Blender terrain pt1

[PERSONTHATISCLEVER]

Will this program work for Team fortress 2? cause i have no experience with this stuff

[Quake3Bits]

@PERSONTHATISCLEVER The short answer is "yes" but it's a bit more complicated than that because terrain tends to be made in the TF2 level editor as a series of brush volumes (iirc). Although you can use models I don't recall ever seeing a terrain being made as one. Best bet is to check out any TF2 editing forums or websites.

[PERSONTHATISCLEVER]

@Quake3Bits Alright, Thank you for the information, and have a good day

[RunningLemonStudios]

Just so you know, I (and I assume others as well) am not going to sit through 17 minutes of silence while trying to watch what you're doing.

[Quake3Bits]

@RunningLemonStudios Thanks for the comment. You'll be able to *buy* all-singing/dancing HD quality videos soon.

[RunningLemonStudios]

@Quake3Bits Haha rereading that, I'll also add that the above comment was the result of sleep deprivation and frustration :D

[Quake3Bits]

@RunningLemonStudios no worries, that's why I posted the comment I did... my Betazoid powers sensed the trouble in you ;o)

I am working on some updated terrain tutorials along with others on the "to do" list. Don't know when they'll be released though :o(

[revjection]

Is it best to make one large terrain or seperate smaller ones for a large game?

[Quake3Bits]

@revjection it depends on the game engine, most can handle big terrain, usually using some for of height based (grayscale) image input. If you're modeling it, you might need to section it for better management as you build (big terrain has a lot of polygons). Either way check the engine tech and see what it's expecting.

[DanFrederiksen]

probably time lapse this kind of video. and don't use the green dot if possible

[Quake3Bits]

Right, then have people complain it goes to fast and they can't see the mouse.

[tiomoti123]

What keys to press at the minute 1:30?

[kemikalx61]

That looks like the "S" key..to scale down the size.the G key grabs and the R rotates

[ronin437]

what did you do at 2:54

[AlexW573]

I looked it up in some keyboard shortcuts, I think it was M.

[Quake3Bits]

You mean when the object disappears? Press "M" to bring up the little layer pop-up and click one of the buttons to move objects to that layer.

[Quake3Bits]

Yep, "S". Also may have used "X", "Y" or "Z" after pressing "S" to constrain the scaling to one of the axis directions

[xninjasFTWx]

what did you do at 2:49

[Quake3Bits]

Ah "Separate". Press "P" in edit mode to detach selected faces

[blendiefan]

woludnt be easier with fractal tool and then just edit the mesh ?

[Quake3Bits]

You could do but you would create more work for yourself by starting with what's called an "untidy" mesh; you've always got to be in control of what you're doing so you can properly optimise content when its ready to put into game.

[caspian200]

So from :00 to :50 you just did a complicated creation of a plane?

[Quake3Bits]

Nope, basic editing. You're not always going to be in a position to start from a primitive so you may need to 'clean' something up first.

You *can* start from a plain if you want though ;o)

[takamaru1123]

thx for putting the camera in perspective mode!)

[nard3456]

what did you do at 58

[Quake3Bits]

Ah, 'loopcut'.

EDIT mode, then press Ctrl+R, click to set cut. Ctrl to snap to grid as the highlight line moves before cutting.

[nard3456]

thank you kindly

[sakamimoonwater]

what did u do to get to the action done on 1:45?

i mean the "select all vertices" things

[Quake3Bits]

"A". You may need to press it twice, once to clear selected, then again to reselect all.

[hale992]

u should have started with a plane so you dont have to waste time deleting excess verts

[Quake3Bits]

The purpose of using a box is to illustrate some simple face removal before doing anything complex.

[conmak7]

you can use nurbs in doom 3 ed and do the same thiing.

but i need someone to explane to me how your computor renders nurbs.

are they renderd in polygons, or some other way?

[Quake3Bits]

They're supposed to be used for pathing and *not* modelling. Nurbs work in a different way to polygon modelling and result in meshes that are far too dense for what they are within a game environment. You can use them if you want but don't expect great performance from the game.

[conmak7]

"Non-uniform rational B-spline (NURBS) is a mathematical model commonly used in computer graphics for generating and representing curves and surfaces."

Non Uniform Rational Basis Spline

so the s on the end dosnt mean its plural.

i always hear ppl call a single nurbs a nurb.

i even did it myself.

this is random of me, even though it dosnt really have alot to do with this vid lol.

sorry

[conmak7]

well for somethings they do work really well.

so then i guess it would be best to only use them a little bit in my levels. like pipes and stuff.

so the defanition of nurb is it like how it has to vectors and in the middle it has one that bends it? cuz it has stuff like that in photo shop and fireworks they work the same way.

im gonna wiki this.

[Quake3Bits]

In the *context of level editing* NURBS were introduced to allow smooth transition of scripted objects along a path; before that it was straight lines, which looked ugly at transition points; using 'vectors' means even curves.

I'd recommend using patches and/or simple brush shapes for those types of objects as you're wasting too many polygons on things that don't matter.

The primary RULE is this;

"LESS IS MORE"

Use as little as possible to describe as much as possible.

[conmak7]

wait wait wait.... patch meshes... arent those nurbs?

[Quake3Bits]

Technically no (don't quote me on that as they may have changed Radiants code). They work in a similar way in that they let you make curved surfaces that are controlable in terms of their polygon density/how smooth they are.

You should be making as much as possible from brushes, then patches and then models (obviously using models for more complex objects that you can make with the other two).

[Quake3Bits]

Ooops, I mean't "*can't make" from the other two.

[conmak7]

alrighty. thanks man.

yeah, im more of an unreal engine guy.

but i want to learn at least two engines before i graduate from high school, cuz that will really help if i know both really well.

so you know, im just trying to learn as much as posible so it is easier later.

cuz you learn better when your younger.

but yeah i like to use patche meshes for terrain, it works quite well.

but how do they do terrain in quake wars?

is it a model? or a patch or a specal terrain tool or something?

[Quake3Bits]

Oh you should have said UT, they use patches just for terrain iirc, QW (idtech) use models for terrain; you can use patches but it won't be MegaTextured. See katsbits for a tute on using patches like that.

[conmak7]

what do you mean i should have said ut?

but if they use models in terrain, what if you wanna do little tweaks and adjustments on your terrain?

[Quake3Bits]

The proper way to build anything for a game is to *PRE-PLAN*, that's very important. You rough out what you want, block out buildings and structures, test game-play, tweak and modify layout accordingly. Once all that's locked down you *then* you start to detail up and add form to structures.

Re: UT, you should have mentioned that's where you were coming from because, as I said above, 'patchs' are used ostensibly in a different way in that game when compared to idtech.

[conmak7]

yeah i do that, but i always get stuck on detail.

so yeah, thats a good idea, im gonna have to do that.

but i personaly start with terrain then work from there, adding buildings and trees and stuff later.

i actualy dont think ut uses nurbs cuz i had never even herd of them until i started messing around with maya 8.5 and 3ds max 9.

so it is still pretty new to me.

and i dont beleve ut uses patches at all.

its all brush work and static meshes which are basicly models. and terrain.

[conmak7]

you should actualy look up static meshes yourself and read about how they use them, its pretty cool.

it aparently dosnt make a difference how many times you use the same model. it only renders it once.

so it dosnt matter if you have the model once, or 100 times, it shouldnt make a difference.

oh and by they way, we should moce this convo over to messages cuz our convo dosnt have very much to do with the vid at all.

[Quake3Bits]

Yes, it's called "instancing", most games use some form of it.

[conmak7]

really? oh probebly crysis so they can show so many trees at once.

yeah dude its so sweet. i can put so many trees in my maps with it haha.

[TylerTroute]

how did u do the subdivide thing at 1min

[Quake3Bits]

EDIT mode (TAB) then Ctrl+R to activate the edgeloop cutter. Click to fiddle then click to set and cut.

[sakamimoonwater]

k thanks! ^_^ now i have one more question. but im not even for sure if it has anything to do with this tutorial but you definitley seem to know your stuff in blender,so ill just ask! :)

well i know how to rotate,for example a plane, and all of that jess, but HOW do you LIFT IT up?

is there a way? and i mean likes say there is a piece of paper lying on a table. you grab the top edge and pull that up so its "standing up". how do you do that in blender?

[Quake3Bits]

A couple of ways dependsing on what you're trying to do. Easiest is to select object in 'Object' mode and press "R" followed by "X", "Y" or "Z" to 'lock' the rotation to one of those axis (you can do the same in edit mode).

BTW what you were describing was to "rotate the plain 'upright'" as opposed to "lifting it up", which would just 'raise' its level relative to the table.

[BadManneredCat]

You need to rotate around a specific point, right? So, if there was a piece of paper on a table (i.e. a plane, it should only have four vertices), go to Edit mode, select only the vertices that are going to stay on the table (i.e. around which you want to rotate). Press [Shift]+[S] and select "Cursor->Selection". Now you need to enable transform around cursor (pres the dot [.] key) and now you can exit edit mode and rotate. Hope I helped.

[Andr3w007]

can some one give me some help with blender? I'm kind of new to it, but I want to be good with this program.

[freemind89]

search for tutorials in the web

i prefer the wiki "blender tutorial noob to pro"

[Zyklowa]

helps me alot thank you

can you make a tutorial with a high poly body or something ? my main problem :/

[testuser564]

i may be a total dumbass for askin this, but can you make RTS's with blender?

[Quake3Bits]

Kind of. The Blender game engine is pretty decent (relatively speaking) but to make a fully fledged RTS you'll likely need to do a lot of background programming that Blender itself can't do. Or use a game and mod it to your needs.

[Bobthemedic06]

What key to you press to open the select tab?

[Quake3Bits]

Ctrl+TAB

[Bobthemedic06]

Thanks so much, have any clue what the redo button is?

[Quake3Bits]

I've not noticed that one, sounds like it's associated with undo/redo? That's it's *usual* context.

[gaararocks223]

you know you could select "A" to select all vertices's or to do the oppisite

[Quake3Bits]

I do yes.. written too many tutorials that make mention of it ;o)

It's easier to show menu options rathen than shortcuts, although using those is unaviodable sometimes.

[PureT3x4n]

2 hard for me

[5251796123456789]

hey i wanna know something i dont know how did you do this lines in the first i can't do it man any by the way your video are awesome ;)

[Quake3Bits]

The lines I think you're referring to are called 'loop cuts' you get that tool up in editmode using "Ctrl+R"

[kick52]

Ah, that's a really handy tool.

[DaniDarko44]

this was very helpful, thanks

[masterchief3k]

well, as long as there was a reason, that's good!

[masterchief3k]

why not delete the cube and add a plane at first? takes less time...

[Quake3Bits]

Aye, I can see 30 seconds being a huge waste of time..! heh ;o)

I left it in to show some of the basics of edit mode before going full throttle into editing and creating the terrain section; it's often easier to 'prep' and show some of those functions on a primative than it is on a relatively complex object like the terrain section.

[pcgeekman]

Add your voice to your videos next time please, because you can't see some things very clearly.

[artofmajic]

thanks i didnt know that

[artofmajic]

how do you move the camera around. for some reason i try to click on a empty space and click and drag the mouse around to change the angle or postion of the camera and all it looks like is im just drawing some squigly lines

[Quake3Bits]

Camera movements are Middle Mouse button (MMB) click hold and drag which rotates the camera roughly around your initial point of contact.

Shift +MMB and Ctrl+MMB will 'strafe' the camera (up/down, left/right) and zoom camera.

You can also use NumPad '.' to home in on a selected object and basically have that act as a camera rotation point. HTH.

[kurdistanikemm]

its comfuzing

how do move the commera around

[Quake3Bits]

You need to search for "Blender basics". MMB+clickhold and drag using Ctrl or SHIFT

[hhansF]

what is that green spot on the arrow?? what mode?

[Quake3Bits]

Oh that's actually the video capture software doing that, it's a visual aid so that you can see the mouse more easily when watching the video. As far as I know, Blender doesn't have anything like that.

[lioxait]

Need to try blender !

[landwhale007]

i got 2 questions:how do u select faces, and how do u cut those lines in the cube like at 1:00? srry, im a noob :p

[DanielSDZ]

I got the exact same question like at 1:00

[Quake3Bits]

Damn YouTube!

I did comment previously but it hadn't added it. grrr! Basically go into edit mode and press Ctrl+R to activate the LOOPCUT tool, that's what that line thing is.

[Glueffel]

that video is great

i tried blender but i didn't really get to cope with it

this vid kind of explaned things to me

youre little landscape lokks great but what about textures?

if there is time you could make a kind of turtorial for blender!?=)

[Quake3Bits]

I'm guessing you mean using Blenders materials to make 'textures'? The texture used in these tutorials is an external image and as this object is mainly low poly for use in a game using Blenders materials like that isn't covered as it's not something that can be used externally (outside of Blender).

[davydavo]

im confused

[Quake3Bits]

About life in general, or about always having one sock missing? If it's about the vids you'll need to be a little bit more forthcoming with info about what's causing your confusion so you can be shown the light

;o)

[justtrytostopus90]

i never knew making something so amazing is so easy.

[Quake3Bits]

Oh yes, it's often a case of just letting your mind go and allowing the object to take form as you work. Everytime you move a face or vertex a new 'shape' is possible and it's just a question of following that (or not as the case may be) and getting caught up in the natural flow of the lines.

In other words, think 'zen' and go with the flow! heh

[pytoche]

hey i see in your video that you use smooth and it seems like Subsurf... i try it on blender 3.43 and it dont works.

how did you made it?

[Quake3Bits]

That'll most likely be 'Set Smooth' in the edit buttons window, look for the "Link and Materials" panel, select the mesh and then hit the "Set Smooth" button. The model dosen't use any SubSurf divisions as it basically for a low poly game model environment.

[pytoche]

i cant see your reply

[pytoche]

there are an script that made the same thing.

but i give you a 10 of 10 because you made manualli

AWESOME!:

[Quake3Bits]

Thanks for the comment.

The trouble with the scripts is that they only do one thing, create terrain based on *height*. In other words they only use one axis - up/down - manual construction avoids this and plays to the strengths of what you can do to make an *interesting* terrain by allowing modellers to use all the axis's available to them in Blender.

[lupine73]

Just sayin' howdy :)

[Ayelis]

Found it! Ctrl+R(RKEY) engages the loop subdivision routine across any face. LeftClick(LMB) closest to the edge to which you want to loop-subdivide perpendicularly. Move the subdivision to the desired location and click(LMB) again! Voila!

[Quake3Bits]

Sorry for not replying sooner, was having problems for a while posting comments.

You can also try to using Shift+K to activate the 'Knife' tool which will cut faces/edges where ever the cut line crosses; it's a good way to break a mesh down without messing up the UVWmapping that may already be applied to a mesh (using subdivide and then shifting the gizmo for placement will find the texture warping and distorting based on the position of final sub-d cut).

[Quake3Bits]

Also, don't get too carried away with using Loops as they travel all the way around a mesh and will create extra polygons where they may not be needed.

[Ayelis]

You're fast with your blender, but you don't use hotkeys at the start (to delete the unneeded faces on the cube) or Ctrl for grid-snapping. Later on, you DO use hotkeys, but I'm not sure which ones! Loopcuts? And where are all these context menus coming from? I'm going to have to do more experimentation.

[lupine73]

Oh.. and another question. I'm curious why you don't eliminate the backfaces?

[Quake3Bits]

I do but not till much later in the series - I think I do it after I've got the UVWmapping done - it sometimes helps later on when you edit and tweak the mesh and you need to do loopcuts around the model, a 'complete' mesh will loop all the way around, whereas a 'culled' mesh won't always do that.

[lupine73]

Ahh okay. Yeah, preserving the mesh for looping makes sense, especially with how much of your technique lies in dividing the mesh.

[Quake3Bits]

Yes, that's the one thing I wanted to try and show in the series, not everything is done 1st time, i.e. the mesh isn't modelled and then left, then UVWmapped and left and so on, obviously you want to try and give you self as many 'options' further down the line.

Essentially the mesh isn't made 'game ready' and 'optimised' until just before exporting to a game format (ASE in this case).

[lupine73]

Very cool. Hmmm.. I might have to give that approach a shot, then. I've got a map drawn for the area, but how to go about creating it has been a dilemma for me; considering the different options. I was going to go with the approach like in Unreal Tournament, mixing height-mapped terrain with so-called "static meshes", but I really like the "hand-crafted" approach much better. Do you have samples of any other landscapes you've created this way?

[Quake3Bits]

Not that I can physically show, no, at least not yet. I've only done some *modelling* tests becasue I'm waiting on QuakeWars to see how the whole MegaTexture thing works 'in real life' (so to speak) before jumping headlong into producing big terrains.

Hand crafted is good but it's better to mix and match all the techniques you can to get the results you want.

[lupine73]

I can see where having a heightmap might be better in some cases, like a large area with rolling hills, etc. But, to me, there's something more solid about an environment that's hand-crafted rather than a height map terrain with "props" on top of it. For example, in a game like Final Fantasy XI or Everquest II, those environments are hand-crafted. Things like arches, overhangs, etc are formed right into the terrain, not dropped on top of them. It makes it seem much more "believable" to me.

[lupine73]

Very cool stuff! I've been trying to find a video tutorial on just this exact thing. I'm wanting to create a landscape for a game, one that's more "hand-crafted" than "height-mapped" and I think the technique you use here is just what I'd use. Question about this. Let's say you were to model out an entire environment, including flat open areas, etc.. .would you continue with this same technique? Or, are there other approaches you would apply?

Thanks for sharing this :-)

[Quake3Bits]

I'd basically use this technique. You'd certainly want to 'plan' the environment before hand so you know where things are supposed to go; if necessary that plan can be imported into your 3D app and used as a guide.

What you could then do is 'loft up' the main feature of the terrain, big cliff faces or crevices, rivers and shorelines, those kind of things, detailing them up to a suitable level. That forms the overall contours and feature set of the terrain.

[Quake3Bits]

cont from above...

Once you've done that you can then go back at it using smaller 'prefabs' which can be used to further 'micro detail' the terrain, things like large boulders and rocks.

Essentially what you're trying to do is break the terrain down into a render friendly shape at the same time as preserving some decent level of visual detailing, even perhaps breaking the terrain down into smaller sections and hiding the joins at the bottom of rivers where they won't normally be seen.