Helen Mirren takes the Chevy Equinox Fuel Cell for a spin

[randycarter2001]

I have no doubt that it is a fine vehicle with all of the spunk of an electric car. The point that is missed is "where's the fuel going to come from?' 3.9 million to build a single pump station that will have a hard time filling 12 fuel tanks. Even if the cost of the cell can be brought down the infrastructure is going to bankrupt us.

[randycarter2001]

That's 3.9 million dollars for each station and 12 fuel tanks a day. P.S. We will need 20,000 of them just to approach the convenience of gasoline. Even then you still won't be able to drive across the country, only in urban areas.

[ethanisrael1]

If you were to build any significant number hydrogen stations the cost would come down significantly. And you don't need that many stations to have a "skeletal infrastructure servicing most major cities and the interstates that connect them. Most cost estimates Ive seen are under 10 Billion which is less than 0.5% of our national debt and less than 0.08% of our GDP. I doubt it would bankrupt us.

[DanFrederiksen]

this is a truly disappointing video. Helen Mirren is no doubt clueless of the differences between BEV and FC car and she trusts GM. That's tragic but no doubt an honest mistake on her part. the concerning part is that GM is still evil enough to do this. they know better than this. surely. they know Steven Chu told fuel cells to get bent and killed all their funding. yet they still offer this romanticized lie. and to add insult to injury it's a wasteful SUV.

[ethanisrael1]

Many people like driving SUVs for all sorts of reasons. Wouldnt it be nice if they could enjoy those types of vehicles without the environmental impact?

[ethanisrael1]

Steven Chu works for politicians who dont have tones of money to throw at this and need to see results before the next election. Just because he funneled funding to the quickest solution and away from FCs (a longer term solution) doesnt say anything about FCs technical merits. It says more about the timing and the politics. FCs are no more of a romanticized lie than any of the other solutions we have to this problem. All technologies have pros and cons—not just FCs. Dont discount FCs yet.

[DanFrederiksen]

with all due respect you speak from ignorance. there is no can't-we-all-just-get-along side to science. HFC has several critical technical problems, not just those who can be paid for. really killer fundamental scientific limitations. and that's why Chu said no. the only fuel cell that has a chance is a liquid one because that gets rid of a lot of problems even though it still has efficiency handicap it can work as a range extender for battery electric cars.

[DanFrederiksen]

you should look into it. learn the technical side and not just "peacemaking" fluff which excuses the ignorant and the liars.

ask yourself why the oil industry is keen on hydrogen fuel cell promotion..

battery electric is incomparably superior and that's why you wont see HFC cars for sale

[randycarter2001]

How many semesters of chemistry and physics have you had in college? The only gain from using HFC is the peace loving gain. It takes 4 times the energy to go a mile in an HFC car than a BEV. The oil companies can still keep the drive in on a regular basis fill up, no matter what the cost, business model. The only gain is the environment but when you factor in the 4x energy factor even that comes into question.

[DanFrederiksen]

I use a factor 3 as a rule of thumb and it is exactly that factor 3 worse that means HFC is no good. there is no peace gain because the energy comes from fossil fuel and there is no environmental gain either for the same reason. there is no local pollution which makes breathing better but that's about it. the HFC cars that drive around today use more energy than gas cars.

[ethanisrael1]

I'd like to hear some actual specifics about those "really killer fundamental limitations" you mentioned. In the past five years I've spent as a scientist researching many types of FCs and batteries (you'd be surprised how electrochemically and mechanically similar they are) for universities and auto companies, I haven't found any "show stoppers" for FCs. They're not perfect, but nothing is. I see many of these technologies not as competitors, but as complimentary.

[ethanisrael1]

Usually, the people that speak with such certainty about a subject are the ones that are truly ignorant to the subtleties and complexities of that subject. Your factor of 3 rule uses some significant assumptions. Using other equally or even more reasonable assumptions that number could look very different. Every time I read a new study of this nature they come to a different conclusion.

[ethanisrael1]

The video is pretty cheesy...

[DanFrederiksen]

@ethanisrael1 if they are funded by oil companies yes. otherwise, not so much.

why do you think oil companies have supported and pushed fuel cells..

because they are a viable alternative and will run nearly 100% on power from windmills..

[DanFrederiksen]

@ethanisrael1 I know they are both electrochemistry but batteries are above 90% efficient while fuel cells are what? 40-50% eficient?

and when you say researcher as a scientist, is that completely honest? or does that mean you have a degree in some other science and have researched by googling fuel cells?

one of the main killers is the pressure of storage, would you agree? the cost of the tank plus substantial energy loss in the compression of it. and I imagine transmission and transport of it

[ethanisrael1]

Hydrogen is not a primary energy source. If it is made from windmills, it is also very clean. If it is made from coal it is not. Same as electricity. In my experience working for car and battery companies, the oil companies are generally reluctant to embrace both FCs and batteries. Thats because they dont produce either hydrogen or electricity (directly). There are many hydrogen producers already in the US and around the world--and one of their biggest customers is oil refineries.

[ethanisrael1]

Generally, hydrogen PEM FCs are less efficient than some types of batteries but how much is hotly debated. Other types of FCs are more efficient but are suited to different applications. Keep in mind that a good hybrid turbo diesel powertrain can also put up a strong showing in the efficiency category.

[ethanisrael1]

Efficiency is only a small part of the many requirements that auto engineers must trade-off. When you weigh out the trade-offs of all the technologies out there, theres no clear winner and there probably never will be. Thats why I see them as complimentary rather than competitors.

[ethanisrael1]

Sometimes theres no evil conspiracy. These are very complex, subtle, and difficult problems to solve—problems that are more a product of history than of conspiracy. And yes, I have many degrees in science & engineering and I have directly researched both batteries and fuel cells. I can send you my thesis

[DanFrederiksen]

@ethanisrael1 compared to FC sure. not compared to battery electric.

for one who claims technical insight you sure avoid actual data and hide in hand waving. let's hear some actual efficiency numbers from actual products that produce actual power levels.

and Shell is actively pushing hydroge fuel cells. they have refuelling stations with their name on. you know how many oil companies push electric cars? zero. the whole hydrogen fuel cell lie was started by the oil companies. noone else

[DanFrederiksen]

@ethanisrael1 I trust you know chevron texaco bought NIMH patent and made sure only small cells were produced so they couldn't be used for cars. these are simple facts. there was a big push to kill electric cars in california and instead promote fuel cells.

I trust you have seen the documentary who killed the electric car?

who did you work for?

[helenmirrenobsessed]

can't i belong to this family.((:

now when I start to drive & get my first car....guess which one im getting..hehe.....just because she said it was amazing.(:

[mirrenfan2]

@helenmirrenobsessed I'm with you! ;)

[helenmirrenobsessed]

ohh great people gave me negative thumbs down things....no offense taken of course since im a kid, who doesn't know much about cars...

all i know is that i LOVE helen mirren.hehe.

sheshhh people.((:

[mirrenfan2]

I know. Seriously, people. Give Dame Helen a break!