Heartbreaking Scene

[slickbritchick]

Toby deserved better than they give him at the end.

[zachary1215]

I liked the exchange between them when (after a set-up) Josh said, "If you were in the hospital, I wouldn't stop for a beer." And Donna replies, "If you were in the hospital, I wouldn't stop for red lights."

(Makes more sense when you see it in context.

[ScottyUrb]

1:18 "...like me saying I'm a foregin relations expert because I ordered kung pao last night." That reminds me of the famous "I can see Russia from my house" line from real life!

[ImperatorDominus]

Dude..! WTF. Hire her ass!

[floortje86]

can anyone tell me what the west wing is about in terms of story lines I know its political and all but what happens?

[Hama8382]

yeah, but I won...

my favourite line of the scene

[HarmonyMady]

HIS VOICE WHEN HE SAYS THAT

[benjaminpwallen]

I liked what happened to Toby. That shit happens. All the time. Cheers to not being like every other show. JUST like the WIRE.

[duckwrangler]

this was how they should have left it - putting them together was as bad as when Maddy Hayes and David Addison got together in MOONLIGHTING. But the WEST WING had long since jumped the shark before the final season.

[labour77]

And if you think i dont miss you every day... love how his voice breaks up at the end :)

[fireflyfan1]

Good man Josh. Pleasure delayer :)

[noobreloaded]

I am looking for a new series to get into. I am going to be wrapping up Six Feet Under and I am thinking about either The Sopranos or The West Wing. Does anyone have any suggestions? (I am looking for a serious drama)

[ALDERSHOT732]

@noobreloaded the sopranos, it a very serious drama and just like six feet under it has a very dark hummor to it, weither its storylines or the way its made it has everything,

[proken58]

WInning presidential nominees often hire general electuon campaign staffers from primary losers' campaigns - Obama's campaign took on several Hillary campaign staffers. They have experience and they want their party's nominee to win. Josh could have hired Donna in a "behind the scenes" post where her past comments wouldn't have been an issue.

[dinomom71]

Actually Donna was not hired as an assistant to Mrs. Santos at first... she was hired by Lou to do Midwest PR during the tramp stamp episode. Josh was ticked that Lou hired her, but was basically told to deal with it. So, he did... Ended up finding her invaluable, and fell in love with her even more.

[msudreaming]

So Donna has Mrs. Santos's thong underwear to thank?

[LEWISH9]

West Wing was the besty of American Politics only surpassed by the Baby Bush presidency which was the worse in every sence

[msudreaming]

So how did Donna end up on the Santos campaign?

[PeterFormaini]

Her candidate in the primary, Russell, lost. And Josh came around later on and needed her expertise and talent to help his guy - despite her working for a rival earlier.

[stevegoff420]

she became an assistant to Mrs Santos during the campaign. It happened when photos surfaced that Mrs Santos had a "tramp stamp" on her lower back and she wore thong underwear. She (Donna) offered to do PR for Mrs Santos and later became her (first lady) Chief of Staff when he won.

[emmyjo720]

Josh never liked Russell, it goes back to Mandy who also worked for him and against Bartlet...I think he was also right because it would lack credibility if someone who had attacked Santos so viciously joined the campaign....It would make Donna look like an oppurtuniest...

[jrs0268]

Actually, the Russell Mandy worked for (and dated) was Lloyd, not "Bingo" Bob.

[shriramvenu]

mandy worked for lloyd russel not bingo bob!

[keiko52]

I believe it was mentioned in some conversations with C.J and Toby that toby could have cleared himself of any crimes in leaking the top secret info of a military space shuttle, by revealing that it was his brother that originally told him of it's exsitance. Since Toby was never sworn to secrecy, he was free to tell anyone he wanted to w/o fear of prosecution. but he reffused to say it was his brother because his brother would be discraced post mordum and toby's honor wouldn't let him do it.

[watkinsonatdal]

no, your under an obligation of confidentiality if you know or ought to have known that the information was confidential, and it would be a breach of some statutory device or another to pass on such information to third parties. Toby was an employee of the federal government, and would have been sworn under whatever statute is required for his job, and at the minimum it would have included national security measures.

[abfirefighterchick]

I actually didn't care for the last couple of seasons.  What did happen with Toby?

[nekp81]

Aaron Sorkin left the show after season 4 (I think) and it showed in the characters. I thought Toby was a bastard in the last few seasons, whereas I liked him initially.

[MPB100]

He was fired for leaking details of the secret military space shuttle and was prosecuted. However, the very final act of President Bartlett was to pardon Toby for his offences.

[abfirefighterchick]

Thanks for the information, I really did stop watching the last season in particular. I think that the replacement writers after Sorkin did the show an eminence injustice with the way they took the characters and the storyline to a certain extent.

I don't believe that the Toby that Sorkin created would have ever done that. He wouldn't have believed that the President would do anything to hurt the country.

[Cabaret43]

no bigger fan of the WW than me but 2 things that always bothered me.. that Josh and Donna never got together pre Sorkin...and what they did with Richard Schiffs character...Toby deserved so much better

[Colloquielle]

Completely agree re: Toby, but the Josh/Donna thing while she was still his assistant would've squicked me out. Maybe it's just because the notion of sleeping with my boss makes me feel like I should be calling in a HAZMAT team... ;)

[bananiepie]

Toby really deserved more than what they did to him in the end

[AMYLYN78]

@Cabaret43 Totally agree! JOsh and Donna...waited far too long! As for Toby!? what the heck...completely screwed over a powerful and smart character! :(

[aleji0]

@Cabaret43 If you are a Sports Night nut the first issue should not be a surprise and Casey and Dana was far more pivotal than Josh and Donna.

[tobiojo10]

@Cabaret43 Toby should have been a key memeber of the Santos administration, as least deputy COS or communications director again

[SonOfGod3000]

@Cabaret43 Enough with the Toby deserved better crap. You must not have watched the West wing series from the beginning because Toby and the President always sparred on morals and the differences they both had. The main three episode where Toby told the president not to execute a man on death row.. Barlet later repents. The 2nd being the M.S. disclosure, another clash was line of sucession should the president be incapacitated and lastly was the military space shuttle. There is a history of Toby

[SonOfGod3000]

Of Toby and the President clashing of morals and ideals which is why when the President is firing him for leaking the details about the military space shuttle he says something to the effect of i guess this was always going to be how it ended and the president went on to say Toby always felt he was morally superior to the President, follow the series, Toby's actions were perfectly in line with the chracter he was earlier and any notion his ending was botched just shows fans have no clue

[jessikins]

Ow! My heartstrings!

[goargh]

This is not a heartbreaking video, it's just another video clip showing the genius of Josh. "Yeah, but I won"

[jimbopumbapigsticks]

Betrayed.

[jimmyb227]

The charccter of Donna was so overrated- don't get me wrong, I have nothing against Janel Maloney, but her character should have never been elevated to such importance. On the same level, CJ as Chief of Staff? The only decision that was worse!

[jimbopumbapigsticks]

I agree. The logical choice would have been to bump up Josh or bring in someone from outside. The show just wasn't the same after Sorkin left.

[warblerab]

I agree that the show wasn't the same since Sorkin left.  But I disagree that Donna was overrated.

[jimbopumbapigsticks]

Don't get me wrong, she was one of my favourite characters, and Janel Moloney is a babe. But she wasn't given much of a personality after S4. And she would have never betrayed Josh like that - it was totally out-of-character. Same goes for Toby and Bartlet.

[warblerab]

jimbopumbapigsticks, I agree they didn't handle her character properly after Sorkin left. But I don't feel see betrayed Josh. She felt she could do more with her career and felt unappreciated by Josh. At the time she quit and went to work for the Russel campaign, she had no idea that Josh was going to try to get Santos to run. She had no idea she was going to be working for Josh's competition. By the time she found out, it was too late. I don't call that a betrayal

[jimbopumbapigsticks]

She applied for her job as a college drop-out by pretending she already had the job. Then, after Josh hired her, she quit, and later Josh rehired her. Add to that that their's was an especially close working relationship. She could have gotten a pretty good job in the private sector instead of joining the campaign of a guy that Josh disdained and didn't want to see become President. That sounds like a betrayel to me.

[warblerab]

jimbopumbapigsticks, she wasn't offered a job in the private sector. She was offered a job with the Russel campaign. If Russel had won, she'd have a job in the White House. Career-wise, it was the right move. Josh can't expect her to do otherwise. It would only be betrayal if she knew that Josh was going to get Santos to run and that Russel would be Josh's competition .  But she didn't know that.

[Colloquielle]

And give up the career trajectory she really wanted? Nah. I can see why he was hurt, but she'd already left (harshly, because he kept avoiding her attempts to talk to him) by the time he started the Santos campaign - she had no idea that was in the offing, or I'm sure she'd have stuck around and angled for a job (successfully, too, I'm sure). Josh habitually underrated her to keep her as his senior assistant because it made his life easier - CJ nailed it, IMHO: he took her for granted.

[warblerab]

jimbopumbapigsticks, I assume you mentioned Toby being a betrayer because he was the leak. Who did Bartlet betray?

[jimbopumbapigsticks]

Yeah I meant Toby. Bartlet didn't betray anybody, just morphed into the grandfather out of King of the Hill.

[bigrob981]

sometimes you make decisions that cannot be erased by a simple appology.

there are consequences to you actions, donna made a choice. frankly she should hae had a little more class than putting josh in this position. she was trying to take advantage of his feelings for her....and that is not right.

[warblerab]

She wasn't trying to take advantage of anything. If Santos had lost the primary, are telling me Josh wouldn't have tried to get a job with the Russel Campaign? Donna had a job to do and she did it. Josh knew that. She had nothing to apologize for. He also knew that she could be a great help to the campaign. She was well qualified. Josh turned her down for personal reasons. He felt betrayed. If he truly couldn't hire her, how was it possible for her to join the campaign later on?

[BERGRS]

i think he would of reserected the Hoyne Campeighn and made him the president elect

[sunnchilde]

If Santos had had to bow out, Josh wouldn't have gone over to Bingo-Bob Russel. He had no respect for him. Vinick may have been the enemy, but at least he was competent. Would you REALLY want Bingo-Bob down in the bunker with his finger on the button? *I* would vote for Vinick before I would turn the White House over to that idiot.

[warblerab]

sunchilde, there is difference between going from Bingo-Bob to Santos, and going from Santos to Bingo-Bob. Also its one thing to vote for Vinick, but there no way someone who worked for Democratic campaign would be able to work for Vinick. Since Donna needed a job and Santos was competent . . .

[sunnchilde]

I didn't mean to imply that Josh would help Vinick. I just think if Santos had to drop out that Josh would have gone back to the White house or the DNC. Maybe he'd even go back to Texas with Congressman Santos.

There's a small chance he'd go off to work with Sam in the private sector.

[warblerab]

Is it really in the best interests of the Santos Campaign to decide not to hire someone as qualified as Donna just because of a little name calling? To not hire someone just because of name calling, sounds like a decision based on personal feelings rather than a professional decision based on the facts.

[bigrob981]

she joined the camaign later on because the writers sold out...and listened to people like you. she would have been a liability. imagine a debate...and vinick says " matt, how can you expect the people to vote for you your staff does not think your qualified....for instance donna moss thinks i should ask you about the overhead compartment, not forign policy"

[warblerab]

"she joined the camaign later on because the writers sold out" really? funny, I don't recall and major campaign by the fans to get the writers to this. Also I just checked wikipedia. There were only 36 days and 5 episodes between the airing of this scene and the episode where Donna gets hired. That hardly seems enough time for the fans to twist the arms of the writers. Do really believe the writers hadn't planned to have her hired by the Santos Campaign all along?

[warblerab]

"she would have been a liability." oh well then I guess Obama shouldn't have hired Hillary.

[darcskies777]

UH....YEAH he shouldnt have actually. She is just a public relations stunt to shut the women up.

[warblerab]

"UH....YEAH he shouldnt have actually. She is just a public relations stunt to shut the women up" huh?

[warblerab]

vinick says " matt, how can you expect the people to vote for you your staff does not think your qualified....for instance donna moss thinks i should ask you about the overhead compartment, not forign policy"

Santos' response "1. Donna is not the whole staff  2. Perhaps Donna has had a change of heart since she said those words. 3. I didn't hire Donna based on her political views. I hired her based on her abilities to do the job. (continued in next post)

[warblerab]

(Santos' response to Vinick continued from previous post) 4. I expect the people will be smart enough to make up their own minds and not let Donna do their thinking for them. How come you don't? "

[NoirMusic]

I totally agree with you, however just playing devil's advocate here, the Vinick Campaign could easily had more conservative reporters write articles using her comments peppered through out that campaign creating articles with lines like "Said one Santos staff memer "Matt....." "

[warblerab]

true but it would have been easy for the Santos campaign to clean up. Even they could clean it up, Josh should been more clear that he wasn't going to hire her because of what the Vinick campaign would do. The way this scene played out, it looks like Josh turned her down out of anger/revenge.

[BERGRS]

When did they hire her for the Santos ticket

[warblerab]

They hired her a few episodes after one in with this scene in it.

[NoirMusic]

True.... and I think that it is more likely that he was feelin' the burn in his ego. He's Josh!! :D

[warblerab]

exactly.

[warblerab]

What do you mean he didn't have a choice? He could have hired her if he had wanted too. Or are you trying to tell me Leo and/or Santos would have stopped him??? I think Josh felt betrayed was being a jerk because of it.

[dumbmuchx]

I'm sorry, but that's not heartbreaking. It just makes me mad at Donna. What did she think he was going to say? It's not like he had a choice.

[theforeman118]

donna should have been deputy. man that would have kicked ass. i know the show ended..but still. donna in a position that mattered would have rocked.

[sunnchilde]

This is gut wrenching to watch. She did say all those things, but I think this was more about him feeling like she betrayed him by leaving to work for Bingo-Bob. I'm SO glad this wasn't the end to their story.

[sunnchilde]

You're such a jackass.

[RacerGirl8807]

o dear god...that was just gut wrenching. And when she's walking out, you know EVERYONE in that place knows who she is, which makes it even worse. The only good thing about this is that I know what happened down the road for them. ;) *sigh*

[vpaturi]

Wow some of those scenes are actually coming to life now.

[northmind]

Sorkin = God

[rjspear]

The West Wing is one of the top 10 shows ever on TV.

[gaspodewb]

was gut wrenching then and has lost none of it's impact.

there will never been another West Wing but my god it was superb while it lasted.

[Lahela12]

dude, i'm like crying right now. at work. watching you tube. only west wing does this.

[ermineermine]

If only people in the real world spent their time at work the same way--nay, with even half as much integrity and dedication as--people in The West Wing spent theirs . . .

[sarlizwx]

I love the part where he at least admits that he misses her....wish he said "why" he missed her!!  Thanks for posting!