And another thing i liked about this video... Homosexuality did not affect a spartans outlook on masculinity.. As today here in America many would beg to differ. There are no set standards that say because a man loves another man that they will then have to put on makeup and don womens clothing to fit the preconceived notion that gay men always act feminin. Even the msot rugged warriors of time were abundent in gay men.. Very very intresting.
I thought the way Collin Ferral portayed Alexander and his homosexuality was beautiful in Alexander. Jered Leto was awsome as Hepahistion too.. As a fellow gay man, i sometimes feel that i was born in the wrong era. But it could be alot worse if i was elsewhere, as bad as America is, we could have it worse. And people are right, religion is disgusting to me at least. My heart goes out to my fellow gay brothers who struggle with discrimination everyday. Hang in there. Even i have my challanges.
Homosexual loving and being loved is up to any individual, but I think a lot of the sexual behavior was a result of pervert men who didn't know how to be men so they exploited their power and made it a life style. Loving a man- the ultimate love as equals? Train a boy in exchange of love making? please.... how insulting... a father, or relative that knows what he is doing can teach WITHOUT THE SEXUAL BEHAVIOR. I am surtain this was forced on young boys
make sense ... that young men need to be taught by their elders. But again love is love, it is true also that being able to love another man could be the higher form of love because to love another man, it requires some sort of submission or letting go some sort of ego ... Just my humble opinion ...
In the documentary "Rise and Fall of the Spartans" it suggested the relationship between young boys and their mentors may have been intimate. Male homosexuality was compulsory there in Sparta.
Actuelly I have read that in many history books of ours, when Alexander came to Middle East his men got in love and raped too many people! men boys and girls! even in the movie you see Alexander kissing a Middle eastern slave servant
because it meant that your son was undesirable in a political connection kind of way. Not because it means no one sexually desired your boy. Also actual anal sex wasn't all that common. The Greeks were more into frotting between the thighs which can be hard to depict in some art work but is rather clear in others like the famous vase depicting Zyphyr and Hykinthos.
Interesting video but there are a few inaccuracies. Not all of the relationships between men and boys were actually explicitly sexual. Many were, but not all. The most important aspect of the relationship and subsequent bonds that were formed between a pair was the mentoring and nurturing of the arts/sciences/hunting and any other forms of learning that were needed to make a man considered respectable during the time. The reason it was considered a shame not to have such a partner is . . .
I am not a gay.. But I have my deviations and I am very open minded in the sex theme... I think that church absolutely castrated our society and make everybody feel wrong about their natural feelings... I will never forget this Christian slavery.... I cant stand that there are still people who think that gays are evil or women do not enjoy sex or cant get any orgasm... Its not those people fault... Its fault of Christian society...
I don't have a problem with men having sex/being in love with other men but when it's grown men having sex with adolescent boys......I don't like that part........ >_<
@KeersK1990 It wasn't really like that. It's not like a 25 year old got a 12 year old and just started railing away on him. It was a relationship that evolved over a period of 5 or more years. Sex wasn't the main aspect of that relationship, it was one part of it - and it wasn't even guaranteed to be part of it. The main reason for this relationship was a general education within Greek society.
Listen, I have no problem to be told that my ancestors were consisted of gays, because kind of the same happened everywhere. Homosexuality is not the problem, but the criticism that it receives. I mean, seriously, what is the problem if you have sex with a person of the same sex group. And, for the church, why should God have a problem? Why the hell did he gave us the our... ahem... you know... for? XD
@MightyPhalus You have never been more wrong and should be absolutely ashamed of yourself for saying such a thing. Women in ancient times, meaning even before the classical Greek era were celebrated and incredibly important members of society. The first conception of god was "The Great Goddess". Ancients were mystified an amazed by the reproductive power and sexual premise of the female. Maybe do some research before you talk bullshit . I suggest you read Riane Eislers "Sacred Pleasure"
If you want to Know more about Homosexuality in Ancient Greece, I'm your man. I wrote a paper "Homoerotics in Classical Greece" which can explain why in 2 centuries, the ancient Greeks accomplished comparatively more that the rest of human kind in the whole history of the planet!
Alexander the Great had male lovers ( we know for sure that the persan Begoas who must have been 12 at the time he encounter the king, was one) BUT never we had proof of a physical love affaire with Hephaistion NEVER... most of what you say is true BUT NOT ALL OF IT. Not every relation between erastes and eromenos end up in sodomie, most of them were just PLATONIC initiation. this is even more true regarding SPARTA.
Most of the information is correct, although I would debate you on a few of the statements in this video (like your comments on Sparta and anal sex), for the most part I agree with with what you've stated :)
I wanted to say before you misunderstand where I'm coming from and think I'm some homophobe far from the truth. I'm gay myself, but see anal sex for what it is-filthy,feminising as in receptive =womanly function-this is why people especially str8 guys thing being a gay male takes one's manhood away-,dangerous-risky and driving down a oneway street so to speak.
OK i see everyone here is talking as if ancient Greece homosexuality was a tolerant thing lolll sure!!! Their homosexuality was empowered by the misogynistic view of women and their deep hatred toward them. They preached that love, intellectual and sexual satisfaction could not be fulfill with women. At certain period they even forced them to wear burquas in public They had absolutely no right. Not to mention the pedophilia, zoophilia etc. Homosexuality wasn't a choice, it was forced on people.
not all ancient greece was misogynistic. In Macedonia and Sparta the position of woman was very tolerant. also the views on homosexuality differed in every city. in athens pederasty was sure a fashion and had certain rules. adult homosexuality also was something tolerant too. this certain view about women existed only in athens.
anyway, ancient greeks were not more or less homosexual than we are today. i suppose sexual orientation existed in the same percent back then. now sexualbehaviorvaried
@funnyjerry It's like today's day and age, anal is forced on people as being seen as THE quintessentil only thing that constitutes sex betwee men. I one were to even suggest doing anything non penetrative, they say sum infantile crap like "I can do that on my own,now penetrate my bussy/man cunt/mangina etc. uh, hello!! can you say parody of heterosexual intercourse? & they wonder why their assholes become inside out(they luv that bit) & get AIDS. lol & y they're asked who's the man & woman.
Ancient Greeks used to say: "be good with the foreigner who comes from afar..."Their religion has stated that we should at first give food to an alien, then give him the opportunity to take a bath, and only then to ask him about his intentions!
Christianity was much better: an alien had to be asked at first if he accepts Jesus as a savior, then, if not, the alien should be put to burn at stake, in order for him to have his sins forgiven in the...future life! It happened all the time!
@lesgaybitrans Definitely. And ChristPsychosis is the worst. After Constantine invented the Roman Catholic Church, subsuming all previous forms of Christianity, the Christians inherited a perfectly functioning and tolerant GrecoRoman civilization and destroyed EVERYTHING. If it weren't for the Muslims preserving the writings and resourceful Christian monks scraping and writing over old documents, we wouldn't know anything about ancient Greece or Rome.
Omg!!!! active and passive? despite what you're trying to sale they were not into anal sex. Your just trying to legitimise a modern feminising practice. homosexual does not equal anal sex. Anal sex is an imitation of male-female intercourse-thus the question who is the woman in the relationship?
The first study on this stuff was made by the British Scholar Kenneth Dove guided by the Jew George Devereux for obvious reasons.
Anyone who speaks Greek and can understand the basics on Plato and ancient Philosophy, already knows that all this homosexuality British-born myth is aimed to totally uneducated people.
Bisexuality was not necessarily practiced. The ancient Greeks were strictly Homosexual using women only for procreation; One of the reasons they so easily assimilated into Roman culture, their numbers were small...............their numbers, mind you
keep in mind it was religion that reinforced the ancient Greek ways. Religion is not always the enemy. It merely needs to be wrestled away from the barbarians who have subverted it to evil ends. Review the myths of Ganymede, Apollo & Hyacinth, Hercules & ?, Achilles & his lover...(?)...Neptune & ?
@lesgaybitrans the Greeks had religion before Christianity. Remember, paganism is a religion--what we call "mythology" today was religion to our ancestors.
well paganism is one 'religion', christianity is another one already!
the first walks along with nature, the second demonizes everything in the name of the sin. let's not compare these two religions. christianity and islam are our enemies
The Judaic-Christian - Islamic religions have perverted the beauty of life.
The Ancient Greeks were right.
Nevertheless today the Greeks are Christians. They have absolutely nothing to do with the Ancient Greeks, who were smart and awesome. In fact you can see that Greeks nowadays are ugly and fat like the Americans!
It is a pity that the Greeks have forgotten their ancestors and that they became intolerant Christians.
Doesn't everyone know that alexander and Hephaistion were lovers and that homosexual relationships in ancient Greece were part of the social fabric without the paranoid demented bigotry that is foud today, especially in poisoned evangelical USA..........it's becoming as bad as islam !
homosexuality generally in ancient world was something normal. then christianity came and demonized everything. well yeah, Alexander and Hephaistion we so much in love, i totally get inspired!
to statenlslandSpartan: the reason i am not allowing your comments is because you stupid nationalists and litttle fascists have become boring telling the same tape every thime. your lifestyle, and you ar ehiding the truth blah blah blah.. i sugggest you read the more info and all the books i mention. then we will see who is wrong. im not hiding anything. i am just protecting the beauty of this video.
just because your ignorant morons don't understand the meaning of homosexuality that doesn't mean that we are going to spend several hours teaching. i suggest you begin with my videos. homophobia is a illness, you know ;). the reason i have rights is the same reason EVERY person has right...we live in the civilized world. and like it or not, homosexuality is a human right. we don't - REALLY- give a fuck about what happened back then (althought it's clear what happened). it's just history.
and you have quit misunderstood the meaning of democracy. people like you in the west civilized world wouldn't have the right to speak and preach hate. even if they didn't agree with the historical view, they would just try to prove the opposite. and no one has managed to do that so far. great scientists AND NOT ONLY GAY have come to the conclusion about ancient greece and the whole ancient world too. just because from the moment you are bong they have taught taht homosexual behavior is bad,
sinful, hateful etc that doesn't mean it's true. try to get over it, accept the history of your people and get a freakin life. I was doing the mistake for some time to let people like you comment free and the video went fucked up. oh im sorry, that's not gonna happen again. bb
i added the music throught youtube. i don't remember the title. it's odd that statistics and data won't show anything (they usually show to the owner of the video). I will search and I will tell you
I would also really like to know about Alexander's sexuality, cause everyone says that is just gossip that he had a relationship with another guy.. does anyone knows where can i find any information about it? thanks.
ok.. i must say that i was really surprised when i saw this video cause i had no idea about these facts were going on in ancient Greece but i don't really believe that actually these facts are true. Maybe those ancient scripts were just stories or something. Do we actually have any proofs that these were really happening?
if these ancient scrips are jus stories, then the whole history about ancinet greece is story my friend. ar eyou kidding me? yes, we have proves. THE TEXTS and SO MANY PICTURES SAVED. these are just stories? about alexander, he was probably a bisexual in the scale 5 in kinsey's scale. he respected women and he believed that they are good just for procreation. his greatest love was Hephaistion. When he died, he went mad. YOu don't go mad for just a typical frend. check the more info
nope, you are wrong. pedophiles are sick and are fantasizing kids under 12. pederasty is about young teenagers. pedophilia was not accepted even back then. the boy had to be at least 12 years old, which means a teenager. :)
we are talkinga bout different civilizations and societies. a 12 years old boy back then was alreday a teen, considering people lived till 40. anyhow, sorry for the grammar mistakes :P. i did it a litle bit quiclky, maybe i will upload a corrected version. the point is that you got what i wanted to say haha
Actually, you're wrong. The concept of the "teen" in Ancient Greece did not exist. They just saw a 12 year old as a more mature boy than the younger boys. I'm not aware if they had a different term for when boys reached that age of maturity. Compared to where a 12 year old in contemporary America is a pain in the ass.
the point of this video is to sho that ancient greeks were not more or less homosexuals as we are today. sexual orientation exists in a standarn percent in every generation. and the majority is bisexuality, and that' s was the rule, the bisexual behavior. homosexuals existed too and nothing told them anything (except athens where they didnt' have political rights like women didn't) and heterosexuals too.
homosexiality exists in various forms you know so i would say they were homosexuals in the same way we are today. exclusive homosexuals is a litle percent for sure. that was something normal and tolerant in ancient greece too (besides the bisexual orientation)
However the rest of Greece seemed to approve of pederasty, provided it conformed to the strict rules of each region. In the symposium, The land of Thebes and Boetia was said to actively encourage young men to grant favours to older men, whereas the rules in Athens were very difficult to understand. Plato said that to test what sort of man you were going out with was the way to ensure it was a noble act, but if it was done for money then it was shameful.
exactly. it was the prostitution that was forbidden :D.
Athenians were very lustful for young teenagers! :P!
there is nothing diffucult to understand! they knew they had to procreate to continue life so every man had to get married. then they used to cage women in the houses and run for yound boys and female prostitutes. hahaha
1st)pedophilia is fantazing kids under the age of 12! open your shrink manual first and then post, useless ignorant user!
2nd) morality is something relative. In ancient world the morals were different. The whole relationship existed in order to protect the yound 'boy' too.
3rd) people back then lived the half the time we live nowadays. A yound boy around 12 - 13 was already a modern teenager.
So we are talking about pederasty, not pedophilia. You stupid ignorant! Even so, pedophlia is a paraphilia. noone is trying to promote or support it. so just get over it
well thanks but this video was not made for 'gay' pride. it was made for historical reasons. Some people are trying to present ancient greece like iran. well, they can take it into their ashes :D
did they tell you that homsoexuality was always not acceptable? :P
the suffering for homosexual people began during the middle ages. (if this is the correct word :X). that's when the separation between normal and abnormal began.
well the problem wasn't the prostitution by itself. it was the philosophy behind it. if a man would sell his body so easily for money, there was no guarantee that he wouldn't sell his country as easy as his body. or maybe, he would definitely sell his country for some money. that's the reason they allowed only female prostitution (women didn't have 'political' rights). from the other side, it was not acceptable for a man not to get married and create a family. the bisexual behavior was the rule
Wow good stuff! when you get time can you swap out the music for some deep house. That track reminds me of the closet queens from boarding school days whose fear of a good party made them such sadists.
it is in it's own way, but can you imagine trying to assist some repressed closet queen to get in touch with their inner beat freak with those sounds? come on now, you know you need a gentle probing thumping house beat ... oh yes, here he comes now prancing down the corridor in his thug gear Ooop Oooop!
the ethics and the morality in the ancient world was different. im not claiming if it's right or wrong. yes women did not have rights in ancient world. also, i don't see how this video can be used against homosexuals. because i describe the world kinaidoi? but there was nothing against them. also ancients greeks had a different aspect about 'political rights' . the bisexual behavior was th=e accepted one. plus, in many cities of greece this age difference wasn't necessary. a 12 or 13 years old
boy back then was already a teenager (considering people lived till the age of 40 ! ). don't try to emulate today modern society with these ancients societies. and i didn't say that every greek person was gay. and i also didn't say that male prostitutes were more! on the contrary, im saying that they forbid male prostitution! i don't see why you are so negative against this video :S
Just after they legalized homosexuality, they were conquered by Romans, then when they legalized homosexuality, they were conquered by Goths, now we legalized homosexuality we will be conquered by muslims, comunists, anyone with higher spirituality and stricter social rules... Homosexuality like Pandora's box.. or something like that.. but it often occured on the dawn of civilization...
hehe... it's funny how bigots are trying to find scapegoats. Just after? homosexuality and pederasty existed in ancient greece long before they were conquered. And after they were conquered, they continued to exist. you pathetic loser. it's christianity that came and made homosexuality illegal. Now that we legalize homosexuality, more people will be happy and free to live with their same sex partners. Instead of blaming same sex love, i suggest you read history first and find out the true
reasons that every civilization was destroyed, and that was mainly the inhumanity towards each other (just like you do with innoncent people that havent hurt anybody, tits homosexuals), and of course MONEY. Money and power is the main reason most of them were destroyed. ). And to end this meaningless answer to your also meaningless post, you are the true shame for every country, FASCISTS. Not get lost
but i thought that sparta and creet were against homosexuality, especaily the spartans, because the main goal in spartan scociety was to have fit healthy sons to die in battle, well... you llearn somthing new every day :)
and why is having homosexuality as part of their lives makes them unhealthy? :SSSS. I can't understand what kind of image of pic do you have about homosexuality in your mined. About same sex attraction, meaning. Start with APA and DSM - IV .
hey im not against homosexuality im a yotube gay right activist, i just like to learn about history, ancient greek polotics being one of my favoourit subjects, sorry if you got the wrong idea by that comment! : )
between a "lover" and his "beloved" teenage boy there was no penetration...according to the Athenian "rules" the lover would just push or rub his pennis against the thigh of the beloved until he finished on his thigh...the was neither oral sex nor anal sex....the boy should remain calm without any sign of pleasure ..he wasnt supposed to enjoy all this procedure..he was just participating in order to please his lover..he would become a lover himself as well as an adult..
i answered you to my other video too :) . Well this is something is not believed from official resources. Just like it's mentioned in my video, there is a lot of evidence that talk clearly about anal sex. The sex between 2 adults was considered shameful (from some, others didn't care that much :P).
exactly. 600 lines are left from her great work. The other was burned from church. What did that work inside it that made this capitalistic mechanism burn it? i wonder :P...
episis to kanali mou einai ena enimerotiko kanali pou asxoleitai me tis sexualikes meionotites. to exo ftiaksei gia kathara enimerotikous kai pliroforiakous logous. mias kai edo stin ellada iparxei mia skopimi parapliroforisi kai genikotera oi ellines einai ligo amorfotoi se polla themata, ara kai sto thema ton sexual minorities. den fonazo kati se prosopiko epipedo. apo tin alli, giati na min mporo na to fonazo? eisi giati na fonazeis oti eisai straight? den katalabaino... isotita den xoume?
me ton idio akribos tropo pou kapoioi blammenoi theloune sonei kai kala na mas apodeiksoune oti itane straight, me ton idiko akribos tropos ego leo tin diki mou apopsi. den exoa politos kanena problima. to na ftiaxneis ena istoriko video kathe allo para problima einai. me pianeis?
hi its a good video. I think your video shows a part of truth but also a part of false. In Ancient Greece, bisexuality was NOT well seen. We can definitively see it with the texts of the philosophs.
Παντος γιατι, εισει, ενα ελλήνας θελείς να ελαπώσεις την αρχαια ελλαδα ?
i was thinking not to allow your comment, but you insist. bisexuality was WELL seen and not only in ancient greece but in all the ancient world. that's proves and stop your miserable christianic propaganda. and please, don't try to pretend you are objective, when you think that talking about homosexuality in ancient greece reduces it. that's christianic morality talking and that's what i hate most to stupid fascists like you. Homosexuality is nothing to be ashamed of, no vice, no degradation. cu
I thought Plato said that it depends on the region of Hellenic people. In Ionia and other countries under barbarians, according to Pausanius in the symposium, it was shameful for a young man to love an older man, in Boeotia and Thebes it was actually encouraged, and in Sparta and Athens the rules of bisexuality were complicated.
I know Plato in his later works such as the laws and the republic was dismissive of bisexuality but his earlier works seem to show its prevalence in Hellas.
the relationship between erasths and eromenos turned into a sexual one and had the characteristic of the initiation of yound teenagers in the adult life.
i don't know if what you said about ionia is true. i know that except ancient athens and crete, the age difference was really shameful. the spartans blamed athenians for this age difference.
but generally, homosexuality was something normal during ancient times. tolerance/acceptance of various forms of homosexuality was more or less during the ancient times but for the first time homosexuality was forbiden in the 6th century AD. that is the most defined historical truth :)
Plato said that different regions in Greece had different rules. In Ionia, if I remember correctly, it was considered shameful, along with gymnastics and philosophy, which were considered shameful too. All of these things promoted individuality and powerful bonds between men and one has to remember that Ionia was, unlike the rest of Hellas, only just free from the Persian rule . They didnt want men forging strong bonds, hence why Plato said they were intolerant of pederasty.
although, i must add that Plato forbid 'morally' the sex between 2 adults. In the area of anciet athens, adult homosexuality was something tolerant but you can say that it went against their every day habits the sex between 2 adult men. However, the man and the boy fucked really well. HAHAHAHAHA. just something i forgot to mention =)
to mackjeej: since you can't ger over yourself and not be rude (showing actually how ignorant you are), your comments won't be allowed. i suppose you are hucking around like a straight animal... straights are not animals, they are humans that's the reason they have sex only for procreation. HAHAHAHAHA. block, and really, reaaaaaaally you need to get a shrink. i ve seen my share of straight too. unfortunately, we are talking about ignorant lower level iq bigots. too bad :D
Actually your statements are false and have been debunked multiple times, in Ancient greece`s laws it was considered a crime to be a homosexual punishable by death. The vases and paintings portrayed were Taboo and not a household item. The popularity of the Ancient Greek Gay theory was popularized by homesexual authors themselves such as walter pater, michel foucalt, john boswell, john winkler and david halperin, don`t say it was accepted because you feel better about yourself
lol. the only thing that punishable was the male prostitution, for the reasons I explain in the more info.yeah yeah, the vases were a taboo, not representations. LOOOOOOOOL! i must inform you that most of the scientists that studied homosexuality in ancient greece are straight themselves. stop coming from the propaganda of some greek stupid videos from the the party of LAOS and face the facts: homosexuality was something so natural for ancients greeks, just like heterosexuality. i have no need
to turn to ancient greeks to feel better. we all know that in every ancient civilization homosexuality was accepted as part of their lives. later, the christianic religions and islam (the religions you are truly poisoned from) came and changed everything. you keep calling me sick, but maybe YOU are sick when you are influenced by the perverted morality of your one god religions, and at t he same time you consider yourself ancient greek lover. this is laughable by itself. now, get over yourself
Have you actually ever read the symposium? If you have you cant tell me that homosexuality didn't exist in ancient Greece. The majority of scholars are actually heterosexual and they all agree that homosexual acts took place in ancient greece.
mackjeez, fuck off we alredi know the truth, quit trying to destroy historical truth to make urself feel better, it only proves u have the worst illness known to man - HOMOPHOBIA. so y are u so afraid of us? maybe coz u cling onto women to make yourself feel like u never left your mothers womb LMFAO go suck on your mothers tits some more and while ur at it, go tell the greek orthodox church to get over their prejudice or go to hell, seeing that they are the onli ones that believe in such a place
so the only real way it can be proven is finding a text written by a transexual of the time, stating that they felt they were meant to be born as a woman.
to the spanish at the time, all native americans would hav been seen as wearing womens clothes coz of differences between cultures. and effeminacy dusnt prove sexuality coz thers heaps of straight ppl that are very feminine. so to get the truth u wud hav to go to pre-christian times but ofcourse they had no word in any civilisation back then that can directly translate to modern english to mean transexuality (as it wud most probably be confused with homosexuality).
you said it yourself. what's a man or a woman behavior is defined from the society. we may think that being feminine is a woman's behavior, because that's how we teach boys and girls, but in other times and societies, the feminine behavior (what we cal feminine ;) ) was the man behavior. please read the very first article in my blog. it will solve you all your questions about transsexuality
so i wud like to ask u if u hav any proof of transexual existence before jewish and christian times. in native america, wen the spanish came to take over, they found a tribe that was aparently all transexuals. but this cant reli be proven coz they say the ppl of the tribe all wore womens clothes and acted very feminine.
i think transexuality actually is an invention of our time. as sum gay people may grow up hearing and believing stupid stereotypical homophobic comments such as "gay guys are like girls", i think to sum ppl it actually sticks with them and may affect them in such a way that they actually start believing they are women.
according to my theory, trans. wud only hav been created wen christianity came about coz before that (as seen in ancient greece) homosexual relations were part of cultures.
no. that's what christianity poisoned. and that's what some are doing to gays and lesbians today, forcing them to change their sex so that they can later continue as heterosexuals. for example Iran. that's a crime against a lesbian or gay but still, religion is poison and continues to crusify homosexuals :S. how men or women are we, this is the gender identity, it doesn't come from our sexual organs, it's a product of social training. don't confuse sex with gender identity.
this is clearly not innate as the meaning is to change from 1 gender to the other.but leaving this aside, i cant reli see it part of human nature to change sexes.i hav formed the opinion that transexuals are simply gay men that cannot deal with their sexuality so they establish themselves as women to make more sense out of their feelings. this is probably wrong, & i would really like to accept their ways, but i cant see it being right in any way for a man to completely turn himself into a woman.
no. trans people are not gay. i answered you. you now some transsexuals continue as homosexuals later? lesbian trans womens and gay trans men? it's because they changed their sex into the right one, but the orientation still remains towards the same - now - sex. if you read the very first article in my blog you will understand better. take a look!
wow! thank you so much! this makes a lot more sense than the stupid close minded patriotic greek clips on youtube. thank you once again for providing us with the truth of homosexuality in ancient greece, i believe every word written in this clip :D
thank you very much :). I try to be objective with historical facts. now the stupid close minded patriotic greeks are parodies of greeks. they worhship ancient Greece and then they judge it with christianic morality. it's freaking funny. fascists and bigots do the most harm in every country, for their own country!
yes! you are totally right :) i would like to ask u something tho. i believe hetero, homo and bisexuality are all innate, above that i think even if its not reli innate for certain people, it is human nature to explore sexuality and there is nothing wrong with that, i am bisexual myself. but one thing iv never really understood is transexuality.
transexuality and trangender people are natural as well :). some people know since they are young that they are born in wrong body. that's transexuality. it has nothing to do with orientation, but with the sex of a person. not even the gender identity.
Thank you for providing this much needed look at homosexuality from a historical perspective. You have done an great job & regardless of what the bigots may try to cover up, they will never change recorded history. We should all make a concerted effort to preserve our history so it does not remain distorted & bypassed by the academic community, that is always under attack by the Religions when they tell the "truth" rather than just glossing history with an "ignorant" edited "Hollywood" version.
yeah... it's funny how they keep bubbling about a 'homosexual agenda' when most of the historians that studied homosexuality in ancient Greece were heterosexual themselves! ahaha! It's even more funnier that they call themselves patriots and worship ancient Greece and at the same time they believe in christianity. Sometimes I want to push them from the edge of a cliff. rofl! good morning!
The Gods Apollo, Zeus and Pan have loving relationships with other Men throughout greek mythology. It wasn't just Greek culture. Homosexual relationships is part of their religion. Same goes for some Heroes like Acillies. Greece was a Man's world.
You'll see similar attitudes in China, Rome, Japan and Native America. It's fact that humanity was more sexually free before Christianity.
exactly. all ancient religions had homosexuality in their culture... polytheist religions don't demonize love in any form... and of course the whole world was like that before christianity. the bisexual behavior was the accepted one.! :P!
an army of homosexuals conquered the world.
ultraV1r 1 month ago
And some idiot is gonna comment that homosexuality is the reason the Roman Empire fell. Or have they already?
MrsCamui 1 month ago
And another thing i liked about this video... Homosexuality did not affect a spartans outlook on masculinity.. As today here in America many would beg to differ. There are no set standards that say because a man loves another man that they will then have to put on makeup and don womens clothing to fit the preconceived notion that gay men always act feminin. Even the msot rugged warriors of time were abundent in gay men.. Very very intresting.
Zachbro39 2 months ago
I thought the way Collin Ferral portayed Alexander and his homosexuality was beautiful in Alexander. Jered Leto was awsome as Hepahistion too.. As a fellow gay man, i sometimes feel that i was born in the wrong era. But it could be alot worse if i was elsewhere, as bad as America is, we could have it worse. And people are right, religion is disgusting to me at least. My heart goes out to my fellow gay brothers who struggle with discrimination everyday. Hang in there. Even i have my challanges.
Zachbro39 2 months ago
Homosexual loving and being loved is up to any individual, but I think a lot of the sexual behavior was a result of pervert men who didn't know how to be men so they exploited their power and made it a life style. Loving a man- the ultimate love as equals? Train a boy in exchange of love making? please.... how insulting... a father, or relative that knows what he is doing can teach WITHOUT THE SEXUAL BEHAVIOR. I am surtain this was forced on young boys
ISme34 3 months ago
only the delusional believes in religion.
britney1456789 4 months ago
make sense ... that young men need to be taught by their elders. But again love is love, it is true also that being able to love another man could be the higher form of love because to love another man, it requires some sort of submission or letting go some sort of ego ... Just my humble opinion ...
lovebeyondnow 6 months ago
In the documentary "Rise and Fall of the Spartans" it suggested the relationship between young boys and their mentors may have been intimate. Male homosexuality was compulsory there in Sparta.
HistoryLover1550 6 months ago
Yeap, but it was formed, coded in their morality...
it had particular reason for its existence and it was completely different from the - nice choice of words - compulsory pederasty in athens ;)
lesgaybitrans 6 months ago
@lesgaybitrans True!
HistoryLover1550 6 months ago
And along came christianity and destroyed it all..Christianity is like a deadly virus, rapidly spreading killing everything it touches.
BlueShreveport 6 months ago 10
Actuelly I have read that in many history books of ours, when Alexander came to Middle East his men got in love and raped too many people! men boys and girls! even in the movie you see Alexander kissing a Middle eastern slave servant
xOxKurdParstxOx 7 months ago
Plz what about LESBIANS? or TRANNIES?
xOxKurdParstxOx 7 months ago
i wish i lived in ancient greece...
Manolara10 7 months ago 8
dislikes cannot handle the truth?
BananaSandwich1 7 months ago
Fuck, why can't we have this now? RELIGION! that's why goddammit! Fuck religion!
treesapa 8 months ago 7
because it meant that your son was undesirable in a political connection kind of way. Not because it means no one sexually desired your boy. Also actual anal sex wasn't all that common. The Greeks were more into frotting between the thighs which can be hard to depict in some art work but is rather clear in others like the famous vase depicting Zyphyr and Hykinthos.
redcorpse 10 months ago
Interesting video but there are a few inaccuracies. Not all of the relationships between men and boys were actually explicitly sexual. Many were, but not all. The most important aspect of the relationship and subsequent bonds that were formed between a pair was the mentoring and nurturing of the arts/sciences/hunting and any other forms of learning that were needed to make a man considered respectable during the time. The reason it was considered a shame not to have such a partner is . . .
redcorpse 10 months ago
I am not a gay.. But I have my deviations and I am very open minded in the sex theme... I think that church absolutely castrated our society and make everybody feel wrong about their natural feelings... I will never forget this Christian slavery.... I cant stand that there are still people who think that gays are evil or women do not enjoy sex or cant get any orgasm... Its not those people fault... Its fault of Christian society...
JackobTyl 11 months ago 4
thank you for the info it was great and i loved the back ground music !!!
traexierous 11 months ago
I don't have a problem with men having sex/being in love with other men but when it's grown men having sex with adolescent boys......I don't like that part........ >_<
KeersK1990 1 year ago
@KeersK1990 It wasn't really like that. It's not like a 25 year old got a 12 year old and just started railing away on him. It was a relationship that evolved over a period of 5 or more years. Sex wasn't the main aspect of that relationship, it was one part of it - and it wasn't even guaranteed to be part of it. The main reason for this relationship was a general education within Greek society.
Virility 1 year ago 2
Listen, I have no problem to be told that my ancestors were consisted of gays, because kind of the same happened everywhere. Homosexuality is not the problem, but the criticism that it receives. I mean, seriously, what is the problem if you have sex with a person of the same sex group. And, for the church, why should God have a problem? Why the hell did he gave us the our... ahem... you know... for? XD
KKRULER 1 year ago
Thank you for posting this important history.
3investigators 1 year ago 3
The truth is: Men drive men to excell. Women are only good for bearing children. A woman never helped a man build an empire.
MightyPhalus 1 year ago
@MightyPhalus You have never been more wrong and should be absolutely ashamed of yourself for saying such a thing. Women in ancient times, meaning even before the classical Greek era were celebrated and incredibly important members of society. The first conception of god was "The Great Goddess". Ancients were mystified an amazed by the reproductive power and sexual premise of the female. Maybe do some research before you talk bullshit . I suggest you read Riane Eislers "Sacred Pleasure"
THEFRISKYBUISNESS 1 year ago
i wanna live in ancient greece or rome Damn I BORN IN THE WRONG DECADE
Gingie4life 1 year ago 5
If you want to Know more about Homosexuality in Ancient Greece, I'm your man. I wrote a paper "Homoerotics in Classical Greece" which can explain why in 2 centuries, the ancient Greeks accomplished comparatively more that the rest of human kind in the whole history of the planet!
MrTonicin 1 year ago
Alexander the Great had male lovers ( we know for sure that the persan Begoas who must have been 12 at the time he encounter the king, was one) BUT never we had proof of a physical love affaire with Hephaistion NEVER... most of what you say is true BUT NOT ALL OF IT. Not every relation between erastes and eromenos end up in sodomie, most of them were just PLATONIC initiation. this is even more true regarding SPARTA.
Scafr 1 year ago
Most of the information is correct, although I would debate you on a few of the statements in this video (like your comments on Sparta and anal sex), for the most part I agree with with what you've stated :)
unavalible 1 year ago
correction: Haphaestion
Indigos8rboi 1 year ago
I wanted to say before you misunderstand where I'm coming from and think I'm some homophobe far from the truth. I'm gay myself, but see anal sex for what it is-filthy,feminising as in receptive =womanly function-this is why people especially str8 guys thing being a gay male takes one's manhood away-,dangerous-risky and driving down a oneway street so to speak.
dstewart28 1 year ago
OK i see everyone here is talking as if ancient Greece homosexuality was a tolerant thing lolll sure!!! Their homosexuality was empowered by the misogynistic view of women and their deep hatred toward them. They preached that love, intellectual and sexual satisfaction could not be fulfill with women. At certain period they even forced them to wear burquas in public They had absolutely no right. Not to mention the pedophilia, zoophilia etc. Homosexuality wasn't a choice, it was forced on people.
funnyjerry 1 year ago
not all ancient greece was misogynistic. In Macedonia and Sparta the position of woman was very tolerant. also the views on homosexuality differed in every city. in athens pederasty was sure a fashion and had certain rules. adult homosexuality also was something tolerant too. this certain view about women existed only in athens.
anyway, ancient greeks were not more or less homosexual than we are today. i suppose sexual orientation existed in the same percent back then. now sexualbehaviorvaried
lesgaybitrans 1 year ago
@funnyjerry It's like today's day and age, anal is forced on people as being seen as THE quintessentil only thing that constitutes sex betwee men. I one were to even suggest doing anything non penetrative, they say sum infantile crap like "I can do that on my own,now penetrate my bussy/man cunt/mangina etc. uh, hello!! can you say parody of heterosexual intercourse? & they wonder why their assholes become inside out(they luv that bit) & get AIDS. lol & y they're asked who's the man & woman.
dstewart28 1 year ago
I hate to ask it, but what has changed? I'm still getting fucked by my parents.
miikhailov 1 year ago
haha. meaning?
lesgaybitrans 1 year ago
Ancient Greeks used to say: "be good with the foreigner who comes from afar..."Their religion has stated that we should at first give food to an alien, then give him the opportunity to take a bath, and only then to ask him about his intentions!
Christianity was much better: an alien had to be asked at first if he accepts Jesus as a savior, then, if not, the alien should be put to burn at stake, in order for him to have his sins forgiven in the...future life! It happened all the time!
48acar19 1 year ago
hahahahahahahahahaahha
lesgaybitrans 1 year ago
The nationalists tried to sue the producers of "Alexander!" Looks to me they were infected with some kind of faith-psychosis!
EdM021 1 year ago
well not all of them. but 99% haha
lesgaybitrans 1 year ago
@lesgaybitrans Definitely. And ChristPsychosis is the worst. After Constantine invented the Roman Catholic Church, subsuming all previous forms of Christianity, the Christians inherited a perfectly functioning and tolerant GrecoRoman civilization and destroyed EVERYTHING. If it weren't for the Muslims preserving the writings and resourceful Christian monks scraping and writing over old documents, we wouldn't know anything about ancient Greece or Rome.
EdM021 1 year ago
Omg!!!! active and passive? despite what you're trying to sale they were not into anal sex. Your just trying to legitimise a modern feminising practice. homosexual does not equal anal sex. Anal sex is an imitation of male-female intercourse-thus the question who is the woman in the relationship?
dstewart28 1 year ago
there is not always a man and a woman in a relationship. get out of your gender binay system. for freaking out loud
lesgaybitrans 1 year ago
SocratesxAlciabades is my OTP.
Mokumokuren13 1 year ago
The first study on this stuff was made by the British Scholar Kenneth Dove guided by the Jew George Devereux for obvious reasons.
Anyone who speaks Greek and can understand the basics on Plato and ancient Philosophy, already knows that all this homosexuality British-born myth is aimed to totally uneducated people.
pitsimitsi 1 year ago
whatever. go read their books and then come post again
lesgaybitrans 1 year ago
Bisexuality was not necessarily practiced. The ancient Greeks were strictly Homosexual using women only for procreation; One of the reasons they so easily assimilated into Roman culture, their numbers were small...............their numbers, mind you
PantsThatDontFit 1 year ago
keep in mind it was religion that reinforced the ancient Greek ways. Religion is not always the enemy. It merely needs to be wrestled away from the barbarians who have subverted it to evil ends. Review the myths of Ganymede, Apollo & Hyacinth, Hercules & ?, Achilles & his lover...(?)...Neptune & ?
goofytwoshoes 1 year ago
i don't understand this phrase. christianity destroyed ancient greece.
lesgaybitrans 1 year ago
@lesgaybitrans the Greeks had religion before Christianity. Remember, paganism is a religion--what we call "mythology" today was religion to our ancestors.
goofytwoshoes 1 year ago
well paganism is one 'religion', christianity is another one already!
the first walks along with nature, the second demonizes everything in the name of the sin. let's not compare these two religions. christianity and islam are our enemies
lesgaybitrans 1 year ago
@lesgaybitrans You are absolutely right!
The Judaic-Christian - Islamic religions have perverted the beauty of life.
The Ancient Greeks were right.
Nevertheless today the Greeks are Christians. They have absolutely nothing to do with the Ancient Greeks, who were smart and awesome. In fact you can see that Greeks nowadays are ugly and fat like the Americans!
It is a pity that the Greeks have forgotten their ancestors and that they became intolerant Christians.
48acar19 1 year ago
it's not just the religion and the gay thing.
christianity has affected many parts of people's mind, even about straight people
if you don't get married in church, they stare at you strange.
christianity is poison
lesgaybitrans 1 year ago 3
@lesgaybitrans Christianity was chased by the Romans and then the battle started. Ancient Greeks were under the Roman Empire at those times
pitsimitsi 1 year ago
you must take some history lessons. again go read the books
lesgaybitrans 1 year ago
@lesgaybitrans They started to fall as a super power when the christian church came to be.
iphonefetish 1 year ago
haha
lesgaybitrans 1 year ago
to bad the world isent as open about there sex as they where back in the day
bubba666king 2 years ago
christianity, you know...
one god religions...'
poison
religious fascism....
lesgaybitrans 1 year ago 2
OMG! those poor children. ;-(
onlyonesimone 2 years ago 2
Omg hot. ._.
I thought I loved ancient Greece at first, but now... I wanna time machine. :c
I WANNA ERASTHS. Dx
This was good information that I needed. Thank you. c: And fuck religion for ruining these kinds of things. >:c
kevkajdas 2 years ago 36
Long live the PERSIANS
thats all i can say
TR3Y4LI4E 2 years ago
haha
meaning?
lesgaybitrans 2 years ago
Meaning Persians 4 Life!
TR3Y4LI4E 2 years ago
what music is this?
heydrichmuller 1 year ago
AMEN TO THAT.
TormentoftheDahaka 2 years ago
Doesn't everyone know that alexander and Hephaistion were lovers and that homosexual relationships in ancient Greece were part of the social fabric without the paranoid demented bigotry that is foud today, especially in poisoned evangelical USA..........it's becoming as bad as islam !
rickT5555 2 years ago 50
homosexuality generally in ancient world was something normal. then christianity came and demonized everything. well yeah, Alexander and Hephaistion we so much in love, i totally get inspired!
lesgaybitrans 2 years ago
Wasnt there some statue found in Greece of two men holding each others penises.
Jenfucius 2 years ago
not only in ancient greece, but in every ancinet society
lesgaybitrans 2 years ago
I believe you.
Jenfucius 2 years ago
to statenlslandSpartan: the reason i am not allowing your comments is because you stupid nationalists and litttle fascists have become boring telling the same tape every thime. your lifestyle, and you ar ehiding the truth blah blah blah.. i sugggest you read the more info and all the books i mention. then we will see who is wrong. im not hiding anything. i am just protecting the beauty of this video.
lesgaybitrans 2 years ago
just because your ignorant morons don't understand the meaning of homosexuality that doesn't mean that we are going to spend several hours teaching. i suggest you begin with my videos. homophobia is a illness, you know ;). the reason i have rights is the same reason EVERY person has right...we live in the civilized world. and like it or not, homosexuality is a human right. we don't - REALLY- give a fuck about what happened back then (althought it's clear what happened). it's just history.
lesgaybitrans 2 years ago
and you have quit misunderstood the meaning of democracy. people like you in the west civilized world wouldn't have the right to speak and preach hate. even if they didn't agree with the historical view, they would just try to prove the opposite. and no one has managed to do that so far. great scientists AND NOT ONLY GAY have come to the conclusion about ancient greece and the whole ancient world too. just because from the moment you are bong they have taught taht homosexual behavior is bad,
lesgaybitrans 2 years ago
sinful, hateful etc that doesn't mean it's true. try to get over it, accept the history of your people and get a freakin life. I was doing the mistake for some time to let people like you comment free and the video went fucked up. oh im sorry, that's not gonna happen again. bb
lesgaybitrans 2 years ago
Everyone's so inflamed no one bothered to praise the music in the video. What is it by the way and whose is it? Thanx.
heydrichmuller 1 year ago
i added the music throught youtube. i don't remember the title. it's odd that statistics and data won't show anything (they usually show to the owner of the video). I will search and I will tell you
lesgaybitrans 1 year ago
I would also really like to know about Alexander's sexuality, cause everyone says that is just gossip that he had a relationship with another guy.. does anyone knows where can i find any information about it? thanks.
demco27 2 years ago
ok.. i must say that i was really surprised when i saw this video cause i had no idea about these facts were going on in ancient Greece but i don't really believe that actually these facts are true. Maybe those ancient scripts were just stories or something. Do we actually have any proofs that these were really happening?
demco27 2 years ago
if these ancient scrips are jus stories, then the whole history about ancinet greece is story my friend. ar eyou kidding me? yes, we have proves. THE TEXTS and SO MANY PICTURES SAVED. these are just stories? about alexander, he was probably a bisexual in the scale 5 in kinsey's scale. he respected women and he believed that they are good just for procreation. his greatest love was Hephaistion. When he died, he went mad. YOu don't go mad for just a typical frend. check the more info
lesgaybitrans 2 years ago
In fact it was shameful if a teenage boy did not have a male lover in Ancient Greece.
AlphaPegasii 2 years ago 2
nope, you are wrong. pedophiles are sick and are fantasizing kids under 12. pederasty is about young teenagers. pedophilia was not accepted even back then. the boy had to be at least 12 years old, which means a teenager. :)
lesgaybitrans 2 years ago
Um, a a child isn't a teenager until thirTEEN (13). Anyhow, the incorrect usage of the word "consisted" in this video, gave me a headache.
simplysubdued 2 years ago
we are talkinga bout different civilizations and societies. a 12 years old boy back then was alreday a teen, considering people lived till 40. anyhow, sorry for the grammar mistakes :P. i did it a litle bit quiclky, maybe i will upload a corrected version. the point is that you got what i wanted to say haha
lesgaybitrans 2 years ago
Actually, you're wrong. The concept of the "teen" in Ancient Greece did not exist. They just saw a 12 year old as a more mature boy than the younger boys. I'm not aware if they had a different term for when boys reached that age of maturity. Compared to where a 12 year old in contemporary America is a pain in the ass.
simplysubdued 2 years ago
hahahaha ok
i just have to add that rules existed. the boy choose his erasth by himself you know.
lesgaybitrans 2 years ago
well i don't think this is relevant...
the point of this video is to demonstrate that ancient greeks were not homosexuals...
Marinemauro 2 years ago
excuse me? that' the message you got? hahahha
the point of this video is to sho that ancient greeks were not more or less homosexuals as we are today. sexual orientation exists in a standarn percent in every generation. and the majority is bisexuality, and that' s was the rule, the bisexual behavior. homosexuals existed too and nothing told them anything (except athens where they didnt' have political rights like women didn't) and heterosexuals too.
lesgaybitrans 2 years ago
homosexiality exists in various forms you know so i would say they were homosexuals in the same way we are today. exclusive homosexuals is a litle percent for sure. that was something normal and tolerant in ancient greece too (besides the bisexual orientation)
lesgaybitrans 2 years ago
However the rest of Greece seemed to approve of pederasty, provided it conformed to the strict rules of each region. In the symposium, The land of Thebes and Boetia was said to actively encourage young men to grant favours to older men, whereas the rules in Athens were very difficult to understand. Plato said that to test what sort of man you were going out with was the way to ensure it was a noble act, but if it was done for money then it was shameful.
BOSIE321 2 years ago 2
exactly. it was the prostitution that was forbidden :D.
Athenians were very lustful for young teenagers! :P!
there is nothing diffucult to understand! they knew they had to procreate to continue life so every man had to get married. then they used to cage women in the houses and run for yound boys and female prostitutes. hahaha
lesgaybitrans 2 years ago
pederasty is not pedophilia. pederasty is about prepared yound teenagers. pedophilia is abusing kids under the age of 12.
seriously people, ignorance is the most stupid thing in the world.
pederasty was normal, but the homosexual pederasty.
homosexuality in general was something normal, just in some ancient cities did not allow the sex between two men.
lesgaybitrans 2 years ago
is this really true? why havent they mention this in the history channel ???
sk89522 2 years ago
what history channel?
lesgaybitrans 2 years ago
this video promoting fucking pedophilia as well.
tarchea 2 years ago
how incredibly stupid and ignorant can you be?
1st)pedophilia is fantazing kids under the age of 12! open your shrink manual first and then post, useless ignorant user!
2nd) morality is something relative. In ancient world the morals were different. The whole relationship existed in order to protect the yound 'boy' too.
3rd) people back then lived the half the time we live nowadays. A yound boy around 12 - 13 was already a modern teenager.
lesgaybitrans 2 years ago
So we are talking about pederasty, not pedophilia. You stupid ignorant! Even so, pedophlia is a paraphilia. noone is trying to promote or support it. so just get over it
lesgaybitrans 2 years ago
u people hate the fact that we are free and u are not u cant even go to the store without getting blown up
grkpower 2 years ago
ok. not go to your shrink! :P!
lesgaybitrans 2 years ago
well thanks but this video was not made for 'gay' pride. it was made for historical reasons. Some people are trying to present ancient greece like iran. well, they can take it into their ashes :D
lesgaybitrans 2 years ago
Thank you 'lesgaybitrans' for clarifying this information, good stuff is always helpful
johnlopez66 2 years ago 2
Thank you for the imformation, it feels kind of different when you read this kind of stuff
johnlopez66 2 years ago 2
did they tell you that homsoexuality was always not acceptable? :P
the suffering for homosexual people began during the middle ages. (if this is the correct word :X). that's when the separation between normal and abnormal began.
jew - christianic - islamic bigotry :D
lesgaybitrans 2 years ago
And who needed male prostitues when they had an erasth (if they were young) or an eromeno (if you were an adult).
johnlopez66 2 years ago
well the problem wasn't the prostitution by itself. it was the philosophy behind it. if a man would sell his body so easily for money, there was no guarantee that he wouldn't sell his country as easy as his body. or maybe, he would definitely sell his country for some money. that's the reason they allowed only female prostitution (women didn't have 'political' rights). from the other side, it was not acceptable for a man not to get married and create a family. the bisexual behavior was the rule
lesgaybitrans 2 years ago
Wow good stuff! when you get time can you swap out the music for some deep house. That track reminds me of the closet queens from boarding school days whose fear of a good party made them such sadists.
seechrns 2 years ago
lol for crying out loud. i found the music amazing! lol
lesgaybitrans 2 years ago
it is in it's own way, but can you imagine trying to assist some repressed closet queen to get in touch with their inner beat freak with those sounds? come on now, you know you need a gentle probing thumping house beat ... oh yes, here he comes now prancing down the corridor in his thug gear Ooop Oooop!
seechrns 2 years ago
hahahahahahahahhahahahahahah
im not going to change. let the closet queens beat themselves. hahahaha
lesgaybitrans 2 years ago
the ethics and the morality in the ancient world was different. im not claiming if it's right or wrong. yes women did not have rights in ancient world. also, i don't see how this video can be used against homosexuals. because i describe the world kinaidoi? but there was nothing against them. also ancients greeks had a different aspect about 'political rights' . the bisexual behavior was th=e accepted one. plus, in many cities of greece this age difference wasn't necessary. a 12 or 13 years old
lesgaybitrans 2 years ago
boy back then was already a teenager (considering people lived till the age of 40 ! ). don't try to emulate today modern society with these ancients societies. and i didn't say that every greek person was gay. and i also didn't say that male prostitutes were more! on the contrary, im saying that they forbid male prostitution! i don't see why you are so negative against this video :S
lesgaybitrans 2 years ago
Just after they legalized homosexuality, they were conquered by Romans, then when they legalized homosexuality, they were conquered by Goths, now we legalized homosexuality we will be conquered by muslims, comunists, anyone with higher spirituality and stricter social rules... Homosexuality like Pandora's box.. or something like that.. but it often occured on the dawn of civilization...
Levasc 2 years ago
hehe... it's funny how bigots are trying to find scapegoats. Just after? homosexuality and pederasty existed in ancient greece long before they were conquered. And after they were conquered, they continued to exist. you pathetic loser. it's christianity that came and made homosexuality illegal. Now that we legalize homosexuality, more people will be happy and free to live with their same sex partners. Instead of blaming same sex love, i suggest you read history first and find out the true
lesgaybitrans 2 years ago
reasons that every civilization was destroyed, and that was mainly the inhumanity towards each other (just like you do with innoncent people that havent hurt anybody, tits homosexuals), and of course MONEY. Money and power is the main reason most of them were destroyed. ). And to end this meaningless answer to your also meaningless post, you are the true shame for every country, FASCISTS. Not get lost
lesgaybitrans 2 years ago
good point
BostonEm 2 years ago
but i thought that sparta and creet were against homosexuality, especaily the spartans, because the main goal in spartan scociety was to have fit healthy sons to die in battle, well... you llearn somthing new every day :)
BeleraphonTD 2 years ago
and why is having homosexuality as part of their lives makes them unhealthy? :SSSS. I can't understand what kind of image of pic do you have about homosexuality in your mined. About same sex attraction, meaning. Start with APA and DSM - IV .
lesgaybitrans 2 years ago
hey im not against homosexuality im a yotube gay right activist, i just like to learn about history, ancient greek polotics being one of my favoourit subjects, sorry if you got the wrong idea by that comment! : )
BeleraphonTD 2 years ago 2
The Spartans had a long history of homosexuality.
RalleyWolf 2 years ago
between a "lover" and his "beloved" teenage boy there was no penetration...according to the Athenian "rules" the lover would just push or rub his pennis against the thigh of the beloved until he finished on his thigh...the was neither oral sex nor anal sex....the boy should remain calm without any sign of pleasure ..he wasnt supposed to enjoy all this procedure..he was just participating in order to please his lover..he would become a lover himself as well as an adult..
greekmadnessss 2 years ago
i answered you to my other video too :) . Well this is something is not believed from official resources. Just like it's mentioned in my video, there is a lot of evidence that talk clearly about anal sex. The sex between 2 adults was considered shameful (from some, others didn't care that much :P).
lesgaybitrans 2 years ago
One of the sad facts of history is that the Christians Church tried to destroy every vestige of Sappho's writings. What we have today are fragments.
BeatBuddy 2 years ago
exactly. 600 lines are left from her great work. The other was burned from church. What did that work inside it that made this capitalistic mechanism burn it? i wonder :P...
lesgaybitrans 2 years ago
ουτε το κρυβανε ουτε το φωναζανε .
εσυ γιατι το φωναζεις???
κανε δουλεια σου.............κι ΑΝ σε ρωτησουν αν εισαι ομο πες ναι !
ellamou 2 years ago 2
episis to kanali mou einai ena enimerotiko kanali pou asxoleitai me tis sexualikes meionotites. to exo ftiaksei gia kathara enimerotikous kai pliroforiakous logous. mias kai edo stin ellada iparxei mia skopimi parapliroforisi kai genikotera oi ellines einai ligo amorfotoi se polla themata, ara kai sto thema ton sexual minorities. den fonazo kati se prosopiko epipedo. apo tin alli, giati na min mporo na to fonazo? eisi giati na fonazeis oti eisai straight? den katalabaino... isotita den xoume?
lesgaybitrans 2 years ago
eipa an eimai strait h oxi???
ellamou 2 years ago
den exei simasia TI eisai. ta sxolai ta diabazei polis kosmos. as perastoune kapoia minimata ;)
lesgaybitrans 2 years ago
μονος ειπες οτι οι αρχαιοι ουτε το κρυβανε ουτε το φωναζανε . εσυ τι προβλημα εχεις και οριεσαι ????
ellamou 2 years ago
me ton idio akribos tropo pou kapoioi blammenoi theloune sonei kai kala na mas apodeiksoune oti itane straight, me ton idiko akribos tropos ego leo tin diki mou apopsi. den exoa politos kanena problima. to na ftiaxneis ena istoriko video kathe allo para problima einai. me pianeis?
lesgaybitrans 2 years ago
hi its a good video. I think your video shows a part of truth but also a part of false. In Ancient Greece, bisexuality was NOT well seen. We can definitively see it with the texts of the philosophs.
Παντος γιατι, εισει, ενα ελλήνας θελείς να ελαπώσεις την αρχαια ελλαδα ?
zhitohellas 2 years ago
i was thinking not to allow your comment, but you insist. bisexuality was WELL seen and not only in ancient greece but in all the ancient world. that's proves and stop your miserable christianic propaganda. and please, don't try to pretend you are objective, when you think that talking about homosexuality in ancient greece reduces it. that's christianic morality talking and that's what i hate most to stupid fascists like you. Homosexuality is nothing to be ashamed of, no vice, no degradation. cu
lesgaybitrans 2 years ago
I thought Plato said that it depends on the region of Hellenic people. In Ionia and other countries under barbarians, according to Pausanius in the symposium, it was shameful for a young man to love an older man, in Boeotia and Thebes it was actually encouraged, and in Sparta and Athens the rules of bisexuality were complicated.
I know Plato in his later works such as the laws and the republic was dismissive of bisexuality but his earlier works seem to show its prevalence in Hellas.
BOSIE321 2 years ago
plato forbid the sex between two adults.
the relationship between erasths and eromenos turned into a sexual one and had the characteristic of the initiation of yound teenagers in the adult life.
i don't know if what you said about ionia is true. i know that except ancient athens and crete, the age difference was really shameful. the spartans blamed athenians for this age difference.
lesgaybitrans 2 years ago
but generally, homosexuality was something normal during ancient times. tolerance/acceptance of various forms of homosexuality was more or less during the ancient times but for the first time homosexuality was forbiden in the 6th century AD. that is the most defined historical truth :)
lesgaybitrans 2 years ago
Thanks for reply.
Plato said that different regions in Greece had different rules. In Ionia, if I remember correctly, it was considered shameful, along with gymnastics and philosophy, which were considered shameful too. All of these things promoted individuality and powerful bonds between men and one has to remember that Ionia was, unlike the rest of Hellas, only just free from the Persian rule . They didnt want men forging strong bonds, hence why Plato said they were intolerant of pederasty.
BOSIE321 2 years ago
although, i must add that Plato forbid 'morally' the sex between 2 adults. In the area of anciet athens, adult homosexuality was something tolerant but you can say that it went against their every day habits the sex between 2 adult men. However, the man and the boy fucked really well. HAHAHAHAHA. just something i forgot to mention =)
lesgaybitrans 2 years ago
to mackjeej: since you can't ger over yourself and not be rude (showing actually how ignorant you are), your comments won't be allowed. i suppose you are hucking around like a straight animal... straights are not animals, they are humans that's the reason they have sex only for procreation. HAHAHAHAHA. block, and really, reaaaaaaally you need to get a shrink. i ve seen my share of straight too. unfortunately, we are talking about ignorant lower level iq bigots. too bad :D
lesgaybitrans 2 years ago
ps2 and uneducated too :DDDDDDDD
lesgaybitrans 2 years ago
Actually your statements are false and have been debunked multiple times, in Ancient greece`s laws it was considered a crime to be a homosexual punishable by death. The vases and paintings portrayed were Taboo and not a household item. The popularity of the Ancient Greek Gay theory was popularized by homesexual authors themselves such as walter pater, michel foucalt, john boswell, john winkler and david halperin, don`t say it was accepted because you feel better about yourself
mackjeez 2 years ago
lol. the only thing that punishable was the male prostitution, for the reasons I explain in the more info.yeah yeah, the vases were a taboo, not representations. LOOOOOOOOL! i must inform you that most of the scientists that studied homosexuality in ancient greece are straight themselves. stop coming from the propaganda of some greek stupid videos from the the party of LAOS and face the facts: homosexuality was something so natural for ancients greeks, just like heterosexuality. i have no need
lesgaybitrans 2 years ago
to turn to ancient greeks to feel better. we all know that in every ancient civilization homosexuality was accepted as part of their lives. later, the christianic religions and islam (the religions you are truly poisoned from) came and changed everything. you keep calling me sick, but maybe YOU are sick when you are influenced by the perverted morality of your one god religions, and at t he same time you consider yourself ancient greek lover. this is laughable by itself. now, get over yourself
lesgaybitrans 2 years ago
Have you actually ever read the symposium? If you have you cant tell me that homosexuality didn't exist in ancient Greece. The majority of scholars are actually heterosexual and they all agree that homosexual acts took place in ancient greece.
BOSIE321 2 years ago
don't even bother guys. if someone is able of objective conversation i will allow his comments. don't lose time with christianic garbage ;)
lesgaybitrans 2 years ago
mackjeez, fuck off we alredi know the truth, quit trying to destroy historical truth to make urself feel better, it only proves u have the worst illness known to man - HOMOPHOBIA. so y are u so afraid of us? maybe coz u cling onto women to make yourself feel like u never left your mothers womb LMFAO go suck on your mothers tits some more and while ur at it, go tell the greek orthodox church to get over their prejudice or go to hell, seeing that they are the onli ones that believe in such a place
cyprokka 2 years ago
don't even bother guys. if someone is able of objective conversation i will allow his comments. don't lose time with christianic garbage ;)
lesgaybitrans 2 years ago
so the only real way it can be proven is finding a text written by a transexual of the time, stating that they felt they were meant to be born as a woman.
cyprokka 2 years ago
start by watching the video response :)
lesgaybitrans 2 years ago
to the spanish at the time, all native americans would hav been seen as wearing womens clothes coz of differences between cultures. and effeminacy dusnt prove sexuality coz thers heaps of straight ppl that are very feminine. so to get the truth u wud hav to go to pre-christian times but ofcourse they had no word in any civilisation back then that can directly translate to modern english to mean transexuality (as it wud most probably be confused with homosexuality).
cyprokka 2 years ago
you said it yourself. what's a man or a woman behavior is defined from the society. we may think that being feminine is a woman's behavior, because that's how we teach boys and girls, but in other times and societies, the feminine behavior (what we cal feminine ;) ) was the man behavior. please read the very first article in my blog. it will solve you all your questions about transsexuality
lesgaybitrans 2 years ago
so i wud like to ask u if u hav any proof of transexual existence before jewish and christian times. in native america, wen the spanish came to take over, they found a tribe that was aparently all transexuals. but this cant reli be proven coz they say the ppl of the tribe all wore womens clothes and acted very feminine.
cyprokka 2 years ago
you can now watch the video response. you will see that transexuality and transvestism (transgender) existed too.
lesgaybitrans 2 years ago
i think transexuality actually is an invention of our time. as sum gay people may grow up hearing and believing stupid stereotypical homophobic comments such as "gay guys are like girls", i think to sum ppl it actually sticks with them and may affect them in such a way that they actually start believing they are women.
according to my theory, trans. wud only hav been created wen christianity came about coz before that (as seen in ancient greece) homosexual relations were part of cultures.
cyprokka 2 years ago
no. that's what christianity poisoned. and that's what some are doing to gays and lesbians today, forcing them to change their sex so that they can later continue as heterosexuals. for example Iran. that's a crime against a lesbian or gay but still, religion is poison and continues to crusify homosexuals :S. how men or women are we, this is the gender identity, it doesn't come from our sexual organs, it's a product of social training. don't confuse sex with gender identity.
lesgaybitrans 2 years ago
this is clearly not innate as the meaning is to change from 1 gender to the other.but leaving this aside, i cant reli see it part of human nature to change sexes.i hav formed the opinion that transexuals are simply gay men that cannot deal with their sexuality so they establish themselves as women to make more sense out of their feelings. this is probably wrong, & i would really like to accept their ways, but i cant see it being right in any way for a man to completely turn himself into a woman.
cyprokka 2 years ago
no. trans people are not gay. i answered you. you now some transsexuals continue as homosexuals later? lesbian trans womens and gay trans men? it's because they changed their sex into the right one, but the orientation still remains towards the same - now - sex. if you read the very first article in my blog you will understand better. take a look!
lesgaybitrans 2 years ago
wow! thank you so much! this makes a lot more sense than the stupid close minded patriotic greek clips on youtube. thank you once again for providing us with the truth of homosexuality in ancient greece, i believe every word written in this clip :D
cyprokka 2 years ago 2
thank you very much :). I try to be objective with historical facts. now the stupid close minded patriotic greeks are parodies of greeks. they worhship ancient Greece and then they judge it with christianic morality. it's freaking funny. fascists and bigots do the most harm in every country, for their own country!
lesgaybitrans 2 years ago
yes! you are totally right :) i would like to ask u something tho. i believe hetero, homo and bisexuality are all innate, above that i think even if its not reli innate for certain people, it is human nature to explore sexuality and there is nothing wrong with that, i am bisexual myself. but one thing iv never really understood is transexuality.
cyprokka 2 years ago
transexuality and trangender people are natural as well :). some people know since they are young that they are born in wrong body. that's transexuality. it has nothing to do with orientation, but with the sex of a person. not even the gender identity.
lesgaybitrans 2 years ago
GREAT JOB!
All can learn a lot from history.one of the lessons could be that we can handle our future
Giorgioarmani84 2 years ago
Thank you for providing this much needed look at homosexuality from a historical perspective. You have done an great job & regardless of what the bigots may try to cover up, they will never change recorded history. We should all make a concerted effort to preserve our history so it does not remain distorted & bypassed by the academic community, that is always under attack by the Religions when they tell the "truth" rather than just glossing history with an "ignorant" edited "Hollywood" version.
empressefireland 2 years ago 4
yeah... it's funny how they keep bubbling about a 'homosexual agenda' when most of the historians that studied homosexuality in ancient Greece were heterosexual themselves! ahaha! It's even more funnier that they call themselves patriots and worship ancient Greece and at the same time they believe in christianity. Sometimes I want to push them from the edge of a cliff. rofl! good morning!
lesgaybitrans 2 years ago
The Gods Apollo, Zeus and Pan have loving relationships with other Men throughout greek mythology. It wasn't just Greek culture. Homosexual relationships is part of their religion. Same goes for some Heroes like Acillies. Greece was a Man's world.
You'll see similar attitudes in China, Rome, Japan and Native America. It's fact that humanity was more sexually free before Christianity.
ginkiba3 2 years ago 2
exactly. all ancient religions had homosexuality in their culture... polytheist religions don't demonize love in any form... and of course the whole world was like that before christianity. the bisexual behavior was the accepted one.! :P!
lesgaybitrans 2 years ago
Cool video,.
BOSIE321 2 years ago 4