I think this is really neat. Is it really that much more efficient than the polyethylene pipes? How much more does a system like this cost in comparison to a geothermal with polyethylene pipes?
@cnannej - google material heat conductivity chart. Cooper is by far more conductive, thus so much more efficient. cost of both system is quite close as the drilling cost is the most expensive part and that needs to be done for both system.
This is a great educational video. I'm an HVAC instructor for the DOD (Air Force) and we discuss geothermal heat pumps in our advanced course. Would you mind if I showed this video as part of my lesson? We also discuss water loops. I find it interesting that you say this method is more efficient that a water loop. Can you tell me where I can find that in print? I get asked all the time which type of system is "better" and I can't give an educated answwer to that.
1. Cooper has higher thermal conductivity than poly pipes used for water loops so there is better transfer of thermal energy and less loss. 2. Also, if the system is to connect to a refrigerant based system, with water loops energy is lost during the transfer of the thermal energy from the water loops onto the refrigerant pipes, while in DX it’s the same lines all the way from the ground to the air-handler with no such loss.
yes copper is a great conductor of heat transfer. But it is prone to to rust. And, leak. I have removed multiple systems that had damaged loops. aluminum is not affected by moisture and is still a conducter of heat, if you ran a aluminum coated copper tube you could prevent any oxidation or rust, or damage caused by the moisture in the ground. Just fyi... other than that these systems are a great idea... Anything super efficient is worth the investmen. GeoComfort...
Copper doesn’t rust. It may corrode if the ph in the ground is low. We test the ground and we install in every system we put in an active cathodic protection with alerts. None never went off so far and we never had to remove or repair the geo field. So its not really an issue with the system, its an issue with whom installs it and how its being installed. The efficiency of this system is superb compared to other systems.
We do also, by the way, install water loops that runs in PVC pipes. Its not as efficient but its also a good system. My recommendations is that if there is no prevention, install DX in copper pipes. If there are limitations, typically imposed by uneducated local authorities, geo based on water is still better than conventional system…
why dont you at dx just offer a copernickle Coax piping or a aluminum coax piping that can be offered as a solution to high ph levels in the ground. I designed a piping that you could bury and increase your absorbtion rate...
@mot123jo hi. we are not designers - just installers. but FYI: copper has double the thermal conductivity of any other element. doing anything less than copper reduced the system efficiency by much.
Copper is a natural occurrence and does not get destroyed when in the ground. Corrosion in copper may happen when the ground ph level between the copper and the ground. This is also referred to as acid ground. Most areas are not acid. We test for acidity and as a matter of caution, even when not needed, add an anode that will neutralize the effect. In case of high acidity a system different than DX may be recommended or we may also install a small low voltage power supply for countereffect.
Thanks for your questions. A direct exchange (DX) geothermal system is a system in which the refrigerant circulates through copper tubing placed in the ground. The refrigerant exchanges heat directly (thus DX) with the soil through the walls of the copper tubing. This eliminates the plastic water pipe and water pump to circulate water found in a water-source geothermal heat pump. This simplicity allows the system to reach high efficiencies while using a relatively (continued)
My 1st post didn't make it. How much more efficient is this copper tubing than the black polytubing I've seen before? For the system to be called DX (Direct Exchange), does the system need to use copper?
Also, how wide of a space is needed for that drilling machine?
I think this is really neat. Is it really that much more efficient than the polyethylene pipes? How much more does a system like this cost in comparison to a geothermal with polyethylene pipes?
cnannej 9 months ago
@cnannej - google material heat conductivity chart. Cooper is by far more conductive, thus so much more efficient. cost of both system is quite close as the drilling cost is the most expensive part and that needs to be done for both system.
greenenergyact 9 months ago
This is a great educational video. I'm an HVAC instructor for the DOD (Air Force) and we discuss geothermal heat pumps in our advanced course. Would you mind if I showed this video as part of my lesson? We also discuss water loops. I find it interesting that you say this method is more efficient that a water loop. Can you tell me where I can find that in print? I get asked all the time which type of system is "better" and I can't give an educated answwer to that.
Harleydude2 1 year ago
1. Cooper has higher thermal conductivity than poly pipes used for water loops so there is better transfer of thermal energy and less loss. 2. Also, if the system is to connect to a refrigerant based system, with water loops energy is lost during the transfer of the thermal energy from the water loops onto the refrigerant pipes, while in DX it’s the same lines all the way from the ground to the air-handler with no such loss.
greenenergyact 1 year ago
yes copper is a great conductor of heat transfer. But it is prone to to rust. And, leak. I have removed multiple systems that had damaged loops. aluminum is not affected by moisture and is still a conducter of heat, if you ran a aluminum coated copper tube you could prevent any oxidation or rust, or damage caused by the moisture in the ground. Just fyi... other than that these systems are a great idea... Anything super efficient is worth the investmen. GeoComfort...
mot123jo 1 year ago
Copper doesn’t rust. It may corrode if the ph in the ground is low. We test the ground and we install in every system we put in an active cathodic protection with alerts. None never went off so far and we never had to remove or repair the geo field. So its not really an issue with the system, its an issue with whom installs it and how its being installed. The efficiency of this system is superb compared to other systems.
greenenergyact 1 year ago
We do also, by the way, install water loops that runs in PVC pipes. Its not as efficient but its also a good system. My recommendations is that if there is no prevention, install DX in copper pipes. If there are limitations, typically imposed by uneducated local authorities, geo based on water is still better than conventional system…
greenenergyact 1 year ago
why dont you at dx just offer a copernickle Coax piping or a aluminum coax piping that can be offered as a solution to high ph levels in the ground. I designed a piping that you could bury and increase your absorbtion rate...
mot123jo 1 year ago
@mot123jo hi. we are not designers - just installers. but FYI: copper has double the thermal conductivity of any other element. doing anything less than copper reduced the system efficiency by much.
greenenergyact 1 year ago
Copper is a natural occurrence and does not get destroyed when in the ground. Corrosion in copper may happen when the ground ph level between the copper and the ground. This is also referred to as acid ground. Most areas are not acid. We test for acidity and as a matter of caution, even when not needed, add an anode that will neutralize the effect. In case of high acidity a system different than DX may be recommended or we may also install a small low voltage power supply for countereffect.
greenenergyact 2 years ago
Thanks for your questions. A direct exchange (DX) geothermal system is a system in which the refrigerant circulates through copper tubing placed in the ground. The refrigerant exchanges heat directly (thus DX) with the soil through the walls of the copper tubing. This eliminates the plastic water pipe and water pump to circulate water found in a water-source geothermal heat pump. This simplicity allows the system to reach high efficiencies while using a relatively (continued)
greenenergyact 2 years ago
My 1st post didn't make it. How much more efficient is this copper tubing than the black polytubing I've seen before? For the system to be called DX (Direct Exchange), does the system need to use copper?
Also, how wide of a space is needed for that drilling machine?
RODikUlus 2 years ago
Thanks for this information. Does "DX" ( Direct Exchange) refer to the copper tubing approach, as opposed to the polytube (black flexible tubes)?
I'm strongly considering doing this job this year. I live in Queens, near J.F.K. Airport. With a 646 area code, are you located in New York?
Also, I have a driveway leading to my backyard. How much space is needed for that type of drilling machine to fit?
RODikUlus 2 years ago