My favorite bible chapter is Leviticus 14 (15 too if you wish). In this chapter, god lays out his cure for leprosy. A must read, bring your popcorn. I laughed so hard when I read this yesterday. It seems antibiotics may have been a better choice, you make the call.
@r0l0kcs actually, as an arab who has read and heard the quran, i can tell you that its only good as the first book ever put together in Arabic.
the quran is a cocktail of arabic-syriac texts ranging from poetry of different tribes, and stories of the prophets taken from the old testament. 60% of the quran is boring repetition and threats made by allah to his enemies.
@leptismagna10 Thank you for the information about the origins of poetry in the quran! This is interesting. I'm curious; What kind of Arabic literature would you recommend? Maybe there exist good translations of these literature.
@r0l0kcs There are plenty of great modern and pre-modern Arabic writers from several countries. You'll find most of these writers come from Egypt, Syria and Iraq, rarely from Saudi Arabia.
Naguib Mahfouz and Youssef al Sebaa'y are two of my favorite authors. There is also great poetry from the 16th century, Hafiz of Shiraz, although its in Persian not arabic.
@r0l0kcs these authors and poets wrote things that were much more meaningful and creative than anything in the quran.
The quran was written by Arabs. The poetry and prose and science of the middle ages were not done by arabs, but by Arabized people of North Africa and the levant, where there was already an established Hellenistic (but also christian unfortunately) civilization.
The arabs themselves, and the religion they created, has done nothing for humanity.
@leptismagna10 Thank you for all the information, you gave me, about these authors! I'm an atheist myself and therefore feel kind of honored to talk to an Arabic atheist, because it's so much easier to be an atheist in western countries (except for certain "bible belt"-regions in the US; look for "bible belt" in wikipedia).
You're the first Arab I'm talking to over youtube, whose mind is not clouded by religion. I'm glad that people like you exist. :)
The only reason Egypt was considered secular and liberal was because Mubarak kept the Islamist majority at bay. That's going to change now. Poll the average Egyptians about their views on religion and they are actually just as insane as Saudis.
@MinecraftKSA People can move to other countrys an move back,he could even be american that went to live there an became a citizen, when he speaks fast it sounds like hes used to speaking arabic which is a very quick language compared to english and say spanish.Ramadan you only fast during daylight and you can eat and drink at night.Its not 2 weeks no water or food, other wise islam wouldnt exist cos theyd all be dead lmao
prayer police...PRAYER POLICE! that sounds like something from a dystopian novel or movie or something... reminds me of the handmaid's tale by margaret atwood... the christian equivalent... i think!
That's an excellent point made by the caller. 'Why didn't God reveal himself to all people on the planet in all the languages and not just ancient Arabic? Why only reveal himself to a 7th century Arabic warlord in a cave where there were, conveniently, no witnesses to this 'miraculous' event? Anyone else smell a rat here? You would have to be an idiot to believe in any of this shit.
@TheFestivelights or why did he wait until 2000 years ago to come to earth to "save us"? Why did he bother with the 4000 years (according to the bible) of failed experiments?
I worked in several Muslim countries...It was recommended in many to pretend to be a Christian rather than atheist, so they'd think of me as deluded rather than evil.....I've seen first hand the social damage Islam does, and the skewed world view it gives it's followers.
@rogan71 islam is a religion that does not deal with the intellect, so i always understood, even as a child, that this religion can make people violent and aggressive. Of course cultural factors (psychosocial) are crucial but all in all it makes me wonder how people even from a western culture engage in jihad etc, i mean you dont see that in otehr religions, you just dont see that.
Is it really surprising that cat "peacetrain" stevens supports the death penalty on salman rushdie? no surprise
@Serpico261 look back in history, the dark ages. Christianity was exactly the same. Other religions do those things but now they are losing the battle for control over the masses (slowly but surely). the first step to breaking the islamics out of the control of the church is to free them from the islamic dark ages
It's strange everything they say seems to only apply to the indoctrinated, I came to being a believer in a creator much later in life than most people, I went through my entire Childhood being a non believer, I am the reverse of the host of this show and it just seems like he is self projecting alot because nothing they say describes my experience, I come from a mainly agnostic family of Hebrew origin and i came to believe in God strictly through studying the universe, science and philosophy.
@HebrewTiger the caller was talking about the belief in the holiness of the quran, and scripture. If you believe in a god through observing the universe, that is your own deistic non-tribal opinion.
But if you pray to this god and expect and expect to go to paradise for it, that is not rational.
It is totally absurd and brainwashed to be convinced that a god wrote a book with instructions for you on how to think and live your life while completely ignoring the natural world.
@leptismagna10 I semi agree with you on some of that, It just sounded like the hosts were implying "All belief in God is indoctrination and illogical" basically came off as if people cannot come to belief in God through evidence based faith like I did, with the book thing, I don't think it is out of the question that people have been inspired to give good advice to their cultures, I'm not saying God wrote actual books but he may of inspired some of the content in say, Vedas,Gospel,Quran,Dharmas
@HebrewTiger first i find it open minded of you to consider all the claimed holy books (from arab to indian) to be equally enlightening without being biased or supremacist to one religion.
But you must consider what the word "God" in the context of atheists reaction to religion. For the shows hosts, the word God means someone you believe is existing behind the curtain of reality puppeteering the universe who will reward and/or punish you based on how much you spend your life flattering him.
@HebrewTiger you also must understand that the show is less targeted towards people like you who hold a deistic belief (unless you believe in prayer) and those who believe they should force other people to adopt views and lifestyles befitting what they think god wants of everyone.
such people are those who are homophobic, religious supremacists, against premarital sex, abortion, and interfaith marriage, and they believe that all other faiths other than theirs is heresy and hell-worthy.
@HebrewTiger but most of all its about truth. What can you prove to be true and what is untrue? This stance of this show is such that the kind of god or gods believed in since the beginning of culture are simply inventions of those cultures.
And whatever is up there, if there is something supernatural, it hasn't said anything to anyone, anytime, anywhere and never will, ever. Religion has been used to take advantage of people's fears and to silence philosophical inquisitiveness about nature.
@leptismagna10 No this is not correct philosophy, I made no absolute claims, you made an absolute claim just then saying "Whatever is up there (Ie God) Has NEVER said anything to anyone and NEVER will" Now you have to give supporting evidence to back up your absolute claim because burden of proof is on you. I say "God might have inspired those people" or "God may speak to people" none of my claims are of the absolute nature they are philosophical speculations and ponderings. this is a fallacy.
@HebrewTiger umm, no, the burden of proof is not upon me, it is upon the claim maker, because there is no proof that god has ever spoken to anyone.
All the books and religious doctrines are just completely man made, and all prophets where liars, because they were bad people and why the hell would god just speak to one person...why not speak to all humanity at the same time to avoid religious conflict?
@leptismagna10 You did just make a claim though, your claim was "God does not and never will speak or inspire anybody" that is a claim an absolute claim no less. So yes the burden of proof is on you for that particular claim.
@HebrewTiger because in all of history there has never been a single time where a god ever did speak to someone. There have been plenty of claims, and they all failed to supply proof, there fore ALL claims in the past are wrong.
@leptismagna10 You just made another absolute claim what is wrong with your philosophical reasoning ability, you stepped in another fallaxy right there again just re-worded. There is no absolute proof that God has never spoken to anybody in the past. you just asserted that God hasn't. I am not saying "God Has definately spoken to people in the past" im saying "God might have I do not know"
@HebrewTiger you know, i think that if god spoke to someone, we would know. it would not be a "mmmmmmaybe", it would be a fucking mind blow to the entire universe.
@leptismagna10 You made another assertion, you can't keep doing this my friend please stop asserting randomly. You don't know if God has an agenda or a motive for things God does. The counterfactuals of free will explain this perfectly. We cannot just assert "God would do this, God would do that" We have no evidence to suggest we know what god would or would not do. I can refute that by simply saying "What if God dosn't want to prove to everyone he exists directly". its just circular speculation
@leptismagna10 That's just like asking "Why do you want to do anything" Why woouldn't he want to do something?, The second is the same as asking "Why does the universe exist atall" either you have circular arguments based on the Eternal, or you have something comming from nothing, and the second is a logical fallacy Which is why I choose the Eternal existence position becauseit has no fallacy. I say God might have inspired/Guided people because it is simply a possibility without a fallacy.
@HebrewTiger so just forget about everything and tell me why you think god may have talked to people. give an example, and explain the mechanism behind you reaching this conclusion.
@leptismagna10 They wouldn't want me to be on this show because it wouldn't be a debate it would just be us agreeing with each other, The only thing I would challenge them on is the host's "Strong Atheism" but as he knows his strong atheism (A-Theism Definition) is faith based on personal experience and evidence I wouldn't fault him on that either, he is entitled to believe God does not exist based on his "The problem of Evil" argument.
@HebrewTiger there is more than the "problem of evil argument" and i think they would ask you the same question:
why do you believe god may have spoken to some people. and what you think it is just one god, not many, not a space alien trying to deceive us. there is an infinite amount of things that i can tell you that you can't disprove.
@leptismagna10 They have every right to ask why I personally believe something, but they have no right to demand absolute proof, I have evidence based faith for the existence of God like he has Evidence based faith that God does not exist like he stated before. I think that God uses this universe as a testing ground for sentient beings and inspires us through many ways including giving us signs that lead to God's existence. I don't claim it's fact though.
@HebrewTiger uh huh, very good, and what lead you to think such things, tell me. Because i can come up with a billion other "probable" things. and what is your evidence for your faith?
@leptismagna10 I have dodged nothing, My evidence based faith comes from, Fine Tuning, Ontology, Morality, Artistic beauty, Biological complexity design, Philosophical reasoning, Personal experience, Observation of the variety of Energy types, The fallacy of something from nothing which leads me to the Eternal existence and the forementioned things take that eternal existence position into the conclusion that a designer exists behind the eternal conclusion position.
@HebrewTiger The same Way Quantum Mechanics is possible and the realms of different dimensions are. It is entirely possible and without fallacy that God Might reside outside of the known universe on a higher realm of existence and beyond our dimensional layers of comprehension, Beings ono Higher dimensions can interact with lower dimensions while the lower dimensional beings cannot have the same perceptional scope of what is beyond them. that's how it is possible. QM
@HebrewTiger yyyyeah thats sounds like science fiction.
wow, your evidence comes from arguments refuted long ago. you have a lot of catching up to do.
because there is no god, no hell, no heaven, no angels, no magic, no genies, no dragons, no unicorns, or fairies, no divine inspiration of any kind. All these things are myths pulled out of someones ass, and saying QM proves its "possible" is meaningless and no one will buy it.
@leptismagna10 No I have no catching up to do, I just come to different conclusions than you, I am up to date on every philosophical argument in the Atheist Vs Theist argument and the debate continues and will continue far into the future. And I most certainly am a Philosopher. you made another incorrect absolute claim.
@leptismagna10 You made let me count, 11 absolute claims in the last comment. So now you need to give me 11 Sets of evidence to support those claims. if you refuse to do this then you should stop making absolute claims.
@Alphacaliber I can request somebody to support absolute claims with evidence for those claims, If you make a claim then you need to support it. If I told you "I know 100% that Aliens do not exist" would you accept this claim on my assertion alone?
@HebrewTiger I do get your point and nyes, I would challenge you to provide evidence however aliens are different to deities and when I said 'You cannot be called upon to prove a negative' i was talking about atheism and religion, not aliens. Atheism does not hold the position of knowledge or the claim that "There is definately no god", only the lack of beliefe in 1 or more supernatural entities. Aliens are different because, presumably, they are in a physical state as we are and we can test....
@Alphacaliber But when have I made such claims?, and yes I can compare 2 Un-knowns, If they can be logically explained as a possibility that they might exist. Did you not read the actual debate I had with the guy on this Page?, He did claim that God does not exist as an absolute, I was addressing him, He claimed that Other dimensions such as heaven do not exist as an absolute. Please read throough what was actually said. I make no absolute claims unless in the field of mathematics.
@HebrewTiger their existance as it is demonstrable. I, myself, believe that the scientific community (of which I am hoping to become a member) will never be able to disprove god(s) as it/they stand(s) now.
@Alphacaliber I can demonstrate using Dimensions and QM how such things could possibly exist as a premise and basic scientific Model, so in accordance to the scientific method those speculative models are possible. Aslong as I follow reasonable logic and my case has no fallacy I could Suggest such things as Higher dimensions, a Creator etc etc might exist.
@Alphacaliber On a personal note I would like to say to you, as you are entering into the Scientific fields I wish you all the best, I am entering into the field of Philosophy, let me request and say, Please keep up to date on Philosophy along your way and not make the mistake of Richard Dawkins, his reasoning is out of balence he totally neglected his philosophical training along the way blindly following Kant. I will pledge and say to you I will keep up to Date on my Science studies too.
@HebrewTiger Thanks, Although I don't totally agree with everything Dawkins says I do think he is right in principle. I want to study evolution. I don't care for philosophy a great deal, only the truth of our past. The evidence for evolution is overwhelming and I would like to add to it. Good luck in your endeavors.
@Alphacaliber Evolution is an interesting set of theories there is evidence to support Micro evolution, the other 5 types of evolution i'm not so keen on, especially elemental/chemical and cosmic evolution. I find it a stretch that (H) can evolve into (U) for example in chemical evolution. But never the less I wish you the best in your chosen field.
Maybe you should start by learning some facts about scientific terminology?
While "evolution" itself is just a word that's basically the subjective of "to evolve" and can be applied to anything, the "theory" of "evolution" starts and ends with THE CHANGE OF SPECIES OVER TIME.
Cosmic evolution is called "physical cosmology", and chemical is "nucleosynthesis". There is molecular evolution, but it actually is simply an aspect of biological evolution.
Point is, no field of science that has nothing to do with the evolution of species actually contains the name "evolution" in its title - and even if some do, that still doesn't make it a part of a "set" of theories that also contains biological evolution.
Microevolution is the evolution within a species, macroevolution is evolution into another species. Both have been observed in nature. Microevolution isn't a separate "theory", either.
@twooffour The textbooks say otherwise many types of evolution are taught to highschool and college students all over the world, Cosmic evolution, Macro evolution, Chemical evolution etc, I have not seen any Observation based experiments proving these so far, if you have any evidence I would be interested to see it because this subject is of interest to me.
Well, I haven't looked at those textbooks, but as I said, even if other fields of science are called "evolution", it's still not the theory of evolution referring to biodiversity.
Cosmic evolution, what is that, the Big Bang theory? I haven't studied that yet, but as far as I know, there's enough evidence for that - enough to have changed the previous warm'n'fuzzy "eternal universe" paradigm in the scientific community into the weirdness that is modern physics.
As for Macro Evolution, again, it's the process of one species evolving into another species - meaning simply that they no longer can interbreed with each other.
This process has been observed in real time in nature, and it's very easy to google.
@twooffour I have studied briefly on these claims and noticed a certain type of Rabbit that can no longer produce offspring with other types Rabbits, but they are still both Rabbits... and when I question this and say well it's still the same type of animal I am told "Give it more time and it will turn into a completely new type of animal" I see that as speculation not something that can be observed.
But the classification of "rabbit" solely exists because they look familiar - it's already a new species, and that, like it or not, is what they call "macroevolution".
If you wanna make up a new name for "transition from crocodile to frog" or something like that (unless one already exists), then do so, but "macroevolution" is already taken.
In that area, from what I know, various fossils, as well as DNA, show "transitional" similarities between different, as you say, "kinds".
Speciation is observed multiple times; animals can change their appearence this way SIGNIFICANTLY (dogs within the same species can have larger differences in appearences than two fruit flies of different species, btw); and, "transitional links" showing similarity between very different species are found.
What is the creationist's position at this point? Animals can change their appearence and split into species, but... if there's a larger dfrence..
... between two "kinds", and transitional species that show similarities to both are found, that still doesn't point to gradual change and is better explained by a "designer who built similar cars"?
I'm not even sure if you're a creationist, but this objection is one I don't get at all. Is there any evidence that there's some kind of "frontier" between species that look different, so that they'll evolve and change, but after a given point, they'll stop?
@twooffour I'm not an evolutionist or a creationist, this is one subject where I don't lean in favour either way I'm still weighing up the evidence from each camp before I make my objective stance. I do believe in a Creator and I do acknowledge Micro evolution and variety within the species. I am not sure if the archetype of each kind of animal was designed and then they evolved into distinct species after, I don't lean towards a single common ancestor for all species as it leads to Abiogenesis.
Actually, one common ancestor or 1000, either lead to abiogenesis, if you think about it ;)
Anyway, nice that you're not a creationist always eager to fill perceived "gaps" with religious ideas, but can you at least, dunno... "adapt" to the newly received information?
Again, macroevolution, in the ONLY WAY IT'S DEFINED BY SCIENTISTS, is a fact.
@twooffour Well I agree if I think I know what you are implying lol, But theres a big difference between the 2, 1 would be Naturalistic Abiogenesis, the other would be Divine Design Abiogenesis. I mean I don't think that a single cell could have just randomly compiled itself it's far too comples and the odd's of it happening are like 10 to the 10 billionth power (Not accurate just gesturing) I do take in all evidence I am presented with and I will be objective when making decisions.
@twooffour No I never appeal to a "God of the gaps" argument it is based on obbservation of complexity and weighing up the odds, if something is mathematically so improbable that it would border on near impossible then that is not invoking an argument of ignorance or gaps, it is strictly appealing to mathematical imporbablity. If you know how laws work it doesn't mean you throw God out the window, it makes me appreciate God all the more.
@HebrewTiger you are operating under the assumption that the first cell had to be a complete cell with DNA, RNA, proteins, and phospholipid membranes, when its actually quite probable that a much simpler self-replicating RNA molecule formed first, which is not statistically improbable at all. I am sure scientists will soon come up with an idea of what that original RNA sequence was and be able to recreate it.
@HebrewTiger just because you say something supernatural is possible doesn't mean that it is because your claim has not being contested by counter proofs.
Because the impossibility is all around you as the default: nothing can break natural law. The non existence of supernatural or paranormal things is by default disprove, otherwise we would live in a world without physical laws which are constant.
@HebrewTiger you are the one who must demonstrate HOW these constant physical laws can be broken...not say to me "show how they cannot be broken...and if you fail it merits my claim that gods or angels exist".
i think you need to read about the following subjects: philosophy, science and physics. And stop going to the creation museum in Kentucky.
@leptismagna10 How is my demonstration of other dimensions any different to the multi verse or string theory, you say my demonstration and model is not valid or viable because it cannot be disproved. Please explain to me how you can disprove the multiverse and string theory. Which are models and not backed up with pillars of evidence, the only evidence you can give for the multi-verse is that one universe exists so others might. Thats all you have and that is not solid evidence at all.
@leptismagna10 Uh huh, I said "Might" and I have already explained how it can be demonstrated by using Dimensions and QM, I did no less of a Job explaining my brief model than is used when describing a Multi-verse or String theory, If you accept alot of the modern speculative models based on QP MV and ST then you would have no trouble comprehending my premise of higher dimensions and realms beyond our physical universe.
@HebrewTiger speculative theories based on QP and so on do not include theories about the existence of goblins, fairies, gods answering prayers and parting the red sea. Using QP to prove bedtime stories to be possible is not what QP is for.
Thats what you do not understand. religion is a bunch of fairy tales made up long ago. Someone pulled it out of his ass. Understand this!
In fact, religion is based upon the idea that its claims have no proof at all from any angle. Just tribal blind faith.
@leptismagna10 Nice try, it will probably fool alot of Naturalists, Are you talking about things like for example, how the Multi-verse theory was speculated upon to avoid the question of something comming from nothing in the big bang singularity scenario?. Or how string theory explains dimensions beyond our observational comprehension. Or are you slinging in Goblins and tooth fairy's (like dawkins loves to do) because I can actually demonstrate how God and other dimensions are possible.
@HebrewTiger your doing what a lot of theists love to do, using multi dimensions and multi universe theories arising from understanding of the natural world to try and give merit to your mumbo-jumbo.
@HebrewTiger you think angels and magic is possible...but evolution is clearly not? woww. you sound exactly like a creationsit: "but its STLL a rabbit!".
and i don't have to prove that something that came out of someone's imagination doesn't exist, especially when that claim is not based on absolutely evidence and/or reasonable assumption.
Evolution is at least far more reasonable and likely than whatever supernatural things you believe are "possible". Why don't you show how they are possible?
Philosophy, as far as I understand it, is for one thing abstracting your thought process from the facts (which can be very helpful for understanding the facts, because you can contrast them against what "has been shown to be wrong", or "what could be right instead"), as well as scrutinizing one's own thought processes on various subjects (exposing flaws in one's everyday thinking).
None of which are exactly unhelpful to anything, in my opinion.
@twooffour I didn't say it wasn't useful, I just said I didn't care for it a great deal ;) .I am more than willing and able to think about what certain evidence may mean. If dabbelling in philosophy will eventually further our understanding of our natural history then I'm all for it. I do often think earlier thoughts of mine were silly and childish from time to time. I expect a neurologist to be able to tell us that people arn't very logical at times, I think that is a trait most of us have.
@HebrewTiger explain to me HOW its possible please. If i told you that its possible for humans to breath in outer space you would be asking me HOW is it possible.
please don't just say "oooh its possible...anything's possible".
now please, once more, tell me exactly why you think god might have said something to someone.
@HebrewTiger and how do you know that god might have inspired the people who wrote these books? what is so special about these books that makes you say that? the burden of proof in on YOU. i cannot accept your claim that god speaks to people unless you give me a good reason.
i can't just say "yes" because i haven't disproved it. proof doesn't work that way.
@leptismagna10 No I did not say or make that claim, I never once said God inspires people or talks to people, I said specifically that "God might inspire people, and God might talk to people". No the burden of proof is not on the one who speculates and ponders, the burden of proof is on the one who makes claims and absolute claims.
@HebrewTiger no, it is known. the same way it is known that humans cant fly, that a circle cannot be a triangle.
some things are absolute.
but please share what prompts you to think that god "might" have spoken to someone. can you give an example? do you have good reason for your position?
@HebrewTiger you should try and give a call to the show. they will have a more interesting discussion with you than they do with most idiotic christians.
@leptismagna10 You make exactly the same mistake Theist's often make, i'm surprised you don't see the double standards here, You leave yourself open to a complete philosophical knock down argument and refutation against your case, You also cannot even tell me that God is not inspiring me right now, he might even be inspiring you without you knowing it and projecting thoughts into your mind, in the hope that you debate somebody like me. Be carefull with slinging around absolute claims.
@HebrewTiger how am i making a mistake? i'm not the one making an unprovable claim about the supernatural. extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
yet you say i'm mistaken for rejecting those evidence-less claims...because i can't disprove them?? do i just have to accept anything anyone tells me because i can't disprove it?
how do you disprove something that you can't prove in the first place?
@leptismagna10 I mad no such claims, look you are not debating a Christian here or a dogmatic theist, you are debating a Philosopher, You are probably used to debating Bible believing Christians and Muslims, so please stop trying to place claims from old books on me, Im saying "God Miight inspire people" You are saying "God 100% Does not and never will inspire people" that is a fallacy.
@xukun0 i think your very mistaken. The quran was written by human beings, there is absolutely nothing in there that can confirm the existence of a supernatural being. Such proofs cannot be found in books or through the language of humans.
The quran is the words, stories and poetry of ancient Arabs. You are still in fact practicing their ancient Jahili religion by praying towards their Kaaba idol in Mecca, while thinking that you are in fact worshiping a god.
If God continues to be foiled by our sin, how is he all powerful and all knowing? That;s very curious to me. The creator of the universe is continuously bested by a taint in which he placed before us through temptation, all while trying more than once to correct the mistake in which he is partly responsible, and refuses to construct a fool proof plan that would save the world from burning damnation.
Is sin a more powerful force than God? Seems that way... well, I ask you, how is he a God?
Faith can someday bring peace on earth! No living human beings mean no war ever! In the words of George Carlin, "Ancient hatreds and modern weapons!".
@SShamit1 I had a friend from Bangladesh who was a very devout Muslim and my family is from Jordan. Although I was born and live in America, I am surrounded by a Muslim community and family that will not accept any possible secular view, especially from one of their own. I remember the response I got as a curious child asking questions that were deemed "haraam".
@SShamit1 Depends on the community and the generation. Muslims my age born in the US are much more tolerant. My elders, however, who were raised in the Middle East and moved here as teenagers or younger tend to not be so accepting. Where about are you moving? I live in New Jersey.
@SShamit1 But you said studies so you should be fine. Any Muslims I met at college were very open minded. I even attended a few MSA (Muslim Student Association) meetings and events when I was still in the closet about my atheism. You should be fine, I'm mostly talking about my family and friends of the family. You see, I am Cherkess (Circassian) and they stay in close tight-nit communities.
@DamienZshadow yeah but the thing is i will be living with my aunt for the first year at least, and they are very religious, so im concerned about that
@SShamit1 Oh cool, I know someone from that university. Best wishes in physics, I might be in the area every so often so drop me a message if you ever want to chill out. But as for your aunt's family, I would be cautious about how open you are. Apostasy is still apostasy and if not punished it tends to be looked down upon in Islam a lot. I am still in the closet with my family but you should gauge your family's reaction to different hypothetical questions and light conversation.
@DamienZshadow well my dad is ok with my atheism cause he himself is somewhat an agnostic and also educated, but the rest of my family is very different, so i will be a closet atheist with my family till i graduate possibly.
I am highly offended that he would say religious people lack intellect, and no we are not conditioned to believe that if you don’t share our beliefs your evil that’s just stupid. I don’t get why they seem to think religious people are Dum and lack reasoning just because of a certain belief. Of course, we have to respect others no matter what their belief is. And no the reason why religious people argue against each other is not because they seee others as some kind of devil!!
@fab4cely A lot of people of faith certainly do treat other religions as evil and are intolerant of people with different opinions and lifestyles, like homosexuality and pre marital sex for example.
Either way you are not conditioned, you are brainwashed to believe that your religion is the right one and all others are heretical and non-believers go to hell? Sound familiar?
I don't know what religion you are and it doesn't matter, but i'm sure your gods don't like non believers of your faith.
@fab4cely good, as long as you don't believe that non-believers of your faith (whatever it may be) will go to hell then your completely fine. Don't speak for other people though.
And there's nothing wrong with criticizing/making fun of religion. I respect the person (sometimes), but not the belief or ideas of his/her religion.
The caller's question is the same as mine as an American. We're living in a cult-dominated society. How do we best go about opening the eyes of the deluded?
I have always thought that if the divine exists any gods we have would simply be a reflection of ourselves in the divine because we would not be able to comprehend it. God did not create us in his image we created god in our image. If the divine exists it would be what was here at the moment of the big bang, the all, one big ball of energy that everything came form and it would not have a mind like ours if it had a mind at all, i think that it just is. But that is just my thoughts.
"Okay, that tribe got themselves conquered - let's try these twelve. Wait... that one's a dick. Eleven, and uh... that guy."
"Oh, now you're CONQUERING everyone. That's it, screw you guys. Arabs! You're up!"
"Oh, for fuck's sake, you're worse than the last guys! Fucking... you! In Baghdad! Congratulations, you're the Messiah. Get it... fucking... RIGHT this time!"
@IoEstasCedonta Alexandria was indeed home to the earliest christian communities, the coptic church was a very powerful force in shaping early christian doctrines and christology.
It is where the Old T was translated into Greek and the probably the New T was composed by Greco-Egyptian jews who mixed in a lot of Greek-Egyptian religion with their hebrew prophecies.
I have a lot of friends who are former muslims from arabic and non-arabic countries as well... there are much more than muslims want you to believe. Islam is designed to expand, spread fear and make people believe there is no discussion about morality possible outside religion. But hey that's why it's so big in the first place.
lmao you need to know the book beofre one talks wich you clearly do not. the fastest growing religion on the face of the eath with many ov the followrs being female so it pretty much proves its self then some igrant fool that thinks he knows better by virses said to muhammed in the battle fild and in regard to tolant to jews and cristhans its simply says to be warer ov um simples. anything about killing ect was said to muhammed(p.b.u.h) in the batlle fild. simples. look at palestine
so you say if a virus is growing fast, it is a good virus?
and i know more about islam than you.. you are blinded by it so you have no idea
i live in an islamic country.. half my family are muslims.. you don't need to teach me anything.. i don't need a book which came from a pedophile slave driving murdering sheep herder
@rudeboywaz fastest growing ignorance on the face of the earth does not sound good to me. I would prefer fastest growing knowledge and reason, but thats beyong any religion.
@rudeboywaz fastest growing ignorance on the face of the earth does not sound good to me. I would prefer fastest growing knowledge and reason, but thats beyong any religion.
Topics: WINNING ARGUMENTS FOR CREATIONISM-EVOLUTIONISM DEBATE (See Subchapter 10.2.2, Chapter 10, of Part Two.), The Issue On The Criminal Liability Of Foretelling The END OF THE WORLD, Other Debated Issues, Terrorism, War, Law, Politics, Religion, Philosophy, Science, Others.
Websites: balancedway.yolasite.com
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See Announcements at announcements-balancedway.weebly.com
...of a different flavor of the same religion as Islam.
They even work in nearly the same ways and have nearly the same effects on their respective societies! This, I think, is the most chilling realization I gained from this call, and I think that the 9/11 attacks and Anders Brevik's terrorist attacks in Norway, both stereotypical of their respective faiths, serve as good evidence of this. And apparently so does the Dept. of Homelamd Security, who keeps repeatedly trying to warn us of domesti
Honestly, this makes me see both Islam in a far, FAR more positive light than before and Christianity in a far, FAR more negative light than before. Islam is, in a surface theology kinda way at least, essentially a slightly different and slightly more amplified version of unreformed Christianity and *nothing* more. Christianity, on the other hand, is a _somewhat_ reformed (I say because the anti-abortion movement is a clear sign that reformation may be fading) version o
Like, this is call is so eye-opening for me. I just never realized, having never been _truely_ exposed to Islam, just HOW FUCKING SIMILAR the two religions are to each other in practice! I can really see how this highly intelligent Egyptian could randomly run into this show on YouTube somehow (this was right before the Arab Spring, remember) and relate to it SO well that he continued to watch. I mean, I'm STUNNED. It sounds like they have *many* of the same problems regarding religion that we d
I mean, this country's first REAL exposure to Islam was primarily through Al Qeada and their stereotype, so what I find so...fascinating about this call is JUST how fucking SIMILAR the more Christian areas of the United States (esp. the more rural areas of the southern "Bible Belt" states like Texas, Arkansas, Louisiana, Oklahoma, etc.) are compared to how this caller is describing the Islamic Egyptian society in Alexandria!
Wow. As an American born and raised whose never had the chance to really travel abroad (not even to Canada, even tho Niagara Falls, Ontario is just 30 miles from my house), I must say that this is BY FAR the most fascinating call I've EVER heard on the show. Like, most people here in the 'States have ZERO idea what Middle Eastern Islamic societies are like AT ALL, and I must say, I'm guilty of this as well.
In 05:45 we have one of the best description of Christianity-Islam conflict! I like this show! You are a true atheists! Not "atheists" just to attack muslims -not even to attack Islam as those far right conservative "atheist" trolls!
My favorite bible chapter is Leviticus 14 (15 too if you wish). In this chapter, god lays out his cure for leprosy. A must read, bring your popcorn. I laughed so hard when I read this yesterday. It seems antibiotics may have been a better choice, you make the call.
ultim4t32 6 days ago
unbelievers are the “vilest of created beings” (98:6). Unbelievers are unclean (9:28)
Sahih al-Bukhari, 9:83:17: "Whoever changed his (Islamic) religion, then kill him"
Watch out for your safety mate, because if you say you are an atheist, they can hurt you and even kill you.
SicSeb 2 weeks ago
The Ministry of Virtue and Vice? That's practically out of 1984.
werebee 1 month ago 2
@r0l0kcs actually, as an arab who has read and heard the quran, i can tell you that its only good as the first book ever put together in Arabic.
the quran is a cocktail of arabic-syriac texts ranging from poetry of different tribes, and stories of the prophets taken from the old testament. 60% of the quran is boring repetition and threats made by allah to his enemies.
I have read MUCH better Arabic literature.
leptismagna10 1 month ago
@leptismagna10 Thank you for the information about the origins of poetry in the quran! This is interesting. I'm curious; What kind of Arabic literature would you recommend? Maybe there exist good translations of these literature.
r0l0kcs 1 month ago
@r0l0kcs There are plenty of great modern and pre-modern Arabic writers from several countries. You'll find most of these writers come from Egypt, Syria and Iraq, rarely from Saudi Arabia.
Naguib Mahfouz and Youssef al Sebaa'y are two of my favorite authors. There is also great poetry from the 16th century, Hafiz of Shiraz, although its in Persian not arabic.
leptismagna10 1 month ago
@r0l0kcs these authors and poets wrote things that were much more meaningful and creative than anything in the quran.
The quran was written by Arabs. The poetry and prose and science of the middle ages were not done by arabs, but by Arabized people of North Africa and the levant, where there was already an established Hellenistic (but also christian unfortunately) civilization.
The arabs themselves, and the religion they created, has done nothing for humanity.
leptismagna10 1 month ago
@leptismagna10 Thank you for all the information, you gave me, about these authors! I'm an atheist myself and therefore feel kind of honored to talk to an Arabic atheist, because it's so much easier to be an atheist in western countries (except for certain "bible belt"-regions in the US; look for "bible belt" in wikipedia).
You're the first Arab I'm talking to over youtube, whose mind is not clouded by religion. I'm glad that people like you exist. :)
r0l0kcs 1 month ago
very good
Ikhwanalsafa 1 month ago
aah , tell me about it , I live in egypt , it a living hell
DrJUSTX 1 month ago
@leptismagna10 oh you're the guy speaking? Just wanted to say that you're awesome :D
InfinityDz 1 month ago
@InfinityDz thank you sir. I'm still alive and kicking, although really sad for my country.
Today was Egypt's first parliament session and its full of bearded Islamo-nazis.
leptismagna10 1 month ago 2
@leptismagna10 kinda ironic to say, but may God (the true one not the psychotic one) help us all
InfinityDz 1 month ago
I'm liking this guy!
InfinityDz 1 month ago
It was a "Rural Legend" ....and by Rural.. i mean REALLY Rural
test123ok 1 month ago
The only reason Egypt was considered secular and liberal was because Mubarak kept the Islamist majority at bay. That's going to change now. Poll the average Egyptians about their views on religion and they are actually just as insane as Saudis.
kalbahamut 1 month ago
he is not egyption and his accent
MinecraftKSA 3 months ago
@MinecraftKSA People can move to other countrys an move back,he could even be american that went to live there an became a citizen, when he speaks fast it sounds like hes used to speaking arabic which is a very quick language compared to english and say spanish.Ramadan you only fast during daylight and you can eat and drink at night.Its not 2 weeks no water or food, other wise islam wouldnt exist cos theyd all be dead lmao
Thelondonbadger 2 months ago
@leopoldleoleo he probably never existed.
itchygonads 3 months ago
prayer police...PRAYER POLICE! that sounds like something from a dystopian novel or movie or something... reminds me of the handmaid's tale by margaret atwood... the christian equivalent... i think!
gablison 3 months ago
@gablison i always thought that Orwell's 1984 can apply to both the Muslim and Christian gods.
The first 90% of the book Big Brother is portrayed as a dictator who you must become a slave to: Allah
The very end of the book when Winston "loves" his dictator after so much abuse: Jesus.
leptismagna10 3 months ago
That's an excellent point made by the caller. 'Why didn't God reveal himself to all people on the planet in all the languages and not just ancient Arabic? Why only reveal himself to a 7th century Arabic warlord in a cave where there were, conveniently, no witnesses to this 'miraculous' event? Anyone else smell a rat here? You would have to be an idiot to believe in any of this shit.
TheFestivelights 4 months ago 41
@TheFestivelights or why did he wait until 2000 years ago to come to earth to "save us"? Why did he bother with the 4000 years (according to the bible) of failed experiments?
ultim4t32 6 days ago
"...he's a SAAADIST! He's an absentee landlord! Worship that?! Never!"
berner 4 months ago
I worked in several Muslim countries...It was recommended in many to pretend to be a Christian rather than atheist, so they'd think of me as deluded rather than evil.....I've seen first hand the social damage Islam does, and the skewed world view it gives it's followers.
rogan71 4 months ago 37
@rogan71 islam is a religion that does not deal with the intellect, so i always understood, even as a child, that this religion can make people violent and aggressive. Of course cultural factors (psychosocial) are crucial but all in all it makes me wonder how people even from a western culture engage in jihad etc, i mean you dont see that in otehr religions, you just dont see that.
Is it really surprising that cat "peacetrain" stevens supports the death penalty on salman rushdie? no surprise
Serpico261 4 months ago
@Serpico261 look back in history, the dark ages. Christianity was exactly the same. Other religions do those things but now they are losing the battle for control over the masses (slowly but surely). the first step to breaking the islamics out of the control of the church is to free them from the islamic dark ages
JEL625 3 months ago
I am very impressed with anyone who has the courage to be atheist in a predominantly Islamic society. That takes some guts.
ozmoroid 4 months ago
Complex*
HebrewTiger 4 months ago
It's strange everything they say seems to only apply to the indoctrinated, I came to being a believer in a creator much later in life than most people, I went through my entire Childhood being a non believer, I am the reverse of the host of this show and it just seems like he is self projecting alot because nothing they say describes my experience, I come from a mainly agnostic family of Hebrew origin and i came to believe in God strictly through studying the universe, science and philosophy.
HebrewTiger 4 months ago
@HebrewTiger the caller was talking about the belief in the holiness of the quran, and scripture. If you believe in a god through observing the universe, that is your own deistic non-tribal opinion.
But if you pray to this god and expect and expect to go to paradise for it, that is not rational.
It is totally absurd and brainwashed to be convinced that a god wrote a book with instructions for you on how to think and live your life while completely ignoring the natural world.
leptismagna10 4 months ago
@leptismagna10 I semi agree with you on some of that, It just sounded like the hosts were implying "All belief in God is indoctrination and illogical" basically came off as if people cannot come to belief in God through evidence based faith like I did, with the book thing, I don't think it is out of the question that people have been inspired to give good advice to their cultures, I'm not saying God wrote actual books but he may of inspired some of the content in say, Vedas,Gospel,Quran,Dharmas
HebrewTiger 4 months ago
@HebrewTiger first i find it open minded of you to consider all the claimed holy books (from arab to indian) to be equally enlightening without being biased or supremacist to one religion.
But you must consider what the word "God" in the context of atheists reaction to religion. For the shows hosts, the word God means someone you believe is existing behind the curtain of reality puppeteering the universe who will reward and/or punish you based on how much you spend your life flattering him.
leptismagna10 4 months ago
@HebrewTiger you also must understand that the show is less targeted towards people like you who hold a deistic belief (unless you believe in prayer) and those who believe they should force other people to adopt views and lifestyles befitting what they think god wants of everyone.
such people are those who are homophobic, religious supremacists, against premarital sex, abortion, and interfaith marriage, and they believe that all other faiths other than theirs is heresy and hell-worthy.
leptismagna10 4 months ago
@HebrewTiger but most of all its about truth. What can you prove to be true and what is untrue? This stance of this show is such that the kind of god or gods believed in since the beginning of culture are simply inventions of those cultures.
And whatever is up there, if there is something supernatural, it hasn't said anything to anyone, anytime, anywhere and never will, ever. Religion has been used to take advantage of people's fears and to silence philosophical inquisitiveness about nature.
leptismagna10 4 months ago
@leptismagna10 No this is not correct philosophy, I made no absolute claims, you made an absolute claim just then saying "Whatever is up there (Ie God) Has NEVER said anything to anyone and NEVER will" Now you have to give supporting evidence to back up your absolute claim because burden of proof is on you. I say "God might have inspired those people" or "God may speak to people" none of my claims are of the absolute nature they are philosophical speculations and ponderings. this is a fallacy.
HebrewTiger 4 months ago
@HebrewTiger umm, no, the burden of proof is not upon me, it is upon the claim maker, because there is no proof that god has ever spoken to anyone.
All the books and religious doctrines are just completely man made, and all prophets where liars, because they were bad people and why the hell would god just speak to one person...why not speak to all humanity at the same time to avoid religious conflict?
leptismagna10 4 months ago
@leptismagna10 You did just make a claim though, your claim was "God does not and never will speak or inspire anybody" that is a claim an absolute claim no less. So yes the burden of proof is on you for that particular claim.
HebrewTiger 4 months ago
@HebrewTiger because in all of history there has never been a single time where a god ever did speak to someone. There have been plenty of claims, and they all failed to supply proof, there fore ALL claims in the past are wrong.
leptismagna10 4 months ago
@leptismagna10 You just made another absolute claim what is wrong with your philosophical reasoning ability, you stepped in another fallaxy right there again just re-worded. There is no absolute proof that God has never spoken to anybody in the past. you just asserted that God hasn't. I am not saying "God Has definately spoken to people in the past" im saying "God might have I do not know"
HebrewTiger 4 months ago
@HebrewTiger you know, i think that if god spoke to someone, we would know. it would not be a "mmmmmmaybe", it would be a fucking mind blow to the entire universe.
this is why i reject all religious claims.
leptismagna10 4 months ago
@leptismagna10 You made another assertion, you can't keep doing this my friend please stop asserting randomly. You don't know if God has an agenda or a motive for things God does. The counterfactuals of free will explain this perfectly. We cannot just assert "God would do this, God would do that" We have no evidence to suggest we know what god would or would not do. I can refute that by simply saying "What if God dosn't want to prove to everyone he exists directly". its just circular speculation
HebrewTiger 4 months ago
@HebrewTiger why would god want to do anything? why would god even exist at all? does his existence serve a greater purpose?
you what we also dont have? evidence that there even is a god!
and also what makes you think that there is only one god? why not many? also, please answer, what makes you think god might have talked to people.
thinking that "anything is possible" because there's no absolute disproofs doesn't make you a philosopher.
leptismagna10 4 months ago
@leptismagna10 That's just like asking "Why do you want to do anything" Why woouldn't he want to do something?, The second is the same as asking "Why does the universe exist atall" either you have circular arguments based on the Eternal, or you have something comming from nothing, and the second is a logical fallacy Which is why I choose the Eternal existence position becauseit has no fallacy. I say God might have inspired/Guided people because it is simply a possibility without a fallacy.
HebrewTiger 4 months ago
@HebrewTiger so just forget about everything and tell me why you think god may have talked to people. give an example, and explain the mechanism behind you reaching this conclusion.
leptismagna10 4 months ago
@leptismagna10 They wouldn't want me to be on this show because it wouldn't be a debate it would just be us agreeing with each other, The only thing I would challenge them on is the host's "Strong Atheism" but as he knows his strong atheism (A-Theism Definition) is faith based on personal experience and evidence I wouldn't fault him on that either, he is entitled to believe God does not exist based on his "The problem of Evil" argument.
HebrewTiger 4 months ago
@HebrewTiger there is more than the "problem of evil argument" and i think they would ask you the same question:
why do you believe god may have spoken to some people. and what you think it is just one god, not many, not a space alien trying to deceive us. there is an infinite amount of things that i can tell you that you can't disprove.
leptismagna10 4 months ago
@leptismagna10 They have every right to ask why I personally believe something, but they have no right to demand absolute proof, I have evidence based faith for the existence of God like he has Evidence based faith that God does not exist like he stated before. I think that God uses this universe as a testing ground for sentient beings and inspires us through many ways including giving us signs that lead to God's existence. I don't claim it's fact though.
HebrewTiger 4 months ago
@HebrewTiger uh huh, very good, and what lead you to think such things, tell me. Because i can come up with a billion other "probable" things. and what is your evidence for your faith?
no more dodging the question...please?
leptismagna10 4 months ago
@leptismagna10 I have dodged nothing, My evidence based faith comes from, Fine Tuning, Ontology, Morality, Artistic beauty, Biological complexity design, Philosophical reasoning, Personal experience, Observation of the variety of Energy types, The fallacy of something from nothing which leads me to the Eternal existence and the forementioned things take that eternal existence position into the conclusion that a designer exists behind the eternal conclusion position.
HebrewTiger 4 months ago
@HebrewTiger The same Way Quantum Mechanics is possible and the realms of different dimensions are. It is entirely possible and without fallacy that God Might reside outside of the known universe on a higher realm of existence and beyond our dimensional layers of comprehension, Beings ono Higher dimensions can interact with lower dimensions while the lower dimensional beings cannot have the same perceptional scope of what is beyond them. that's how it is possible. QM
HebrewTiger 4 months ago
@HebrewTiger yyyyeah thats sounds like science fiction.
wow, your evidence comes from arguments refuted long ago. you have a lot of catching up to do.
because there is no god, no hell, no heaven, no angels, no magic, no genies, no dragons, no unicorns, or fairies, no divine inspiration of any kind. All these things are myths pulled out of someones ass, and saying QM proves its "possible" is meaningless and no one will buy it.
oh and you are most certainly not a philosopher.
leptismagna10 4 months ago
@leptismagna10 No I have no catching up to do, I just come to different conclusions than you, I am up to date on every philosophical argument in the Atheist Vs Theist argument and the debate continues and will continue far into the future. And I most certainly am a Philosopher. you made another incorrect absolute claim.
HebrewTiger 4 months ago
@leptismagna10 You made let me count, 11 absolute claims in the last comment. So now you need to give me 11 Sets of evidence to support those claims. if you refuse to do this then you should stop making absolute claims.
HebrewTiger 4 months ago
@HebrewTiger You cannot be called upon to prove a negative. It is the job of the proclaimer to provide evidence.
Alphacaliber 4 months ago
@Alphacaliber I can request somebody to support absolute claims with evidence for those claims, If you make a claim then you need to support it. If I told you "I know 100% that Aliens do not exist" would you accept this claim on my assertion alone?
HebrewTiger 4 months ago
@HebrewTiger I do get your point and nyes, I would challenge you to provide evidence however aliens are different to deities and when I said 'You cannot be called upon to prove a negative' i was talking about atheism and religion, not aliens. Atheism does not hold the position of knowledge or the claim that "There is definately no god", only the lack of beliefe in 1 or more supernatural entities. Aliens are different because, presumably, they are in a physical state as we are and we can test....
Alphacaliber 4 months ago
@Alphacaliber But when have I made such claims?, and yes I can compare 2 Un-knowns, If they can be logically explained as a possibility that they might exist. Did you not read the actual debate I had with the guy on this Page?, He did claim that God does not exist as an absolute, I was addressing him, He claimed that Other dimensions such as heaven do not exist as an absolute. Please read throough what was actually said. I make no absolute claims unless in the field of mathematics.
HebrewTiger 4 months ago
@HebrewTiger their existance as it is demonstrable. I, myself, believe that the scientific community (of which I am hoping to become a member) will never be able to disprove god(s) as it/they stand(s) now.
Alphacaliber 4 months ago
@Alphacaliber I can demonstrate using Dimensions and QM how such things could possibly exist as a premise and basic scientific Model, so in accordance to the scientific method those speculative models are possible. Aslong as I follow reasonable logic and my case has no fallacy I could Suggest such things as Higher dimensions, a Creator etc etc might exist.
HebrewTiger 4 months ago
@Alphacaliber On a personal note I would like to say to you, as you are entering into the Scientific fields I wish you all the best, I am entering into the field of Philosophy, let me request and say, Please keep up to date on Philosophy along your way and not make the mistake of Richard Dawkins, his reasoning is out of balence he totally neglected his philosophical training along the way blindly following Kant. I will pledge and say to you I will keep up to Date on my Science studies too.
HebrewTiger 4 months ago
@HebrewTiger Thanks, Although I don't totally agree with everything Dawkins says I do think he is right in principle. I want to study evolution. I don't care for philosophy a great deal, only the truth of our past. The evidence for evolution is overwhelming and I would like to add to it. Good luck in your endeavors.
Alphacaliber 4 months ago
@Alphacaliber Evolution is an interesting set of theories there is evidence to support Micro evolution, the other 5 types of evolution i'm not so keen on, especially elemental/chemical and cosmic evolution. I find it a stretch that (H) can evolve into (U) for example in chemical evolution. But never the less I wish you the best in your chosen field.
HebrewTiger 4 months ago
@HebrewTiger
Maybe you should start by learning some facts about scientific terminology?
While "evolution" itself is just a word that's basically the subjective of "to evolve" and can be applied to anything, the "theory" of "evolution" starts and ends with THE CHANGE OF SPECIES OVER TIME.
Cosmic evolution is called "physical cosmology", and chemical is "nucleosynthesis". There is molecular evolution, but it actually is simply an aspect of biological evolution.
twooffour 4 months ago
@HebrewTiger
Point is, no field of science that has nothing to do with the evolution of species actually contains the name "evolution" in its title - and even if some do, that still doesn't make it a part of a "set" of theories that also contains biological evolution.
Microevolution is the evolution within a species, macroevolution is evolution into another species. Both have been observed in nature. Microevolution isn't a separate "theory", either.
twooffour 4 months ago
@twooffour The textbooks say otherwise many types of evolution are taught to highschool and college students all over the world, Cosmic evolution, Macro evolution, Chemical evolution etc, I have not seen any Observation based experiments proving these so far, if you have any evidence I would be interested to see it because this subject is of interest to me.
HebrewTiger 4 months ago
@HebrewTiger
Well, I haven't looked at those textbooks, but as I said, even if other fields of science are called "evolution", it's still not the theory of evolution referring to biodiversity.
Cosmic evolution, what is that, the Big Bang theory? I haven't studied that yet, but as far as I know, there's enough evidence for that - enough to have changed the previous warm'n'fuzzy "eternal universe" paradigm in the scientific community into the weirdness that is modern physics.
twooffour 4 months ago
@HebrewTiger
As for Macro Evolution, again, it's the process of one species evolving into another species - meaning simply that they no longer can interbreed with each other.
This process has been observed in real time in nature, and it's very easy to google.
twooffour 4 months ago
@twooffour I have studied briefly on these claims and noticed a certain type of Rabbit that can no longer produce offspring with other types Rabbits, but they are still both Rabbits... and when I question this and say well it's still the same type of animal I am told "Give it more time and it will turn into a completely new type of animal" I see that as speculation not something that can be observed.
HebrewTiger 4 months ago
@HebrewTiger
But the classification of "rabbit" solely exists because they look familiar - it's already a new species, and that, like it or not, is what they call "macroevolution".
If you wanna make up a new name for "transition from crocodile to frog" or something like that (unless one already exists), then do so, but "macroevolution" is already taken.
In that area, from what I know, various fossils, as well as DNA, show "transitional" similarities between different, as you say, "kinds".
twooffour 4 months ago
@HebrewTiger
So, to simply put the question:
Speciation is observed multiple times; animals can change their appearence this way SIGNIFICANTLY (dogs within the same species can have larger differences in appearences than two fruit flies of different species, btw); and, "transitional links" showing similarity between very different species are found.
What is the creationist's position at this point? Animals can change their appearence and split into species, but... if there's a larger dfrence..
twooffour 4 months ago
@HebrewTiger
... between two "kinds", and transitional species that show similarities to both are found, that still doesn't point to gradual change and is better explained by a "designer who built similar cars"?
I'm not even sure if you're a creationist, but this objection is one I don't get at all. Is there any evidence that there's some kind of "frontier" between species that look different, so that they'll evolve and change, but after a given point, they'll stop?
twooffour 4 months ago
@twooffour I'm not an evolutionist or a creationist, this is one subject where I don't lean in favour either way I'm still weighing up the evidence from each camp before I make my objective stance. I do believe in a Creator and I do acknowledge Micro evolution and variety within the species. I am not sure if the archetype of each kind of animal was designed and then they evolved into distinct species after, I don't lean towards a single common ancestor for all species as it leads to Abiogenesis.
HebrewTiger 4 months ago
@HebrewTiger
Actually, one common ancestor or 1000, either lead to abiogenesis, if you think about it ;)
Anyway, nice that you're not a creationist always eager to fill perceived "gaps" with religious ideas, but can you at least, dunno... "adapt" to the newly received information?
Again, macroevolution, in the ONLY WAY IT'S DEFINED BY SCIENTISTS, is a fact.
twooffour 4 months ago
@twooffour Well I agree if I think I know what you are implying lol, But theres a big difference between the 2, 1 would be Naturalistic Abiogenesis, the other would be Divine Design Abiogenesis. I mean I don't think that a single cell could have just randomly compiled itself it's far too comples and the odd's of it happening are like 10 to the 10 billionth power (Not accurate just gesturing) I do take in all evidence I am presented with and I will be objective when making decisions.
HebrewTiger 4 months ago
@HebrewTiger Well, not really, because invoking divine design would be an argument from ignorance in EITHER case.
Whether it's many ancestors or just one source, the former would only mean that abiogenesis is more likely to happen ;)
twooffour 4 months ago
@twooffour No I never appeal to a "God of the gaps" argument it is based on obbservation of complexity and weighing up the odds, if something is mathematically so improbable that it would border on near impossible then that is not invoking an argument of ignorance or gaps, it is strictly appealing to mathematical imporbablity. If you know how laws work it doesn't mean you throw God out the window, it makes me appreciate God all the more.
HebrewTiger 4 months ago
@HebrewTiger you are operating under the assumption that the first cell had to be a complete cell with DNA, RNA, proteins, and phospholipid membranes, when its actually quite probable that a much simpler self-replicating RNA molecule formed first, which is not statistically improbable at all. I am sure scientists will soon come up with an idea of what that original RNA sequence was and be able to recreate it.
trufuknplaya 4 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@HebrewTiger if you believe in a creator, you are by definition a creationists.
MagnusNyborg 4 months ago
@HebrewTiger just because you say something supernatural is possible doesn't mean that it is because your claim has not being contested by counter proofs.
Because the impossibility is all around you as the default: nothing can break natural law. The non existence of supernatural or paranormal things is by default disprove, otherwise we would live in a world without physical laws which are constant.
leptismagna10 4 months ago
@HebrewTiger you are the one who must demonstrate HOW these constant physical laws can be broken...not say to me "show how they cannot be broken...and if you fail it merits my claim that gods or angels exist".
i think you need to read about the following subjects: philosophy, science and physics. And stop going to the creation museum in Kentucky.
leptismagna10 4 months ago
@leptismagna10 How is my demonstration of other dimensions any different to the multi verse or string theory, you say my demonstration and model is not valid or viable because it cannot be disproved. Please explain to me how you can disprove the multiverse and string theory. Which are models and not backed up with pillars of evidence, the only evidence you can give for the multi-verse is that one universe exists so others might. Thats all you have and that is not solid evidence at all.
HebrewTiger 4 months ago
@HebrewTiger woops sorry, your claim that gods and angels "might" exist, coz i know you refrain from making absolute claims :)
leptismagna10 4 months ago
@leptismagna10 Uh huh, I said "Might" and I have already explained how it can be demonstrated by using Dimensions and QM, I did no less of a Job explaining my brief model than is used when describing a Multi-verse or String theory, If you accept alot of the modern speculative models based on QP MV and ST then you would have no trouble comprehending my premise of higher dimensions and realms beyond our physical universe.
HebrewTiger 4 months ago
@HebrewTiger speculative theories based on QP and so on do not include theories about the existence of goblins, fairies, gods answering prayers and parting the red sea. Using QP to prove bedtime stories to be possible is not what QP is for.
Thats what you do not understand. religion is a bunch of fairy tales made up long ago. Someone pulled it out of his ass. Understand this!
In fact, religion is based upon the idea that its claims have no proof at all from any angle. Just tribal blind faith.
leptismagna10 4 months ago
@leptismagna10 Nice try, it will probably fool alot of Naturalists, Are you talking about things like for example, how the Multi-verse theory was speculated upon to avoid the question of something comming from nothing in the big bang singularity scenario?. Or how string theory explains dimensions beyond our observational comprehension. Or are you slinging in Goblins and tooth fairy's (like dawkins loves to do) because I can actually demonstrate how God and other dimensions are possible.
HebrewTiger 4 months ago
@HebrewTiger no. your the one who is slinging in goblins and fairies, things that are absurd as prayer or magic spells.
theories of multi verse and so on spring from reasonable assumptions based on observation of the natural world.
Even if other dimensions are possible, that says nothing about how Thor or Zeus or Elohim might reside their too.
Don't mix in mythology with theoretical physicis. And god is mythology. a magic man in the sky who answers prayers and punishes you if you upset him.
leptismagna10 4 months ago
@HebrewTiger your doing what a lot of theists love to do, using multi dimensions and multi universe theories arising from understanding of the natural world to try and give merit to your mumbo-jumbo.
leptismagna10 4 months ago
@HebrewTiger but lets say god does exist...he is completely untalented and NOT worthy of worship.
leptismagna10 4 months ago
@leptismagna10 I guess you are not a fan of Art then.
HebrewTiger 4 months ago
@HebrewTiger you think angels and magic is possible...but evolution is clearly not? woww. you sound exactly like a creationsit: "but its STLL a rabbit!".
and i don't have to prove that something that came out of someone's imagination doesn't exist, especially when that claim is not based on absolutely evidence and/or reasonable assumption.
Evolution is at least far more reasonable and likely than whatever supernatural things you believe are "possible". Why don't you show how they are possible?
leptismagna10 4 months ago
@Alphacaliber
Philosophy, as far as I understand it, is for one thing abstracting your thought process from the facts (which can be very helpful for understanding the facts, because you can contrast them against what "has been shown to be wrong", or "what could be right instead"), as well as scrutinizing one's own thought processes on various subjects (exposing flaws in one's everyday thinking).
None of which are exactly unhelpful to anything, in my opinion.
twooffour 4 months ago
@twooffour I didn't say it wasn't useful, I just said I didn't care for it a great deal ;) .I am more than willing and able to think about what certain evidence may mean. If dabbelling in philosophy will eventually further our understanding of our natural history then I'm all for it. I do often think earlier thoughts of mine were silly and childish from time to time. I expect a neurologist to be able to tell us that people arn't very logical at times, I think that is a trait most of us have.
Alphacaliber 4 months ago
@HebrewTiger explain to me HOW its possible please. If i told you that its possible for humans to breath in outer space you would be asking me HOW is it possible.
please don't just say "oooh its possible...anything's possible".
now please, once more, tell me exactly why you think god might have said something to someone.
leptismagna10 4 months ago
@HebrewTiger and how do you know that god might have inspired the people who wrote these books? what is so special about these books that makes you say that? the burden of proof in on YOU. i cannot accept your claim that god speaks to people unless you give me a good reason.
i can't just say "yes" because i haven't disproved it. proof doesn't work that way.
leptismagna10 4 months ago
@leptismagna10 No I did not say or make that claim, I never once said God inspires people or talks to people, I said specifically that "God might inspire people, and God might talk to people". No the burden of proof is not on the one who speculates and ponders, the burden of proof is on the one who makes claims and absolute claims.
HebrewTiger 4 months ago
@HebrewTiger and what makes you think that god "might" have talked to people?
leptismagna10 4 months ago
@leptismagna10 Because it is a possibility, and for one to exclude an unknown with an absolute is not wise.
HebrewTiger 4 months ago
@HebrewTiger no, it is known. the same way it is known that humans cant fly, that a circle cannot be a triangle.
some things are absolute.
but please share what prompts you to think that god "might" have spoken to someone. can you give an example? do you have good reason for your position?
leptismagna10 4 months ago
@HebrewTiger you should try and give a call to the show. they will have a more interesting discussion with you than they do with most idiotic christians.
leptismagna10 4 months ago
@HebrewTiger not that i think you are an idiotic christian. i know you haven't made any reference to jesus or the bible.
leptismagna10 4 months ago
@leptismagna10 You make exactly the same mistake Theist's often make, i'm surprised you don't see the double standards here, You leave yourself open to a complete philosophical knock down argument and refutation against your case, You also cannot even tell me that God is not inspiring me right now, he might even be inspiring you without you knowing it and projecting thoughts into your mind, in the hope that you debate somebody like me. Be carefull with slinging around absolute claims.
HebrewTiger 4 months ago
@HebrewTiger how am i making a mistake? i'm not the one making an unprovable claim about the supernatural. extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
yet you say i'm mistaken for rejecting those evidence-less claims...because i can't disprove them?? do i just have to accept anything anyone tells me because i can't disprove it?
how do you disprove something that you can't prove in the first place?
leptismagna10 4 months ago
@leptismagna10 I mad no such claims, look you are not debating a Christian here or a dogmatic theist, you are debating a Philosopher, You are probably used to debating Bible believing Christians and Muslims, so please stop trying to place claims from old books on me, Im saying "God Miight inspire people" You are saying "God 100% Does not and never will inspire people" that is a fallacy.
HebrewTiger 4 months ago
victorian era! golden
naughteedesign 4 months ago
"why couldn't he just say stop fighting" (or similar), well come on that is hardly going to be interesting, god is the kid shaking the ant farm
naughteedesign 4 months ago
probably their sound guy
naughteedesign 4 months ago
@maliahmer indeed, nice and yes i could
naughteedesign 4 months ago
@Magnus:Muslim is one who devotes all his life to Allah
And submits to Him
With all his deeds.
Islam is submission to Allah.
I say.. being a Muslim is a wonderful thing
Islam is a wonderful religion.
In fact when one contemplates the Quran,
He will find no book like it in attributing to Allah what He has attributed to Himself.
Allah gave everything in it a meaning and a whys.
He spoke about the reasons for the existence of good and evil, stions for which you will find no answers in Christianity.
xukun0 4 months ago
@xukun0 i think your very mistaken. The quran was written by human beings, there is absolutely nothing in there that can confirm the existence of a supernatural being. Such proofs cannot be found in books or through the language of humans.
The quran is the words, stories and poetry of ancient Arabs. You are still in fact practicing their ancient Jahili religion by praying towards their Kaaba idol in Mecca, while thinking that you are in fact worshiping a god.
Islam is submission to Arabs.
leptismagna10 4 months ago
If God continues to be foiled by our sin, how is he all powerful and all knowing? That;s very curious to me. The creator of the universe is continuously bested by a taint in which he placed before us through temptation, all while trying more than once to correct the mistake in which he is partly responsible, and refuses to construct a fool proof plan that would save the world from burning damnation.
Is sin a more powerful force than God? Seems that way... well, I ask you, how is he a God?
IsolationInstigation 4 months ago
I left Islam 4 days ago. For good. I doubted before but now I am completely done.
SmaragdineSage 4 months ago
@SmaragdineSage Welcome!
Anzacpaul 4 months ago
Faith can someday bring peace on earth! No living human beings mean no war ever! In the words of George Carlin, "Ancient hatreds and modern weapons!".
skywize 4 months ago
Lol fake muslims always convert to other isms just like atheism! May Allah guide us all ameen!!!
xukun0 4 months ago
@xukun0 fake muslims are still muslims.
MagnusNyborg 4 months ago
Muslims & christians & jews, oh my!
Zentz29 4 months ago
I am also from a muslim country and i very much understand his problems
SShamit1 4 months ago
@SShamit1 I had a friend from Bangladesh who was a very devout Muslim and my family is from Jordan. Although I was born and live in America, I am surrounded by a Muslim community and family that will not accept any possible secular view, especially from one of their own. I remember the response I got as a curious child asking questions that were deemed "haraam".
DamienZshadow 4 months ago
@DamienZshadow i am actually moving to america next year for studies. i thought muslims there would be relatively open minded
SShamit1 4 months ago
@SShamit1 Depends on the community and the generation. Muslims my age born in the US are much more tolerant. My elders, however, who were raised in the Middle East and moved here as teenagers or younger tend to not be so accepting. Where about are you moving? I live in New Jersey.
DamienZshadow 4 months ago
@DamienZshadow i will be very likely be studying physics in stony-brook university so i will be living in new york
SShamit1 4 months ago
@SShamit1 But you said studies so you should be fine. Any Muslims I met at college were very open minded. I even attended a few MSA (Muslim Student Association) meetings and events when I was still in the closet about my atheism. You should be fine, I'm mostly talking about my family and friends of the family. You see, I am Cherkess (Circassian) and they stay in close tight-nit communities.
DamienZshadow 4 months ago
@DamienZshadow yeah but the thing is i will be living with my aunt for the first year at least, and they are very religious, so im concerned about that
SShamit1 4 months ago
@SShamit1 Oh cool, I know someone from that university. Best wishes in physics, I might be in the area every so often so drop me a message if you ever want to chill out. But as for your aunt's family, I would be cautious about how open you are. Apostasy is still apostasy and if not punished it tends to be looked down upon in Islam a lot. I am still in the closet with my family but you should gauge your family's reaction to different hypothetical questions and light conversation.
DamienZshadow 4 months ago
@DamienZshadow well my dad is ok with my atheism cause he himself is somewhat an agnostic and also educated, but the rest of my family is very different, so i will be a closet atheist with my family till i graduate possibly.
SShamit1 4 months ago
I am highly offended that he would say religious people lack intellect, and no we are not conditioned to believe that if you don’t share our beliefs your evil that’s just stupid. I don’t get why they seem to think religious people are Dum and lack reasoning just because of a certain belief. Of course, we have to respect others no matter what their belief is. And no the reason why religious people argue against each other is not because they seee others as some kind of devil!!
fab4cely 4 months ago
@fab4cely A lot of people of faith certainly do treat other religions as evil and are intolerant of people with different opinions and lifestyles, like homosexuality and pre marital sex for example.
Either way you are not conditioned, you are brainwashed to believe that your religion is the right one and all others are heretical and non-believers go to hell? Sound familiar?
I don't know what religion you are and it doesn't matter, but i'm sure your gods don't like non believers of your faith.
leptismagna10 4 months ago
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leptismagna10 4 months ago
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leptismagna10 4 months ago
@fab4cely good, as long as you don't believe that non-believers of your faith (whatever it may be) will go to hell then your completely fine. Don't speak for other people though.
And there's nothing wrong with criticizing/making fun of religion. I respect the person (sometimes), but not the belief or ideas of his/her religion.
leptismagna10 4 months ago
lol he said O.M.G at the first of the video ...so why he is using the God word if he is lost his faith in GOD ... KISS MY DIRTY SHITTY ASS
mymashark 4 months ago
@mymashark gimmie a break, O.M.G. is a common expression.
Its not like he was saying "praise the lord, god bless you Matt Dilahuanty AMEN!" repeatedly over and over.
leptismagna10 4 months ago
The caller's question is the same as mine as an American. We're living in a cult-dominated society. How do we best go about opening the eyes of the deluded?
ndrthrdr1 4 months ago
I have always thought that if the divine exists any gods we have would simply be a reflection of ourselves in the divine because we would not be able to comprehend it. God did not create us in his image we created god in our image. If the divine exists it would be what was here at the moment of the big bang, the all, one big ball of energy that everything came form and it would not have a mind like ours if it had a mind at all, i think that it just is. But that is just my thoughts.
Fireflygamer 5 months ago
@leptismagma10
Which would explain the Horus-Jesus plagerization...
macgeek2004 5 months ago
Clips like this will be legendary parts of history lessons one day.
TheLogicalKey 5 months ago
They make sure you can't see a woman's fingernails? ...how does that work, do women have to wear gloves..?
GuacamoleKun 5 months ago
"Okay, that tribe got themselves conquered - let's try these twelve. Wait... that one's a dick. Eleven, and uh... that guy."
"Oh, now you're CONQUERING everyone. That's it, screw you guys. Arabs! You're up!"
"Oh, for fuck's sake, you're worse than the last guys! Fucking... you! In Baghdad! Congratulations, you're the Messiah. Get it... fucking... RIGHT this time!"
IoEstasCedonta 5 months ago
...how the heck is Alexandria the brithplace of Christianity? Damascus I could see... or Istanbul...
IoEstasCedonta 5 months ago
@IoEstasCedonta
I think he meant the Coptic Christianity
Oddonan 5 months ago
@IoEstasCedonta Alexandria was indeed home to the earliest christian communities, the coptic church was a very powerful force in shaping early christian doctrines and christology.
It is where the Old T was translated into Greek and the probably the New T was composed by Greco-Egyptian jews who mixed in a lot of Greek-Egyptian religion with their hebrew prophecies.
leptismagna10 5 months ago
I have a lot of friends who are former muslims from arabic and non-arabic countries as well... there are much more than muslims want you to believe. Islam is designed to expand, spread fear and make people believe there is no discussion about morality possible outside religion. But hey that's why it's so big in the first place.
MrAgelis 5 months ago
@realbojay
lmao you need to know the book beofre one talks wich you clearly do not. the fastest growing religion on the face of the eath with many ov the followrs being female so it pretty much proves its self then some igrant fool that thinks he knows better by virses said to muhammed in the battle fild and in regard to tolant to jews and cristhans its simply says to be warer ov um simples. anything about killing ect was said to muhammed(p.b.u.h) in the batlle fild. simples. look at palestine
rudeboywaz 5 months ago
@rudeboywaz
so you say if a virus is growing fast, it is a good virus?
and i know more about islam than you.. you are blinded by it so you have no idea
i live in an islamic country.. half my family are muslims.. you don't need to teach me anything.. i don't need a book which came from a pedophile slave driving murdering sheep herder
realbojay 5 months ago 3
@rudeboywaz fastest growing ignorance on the face of the earth does not sound good to me. I would prefer fastest growing knowledge and reason, but thats beyong any religion.
ExcaliburClan 5 months ago
@rudeboywaz fastest growing ignorance on the face of the earth does not sound good to me. I would prefer fastest growing knowledge and reason, but thats beyong any religion.
ExcaliburClan 5 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
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TheServiceWeb 6 months ago
...domestic, _American_, *right-wing* terrorism.
macgeek2004 6 months ago
...of a different flavor of the same religion as Islam.
They even work in nearly the same ways and have nearly the same effects on their respective societies! This, I think, is the most chilling realization I gained from this call, and I think that the 9/11 attacks and Anders Brevik's terrorist attacks in Norway, both stereotypical of their respective faiths, serve as good evidence of this. And apparently so does the Dept. of Homelamd Security, who keeps repeatedly trying to warn us of domesti
macgeek2004 6 months ago
@macgeek2004 that was a very insightful reaction, thumbs up to your entire post!
leptismagna10 5 months ago
...do (and vice versa)!
Honestly, this makes me see both Islam in a far, FAR more positive light than before and Christianity in a far, FAR more negative light than before. Islam is, in a surface theology kinda way at least, essentially a slightly different and slightly more amplified version of unreformed Christianity and *nothing* more. Christianity, on the other hand, is a _somewhat_ reformed (I say because the anti-abortion movement is a clear sign that reformation may be fading) version o
macgeek2004 6 months ago
Like, this is call is so eye-opening for me. I just never realized, having never been _truely_ exposed to Islam, just HOW FUCKING SIMILAR the two religions are to each other in practice! I can really see how this highly intelligent Egyptian could randomly run into this show on YouTube somehow (this was right before the Arab Spring, remember) and relate to it SO well that he continued to watch. I mean, I'm STUNNED. It sounds like they have *many* of the same problems regarding religion that we d
macgeek2004 6 months ago
I mean, this country's first REAL exposure to Islam was primarily through Al Qeada and their stereotype, so what I find so...fascinating about this call is JUST how fucking SIMILAR the more Christian areas of the United States (esp. the more rural areas of the southern "Bible Belt" states like Texas, Arkansas, Louisiana, Oklahoma, etc.) are compared to how this caller is describing the Islamic Egyptian society in Alexandria!
macgeek2004 6 months ago
Wow. As an American born and raised whose never had the chance to really travel abroad (not even to Canada, even tho Niagara Falls, Ontario is just 30 miles from my house), I must say that this is BY FAR the most fascinating call I've EVER heard on the show. Like, most people here in the 'States have ZERO idea what Middle Eastern Islamic societies are like AT ALL, and I must say, I'm guilty of this as well.
macgeek2004 6 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
In 05:45 we have one of the best description of Christianity-Islam conflict! I like this show! You are a true atheists! Not "atheists" just to attack muslims -not even to attack Islam as those far right conservative "atheist" trolls!
Peristerygr 6 months ago
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soorakitty 6 months ago
There should be more outspoken Muslim atheists
FreeFromWar 6 months ago
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Peristerygr 6 months ago
21,000 view!
HandDownMansDown 6 months ago
im a big fan of the show but I'm a bit suspicious about this guy, he is from Egypt but doesnt even have a accent, kind of suspicious thats all.
JS1989RENEWED 7 months ago
@JS1989RENEWED It's called an education lol
HandDownMansDown 6 months ago