if she does have the intellect of a 5th grader how are they telling people to shut off their brains and vote for her? If anything can be taken from this commentary it is that Ron Paul supporters should try and focus not only on philosophy, but on identity in order to get Ron Paul elected, Palin is used as an example of someone who is praised, by those who praise her, because of identity and not philosophy
SpideyNinety08 8 months ago
@SpideyNinety08 Focus on identity when marketing to conservatives, focus on philosophy when marketing to liberals
reliberate1991 8 months ago
@reliberate1991 I would disagree, I would say that both sides of the spectrum focus on identity. The most obvious is Obama, where "Hope" and "change" were the rallying cries of the left even, when looking at his policy prescriptions when he was running, weren't much different then the actual policies of Bush (albeit the rhetoric was much different). Are we going to say Weiner was so popular in his district because of his philosopher status or because he liked to scream his points to people?
SpideyNinety08 8 months ago
@SpideyNinety08 Oh I agree. But if you're trying to convince people to vote for a Republican, that would probably be the best way to go about it.
reliberate1991 8 months ago
Are you now contractually obligated to go by your real name?
jmorris724 8 months ago
madly in love with the package? no need to bring anthony weiner into this, Jack.
jmorris724 8 months ago
Political advancement first requires understanding how voters don't think.
Voy2378 8 months ago
good analysis Jack. This is precisely why RP has little to no shot at winning. Virtually all politicians are handsome and eloquent speakers due to identity voting.
Fermion5 8 months ago
Thanks Jack, I really needed this today!
RepGlenBradley 8 months ago
I disagree with the last statement you made, @southernavenger. "Philosophical conservatives shouldn't just mock the right's current identity crisis. They should be trying to commandeer and command it." From a strictly liberty based perspective, this is aggression, and is directly in opposition to the non-aggression principle.
We have to convince them of the position. We cannot command them to join liberty; it's an oxymoron.
josda1000 8 months ago
@josda1000 If there is a crisis and you have the solution, you can command attention by showing people you have the correct answers. When the housing bubble burst and proved the Austrian school of thought correct, that forced people to pay closer attention to Austrian economics. When a woman dressed to kill walks into a room, all the men turn to stare at her because she commands attention through her presence alone. She doesn't need to order anyone to look at her, but people want to anyway.
ytmikelol 8 months ago
@ytmikelol well said, and agreed.
josda1000 8 months ago
I just came back to see?Where is my video response?LOL!
DEADPATRIOT1 8 months ago
As usual, you're spot-on, Jack.
thedemoboy 8 months ago 2
I thought you said tit-bits when talking about Palin.
DrinkingWithTim 8 months ago
We need a Paulitician, not a politician.
MagnusIan 8 months ago
good vid!
sharinganclan213 8 months ago
I fear that if Ron Paul got the GOP nomination and somehow won the election he would be a target for the for the powers at be and taken out like JFK.
nbenicewicz 8 months ago
In some way Paul could be making more difficult the possibilities of a real change by making people that want to change this fixed game(and that don’t fall for demagogues), play by the rules of the game, acting like an exhaust valve for indignation. We should concentrate on policies rather than politicians, only the people can save the people and by looking the brainwash machine that is mainstream media, the powerful know they dont have any clothes.
luijoc 8 months ago
The idea of this article appears to be based from the premise that the candidates compete under the same conditions, which doesn’t happen. I think that if Paul gets the same airtime than other candidates on the market (politicians are being promoted the same way products are advertised) he would win. But sadly the presidential elections are no better than an auction…
luijoc 8 months ago
Ah, but among his fans(who are well educated and principled to boot) Ron Paul is a rock star. A old fart like me would yell himself hoarse at one of his speeches as if I was at a Janis Joplin concert in my youth (hint at my age).
elricmlbone 8 months ago 2
Excellent commentary. Most people select from an emotional, feel good perspective. The USA doesn't need a rock star president, it needs a Thomas Jefferson type who wasn't the best orator but possessed a tremendous intellect and wrote magnificently.
Jack Hunter is right, it is important to try and influence the identity conservatives with the philosophical truths. It becomes easier each day as things grow worse.
resurgam7 8 months ago
I am a progressive and I say Fuck Obama. Watch a few TYT epsiodes and see how other real progressives feel about the president.
wlogan1977 8 months ago
@wlogan1977 TYT! I'd rather gouge my eyes out with a burning stake. No thank you sir
TheTrueConservative 8 months ago 4
@wlogan1977 Unbelievable...
fringeelements 8 months ago
@wlogan1977
What is a Progressive Liberal? And if they are anything like the TheYoungTurds, God help us all....
b07rivera 8 months ago 2
@wlogan1977 I'm wagering to guess that you've only watched a few of TYT's videos, because Cenk and his brainless cohorts did nothing but kiss Obama's ass up until about 10 months ago, and even now they are still apologizing for most of his policies.
If Cenk (aka Mr. Armenian Genocide denier) is a REAL Progressive, I'd hate to see what the Fascists look like. lol
hellsunicorn 8 months ago
@hellsunicorn Whose to say that the origin of Progressives was ever noble in the first place? The way I understand it, a progressive is rooted in the ideas of making progress. What they're progressing towards is a question not much ventured. Progress is merely the travel. Fascism may as well be the destination.
Ovalshine 8 months ago
@Ovalshine You're basically right on this line of reasoning, I was mostly engaging in sarcasm in order to try and get wlogan's attention so hopefully he might get something in his head instead of on it, but that is arguably a lost cause if this guy is already ensnared in Cenk's rubbish.
hellsunicorn 8 months ago
Comment removed
sharinganclan213 8 months ago
@hellsunicorn omg, I cannot stand that piece of shit turk. He fucking covers the USA flag with the words "The young turks"
those guys killed my great grandparents. Fuck them and fuck Cenk.
sharinganclan213 8 months ago 2
@wlogan1977 TYT is terrible and full of half truth BS.
19TEC85 8 months ago 6
@wlogan1977 I've seen enough of TYT to have serious issues with them with urge for curse words. All the same, glad you disapprove of Obama. Doubt our reasons are the same, but that's another bridge to cross.
Ovalshine 8 months ago
@wlogan1977 I guess people here feel real strong about TYT. My point is real progressives do not like Obama just like they did not like Bush. In fact, it is for the same exact reasons progressives do not like Bush.
wlogan1977 8 months ago
My girlfriend is fairly conservative (for not being involved or kept abreast of politics) and she hates both Palin and Bachman…
nicodemous52 8 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Ron Paul 2012!
UltraConservative298 8 months ago 3
It is simply beyond me how the vast majority judge politicians based on their personality or demeanor. It is their philosophy that will most strongly affect the political climate. I judge almost entirely based on the philosophy of candidates. I care little about their demeanor or personal habits. I care about whether I agree with their policies. It is shocking that anyone could admire such a larcenous tyrant as Obama merely due to his charisma. He is one of the most dangerous presidents ever.
UltraConservative298 8 months ago
That is the problem with Paul. He has next to no charisma and comes off as unfriendly and distant. I respect Paul 100% on his ideas
Drac39 8 months ago
I love you Jack but do you really frequent Michael Weiner's radio show? A bigger undercover neocon you will never find.
zeroeffects88 8 months ago
RON PAUL 2012 OR WERE IN TROUBLE
tonyteb 8 months ago 70
@tonyteb No, Ron Paul 2012 or we secede
NCIcaucus 8 months ago 2
@NCIcaucus LOL YES!
thedemoboy 8 months ago
Take away the D or R and suddenly you have to become engaged in order to know who to vote for. Another great video.
mrtomsr 8 months ago 58
@mrtomsr
Too true. If only Washington's wishes to prevent the government being separated into political parties had stayed with us.
ChivKnight 8 months ago
@mrtomsr Removing the D and R won't do it all Republicans and Democrats have millions of code words that lets everyone know what team they are on. We need to introduce some type of contract system. Where if the Majority who elects these people feel they have renigged on their campaign promises they get fired. They try to do it or they get fired.
JRMCNEA 8 months ago