Bullet train is a Bad Idea because this Project will cost 45 billions dollars & the state is in a Budget deficit of 65 billion. & they cant take care of the states Disabled Hand cap people. Governor Arnold is for the High speed rail. ( IN HOME SUPPORT) GOV Arnold is abusing the Elderly & Handy cap people. you will have to Worry about your mother & Father when they get old because they wont be provided for. Gov Arnold is like taking baseball bat & beating your kids & Old people
I also feel the population growth estimates are over exaggerated. The fiscal problems and fundamental anti business policies are causing a major slow down in growth both population and business. If the people and legislature don't wake up and address these problems, California may see a population stagnation or even decline. Also the global warming emphasis is dubious. Scientist say whatever gets them grant money, in the 70's it was the coming ice age, now it's global warming.
This plan does not take into consideration the typical love affair Californian's have with their car. If you can't get them out of the car and onto the train, it will fail. Then after spending all that money on the infrastruture, they will be forced to dump more tax money into the failing system. The only reason it works in europe is due to the culture of train ridership that already exists there. Europeans ride trains because of high taxes on personal transportation and gasoline.
(part 4 of 4)....As for Border Patrol, they have to cover 2000 land miles to the south, and an additional 5500 miles (incl. Alaska) to the north. (This is NOT just a 'Mexico/Mexican thing'.) They are VASTLY understaffed and far underfunded. They do the very best they can, just ask the agent who was gunned down dead a few days ago while doing his duty.
So, perhaps you can reread 'gofindjeff' again, and then remember: Those that cannot refute the true point of the message, nitpick the details.
I'm not nitpicking anything, before the 80's the US would recruit Mexicans in Mexico to work . Railroads, fruit picking, ect. Work that into your logic, and look it up if you don't believe it. For a place who is the leading country, you mean to tell me they cant secure the border? C'mon...They're underfunded for reason whether you like or not. Illegal immigrants are productive and help the economy. Last response.
YES, these HARD working Mexicans were Migrant Workers. They were given the opportunity to come up north for 6 months out of the year to earn wages far above those available in their hometowns to support their families. BUT, that was (A) legal (B) temporary immigration (C) a win/win for everybody & (D) before ILLEGALS were given welfare and the such for living here instead of Mexico. (And yes, our politicians have sold us out to buy future votes come next Amnesty.) Thanks for the debate.
I think chingonm1, that the nitpicking that FarOvertaxed was refering to seems to be that;
GoFindJeff was pointing out first, how the California state congress had screwed up their budget so bad that future bonds to cover this train are now going to be at really high intrest rates to pay back (if they can sell them at all). And also, looks like he wanted state funds (our taxes) to benifit California citizens and LEGAL immigrants. Those following the rules should not be punished with no rail.
(part 3)...Try working this logic into your thought: Over the past 200+ years, who did the work 'Americans won't do' ...before the late 80's, when the tsunami of illegals came to try and rob my family of an income? Answer: AMERICANS DID (and still do)!! I come home weekly with dirty, bruised, scabbed hands and arms as direct proof. So put a cork in it!
Never mind now. It's not going to happen since California is on the very edge of Bankruptcy. Because CA's congress didn't pass a proper budget, the state's credit rating will be lowered to Junk-Bond status...i.e. NO way of ever funding this project! The 'good' news is they'll STILL find a way to pay for welfare, section8 housing, food stamps, child care, college aid, pre-K to 12 schooling, breakfast-lunch programs, prison housing, etc. etc. etc. for the 16+ MILLION ILLEGAL aliens in our state.
Those 16 million also contribute with billions to US economy. 7 billion a year alone just to the Social Security department. Not to mention they're willing to work for shit pay doing back breaking labor. Labor you yankees don't want to do. There's a reason why the border patrol look the other way.
Listen up chingonm1: Yes, there are some Illegals who do contribute, but it does NOT even come laughingly close to offsetting what's taken out of the system in benefits. And that only applies to those who are using a stolen SS#, instead of being paid cash under the table. If so, they are not stupid, and claim '9' on their deductions. Thus no taxes are paid aside from SS/FCIA, and those S.S. contributions from this group do not total 7B (I looked it up). Much of the money they earn is wired...
(part 2)....back to Mexico or China or Pakistan or Russia, or etc. and is lost from our domestic economy. They can keep overhead down by living 10, 20, or more people to a house and taking government handouts. Meanwhile, I work in construction. (Working a job you insultingly said Yanks dont do.) I actually work much HARDER and FASTER than them, because I have to produce twice as much as an illegal who is willing to work for half the pay, just so I can keep my job.....
S.S is only one of the many contributions they make. They pay taxes when they purchase products, they create a whole new product market for companies to benefit from.They work in much more harsh jobs than construction.How many Caucasians have you seen picking strawberries?the benefits continue.You want to complain about a vacant job market, complain to your gov't for outsourcing work. Again, there's a reason why the border is not protected.
chingonm1, I grew up on a farm back in Hastings, Nebraska. Perhaps you can watch a T.V. program called Dirty Jobs with Mike Rowe. You'll see a whole lot of Americans doing those jobs you claim they won't do. Also, isn't the number 2 income to Mexico all the money wired in from it's citizens here? (oil export is no.1) All that money leaving the US market can't be good. Besides, Mexicans arn't the only illegals (See how many Chinese, Vietnamese, + Korean IA live in just LA & Orange countys.)
Do you know the train will be installed or in the USA are infact French TGV, America has asked France to help you create a high-speed train, because trains U.S. does not exceed 134km / h french trains going 300km / h, these high-speed train in the USA are controlled by the SNCF (French rail company), as otherwise even the first world power, needs other countries.
No. The opposite. People need to reach the High speed rail stations. So that they will use slower local Amtrak trains or public transit. This will cause a boom for Amtrak Cal.
This is what I have witnessed in Germany in the last 14 years.
The 1 Hour PBS TV Program "NOVA", highlighted the plan to bring Bullet Trains to California.
In the program, a representaive from JR Rail Japan wanted to bring Bullet Trains to California:
"Tracking The Supertrains
While America's passenger-train service deteriorates, trains in Japan and Europe are speeding ahead at over 150 miles per hour. NOVA reports that the super-fast trains are finally coming to America.
Yeah! European ones are fast, but they cannot resist earth quakes. But, Japanese ones are build for Japanese and Japanese are generally not tall! They might be smaller than European ones :-(
I'm not quite sure how any train can be said to 'resist earth quakes'. And there is plenty of height on the Shinsakensens, been on them myself. Not a problem.
Depends on the series of Shinkansen (the windows on the 400 series weren't so bad). The windows on the Thalys PBA aren't actually that big. Some of the biggest windows in High Speed Trains are actually on the Intercity 125 sets in Britain, strangely enough. Although they've messed up the seating pattern, the advantage is less present these days to say the least.
The windows would be an easy change, nothing fundamental if they were desired to be bigger. Look at the British Rail Class 395, its basically a Shinkansen built by Hitatchi but modified to British specifications for use around London and High Speed One. Larger windows, better placement of doors ect. And we use faster but slower accelerating TGV-derived Eurostars for the long haul international runs to Europe. Good combo :)
China also bought Shinkansen. Why can't America have both? TGV trains should be used in the Northeast, not in California, where earthquakes are almost as common as in Japan.
Vansboi, I agree that it would be a good investment for the future of California. Unfortunately, we don't have anything to invest. That's the basic reason I'm opposed to it.
The Acela Express' top speeds are around 125-150mph, and they actually travel at an average of 60-80mph on regular trips (depending on the sharpness of the curves), meaning that the Acela doesn't qualify as a high-speed line. It's okay though, since the northeast can brag the most trains and train usage in the country.
I think that whenever this thing is built, it will help not only the economy, gas prices, carbon emissions, etc., but also it with giving the USA its first, REAL high-speed line.
The Union pacific Railroad just turned down this plan to let them use part of they're right of way. The plan will be set back 5 more years, as it has already been going on for 5-6yrs.
Also, if the bond is approved in November by voters, this is expected to take a decade to be fully constructed? Why so long? When Spain built its Alta Velocidad Espanola, it constructed the 471 km (~295 mi) from Madrid to Sevilla in just two and a half years. Granted there's some challenging terrain (as there was in Spain), but the major portion of track is through the central valley. That should take a few months, tops.
Rather than spend five times more for airport upgradation to handle the same traffic? Sure, I (a Californian taxpayer) would love to pay for high speed rail!
OK. Are you aware that CA has almost no money? When you have no money, you don't talk about how to spend the money you don't have. You drastically decrease your spending. California should get its spending under control before working on a $30 or $40 billion project. Don't you think so?
But the money will be spent, that's the thing. California cannot afford to halt airport upgradation over the next 12 years or road building. For example, CA could either spend some $60 billion on airports and roads to meet increased demand or spend half that amount on a rail system to meet the same demand. It's not as if we don't spend on this, we won't have to spend on anything. Either that or we tell people and businesses to stop moving into California and halt GDP growth. Your choice ...
I will doubt that the train will significantly take stress off of roads and airports. The train would mainly remove traffic from I-5. We would still have to spend a lot of money expanding freeways in LA and in the Bay Area.
we need it today yo govenor aronld stole the money
with his veto blue veto pin. that voters voted for tranpotaion bond and hedevirted money robed peter to pay paul. call the democratic state asymbly re call aronld and put gray davis back. arnold lied to the voters . california needs highspeed rail
I find it hilarious people in the US complain about undocumented workers but yet are too lazy and fat to do labor jobs.
skabron7 2 years ago
Bullet train is a Bad Idea because this Project will cost 45 billions dollars & the state is in a Budget deficit of 65 billion. & they cant take care of the states Disabled Hand cap people. Governor Arnold is for the High speed rail. ( IN HOME SUPPORT) GOV Arnold is abusing the Elderly & Handy cap people. you will have to Worry about your mother & Father when they get old because they wont be provided for. Gov Arnold is like taking baseball bat & beating your kids & Old people
camboy1132 2 years ago
We can't even get money for child care, municipal projects or student funding, how the Hell are we ever going to get anything like this?
estonianva 2 years ago
I also feel the population growth estimates are over exaggerated. The fiscal problems and fundamental anti business policies are causing a major slow down in growth both population and business. If the people and legislature don't wake up and address these problems, California may see a population stagnation or even decline. Also the global warming emphasis is dubious. Scientist say whatever gets them grant money, in the 70's it was the coming ice age, now it's global warming.
derfman1963 2 years ago
This plan does not take into consideration the typical love affair Californian's have with their car. If you can't get them out of the car and onto the train, it will fail. Then after spending all that money on the infrastruture, they will be forced to dump more tax money into the failing system. The only reason it works in europe is due to the culture of train ridership that already exists there. Europeans ride trains because of high taxes on personal transportation and gasoline.
derfman1963 2 years ago
(part 4 of 4)....As for Border Patrol, they have to cover 2000 land miles to the south, and an additional 5500 miles (incl. Alaska) to the north. (This is NOT just a 'Mexico/Mexican thing'.) They are VASTLY understaffed and far underfunded. They do the very best they can, just ask the agent who was gunned down dead a few days ago while doing his duty.
So, perhaps you can reread 'gofindjeff' again, and then remember: Those that cannot refute the true point of the message, nitpick the details.
FarOvertaxed 2 years ago
I'm not nitpicking anything, before the 80's the US would recruit Mexicans in Mexico to work . Railroads, fruit picking, ect. Work that into your logic, and look it up if you don't believe it. For a place who is the leading country, you mean to tell me they cant secure the border? C'mon...They're underfunded for reason whether you like or not. Illegal immigrants are productive and help the economy. Last response.
chingonm1 2 years ago 4
YES, these HARD working Mexicans were Migrant Workers. They were given the opportunity to come up north for 6 months out of the year to earn wages far above those available in their hometowns to support their families. BUT, that was (A) legal (B) temporary immigration (C) a win/win for everybody & (D) before ILLEGALS were given welfare and the such for living here instead of Mexico. (And yes, our politicians have sold us out to buy future votes come next Amnesty.) Thanks for the debate.
FarOvertaxed 2 years ago
I think chingonm1, that the nitpicking that FarOvertaxed was refering to seems to be that;
GoFindJeff was pointing out first, how the California state congress had screwed up their budget so bad that future bonds to cover this train are now going to be at really high intrest rates to pay back (if they can sell them at all). And also, looks like he wanted state funds (our taxes) to benifit California citizens and LEGAL immigrants. Those following the rules should not be punished with no rail.
aaaaaaandweregone 2 years ago
(part 3)...Try working this logic into your thought: Over the past 200+ years, who did the work 'Americans won't do' ...before the late 80's, when the tsunami of illegals came to try and rob my family of an income? Answer: AMERICANS DID (and still do)!! I come home weekly with dirty, bruised, scabbed hands and arms as direct proof. So put a cork in it!
FarOvertaxed 2 years ago
Never mind now. It's not going to happen since California is on the very edge of Bankruptcy. Because CA's congress didn't pass a proper budget, the state's credit rating will be lowered to Junk-Bond status...i.e. NO way of ever funding this project! The 'good' news is they'll STILL find a way to pay for welfare, section8 housing, food stamps, child care, college aid, pre-K to 12 schooling, breakfast-lunch programs, prison housing, etc. etc. etc. for the 16+ MILLION ILLEGAL aliens in our state.
gofindjeff 2 years ago 7
Those 16 million also contribute with billions to US economy. 7 billion a year alone just to the Social Security department. Not to mention they're willing to work for shit pay doing back breaking labor. Labor you yankees don't want to do. There's a reason why the border patrol look the other way.
chingonm1 2 years ago 4
Listen up chingonm1: Yes, there are some Illegals who do contribute, but it does NOT even come laughingly close to offsetting what's taken out of the system in benefits. And that only applies to those who are using a stolen SS#, instead of being paid cash under the table. If so, they are not stupid, and claim '9' on their deductions. Thus no taxes are paid aside from SS/FCIA, and those S.S. contributions from this group do not total 7B (I looked it up). Much of the money they earn is wired...
FarOvertaxed 2 years ago
(part 2)....back to Mexico or China or Pakistan or Russia, or etc. and is lost from our domestic economy. They can keep overhead down by living 10, 20, or more people to a house and taking government handouts. Meanwhile, I work in construction. (Working a job you insultingly said Yanks dont do.) I actually work much HARDER and FASTER than them, because I have to produce twice as much as an illegal who is willing to work for half the pay, just so I can keep my job.....
FarOvertaxed 2 years ago
S.S is only one of the many contributions they make. They pay taxes when they purchase products, they create a whole new product market for companies to benefit from.They work in much more harsh jobs than construction.How many Caucasians have you seen picking strawberries?the benefits continue.You want to complain about a vacant job market, complain to your gov't for outsourcing work. Again, there's a reason why the border is not protected.
chingonm1 2 years ago 3
chingonm1, I grew up on a farm back in Hastings, Nebraska. Perhaps you can watch a T.V. program called Dirty Jobs with Mike Rowe. You'll see a whole lot of Americans doing those jobs you claim they won't do. Also, isn't the number 2 income to Mexico all the money wired in from it's citizens here? (oil export is no.1) All that money leaving the US market can't be good. Besides, Mexicans arn't the only illegals (See how many Chinese, Vietnamese, + Korean IA live in just LA & Orange countys.)
aaaaaaandweregone 2 years ago
Pleasse, buy shinkansen from Japan, not TGV. Shinkansen is more safer than TGV, because Shinkansen proud of its very high earthquake-proof safety.
Aobasakura 2 years ago 2
Do you know the train will be installed or in the USA are infact French TGV, America has asked France to help you create a high-speed train, because trains U.S. does not exceed 134km / h french trains going 300km / h, these high-speed train in the USA are controlled by the SNCF (French rail company), as otherwise even the first world power, needs other countries.
picarafilm56 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Talk is cheap. It will be year 3010 before anything like this gets built in this Country!
glb360 2 years ago
How much will this cost?
PokefanDP 2 years ago
this will be so cool
pjm5678 2 years ago
Will Amtrak End ?
sinchydog 3 years ago
Would this mean an end to Amtrak in California?
cgibby7QF 3 years ago 2
No.
Spokker 3 years ago
i dont think so.
pjm5678 2 years ago
No. The opposite. People need to reach the High speed rail stations. So that they will use slower local Amtrak trains or public transit. This will cause a boom for Amtrak Cal.
This is what I have witnessed in Germany in the last 14 years.
TrickyEmu 2 years ago
Comment removed
sideslide23 2 years ago
CAL should adopt Japanese HighSpeedTrain System. It has strong advantage in the seismic zone. It is a vital factor.
aoimozart 3 years ago 4
The 1 Hour PBS TV Program "NOVA", highlighted the plan to bring Bullet Trains to California.
In the program, a representaive from JR Rail Japan wanted to bring Bullet Trains to California:
"Tracking The Supertrains
While America's passenger-train service deteriorates, trains in Japan and Europe are speeding ahead at over 150 miles per hour. NOVA reports that the super-fast trains are finally coming to America.
Original broadcast date: 12/14/82
Topic: technology/engineering"
Modeltrainguy 3 years ago
Yes, yor're right. :D
scyhk 3 years ago
Yeah! European ones are fast, but they cannot resist earth quakes. But, Japanese ones are build for Japanese and Japanese are generally not tall! They might be smaller than European ones :-(
TrickyEmu 2 years ago
I'm not quite sure how any train can be said to 'resist earth quakes'. And there is plenty of height on the Shinsakensens, been on them myself. Not a problem.
s2k997 2 years ago
What about the windows in Shinkansen. I think they are smaller than in European trains such as Thalys :-(
TrickyEmu 2 years ago
Depends on the series of Shinkansen (the windows on the 400 series weren't so bad). The windows on the Thalys PBA aren't actually that big. Some of the biggest windows in High Speed Trains are actually on the Intercity 125 sets in Britain, strangely enough. Although they've messed up the seating pattern, the advantage is less present these days to say the least.
s2k997 2 years ago
The windows would be an easy change, nothing fundamental if they were desired to be bigger. Look at the British Rail Class 395, its basically a Shinkansen built by Hitatchi but modified to British specifications for use around London and High Speed One. Larger windows, better placement of doors ect. And we use faster but slower accelerating TGV-derived Eurostars for the long haul international runs to Europe. Good combo :)
s2k997 2 years ago
USA is doing like China, copying our well known TGV 354mph(France ). Just buy it guys ;) Not that I don't like the US, LONG LIVE TO YOU !
Behemeur 3 years ago 3
China also bought Shinkansen. Why can't America have both? TGV trains should be used in the Northeast, not in California, where earthquakes are almost as common as in Japan.
yangj08 2 years ago
Shinkansen are comming.
sideslide23 2 years ago
Vansboi, I agree that it would be a good investment for the future of California. Unfortunately, we don't have anything to invest. That's the basic reason I'm opposed to it.
JeffreyBeanJr 3 years ago
The BEST part to prove the trains will not pollute? Notice at 2:17 the Wind Turbines?
I'll bet THAT'S the power supply for these trains. Wind Power!
No More Oil Dependency!
How COOL is that? ^__^
Modeltrainguy 3 years ago 4
unfortunately the high-speed train in US are only virtual like the one in the video...
SoundAssembler 3 years ago
The Acela Express' top speeds are around 125-150mph, and they actually travel at an average of 60-80mph on regular trips (depending on the sharpness of the curves), meaning that the Acela doesn't qualify as a high-speed line. It's okay though, since the northeast can brag the most trains and train usage in the country.
I think that whenever this thing is built, it will help not only the economy, gas prices, carbon emissions, etc., but also it with giving the USA its first, REAL high-speed line.
gavrieltal 3 years ago
The Union pacific Railroad just turned down this plan to let them use part of they're right of way. The plan will be set back 5 more years, as it has already been going on for 5-6yrs.
SF3751 3 years ago
Get educated about High Speed Rail! Visit one of the many blogs at: cahsr(dot)blogspot(dot)com
DaaYay 3 years ago 2
Can't wait! I'll have to though lol
Eilasmin1 3 years ago 2
Also, if the bond is approved in November by voters, this is expected to take a decade to be fully constructed? Why so long? When Spain built its Alta Velocidad Espanola, it constructed the 471 km (~295 mi) from Madrid to Sevilla in just two and a half years. Granted there's some challenging terrain (as there was in Spain), but the major portion of track is through the central valley. That should take a few months, tops.
vthuppil 3 years ago 2
Vansboi, and can we pay for it tomorrow?
JeffreyBeanJr 3 years ago
this will be as awesome as amtrak im sure
rogeliokk 3 years ago
And very expensive. Would you like to help pay for it?
JeffreyBeanJr 3 years ago
Rather than spend five times more for airport upgradation to handle the same traffic? Sure, I (a Californian taxpayer) would love to pay for high speed rail!
vthuppil 3 years ago
OK. Are you aware that CA has almost no money? When you have no money, you don't talk about how to spend the money you don't have. You drastically decrease your spending. California should get its spending under control before working on a $30 or $40 billion project. Don't you think so?
JeffreyBeanJr 3 years ago
But the money will be spent, that's the thing. California cannot afford to halt airport upgradation over the next 12 years or road building. For example, CA could either spend some $60 billion on airports and roads to meet increased demand or spend half that amount on a rail system to meet the same demand. It's not as if we don't spend on this, we won't have to spend on anything. Either that or we tell people and businesses to stop moving into California and halt GDP growth. Your choice ...
vthuppil 3 years ago 2
I will doubt that the train will significantly take stress off of roads and airports. The train would mainly remove traffic from I-5. We would still have to spend a lot of money expanding freeways in LA and in the Bay Area.
JeffreyBeanJr 3 years ago
Correction:
cahighspeedrail (dot) ca (dot) gov
Here's Another One:
desertxpress (dot) com
DaaYay 3 years ago
DaaYay 3 years ago
Check out the Cal High Speed Rail BLOG:
cahsr.blogspot. com/
DaaYay 3 years ago
If California can jumpstart America's interstate-highway system, I think they can jumpstart the high-speed rail movement.
bulldawgs50 4 years ago
we need it today yo govenor aronld stole the money
with his veto blue veto pin. that voters voted for tranpotaion bond and hedevirted money robed peter to pay paul. call the democratic state asymbly re call aronld and put gray davis back. arnold lied to the voters . california needs highspeed rail
amtrc 4 years ago