You do know Palistine built next to schools <who does that ,
What about Hamas saying the will 'hunt the jews down'
What about the 850,000 jews who lost there homes , The Gaza strip was a base for 7,000 rocket attacks against schoolyards and townships . what about all the time israel attmpted peace.
What about all the crimes of palisitne's role in the holocaust?
"10:1" it takes an absolute liar to twist a 2001 study by the International Committee of the Red Cross found that the civilian-to-military death ratio in wars fought since the middle of the 20th Century.
The Gaza strip was a base for 7,000 rocket attacks against schoolyards and townships in Israel before the Israelis responded in 2007. During Israel’s airstrikes on Gaza rocket sites there was one civilian death for every 30 terrorists.
@lxAgnosticxl You know I anticipated that someone would pipe up with either some form of holocaust guilt or the old "you dont know what your talking about/ jews have had it so hard they can do whatever they want" argument. As if anyone who brings up the attrocities of israel is some how the one in the wrong. Mainstream media and politics push pro Israel opinions for financial reasons but others are waking up. Israel is far from innocent and is an instigating force.
the second from the bottem is misinformed, We now have video , documented & build plans as evidence that Hams perposly builds next to & in schools to use children as human sheilds yet Israel still kill less civilians than by 3 times as much as any country in history.
Most of the Arabs living in East Jerusalem and the Golan Heights, occupied by Israel since the Six-Day War of 1967, were offered Israeli citizenship, but refused, not wanting to recognize Israeli sovereignty because they might be killed in there own country and most remarkably
poll conducted by Harvard University's Kennedy School of Government found that 77% percent of Israeli Arabs would rather live in Israel than in any other country in the world.
So i don't think you can say racism in Israel, how someone could even get a statistic for that i don' know.
Israeli torture? Amnesty International investigated this and found Israel Never used torture but only ever used certain ineterigation methods when underthreat of terroism, but if this makes you so unhappy why don't you look up what iran or iraq do? why not look up the things palistine & jordon do and have done?
The father of Palestinian nationalism Haj Amin Al-Husseini, planned death camps for the Jews in the Middle East. Haj Amin Al-Husseini, was a devoted follower of Hitler who spent the war in Berlin, recruited an Arab legion to the Nazi cause and planned a “Final Solution” for the Jews of the Arab world. The Muslim Brotherhood, which created Hamas, the government of Gaza translated Mein Kampf into Arabic in the 1930s and called for the destruction of the Jews.
@lxAgnosticxl As a Canadian I have no interest in providing foreign aid to Israel or anyone else. I also have no interest in bombing the middle east and provoking terrorist attacks. Israel should fend for itself.
Also, I suppose Naomi Klein a Jewish activist and Jimmy Carter who both call for a boycott of Israel for its apartheid racism and attrocities just dont know what they are talking about right?
Israel can't fend for its self because America has it on a lesh , when they are attack they still ask permission to defend them selves when amerca said no they didn't do a thing , its nice to know we have a friend like Israel in the middle east.
Israel aparteid this I thought this myth ended years ago, so name 1 thing.
I can give you an endless ist of the crimes of Hamas or Hizzbolah.
@lxAgnosticxl Go out and promote the end of western Israeli ties and all foreign aid to Israel and I will be happy. This is all I want. To not have my country of Canada known as a friend to Israel, then Israel can do what ever it wants.
Again, Jimmy Carter and Naomi Klein have talked about this in recient times go look it up and then tell me you are smarter than they are.
Hamas is irrellevant, they are not out "friends" but Israel is.
I never claimed to be smarter than anyone, You keep giving me these Bullsh*t lies about Israel and clearly didn't check to see if they were true or what others had to say.
So I'm gonna ask one last time please name 1 thing Israel has done wrong? if you don't want to recognise them as a friend to your country you must have some reason, if not your claims are clearly based on crap.
@aristurtle1 Lol Israelis Apartheid? Luckily, the most common lie about Israel is also the biggest lie, it is clear that at some stage you'll see how this ridiculous claims are, by the way if there are Jews who believe that it does not make them less idiots and ignorant, good day (:
@asaf921 look up what former president Jimmy Carter has to say on the apartheid nature of what is going on around Israel where people are being kicked off of their land.
Read what Jewish Canadian activist Naomi Klein has said about Israel's human rights violations or about Israel's use of torture on children and their coverup of this.
Or you can go on pretending Israel has done nothing wrong...
@aristurtle1 Yeah I know what he says and I know he madea lot of money, you look up the definition of apartheid, and what the source of the word, then we can continue the conversation, otherwise it will be he said she said so.
Like I said I'm happy, the most common lie is the biggest, if possible, add also the most easy to prove that this a ridiculous lie preposterous, we continue?
@asaf921 apartheid refers to a segregation and mistreatment of a particular ethnicity or culture within a land where more than one culture exists. In the case of South Africa is was the majority (black) culture that was put down through white government. In Israel, human rights groups and the UN draw the Apartheid comparison because the palestinian population is discriminated against socially (see racism stats) as well as in around the borders where they are kicked off of their land.
@aristurtle1 Excellent, 20 percent of the population of Israel are Arabs from different sectors, there are Arab MKs, there were several Arab ministers, has Arab judges in courts and even a high court judge, there are Arabs who serve in the army (one of the commanders directly, my army was an Arab Druze), all universities have Arab students (at the University of Haifa nearly half the students are Arabs)
@aristurtle1 , there are doctors and patients Arabs and Jews, they have full rights and even affirmative action institutions of learning, they can vote for parliamentary elections, fuck it, they have more rights in Israel than the neighbors in Arab countries. Blacks in South Africa had all this?
@aristurtle1 It's enough to walk the streets of Tel Aviv-Jaffa, Acre, Haifa, etc. to understand that Israel is not apartheid, from the PA side has a law that says anyone selling land or other type of real estate to Jews, his sentencing court is death! It's real apartheid, what do Arab countries to the refugee populations of the "Palestinians" that apartheid by the law discriminates against them.
@asaf921 Again the same pattern: "israel is great, that palestinians are worse". I cant count the number of times I have heard this.
Again you remove the fact that my country of Canada (US also) is basically under the control of pro Israel lobbiests, media and mainstream politicians and Israel can do whatever they want. So long as my country does not have to be a "friend" to Israel.
@aristurtle1 I do not know anything about the internal affairs of Canada, so I do not intervenes not,for better or for worse, to express an opinion on Canada I have to learn a little more depth.And also you should do regarding Israel,that is the decent thing to do,go blindly after propaganda and incitement causes real damage! , you encourage those that incite and eventually leads to people dying as a result of lies spreading ,what I proved you about the"apartheid"is just the tip of the iceberg.
@aristurtle1 I guess you not really care about the truth or make things better,I care because that is my future and the people that matter to me,you have every right to your opinion regarding the relationship of Canada and Israel,or anything your government does it is your business.Just try no to meddle with things you do not understand,or condemn and slander people for no reason,especially if you do not know anything about them,or the circumstances in which they live,you think you can do it?
Let me guess your response will be: a. Palestinians are worse (the "he started it" kindergarden argument" b. Jews have had it bad they can do whatever c. those are lies
@aristurtle1 You did not understand the message I'm trying, to pass, I mention the circumstances and facts to expose lies and half truths are spoken about Israel (mostly completely false). My goal is to achieve real peace (Peace comes from the people and not artificially through government) I know the lies spread about Israel is the root of the problem, when people will understand (slow and sure it's already starting to happen) they have no real reason to hate us, then peace will come
@aristurtle1 I do not know if you are aware that (probably not) Israel pulled by force the settlement, from Gaza in 2005 so that the Palestinians will have the opportunity to evolve in terms of economy and develop the area and also provided funds to the PA (taxpayers Israeli), to achieve peace, rather than develop, they began fire missiles on Israel's southern communities on a daily basis (shooting lasted until today)
@aristurtle1 Attempt to display the security fence as "apartheid wall" baseless propaganda, the nature of the fence defined by Israel's intention is to protect its citizens (I will detail to you a personal a message, why fence was built.) Your contempt, on people's lives, you think it's fucking game?!? ("he started it") kindergarden argument ", when you're reach, hand, for peace (in words and deed, to make concessions to the other side, .
lol, all of those people are against a jewish state? why?well, i guess they never had a holocaust, they always had COUNTRY and ARMY THAT CAN SUPPORT THEM NOT LIKE the JEWS
The holocaust does not give Israel the right to use torture against children and illegally expand kicking people off their land. They are like the nazis of this generation.
Omg! 10 minutes of no actual logic reason why they hate Israel! 10 minutes of mommbling people."amm beacause israel is killing little childdren(BS)." "amm beacuse israel is bad(BS)".
im sorry but your arguments are invalid.
Those "humanitarians" dont support peace or love of any of the things they've said.They simply support the distroction of the jewish state of Israel.
Those people have no actual argument on which i can give a dignified answer.
@EladAmosiProductions in the 1940's, >200-300,000 palestinians were kicked out of their homes-many were killed. Zionists rhetoric to the palestinians were "you will be treated like dogs" and "we have no solution for you" and "the arabs must go" and theodur hurtzel (zionist founder) even said that we should deport the "penless population" out of the land and find work for them elsewhere.I dont' support israel. Israel would have worked if they didn't implement apartheid.And YES IT IS APARTHEID!
@DM5ive9 And you seem to have forgotten why the Jews were driven out of arab countries in 1948. It was as a back lash for Jewish atrocities against Palestinians.
Today Ashkenazim comprise about 80% of all Jews and the majority of these lived in Europe pre1946. These comprise by far the greatest part of those Jews who have migrated to Israel. They had lived in Europe for 1200 years and as such have no claim on Palestine just as I have no claim on an English "Homeland".
I believe these people are not against the jews or judaism but they are against the oppression/ cruelty/ killing of innocent people conducted by The Israeli goverment aka ZIONIST!!
John Voight -- “How have we come to a time when blowing up babies and cutting their throats are an acceptable means to a political goal?...I feel complete contempt for anyone not intelligent enough to see that the media propaganda portraying the Palestinians as victims endangers the state of Israel."
Don't worry, in a few years when the Zionists finally realise that they can never live in peace so long as they oppress the owners of the land, they'll all be wanting to go back home to Europe and elsewhere where they belong.
Actually - palestine is only Gaza area up to Ashdod. No west bank.
This historically has been the case for about 500 years prior to Israel.
Palestians were given a chance for peace when Israel pull all their settlers out of Gaza and GAVE to palestians. So palestians turn around and elect Hamas on the promise to destroy Israel - then launch rockets.
@superhamzah85 Have you ever considered that a strong military has nothing to do with being fascist? Have you seen the brutality of Arabs? Give me one case in Israeli warfare that compares to the brutality of what the Arabs did in Itamar or Ramallah
The IDF prohibit Palestinian farmers from working at their fields close to the settlement and are required to protect them during the olive harvest. However, residents of Itamar and its outposts have been reported harassing local Palestinians, damaging their property and obstructing their access to land, particularly during the olive harvest.
They have reportedly stolen olives, prevented Palestinian farmers from reaching their land, even when accompanied by international activists, shot at farmers picking their olives, or grazing their animals. It is alleged that they have set fire to hundreds of olive trees and thousands of dunam of cultivated land belonging to local Palestinians.
The small village of Yanun, which is flanked by the settlement's outposts, particularly suffers from constant harassment and attacks, which caused the villagers to abandon their village in October 2002 and move to the larger nearby village of Aqraba. In some cases, the alleged violence has resulted in death. Among the victims are Farid Musa Issa Nasasrah from Beit Furik and Hani Bani Maniya from Aqraba.
@TheIDFman Nasasrah died shortly after arriving at the hospital in Nablus, after (it is believed) two settlers shot at him and members of his family in October 2000 while they were picking olives on their land outside of Beit Furik, wounding four of them. Two Itamar residents who were suspected to be responsible for the killing were arrested and released after five days for "insufficient evidence".
@TheIDFman Maniya was killed and two others were wounded in a similar attack in October 2002, while harvesting olives near the village of Aqraba. In September 2004, Itamar resident Yehoshua Elitzur shot and killed Sa'il Mustafa Ahmad Jabarah, a Palestinian Taxi driver from Salem, near the Itamar junction. Elitzur was convicted of manslaughter, was released to house arrest, did not show up in court for his verdict and disappeared.
First of all - Itmar is an illegal settlement. Simply being there is a crime. Secondly, preventing Palestinians from farming THEIR land is another crime. Thirdly, shooting at them FOR NO REASON other than the fact they are Arabs is evil. Fourthly, killing them is pure evil!
No settler was convicted of any crime - if you don't even have the decency to prosecute a murderer - then don't complain when they attack.
Don't mistake me - I am not justifying the act of killing anyone - whether they are Jewish or Arabs, I genuinely hate violence. But the fact is - Palestinians are human beings, Jews are human beings, and when they behave inhumanly towards each other - it doesn't mean one people is inherently bad - it means something on the ground - is very very wrong. I've met Israelis here in my country, about 15 or so - all nice people. I've met hundreds of Arabs, all nice people.
The Palestinian who lost a brother, or a husband to a killing - is not going to forget it - if the murderer was punished, and was treated EXACTLY like a Palestinian murderer, then that is justice - and with justice, there is no motive for vigilante justice. Inequality is the SOURCE of the conflict - an Arab has no right to go home, a Jew has a right to live in house. This is inequality - and ANYONE - including you, will not condemn the victim as much as the cause.
If an Arab took a Jewish home, and stopped the Jews from going back - and if a Jew was stopped on his own land - everyone agrees this is anti-Semitic. But why is it acceptable for Arabs?
@superhamzah85 First of all, the settlements ARE NOT ILLEGAL! They may be detrimental to a peace process, and they are inconvenient but that is apart from legality. I dont support them, but the reasonthey are so fervent with construction is because of moderates like Abbas' comments that "Jews will be banned from any future Palestinian state". The Arabs want the West Bank Jew-free, that will NEVER HAPPEN! Secondly, lets assume Itamar is an illegal settlement, does that justify (cont)
The settlements are designed to make a Palestinian State impossible. The settlers are extreme religious idiots - they are the THE MOST AGAINST a 2 state solution in the world. Why would they accept Palestinian government? You forget Jews lived in Palestine for 1500 years, Arabs invited Jews to stay in Jerusalem, along with other religions in the 8th century - and now you ban Palestinian refugees from even going back home. Of course they hate Israel.
Sorry - but every non-Israeli legal organization, every country EXCEPT Israel - says the settlements are illegal - it is OFFICIALLY occupied land - no one disputes this. Therefore transfer of civilian populations onto occupied land is illegal.
Would Egyptians be able to build settlements in Tel Aviv, and govern them with Egyptian soldiers?
@superhamzah85 And if you mean the UN who accepts that settlements are illegal, then that is a joke. The UN is joke, east Timor, black september, Hama, the UN stands on the sidelines because ether are arab third world nations who live by the barrel. Look up UN and oil, there's a reason they if ignore crimes like Iran and Saudi Arabia, but every time an Israel fires a gun, there's a worldwide investigation, Arab hypocrisy at it's best. The Settlements are legal, look (cont)
Iran is sanctioned! And Saudi Arabia despite it's regimes, doesn't make refugees of people in it's own land. Most Palestinians ARE not in Palestine, and it's not by choice. There is a massive difference.
@superhamzah85 Steven schwebel, also a judge for the International criminal court. The only people still propagating this lie that Israel "invaded" that land through means other than self defense are brainwashed liberals and Muslims. The Arabs kept attacking Israel, even before 1967, and then cry when Israel takes measure so that it doesn't happen again. Welcome to the reality of international politics, you don't get your way you go crying to the UN, Arab hypocrisy is a fucking joke.
No - moving in large orthodox families into occupied territory, while the Negev is empty - is NOTHING to do with security, or housing. It's to do with conquest - anyone can see that - including you - so don't deny it.
@superhamzah85 This argument an go on forever, your only wish is to see the destruction o the ONLY Jewish state,Israel has made more than enough to concede to the Arabs but it's never enough. Arabs are the most hypocritical people on the face of the earth. Like I said, I don't like settlers but I understand why they have gotten so fanatical. After decades of terrorism, people like Baruch Goldstein (no better than Hamas) are expected. I wish the Arabs would stop thinking they're always the victim
@superhamzah85 Understand the fct that Isael is going nowhere and there's nothing you or the rest of the Arab world can do about it. Best to accept a Jewish state in "dar al Islam" The 7 th century is gone, no more caliphate, as for the Palestinians, act like human beings, walk with a sense of humanity and value for life, and the restrictions will end. Until then, you are barking up the wrong tree. The fct o the matter is you hold Israel up to higher standard than the rest of the world(cont)
@superhamzah85 Arabs never get judged the same for the crimes thu commit against Palestinians, it's the hypocrisy of the leftists and Muslims of the world. Muslims are apparently always innocent an the Jew is to blame for all their problems. To most o the world, especially the Arab world, te only good Jew is a dead Jew, and that's why there is an Israel!
@superhamzah85 murdering an entire family and stabbing a 5 month old? Understand the difference here, you are grouping the Israeli govt together with the settlers, that cannot be done, the Israeli government has shown great tolerance to Palestinian issues, look at Gush Katif and Gaza! WHy is it that Israel is always looked upon to make the concessions? Where is the condemnation of suicide bombing or rock throwing. You act as if Israeli restrictions are arbitrary.They are implemented for a reason
But why are we talking about "justify" - when there is no justice? This is the problem - have you visited a settlement? Go as a civilian, and judge for yourself who the Palestinians have as neighbours.
When there is no justice - for Palestinians, when Israelis are not imprisoned for clear acts of murder against Palestinian farmers, racist murders - then don't act surprised.
@superhamzah85 If the Palestinians would just forget about a state in the West Bank, and apply themselves to securing the territory known as Jordan, which is itself Palestine and was the greater part of the BRITISH MANDATE OF PALESTINE, there will be peace. WHy are the Hashemites ruling Jordan when there is a 75% Palestinian majority. There can be citizenship for some Palestinians in the West Bank but a state is out of the question. Jordan=Palestine. Google, "voice of reason from arab dissident"
Sorry but look at google maps satellite, at the region, you can't just look at maps, look at the reality on the ground, the terrain, population, the vast majority of Jordan, and Saudi Arabia, is UNLIVABLE, the most fertile region is the West Bank then towards the coast, this is why the Jewish people occupied it, and stole it in the past, and again today, from the locals. You however were not there - and no Jew in America was ever there, and has no right to be.
@superhamzah85 And why is it that the Palestinians are seeking their "rights" from Israel aNd not Jordan? Because Jordan is Muslim, that's why! Palestinians had no call to nationhood under Jordan and Jordan murdered more of them but yet thy have a problem living under JEWISH rule. Wake up, Palestinians don't want a state, they just don't want to have jews in thei government!
Of course there will be peace if people just forget about their rights. There is always peace when people forget.
But just like the shoah - never forget.
The nakba - never forget.
The shoah happened in Europe, if you want a State, take some of Germany, or Poland, and leave Palestine in peace. Thousands of Israelis have moved to Germany, back to their homeland. Thousands have moved to other places, a million to the USA. In 2030 - the only Israelis in Israel will be assholes.
@superhamzah85 Deaths are tragic on both sides, but the difference is the vast majority of Israelis do not celebrate a Palestinian death, they do not hand out pastries after massacres, and they do not name streets and stadiums after suicide bombers. Israeli doctors treat Palestinians for gods sake. I am a medical student and completed an internship in Israel last year, my clinic treated many Arabs. The lack of respect for life is appalling on the Arab side, where is the humanity?
In Palestine, when a whole city block is flattened or destroyed by Israel,when 20 houses are destroyed in one blow - when a pregnant wife is shot, when a mother and two children are shot dead, when an ambulance is shot, and a hospital is blown up.
What would they think when they see Israelis celebrating the IDF? Exactly what you think of Palestinians supporting their resistance.
Nobody celebrates loss of life on both sides, except for these people
I'm an American who has immigrated to Turkey. I'm an atheist Buddhist. I boycott the terrorist zionist entity. I protest the illegal occupation of Palestine by the zionists and their 60+ year genocide of the Palestinian people. We are all Palestinians! Freedom and Justice For Palestine in 2011! One People, One Palestine! Expel all zionist psychopaths!
@Dharani26 There were 500,000 Arabs in the region in 1948, today 5,000,000. Genocide my ass. You want to see genocide? Ask your new government about the Kurds and Armenians!
@superhamzah85 The numbers have been thrown around, 400,000 to 700,000, regardless 5,000,000 today and according to the UN 11,000,000 "Palestinians" worldwide, impossible growth rates, larger than any growth rate in the world, something is fishy lol, no one is denying there could be a Palestinian state but not at the expense of the ONLY Jewish state. Thousands of Jews move to Israel ever year because of the rhetoric from your side, there is far more violence against Jews in Europe (cont)
Actually more Israelis are leaving than coming in, 4000 a year go to back to their homeland in Germany, others to their homelands, and elsewhere, for other reasons. Germany is the safest place on earth for Jews, you can be jailed for simply denying the holocaust. You will love it.
@superhamzah85 Then against Muslims, and a lot of that violence is perpetrated by Muslims, your comparison of the holocaust and the "nakba" are laughable. What about the Jewish nakba? Where is their compensation of property? The outnumbered the Arabs and were murdered not just expelled. As for the Palestinians, yes there were expulsions but they were not a PoLicy, they were due to specific situations on the ground and most o the time they fled themselves. The Arabs who stayed ended up (cont)
@superhamzah85 Being a 20% minority with full equal rights to this day. If you want denial, look to the Arabs who deny violence against middle eastern Jews before Israel, no it wAnt as bad as under Christendom, but it wasn't a box of roses either. Jews were accepted in Islamic nations as long as they accepted a status as 2nd class citizens. Hebron and Farhud presaged Israel to name just a few. Look up the Jews of morocco and Libya, the grand mufti brought this hatred to palestine.(cont)
Most minorites were second class citizens, even today - but you can't say it would have been like that forever - blacks were second class people in the 60s in USA, and one generation later - a black is the President. Equality is the goal, not conquest.
@superhamzah85 Clearly for yOu "Justice" is the destruction of the OnlY Jewish state. Justice is what happened when Israel was established. In the words of einstein, the creation of Israel created a balance of justice in the world. You complain of refugees for 65 years, try thousands of yeas buddy. After the thousands of years of being refugees and called invaders in other nations, told to "go back to Palestine" now you say Europe is the Jewish homeland?! Before 1965, there was no (cont)
There are no refugees for thousands of years. Rambam was not a refugee - he worked in Spain, and wrote in Egypt, went to Jerusalem for pilgrimage, then went back HOME, even though he could have lived there, that's what human beings do, we move around. The capital of Muslims was Mecca, then it switched to Baghdad, because most Muslims were not Arabians by then.
@superhamzah85 "Palestinian", the "Palestinians" even called themselves Arabs all the same. Just ask Arafat lol, where was he born again? ;). Justice has been served, Israel is alive and well, the only problem now is people like you trying to undo this justice. If Israel went back to the pre-1967 borders tomorrow, would there be peace? I you believe so, you ate unbelievAbly naive. You don't care about Jewish lives, just this leftist Islamic "humanitarian" ideology, and being "right".(cont)
@superhamzah85 And look at Einstein a little closer my friend, he didn't want Israel to have a standin army but eventually he came to grips with the reality of life in the middle east, look up that full quote. Einstein hated violence but he was a fervent ZIONIST, at the declaration of independence in 1948, he said "this is the fulfillment of our (Jewish) dreams" so no, Einstein completely agrees with me ;)
"I should much rather see reasonable agreement with the Arabs on the basis of living together in peace than the creation of a Jewish state. My awareness of the essential nature of Judaism resists the idea of a Jewish state with borders, an army, and a measure of temporal power, no matter how modest. I am afraid of the inner damage Judaism will sustain (cont...)
-- especially from the development of a narrow nationalism within our own ranks, against which we have already had to fight strongly, even without a Jewish state."
Paste this quote again in your reply. Then type "I agree with Einstein"
You won't because you're a Zionist. No Zionist likes history or facts. 'For example, Palestine being an Arab country"
But our argument is not based on "countries" rights, only people's rights. I am anti-Zionist in it's current form - because Israelis born there had no choice but to be born there.
Let's imagine for a moment, that WW2 never happened - and British forces withdrew, Palestine gained independence, like all other Arab countries.
Would Zionism be dead? Obviously not - they would be doing exactly what they're doing now - lobbying the worlds strongest power to invade a place.
@superhamzah85 Once again you are looking past the needs of the Jews when thyey were at their lowest, Jews are the longest refugees ever, the holocaust was only the last straw but ZIonism goes beyond that. Jews have been immigrating back to "Palestine" since the inquisition and even before that. Jews have always held a presence in that land, centuries before the Muslims conquests, yet somehow Arab Muslims claim that Jerusalem must be under Muslim rule and the levant must be under Arab rule.
@superhamzah85 So you mean to tell me that all 11,000,000 "Palestinians" living in the world who claim to be "Palestinians" were born or their immediate family born in "Palestine"? LOL cmon even ARafat was born in Cairo.
@superhamzah85 Zionism in its "current" form is the support of the existence of a Jewish state. Therefore, anti-zionism in its "current" form is the denial of that state to exist. You can be a critic of Israeli government policies, I criticize the settlements and the ultra-orthodox, but there is a fine line between criticism of policy and criticism of a state to even exist. And a Jewish state DOES need to exist!
Anti-Zionism is recognizing it WAS wrong, for the same reasons it RECOGNIZES that destroying a country is also wrong. There is NO contradiction, as destroying Israel NOW is exactly like the Nakba.
There is no Palestinian State today BECAUSE of occupation in the West Bank.
@superhamzah85 There was never a Palestinian state.....ever. There was a Kingdom of Israel, Kingdom of Judah, and Israel. They were always happy living as Arabs in a caliphate, only when Jews began constructing the modern state, suddenly "Palestinian" nationalism was born. Kind of pathetic dont you think?, sort of like a 5 year old wanting a toy just because someone else is playing with it.
@superhamzah85 Most Arabs that had documentation of living there were allowed to return, just ask the 20% minority in Israel. Irgun was a terrible organization, I agree, but they and their ideology were dismantled by the Haganah, which is more than I can say for the militants of the Muslim world, ie: Muslim Brotherhood, Hamas, even the lunatic Iranian regime.
Interesting - given the fact Israel PUBLICALLY doesnt even accept the right to return - and you say most have returned? Denying history is a bad move.
@superhamzah85 Im not a geneticist, but from what I gather the majority of them are Arabs, since when are Arabs native to the levant? Just ask the maronites of Lebanon, or go to Africa and ask the Sudanese how "native" Arabs are.
There was no massive population of Arabs to begin with to colonize that entire region. How can an Arab army of 10 thousand, turn into a quarter million in a decade? They were not Arab armies, but Muslim ones, and Muslims learn Arabic, whether Arab or not as it is the Qur'ans language.
@superhamzah85 Right, so Muslims had every right to take over and convert the levant. But when, Jews decide to establish a state with free religion even, you have a problem, the "Palestinians" arent "Palestinians", they would have lived with Jews in peace in Israel if it werent for their militancy and want for the Arab armies to destroy Israel. Thats why the Druze and Bedouin live as equal citizens in Israel.
That's ancient history - Rome occupied a lot of the world, so did the Ottomans, British, French, Mongols, Arabs etc. Of course they would all be wrong today, and regarded as illegal.
So it's done today - it is wrong, no matter who is doing it. Al-Qaeda are wrong, the Neocons in America invading Iraq are wrong, the Sudanese oppression of Christians and vice versa is wrong - and the Israeli occupation is wrong. Israel isn't singled out - largest marches in history were anti-Iraq war.
@superhamzah85 Look up the numbers and you will see how crazy the growth rate of "Palestinians" are since 1948, it is mathematically impossible, especially when you compare it to European nations or even surrounding Arab nations.
What am I against now - is CONTINUING Zionism - to move people who have never been there, and stop people born there from going back. Jews can never know if they personally lived anywhere 2000 years ago - this is why it is not an exile. Palestinians know 100% they are in exile. It's been FILMED. AND we have witnesses.
You need to get out of the mindset of thinking the way to the future is the past.
@superhamzah85 How can you say Jews never lived there 2000 years ago. It is common sense. Look at the word Jew or Jude, derive that from the word Judea, what was Palestine called before the ROmans renamed it? We have historical record, archeaology, not just the bible. European texts talk about the influx of Jews, where did they come from? We now know the Khazar theory is a myth thanks to genetic science. You have to get out of this mindset thinking "the strong are wrong", (cont)
I'm saying you cannot prove you are not descended from a convert. A Palestinian is far more likely to be a Canaanite than you have of being an Israelite.
@superhamzah85 I am saying there are genetic studies that prove at least 88% of modern Jews are of Middle Eastern descent, partly due to the fact that Jews very very rarely convert, throughout history, tahts why so many died in the inquisition. Show me one genetic study that shows "Palestinians" descend from Canaanites.
@superhamzah85 If a people experienced even half of what the Jews have gone through I would fight for tjeir rights. BUt Palestinians are just cry babies, you want a noble cause? fight for the Sudanese or the Kurds. I will always defend their right.
@superhamzah85 Im not fighting for their independance but Kurds are REALLY brutalized. As are the Sudanese, you complain of "Palestinians" having to go through checkpoints and blockades because of their own actions.
@superhamzah85 I have historical evidence to show the atrocity that wa sthe holocaust. However, I have no historical evidence of a "Palestinian" nationality until they themselves declared it after 1965....
@superhamzah85 Like I said, this argument will go on forever, neither of us will budge from their position, I dont care if "Palestinians" want to give themselves a state, I think it would be retarded as it would be the second state as such like Jordan, which is itself the Palestinian state, just ask Mudar Zahran, but as long as the terror stops, which it never will, do what you please, just leave Israel alone.
If you withdraw from the West Bank, which is not part of Israel - then there will be peace - do you think if the British were doing what Israel is doing would be peaceful? Building english settlements anywhere against the will of the population or government results in conflict, it's obvious.
@superhamzah85 So there is a cutoff for justice? If we wait a few centuries, will the "Palestinians" shut up? You are right "Palestine" exists, its called Jordan. Make your claim with the Hashemites, not Israel. Before 1967, there was no peace, what has changed. In fact, I would argue that Arab leaders and governments within the territories have adopted more radical ideologies and militancy. Pre-1967 borders were borders of war, so your claim that peace will occur is laughable.
@TheIDFman Borders of war? The Arabs didn't recognize those borders in the first place. Now the Palestinians, and Arab league have agreed that they ARE borders for a settlement.
@superhamzah85 That not what I'm talking about,I'm talkig about groups like Hezbollah and Hamas, groups that are ELECTED by Arabs and actually have a say in government, with government participators thats why those are borders of war. No one is denying that Fatah is ready for a peace settlement for example, before Hamas grabbed power, it almost happened, but as we have seen in the past Fatah has no way of controlling Hamas, that's what concerns Israel.
What concerns Palestine is the same thing, you have no way of controlling the fanatical right wing - why don't you ban Avigdor Lieberman from government? The same reason why Hamas can't be banned. The Palestinians elected Hamas because of Fatahs corruption, and their better social services - Lieberman was elected for...what?
@superhamzah85 In Israel there are elections that control the fanatics, there are checks and balances. In the territories, if someone like Hamas wants power, they kill the opposition by lynching them or throwing them off rooftops. Sounds to me like the lack of control is on the "Palestinian" side
@superhamzah85 Israel doesnt annex the West Bank, LIKE JORDAN DID, because that would destroy the JEWISH state. The fact is many of the "Palestinians" living in the West Bank only came there after 1948, thats the only explanation for the mathematically impossible population growth. Bethlehem is a historic Jewish center, lets not forget Jesus was a Jew. The Arabs rejected everything that didnt conform to "Dar al Islam", whether it be a Christian or Jewish state, the point is Jews were there first
@superhamzah85 Yes Bethlehem is Arab, but as Mahmoud Abbas says, "any future Palestinian state will be Jew free", it is the Arabs that do not want to coexist. Lets not forget that Jordan prescribe sthe death penalty for selling property to JEWS (not Israelis). The occupation will continue until Israel has a guarantee that peace will occur, it is the mentality of any nation in the world to protect its citizens. Id the terrorism stops, the occupation will stop. We have already seen with Gaza...
@TheIDFman Israel left Gaza and got rockets for 8 years, are you asking for Israel to do the same with the West Bank? What nation in the world would do such a thing?
@superhamzah85 What Israel wants to do is simply control the strategic part of the Jordan valley along with the Golan Heights so that Syria doesnt try their crap again, especially now that they have Iran as significcant backing aling with a nuclear threat. Relinquishing those areas is suicide, its just practicality, NOT COLONIALISM
If you don't accept the reality that the region you are in is Arab, it will be bad for you. I promise you...the longer Israel continue occupation, the less chance it has. History doesn't lie.
@superhamzah85 You re right History doesnt lie, we have seen that the more restrictions Israel implements, the safer its citizens become, and vice versa, so the occupation is only beneficial until the Arabs decide that they want to live alongside Israel. Then both people will have safety.
They've decided it long ago - you still occupy. That is why they have to resist now. That is why you WILL lose - the longer a people have to fight for freedom - the worse it will be for you.
@superhamzah85 Rockets are irrelevant when your women and children aren't the ones being terrorized by them. The Arabs have decided long ago that they want the Middle East to be Muslim. They have forgotten where their own religion stems from. Look at a map, tiny Israel surrounded by miles upon miles of Muslim Arab land and you are saying Israel are the occupiers? There is no occupation because there was never a "Palestine", there is only a people being used as pawns by corrupt Arab governments
They don't WANT Arab lands, they ARE Arab lands. If they were NOT Arab lands, and wanted them to become Arab lands, I would be against them, just as much Zionists.
@superhamzah85 They arent Arab lands, ask the Maronites of Lebanon or the Sudanese in Africa, the Kurds, LOL, thats like saying Spain was Arab land. NO! The Arabian Peninsula is Arab land, this land was seized and called "Arab Land". Arabs are not native to the Levant, they lost Spain after conquering and are now upset that they are losing the rest of their CONQUERED land
wow
channel9600 1 week ago
Israel use of torture
news(dot)bbc(dot)co(dot)uk/2/hi/middle_east/637293(dot)stm
Rising racism in Israeli judicial system
asianews(dot)it/news-en/Israeli-Supreme-Court%E2%80%99s-racism-23691(dot)html
Israeli raids target children
ipsnews(dot)net/news(dot)asp?idnews=50680
10:1 proportion of innocent arabs vs Israeli dath rate
ifamericansknew(dot)org/
READ this and then tell me Israels innocent or the other excuces about how its justified and Jews have had it so hard and blah blah blah...
aristurtle1 1 month ago 5
@aristurtle1
You do know Palistine built next to schools <who does that ,
What about Hamas saying the will 'hunt the jews down'
What about the 850,000 jews who lost there homes , The Gaza strip was a base for 7,000 rocket attacks against schoolyards and townships . what about all the time israel attmpted peace.
What about all the crimes of palisitne's role in the holocaust?
What about there crimes?
lxAgnosticxl 1 month ago
@aristurtle1
"10:1" it takes an absolute liar to twist a 2001 study by the International Committee of the Red Cross found that the civilian-to-military death ratio in wars fought since the middle of the 20th Century.
The Gaza strip was a base for 7,000 rocket attacks against schoolyards and townships in Israel before the Israelis responded in 2007. During Israel’s airstrikes on Gaza rocket sites there was one civilian death for every 30 terrorists.
lxAgnosticxl 1 month ago
@lxAgnosticxl You know I anticipated that someone would pipe up with either some form of holocaust guilt or the old "you dont know what your talking about/ jews have had it so hard they can do whatever they want" argument. As if anyone who brings up the attrocities of israel is some how the one in the wrong. Mainstream media and politics push pro Israel opinions for financial reasons but others are waking up. Israel is far from innocent and is an instigating force.
aristurtle1 1 month ago
@aristurtle1
"attrocities of Isarel"
You support a teeroist organisation that kill inocent women & children
Mainstrem media is against Israel , So many people portray it as a state that doesn't deserve to exist. Palistine is no victim
Please Name 1 thing Israel has done wrong?
lxAgnosticxl 1 month ago
@lxAgnosticxl you ask me to "name 1 thing has done wrong".
See the sources I listed a few entries down, its the one with all the thumbs up.
aristurtle1 1 month ago
@aristurtle1
The bottem one is a lie , as i previously said,
the second from the bottem is misinformed, We now have video , documented & build plans as evidence that Hams perposly builds next to & in schools to use children as human sheilds yet Israel still kill less civilians than by 3 times as much as any country in history.
lxAgnosticxl 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@aristurtle1
Most of the Arabs living in East Jerusalem and the Golan Heights, occupied by Israel since the Six-Day War of 1967, were offered Israeli citizenship, but refused, not wanting to recognize Israeli sovereignty because they might be killed in there own country and most remarkably
poll conducted by Harvard University's Kennedy School of Government found that 77% percent of Israeli Arabs would rather live in Israel than in any other country in the world.
lxAgnosticxl 1 month ago
@aristurtle1
So i don't think you can say racism in Israel, how someone could even get a statistic for that i don' know.
Israeli torture? Amnesty International investigated this and found Israel Never used torture but only ever used certain ineterigation methods when underthreat of terroism, but if this makes you so unhappy why don't you look up what iran or iraq do? why not look up the things palistine & jordon do and have done?
lxAgnosticxl 1 month ago
@aristurtle1
The father of Palestinian nationalism Haj Amin Al-Husseini, planned death camps for the Jews in the Middle East. Haj Amin Al-Husseini, was a devoted follower of Hitler who spent the war in Berlin, recruited an Arab legion to the Nazi cause and planned a “Final Solution” for the Jews of the Arab world. The Muslim Brotherhood, which created Hamas, the government of Gaza translated Mein Kampf into Arabic in the 1930s and called for the destruction of the Jews.
lxAgnosticxl 1 month ago
@lxAgnosticxl As a Canadian I have no interest in providing foreign aid to Israel or anyone else. I also have no interest in bombing the middle east and provoking terrorist attacks. Israel should fend for itself.
Also, I suppose Naomi Klein a Jewish activist and Jimmy Carter who both call for a boycott of Israel for its apartheid racism and attrocities just dont know what they are talking about right?
aristurtle1 1 month ago
@aristurtle1
Israel can't fend for its self because America has it on a lesh , when they are attack they still ask permission to defend them selves when amerca said no they didn't do a thing , its nice to know we have a friend like Israel in the middle east.
Israel aparteid this I thought this myth ended years ago, so name 1 thing.
I can give you an endless ist of the crimes of Hamas or Hizzbolah.
lxAgnosticxl 1 month ago
@lxAgnosticxl Go out and promote the end of western Israeli ties and all foreign aid to Israel and I will be happy. This is all I want. To not have my country of Canada known as a friend to Israel, then Israel can do what ever it wants.
Again, Jimmy Carter and Naomi Klein have talked about this in recient times go look it up and then tell me you are smarter than they are.
Hamas is irrellevant, they are not out "friends" but Israel is.
aristurtle1 1 month ago
@aristurtle1
I never claimed to be smarter than anyone, You keep giving me these Bullsh*t lies about Israel and clearly didn't check to see if they were true or what others had to say.
So I'm gonna ask one last time please name 1 thing Israel has done wrong? if you don't want to recognise them as a friend to your country you must have some reason, if not your claims are clearly based on crap.
lxAgnosticxl 1 month ago
@aristurtle1 Lol Israelis Apartheid? Luckily, the most common lie about Israel is also the biggest lie, it is clear that at some stage you'll see how this ridiculous claims are, by the way if there are Jews who believe that it does not make them less idiots and ignorant, good day (:
asaf921 1 week ago
@asaf921 look up what former president Jimmy Carter has to say on the apartheid nature of what is going on around Israel where people are being kicked off of their land.
Read what Jewish Canadian activist Naomi Klein has said about Israel's human rights violations or about Israel's use of torture on children and their coverup of this.
Or you can go on pretending Israel has done nothing wrong...
aristurtle1 1 week ago
@aristurtle1 Yeah I know what he says and I know he madea lot of money, you look up the definition of apartheid, and what the source of the word, then we can continue the conversation, otherwise it will be he said she said so.
Like I said I'm happy, the most common lie is the biggest, if possible, add also the most easy to prove that this a ridiculous lie preposterous, we continue?
asaf921 1 week ago
@asaf921 apartheid refers to a segregation and mistreatment of a particular ethnicity or culture within a land where more than one culture exists. In the case of South Africa is was the majority (black) culture that was put down through white government. In Israel, human rights groups and the UN draw the Apartheid comparison because the palestinian population is discriminated against socially (see racism stats) as well as in around the borders where they are kicked off of their land.
aristurtle1 1 week ago
@aristurtle1 Excellent, 20 percent of the population of Israel are Arabs from different sectors, there are Arab MKs, there were several Arab ministers, has Arab judges in courts and even a high court judge, there are Arabs who serve in the army (one of the commanders directly, my army was an Arab Druze), all universities have Arab students (at the University of Haifa nearly half the students are Arabs)
asaf921 1 week ago
@aristurtle1 , there are doctors and patients Arabs and Jews, they have full rights and even affirmative action institutions of learning, they can vote for parliamentary elections, fuck it, they have more rights in Israel than the neighbors in Arab countries. Blacks in South Africa had all this?
asaf921 1 week ago
@aristurtle1 It's enough to walk the streets of Tel Aviv-Jaffa, Acre, Haifa, etc. to understand that Israel is not apartheid, from the PA side has a law that says anyone selling land or other type of real estate to Jews, his sentencing court is death! It's real apartheid, what do Arab countries to the refugee populations of the "Palestinians" that apartheid by the law discriminates against them.
asaf921 1 week ago
@asaf921 Again the same pattern: "israel is great, that palestinians are worse". I cant count the number of times I have heard this.
Again you remove the fact that my country of Canada (US also) is basically under the control of pro Israel lobbiests, media and mainstream politicians and Israel can do whatever they want. So long as my country does not have to be a "friend" to Israel.
aristurtle1 1 week ago
@aristurtle1 I do not know anything about the internal affairs of Canada, so I do not intervenes not,for better or for worse, to express an opinion on Canada I have to learn a little more depth.And also you should do regarding Israel,that is the decent thing to do,go blindly after propaganda and incitement causes real damage! , you encourage those that incite and eventually leads to people dying as a result of lies spreading ,what I proved you about the"apartheid"is just the tip of the iceberg.
asaf921 1 week ago
@aristurtle1 I guess you not really care about the truth or make things better,I care because that is my future and the people that matter to me,you have every right to your opinion regarding the relationship of Canada and Israel,or anything your government does it is your business.Just try no to meddle with things you do not understand,or condemn and slander people for no reason,especially if you do not know anything about them,or the circumstances in which they live,you think you can do it?
asaf921 1 week ago
@asaf921 RACISM IN ISRAEL ON THE RISE
ynetnews(DOT)com/articles/0,7340,L-3480345,00.html
ISRAEL'S USE OF TORTURE AND COVERUP
news(DOT)bbc(DOT)co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/637293.stm
OCCUPATION OF GAZE AS APARTHEID
guardian(DOT)co(DOT)uk/world/2007/feb/23/israelandthepalestinians.unitednations
REPLACE (DOT) WITH AN ACTUAL .
Let me guess your response will be: a. Palestinians are worse (the "he started it" kindergarden argument" b. Jews have had it bad they can do whatever c. those are lies
aristurtle1 1 week ago
@aristurtle1 You did not understand the message I'm trying, to pass, I mention the circumstances and facts to expose lies and half truths are spoken about Israel (mostly completely false). My goal is to achieve real peace (Peace comes from the people and not artificially through government) I know the lies spread about Israel is the root of the problem, when people will understand (slow and sure it's already starting to happen) they have no real reason to hate us, then peace will come
asaf921 1 week ago
@aristurtle1 I do not know if you are aware that (probably not) Israel pulled by force the settlement, from Gaza in 2005 so that the Palestinians will have the opportunity to evolve in terms of economy and develop the area and also provided funds to the PA (taxpayers Israeli), to achieve peace, rather than develop, they began fire missiles on Israel's southern communities on a daily basis (shooting lasted until today)
asaf921 1 week ago
@aristurtle1 Attempt to display the security fence as "apartheid wall" baseless propaganda, the nature of the fence defined by Israel's intention is to protect its citizens (I will detail to you a personal a message, why fence was built.) Your contempt, on people's lives, you think it's fucking game?!? ("he started it") kindergarden argument ", when you're reach, hand, for peace (in words and deed, to make concessions to the other side, .
asaf921 1 week ago
@aristurtle1 and the other side attacks you (that means people die), you need to defends yoreself, and also attacks when needed
asaf921 1 week ago
lol, all of those people are against a jewish state? why?well, i guess they never had a holocaust, they always had COUNTRY and ARMY THAT CAN SUPPORT THEM NOT LIKE the JEWS
userarefull 1 month ago
@userarefull shove your caps up your ass.
The holocaust does not give Israel the right to use torture against children and illegally expand kicking people off their land. They are like the nazis of this generation.
But go lay on the holocaust guilt anyways.
aristurtle1 1 month ago
Fuck "Palestine" Go Israel take all the lands !!! gaza and west bank take it already i will help you !!!
susromf5 1 month ago
Omg! 10 minutes of no actual logic reason why they hate Israel! 10 minutes of mommbling people."amm beacause israel is killing little childdren(BS)." "amm beacuse israel is bad(BS)".
im sorry but your arguments are invalid.
Those "humanitarians" dont support peace or love of any of the things they've said.They simply support the distroction of the jewish state of Israel.
Those people have no actual argument on which i can give a dignified answer.
Id like to respond more but only 500 characters:)
EladAmosiProductions 2 months ago
@EladAmosiProductions in the 1940's, >200-300,000 palestinians were kicked out of their homes-many were killed. Zionists rhetoric to the palestinians were "you will be treated like dogs" and "we have no solution for you" and "the arabs must go" and theodur hurtzel (zionist founder) even said that we should deport the "penless population" out of the land and find work for them elsewhere.I dont' support israel. Israel would have worked if they didn't implement apartheid.And YES IT IS APARTHEID!
nystagmus 2 months ago
they believe in peace and love but are for the annihilation of an entire people
smthingsimple 3 months ago
I am Muslim but i love Jews since they are too victums of Evil Zionisim
shadowofears 4 months ago
I love Jews, but zionists? meh...
m0eLeBNaN 5 months ago
@DM5ive9 And you seem to have forgotten why the Jews were driven out of arab countries in 1948. It was as a back lash for Jewish atrocities against Palestinians.
Today Ashkenazim comprise about 80% of all Jews and the majority of these lived in Europe pre1946. These comprise by far the greatest part of those Jews who have migrated to Israel. They had lived in Europe for 1200 years and as such have no claim on Palestine just as I have no claim on an English "Homeland".
ozzirt 5 months ago
I support Palestine... but I'm against religion ...For human rights... and justice ..
kongerle 7 months ago 10
I believe these people are not against the jews or judaism but they are against the oppression/ cruelty/ killing of innocent people conducted by The Israeli goverment aka ZIONIST!!
sf19469z 7 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
John Voight -- “How have we come to a time when blowing up babies and cutting their throats are an acceptable means to a political goal?...I feel complete contempt for anyone not intelligent enough to see that the media propaganda portraying the Palestinians as victims endangers the state of Israel."
vechorik 6 months ago
INJUSTICE should be condemned by ALL!
sf19469z 7 months ago
I'm proud of you people!!! PEACE for the WORLD! Together we stand!!!
sf19469z 7 months ago
Don't worry, in a few years when the Zionists finally realise that they can never live in peace so long as they oppress the owners of the land, they'll all be wanting to go back home to Europe and elsewhere where they belong.
ozzirt 7 months ago
That video is very great
FREE PALESTINE
FROM BRAZIL
poluiso 7 months ago 10
Actually - palestine is only Gaza area up to Ashdod. No west bank.
This historically has been the case for about 500 years prior to Israel.
Palestians were given a chance for peace when Israel pull all their settlers out of Gaza and GAVE to palestians. So palestians turn around and elect Hamas on the promise to destroy Israel - then launch rockets.
It was THEN a blockade was put in place.
And Palestians continue to claim they want peace-
Only FUCKTARDS with amnesia would believe that
jabberwolf 7 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Israel is a growing tumor in the heart of our planet!
I HATE ISRAEL
Israil (JEWS) GOOOOO BACK TO WESTERN EUROPE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
GREETING FROM TURKEY!!
ulas888 8 months ago
17 zoinists..!
MyTruth786 8 months ago
so many idiots.....
TheIDFman 8 months ago
@TheIDFman
Have you ever considered that a Jew is just a human being? Like everyone else? No better.
If that is the case - Jews are capable of anything - including Nazism.
superhamzah85 8 months ago
@superhamzah85 Have you ever considered that a strong military has nothing to do with being fascist? Have you seen the brutality of Arabs? Give me one case in Israeli warfare that compares to the brutality of what the Arabs did in Itamar or Ramallah
TheIDFman 8 months ago
@TheIDFman
The IDF prohibit Palestinian farmers from working at their fields close to the settlement and are required to protect them during the olive harvest. However, residents of Itamar and its outposts have been reported harassing local Palestinians, damaging their property and obstructing their access to land, particularly during the olive harvest.
superhamzah85 8 months ago
@TheIDFman
They have reportedly stolen olives, prevented Palestinian farmers from reaching their land, even when accompanied by international activists, shot at farmers picking their olives, or grazing their animals. It is alleged that they have set fire to hundreds of olive trees and thousands of dunam of cultivated land belonging to local Palestinians.
superhamzah85 8 months ago
@TheIDFman
The small village of Yanun, which is flanked by the settlement's outposts, particularly suffers from constant harassment and attacks, which caused the villagers to abandon their village in October 2002 and move to the larger nearby village of Aqraba. In some cases, the alleged violence has resulted in death. Among the victims are Farid Musa Issa Nasasrah from Beit Furik and Hani Bani Maniya from Aqraba.
superhamzah85 8 months ago
@TheIDFman Nasasrah died shortly after arriving at the hospital in Nablus, after (it is believed) two settlers shot at him and members of his family in October 2000 while they were picking olives on their land outside of Beit Furik, wounding four of them. Two Itamar residents who were suspected to be responsible for the killing were arrested and released after five days for "insufficient evidence".
superhamzah85 8 months ago
@TheIDFman Maniya was killed and two others were wounded in a similar attack in October 2002, while harvesting olives near the village of Aqraba. In September 2004, Itamar resident Yehoshua Elitzur shot and killed Sa'il Mustafa Ahmad Jabarah, a Palestinian Taxi driver from Salem, near the Itamar junction. Elitzur was convicted of manslaughter, was released to house arrest, did not show up in court for his verdict and disappeared.
superhamzah85 8 months ago
@TheIDFman
First of all - Itmar is an illegal settlement. Simply being there is a crime. Secondly, preventing Palestinians from farming THEIR land is another crime. Thirdly, shooting at them FOR NO REASON other than the fact they are Arabs is evil. Fourthly, killing them is pure evil!
No settler was convicted of any crime - if you don't even have the decency to prosecute a murderer - then don't complain when they attack.
superhamzah85 8 months ago
@TheIDFman
Don't mistake me - I am not justifying the act of killing anyone - whether they are Jewish or Arabs, I genuinely hate violence. But the fact is - Palestinians are human beings, Jews are human beings, and when they behave inhumanly towards each other - it doesn't mean one people is inherently bad - it means something on the ground - is very very wrong. I've met Israelis here in my country, about 15 or so - all nice people. I've met hundreds of Arabs, all nice people.
superhamzah85 8 months ago
The Palestinian who lost a brother, or a husband to a killing - is not going to forget it - if the murderer was punished, and was treated EXACTLY like a Palestinian murderer, then that is justice - and with justice, there is no motive for vigilante justice. Inequality is the SOURCE of the conflict - an Arab has no right to go home, a Jew has a right to live in house. This is inequality - and ANYONE - including you, will not condemn the victim as much as the cause.
superhamzah85 8 months ago
If an Arab took a Jewish home, and stopped the Jews from going back - and if a Jew was stopped on his own land - everyone agrees this is anti-Semitic. But why is it acceptable for Arabs?
superhamzah85 8 months ago
@superhamzah85 First of all, the settlements ARE NOT ILLEGAL! They may be detrimental to a peace process, and they are inconvenient but that is apart from legality. I dont support them, but the reasonthey are so fervent with construction is because of moderates like Abbas' comments that "Jews will be banned from any future Palestinian state". The Arabs want the West Bank Jew-free, that will NEVER HAPPEN! Secondly, lets assume Itamar is an illegal settlement, does that justify (cont)
TheIDFman 8 months ago
@TheIDFman
The settlements are designed to make a Palestinian State impossible. The settlers are extreme religious idiots - they are the THE MOST AGAINST a 2 state solution in the world. Why would they accept Palestinian government? You forget Jews lived in Palestine for 1500 years, Arabs invited Jews to stay in Jerusalem, along with other religions in the 8th century - and now you ban Palestinian refugees from even going back home. Of course they hate Israel.
superhamzah85 8 months ago
Sorry - but every non-Israeli legal organization, every country EXCEPT Israel - says the settlements are illegal - it is OFFICIALLY occupied land - no one disputes this. Therefore transfer of civilian populations onto occupied land is illegal.
Would Egyptians be able to build settlements in Tel Aviv, and govern them with Egyptian soldiers?
superhamzah85 8 months ago
@superhamzah85 And if you mean the UN who accepts that settlements are illegal, then that is a joke. The UN is joke, east Timor, black september, Hama, the UN stands on the sidelines because ether are arab third world nations who live by the barrel. Look up UN and oil, there's a reason they if ignore crimes like Iran and Saudi Arabia, but every time an Israel fires a gun, there's a worldwide investigation, Arab hypocrisy at it's best. The Settlements are legal, look (cont)
TheIDFman 8 months ago
@TheIDFman
Iran is sanctioned! And Saudi Arabia despite it's regimes, doesn't make refugees of people in it's own land. Most Palestinians ARE not in Palestine, and it's not by choice. There is a massive difference.
superhamzah85 8 months ago
@superhamzah85 Steven schwebel, also a judge for the International criminal court. The only people still propagating this lie that Israel "invaded" that land through means other than self defense are brainwashed liberals and Muslims. The Arabs kept attacking Israel, even before 1967, and then cry when Israel takes measure so that it doesn't happen again. Welcome to the reality of international politics, you don't get your way you go crying to the UN, Arab hypocrisy is a fucking joke.
TheIDFman 8 months ago
@TheIDFman
No - moving in large orthodox families into occupied territory, while the Negev is empty - is NOTHING to do with security, or housing. It's to do with conquest - anyone can see that - including you - so don't deny it.
superhamzah85 8 months ago
@TheIDFman
Israeli settlers are the most fanatical Israelis, they are the worst neighbours anyone can have.
superhamzah85 8 months ago
@superhamzah85 This argument an go on forever, your only wish is to see the destruction o the ONLY Jewish state,Israel has made more than enough to concede to the Arabs but it's never enough. Arabs are the most hypocritical people on the face of the earth. Like I said, I don't like settlers but I understand why they have gotten so fanatical. After decades of terrorism, people like Baruch Goldstein (no better than Hamas) are expected. I wish the Arabs would stop thinking they're always the victim
TheIDFman 8 months ago
@TheIDFman
After decades of Zionism, people like Hamas are expected. Zionists started the war.
superhamzah85 8 months ago
@superhamzah85 Understand the fct that Isael is going nowhere and there's nothing you or the rest of the Arab world can do about it. Best to accept a Jewish state in "dar al Islam" The 7 th century is gone, no more caliphate, as for the Palestinians, act like human beings, walk with a sense of humanity and value for life, and the restrictions will end. Until then, you are barking up the wrong tree. The fct o the matter is you hold Israel up to higher standard than the rest of the world(cont)
TheIDFman 8 months ago
@TheIDFman
Israel is not real - it can't go anywhere. Israelis are real - and they are going everywhere, mostly America, and thousands a year to Europe.
superhamzah85 8 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@TheIDFman
Do you know why worldwide protests against Israel are NOT going away?
/watch?v=emB4NRTpOAc
There is your answer.
superhamzah85 8 months ago
@superhamzah85 Arabs never get judged the same for the crimes thu commit against Palestinians, it's the hypocrisy of the leftists and Muslims of the world. Muslims are apparently always innocent an the Jew is to blame for all their problems. To most o the world, especially the Arab world, te only good Jew is a dead Jew, and that's why there is an Israel!
TheIDFman 8 months ago
@TheIDFman
The only good Jew is one who thinks an Arab is equal. Same goes for Arabs.
superhamzah85 8 months ago
@superhamzah85 murdering an entire family and stabbing a 5 month old? Understand the difference here, you are grouping the Israeli govt together with the settlers, that cannot be done, the Israeli government has shown great tolerance to Palestinian issues, look at Gush Katif and Gaza! WHy is it that Israel is always looked upon to make the concessions? Where is the condemnation of suicide bombing or rock throwing. You act as if Israeli restrictions are arbitrary.They are implemented for a reason
TheIDFman 8 months ago
@TheIDFman
No of course nothing justifies it.
But why are we talking about "justify" - when there is no justice? This is the problem - have you visited a settlement? Go as a civilian, and judge for yourself who the Palestinians have as neighbours.
When there is no justice - for Palestinians, when Israelis are not imprisoned for clear acts of murder against Palestinian farmers, racist murders - then don't act surprised.
superhamzah85 8 months ago
@superhamzah85 If the Palestinians would just forget about a state in the West Bank, and apply themselves to securing the territory known as Jordan, which is itself Palestine and was the greater part of the BRITISH MANDATE OF PALESTINE, there will be peace. WHy are the Hashemites ruling Jordan when there is a 75% Palestinian majority. There can be citizenship for some Palestinians in the West Bank but a state is out of the question. Jordan=Palestine. Google, "voice of reason from arab dissident"
TheIDFman 8 months ago
@TheIDFman
Sorry but look at google maps satellite, at the region, you can't just look at maps, look at the reality on the ground, the terrain, population, the vast majority of Jordan, and Saudi Arabia, is UNLIVABLE, the most fertile region is the West Bank then towards the coast, this is why the Jewish people occupied it, and stole it in the past, and again today, from the locals. You however were not there - and no Jew in America was ever there, and has no right to be.
superhamzah85 8 months ago
@TheIDFman
The Hashemites rule Jordan because the British Empire imposed it on them. Just like they imposed Zionists on Palestine.
Divide and conquer - but they forgot to conquer. And left the place after WW2. The whole middle-east is "divide, but no conquer".
Now it's being fixed, in Egypt, Libya, etc.
Oh and thanks for admitting the Zionist policy - they want the land, and not the Arabs. Mud is more important than human beings.
superhamzah85 8 months ago
@superhamzah85 And why is it that the Palestinians are seeking their "rights" from Israel aNd not Jordan? Because Jordan is Muslim, that's why! Palestinians had no call to nationhood under Jordan and Jordan murdered more of them but yet thy have a problem living under JEWISH rule. Wake up, Palestinians don't want a state, they just don't want to have jews in thei government!
TheIDFman 8 months ago
@TheIDFman
Because Palestinians born, or living where your soldiers are don't see Jordan as a the problem, but your soldiers as the problem, obviously.
superhamzah85 8 months ago
@TheIDFman
Of course there will be peace if people just forget about their rights. There is always peace when people forget.
But just like the shoah - never forget.
The nakba - never forget.
The shoah happened in Europe, if you want a State, take some of Germany, or Poland, and leave Palestine in peace. Thousands of Israelis have moved to Germany, back to their homeland. Thousands have moved to other places, a million to the USA. In 2030 - the only Israelis in Israel will be assholes.
superhamzah85 8 months ago
@superhamzah85 Deaths are tragic on both sides, but the difference is the vast majority of Israelis do not celebrate a Palestinian death, they do not hand out pastries after massacres, and they do not name streets and stadiums after suicide bombers. Israeli doctors treat Palestinians for gods sake. I am a medical student and completed an internship in Israel last year, my clinic treated many Arabs. The lack of respect for life is appalling on the Arab side, where is the humanity?
TheIDFman 8 months ago
@TheIDFman
In Palestine, when a whole city block is flattened or destroyed by Israel,when 20 houses are destroyed in one blow - when a pregnant wife is shot, when a mother and two children are shot dead, when an ambulance is shot, and a hospital is blown up.
What would they think when they see Israelis celebrating the IDF? Exactly what you think of Palestinians supporting their resistance.
Nobody celebrates loss of life on both sides, except for these people
/watch?v=9mJp5d3ffP8
superhamzah85 8 months ago
if you an american and you like this video, you better think about the millions of american indians destroyed during america's inception
dvzqz87 8 months ago
God Bless the Vulnerable
catwatters4 8 months ago
amazing video thanks for sharing! much love!!
oelhayek 9 months ago
Freedom before peace!
j98765432123 9 months ago
@j98765432123 i would say freedom=peace
oelhayek 9 months ago
I'm an American who has immigrated to Turkey. I'm an atheist Buddhist. I boycott the terrorist zionist entity. I protest the illegal occupation of Palestine by the zionists and their 60+ year genocide of the Palestinian people. We are all Palestinians! Freedom and Justice For Palestine in 2011! One People, One Palestine! Expel all zionist psychopaths!
Dharani26 9 months ago 6
@Dharani26 There were 500,000 Arabs in the region in 1948, today 5,000,000. Genocide my ass. You want to see genocide? Ask your new government about the Kurds and Armenians!
TheIDFman 8 months ago
@TheIDFman
Holocausts are very expensive - Israelis pioneered a new method by massacering a few hundred, and then the rest escape out of fear - by themselves.
5 MILLION refugees.
superhamzah85 8 months ago
@TheIDFman
500,000? lol - if there were 500 thousand, how can there be 700,000 refugees alone in 1948.
Denying that is almost as bad as denying the shoah..
superhamzah85 8 months ago
@superhamzah85 The numbers have been thrown around, 400,000 to 700,000, regardless 5,000,000 today and according to the UN 11,000,000 "Palestinians" worldwide, impossible growth rates, larger than any growth rate in the world, something is fishy lol, no one is denying there could be a Palestinian state but not at the expense of the ONLY Jewish state. Thousands of Jews move to Israel ever year because of the rhetoric from your side, there is far more violence against Jews in Europe (cont)
TheIDFman 8 months ago
@TheIDFman
Actually more Israelis are leaving than coming in, 4000 a year go to back to their homeland in Germany, others to their homelands, and elsewhere, for other reasons. Germany is the safest place on earth for Jews, you can be jailed for simply denying the holocaust. You will love it.
superhamzah85 8 months ago
@superhamzah85 Then against Muslims, and a lot of that violence is perpetrated by Muslims, your comparison of the holocaust and the "nakba" are laughable. What about the Jewish nakba? Where is their compensation of property? The outnumbered the Arabs and were murdered not just expelled. As for the Palestinians, yes there were expulsions but they were not a PoLicy, they were due to specific situations on the ground and most o the time they fled themselves. The Arabs who stayed ended up (cont)
TheIDFman 8 months ago
@superhamzah85 Being a 20% minority with full equal rights to this day. If you want denial, look to the Arabs who deny violence against middle eastern Jews before Israel, no it wAnt as bad as under Christendom, but it wasn't a box of roses either. Jews were accepted in Islamic nations as long as they accepted a status as 2nd class citizens. Hebron and Farhud presaged Israel to name just a few. Look up the Jews of morocco and Libya, the grand mufti brought this hatred to palestine.(cont)
TheIDFman 8 months ago
@TheIDFman
Most minorites were second class citizens, even today - but you can't say it would have been like that forever - blacks were second class people in the 60s in USA, and one generation later - a black is the President. Equality is the goal, not conquest.
superhamzah85 8 months ago
@superhamzah85 Clearly for yOu "Justice" is the destruction of the OnlY Jewish state. Justice is what happened when Israel was established. In the words of einstein, the creation of Israel created a balance of justice in the world. You complain of refugees for 65 years, try thousands of yeas buddy. After the thousands of years of being refugees and called invaders in other nations, told to "go back to Palestine" now you say Europe is the Jewish homeland?! Before 1965, there was no (cont)
TheIDFman 8 months ago
@TheIDFman
There are no refugees for thousands of years. Rambam was not a refugee - he worked in Spain, and wrote in Egypt, went to Jerusalem for pilgrimage, then went back HOME, even though he could have lived there, that's what human beings do, we move around. The capital of Muslims was Mecca, then it switched to Baghdad, because most Muslims were not Arabians by then.
superhamzah85 8 months ago
@superhamzah85 "Palestinian", the "Palestinians" even called themselves Arabs all the same. Just ask Arafat lol, where was he born again? ;). Justice has been served, Israel is alive and well, the only problem now is people like you trying to undo this justice. If Israel went back to the pre-1967 borders tomorrow, would there be peace? I you believe so, you ate unbelievAbly naive. You don't care about Jewish lives, just this leftist Islamic "humanitarian" ideology, and being "right".(cont)
TheIDFman 8 months ago
@TheIDFman
Einstein disagrees with you. He said he would rather have peace with the Arabs instead of a Zionist State - INSTEAD.
superhamzah85 8 months ago
@superhamzah85 And look at Einstein a little closer my friend, he didn't want Israel to have a standin army but eventually he came to grips with the reality of life in the middle east, look up that full quote. Einstein hated violence but he was a fervent ZIONIST, at the declaration of independence in 1948, he said "this is the fulfillment of our (Jewish) dreams" so no, Einstein completely agrees with me ;)
TheIDFman 8 months ago
@TheIDFman
/watch?v=MpKWfxp2yLA
You FAIL
He was initially fighting for Jewish rights, just as I would - but also fought for Arab rights, just as I would.
Great minds, think alike.
superhamzah85 8 months ago
"I should much rather see reasonable agreement with the Arabs on the basis of living together in peace than the creation of a Jewish state. My awareness of the essential nature of Judaism resists the idea of a Jewish state with borders, an army, and a measure of temporal power, no matter how modest. I am afraid of the inner damage Judaism will sustain (cont...)
superhamzah85 8 months ago
-- especially from the development of a narrow nationalism within our own ranks, against which we have already had to fight strongly, even without a Jewish state."
Paste this quote again in your reply. Then type "I agree with Einstein"
You won't because you're a Zionist. No Zionist likes history or facts. 'For example, Palestine being an Arab country"
superhamzah85 8 months ago
@superhamzah85 Anti zionists hate facts even more. For example: Palestine was never a country.....
TheIDFman 8 months ago
@TheIDFman
But our argument is not based on "countries" rights, only people's rights. I am anti-Zionist in it's current form - because Israelis born there had no choice but to be born there.
Let's imagine for a moment, that WW2 never happened - and British forces withdrew, Palestine gained independence, like all other Arab countries.
Would Zionism be dead? Obviously not - they would be doing exactly what they're doing now - lobbying the worlds strongest power to invade a place.
superhamzah85 8 months ago
@superhamzah85 Once again you are looking past the needs of the Jews when thyey were at their lowest, Jews are the longest refugees ever, the holocaust was only the last straw but ZIonism goes beyond that. Jews have been immigrating back to "Palestine" since the inquisition and even before that. Jews have always held a presence in that land, centuries before the Muslims conquests, yet somehow Arab Muslims claim that Jerusalem must be under Muslim rule and the levant must be under Arab rule.
TheIDFman 8 months ago
@TheIDFman
A refugee is someone who has no citizenship of the place they were born or their immediate family. Use the same meaning for refugee as everyone else.
superhamzah85 8 months ago
@superhamzah85 So you mean to tell me that all 11,000,000 "Palestinians" living in the world who claim to be "Palestinians" were born or their immediate family born in "Palestine"? LOL cmon even ARafat was born in Cairo.
TheIDFman 8 months ago
@superhamzah85 Zionism in its "current" form is the support of the existence of a Jewish state. Therefore, anti-zionism in its "current" form is the denial of that state to exist. You can be a critic of Israeli government policies, I criticize the settlements and the ultra-orthodox, but there is a fine line between criticism of policy and criticism of a state to even exist. And a Jewish state DOES need to exist!
TheIDFman 8 months ago
@TheIDFman
Anti-Zionism is recognizing it WAS wrong, for the same reasons it RECOGNIZES that destroying a country is also wrong. There is NO contradiction, as destroying Israel NOW is exactly like the Nakba.
There is no Palestinian State today BECAUSE of occupation in the West Bank.
superhamzah85 8 months ago
@superhamzah85 There was never a Palestinian state.....ever. There was a Kingdom of Israel, Kingdom of Judah, and Israel. They were always happy living as Arabs in a caliphate, only when Jews began constructing the modern state, suddenly "Palestinian" nationalism was born. Kind of pathetic dont you think?, sort of like a 5 year old wanting a toy just because someone else is playing with it.
TheIDFman 8 months ago
@TheIDFman
No, they wanted to keep their homes and communities. Being threatened by the Irgun.
superhamzah85 8 months ago
@superhamzah85 Most Arabs that had documentation of living there were allowed to return, just ask the 20% minority in Israel. Irgun was a terrible organization, I agree, but they and their ideology were dismantled by the Haganah, which is more than I can say for the militants of the Muslim world, ie: Muslim Brotherhood, Hamas, even the lunatic Iranian regime.
TheIDFman 8 months ago
@TheIDFman
Interesting - given the fact Israel PUBLICALLY doesnt even accept the right to return - and you say most have returned? Denying history is a bad move.
superhamzah85 8 months ago
@superhamzah85 Because most people who claim to be "Palestinians" arent....simple.
TheIDFman 8 months ago
@TheIDFman
Why don't you do a genetic study on them? See if you find middle-eastern descent.
That's exactly your argument for Jews isn't it?
superhamzah85 8 months ago
@superhamzah85 Im not a geneticist, but from what I gather the majority of them are Arabs, since when are Arabs native to the levant? Just ask the maronites of Lebanon, or go to Africa and ask the Sudanese how "native" Arabs are.
TheIDFman 8 months ago
@TheIDFman
There was no massive population of Arabs to begin with to colonize that entire region. How can an Arab army of 10 thousand, turn into a quarter million in a decade? They were not Arab armies, but Muslim ones, and Muslims learn Arabic, whether Arab or not as it is the Qur'ans language.
superhamzah85 8 months ago
@superhamzah85 Right, so Muslims had every right to take over and convert the levant. But when, Jews decide to establish a state with free religion even, you have a problem, the "Palestinians" arent "Palestinians", they would have lived with Jews in peace in Israel if it werent for their militancy and want for the Arab armies to destroy Israel. Thats why the Druze and Bedouin live as equal citizens in Israel.
TheIDFman 8 months ago
@TheIDFman
That's ancient history - Rome occupied a lot of the world, so did the Ottomans, British, French, Mongols, Arabs etc. Of course they would all be wrong today, and regarded as illegal.
So it's done today - it is wrong, no matter who is doing it. Al-Qaeda are wrong, the Neocons in America invading Iraq are wrong, the Sudanese oppression of Christians and vice versa is wrong - and the Israeli occupation is wrong. Israel isn't singled out - largest marches in history were anti-Iraq war.
superhamzah85 8 months ago
@superhamzah85 Look up the numbers and you will see how crazy the growth rate of "Palestinians" are since 1948, it is mathematically impossible, especially when you compare it to European nations or even surrounding Arab nations.
TheIDFman 8 months ago
@TheIDFman
Whoever can prove it should be allowed to return...those who can't get citizenship where they are?
Is THAT fair? Or are you still against it.
superhamzah85 8 months ago
What am I against now - is CONTINUING Zionism - to move people who have never been there, and stop people born there from going back. Jews can never know if they personally lived anywhere 2000 years ago - this is why it is not an exile. Palestinians know 100% they are in exile. It's been FILMED. AND we have witnesses.
You need to get out of the mindset of thinking the way to the future is the past.
superhamzah85 8 months ago
@superhamzah85 How can you say Jews never lived there 2000 years ago. It is common sense. Look at the word Jew or Jude, derive that from the word Judea, what was Palestine called before the ROmans renamed it? We have historical record, archeaology, not just the bible. European texts talk about the influx of Jews, where did they come from? We now know the Khazar theory is a myth thanks to genetic science. You have to get out of this mindset thinking "the strong are wrong", (cont)
TheIDFman 8 months ago
@TheIDFman
I'm saying you cannot prove you are not descended from a convert. A Palestinian is far more likely to be a Canaanite than you have of being an Israelite.
superhamzah85 8 months ago
@superhamzah85 I am saying there are genetic studies that prove at least 88% of modern Jews are of Middle Eastern descent, partly due to the fact that Jews very very rarely convert, throughout history, tahts why so many died in the inquisition. Show me one genetic study that shows "Palestinians" descend from Canaanites.
TheIDFman 8 months ago
So? A person in UK can have Indian descent, this doesn't make him in exile. LOL
superhamzah85 8 months ago
@superhamzah85 A person with an Indian accent was never brutalized by the entire world and told "Go Back to India" LOL
TheIDFman 8 months ago
@TheIDFman
If they were - would you fight for their rights where they live?
superhamzah85 8 months ago
@superhamzah85 If a people experienced even half of what the Jews have gone through I would fight for tjeir rights. BUt Palestinians are just cry babies, you want a noble cause? fight for the Sudanese or the Kurds. I will always defend their right.
TheIDFman 8 months ago
@TheIDFman
Why are you fighting for Kurds, there has never been a country called "Kurdistan".
I'm using YOUR arguments here, not my own.
superhamzah85 8 months ago
@superhamzah85 Im not fighting for their independance but Kurds are REALLY brutalized. As are the Sudanese, you complain of "Palestinians" having to go through checkpoints and blockades because of their own actions.
TheIDFman 8 months ago
@TheIDFman
The fact you put "Palestinians" is like someone typing "holocaust".
Don't treat them in the same that people you hate treat you.
superhamzah85 8 months ago
@superhamzah85 I have historical evidence to show the atrocity that wa sthe holocaust. However, I have no historical evidence of a "Palestinian" nationality until they themselves declared it after 1965....
TheIDFman 8 months ago
@TheIDFman
There are Palestinian Embassies in 130 countries, it exists - and you occupy it.
superhamzah85 8 months ago
@superhamzah85 Like I said, this argument will go on forever, neither of us will budge from their position, I dont care if "Palestinians" want to give themselves a state, I think it would be retarded as it would be the second state as such like Jordan, which is itself the Palestinian state, just ask Mudar Zahran, but as long as the terror stops, which it never will, do what you please, just leave Israel alone.
TheIDFman 8 months ago
@TheIDFman
If you withdraw from the West Bank, which is not part of Israel - then there will be peace - do you think if the British were doing what Israel is doing would be peaceful? Building english settlements anywhere against the will of the population or government results in conflict, it's obvious.
superhamzah85 8 months ago
@superhamzah85 So there is a cutoff for justice? If we wait a few centuries, will the "Palestinians" shut up? You are right "Palestine" exists, its called Jordan. Make your claim with the Hashemites, not Israel. Before 1967, there was no peace, what has changed. In fact, I would argue that Arab leaders and governments within the territories have adopted more radical ideologies and militancy. Pre-1967 borders were borders of war, so your claim that peace will occur is laughable.
TheIDFman 8 months ago
@TheIDFman Borders of war? The Arabs didn't recognize those borders in the first place. Now the Palestinians, and Arab league have agreed that they ARE borders for a settlement.
superhamzah85 8 months ago
@superhamzah85 That not what I'm talking about,I'm talkig about groups like Hezbollah and Hamas, groups that are ELECTED by Arabs and actually have a say in government, with government participators thats why those are borders of war. No one is denying that Fatah is ready for a peace settlement for example, before Hamas grabbed power, it almost happened, but as we have seen in the past Fatah has no way of controlling Hamas, that's what concerns Israel.
TheIDFman 8 months ago
@TheIDFman
What concerns Palestine is the same thing, you have no way of controlling the fanatical right wing - why don't you ban Avigdor Lieberman from government? The same reason why Hamas can't be banned. The Palestinians elected Hamas because of Fatahs corruption, and their better social services - Lieberman was elected for...what?
superhamzah85 8 months ago
@superhamzah85 Just like the only reason Israel and Lebanon are at odds to this day is because Hezbollah still has a presence in Lebanon
TheIDFman 8 months ago
@superhamzah85 In Israel there are elections that control the fanatics, there are checks and balances. In the territories, if someone like Hamas wants power, they kill the opposition by lynching them or throwing them off rooftops. Sounds to me like the lack of control is on the "Palestinian" side
TheIDFman 8 months ago
@TheIDFman
Obviously there were those incidents - but now there aren't. Thankfully.
superhamzah85 8 months ago
@superhamzah85 Israel doesnt annex the West Bank, LIKE JORDAN DID, because that would destroy the JEWISH state. The fact is many of the "Palestinians" living in the West Bank only came there after 1948, thats the only explanation for the mathematically impossible population growth. Bethlehem is a historic Jewish center, lets not forget Jesus was a Jew. The Arabs rejected everything that didnt conform to "Dar al Islam", whether it be a Christian or Jewish state, the point is Jews were there first
TheIDFman 8 months ago
@TheIDFman
But you want to coexist with Arabs don't you?
Bethlehem is Arab. No amount of nonsense will change that,
superhamzah85 8 months ago
@superhamzah85 Yes Bethlehem is Arab, but as Mahmoud Abbas says, "any future Palestinian state will be Jew free", it is the Arabs that do not want to coexist. Lets not forget that Jordan prescribe sthe death penalty for selling property to JEWS (not Israelis). The occupation will continue until Israel has a guarantee that peace will occur, it is the mentality of any nation in the world to protect its citizens. Id the terrorism stops, the occupation will stop. We have already seen with Gaza...
TheIDFman 8 months ago
@TheIDFman Israel left Gaza and got rockets for 8 years, are you asking for Israel to do the same with the West Bank? What nation in the world would do such a thing?
TheIDFman 8 months ago
@TheIDFman
Rockets are irrelevant.
superhamzah85 8 months ago
@superhamzah85 What Israel wants to do is simply control the strategic part of the Jordan valley along with the Golan Heights so that Syria doesnt try their crap again, especially now that they have Iran as significcant backing aling with a nuclear threat. Relinquishing those areas is suicide, its just practicality, NOT COLONIALISM
TheIDFman 8 months ago
@TheIDFman
If you don't accept the reality that the region you are in is Arab, it will be bad for you. I promise you...the longer Israel continue occupation, the less chance it has. History doesn't lie.
superhamzah85 8 months ago
@superhamzah85 You re right History doesnt lie, we have seen that the more restrictions Israel implements, the safer its citizens become, and vice versa, so the occupation is only beneficial until the Arabs decide that they want to live alongside Israel. Then both people will have safety.
TheIDFman 8 months ago
@TheIDFman
They've decided it long ago - you still occupy. That is why they have to resist now. That is why you WILL lose - the longer a people have to fight for freedom - the worse it will be for you.
superhamzah85 8 months ago
@superhamzah85 Rockets are irrelevant when your women and children aren't the ones being terrorized by them. The Arabs have decided long ago that they want the Middle East to be Muslim. They have forgotten where their own religion stems from. Look at a map, tiny Israel surrounded by miles upon miles of Muslim Arab land and you are saying Israel are the occupiers? There is no occupation because there was never a "Palestine", there is only a people being used as pawns by corrupt Arab governments
TheIDFman 8 months ago
@TheIDFman
They don't WANT Arab lands, they ARE Arab lands. If they were NOT Arab lands, and wanted them to become Arab lands, I would be against them, just as much Zionists.
superhamzah85 8 months ago
@superhamzah85 They arent Arab lands, ask the Maronites of Lebanon or the Sudanese in Africa, the Kurds, LOL, thats like saying Spain was Arab land. NO! The Arabian Peninsula is Arab land, this land was seized and called "Arab Land". Arabs are not native to the Levant, they lost Spain after conquering and are now upset that they are losing the rest of their CONQUERED land
TheIDFman 7 months ago