There are plenty of people born on this side of Atlantic who have never seen the strife in Northern Ireland. I grew up watching it. The British troops were not neutral peace keepers after the first 6 months of their deployment. They waged a war with PIRA and were beaten to stand still despite the help of NATO, Interpol, and even the KGB. After the worst beating a modern Western army has ever taken from a National Liberation movement the British agreed to same truce they could have had in 1974.
The Irish have been oppressed by the English. Until the island is given back completely there won't be peace. God bless Stan for such a beautiful song.
Yeah, I don't think Stan was anti *that* war so much as anti war in general, using this as a backdrop. But it was also about how he didn't want his children to be raised in a world of hatred and war.
To me he is saying that his ancestors may have come from elsewhere, but he is Canadian and that some of his ancestors helped build this country. Its drawing a line in the sand.
Great song; it rightly and equally blames the murdering criminals who make a living out of terrorism, and beautifully demonstrates that such behaviour is out of date, un-necessary, and hypocritical.
A song that was outdated when written. It's true that PIRA & Ulster Volunteer Force still fought now and then. However what not mentioned is the civil rights abuses that were and still occurring to Irish catholic in the common wealth. Glazed over is the Genocide that took place during the Potato famines it killed more than 1 Million Irish people plus the countless people who fled Ireland to America. It easy to say everybody kiss and makeup when your not the one who is doing the Kissing
To me Stan is saying that he Canadian and does not care about his ancestry and forgive and forget what has happened in the past. Some can it easier if your English or your have no family left in Ireland. It's a bit different if you do still have relatives living in Ireland
There was a time where you could be shot dead by the British for speaking your own language. It's about pride- it's about identity. If we're to kiss and make up, the Ulsters might as well win.
I'll smile at the Union Jack after I get my fuckin' country back.
I once performed this song acapella at a place in Washington DC called Food For Thought, vegetarian restaurant that catered to the more liberal minded residents of the Dupont Circle area. It got me banned. I guess they couldn't handle the truth.
@GarisMom Not really sure why. The management of the restaurant were very militant and I guess they couldn't handle someone pointing out that both sides have more than enough blood on their hands and that autonomy for the Northern Irish cannot be achieved at the end of a gun or by the use of car/satchel bombs.
The song condemns both sides of the conflict. My Irish Catholic grandfather had no time for the IRA. He said religion was only being used as an excuse to commit violence. Irish anywhere should have told the IRA and UDL to f-off, its not our war your fighting.
I agree. Both the UDI and the current incarnations of the IRA (no friend of the Church! ) are more akin to the Mafia than to a political movement. The Church as a faction in Ireland is more or less committed to the status quo...
people forget that in in canada religon cuased huge issues right up to thr 80s between catholics and protestants in canada,my parents were married in 1966 in saint john nb. Moms side of the family was scotch portestant, dads lebanese catholic (maronites), NOne of their families attended the wedding only their friends.Grampy on moms side was the president of the nd Orange Lodge Took years for the sides to learn to coexist,
The insane filthy far right wing in America ha salted the creative earth here so much it will take generations for your average American to understand the message of this song. One would think 9-11 would have served as a wake up call, but the filthy right wing just hit the snooze bar.
p.s. Tiny Fish from Japan was more about American commercial fisherman risking their lives to catch fish....that they can't eat......to sell to other countries for pennies a pound .....while the foreign countries then resell for HUGE profit.....I know this because my husband was an American commercial fisherman...
Understand that the Battle of the Boyne was fought in 1690 and was a fight for the British throne between Protestant King "Billy" and the Catholic King James.
William of Orange was victorious ...maintaining the Protestant rule in Ireland. But, yes sadly, this battle is ongoing to this day.....
I wish more Americans and Canadians understood that. The IRA was heavilly funded by donations from Irish-American and Irish-Canadian immigrants, spurred by talk of mangled ancient history used as propaganda. Never a mention of the carbombs ripping men, women and children to pieces as they went about their lives. Some knew very much what they were supporting, but most were just ignorant.
The song is not about the IRA specifically. "Yet the damned U.D.L. and the cruel I.R.A. Will tomorrow go murdering again." - a slight mistake on Stan's part - U.D.A. - Ulster Defense Association. Loyalists who "fight" to remain British - as scummy as any IRA man and probably twice as bigoted but half as smart. They claimed to be taking the war to the I.R.A. but the I.R.A. in their eyes was any Catholic. The message of the song is "To hell with the lot of you." Nobody should forget that.
i don't agree that any country should allow another country or force of occupation to occupy that country without aforesaid country's permission. i believe that this is a cause for war, because i learned this in school, about the revolutionary war in america, which is where i am. i do respect what he is saying, though, and anyone who approaches a war like this with hatred for both sides because they don't believe in killing on any side, has my ear. He also died a hero, might i add.
If you're implying that the United Kingdom (Britain) is occupying the 6 counties of Northern Ireland and that it's justification for war, I think you should learn a little bit of history.
The American Revolutionary War was a completely different scenario.
i don't agree with the message but i suppose everyone is entitled to their own opinion. plus his other songs were so good that it's easy to forgive this one
You are right! Honest people can disagree. I always felt it was about the fishing regulations put in to curtail the fishing industry, pollution and trade benefits, which is sort of political. It is a great song, no matter what, and Stan Rogers was one of a kind! Thanks for the comment. C.
@ceb2633 I don't mean to be picky, but I would certainly say that "The Idiot" is extremely political, and by Canadian standards rather right-wing (tame for the U.S.)
@ajferet: This is just me, but I never saw "The Idiot" as being all that right wing. If anything, it seems to support the 'leftist' point that the availability of a social safety net doesn't coerce people into being lazy. That the drive to contribute in an individual who takes any pride in his work is more than enough to keep them trying. And that that drive is not so fragile that it needs to be protected from whatever degradation some might see as resulting from a social safty net.
@BoojumFed Right wing by Canadian standards :). I.E. not very right-wing at all.
===
I think the song is very much against the Dole/welfare/etc, which are the hallmark of the left. Unfortunately, right-wing politicians soon become addicted to those same policies, especially the ones who might charitably be described as control freaks (Richard Nixon)
@BoojumFed I would hazard that the line, "but the government dole will rot your soul", does not support your analysis, BoojumFed. (Sorry, I originally named the wrong person in my first post so I removed it).
@Rikki0: I'm going to have to say I disagree there. My point is that the capacity for the singer to strive for a life built upon self-reliance despite the option of an 'easy way out' (unemployment compensation) is in itself proof that those programs do NOT coerce people into being lazy. I suspect that the line you pointed out describes how these programs may well provide an avenue for people who ARE lazy to express their laziness (and "rot [their] soul") but that's an entirely seperate claim.
@BoojumFed I thoroughly agree with your assertion that a system of welfare/dole, etc. does not coerce people into the acceptance of it. Sorry if I gave that impression. I do however believe that it fascilitates the idea of "why should I work when I can get [free] money"? I think your last statement is also correct. Mostly I think he was just trying to make the point to never give and keep trying as it will preserve your pride and dignity. Thanks for the courteous reply.
@Rikki0 It could be a mistake to assume that the "The Idiot" represents Stan's views rather than that of the refinery worker he was channelling in the song. Also, The Puddler's Tale is very strongly pro-worker and anti-boss - but again, does it represent Stan's own views rather than those of the puddler he is singing about?
@Razhumykin Truth to tell, I don't really see "The Idiot" as either pro-worker or pro-boss. I think it's more a statement about self-reliance in us all as opposed to depending on someone else to take care of us. Mr. Rogers always seemed (to me) to pretty much wear his feelings on his sleeve in much of his music and self-reliance, pride, and dignity were often major themes in his songs. I feel "The Idiot" was written to extol the virtues of those qualities. It is but my opinion, of course.
i think that this song in on my top 5 Stan Rogers songs. Thanks for the post, reminds me of back home....in ontario now but from saint john...and i left for work, like the idiot..lol
Looks a bit like a thinner Burl Ives (with a wonderful voice...Wow!). Love the arpeggio guitar...always one of my favorite styles of finger-picking. Thanks very much for a wondeful video, Claudia.
There are plenty of people born on this side of Atlantic who have never seen the strife in Northern Ireland. I grew up watching it. The British troops were not neutral peace keepers after the first 6 months of their deployment. They waged a war with PIRA and were beaten to stand still despite the help of NATO, Interpol, and even the KGB. After the worst beating a modern Western army has ever taken from a National Liberation movement the British agreed to same truce they could have had in 1974.
RedKatieAnne 1 month ago
The Irish have been oppressed by the English. Until the island is given back completely there won't be peace. God bless Stan for such a beautiful song.
BlameRepublicans 1 month ago
@BlameRepublicans But that's exactly the opposite point of Stan's song and God bless Stann
Sparlingo 1 week ago
Smeghead...Didn't Mary Chapin Carpenter get her start there too? I haven't thought of that place in YEARS!
marthafinney 4 months ago
Yeah, I don't think Stan was anti *that* war so much as anti war in general, using this as a backdrop. But it was also about how he didn't want his children to be raised in a world of hatred and war.
SithianHawk 6 months ago
To me he is saying that his ancestors may have come from elsewhere, but he is Canadian and that some of his ancestors helped build this country. Its drawing a line in the sand.
bradrmt 7 months ago
Great song; it rightly and equally blames the murdering criminals who make a living out of terrorism, and beautifully demonstrates that such behaviour is out of date, un-necessary, and hypocritical.
TheWesteros 7 months ago
A song that was outdated when written. It's true that PIRA & Ulster Volunteer Force still fought now and then. However what not mentioned is the civil rights abuses that were and still occurring to Irish catholic in the common wealth. Glazed over is the Genocide that took place during the Potato famines it killed more than 1 Million Irish people plus the countless people who fled Ireland to America. It easy to say everybody kiss and makeup when your not the one who is doing the Kissing
gullreefclub 8 months ago
@gullreefclub
I do not think he was saying kiss and make up. I think the last lines say what he means.
ceb2633 8 months ago 2
@ceb2633
Below are the last 3 lines to the song;
For I've given my heart to the place I was born
And forgiven the whole House of Orange
King Billy and the whole House of Orange."
To me Stan is saying that he Canadian and does not care about his ancestry and forgive and forget what has happened in the past. Some can it easier if your English or your have no family left in Ireland. It's a bit different if you do still have relatives living in Ireland
gullreefclub 8 months ago
@ceb2633 Absolutely right.
TheWesteros 7 months ago
@ceb2633
There was a time where you could be shot dead by the British for speaking your own language. It's about pride- it's about identity. If we're to kiss and make up, the Ulsters might as well win.
I'll smile at the Union Jack after I get my fuckin' country back.
RidingBesideMe 1 month ago
@gullreefclub Not :kiss and make up." More "a pox on both your houses."
ursusarctos0 5 months ago
@gullreefclub He was saying "A Plague on both your houses" A perfectly honourable stance.
Cliff3610 4 months ago
@gullreefclub It's easy to say 'keep fighting' when you're a plastic paddy know-nothing in the USA
thebresker 3 months ago 2
@thebresker Exactly the message of this song.
wandrew48 3 weeks ago
if only he were still here writing music.
o, what a loss
Sumer61 9 months ago
Who could argue with a line like "for causes are ashes where children lie slain" he was brilliant! I miss him so!
7808521113 1 year ago 9
@7808521113
I think all his lyrics make amazing sense. I miss him, too.
C.
ceb2633 1 year ago 2
@7808521113 Me too.
Cliff3610 4 months ago
And beautiful adversity has dealt a final blow,
To them smiling bastards lying to you everywhere you go
Turn to and put out all your strength of arm and heart and brain
And like the Mary Ellen Carter rise again!
Folks, the man was prophetic, creative, and a good many times political. I just wonder what he'd be coming up with for tunes if he were alive today!
mayfieldmac 1 year ago
I once performed this song acapella at a place in Washington DC called Food For Thought, vegetarian restaurant that catered to the more liberal minded residents of the Dupont Circle area. It got me banned. I guess they couldn't handle the truth.
smeghead1851 1 year ago 9
@smeghead1851
Oh, my word! Now that is interesting. Amazing the ignorance of so many. Keep singing.
C.
ceb2633 1 year ago 4
@smeghead1851 Stan did some very Rightwing songs. If they recognized the artist, that might be why.
vydak5000 1 year ago
@vydak5000 what's rightwing about him lol
Lleldorynix 9 months ago
@smeghead1851 Got you BANNED? WHY??
I love this song.
GarisMom 1 year ago
@GarisMom Not really sure why. The management of the restaurant were very militant and I guess they couldn't handle someone pointing out that both sides have more than enough blood on their hands and that autonomy for the Northern Irish cannot be achieved at the end of a gun or by the use of car/satchel bombs.
smeghead1851 1 year ago
@smeghead1851 well... maybe the vegetarians didn't want to have to picture kneecappings while they ate, twice...
nerdyharry 10 months ago
The song condemns both sides of the conflict. My Irish Catholic grandfather had no time for the IRA. He said religion was only being used as an excuse to commit violence. Irish anywhere should have told the IRA and UDL to f-off, its not our war your fighting.
Mac3622 1 year ago
@Mac3622
I agree. Both the UDI and the current incarnations of the IRA (no friend of the Church! ) are more akin to the Mafia than to a political movement. The Church as a faction in Ireland is more or less committed to the status quo...
ajferet 1 year ago
God Save The Queen
678caper 1 year ago
The last song he ever wrote, and his only political song, before the dreaded crash.
TheUnforgivingOne 1 year ago
Bless the Prince of Orange :) savior of all Christendom and those oppressed by Rome all over the world.
Repent of your sins!
Durendal33 1 year ago 2
people forget that in in canada religon cuased huge issues right up to thr 80s between catholics and protestants in canada,my parents were married in 1966 in saint john nb. Moms side of the family was scotch portestant, dads lebanese catholic (maronites), NOne of their families attended the wedding only their friends.Grampy on moms side was the president of the nd Orange Lodge Took years for the sides to learn to coexist,
steve6081212 1 year ago
The insane filthy far right wing in America ha salted the creative earth here so much it will take generations for your average American to understand the message of this song. One would think 9-11 would have served as a wake up call, but the filthy right wing just hit the snooze bar.
BlameRepublicans 1 year ago
p.s. Tiny Fish from Japan was more about American commercial fisherman risking their lives to catch fish....that they can't eat......to sell to other countries for pennies a pound .....while the foreign countries then resell for HUGE profit.....I know this because my husband was an American commercial fisherman...
Kamakoz1 2 years ago
Understand that the Battle of the Boyne was fought in 1690 and was a fight for the British throne between Protestant King "Billy" and the Catholic King James.
William of Orange was victorious ...maintaining the Protestant rule in Ireland. But, yes sadly, this battle is ongoing to this day.....
Kamakoz1 2 years ago
"King Billy (William) & the House of Orange"
houseoforange0 2 years ago
Stan really expresses himself perfectly in this song..the IRA has had no purpose but mudrer in the last fe decades
KrKilllla 2 years ago 5
@KrKilllla
How wrong you are.
RebelofIreland 2 years ago
@KrKilllla
I wish more Americans and Canadians understood that. The IRA was heavilly funded by donations from Irish-American and Irish-Canadian immigrants, spurred by talk of mangled ancient history used as propaganda. Never a mention of the carbombs ripping men, women and children to pieces as they went about their lives. Some knew very much what they were supporting, but most were just ignorant.
lordsummerisle87 1 year ago
The song is not about the IRA specifically. "Yet the damned U.D.L. and the cruel I.R.A. Will tomorrow go murdering again." - a slight mistake on Stan's part - U.D.A. - Ulster Defense Association. Loyalists who "fight" to remain British - as scummy as any IRA man and probably twice as bigoted but half as smart. They claimed to be taking the war to the I.R.A. but the I.R.A. in their eyes was any Catholic. The message of the song is "To hell with the lot of you." Nobody should forget that.
Number7smokesForEver 1 year ago
i don't agree that any country should allow another country or force of occupation to occupy that country without aforesaid country's permission. i believe that this is a cause for war, because i learned this in school, about the revolutionary war in america, which is where i am. i do respect what he is saying, though, and anyone who approaches a war like this with hatred for both sides because they don't believe in killing on any side, has my ear. He also died a hero, might i add.
noneyageorge85 2 years ago
@noneyageorge85
If you're implying that the United Kingdom (Britain) is occupying the 6 counties of Northern Ireland and that it's justification for war, I think you should learn a little bit of history.
The American Revolutionary War was a completely different scenario.
lordsummerisle87 1 year ago
i don't agree with the message but i suppose everyone is entitled to their own opinion. plus his other songs were so good that it's easy to forgive this one
noneyageorge85 2 years ago
Can you tell us exactly which of the variety of sentiments and ideas expressed in this song you disagree with? I would be interested to know.
HolyMotherofGrid 2 years ago
What is to forgive, noney? Allegiance to long generations ago? From another country? The song has an important message..
ceb2633 2 years ago 4
This was the only political song Stan wrote.
Ambidexter143 2 years ago
Tiny Fish for Japan is slightly political, but this one REALLY makes a point.
ceb2633 2 years ago
I never considered Tiny Fish for Japan as being political. It was about how the fishing industry was being ruined by pollution.
But this is a topic where honest people can easily disagree.
Ambidexter143 2 years ago
You are right! Honest people can disagree. I always felt it was about the fishing regulations put in to curtail the fishing industry, pollution and trade benefits, which is sort of political. It is a great song, no matter what, and Stan Rogers was one of a kind! Thanks for the comment. C.
ceb2633 2 years ago
@ceb2633 I don't mean to be picky, but I would certainly say that "The Idiot" is extremely political, and by Canadian standards rather right-wing (tame for the U.S.)
ajferet 1 year ago
@ajferet
Can't say I disagree with you on both counts. Very good point.
ceb2633 1 year ago
@ceb2633 See also "Tiny Fish for Japan"
ajferet 1 year ago
@ajferet: This is just me, but I never saw "The Idiot" as being all that right wing. If anything, it seems to support the 'leftist' point that the availability of a social safety net doesn't coerce people into being lazy. That the drive to contribute in an individual who takes any pride in his work is more than enough to keep them trying. And that that drive is not so fragile that it needs to be protected from whatever degradation some might see as resulting from a social safty net.
BoojumFed 1 year ago
@BoojumFed Right wing by Canadian standards :). I.E. not very right-wing at all.
===
I think the song is very much against the Dole/welfare/etc, which are the hallmark of the left. Unfortunately, right-wing politicians soon become addicted to those same policies, especially the ones who might charitably be described as control freaks (Richard Nixon)
ajferet 1 year ago
@BoojumFed great point. until degradation becomes synonymous with that safety net, and the alternative is lone survival in the wilderness...
nerdyharry 10 months ago
Comment removed
Rikki0 9 months ago
@BoojumFed I would hazard that the line, "but the government dole will rot your soul", does not support your analysis, BoojumFed. (Sorry, I originally named the wrong person in my first post so I removed it).
Rikki0 9 months ago
@Rikki0: I'm going to have to say I disagree there. My point is that the capacity for the singer to strive for a life built upon self-reliance despite the option of an 'easy way out' (unemployment compensation) is in itself proof that those programs do NOT coerce people into being lazy. I suspect that the line you pointed out describes how these programs may well provide an avenue for people who ARE lazy to express their laziness (and "rot [their] soul") but that's an entirely seperate claim.
BoojumFed 9 months ago
@BoojumFed I thoroughly agree with your assertion that a system of welfare/dole, etc. does not coerce people into the acceptance of it. Sorry if I gave that impression. I do however believe that it fascilitates the idea of "why should I work when I can get [free] money"? I think your last statement is also correct. Mostly I think he was just trying to make the point to never give and keep trying as it will preserve your pride and dignity. Thanks for the courteous reply.
Rikki0 9 months ago
@Rikki0 It could be a mistake to assume that the "The Idiot" represents Stan's views rather than that of the refinery worker he was channelling in the song. Also, The Puddler's Tale is very strongly pro-worker and anti-boss - but again, does it represent Stan's own views rather than those of the puddler he is singing about?
Razhumykin 9 months ago
@Razhumykin Truth to tell, I don't really see "The Idiot" as either pro-worker or pro-boss. I think it's more a statement about self-reliance in us all as opposed to depending on someone else to take care of us. Mr. Rogers always seemed (to me) to pretty much wear his feelings on his sleeve in much of his music and self-reliance, pride, and dignity were often major themes in his songs. I feel "The Idiot" was written to extol the virtues of those qualities. It is but my opinion, of course.
Rikki0 9 months ago
Have loved Stan for years. Of all his material, this is the very most meaningful. Got rest him.
kganymede 2 years ago
Amen, kganymede. For some reason, this was the first song of his I ever heard. It knocked my socks off. He was the whole package. I miss him. C.
ceb2633 2 years ago
i think that this song in on my top 5 Stan Rogers songs. Thanks for the post, reminds me of back home....in ontario now but from saint john...and i left for work, like the idiot..lol
thanks again
Daren
darenberry 2 years ago
Thanks, and I think "The Idiot" is among my top ten Stan Rogers. He was one of a kind, the best kind.
ceb2633 2 years ago
to ceb2633 keep up the good work Stan Rogers was a great loss..good to hear you have more to post looking forward to it cheers george mac.
georgekallin 3 years ago
Looks a bit like a thinner Burl Ives (with a wonderful voice...Wow!). Love the arpeggio guitar...always one of my favorite styles of finger-picking. Thanks very much for a wondeful video, Claudia.
Warm feelings, John
Blinkymyt 3 years ago
I love Stan Rogers, have more to put up. He passed on way too early but left quite a legacy. Thanks so much for the comment, John, best to you.
ceb2633 3 years ago