"Faith Of Our Founding Fathers" by David C. Gibbs

[nsdtr01]

garbage history - only 9 signers of the Declaration died during the Revolution - none from fighting unless you consider Button Gwinnett who died fighting a duel - please get the facts correct and stop the propaganda

[anthonyehooker]

The man in this video IS an attorney. His name is David Gibbs. Founder of the Christian Law Association. You can't change history just because "you" say our history was fiction.

[nsdtr01]

America was not shaped by the fiction you present

[seekertrth]

James Madison,Father of the Constitution,Bill of Rights,,Founding Father;"The number, the industry and the morality of the priesthood& the devotion of the people have been manifesrtly increased by THE TOTAL SEPARTATION OF THE CHURCH FROM THE STATE."

Feb,1811,vetoed a bill to give Church funding for schools,etc b/c it violated the 1st amendment,Congress agreed. March,'11, vetoed giving a church governmt land,same reason. Congress debated,+ agreed.

[BereanBeacon1]

@seekertrth All 50 states have God in their preambles.

[seekertrth]

@BereanBeacon1 Which one? The Deist god, catholic, jewish, orthodox, unorthodox....?? It is usually defined as the "God of Nature;" thereby being non-denominational and acceptable even to athiests. Besides which it is irrelevant to whether one denomination of any particular religion is the foundation of our country. Furthermore, there is an unsurrmountable mountain of evidence that is contrary to your revisionist history, despite any irrational, deceptive rationale u will no doubt attempt.

[seekertrth]

@BereanBeacon1 Also, just that one quote and contributing / related facts clearly show that we are founded as a secular nation. You have every right to worship as you will but have NO legitimate claim of having religious grounds as the foundation of the nation.

[ngonea]

@seekertrth - watch?v=UnKf9sgo59I&feature=re­lated

[ReinaValera1865]

this only proves this scum bucket david gibbs is a jesuit implant that only defends pedophiles and crooked pastors and teaches all manners of bolony!!

[BereanBeacon1]

@ReinaValera1865 You must be referring to the ACLU. Check out their defense of NAMBLA, North American Man/Boy Love Association at no charge.

[nsdtr01]

the Christian Law Assoc does not believe in facts - can you trust them?

[radiootoo]

NO RELIGIOUS TEST for ANY holder of public office in America! THAT's the Constitution; NO religious test!

[Imaginefree69]

"During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the Clergy, ignorance and servility in the laity, in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution."

- James Madison

"Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise."

- James Madison, fourth president and father of the Constitution

"I am no Christian."

- Ethan Allen

Stop lying.

[AllKnowingCreator]

@Imaginefree69 Father of the constitution also wrote, " we hold these truths to be self evident that all men are created equally and endowed by their creator." Creator i guess is not God but darwinism at its finest?

[hatemorethanyou999]

David Barton has a BA from Oral Roberts "University." He is NOT an Attorney! He is also NOT a historian! Why are some Christians so willing to lie about these things. God does not need this kind of help!

[nsdtr01]

Atty Gibbs please state the correct facts: James Madison never attended the Second Continental Congress - only 9 signers died before Oct 1781 which was the end of fighting. None were killed while fighting.

[WILLTHEWGMAN]

US liberty is granted first by our Creator at birth & only recognized & upheld by the US Constitution as a birth-right as such. Why, because if mere men or documents alone granted you liberty only a mere man or document can take it away! This distinction of American Liberty is why All men are created equal, evolution surly does not teach this but Christianity does. The basic notion of American liberty & freedom for All is endowed by our Creator & historically a non-secular view. See D. of Indep!

[Pisces31660]

@WILLTHEWGMAN BULLSHIT..total LIES. propoganda and revision of history. god does not give liberty....besides if that were true then god would NOT have enslaved black or indians or women as MEN have done. and relgious men still do today to gay americans in the US mad muslims r still doing in the mid east. if god is the equalizer then his followers have been commiting heresy all these centuries. thats why i call u LIER

[AllKnowingCreator]

@Pisces31660 Well, first things first your education level clearly shows you cannot think critically let alone for yourself. It's sad people like you think stuff like seperation of church and state are in the constitution when in fact the amendment only bars the national government from being involved in religion. You might want to also invest about 30$ on books and learn the true facts about our founders might let you in on a few lies you have been taught.

[Pisces31660]

@AllKnowingCreator first of all i hold 2 masters degrees... one of which is in Theology.. second in Psychology. trust me america is not a Christian nation.. it is secular. u can try to rewrite history but you religious zealots want to destroy freedom for your twisted interpretation of God' will. No surprise that as a self proclaimed so called christian you call other's names n insults. crazy christians. so fucked up mind n religion. no different than the mad muslims.

[AllKnowingCreator]

@Pisces31660 I dont care how many fucking degrees you have. When you are taught bold faced lies. If they were so secular why were the founding documents BASED FROM Deutoronomy. talk about your masters and you cannot even explain away "endowed by their creator." The real fact is you have no masters you have no educational back ground and you probably read books with no sources. You are nothing short of a complete liar about your education and nothing more than a joke when it comes to history.

[Brucev7]

by solemn acts of devotion to God Almighty. It ought to be solemnized with pomp and parade, with shows, games, sports, guns, bells, bonfires, and illuminations, from one end of this continent to the other, from this time forward forever more.[6]”

John Adams

[Brucev7]

“The second day of July, 1776, will be the most memorable epoch in the history of America. I am apt to believe that it will be celebrated by succeeding generations as the great anniversary festival. It ought to be commemorated as the day of deliverance, cont'd

[blardosplats]

How weak must Christians be these days, that they must cling to recent documents, and not their own?

[RainhadoCanto4]

Our founding fathers were made of a different cloth, its threads woven tightly together, its strength to withstand many a storm!

Glenn Beck has begun a series called Founders Friday, every Friday to portray one of them. He began last night with Samuel Adams, who was DIRT POOR, who as soon as he was given a slave as a "gift," set him or her free!!

They passed a collection plate so he could have a new suit, other than the red one, his only one! He was a staunch believer in God, in Christ!!

[AtlasShruggery]

Can one of you Bible-thumping Republican Teabaggers please show us where God or Jesus is mentioned in the US Constitution?

[TouchOfGreatness]

@AtlasShruggery Christianity is not in the constitution, nor is religion (except where is says religion cannot be used as a test for office). I guess the founders intended it to be a godless constitution (since they were great writers and we know they did not 'forget' god).

[PatriotWalker76]

@AtlasShruggery God and Jesus were referred to so often, do you critics really think Their names needed to be in the Constitution? Read the books Miracle at Philadelphia and 7 Miracles that Saved America.

[BereanBeacon1]

Parents should sue the schools in America for product liability concerning their students being taught the false history of America. See the link with the title, WE ARE AMERICANS by Sam Gipp

[toiteman]

In the beginning of the contest with Britain, when we were sensible of danger, we had daily prayers in this room for Divine protection. Our prayers, Sir, were heard, and they were graciously answered do we imagine we no longer need His assistance? [Constitutional Convention, Thursday June 28, 1787]

[jo282271]

The thing that sets the American Christian apart from all other people in the world is that he would rather die on his feet before he will live on his knees.

-George Washington

[gtbob12]

Is he seriously making America a bacronym?

[MrXZodiacInfinitY]

"The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion." Treaty of Tripoli, article 11 - John Adams

[Brucev7]

@MrXZodiacInfinitY “The propitious smiles of Heaven can never be expected on a nation that disregards the eternal rules of order and right which Heaven itself has ordained.” George Washington’s first Inaugural address

[MrXZodiacInfinitY]

@Brucev7 Inaugural address is not a legal document and law like the Treaty of Tripoli. This was a statement of George Washington's personal beliefs. Which under the secular government and constitution that he was a part of creating, he could freely express said beliefs. So, what's your point? By the way, those words are not incompatible with a deist point of view. It's important to remember that most of our forefathers were deists. Some deists do recognize heaven or an afterlife.

[Brucev7]

@MrXZodiacInfinitY Not the issue. Various F.Fathers made similar statements. It's an outward sign of what beliefs they held, the influence, vision, acknowledgment of the need for God for the Nation to succeed and remain.

[MrXZodiacInfinitY]

@Brucev7 Still though, they recognized that it wasn't necessary for the nation to be founded as a christian nation, despite what their personal beliefs were. It really doesn't matter what any of the F Fathers personal beliefs were. In the end, they founded a secular nation where anybody could be free to worship whatever god they so choose. A nation that is not allowed by the constitution to favor one religion over another, even though it has done so many times anyway when it really shouldn't.

[Brucev7]

@MrXZodiacInfinitY Yes, and unfortunately in post modern times, Islam which has very violent and oppressive ideas and teachings and other false religions which preach the self over God, which has been highly destructive to families and marriages, the foundation of society, morals and ethics which is leading to a deterioration of the America.

[MrXZodiacInfinitY]

@Brucev7 Actually, all religions have violent and oppressive teachings. It's just that most other religions (including christianity) have already gone through their dark ages. Right now happens to be a time when Islam is in its dark-ages. I don't think that all the problems with American morality and ethics can just be chalked up to false religions and islam. Someday, hopefully islam will become a little more liberal like christianity has. Although, there is still way to many fundamentalists.

[Brucev7]

@MrXZodiacInfinitY And it all boils down not to an organization but to individual choices. Good or evil. God gives humans free will and they know the difference between right and wrong. And too often they don't choose what is good. Selfish.

[MrXZodiacInfinitY]

@Brucev7 I agree, all except for that free will is god given and that people have different definitions of what good and evil actually is. I agree that people are naturally selfish.

[Brucev7]

@MrXZodiacInfinitY Good. Having the indwelling of the HS leads that one to know discernment.

[MrXZodiacInfinitY]

@Brucev7 I definitely do not have or want the HS in me. You do mean Holy Spirit, correct?

[Brucev7]

@MrXZodiacInfinitY What do have to loose?

[MrXZodiacInfinitY]

@Brucev7 My sanity. Because I'd be believing in ghosts.

[Brucev7]

@MrXZodiacInfinitY i do not believe in all honesty that you believe that.

[MrXZodiacInfinitY]

@Brucev7 Well, I'm sorry because I do. I honestly believe that there is no such thing as the holy ghost. Jesus is a myth and god doesn't exist.

[Brucev7]

@MrXZodiacInfinitY  That's too bad because you seem like someone who questions what they believe. The amount of evidence is copious.

[MrXZodiacInfinitY]

@Brucev7 I do question what I believe. Christians and most theists do not. That's why you think there is a copious amount of evidence for your beliefs. But there is no good evidence to suggest that a god exists or that jesus was a real person. But I don't have time to educate you on the matter. Why don't you go do some research and find out there is no contemporary evidence that suggests that Jesus was real and who he said he was.

[Brucev7]

@MrXZodiacInfinitY Ah, but once you've opened your mind you will see. Thousands of years of evidence. I have studied for years. A plethora of information, historical, manuscripts, archeological, geographical and discoveries are being made every year. Amazing! See, most of y'all do not know about this because you've never sought this, classes or read about all of this.

[MrXZodiacInfinitY]

@Brucev7 I have an open mind, but not too open, otherwise my brain would fall out. Actually, the scientific community is well of aware of so-called "scientists" preaching creationism. I'm well aware of Kent Hovind & Answers in Genesis. Its all a bunch of bologna that no prestigious scientist would ever support.There are out right lies, bad science, and false assertions all over the place. I'm going to go ahead and guess that you think your beliefs are backed by science. That is supremely foolish

[Brucev7]

@MrXZodiacInfinitY If you support the holes, gaps in Darwinism, evolution, I question your "openess,"

[MrXZodiacInfinitY]

@Brucev7 That's because there are no holes or gaps in the theory. It is been confirmed by observation and evidence year after year after year to be true by the entire scientific community. Evolution is a fact that you can observe happening in micro organisms. The theory of evolution is what explains the mechanisms behind evolution. Those mechanisms are called natural selection and artificial selection. Here visit this site and learn something that is actually accepted as science.

[Brucev7]

@MrXZodiacInfinitY You can't be serious. Missing fossils. Birds can't be horses.

[Brucev7]

@MrXZodiacInfinitY Aha! "In theory." It takes your faith. Beliefs, religion believing in the beginning of llfe and/or how life has "evolved" but any scientist will tell you, Newton's Third Law of Thermodynamics or Entropy, life is devolving or Deteriorating.

[PatriotWalker76]

@MrXZodiacInfinitY Founding Father, Patrick Henry

“It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great

...nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians, not on

religions, but on the gospel of Jesus Christ!”

Of course, you are correct. The Christian religion and other churches in the time of the Founding Fathers were corrupted and lacked continuing revelation. But the Founders believed in the purest truth, Jesus Christ.

[MrXZodiacInfinitY]

@PatriotWalker76 But they never put Jesus Christ in the constitution. It's brilliant really. They could still be strong christians in their quotes and daily lives, but still decided it was best to found a secular government so they could have the freedom to say whatever they wanted about the government that they just founded.

[alltiedup217]

I find it strange that you say the U.S. is a christian nation?What do you mean by christainRomanCatholic.,Protes­tant.,

Episcopalians, Methodists, Lutherans ,By about the year 2042, non-Christians will outnumber the Christians in the U.S.

[alltiedup217]

"God is an essence that we know nothing of. Until this awful blasphemy is got rid of, there will never be any liberal science in the world."

John Adams

[alltiedup217]

Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, imprisoned; yet we have not advanced an inch towards uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one half the world fools, and the other half hypocrites. To support roguery and error all over the earth." - "Notes on Virginia"

jefferson

[alltiedup217]

The New Testament gives clear instructions to Christians on how to behave when ruled under a monarchy, as were the Founders.

1 Peter 2:13: "For the Lord's sake accept the authority of every human institution, whether of the emperor as supreme, or of governors, as sent by him to punish those who do wrong and to praise those who do right."

[alltiedup217]

The Christian attempts to put prayer into schools run directly counter to biblical teachings. Jesus said prayer should be a private affair devoid of public display: "And when you pray, you must not be like the hypocrites; But when you pray, go into your room (or closet.) and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret..." (Matthew 6:5-6

[RockieRaccoon13]

Touche :)

[TouchOfGreatness]

Madison and Jefferson - two freethinking deists that are almost absolute opposites of the Christian fundamentalists of today that want to mix religion and the state.

[RockieRaccoon13]

So there are other people out there that actually realize the difference? Good to know. There needs to be more.

[HitodamaKyrie]

What the fuck...?

[88888888MJP]

My prayer tonight is that those that dont know Jesus Christ as Savior will come to know Him --before He returns--because then -Every Knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord.

[JohnnyReb777]

Dear Sir: Glory be to the man that did this video, Because it is time for all Americans, to go back to their roots, and start reading there Bible's and start praying again, And really learn what this countries founding fathers really belive and fought for .

[RockieRaccoon13]

AMERICA

R - Religion, One nation under God.---"God" not being the Christian God, but whatever one identifies as God. That whole freedom of religion thing, ya know.

A - Achivement by the Bible---WHAT THE FUCK?!!?!?! Christianity isn't this nation's religion. So why would we consult a Christian book?

George Washington in Treaty of Tripoli, "The Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion".

[TIAAVENDEALANTIN]

no statement in Article XI of that treaty can be attributed to Washington (the treaty did not arrive in America until months after he left office); Washington never saw the treaty; it was not his work; no statement in it can be ascribed to him.

[TIAAVENDEALANTIN]

It would also be absurd to suggest that President Adams (under whom the treaty was ratified in 1797) would have endorsed or assented to any provision which repudiated Christianity. In fact, while discussing the Barbary conflict with Jefferson, Adams declared: The policy of Christendom has made cowards of all their sailors before the standard of Mahomet. It would be heroical and glorious in us to restore courage to ours.

[TIAAVENDEALANTIN]

Furthermore, it was Adams who declared: The general principles on which the fathers achieved independence were. . . . the general principles of Christianity. . . . I will avow that I then believed, and now believe, that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God; and that those principles of liberty are as unalterable as human nature.

[TIAAVENDEALANTIN]

The Full quote is: As the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion as it has in itself no character of enmity [hatred] against the laws, religion or tranquility of Musselmen [Muslims] and as the said States [America] have never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, ...

[TIAAVENDEALANTIN]

it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries. Basically saying that we are not like the "Christian" nations of old and like those of Europe who have a hatred of the Muslims...

[TIAAVENDEALANTIN]

Here is a real Washington Quote "You do well to wish to learn our arts and ways of life, and above all, the religion of Jesus Christ. These will make you a greater and happier people than you are."

[alltiedup217]

"I think vital religion has always suffered when orthodoxy is more regarded than virtue. The scriptures assure me that at the last day we shall not be examined on what we thought but what we did." --- Benjamin Franklin

[TIAAVENDEALANTIN]

As to Jesus of Nazareth, my opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think the system of morals and His religion as He left them to us, the best the world ever saw or is likely to see. ~ Benjamin Frankin

[TIAAVENDEALANTIN]

Franklin**

[alltiedup217]

"Experience witnesseth that ecclesiastical establishments, instead of maintaining the purity and efficacy of religion, have had a contrary operation. During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What has been its fruits? More or less, in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution." James Madison, 1785

[alltiedup217]

"Shake off all the fears of servile prejudices, under which weak minds are servilely crouched. Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call on her tribunal for every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." --- Thomas Jefferson,

[TIAAVENDEALANTIN]

I am a Christian in the only sense in which He wished anyone to be: sincerely attached to His doctrines in preference to all others. The practice of morality being necessary for the well being of society, He [God] has taken care to impress its precepts so indelibly on our hearts that they shall not be effaced by the subtleties of our brain. We all agree in the obligation of the moral principles of Jesus and nowhere will they be found delivered in greater purity than in His discourses. ~ T.J.

[TIAAVENDEALANTIN]

I have sometimes thought there could not be a stronger testimony in favor of religion or against temporal enjoyments, even the most rational and manly, than for men who occupy the most honorable and gainful departments and [who] are rising in reputation and wealth, publicly to declare their unsatisfactoriness by becoming fervent advocates in the cause of Christ; and I wish you may give in your evidence in this way ~ James Madison

[alltiedup217]

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances

[TouchOfGreatness]

Of course, this is where Jefferson rejects the trinity and all of the dogma of Christianity. If you want to spam, how about obeying the ninth commandment you so want to mix with state.

[TouchOfGreatness]

Ha, ha, you cut off Franklin just before he made his point. "But I apprehend it has received various corrupting changes, and I have, with most of the present dissenters in England, some doubts as to his divinity". Another case of bearing false witness!

[RockieRaccoon13]

Can you cite your source? I'm not saying that as a smart ass, but for the simple fact that I searched but couldn't find anything stating it. And I want to read it.

[TIAAVENDEALANTIN]

from a letter to Ezra Stiles, March 9, 1790: Here is my Creed: I believe in one God, Creator of the Universe. That He governs it by his Providence. That he ought to be worshiped. That the most acceptable Service we can render to him, is doing Good to his other Children.

[TIAAVENDEALANTIN]

That the Soul of Man is immortal, and will be treated with Justice in another Life respecting its Conduct in this. These I take to be the fundamental Principles of all sound Religion, and I regard them as you do, in whatever Sect I meet with them. As to Jesus of Nazareth, my Opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think the System of Morals and his Religion as he left them to us, the best the World ever saw, or is likely to see;

[TIAAVENDEALANTIN]

but I apprehend it has received various corrupting Changes, and I have with most of the present Dissenters in England, some Doubts as to his Divinity: tho' it is a Question I do not dogmatise upon, having never studied it, and think it needless to busy myself with it now, when I expect soon an Opportunity of knowing the Truth with less Trouble.

[TIAAVENDEALANTIN]

I see no harm however in its being believed, if that Belief has the good Consequence as probably it has, of making his Doctrines more respected and better observed, especially as I do not perceive that the Supreme takes it amiss, by distinguishing the Believers, in his Government of the World, with any particular Marks of his Displeasure.

[TIAAVENDEALANTIN]

I shall only add respecting myself, that having experienced the Goodness of that Being, in conducting me prosperously thro' a long Life, I have no doubt of its Continuance in the next, tho' without the smallest Conceit of meriting such Goodness.

[RockieRaccoon13]

You quoted Ben Franklin's letter to Ezra Stiles, not the source that says Washington had nothing to do with the Treaty of Tripoli. Where's that from?

I know what Franklin said, I'm not saying he didn't believe in God or Jesus--it was Jesus divinity he didn't believe in. By all means, they formed the country with the intent that people would be treated as Jesus had treated people by the principles he had established.

[Yankeeprepper]

You would have to reject the TRUTH on your accord to deny that America was founded as a christian nation.

One day, whether you like it or not, you will kneel before Jesus Christ and say "You are Lord".

And with that reality, you will realize without a doubt, that you have been a fool on purpose for your whole life and in the end........ very insignificant.

[alltiedup217]

well for one its not the truth and no i wont

they went out of there way to make sure that jesus and god were not a part of it.

separation of church and state First Amendment to the United States Constitution, which reads, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof . .

[TIAAVENDEALANTIN]

right...is says nothing about separation of Church and State...is just says that Congress can not make a law ESTABLISHING a national religion...like all the nations of Europe had at that time...England had the Church of England...most of the rest were Roman Catholic...In fact the Congress was the first group to publish a Bible in English in the US and they made it with the sole purpose of being used in schools...Read your history...

[alltiedup217]

"As I understand the Christian religion, it was, and is, a revelation. But how has it happened that millions of fables, tales, legends, have been blended with both Jewish and Christian revelation that have made them the most bloody religion that ever existed?" --- John Adams, letter to F.A. Van der Kamp, Dec. 27, 1816

[TIAAVENDEALANTIN]

John Adams is probably the last one you want to start quoting to make your point...

[alltiedup217]

The divinity of Jesus is made a convenient cover for absurdity. Nowhere in the Gospels do we find a precept for Creeds, Confessions, Oaths, Doctrines, and whole cartloads of other foolish trumpery that we find in Christianity."

Adams

[alltiedup217]

"Have you considered that system of holy lies and pious frauds that has raged and triumphed for 1,500 years?"

"This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it."

John Adams again.

[TIAAVENDEALANTIN]

Right...John had issues with the established religious systems of the day but not with the foundations of those religions...I don't call myself a Christian because previous and current people who do use that term have done things which are totally contrary to the teachings of Yeshua. [Jesus] I have lots of problems with things that churches do and say but my beliefs aren't based or founded on their teachings.

[TIAAVENDEALANTIN]

My hopes of a future life are all founded upon the Gospel of Christ and I cannot cavil or quibble away [evade or object to]. . . . the whole tenor of His conduct by which He sometimes positively asserted and at others countenances [permits] His disciples in asserting that He was God. ~John Adams

[TIAAVENDEALANTIN]

I said that John was a bad one to quote to make a point because he constantly quoted scripture in his letters to his wife as well as on the floor while drafting and voting for the Constitution etc. To try and make a case that Adams was nonspiritual is naive at best. He was right when he stated that Christianity is one of the bloodiest religions but not because the doctrine is flawed but because those who run the church are flawed. Yeshua clearly teaches to love your enemy , not kill them etc.

[alltiedup217]

umm if you mean the god of the bible ..no he does not.Deuteronomy 13:13-19 (kill all nonbelivers,Deuteronomy 13:7-12 kill anyone in another religion, They are fully aware of God's death penalty Romans 1:24-32

I can go on about god tell other to kill for him the bible is full of that kinda stuff

[alltiedup217]

Make ready to slaughter his sons for the guilt of their fathers; Lest they rise and posses the earth, and fill the breadth of the world with tyrants. (Isaiah 14:21)"Defile the Temple!" the LORD commanded. "Fill its courtyards with the bodies of those you kill! Go!" So they went throughout the city and did as they were told." (Ezekiel 9:5-7)

[TIAAVENDEALANTIN]

Right,but that's not Christianity, ie. based on the teachings of Yeshua,those were one time commands given to Israel, you can argue that it's the same God, and that would be true. I'm not here to argue God's case for him or to defend him...I have an understanding of why such commands were given throughout the Old Testament, and how when viewed on their own contradict any claims of a good and loving God, but it would take me pages to begin to put them in context. If you want me to send me a msg

[TIAAVENDEALANTIN]

The only point I'm trying to make here is that it was the founding fathers wish to keep the Federal government out of religion and not religion out of the government...this can be proven by the writings of almost all of the signers of the Deceleration of Independence, the Constitution and the members of congress and even the Supreme Court for over the first 100 yrs of this country

[TIAAVENDEALANTIN]

just one example then I'm done for the night...the Supreme Court of the United States. In the case of Holy Trinity Church vs. United States, 143 U.S. 471, that Court, after mentioning various circumstances, added, these and many other matters which might be noticed, add a volume of unofficial declarations to the mass of organic utterances that this is a Christian nation. Can supply many more if wanted...

[combatvetlawstudent]

@TIAAVENDEALANTIN ooooh please give me more examples!!! Please with pure honey on top!

[alltiedup217]

well in the new test.they are very clear about following the laws that were set down in the old.Matthew 5:18-19 ,Luke 16:17 ,2 Timothy 3:16 , Peter 20-21,John7:19,I'm sure you can rationalize the horror's of the vile book,it's easyer than say'in you think it might be wrong.

[NewAmericaNow]

What if at the end of your life you stand before someone else perhaps Mohammed or Mother Nature, V

Zues or Bhudda and he/she says to you, "I am all things to all people, It is you that has limited my words and my appearence but I will not hold it against you". What would you say? People are so sure they know god and his intentions yet they don't even know what is in the heart of their fellow man. People that are always certain are often wrong.

[Yankeeprepper]

I am absolutely CERTAIN.....one of us is right and one of us is wrong and that we will find out.

[NewAmericaNow]

Thank you my friend we will find out someday. Although I don't think that this point is quite as important to our Creator as what kind of life we have led regardless of our religion or belief system. We can feel joy in the fact that we can have these peaceful disagreeances of these kinds in a country that Washington helped establish.Good luck to you.

[Hjernespreng]

America was not founded as a Christian nation.

[TheRationalthinker]

Worth watching, Youtube video: America's Heritage is NOT Christian: TRUE or FALSE

Resurrect the historical TRUTH! Stand UP, WE THE PEOPLE!

[cc2009dotus]

Nebraska State Coordinator, Wee The People, CC2009

[MegaSinic]

So were these "MEN" who signed the "DOCUMENT" when there slaves asked for freedom

[jotomas2]

These men also signed the 1796 treaty with Tripoli which stated that the united states " is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion" It cant get much clearer than that.

[rollingthunder1982]

That phrase was added by a diplomat without permission...it was removed in an 1805 remake of the treaty.

[freethinknamerican]

From Thomas Jefferson's Bible:

"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the Supreme Being as his father, in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter."

[freethinknamerican]

From Jefferson's biography:

"...an amendment was proposed by inserting the words, 'Jesus Christ...the holy author of our religion,' which was rejected 'By a great majority in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and the Mohammedan, the Hindoo and the Infidel of every denomination.'"

[aliconti1964]

Benjamin Franklin: God governs in the affairs of man. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without his notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid? We have been assured in the Sacred Writings that except the Lord build the house, they labor in vain that build it. I firmly believe this. I also believe that, without His concurring aid, we shall succeed in this political building no better than the builders of Babel Constitutional Convention of 1787 | Orig. Manuscript

[aliconti1964]

*More Quotes of the Founding Father's*

John Adams:

"I have examined all religions, as well as my narrow sphere, my straightened means, and my busy life, would allow; and the result is that the Bible is the best Book in the world. It contains more philosophy than all the libraries I have seen." December 25, 1813 letter to Thomas Jefferson

"Without Religion this World would be Something not fit to be mentioned in polite Company, I mean Hell." [John Adams to Thomas Jefferson, April 19, 1817]

[aliconti1964]

*More Quotes of the Founding Father's*

John Adams:

"We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge, or gallantry, would break the strongest cords of our Constitution as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." --October 11, 1798

[aliconti1964]

*Quotes of the Founding Fathers*

John Adams and John Hancock:

We Recognize No Sovereign but God, and no King but Jesus! [April 18, 1775]

John Adams:

The general principles upon which the Fathers achieved independence were the general principals of Christianity I will avow that I believed and now believe that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God.

[AldinTheMad]

"He [Lincoln] was an avowed and open infidel, and sometimes bordered on atheism. He went further against Christian beliefs and doctrines and principles than any man I have ever heard"-John T. Stuart

"Lighthouses are more helpful than churches"-Ben Franklin "Christianity neither is, nor ever was, a part of the Common Law"-Jefferson

"Gouverneur Morris had often told me that General Washington believed no more of that system [Christianity] than did he himself."-Jefferson (private journal Feb. 1800)

[FTS0892]

yes i agree thats all propaganda fuck mindcontrol fuck all countries they are nothing than closed area and people are proud being locked !

[BenAliGtor]

Note to the unsuspecting:

Don't confuse the ChristianReich wingnut "Christian Law Association" with the Christian Legal Society- an organization of Christian law students and attorneys that has existed for almost half a century in the United States.

[PanDeism]

The Constitution was not pandeistic because Pandeism was then an unknown concept.... Pandeism is pandeistic....

[DeistReality]

They believed in the Creator of all! Please lets not degrade them by saying that they couldn't tell fact from fiction. Jesus was a Deist in our founding fathers minds not a mangod. The psalms is not a Christian book its a book of the gentiles. People who knew that God was real and knew that the only way to know God is through ?/His works found in the Creation. Thomas Paine drafted this document and he talks of Natures God! Jefferson wrote it down Paine is the author.

[DeistReality]

There can only be one truth when understanding our Maker. Thomas Paine the key founding father clearly shows this truth in his book Age of Reason.

To know God one needs to go to ?/His works that are found in the Creation. You people are putting your faith in the Jesus mangod theory which Mr.Paine in this same book proves is no longer even a theory.

Use your faith as just a steppingstone towards the realities of Deism ( God ). Faith is important,but it should never get in the way of truth.

[Iconoclastithon]

...cont...

...and even most of those were as in favor of securalism and humanism as the liberal theists,liberal christians, and deists{or in Jeffersons case- Agnostic-Deist} and against the imposition of Christianity or Christianity or any faith beeing given special privelage.

[Iconoclastithon]

The declaration was a deistic document, not a Christian one. The Constitution was a Atheistic document. America was founded by freethinkers{the founding fathers; smany of whom were Christians, but most fo these whom were liberally oriented Christian influenced by deistic and other rationalist thought to varrying degrees; and the most prominent of whom were non-christian liberal theists or outright Deists; there were few orthodox/fundamentalist xtians amongst them, and even most of those}

CONT..

[Iconoclastithon]

The declaration was a deistic document, not a Christian one. The Constitution was a Atheistic document. America was founded by freethinkers{the founding fathers; smany of whom were Christians, but most fo these whom were liberally oriented Christian influenced by deistic and other rationalist thought to varrying degrees; and the most prominent of whom were non-christian liberal theists or outright Deists; there were few orthodox/fundamentalist xtians amongst them, and even most of those}

CONT..

[Iconoclastithon]

...cont...

...and even most of those were as in favor of securalism and humanism as the liberal theists,liberal christians, and deists{or in Jeffersons case- Agnostic-Deist} and against the imposition of Christianity or Christianity or any faith beeing given special privelage.

[BenAliGtor]

"The 50 state constitutions included in their preambles the words: Almighty God, God, Creator, and Supreme Being."

Not all 50 states.

Moreover, it was ruled early in the 19th Century that the supremacy clause of the Constitution superceded the right of any state to establish a state religion for itself.

[BereanBeacon]

First Amendment -

Freedom of religion, speech, press, petition, and assembly. So far I have not advocated a religion. I am an enemy of all religions that promote "works" or being good enough according to religious dictates. The battle today is to keep religion from gaining power in America and over throwing the U.S. Constitution.

[BenAliGtor]

"The battle today is to keep religion from gaining power in America and over throwing the U.S. Constitution."

I couldn't agree more. Theocrats are the biggest danger to true freedom of religious exercise.

[BenAliGtor]

It should be noted that the Declaration has no standing whatsoever as to legal precedent. Moreover,there is nothing in the document that says anything about Jesus or the Christian faith.The Constitution, which along with all laws and treaties made in pursuance of it ARE the law of the land, makes no reference to God whatsoever beyond stating that the ratification was in "the year of our Lord 1789".

The Constitution notes that the source of governmental authority is "We the people". Not a deity.

[BereanBeacon]

I don't have a problem with what you wrote. And Jesus answering said unto them, Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's. And they marvelled at him. Mark 12:17

The 50 state constitutions included in their preambles the words: Almighty God, God, Creator, and Supreme Being.

[sammyseattle]

These were men who did not all believe in a Christian God. Many were Diests, look it up. To quote Benjamin Franklin, "Lighthouses are more helpful than churches."

Revising history is difficult, better luck next time.

[BereanBeacon]

You sir must be a product of America's failed public schools were brain washing is equal to or surpasses communist nations.

Benjamin Franklin desired to start a colony in Ohio with the Rev. George Whitefield to "facilitate the introduction of pure religion among the heathen" in order to show the Indians "a better sample of Christians than they commonly see in our Indian traders."

[sammyseattle]

Interesting that you invoke the term Christian.

[TouchOfGreatness]

This is a gross misrepresentation of the facts.

[2paacalipse]

riiiight how about hipocracy !

Nation built on ethnic cleansing of native americans which to this day you hold in reservations like animals in the zoo...

[BereanBeacon]

We aren't a perfect nation and have made mistakes, but compared to others, America freedoms are still superior. Those who did those things were not Bible believers and therefore not Christians according to the Bible. The Gospel is for all no matter where they may be and offers the free gift of God by the Lord Jesus Christ.

[goandfuckoff]

@2paacalipse

Don't be ridiculous. Native's are not 'held' anywhere; they are *allowed* to live in reservations, apart from the rest of the US and its laws, and go between the two as they see fit. You talk about hypocrisy, yet exhibit a complete inability to be truthful. What a jackass.

[2paacalipse]

youre a piece of shit Dave

[BereanBeacon]

A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh. Luke 6:45