Rob Bell Series -- Part 2: Who is Origen and why does Martin Bashir care?

[mwilson70201]

If I'm not blocked let me thank you for your time. It's been most enlightening. It's not my wish to force an argument I just want to understand how you came to your view. Goodbye.

[mwilson70201]

Undoubtedly Origen is a fine example of the type of exegesis we can expect from those who hold Rob Bells doctrine of devils. How wise, how scholarly his work is. "For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent. For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe."(I Cor 1:19,21) Origen's De Principiis is a road map to hell.

[mwilson70201]

Why didn't you mention Origen's teaching on the pre existence of souls, his denial of the bodily resurrection of Christ. Origen also says the logos is really God's created Sophia (wisdom) which is feminine (Pro 4:5,6; 8:1,2) and the Neoplatonic and Aristotleian influence his ideas are based on. He ignored the apostle Paul's warning to "beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the traditions of men, after the rudiments of the world and not after Christ." (Col. 2:8)

[askalexanythingblog]

@mwilson70201 I think it's very easy for us to judge someone like Origen from where we sit now. The first 300 years of Christianity was a very tumultuous time. There were many different competing versions of Christianity and the theology we value was still being developed. Though a heretic by our standards, Origen had a deep faith in Christ and he made Christianity attractive to the most educated people of his day and laid the foundation for the future work of many church fathers.

[mwilson70201]

@askalexanythingblog The "theology being develpoed" is the problem. God's truth is not developed it is declared. The adoption of philosophical musings is expressly forbidden as is all extrabiblical knowledge.(Col 2:8) Jer 10:2 "Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them." The failure to abide by these restrictions has resulted in the corruption of the gospel. Spiritual adultery doesn't produce truth.

[askalexanythingblog]

@mwilson70201 Do you think the people of Origen's day could just walk to a bookstore and buy a Bible? Most churches had access to a single letter of Paul or a gospel for the first 300 years of Christianity. Do you think they thought exactly like you and were quoting scripture in the way you are quoting it? They couldn't because they didn't have access to the scriptures in the way you do. The New Testament wasn't even canonized until Constantine came to power around 325AD.

[mwilson70201]

@askalexanythingblog Origen 185-254 would have certainly had access to the Italic bible 120AD and the Old Latin 157AD. He wrote commentaries on Matt, Romans, Ephesians and Revelation, translations are available on line. Rome canonized it's bible in 325. Origen said sin is a lack of pure knowledge, Jesus' life was mainly an example, his soul no different from any other man's and made no definitive statement on Christ redemptive work. And of course he was familiar with Acts 3:19-21.Rush judgment?

[askalexanythingblog]

@mwilson70201 I think you are not hearing my main point. I’m not debating whether or not you've studied Origen. I’ve studied him and obviously you have too. I’m debating whether your version of Christianity, as you know it today, is something that was shared by Christians during his day, particularly your view of scripture. I did my dissertation on canonization history and I can tell you that until Augustine, most Christians did not view the New Testament as scripture in the same

[askalexanythingblog]

@mwilson70201 way you and I do today. Those books and letters were authoritative in terms of presenting a certain viewpoint of Christianity, but they were not scripture as the Old Testament was scripture. Furthermore, I don't disagree that he's a heretic. His beliefs don't add up in terms of Orthodox Christianity. Bodily resurrection is the number one requirement to fall in line with Orthodoxy. We are on the same page. However, you dismiss everything he says because he lacks that

[mwilson70201]

@askalexanythingblog The Holy Ghost bears witness to what is and isn't scripture. He is the great teacher of the saved.(I Jn 2:27) The intelligentsia have always chosen logic and scholarship over faith and God's word. Origen wasn't merely a heretic he was a blasphemer. He that denieth the Son, hath not the Father. He drank from the poisoned well of Heraclitus, Plato and Aristotle and only one who is likeminded could ascribe any weight to his uninspired ramblings. If the blind follow the blind..

[gracetalks04]

@mwilson70201amen brother: )

[askalexanythingblog]

@mwilson70201 belief. Yes, it’s a core doctrine, but that doesn’t mean God can’t speak grains of truth through him. I found many of his works to be very interesting. I disagree with much of what he says, but that doesn’t mean I can’t glean something meaningful from his work.

[mwilson70201]

@askalexanythingblog Satan quoted scripture but I wouldn't go to him for the gospel. It is the god of this world who hath blinded the minds of them which believe not. Since Satan appears as an angel of light only to mislead and his ministers as ministers of righteousness who do you think gave Origen the "meanigful grains of truth" you allude to? In fact the "all things" of Acts 3:21 are the promises of God to Israel, read the whole passage! It has nothing to do with universal redemption.

[askalexanythingblog]

@mwilson70201 This conversation is going nowhere. I generally don't respond to comments because they are a waste of time and I thought perhaps we could have an interesting conversation. Your responses have simply reinforced the point that I should have kept my mouth shut. You keep preaching your version of Christianity and I'll keep preaching mine. I wish you the best and I will pray that many people might find the love and forgiveness of Christ in the things you say. It's been fun.

[mwilson70201]

@askalexanythingblog Origen wasn't your average guy. He was in Alexandria which had the most extensive library of the day and was in a cathetical school which would have access to things not readily available to others. His problem wasn't a lack of knowledge, it was an unconverted heart. If a man denies the physical resurrection of Christ he isn't confused, he is lost. Since the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God it is madness to think he is a source of sound doctrine.