Wrestling Roundtable #22 9/28/08 Part 3 - What If?/Time Machine

[MrTvtech9]

I cringed at the thought of Hulk Crow-gan [shudders]

I have a really good one: What if WWE Raw didn't lead into the first season of The Ultimate Fighter? Would UFC be successful today? And what else do you think would happen?

[Sweetguy9009]

@WrestlingRoundtable I totally agree with what Haber said about Bret Hart being known as a WWE guy. Similar to what Jim Ross said on Bret's DVD... When Bret went to WCW he was known as such a WWE guy and he had fourteen years in WWE to build up that rep so when he went to WCW he had no rep and that was the many things that killed his WCW run. Survivor Series 1997 didn't help matters either.

[antsman88]

What if the Montreal Screwjob had never happened?

[redfury0156]

what if the 2010 wrestling roundtable season was over, and you were left watching old but good shows till the new ones are up?

[smoothop1000]

WHAT IF DAVID VON ERICH AND GINO HERNANDEZ HAD LIVED?????

[Sweetguy9009]

@smoothop1000 I have often thought about that seeing the documents about WCCW. Would JCP woul;d have been the top promotion in the NWA?

[smoothop1000]

@Sweetguy9009 Losing the top babyface AND the top heel in tragic circumstances will kill ANY promotion!! Imagine if in the WWE John Cena and let's say CM Punk or Chris Jericho pass away? The WWE would be in big trouble...... I can only imagine how big David and Gino would have been if they were alive today!!

[SolidMike84]

What if Vince McMahon had never been born?

(Not trying to sound like a asshole, I'm just saying, what if...

How would the world of pro-wrestling look today?)

[SSj5Alan]

forget bret hart what if HBK had left WWF/E and went to WCW as the third man since during that time shawn had issues with vince :)

[bigdonniekool1]

what if the nwa had pushed ricky morton and his feud with ric flair like wwf did with shawn michaels

[bigdonniekool1]

what if brian lee came too wwf with kane as able and they were heel bros wit undertaker with a hardcore manager

[fukbilly666]

Chris Harris! clap, clap, clap, clap, clap, clap. Chris Harris! clap X8. 6 more times

[fukbilly666]

Chris Harris rules! See, this is how the panel should be.

[WrestlingRoundtable]

haha! That was good :)

-E, Wrestling Roundtable

[Sweetguy9009]

@WrestlingRoundtable Santamaria you talked about how the arena in Minneapolis was pissed as result of the finish between Hogan and Bockwinkle. Hogan mentions in the AWA DVD how Gagne sold out the arena next door and they watched the event on closed circuit and how Gagne jacked up ticket prices only a few days before... Awful business move by Gagne.

[Sweetguy9009]

@WrestlingRoundtable Here's a good What If... What would happened to WWE, if Shawn Michaels never got injured at Royal Rumble 1998? Sure, Austin would've still won the WWE Title at WM 14. But would we have seen, McMahon vs. Austin? Would HHH become the great semi main eventer in 1998 to eventually become a main eventer a year later? Would Rock have become WWE Champion if Shawn Michaels was still around?

[SSVCloud]

@Sweetguy9009 If Michaels never broke his back, he'd be in the hall of fame. Posthumously.

[jerzeefranky3475]

it wouldve been graham (,"superstar" bliiy) as mcmahn's "guy"...vkm ALWAYS thought 1 of his dads BIGGEST mistakes was/is NOT letting sbg become a face...which the fans (supposedly)wanted him 2 be...from what ive heard/read!!!!!

[MRobert21]

Actually, Kerry Von Erich was the guy McMahon wanted most and McMahon almost had a deal worked out with Fritz to get Kerry to the point that WWF started promoting the Von Erichs on televion, but Fritz reconsidered. McMahon loved Billy Graham, but by 1983 Graham was a physical and mental wreck messed up on drugs doing a crap karate gimmick. McMahon had a list of guys it could have been, but Hogan was the first smart 1 to say yes. If necessary, it could have been Jesse Ventura if Hogan said no.

[WrestlingRoundtable]

This idea that "it could have been anybody", or at you described him "lucky," is ludicrous and imo is solely designed to undermine Hulk Hogan by taking away the credit the deserves. Just my impression. That'd be like me saying the same thing about Austin in 97. The idea that Superfly Snuka, Sgt Slaughter, Kerry Von Erich, Jesse Ventura or anybody else outside of maybe the Macho Man could have been on Carson, SNL, MTV, the Cheerios box, etc. & be the leader of WWF's revolution? I don't see it.

-E

[MrCynic1]

@WrestlingRoundtable I actually think that if it was going to be anybody else it could have been Jesse. They could have played off of his navy seal days and he would have been a REAL American hero who served his country ect ect ect. Can you imagine the mic work that would have gone on between Jesse and Roddy Piper? Those two would have played off of each other like no one else I think.

[TheJohnnyCotts]

If Hogan had stayed in the AWA, Vince would have gotten someone else to build his company around. Vince was going national no matter what, it was just who was going to be on board with him.

Verne Gagne might have kept Hogan, but would he have also been able to keep Bobby Heenan, Jesse Ventura, Mean Gene and Adrian Adonis? Or later on with Curt Hennig, The Rockers and Sherri Martel?

[MRobert21]

Verne never paid any body except himself, Greg, Bockwinkle, and a couple of other oldsters, which is why all his talent left. McMahon was the first guy to figure out merchandising and give wrestlers profit participation, so McMahon got all the talent he wanted. If Verne let Hogan keep all his Japan and T shirt money Hogan would never have left, but AWA still would have gone down because Gagnes had no clue how culture and technology were shifting. McMahon is a genius and Hogan is just lucky.

[cbaldwinjr]

@MRobert21

Lucky implies that McMahon had like two or three other people in mind that he couldn't and had to come back to Hogan. No, Hogan is FORTUNATE. Big difference. But for all of McMahon's forward thinking, Hogan was the bell cow. He altered THREE wrestling organizations in his time...no one else can say that. So this idea that McMahon just plucked him out and w/o him he would've made the WWF larger than life anyway...bullshit. Look at how the WWF struggled after Hogan before Austin/Rock

[HavokkG1]

id love to make some imput but ill have to get back to you, a great topic =D

Great job guys,

[skinwalkerxxx]

If Hogan doesn't leave AWA, aparantly there was a deal in place for the AWA to havew shows on ABC a la Saturday Night's Main Event.

Personaly, I think the WWF would have pushed Superfly Snuka as the top guy. He was already insanely over. Remember not too long after he started to feud with Piper. So have Snuka beat the Sheik. Then he enters a feud with Piper(similar to what happened). And then..

Machoman. Can you imagine a Savage-Snuka feud? I want to see those cage matchs.

[stevestoner13]

They should've pushed Snuka as the top guy at WM VI instead of Warrior. I watch Warrior/Hogan at WM VI the other day & concluded that it was completely bland & horseshit compared to say Andre/Hogan at WM III. Or even Bundy/Hogan at WM II.

[skinwalkerxxx]

Snuka was past his prime by even late 80s standards. Warrior vs Hogan was stellar even if I wasn't a fan of either. It was easily the second biggest titanic clash of all time.

When I said Snuka vs Savage, I meant when Snuka still "had it" around 84 or 85.

[stevestoner13]

I'll agree that Warrior vs. Hogan was the titanic clash of the babyfaces.

But, Andre vs. Hogan was much better. I mean, Andre was already the most known wrestler (other than Flair) out there. Hogan was more over than any guy out there would be. Andre was heel after being the loveable lug face & the clumsy heel for so long. Andre was undefeated for 15 FUCKEN YEARS. McMahon capitalize by making Hogan beat Andre. The story behind Andre/Hogan was one of the best ever & one of McMahon cap feathers.

[Leaffaninalberta]

it WAS originally soposed to be bret hart it's in eric bischoff's book he also said sting was willing to doit so the question ask is what if it was sting?

[DeathAdder83]

I think I am becoming a mark for that musician fella, seems to always bring up good points. Yeah Bret as the leader of the nWo sounds cool now, but Hogan was the foundation. Either way the nWo shouldn't have ran as long as it did. how about What If Kurt Angle ended up going to ECW back in the 90's and blew up there, could have helped ECW out alot.

[redfury0156]

hey gang! just scrolling through some old shows on a soda filled all nighter! got a couple what ifs myself: Would Flair have such venom twards Bret had Bret not have won his first main championship from him? What rating mentally would we have given the WWF Hogan and WWF Hart character matchup if it would have taken place somehwere after WM9? What if Lawrence(sorry if spelling is off im half awake) had never cut his hair? would we be able to tell him appart from our new ROH panelist? hmmmmm

[miSzroMantiQ]

I've got the easiest topic.What matches of

any wrestlemania you wish could've been the main event but it wasn't

[snoopyd80]

What if: Wrestlemania 8 had been Flair vs. Hogan. My thoughts- it would have been inferior to Savage/Flair (one of the classics of all time) and Hogan would have won the belt (again) only to disappear for a year. They got it right.

Also what if: Flair had continued with WWF in 1993, and we had Hart vs. Flair at WM 9? That could have been a classic- instead, we had Yokozuna (and Hogan screwing things up at the end)

[stevestoner13]

I always thought Yokozuna vs. Hart at WM 9 was Yokozuna's best match.

[SolidMike84]

What if Vince had treated "Mr. Perfect" better during his last days in WWE

[stevestoner13]

Then Mr. Perfect would've become World champ somewhere down the line.

[4masterfuls]

hey i gotta topic..... what wrestler past or present that never won the heavyweight title u wish did?

[boykinrd]

What if Shawn Michaels hadn't injured his back in the Casket Match at the 1998 Royal Rumble?

I believe that HBK/Austin still would've happened at WM14 and Austin still would've won.

Hopefully, Vince would've forced HBK to take a hiatusand return at SummerSlam for the big rematch at MSG. (Remember Survivor Series 96? Think of the crowd response!!  Would've been interesting...)

I honestly think that HBK may be bitter that he wasn't TRULY involved in the famed "Attitude Era" of the WWF.

[JerryvonKramer]

What if Dibiase had won the WWF title at WM4 as was planned?

[TehKarmaPolice]

Hogan would have just won it at WM 5 or Summerslam. Savage face turn was inevetible.

[HallNWO]

HEY YO!! OMG these guys have finally gave some credit to Hall & Nash!!!

[TruStory007]

I don't know about booking but I would had bret debut the next night on nitro after the facing micheals clear the ring when they were annoucing bret coming to nwo and micheals challenging to step in a wcw ring and calling him pussy challenging his credibility and burying vince about his product. Than having hall and nash brautaully attack him giving him time b/c bischoff didn't feature him soon b/c he was saving bret for thunder hahahaha but what do you think about that

[thunter254]

Here's a what if. What if vince didn't buy his father's company, we could maybe still have the territories (AWA,NWA,etc.).

[bistroman12]

What if Muhammad Hassan stayed in WWE??

[rclowers]

The NWO needed the Hogan heel turn to get them over. It's sort of like the fans screaming, "We'll hate you all forever for taking our hero and we will hate Hogan even that much more!!!" The whole angle would not have worked without Hogan, period.

[y2ledgend]

NWO would have never made it without Hogan. Cause if Hogan was in WCW during the angle, he would have either been with them or against them. If he was against them, he wouldnt have jobbed to them. Him being with them was why they were so dominant and also why they eventually got old

[slydewinder]

Certainly Hogan made the wwe blitz move faster, but I think it would have eventually

happened anyway. The promoters who ran the NWA

AWA were too busy screwing over each other to have ever worked together.

[Shatter7]

I was in Daytona at bash at the beach when Hogan turned heel. The crowd was crazy, and thristy for blood. I havnt been to many wrestling live shows, but that was the single best ppv event ever. IMO of course.

[CadillacL]

If Hogan hadn't left AWA! IMO,I think we'd have a unification match w/Him & Flair, etc. would've killed WWF.. I'd also say there would've been BIGGER PPV's. Just think if we'd have a weekely show like Raw/Smackdown show & feature a differen territory each week or month. Just my thought.

[NiceVideos11]

The Bret Hart conversation was VERY intriguing. I hope that once they commence they will entertain more Bret Hart discussions.

[jpd632]

What if I hadn't watched this video...

[WrestlingRoundtable]

What if you went & fucked yourself?

-E, Wrestling Roundtable

[ct5]

LOL I was thinking the same thing, WTF did you watch the video for if your gonna post that comment?

[tjwwe]

What if HHH never got imjured in 2001?

What would his role have been in the inVasion?

[helpmedie91111]

What if HHH had forgot his viagra on his first date with Steph????? In new in town.

[Escapist26]

Worth the price of admission to hear Lawrence say "Kayfabe aside"

[RandomMindz]

what if the wwe acutally used the ECW right and actually HAVE hardcore matches on a daily basis? Or at least on every main event????

[DaReelDeal]

Theres no way WWE could ever do ECW right, simply bescause of how tough their schedual is. And having to do a hardcore match around 4or more times a week? It'd take its toll

[okrabay]

i wish Verne had the sense to see what he had with Hogan and if he did wrestling would have stayed regional but still it would have grown tremendously.

[captaintrippsky]

Hogan was great in NWO but it drove me nuts the way he said SWEEET!!! Not near as cool as Hall and Nash

[leconter]

What if Shawn Michaels never got hurt in 98? Would that of affected the Austin/Mcmahon storyline, Highway to Hell, or even The Rock/HHH fued that made them bigger stars?

-Rodney, Wrestling Roundtable

[cannabisboi]

Good one. i reckon if shawn michaels did not get injured in 1998. he would of had a rematch with austin at unforgiven for the title and lose that. then after that he would eventually be in the dx vs nation feud.

[cannabisboi]

I dont think he would of had anything to do with the austin/vince storyline. or highway to hell. i reckon he would of messed up the rock vs triple h feud somehow though. that's a really interesting question u posted bro i always thought what would of happened with shawn if he never got injured in 1998

[leconter]

Thanks man. If HBK wasn't out though do you think DX would've turn face? The whole nation vs. Dx fued was a classic heel faction vs face faction. Who knows if the Outlaws would've joined?

-Rodney, Wrestling Roundtable

[cannabisboi]

No i reckon they would of been tweener's as they were originally. Someone said to me that in shawn's book he revealed that the outlaws were still going to join even if he did not get injured. And also in his book he revaled that him getting injured at that time was really bad for him as they were planning really big thing's for him. i reckon after he got injured he should of been the dx manager or something

[optimus57]

I loved the era when Micheals was off tv after he got injured. After ruining the main event scene for years with his ego, business sky rocketed with Austin and the Rock at the helm and it illustrated how counterproductive hbk and his cliq buddies really were. I remember when hbk threw a tantrum because he got bumped from raw in march 2001, as if he was more important than Vince winning the monday night raw and buying wcw.

[orangekorn]

another great episode !

[WrestlingRoundtable]

Thank you!

-E, Wrestling Roundtable

[LKelley998]

What if the Iron Sheik DID do it in the Pontiac?

[WrestlingRoundtable]

I wanna letchu know, you aske me axecellent, axcellent question my intelligent wressling fahn!

-E, Wrestling Roundtable

[feckyoo2]

Eric is one ugly mofo! Easy to say in hindsight that Gange fucked up, dorks. He was obv. no fool to have built the empire in the first place.

[WrestlingRoundtable]

First of all, 'feckyoo', FUCK you. Second, if Gagne was so smart, how come he didn't give the people what they want? They practically saying "We want to pay you a lot of money to see Hulk Hogan as champion," and he says, "No, we're sticking with old Bockwinkel & you'll like it" You think that's no foolish? Hogan went to someone who would actually promote him and the rest is history. Hindsight, my ass. You didn't need foresight to know it was the smart thing to do.

-E, Wrestling Roundtable

[WWEVIDEOS5]

My big what if is what if the Montreal Screwjob had been reversed and Michaels was gone instead of Bret how would WWE or any Wrestling be affected?

[BIGBarseman23]

thats an interesting 1 cus obv hbk wouldnt have gt injured and ms likely would have gone to wcw, but he would have bought his politics to wcw and made it even more shitty to be in.

[vassilli19910666]

What if

1)Bishoff never fired Austin

2)What if WCW never went out of bisnes

3)What if Vince Russo was never borned!

[jazzyfrolo]

What if Kane beat HHH on RAW during that mask vs. title match? Would Kane still be relevent or creditble?

[WrestlingRoundtable]

Probably a little, but not much. I was there for that match & it would have been great, but Kane's always their backup plan, the guy they put someone with to create the illusion of doing something with that person, to keep them busy. I don't think they've ever looked at him as a torch bearer, so to speak, so yeah, I think it could have helped him for a few months, but after that I see them going back to using him like they always do & falling back on that title win as an excuse when needed

-E

[RantNRavinFection]

1) What if The Rock came back?

2) What if Super Calo became WCW champion?

3) What if Vince McMahon and Bret formed a stable and terrorized the WWF?

[WickedNemesis]

My "What If" is this: What if TNA actually booked their talent right?

[WrestlingRoundtable]

They'd more than likely be in a lot better standing today than they are. I mean, it took them 6 years to finally turn a profit, and that's absurd considering they've made deals with Fox Sports, Spike, Midway for the video game, international TV, etc. If they'd have had quality control over their booking from the beginning, they wouldn't have the stupid name "TNA," and they'd probably have built a bigger audience, built it quicker & overall just had a better product

-E, Wrestling Roundtable

[optimus57]

Thats the upsetting thing about tna, they have the talent, the tv exposure, all these opportunities, no Triple H ruining things, no Vince's ego, no being scared of turning people heel to upset the shareholders etc and they still dont know what to do. They should be capitalising on wwe suckiness with some straightforward classic wrestling storylines reworked for the modern era. But they dont and I dont know why.

[Bknowledge]

My three biggest what ifs are what if Bischoff pushed his mid-card more in WCW, what would've happened to WCW if AOL never merged w/ Time Warner and what if The Invasion storyline actually worked; how different would the WWE be?

[cannabisboi]

thank you for putting this up u guys rule

[WrestlingRoundtable]

Thank you!

-E, Wrestling Roundtable

[ivotherock7]

What if Stone Cold didnt whipe his ass in 2001 whould there be WWE.

[eclipsewoa]

what if sting came to the wwe instead of goldberg,i wonder how they would have used him, sting is a legend and would of had to had the title for a while, think of the great matches they could of had sting in

[miramsfan]

Here is my what if scenario. If Bret Hart had never left WWF and the screwjob never happened, would Owen Hart still be alive?

[WrestlingRoundtable]

Bret always contends that if he were still in the WWF in 1999, presumably in an agent capacity if not still wrestling, that he'd have talked Owen out of doing the stunt. It's certainly possible.

-E, Wrestling Roundtable

[passiondiva05]

Of course I know Hogan's got an ego. Duh. It's common knowledge. I just pointed out (though not necessarily to the 'T') that two egos like Hogan and Hart would not have worked well together in the same group. And I know Hogan had creative control. I read Bishoff's book among others. And I know that things would be a whole lot different if things had not happened. It is what it is.

[MrKing21]

Well of course not. After Hogan refusing to drop the belt to Bret at SummerSlam 1993 of course they would have had some bad blood still between them 3 years later.

I think if Bret did go to WCW in 1996 instead of putting him with Hall and Nash, they should have put Bret in the 4 Horsemen with Flair, Anderson, and Benoit. I think he would have been a better choice than Mongo McMichael.

[werdorino]

thing is flair and bret personal issues aside never could really light it up in the same ring

[MrKing21]

Have any examples?

[werdorino]

their matches in the early 90s were never any good, they couldn't agree on a style (bret described flair as "non stop non psychology" while flair detested hart's methodical approach) just look at their match from souled out 98, even when they're close to the same page its not that great

[MrKing21]

So what does that have anything to do with them being in the 4 Horsemen TOGETHER? If Bret were in the 4 Horsemen he wouldn't be having matches against Flair. If anything Flair would have been Bret's tag partner in matches.

[werdorino]

and you don't think that would make those matches suffer at all??

[MrKing21]

Nope.

[MrKing21]

What if Hogan had went along with Jesse Ventura and tried to unionize the WWF wrestlers in the 80's at the height of Hulkamania?

Would McMahon's biggest superstar of all time refusing to work without a wrestiling union, force McMahon to agree to let the wrestlers unionize? If the wrestlers had a union back in the 80's and 90's would guys like Hennig, Rude, Davey Boy, Owen, Pillman, and countless others still be alive today?

Would the wrestlers in NWA/WCW and ECW have also unionized?

[CadillacL]

If Vern had let Hogan win the AWA title, MAYBE, we wouldn't be stuck w/Vince & "Sports Entertainmen". There's also the possibility of maybe one World Champ, one World Tag, One US, etc. IMO.

[B44501xRacerEX]

All the promotions were here today even WCCW,

and all the Von Erichs were still alive.

The monday night wars could have been 4-5 promotions fighting for that #1 spot on TV.

Seriuosly Id go nuts over which one to watch.

Would TNA even exist today?

[WrestlingRoundtable]

TNA would definitely not exist. It's doubtful that even if all those promotions (AWA, WCCW, USWA even, etc.) existed that they'd be competing on Monday Nights because, as we saw with Spike/TNN when they were working with WWF, nobody wants too much wrestling on their own network, so you can imagine that dividing the market even more isn't something other networks would want to do, even if wrestling was hot. But TNA existing depends on WCW going out of business & Jarrett being unemployed

-E

[Himfanmike]

this is kind of a futureistic what if, but what if The Honky Tonk Man, came back a day before Santino beat his record and he took the belt from santino, thus ruining his chances of beating honky's record, I think it would be pretty funny since Santino is pretty much a comical character anyway.

[WrestlingRoundtable]

You SUCK man, ha, I proposed that very idea like a week before you posted this! That's cool though, it's a great idea, isn't it? That being said, doesn't it suck they're already bringing him in? What a fucking waste! He shouldn't even be a choice for Cyber Sunday. Unless they have Haas come out as him(if he's picked) as a swerve. Because they really should be waiting another year or however many weeks left there is to be doing that. No patience!

-E, Wrestling Roundtable

[eli24128]

Idk if Owen wouldve won the belt because the Blue Blazer character was sorta a punishment of him not wanting to do 'attitude' stuff. What if Lesnar never left WWE? I think that is a what if that will grow in time due in large part to his success in UFC. I think he'd still be a maineventer but who knows, maybe HHH wouldve got sick of him.

On a side note, I was wondering what you guys thought of the shoot promos on TNA this week involving Jarrett and Angle. I thought they were great.

[WrestlingRoundtable]

If Lesnar never left is interesting. On one hand, he was a "real" athlete, and the combination of guys like him, Angle, Benjamin, etc. SHOULD have been at the forefront of a new style of wrestling WWE should have installed, but we know that didn't happen. Hell, they wanted him to feud with Undertaker AGAIN, for the THIRD TIME! He'd definitely still be a main eventer though, you're right. As for the Jarrett/Angle stuff, it was pretty good. Some flaws, but still good at first.

-E

[MIMIOMAR]

Whats with Erics RVD haircut???

[WrestlingRoundtable]

Knock it off, Omar!

-E, Wrestling Roundtable

[Nic1700]

You guys should try to become a Youtube partner, just for the sake of getting to have more than ten minute videos.

Another good what if I have often thought about is...

What if Ultimate Warrior successfully took Hogans megastar spot after WM 6?

Think about Hogan's legacy, nWo, Warrior's legacy, what aquisitions or stars WCW would have had to make to compete with WWF, who else could have held the titles for that time.

[WrestlingRoundtable]

We are a YouTube partner, but we like our 10 minute segments. Besides, until I'm paid to edit more & longer segments, it's gonna stay that way, ha. Anyway, even if Warrior was a "success," the steroid allegations were still on their way around 91, so in all likelihood he'd have been on his way out in a couple years anyway. I don't see it making that much of a difference to history as we know it.

-E, Wrestling Roundtable

[WrestlingRoundtable]

Actually, we'll keep sharing our GAY opinion with all our fans, thank you very much. You, on the other hand, no one will give a shit about :) We win!

-E, Wrestling Roundtable

[rellik4life]

what if owen was still alive, i wonder if he would have ever become champion? I always been an owen hart fan, I even hear that the game gimmmick that triple h has was really for owen.

[WrestlingRoundtable]

Owen never, EVER would have become champion, heh. I don't know where you heard this "The Game was supposed to be Owen Hart" stuff, sounds like some kid just made that up so I'm not even thinking about it twice, but regardless, the WWF always fucked around with Owen Hart, so even if he lived, he probably would have wrestled a few more years & retired. I couldn't see him still in wrestling now.

-E, Wrestling Roundtable

[ECWHavoc]

What if ECW never went bankrupt.I think they would have gone to the top

[WrestlingRoundtable]

Based on what? Even if ECW was still in business, 'going to the top' means trampling WWE, a multi-million $ company w/ millions of followers & international television. And you really think ECW could overcome that? This is where the ECW love gets way out of hand ; it's just not realistic. ECW would have needed a Panda Energy-like money backer at the VERY LEAST 1st, which they didn't have. None of the expansion ECW tried between 99 & 00(magazines, video games, etc.) helped the company either.

-E

[ICEGOD2]

What if WCW had wom the Monday Night Wars? Not that is a what if.

[WrestlingRoundtable]

Yes it is, heh. Such a big one that's it's almost incomprehensible! WWE/F has been such an institution in wrestling for so long(all of our lifetimes, for example) that a world without it is hard to picture, as close as it may have come to happening in 1996, which is the only time frame for this possibility to have happened. If WCW had put the WWF out of business in 96, one would assume it would have been used as part of the nWo storyline(i.e. WWF invading). Imagine that!

-E

[OrionBannix]

good stuff guys. Personally i don't think brett as the front man would have been good because the NWO needed a mic guy that wouldnt have been over shadowed by nash and hall, as simplistic and quick as hall's mic work was i still see it as better than bretts dry promo's. I don't think wwe would be much different either if Austin hadnt broke his neck. they probably would have claimed it to give him a vacation anyways.

[WrestlingRoundtable]

Firstly, thanks! Secondly, I gotta disagree with a couple of points ; One, Bret's promos may have been 'dry' as a face, but when he had the great heel run of 97 he was really great. Whether that could have translated to a 1996 nWo-leader angle, who knows, but I think his weak 98 work shows isn't a good indicator either since he wasn't motivated due to incoherent angles. As for Austin, I think it's entirely a stylistic change. Maybe the "wrestling" would be a lot better?

-E, Wrestling Roundtable

[RawIsJameson]

there will be a crossface this sunday.

[reh629]

if anyone has a right to use the crossface, you would think it would be jericho.

[reh629]

hall and nash didnt really get along with bret so the hart nwo would have died quickly and it did in 2000 when they tried it.

[69RandySavageTV]

Actually Kevin Nash really likes Bret Hart he says so on his shoot interview.

[reh629]

they like him but they are too care free. bret always had the reputation of taking himself and the industry way too seriously.

i agree that if it wasnt for bret austin would NOT have been as big as he was. Their feud was one of the best of all time. bret kept beating austin over and over again. yet each encounter was monumental.

[danandli]

oooooooooooooohhhhhhhhh machmoud!!!!!!!!!

[miggy25]

the NWO definately needed the 'Hogan heel turn' angle to have the huge impact that it did...Bret joining them would've been big too, but u guys were correct that he would've been overshadowed by Hall and Nash more than Hogan could've been...i had forgotten just how many stars Verne Gagne's AWA had in the 80's that they lost to the WWF...if Verne and co. had known how to handle the talent they had, the AWA never would've ended up folding in 1992

[ToneyStackz]

How bout this as a what if: WHAT IF instead of another watered down DX reunion on RAW last week, the WWE brought back Nash (not sure on his TNA contract situation) or Sid (wonder how he did in those sept tryouts)as HBK's partner. I really wanted SIDs music to play, the place wouldve exploded. Most fans didn't remember the 3 powerbombs b4 they put it up on the Web site a few days ago. A quick heel turn at No mercy for Sid wouldve been classic.

[BIGBarseman23]

i know how you feel i was hoping 4 sid so much, i agree the place would have went NUTS! Now that would have been historic!

[ToneyStackz]

Yea it would have worked especially if HBK would have just left out the whole "someone that likes me" line. They could have bought Sid in for the tag match and had a quick heel turn. Therefore, the HBK/Jericho fued coul have ended on a good note and also establih them in different fueds. The "kill two birds with one Sid" way of thinking lol.

[tommo1313]

awesome discussion

[WrestlingRoundtable]

Thanks!

-E, Wrestling Roundtable

[NoBrianNoGain]

Everytime I watch one of these vids I gain a new favourite topic - thanks guys! I still think you're a way off DVD (cue angry Eric) but at what you do you guys are the best of your kind...

[WrestlingRoundtable]

Thanks, but I'm still trying to figure out the DVD comment.

-E, Wrestling Roundtable

[passiondiva05]

You guys rock! Keep em coming! You guys give me lots of food for thought :D I wish you guys would hang around the WWE Fan Nation forums. Maybe you could teach the so called know it alls a thing or two about wrestling and it's history.

[gamingcheating]

Know it all's?... Maybe True fans know it all unlike you marks

[passiondiva05]

Excuse me but I KNOW my wrestling. In fact, I KNOW I could sit down with some of the best and talk because unlike some of the simpleminded noobs that hang out in the fan nation forums, I actually know my shit. Plus, I have been watching for over 15 years which makes me qualified. Do you really wanna go there with me? Pick your opponent more carefully next time. Oh and judging by the Cena background I'm sure you're not even in my league or worth my time.

[gamingcheating]

Dude Stereotyping does not help!

[gamingcheating]

Really. Maybe you been watching for 3 years. Dumbass

[passiondiva05]

I also agree with what was said about Bret. The WCW fans were more loyal than WWE fans. I think Bret wasn't ready to change with the direction the fans were pulling the WWE so WCW was the better place for him. If Bret kept the same old mundane attitude then he would have been left in the dust. People like Shawn and Hunter changed with the times which is why they are still around. As for Hogan...well...he's Hogan. He can do what he wants b/c he's Immortal and blah blah blah

[MegaRed124x]

If Stone Cold didn't suffer his neck injury? He'd probably be wrestling until WM XIX where he'd probably take time off. Even if he didn't have a neck injury, he's still getting old and probably would get tired of wrestling. Granted he's in "top physical shape" (according to JR's blog), I'm sure you can only wrestle like he does for so long.

[illmatikapps]

Besides that Austin had bad knees, Austin probably would still the knee problems throughout his career after 97 and probably be working either a Michaels/Undertaker style schedule or would have still retired after WM XIX.

[passiondiva05]

Bret Hart's ego was too big for him to even consider being part of the NWO. I could see it falling apart. Hogan worked well with Hall and Nash because they didn't seem to care about being in Hogan's shadow. I'll have to disagree with the 'lack of chemistry'. They might not have had what DX had but they worked well together for a while.

[MrKing21]

Yeah because Hulk Hogan doesn't have an ego.

Hall and Nash had no choice but to be in Hogan's shadow. Hogan had creative control in his contract and he wasn't going to take a backseat to Hall and Nash. If there was no Hulkster there would have been no Razor or Diesel later, and Terry Bollea knew that.

If WCW would have given Bret his own faction with Neidhart, Benoit, and Jericho ("nWo Canada" or some shit like that) when Bret did come in 1997 it might've worked better for Bret in WCW.