Responding to Debate w Jehovah's Witnesses#1 False Prophecies

[TheScrewedGeneration]

By the way, you never answered my last comment on James the preacher's video.

[TheScrewedGeneration]

Did the apostles or Luther name dates and cause their followers to put all their faith in that event? The Watchtower did. Especialy in the May 15 1984 Wt on pages 6 & 7 where they state: "Jehovah's prophetic word through Christ Jesus is: This generation of 1914 will by no means pass away untill all things occur". At that time they were teaching that the generation was a litteral one that had witnessed the first world war.

[MuscleMaxZ1]

furthermore, where were jehovah's true people when the bible books were canonized...were they secretly part of the whore of babylon catholic church etc., the ones who decided which books were to be included in the bible? Also, how does the WT make sense of it's self-appointment to Mat. 24:45-47?

[MuscleMaxZ1]

of course the verses in John are going to be more ambiguous about jesus' return, since John was written many years after the synoptics which were stating that jesus would return within the apostle's lifetimes.  Reminds me of the many changes in WT "understanding" of generation.

[wight69star]

*** kj chap. 4 pp. 58-59 par. 10 Commissioned to Speak in the Divine Name ***

who is the Creator of this modern “Ezekiel.” Who, then, are the group of persons who, toward the beginning of this “time of the end,” were commissioned to serve as the mouthpiece and active agent of Jehovah? In order to determine this, check the history of 1919, the first postwar year after the first world war.

[wight69star]

*** kj chap. 4 p. 61 par. 16 Commissioned to Speak in the Divine Name ***

Whom could the real “chariot” of Jehovah’s organization roll up to and confront that He might bestow upon this qualified one the commission to speak as a prophet in the name of Jehovah?

who are they?

17 They were a small minority group of men and women who had dedicated themselves to Jehovah as God by following in the footsteps of his Son Jesus Christ.

[wight69star]

There is either a true prophet or a false prophet, inspired prophet is that god is using that prophet, a non-inspired prophet is one that god is not using, the watchtower has claimed to a prophet and has spoken in gods name hence inspired or non-inspired they are false prophets.

[acerimmeh]

Great to see you posting videos again bro :-)

[raqyrose]

I will pray to Jehovah God to forgive all of your sins. That is all I have to say. Peace!

[raqyrose]

These people on here that r oppose to da Watchtower Society and JW's,they can't find any peace to themselves, all they do is ridicule. Why won't YOU read 2 Peter 3:3 and continue on reading and get some sense of it. Even if the WT had some misunderstanding on the scriptures as far as prophecy(the end), that doesn't mean they don't speak the truth or don't have the truth.They may had made mistakes in the past but they don't continue on proclaiming that. The past is past, we(JWs) moved on.

[thehappyfreethinker]

@dubouttaExile Hi, I watched this video, and I'm confused. If someone claimed to be commissioned to speak in the name of Jehovah as a prophet, wouldn't that mean they had to be inspired if their claim was true? And if they spoke in the name of Jehovah, and what they said didn't come true, that's exactly what deuteronomy was talking about, right?

[timo092601]

@thehappyfreethinker JW's base their beliefs on the inspired Word of God, " His Word is truth" said Jesus Christ himself. However, they do believe that the modern day congregation is being guided by Jesus as He said & they use God's Word to light the path as He instructed his followers to do. However, Jesus said, "by this all will know you are my disciples, if you have LOVE among yourselves." The issue of prophecy was not indicated at all as evidence by our King.

[timo092601]

@timo092601 So in other words, this argument is mute.

[winstong2000]

I'm confused. Isn't there a book called "The Nations Shall KNOW I am Jehovah-How?" Doesn't this book claim that jws have been given the authority to make prophecies in the name of Jehovah? Isn't there an entire chapter on this very subject? Am I missing something? What's the difference with jws and Harold Camping and his fake predictions?

[gauleygirl2000]

@winstong2000 their purpose IS to fulfill bible prophecy. These false date setters WT, Camping and the like help increase the amount of scoffers who then say "Where is the promise of His coming"

[timo092601]

@winstong2000 No it does not.....READ IT.....there is no claims to prophecies by JW's....but the Bible interprets itself.....compare and see that it is God's Word of truth as Jesus taught. Then all this bickering goes away because it's useless....the LOVE they show is on record as witnessed by the world on occasions that they have shown it...that is all the proof anyone needs to see they are in fact God's people...."a people for his Name" - Isaiah 43: 10-12.

[winstong2000]

@timo092601 if the bible interprets itself,why in that same book does it say the end will come between 1971-2000? In that book they claim to have been given the authority to be Jehovah's mouthpiece,a modern day Ezekiel and that they are true profits because of their track record Where is any of that in the bible? Where is 1875 1899 1914 1915 1925 1975 in the bible? Am I missing something? Please help me understand this better.

[anissueofursincerity]

@dubouttaExile

Yes the WT spoke all those false predictions in Jehovah's name. They took the name Jehovah's Witnesses, & they taught the predictions as truth, not as interesting speculations. Deut.18 is a command from God to shrink away from the WT corporations; it describes what they have done.

[gauleygirl2000]

oh my goodness.... ive said it before, its like trying to nail jello to a wall with these people.... trying to get the truth out of them concerning the GB being the "inspired" mouthpiece of Jehovah is like listening to Bill Clintons infamous ""It depends upon what the meaning of the word 'is' is

[DefendingYHWH]

@gauleygirl2000 Can you reference where they made the claim "inspired" mouthpiece of Jehovah? The would be helpful instead of YOU venting how you feel about JW's.

[anissueofursincerity]

@DefendingYHWH Mouthpiece is enough. It works without their having to state "inspired"; that is only one word.

[DefendingYHWH]

@anissueofursincerity Mouthpiece is enough for YOU but in a court setting. Your evidence is lacking, so I guess you can't produce the evidence that claim you had.

[anissueofursincerity]

@DefendingYHWH You can claim that all you want. You r twisting urself into a pretzel to keep ur eyes from the obvious. The WT plays it both ways. The leadership claims divine authority on earth while playing games with words to evade accountability for dealing with information that tends to prove they are only men like you and me with no divine authority in evidence at all.

[DefendingYHWH]

@anissueofursincerity I don't care what these men claim to be whether anointed or not that's not my place say, but you lack showing evidence that they claim to be inspired prophets.

[anissueofursincerity]

@DefendingYHWH

They as a body claim to be a prophet.

They do claim to be annointed by holy spirit as the were the 1st C.christian church.

Although there is not and has never been any evidence for either.

They claim to be God's sole channel on earth appointed by Jesus Christ himself.= in 1919.. There is no evidence for that either.

[anissueofursincerity]

@DefendingYHWH

Deuteronomy 18 doesn't say 'inspired'. You put that in there

However as we have established, the 1st C. christians in Acts (although the word 'prophet' is not there) WERE inspired, they were filled with it (the Spirit), and the WT leaders claim they are annointed in the same way as the 1st C. christians were . It's right there plain as day

[DefendingYHWH]

@anissueofursincerity read the context in vs 18. Would you agree the one who Jehovah put words in his mouth is inspired? This contrast vs 20-22 the one who claims Jehovah put words in his mouth but is a false prophet.

[anissueofursincerity]

@DefendingYHWH

I would agree that anyone who claims to be Jehovah's channel (esp His one & only channel) on earth who foretells falsely is a false prophet.

[DefendingYHWH]

@anissueofursincerity ok fair enough that is your opinion, not factual.

[anissueofursincerity]

@DefendingYHWH

I provide facts.

While u inserted additional qualifiers into scripture.

[DefendingYHWH]

@anissueofursincerity You THINK you produced facts, but the fact of the matter is you didn't. Read back throuch our comments and there you'll see failed.

[anissueofursincerity]

I am human and subject to failure, but what I did succeed at showing is that a prophet period without qualifiers who makes false predictions is a false prophet.

[DefendingYHWH]

@anissueofursincerity Just show me a publication where they claim Jehovah inspired them to prophecy then well be good, until then you have not proved your case. I'll be waiing for this evidence.

[anissueofursincerity]

@DefendingYHWH

Am I misunderstanding WT doctrine when I say they teach they are God's sole channel?, Jehovah's spirit directed organization?, chosen directly by Jesus Christ himself in 1919?, a prophet? anointed (in the manner of the disciples of the 1st c.)?

[anissueofursincerity]

@gauleygirl2000

Or like it says in the Proverbs, like picking up oil with your fingers LOL They play it both ways. They are a prophet, Jesus directly chose them, and they are spirit directed, and they are God's channel--His sole channel, but they are not inspired and hence immune to scriptural prohibitions to shrink away from false prophets. It more a psychiatric discussion than a biblical/theological one.

[DefendingYHWH]

@anissueofursincerity can you show me a publication where they claim to be inspired and infallible, that would be soooo helpful until then your just typing nonesense

[anissueofursincerity]

@DefendingYHWH They have it both ways.They say We never claimed to be infalible & such statements while concurrently claiming they were personally chosen by King Jesus in 1919 to be Gods sole channel on earth, His Spirit directed organization, & uu know this unless u are prepared to tell me Jesus did not choose them & they are not Jehovah's spirit directed org. In particular the recent assemblies taught the authority of the GB today equates with apostolic authority in the 1st C.

[DefendingYHWH]

@anissueofursincerity so you can't reference anything showing they were inspired huh?

[anissueofursincerity]

@DefendingYHWH I just did in my above remarks. WT doctrine teaches the GB/WT leadership is annointed as the 1st c. christians were. And how was that. Acts 2 says they were FILLED with the Holy Spirit. The Spirit was IN them. That is IN spired

[4thefaithful]

@DefendingYHWH Yes I can. This is a claim of inspiration by the WT:

"He then went on to show that God’s true INSPIRED expressions were coming through the GENUINE CHRISTIAN CONGREGATION, not through unchristian worldly sources." Insight 1 p 1207 (under Inspiration)

"Yes! GENUINE Christians are now being gathered into a united brotherhood earth wide. Who are they? They are the CHRISTIAN CONGREGATION of Jehovah’s Witnesses" WT 7/1/94 p 7

[stonooblivion]

wait... I thought Jw's where not supposed to get involved in things like You Tube....

[DefendingYHWH]

@stonooblivion This is prove that the WT doesn’t run JW’s life. We’re all individuals

[Danmera]

@stonooblivion They aren't, and you will find most hide their identity. They claim to have freedom to make up their own minds, yet have to hide from anyone who may turn them in.

[urinfamousr79]

the real issue arrises when anyone who is a JW disagrees with the anoited(Governing bodies) view or interpretation of scripture whether it be prophey or not and then shun or expel said individual. they may not SAY we are inspired but their teachings must be viewed as inspired. the point you bring up about the apostles thinking John and that this spread to others doesnt draw upon the fact that the apostles didnt REQUIRE other to believe this or be removed or censured among the congregation.

[anissueofursincerity]

@urinfamousr79

Yes that is true. The WT is more understanding toward members who are sex offenders than toward those who disagree with the opinions of the governing body.

You are correct about the John reference. And the NT clarifies it is later they can be considered inspired, when Jesus sent the holy spirit to them.

[DefendingYHWH]

@anissueofursincerity Jesus did not say those with HS would be inspired "But the helper, the holy spirit, which the Father will send in my name, that one will teach YOU all things and bring back to YOUR minds all the things I told YOU". The HS helps with many things but no where does the bible say HS will make you an inspired prophet.

[anissueofursincerity]

@DefendingYHWH No. The spirit entered into them. "they became FILLED with holy spirit". Acts 2 backs this up. T'was you who made the John reference to their possible different ideas how it didn't make them false prophets and my response was to point you to the fact whether you call them prophets or not they did not yet become IN spired until later.

[DefendingYHWH]

@anissueofursincerity so by your reasoning ALL Christians that have HS are inspired? The fruitage of the spirit doesn't qualify or categorize "inspired prophet" in the bilble "fruitage of the spirit is love, joy, peace, long-suffering, kindness, goodness, faith, 23 mildness, self-control" Gal 5:22

[anissueofursincerity]

@DefendingYHWH WT doctrine is that the GB are of the annointed, that 1st C were of the annointed, annointed by holy spirit. And the manner in which that happened in Acts 2 is they were FILLED with the HS.

[DefendingYHWH]

@anissueofursincerity All born again Christians believe they are annointed and filled with HS, but NONE of then claim to be inspired prophets. This belief you have regarding those filled with HS are equal to inspired prophets is new to me. I never heard such a thing nor do I believe Christendom believes what your saying.

[anissueofursincerity]

@DefendingYHWH You saw me write earlier I wasn't stressing the 1st c christians need be termed prophets. It is the WT leadership that claims the identification prophet.

[DefendingYHWH]

@anissueofursincerity I disagree that JWs are inspired prophets (as they never claimed to be), but I believe they are prophets in the sense to foretell events προφητεύω prŏphētĕuō or teaching of these events as the definition states (ie, Paradise Earth, Armageddon, etc..).

[Josiahvidz]

@dubouttaExile "Speaking something in Jehovah's name that does not come true"

You are confusing did not come true with has not come true yet. Do you believe Gods day will eventually arrive? If so then you cannot conclude that JW's spoke a word that did not come true eventually.

[Danmera]

I just would like to know where in Deuteronomy you are getting the word inspired. I have read it a few times, I don't see it. Jehovah says he will raise a prophet (not inspired prophet)...if a prophet presumes to speak in my name (again no inspired) and it does not occur or come true,..

Could you point out inspired vs not inspired regarding prophet in those scriptures?

[DefendingYHWH]

@Danmera vs 18 "and I shall indeed put my words in his mouth, and he will certainly speak to them all that I shall command him" by definition that is an inspired prophet when God puts words in a person's mouth and that one expresses it.

[Danmera]

@DefendingYHWH I didn't ask for a personal definition, I asked where in Deuteronomy does it say inspired?

[DefendingYHWH]

@Danmera It doesn't say "inspired" but through context of 18-22 it's referring to a true prophet and a false prophet claiming to be inspired. Just because the word inspired isn't in the context, it's clear by definition what the text is saying. Would you agree in the one referred to in vs 18 would be an inspired prophet?

[Danmera]

@DefendingYHWH verse 18, "and I shall put my words into his mouth" is that what you are defining as "inspired"?

[DefendingYHWH]

@Danmera Absolutely why wouldn’t it be inspired? Just like the scriptures "All Scripture is inspired of God" 2 Tim 3:16. The thought of the writers didn’t originate with them but originated by God. Exactly like Deut 18:18 "I shall indeed put my words in his mouth, and he will certainly speak to them all that I shall command him".

[Danmera]

@DefendingYHWH So, by your own definition, and by the WT own words, they claim to be inspired, and therefor fail the test. Wouldn't you agree?

[Danmera]

@DefendingYHWH Watchtower Jan 15 1959 “It is has been because Jehovah trust out his hand of power and touched their lips and put His words in their mouths”

The Nations Shall Know that I am Jehovah How? "commissioned to serve as the mouthpiece and active agent of Jehovah... commission to speak as a prophet in the name of Jehovah..."

Sounds like verse 18.

[DefendingYHWH]

@Danmera it does not sound like vs 18 again what you provided says nothing about them being inspired prophets. I acknowledged the WT says they are prophets but not inspired.

[anissueofursincerity]

@DefendingYHWH

They say they are Jehovah's spirit directed organization.

[DefendingYHWH]

@anissueofursincerity John 16:13 "the spirit of the truth, he will guide you into all the truth" when Jesus said his disciples would be guided by holy spirit he didn’t mean they would be prophets. So by saying "Jehovah's spirit directed organization" they mean they are directed by Holy Spirit which does not qualify them making a claim of inspiration.

[anissueofursincerity]

@DefendingYHWH As I demonstrated above, what happened is that the Spirit entered into the members of the christian church there in Acts 2. They became filled with the spirit. They were breathed into. Inspired means in-breathed.

[Danmera]

@DefendingYHWH Wait, by your own words you agreed, inspired was to "put my words into their mouths" yet when the WT claims that is exactly what Jehovah is doing, you change your mind?

If we are going back to focusing on the word "inspired" please show me where it says "inspired" in Duet.

[anissueofursincerity]

He's not going to do that, Danny. 

[Danmera]

@anissueofursincerity Nope, he is done playing with me because he can't refute what he himself said. The WT by his own definition, fails the Duet test.

[anissueofursincerity]

@Danmera Yes. Deut 18 is a command from God to get away from those who practice what the WT has practiced

[DefendingYHWH]

@Danmera I'm sorry what did you say? Did you reference a publication showing they made the claim of inspiration?

[anissueofursincerity]

@Danmera

The WT's core doctrine is that they are God's spokesman here on earth That they are His mouthpiece. Who else but God then puts the words in their mouth if they are

God's mouthpiece?

[Danmera]

@anissueofursincerity I know it, you know it, everyone who is not under the WT spell knows it, but the WT controls their minds. They cannot use their own mind when it risks their almighty WT.

[DefendingYHWH]

@anissueofursincerity How are they God's mouth piece by divine inspiration or by interpreting the inspired word? Please answer

[anissueofursincerity]

@DefendingYHWH

They aren't God's mouthpiece unless by divine inspiration.

In interpreting the inspired word they are just another voice on the wind like the rest of us forming out own opinions.

[DefendingYHWH]

@anissueofursincerity If you just think about what your typing it doesn't make sense. Or you just don't understand what they mean about being God's mouth piece.

[anissueofursincerity]

@DefendingYHWH

I am not God's mouthpiece. I might communicate some wonderful truths to the extent I rely on His word the Bible & hav cultivated a meditative understanding of it, & much good could come it. God might even choose to act thru me on a condition basis as He might u or someone else. But my words are my thoughts, not God's. If I were God's mouthpiece, to the extent I was pronouncing something to be the Truth, it would be true. There would be no falsity in it.

[DefendingYHWH]

@anissueofursincerity Since you nor anyone else hasn't proved any evidence I'll still can't believe they are false. Please produce the evidence.

[Danmera]

@DefendingYHWH You yourself proved it in our earlier conversation. Inspired = god puts his words in their mouths. WT says just that. WT never claimed to be inspired to use that word inspired, but the prophet test does not include the word inspired either.

You want to keep believing in the WT no matter what, so you will, despite everything. It really is sad to see just how much control they have over your mind. You can't see anything but their lame excuses. It really is sad to watch.

[DefendingYHWH]

@anissueofursincerity I guess you have no answer which proves my point they are not false prophets.

[anissueofursincerity]

@DefendingYHWH

What u proved is that u want to add a qualifier to the texts to let the WT off the hook

[anissueofursincerity]

@Danmera

In his replies to me he clouds his mind by answering charges I don't make. Hav u noticed?

[DefendingYHWH]

@anissueofursincerity I didn't charge you I was asking a question which you failed to answer.

[Josiahvidz]

@Danmera Deut says nothing to prove your case. It says if the word "does not occur or come true" are you saying that the end will never come? Also it says they "speak in the name of other gods" How have JW's done this? Don't pick and choose what you want to believe because you have some vendetta with the WT.

[Danmera]

@Josiahvidz Whoa serious case of picking and choosing yourself there. We are not talking about future false prophecies. We are talking about ALL of the false prophecies "in his name" that have already failed to occur or come true. Please try and keep up with the conversation.

[Josiahvidz]

@Danmera "We are talking about ALL of the false prophecies "in his name" that have already failed to occur or come true"

Like I said. They did not fail to come true. They only failed to come true at the time they were expected, but they will come true. Do you agree on that or not?

[Danmera]

@Josiahvidz You mean like Abraham Isaac and Jacob will return in 1925? I can't wait for that one....oh wait, (does a quick calculation) that is passed, It didn't happen. That is just one of many.

So my answer is no, I do not agree. They are false prophets, their own words and their predictions condemn them. For the record this is not about the rank and file Jehovah's Witness, they just mimic whatever comes from Brooklyn.

[Josiahvidz]

@Danmera Wow!! how quick we can change topics. Can you tell me how that qualifies as a prediction and were your proof of that ever occuring is?

[Danmera]

@Josiahvidz Again try to keep up, if you are confused, please refer to my previous posts. I will not repeat it just for you.

[gauleygirl2000]

@Josiahvidz it is a prediction found in WTBS book: "Therefore we may confidently expect that 1925 will mark the return of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and the faithful prophets of old, particularly those named by the Apostle in Hebrews chapter eleven, to the condition of human perfection" (Millions Now Living Will Never Die, pp. 89-90). (continued)

[gauleygirl2000]

@Josiahvidz Rutherford, realizing that when Abraham and company did finally show-up they were going to need a home, he gave instructions to build them a house. In his book, Salvation, Rutherford mentions this house and its purpose for being built.

"At San Diego, California, there is a small piece of land, on which, in the year 1929, there was built a house, which is called and known as Beth Sarim. p. 311 (cont)

[gauleygirl2000]

@Josiahvidz The Hebrew words Beth Sarim mean `House of the Princes;' and the purpose of acquiring that property and building the house was that there might be some tangible proof that there are those on earth today who fully believe God and Christ Jesus and in His kingdom, and who believe that the faithful men of old will soon be resurrected by the Lord, be back on earth, and take charge of the visible affairs of earth" (p. 311).

[DefendingYHWH]

@dubouttaExile I consider all references, so before we continue our conversation let me see evidence. And remember the topic is WT is claiming to be INSPIRED prophets. I would like to see a quote from them claiming they are inspired. Until then I'm not going back and forth with you, show evidence.

[DefendingYHWH]

@dubouttaExile show reference to back up your claim that the WT "have, many MANY times)," claimed to be inspired. Stop typing your words and start typing your references

[DefendingYHWH]

@dubouttaExile Yes that is true in a inspiration way "and I shall indeed put my words in his mouth, and he will certainly speak to them all that I shall command him" that's in vs 18 the WT never claimed Jehovah put anything in their mouth directly, but they interpret scripture.

[Josiahvidz]

Really? Care to show me where it says that. Cause Deuteronomy says that the false prophet would "speak the words I have not commanded". Any such words JW's spoke came from the bible which God did speak. Also Deut says "speaks in the name of other gods" JW's do not do this either. Sounds like the trinity to me. Speaking a word God did not command would be to claim to receive revalations and we do not speak in other gods names. Don't pick and choose what u want to believe.

[DefendingYHWH]

@dubouttaExile The quotes that I gathered contradicts what your claiming. So please do a video where they do claim to be inspired.

[DefendingYHWH]

@dubouttaExile Yes please show me a WT where they claimed to be inspired I would love to see that that. I'll be waiting

[DefendingYHWH]

@dubouttaExile Your own comment 3. See Deut 18:21-22 collapses the points you were trying to make because Deut was referring to INSPIRED PHROPHETS read the context my friend. JW never claimed inspiration.

[DefendingYHWH]

@dubouttaExile you must not have been watching the video why don't you take the chance and open them ears? I said "they never claimed to be INSPIRED prophets". Since you like quoting WT material, show me a WT where they calimed to be inspired? hmmm I don't think you can, prove me wrong though I"ll be waiting.

[taxdanger1]

This narrator is full of shit

[DefendingYHWH]

@taxdanger1 nice choice of words with out going into detail. Why don't you expand on your point?

[21crosscheck21]

Can you define the word "inspired?" I don't think you can in it's fullest sense without showing the WT is indeed a false prophet. You probably won't even try. But one doesn't have to say "I am inspired" that isn't the test. The test is whether or not they claim to be speaking for God. Is the fds Gods channel of communication on earth?

[ILYIAB]

What? Is this a channel when xtians fight xtians? Over the word of the Holey Bible? Hilarious!

[theapologeticfront]

If the WT is not a false prophet, then would you agree that they are at the least, false teachers?

[4thefaithful]

It's simple: not "inspired prophets" = not "God's channel of communication"

[4thefaithful]

@Josiahvidz You are exactly right. God's people do not have to be perfect. That's why JW's are just like every other imperfect religion... You really do get it.

[4thefaithful]

PROPHET

One through whom divine will and purpose are made known. - Insight 2 under prophet

"In his own due time and through his chosen channel of communication, Jehovah has revealed to humble ones details regarding the outworking of his purpose." WT 8/1/04

"God’s prophet and channel of communication to the nation of Israel was Moses. After him, down to John the Baptizer, many prophets, priests, and kings were used by God to communicate his will to his people." WT 2/1/93 p 15

[Josiahvidz]

Prophet

The Greek pro‧phe′tes literally means “a speaker out [Gr., pro, “before” or “in front of,” and phe‧mi′, “say”]” and thus describes a proclaimer, one who makes known messages attributed to a divine source. (Compare Tit 1:12.)

Though this includes the thought of a predictor of the future, the fundamental meaning of the word is not that of prediction.

[4thefaithful]

"Jehovah gives us sound counsel through his Word and through his organization, using the publications provided by “the faithful and discreet slave.” How foolish to reject good advice and insist on our own way! We “must be swift about hearing” when Jehovah, “the One teaching men knowledge,” counsels us through his channel of communication." WT 3/15/2003

What's the difference between a "prophet" and "God's channel of communication"?

[4thefaithful]

@4thefaithful How does Jehovah "counsel us through his channel of communication" (his organization and WT publications) if he is not putting words in their mouth?

[Josiahvidz]

@4thefaithful He is putting words in their mouth, its called the bible. That is why it was possible to say they were God's mouthpiece yet they were not inspired, because they taught bible truths. The bible says live in expectation of Gods day. JW's just took that to literally, but learned that it meant be prepared for Gods day, not try to decipher when it was to come.

[anissueofursincerity]

@Josiahvidz Except with all the false predictions ( which resemble those condemned in Deut. 18) they apparently get some Bible truths mixed up.

[anissueofursincerity]

@4thefaithful

And the Revelation Grand Climax books alleges dead GB members in heaven communicate spiritual knowledge the GB members on earth.

[teflonfanatic]

@4thefaithful: That's an excellent question I want an answer to!!!!!!

[4thefaithful]

This was a good video. Can you make another one explaining the difference between a "prophet" and "God's channel of communication"??

[krstinmre]

I know when a jw needs proof ......I have completed so much research I

[msm1876]

How about page 4 of Awake magazine from 1988 to November of 1995, where they said it was "the Creator's Promise" that a new peaceful world would be ushered in before the 1914 generation passed away??? And when they were writing this, they MEANT the people who saw the events of that year.

Do you REALLY think that just b/c they denied inspiration in other articles, this gets them off the hook for saying THE CREATOR promised something that didn't come to pass?

[DefendingYHWH]

@msm1876 Your question is excellent and is the point of the video, the WT misunderstood the term "This generation" in Luke 21:31, 32, and never did they claim they were inspired to interpret the text the way they did. In other words they misunderstood the text and THOUGHT (not inspired)"the Creator’s promise of a peaceful and secure new world before the generation that saw the events of 1914 passes away".

[msm1876]

@DefendingYHWH Ok, lemme give you a scenario. A famine breaks out in Israel. Someone reads, oh, say something in Isaiah and concludes that the famine will be over by year's end, and says it's God's promise that the famine will be done by then. It does not end then. He claims to just have misunderstood Isaiah's prophecy.

Do you think this would stop him from being stoned as a False Prophet?

[anissueofursincerity]

@exposingthecults

He is mind controled.

[anissueofursincerity]

@DefendingYHWH

They also misunderstood text when they taught 1874 instead of 1914. They also misunderstood the text when the taught the resurrection would happen in 1925. They also misunderstood the text when they taught they would go to heaven in 1914. They also misunderstood the text when they thaught it would be anyone of a responsible age in 1914. They also misunderstood the text when they.... Hey, when did they not msunderstand the text?.

[DefendingYHWH]

@msm1876 And if you continue to read on in the article it states "Some of these specific prophecies refer to a few days, SOME TO YEARS, and OTHERS TO CENTURIES".

[earnestlyseeking]

So was Harold Camping a false Prophet in your opinion?

[Danmera]

Now Now, do not go beyond the things that are written. That scripture says nothing about inspired.

They ARE false prophets, even Fred Franz, (former PRESIDENT of the WT swore in court to that very fact, they are false prophets)

[DefendingYHWH]

@Danmera Read the context of Deut 18 and you’ll see that text is referring to inspired prophets "18:18…and I shall indeed put my words in his mouth, and he will certainly speak to them all that I shall command him.." Can you quote me 1 reference in the WT publication where they claim Jehovah spoke to them? I’ll be waiting for your response.

[Danmera]

@DefendingYHWH Yet the WT claims that very thing, you should read on to the rest of that, how to identify a false prophet. They claim to speak for Jehovah himself, they have claimed he put the words in their mouth, they have made all these bold claims, yet cry "we never claimed to be inspired" when busted. Convenient catch 22 in their favor.

[DefendingYHWH]

@Danmera reference the material prove your case

[anissueofursincerity]

@Danmera

That is a very good reference.

[DefendingYHWH]

@Danmera can you reference me something from the society where they claim "Jehovah put in there mouth and spoke to them" as Deut context shows? Hmmm I didn't think so

[Danmera]

@DefendingYHWH Sorry, you don't get to put your own conditions on it. They have claimed to speak for Jehovah, they have claimed he puts his words in their mouth, they have claimed to be his mouthpiece, they have claimed to be his prophet. They have even testified in court to being false prophets. If you want to keep on believing, by all means, I can't change your mind, however that doesn't change a thing. Time a time again, they fail.

[DefendingYHWH]

@Danmera And I'm suppose to believe you with NO evidence just because?? Again reference the material prove your case. If you can prove it you have no case to go by.

[DefendingYHWH]

CAN'T*

[anissueofursincerity]

@DefendingYHWH

So r u saying the GB is not God's sol channel on earth today?

[DefendingYHWH]

@Danmera This has nothing to do with "setting up my own conditions" it's about you making a claim, and I'm asking for evidence and you can't or fail to produce this evidence. So can you back up your claim????

[anissueofursincerity]

@DefendingYHWH

Is the WTS/J's Witnesses/GB or any part there of God's sol channel on earth today and were such appointed by Jesus Christ in 1919? Or no?

[anissueofursincerity]

@DefendingYHWH

How about the Revelation Grand Climax book where they say dead members of the governing body may communicate spiritual truths to the GB living on earth today? That is on around page 120-125.

[dallywally72]

You know what the great thing is? You don't have to listen to James, Martin Luther, or any man(this includes the governing body). I'm so happy to be out of that cult. :)

[Danmera]

@dallywally72 I just love how he just re-wrote that scripture to add the word inspired.

[DefendingYHWH]

@Danmera Read the context of Deut 18 and you’ll see that text is referring to inspired prophets "18:18…and I shall indeed put my words in his mouth, and he will certainly speak to them all that I shall command him.." Read the context my dear

[LovingScrubbies]

The WT claims it is God's sole channel on earth.

A prophet or navi is a spokesman or channel for God.

The WT teachings that JW leadership is a duly constituted authority, Jehovah's arrangement.

If a member disagrees with that they are subject to being disfellowshipped.

I do understand the lesson u r deriving from John...

[LovingScrubbies]

--> Excuse my typo, I meant I do not understand the lesson u r deriving from John. 

[DefendingYHWH]

@LovingScrubbies I understand The person who I’m debating only uses the KJV so it’s hard to communicate with the KJV. Basically the disciples were misunderstanding Jesus words stating a certain disciple was not going to die until Jesus returned, so it was a wrong thought and a misinterpretation of Jesus words, and that thought spread among the disciples, maybe a teaching. But Jesus didn’t say that "did not say to him that he would not die" they misunderstood Jesus words.

[teflonfanatic]

@LovingScrubbies:

first line I agree with

are we not ambassadors of the kingdom?(2 Corinthians 5:20)

Agree here I neither support or denounce it since it can't be substianted.

Only if they have doubts instead of questions.

P.S. Born into the JW's, then left when my mom left to celebrate holidays and then stopped holidays and went back, then moved to atlanta and gradually stopped, then moved back to N.Y. And studied again, Nice to see you back defendingYHWH

[anissueofursincerity]

@teflonfanatic

You flip back and forth just like WT teaching.

[October31st1517]

1. So you admit that the F&DS have wrongly interpreted scripture? Does not accurate knowledge mean eternal life. How can you be so sure you are getting this accurate knowledge?

2. Notice how Jamesthepreacher isn't afraid to show his face?

[anissueofursincerity]

@October31st1517

The GB/WT claims to be God's channel in the present day. They are His channel, His one and only channel. Jesus appointed them over his belongings.to feed them---teaching them, print books, etc. So when they teach a falsehood as true they are a false prophet.

[bluefish704]

Hey, where have you been?