Secret Pre-Trib Rapture - Biblically Examined #2

[ChristianSBblackwolf]

2 Thessalonians 2:1-15

[receivejesusnow]

First you say that the belief which many people is most likely to be false.... doesn't that mean that post-trib is wrong because a lot of people believe in post-trib rather than pre-trib??

[richardperry2]

@receivejesusnow - There is not one bit of Scriptural evidence for a Pre-Trib Rapture, not one verse.

Post-Trib is clearly stated in Scripture starting with Christ, who said "after the Tribulation" in Matthew 24:29

[ljackso]

@richardperry2 : I believe you are confusing the Rapture with the Second Coming. In the Rapture Christ does NOT return to the Earth. We meet Him in the air. At the Second Coming, at the end of the Tribulation, we return WITH Christ and He will set up His Kingdom and we will rule and rein with Him for 1000 years. Maranatha!

[richardperry2]

@ljackso - check out my last video - Time of the End Timeline - Part 7

[ljackso]

@richardperry2: I watched the video and although there are many truths there and I think your are in the right place but I do not agree with all of your comments. When is the wedding Supper of the Lamb? What about all the passages about being spared from the wrath to come? I would take up your offer for the gold coin but I know you would just dismiss anything I offered. I think you are using your website to generate 'business' for yourself and your books. Why did God chose you? Are you that holy

[richardperry2]

@ljackso - Why me? I guess because I believe what He says and I listen occasionally.

The wedding banquet is actually the Feast of Tabernacles which is part of the Harvest feast of ingathering which is the last of the final 3 unfulfilled feasts. These feasts will be fulfilled begining with Christ's return - after the Great Tribulation.

[ljackso]

@richardperry2: I think the "Church" made a big mistake when it lost it connection to our Jewish roots. I wish I understood more about the feast of Israel and I do believe that Christ fulfilled all the Spring Feast and that He will fulfill all the Fall Feast when He returns. I do not have all the answers but I do know that I ache for His return. May it be soon!! Maranatha!

[sidrojoe]

@richardperry2

I am in full agreement with you. If Matt. 24;29-31 were the only scriptures concerning the return of Christ, it would immediately cast serious doubt on the pre-trib rapture doctrine. This is Jesus Christ speaking, and He emphatically states that He will return AFTER the TRIBULATION of those days. He also emphatically states that He will send his angels to gather together His elect AFTER the TRIBULATION. Do plain, easy to understand words mean nothing to people? God bless

[richardperry2]

@sidrojoe - Many don't read the Word for understanding and prefer to rely on the popular feel good words of Men who desire to please their audiences.

[JesusHoldMyHand1]

@sidrojoe Do you not know that the Raptured Old Testament Saints & the New Testament Saints are in Heaven & return WITH Christ at His 2nd Coming? Revelation 17:14 Do you not know that at the Rapture we get our Crowns? The Rapture already happened in Revelation 4:1-4, that's why the elders HAVE their Crowns. JUDGMENT SEAT OF CHRIST Do you not know that the Judgments & Wrath that are poured out on the whole, UNREPENTANT world are from Christ? Do you know that WE judge the ungodly & the angels

[ljackso]

This man has no idea what he is taking about. Maranatha!

[richardperry2]

@ljackso - Yes, I understand and know Yahweh, He speaks to me.

Maranatha!

[sowaseedoflove]

Yea and I say pray that thine flight be not in the winter, for assuredly I say to each of you, lest you find comfort in the mark of the beast you will find that you've not comfort in your own homes, yea blessed is the servent whom keeps watch. I say to you for assuredly 2 will be in the field but one having heard his masters voice will flee, knowing the time is approaching and the other a fool, will wait like a fool, for something he has not earned.

[sowaseedoflove]

None of you will be raptured, having not earned it you will not recieve it,

Blessed are those whom die in the Lord.

You will be tested and refined, made white by the blood of the Lamb inwhich is spilled for you continually and again I say.

Being blind the Spirit sought to teach you but being full you sought to teach yourself, therefor you will be tried as through fire.

You will be scattered and bruised and from thus a remnant and righteouss seed, true and shining will be born.

[1john1423]

Mathew 24:20

But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

24:21

For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

24:22

And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

[1john1423]

24:8

All * * these are the beginning of sorrows.

24:9

Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

24:10

And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.

[bibleknight]

firstly the rapture is not a secret i would hardly call millions of people disappering a secret and the rapture is not a recent doctrine as some post tribers would like us to believe there is a document by pseudo ephream that dates back to 374 AD that talks about a pre trib rapture.

[richardperry2]

Do you know what "pseudo ephream" means?

It means false Ephream!

Pseudo means false!

[bibleknight]

well in that case according to my research pseudo ephream was infulence by ephraem of nisibis who was the greatest figure of the syrian church 306- 73 AD

[CathPresbyter]

So he was so influenced that he forged a document under his name? (Like 3rd Corinthians, or Dionesius, or Thomas?)

What is the quote, and can you give me the patristic noting system so I can look it up?

[passnthrou]

it still shows the doctrine of raptur is more than 170 years old...lol

[SevenLivesManyFaces]

it wont be millions!

[IndyRockStar76]

UH OH>>> Jehovah's Witness ALERT!!!

[bektex]

Pseudo ephream dates between the 3rd and 7th centuries, and scholars dispute it being used to support the pre-trib rapture. It seems that using it as proof of the pre-trib rapture, comes from one man, Grant Jefferey. Most other scholars have their doubts about authorship, dates and meaning behind the document.

Ok. I get it now. Sketchy Extrabiblical writing that supports what I want the Bible to say is ok, as long as it is old. I am so glad we cleared that up.

[richardperry2]

True, scholars have their doubts about authorship.

That's why they call him pseudo Ephream.

"Pseudo" means False.

[EGITAYE]

The real 2 Thessolonians 1:6-7

"since it is a righteous thing with God to repay with TRIBULATION those who trouble you, and give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed in heaven with His mighty angels,"

[TomCjr]

Careful analysis of the scripture indicates there are three "phases" to the Rapture.

One "pre", one "mid", and one "post" Tribulation.

A good short treatment of the info is "Thief in the Night" on the jamlimited3 page.

If you choose to believe only the "post-Trib" version then that is likely what you will receive!

"The Truth shall set you free".

[Terri3210]

Many will be indecisive... knowing of salvation but not accepting it.

Knowing but putting it off.

These are those that will be put through the test of fire.

We saved at this time.. we are ready to meet the Lord..

Keep looking up .... Jesus said; my sheep hear my voice...

[Docwiz2]

We would know when the rapture takes place. The Tribulation is Seven years correct? So, we would all know when that is coming and that is another thing I can't believe.

The tribulation is basically the entire world having gone through horrible things and some of these things are going to be on believers as well. So I just doubt this very much. It is not logical.

[Docwiz2]

Post Tribulation does not make sense. There is not going to be hardly anyone alive anyway.

Why would Christ make people suffer needlessly who love him. The people that will be saved after the rapture (before the tribulation) makes more sense. These would be the people that are hunted down by the Anti-Christ.

As long as you follow God and you repent for your sins, he isn't going to make people suffer and die through the entire tribulation. I do not believe that.

[Friendoflord]

"Why would Christ make people suffer needlessly who love him"

Many have needlessly suffered for the sake of the messiah. Peter, Paul, steven, and the list goes on and on. Yeshua said that "you will suffer persecution" "the world hates you because it first hated me" Nowhere are we told that we (christians) will not suffer persecution, or tribulation.

[drunkenwarrior14500]

I believe in a pre trib rapture also but I thought I would mention the 144,000 jews that create a revival during the tribulation in which more people are saved than at any other time in history. or something like that. anyway the people in revelations that are in robes and under the throne, remember it says that they are those that came out of the tribulation .

[awannabewriter]

If the great tribulation is the persecution of the saints by the antichrist, then how can they be raptured before it?

Daniel 7:25

Revelation 13:7

Why do people buy into the myth of pretrib rapture? Do they not read the scriptures?

[Docwiz2]

Maybe because there will be Christians after the rapture.

Don't you think that there will be people that are saved after the Rapture?

The Two witnesses should be able to convince some people that Christ is real and thus be saved.

[FollowerofYahshua]

Don't you know that your "theory" has only been around for about 200 years? If you would have talked to anyone before then you would have been thought of as wild. Why did it get picked up. People with "itching" ears wanting to here a positive spin on something so negative. I'm sorry, but God didn't reveal the revelation to John for no reason.

[carrieanne55]

Shalom richard,

Very good information. According to matt 24 and the Parable of the tares, the evil go first! Also please go to google videos and search for gail riplinger modern bibble versions and tell me what you think God Bless