All these groups that splinter off true Christianity do so because they take one or two Bible verses and base everything on that. Scripture always upholds itself but must be taken in its full context, not snippets.
"A human being occupies a totally unique place in the entire Universe: How you handle your MONEY(!!)...¨ So Money is what first came to his mind for the place of the human being in the Universe... now I understand you Rob.
Excuse me, I have to let the Spirit move my bowels now. If everything is spiritual, so must that be. And at least I'll be left with something for all my effort. Religion just gets stupider and stupider all the time. Another clown gets his 15 minutes of fame and gets paid for it. If religion is an ineradicable human impulse, it's not much of a compliment for humans.
Given time more people will discover that many of our medieval interpretations didn't reflect what the original biblical text meant. Rob just found that earlier and remains courageous. And not alone.
pt. 2..One has to challenge what they have been born into. Dig deep and find the Higher Inner Meanings and Truth. This is EXACTLY what Rob Bell has done. Consequently, he has come up with a great many High Valid Truths, in my opinion. And yes, it does not fit neatly into accepted narrow dogma, nor should it. Half of the NT was written by Rome not the Apostles. Blood and Brimstone? Try Greek..Kristos, whose sacrifice would save Souls for Hades and Tartarus (River of Fire) Sound familiar?
pt1 Any religion going out to the masses for millenia will be mangled badly. that is just how this world is set up. Noone is just going to be born into High Truths of God. The High Truths have to be hard won, thru sacrifice, suffering and an intense desire to put truth above all things, even social acceptability. Anyone can spout dogma that they were born into. What have you shown GOD? Raise me a Christian and "Jesus is Lord", raise me Buddhist, I'll spout fundamental Buddhism or Islam or..
New age is a corruption word. What others see as" New Age", many see as going back to the old ways and the simple teachings of Jesus. One can deny Mr. Bell but as many as disagree with him, twice as many will be lead to Jesus because of him. Amen and thank you for this post.<3
Sounds like that Snake?, in the Garden of Eden, "God says you will surely die? God really says you will die?" and Today: "Is there really a Hell? Hell,forever?" The Truth is with the Magnitude 9 earthquake in Japan, Past Quakes in China, New zealand, Sumatura, Phukit, Chili, killing millions, turmoil in the mid east, death around the globe, Satan knows time is short, is desperate, so here it is, his version of "Love" in sync with M. Jacksons "Heal the World" , while denying God's Word.
indeed you are a brave and courageous man .. I have always wanted nothing to do with religion , just listening to some of the judgments put forth here say,s it all , and yet this man bell dares to speak from his heart , where god dwells in all of us .. thx you ,really peace hemp
@jeremylopez7 Rob Bell only picks the few scriptures and twists them, wrongly interprets the Bible, and outward lies. If you do honest research, like others, you will realize Rob Bell is a false teacher...
@rickgigliotti not so, Rob actually see's the contradicting themes in the bible, he recognises the difference between the bible and the scripture....just because your translation says that most will burn in hell forever does not make it so, you are putting the idol of the bible before God"(who WILL have all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth)and who is the savior of ALL men, specially(not exclusively!)of believers"...Pauls words not mine...blessings.....:¬)
@k0smon Let's hope for your sake at least that you are right - I wouldn't like to be in your shoes if you are not. Actually I find the Bible explains just about everything that's going on in the world. Perhaps you are not reading it correctly. You have to bear in mind how long ago it was written, they didn't do text talk then.
@rmh31284 - hahahaha! Both John MacArthur and Franklin Graham have come out and said that your little douchey Bell is a false teacher and heretic! You lose, NewAge douchelick! And you spelled his name wrong too - one 'b' in Rob. Boing!
I wish all the preachers in the world would stop reading the scriptures. Just open your eyes and see. Open your mouths and breath the air and eat the food that comes out of the ground. Open your ears and listen to the sounds of nature. It's obvious that hell was invented by evil people to control people with fear. If you can't see that, then go put your nose back in a book called the "scriptures" and separate yourself from everything with the dead thoughts in a dead book.
@laejnaek There is indeed some lovely things in nature but open your eyes and tell me there is not already hell all around us and it doesn't appear to be God that is causing that just the things that he tells us are not good - greed, hate, malice etc etc. If there was nothing in it and if it is all fiction, why are people bothering to argue the case anyway? I don't hear such a fuss being made about Harry Potter.
I think this new age retard should read some real authors, like Sam Harris. What Rob Bell is peddling is nothing more than new age mumbo jumbo. What an idiot.
@gtrjunky It's interesting that you as right-wing conservative lunatic are perfectly in tune with atheist. Then of course, religious fundamentalism in chrisitanity is perfectly in stride with religious fundamentalism in Islam. they bouth espouse legalism, they both hate women and gays, the both love gun violence, and they both insist that if someone doesn't agree with them 100%, they are not a "true believer".
well... keep in mind hat as a non christian, I think the bible is nothing but a useless slave owners manual spoken by illiterate people, then written down hundreds of years later, edited, translated and generally mangled in every way possible. There is nothing in there that would indicate there really are gods, and if the christian god is real hes a fucking genocidal maniac who needs to be destroyed at all cost.
@aegisgfx Not so. Not NEW-AGE at all. Very old indeed. Love was a radical idea in Christ's time. It was all about punishment. He had to speak in "hellish" metaphors in order to convey his messages of turning away from hate and toward love. It's what got him killed. All the hate on this page alone verifies what Rob has said. His path is indeed the narrow one leading to salvation. You see, few will really choose love. The rest will just die and never be resurrected to anywhere.
And you are perfectly comfortable with that, I can tell. Any god that would burn his own children for ANY reason is an evil, immoral god and not deserving of worship. But do whats ever makes you feel good man, if knowing that 5 billion currently alive are going to burn for eternity because your god didn't get his message out there effectively, then more power to you I guess.
@aegisgfx 'member when u were a kid nd u'd be runnin around the house nd ur mom wud yell nd say STOP RUNNIN, she knew u cud eventually fall and hurt urself if u kept running like crazy! and thn u eventually fell and hurt urself! was it ur moms fault for not stopping u? Eeeh no! she warned U but it was your choice! u had 2 options obey nd avoid what was coming to u or fall nd hurt urself. u know the truth but its up to u how u live ur life and if u do bad or good .. dont blame GOd for ur mistakes
@aegisgfx How sad that you cant keep a normal conversation with someone without having the urge to insult! I think I would get a better feedback from a monkey than you! what a waste of human being!
@chanteuz1 you know I've never thought of it that way! Jesus said he didn't come to bring peace, but he came with a Sword.
sometimes you need to step up and have a backbone! meek doesn't mean to let people run over you all the time, the has to be a time when you need to get for real in order for people to listen and Comprehend.
It's kind of like going to Greece and you have to speak in their language in under for them to understand you. Thanks!
its like you are saying Kryptonite was Rare in Supermans time. Lol you fucking christ morons need to read books other than your ancient slave owners manual.
In Superman's time there was no kryptonite, and all lived a happy life free from crime because Spiderman was there to save them. And Zeus was lord of all the unicorns!! LOL!!!
@chanteuz1 What he teaches is not scriptural.If you want to follow a man that teaches what you want to hear instead of what the truth actually is,that is one thing.I would rather know and follow the truth.
Rob Bell teaches that hardly anyone is going to Hell.That is strange because that is not what my Bible says.He is a false teacher.Stay as far away from this man as you can and his teachings.
@noahsark1962 It is okay to listen to his teachings, but you must be critical of them. It's not like we should treat the teachings of Rob Bell like the plague. Like he says in Velvet Elvis, the conversation itself can be good.
@Shojahan Who said I was homophobic, or any of those things you accuse me of? All I did was quote one verse! I don't fear god for what he might do to me, God loves me. I fear him because God is an awesome, he created the universe, he is holy and perfect. I am not. When you meet God you will fear him, we all will. But God's message to us is love. You might disagree with me, but that's no grounds to tell me to build a "hell house", what ever it is. Where is the gentleness and respect?
@mikhailit I apologise for causing offence. If it's any excuse, I have been debating Conservatrons so long, I have inadvertently been drawn into their reactionary Duality, and mistook you for one of them. I agree with you that Fear of God is about Reverence and Respect, not the Fear of Punishment, on which these Right-Wing Lunatics build their Hell Houses to win teenagers over to their False Gospel of Hate, “making them twice the son of hell!” Search 'Hell Houses' to see what I'm referring to.
@1aliveinchrist spot on. Proverbs 19:23 - The fear of the Lord leads to Life and whoever has it rests satisfied. People might not like it, but it's everywhere in scripture.
@mikhailit The Fear of the Lord is not the same as homophobia or the fear of women, the fear of Mexicans, the fear of socialism, the fear they're coming to tak my guns away, or god forbid, make me pay my taxes, or the fear that government money might be going to Black people. You are not at all "resting satisfied" but are in bondage to deep-seated anxiety and decieved into thinking that you're a christian. Go build another Hell House you Fear-worshipping Conservatron.
@philipatoz Your Legalistic Ideology: ”always consider its immediate context”? This makes it specific to Culture and makes it Irrelevant to Us. “NEVER give more weight to less clear passages when you have many parallel and much clearer ones addressing the same or similar subject”? You are reading in the Natural and Spiritually Illiterate. “Never read more into the text than it actually says”? You are only seeing in the Flesh and not in the Spirit.|You are in legalistic bondage, listen to Bell.
@philipatoz Passages that are “less clear” to you are because of your Flesh-orientated legalistic ultraliteralism. The Unspiritual Man can not see like the Spiritual Man. Conservative values are Satanic. The Spirit of the Word must contradict the Flesh of the Word when its Flesh has been corrupted by the satanically deceieved, also known as Conservative 'christians'. It is you who is uncomfortable with Scripture because it defies the idolatrous Legalism you depend on for comfort instead of Jesus
@jaggatorpm He does seem to always wear black, but I've ruled out him being gothic. He's just a hipster with trendy glasses. Maybe he has a fondness for the 'Man in Black' himself.
Any theologian or Bible scholar worth his salt will tell you that to correctly interpret scripture you must 1) always consider its immediate context; 2) you NEVER give more weight to less clear passages when you have many parallel and much clearer ones addressing the same or similar subject; 3) Never read more into the text than it actually says. Bell is putting much more weight on the less clear and then he even speculates AND CONTRADICTS much scripture to counter those he finds uncomfortable.
@philipatoz “Any bible scholar worth his salt”? You mean any right wing conservative lunatic. You are advocating Ultraliteralism which is opposed to Jesus' teaching. When the disciples thought Jesus was literally talking about bread, they too were applying the 3 Legalistic principles you have arrogantly outlined in your Evangelical Ignorance. But Jesus rebuked them as he would now rebuke you, “Are you so DULL”? Dull Fool, listen to Rob Bell, he is interpreting spiritually as Jesus said to.
@philipatoz After manfully wading through GL Archer's gormless drivel, his “scholarship” leads me to suspect that you as Archer's devoted disciple would be not so much a Mr 95%, but more of a Mr. 80%. Archer's heresies are most thorough indeed, the depth of his unbelief has obviously afflicted you with spiritual trauma, but really there are no “Bible Difficulties” if you can bring yourself to trust in God (instead of Legalism) with every textual contradiction that he has placed in his Word.
Oh Mr Archer, where does it say that Heli was the father of Mary? Absolutely nowhere! Stop adding to Scripture, Mr Archer. Oh Mr Archer, has a single credible scholar ever agreed to these “ancient parlance” speculations of yours to confirm Jesus was in the grave 3 days and 3 nights? Absolutely not! Stop subtracting from Scripture, Mr Archer. But do not Fear, Mr. Conservative, God can still have mercy on your unregenerate soul and all those you've led astray into Legalist Heresy too.
@philipatoz I still haven't even got to your 11 Questions, but after 10 posts today, that's enough for one weekend day, but don't worry I'll be back tomorrow, here in public as you wish. In the meantime, consider your own situation: Have you obeyed the law of “repent and believe in Jesus”? (Legalists MUST fulfill this law 100%, 99% not good enough) Of course you haven't. Your idolatrous worship of guitar culture, your life ruled by Fear, you know not Jesus, you're in same boat as everyone else
@philipatoz “Those who believe and follow Jesus are saved and others are not”? Stop relying on this Legalism which will only send you to Death and depend on Christ's Grace and Mercy instead of denying it. He died to win it. Do not legalise the gospel, that's how Satan disempowers it. It is objectifying Christ, that is OT paganism. How can you Trust an inanimate object? That is the false Christ, a dead one, a bound one. That is why you have Fear and not Love, and that is why you are a legalist.
@philipatoz This “understanding” of yours is just a euphemism for “traditional legalism”. As for the “millions” who are decieved by it, it's okay, no need for Fear, Grace is adequate covering for “simpletons”. You don't have to be dumb to be decieved, just proud, conservative, and legalistic, but God's Love can cover all this. In your pride you think it's all those Jehovah's Witnesses, and the Mormons who are decieved, while you have the “truth”. But Mercy for them means Mercy for you!
@philipatoz You are not trying to “lovingly encourage others to accept Jesus and his love” at all. You are trying to get them to accept the same Legalism that was imposed on you so that you like them could be controlled through Fear by your apostate conservative church.. When you Pharisees win a convert, you only make them “twice the son of Hell” because instead of releasing them into Freedom in Christ you only send them further into bondage. Built any new 'Hell Houses' lately?
@philipatoz God is not the legalistic absolutist that you are. You're just projecting your legalism. The Tree of Knowledge of Good & Evil is the black/white fruit of absolutism that you are eating, being fed to you by the Serpent. The Tree of Life, the tree of the coming Kingdom, is wholeness, not duality. The angel in Revelations has his head under the covering of a rainbow, it's colours has infinite shades from One Light, no darkness. Absolutism would render injustices, God is infinitely Just.
There are those who think they are much smarter than others, that their education, etc. makes them superior thinkers. Such typically disdains others they dismiss as the "dull masses." Many of these pseudo -intellectuals insist that millions of "simpletons" have wrongly believed in the classic understanding that those who believe and follow Jesus are saved and others are not. Yet the Bible was written in such a way so that a poor, uneducated dirt farmer can know what he must do to be saved!
So was the Quran. Point? The masses ARE dull. And this is no more evident in the fact that spirituality is hopelessly splintered and divided. This is strong evidence that spirituality itself is inherently subjective, which leads rational people to a more agnostic slant.
@craigblack1234, my point isn't about whether the Bible is true - that's a different discussion (though I obviously believe it IS!). My point is elitists and pseudo-intellectuals often assert the Bible's key theological points are unclear - especially those referring to salvation, what it says is required to receive salvation, and what the consequences are of rejecting Jesus. Such people assert that only the highly educated and theologians can properly understand it. It's written so ALL men can!
@philipatoz I am humble in education, no seminary. Apologists are the pseudo-intellectuals you speak of, using their status in Lunatic Christianity to mislead & deceive the lay-people into thinking the Word of God conforms to legalistic neatness. Their conclusions deny Scripture As It Has Been Revealed. “The blind leading the blind”! Even a poor, uneducated dirt farmer would see what remains Hidden from you: what God says He will do is not always the same as what He then does or will do.
@philipatoz It is you and your legalising apologists who refuse to accept the very words of Jesus. “No staff, no sandals” is what he said. Yet you legalists advocate subtracting from his Word to make them say the opposite for the sake of legalistic conformity. HOW TWISTED and Satanic! The Bible is worthless to you because you are only reading the parts that conform to your legalistic state. Try putting Jesus above your conservative traditions of men and your conservatron church. Love, not Fear.
@philipatoz “Meaningless blather & conjecture”? That's what you label the message of Grace? You realise that under Legalism, you've committed the unforgivable sin, as this is bordering on blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, and now you could be GOING TO HELL!! Fortunately, God isn't the legalist you are, and may still show you Mercy, as much as you keep rejecting it. Not understanding the gospel, you are like the Athenians who dismissed the apostle Paul with “What is this babbler trying to say?”
@Shojahan, you spout meaningless blather and conjecture. YOU are the one who refuses to accept the very words of Jesus. And, incredibly, you call the very ones who lovingly encourage others to accept Jesus, His love, and eternity with Him "evil" and "legalistic?" How twisted! Your problem is you don't like God's clear absolutes. You insist He will accept those who reject Him - despite countless Scriptures clearly stating otherwise. The Bible is worthless to you - you might as well not have it.
The reason God's Love can win is because the Cross has won that Option. But that doesn't automatically mean everyone will go to Life. The complexity of the entire Bible shows, however, that God can exercise that Option if he wants to. Or he can still send everyone to Death -including "Christians" (He's no Legalist). Or he can send some to Life and some to Death. But the point is it's all entirely up to God. The theme of the entire Bible throughout shows that He does prefer Mercy over Judgement.
The idea of Trusting in Love of God for salvation as opposed to “I'm a Christian because I said the sinner's prayer and accepted Jesus, and everyone else goes to Hell” legalism is extremely uncomfortable to Conservatives who don't realise the same Mercy God can show to non-believers is the same that can save them. Speak to any Conservatron and it's clear that they are no Christian, they are only deceived into thinking they are. So why rail against Grace of God? It's the only hope you have.
@Shojahan It is tough to generalize across the "conservatrons" out there (thank you for the new term, I will be using it fondly). Especially when it comes to grace and their own relationship with God. I suppose it's often seen in the difference between those who 'had been saved' and 'are always being saved' by God.
@TheCrescentStudios 1st - what on earth do you mean by a "conservatron"? 2nd - What do you claim their relationship with God is? Are you judging a motive? A heart? If so, only God can do that, but just want to clarify.
@1aliveinchrist A Conservatron varies from moderate to extreme right wing lunatic who believes that God is Fear, not God is Love. As all Conservatism is ultimately rooted in Absolute Fear, they cling to Religious Legalism for assurance instead of Jesus Christ. They also like clinging to their guns.
@Shojahan Thank you for your description. Perhaps you might want to look at all the generalizing going on there though? What do you make of this verse -- Proverbs 1:7 "The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction." We are also told to fear the one who has control of our bodies and souls. Matt:10:28 says that we are to "fear him which is able to destroy both body and soul in hell." Fearing God is vital, though it doesn't mean He isn't merciful.
@1aliveinchrist My expression is unclear, yes, but I'm not attributing “God is Fear” from “Fear him who is able cast body and soul into Hell”, but rather “Perfect Love drives out all Fear, because Fear has to do with Punishment”. This fits in with the previous quote and its reference to Hell. Now why would apparently-christian Conservatrons be so Frightened, unless they weren't still in bondage to “Man's Fear”: The Fear of Death, which is the Root of All Fears? As it also says in Proverbs (cont)
@Shojahan (Cont) God is to be feared, no doubt. But, we also "love Him because He first loved us." 1 John 4:19 We love him, because he first loved us." Do you not see? God loves us, but that doesn't mean we that He isn't a Holy, Just, and Perfect God who Himself says that we are to FEAR HIM. God Bless.
@1aliveinchrist >>> “Man's Fear (death of the flesh) is a Snare [trap or binding]” Therefore Conservatrons are in bondage to Legalism, which makes them trust in their Fear-Inspired Theological Doctrine Of 'Assurance', instead of Jesus Christ, for salvation. Their Chief Obsessions are therefore of the Flesh; an unscriptural fixation on “traditions of men” such as marriage & family values, Flesh Death, such as abortion and euthanasia, and the less said about Creepy Virginity Pledging, the better.
@Shojahan I honestly have no idea what you are talking about. The Doctrines of Grace, which include "blessed assurance," which we KNOW we can have in Chirst, is not a faith in assurance, but a faith in Christ, which brings assurance. The flesh is important in our sanctification process, as Paul so diligently and fervently points out in Romans 7-8. The battle that we are able to win over sin, is something that we face every day, but praise God we have His strength to do it.
@1aliveinchrist “we must be confessing our sins in order for God to continually forgive us”? Or what? God will hit you with his big stick? I am concerned you have fallen victim to the Ultralegalism of the Aminist heresy. Life must consist of the daily Terror of God's Wrath for you. Perhaps, if as your gospel of “9/11 was an inside job!!!” suggests, this job of terror was done inside you. The log driven through your eye is the crossbeam Christ was crucified on; you see nothing but Death.
@Shojahan (Cont 2) Being free in Christ in NO WAY gives us a license to sin, as Paul also notes in Romans. The great theologian Jonn Owen states it this way in his treatise "Mortifcation of Sin" -- "BE KILLING SIN DAILY OR SIN WILL BE KILLING YOU." I fear you have gone to the other extreme that denies the flesh entirely and says that we are capable of walking only in the spirit - which isn't possible, given what Paul says in Romans, and what John states in 1 John 1:9 - We must be confessing.
@1aliveinchrist It is no surprise that YOU FEAR freedom in Christ, because in your Bondage to the Flesh, you have believed the devil's lie that the only alternative to Legalism is Sin. Who is this Legalist teacher of yours John Owen, stuck in the Useless Duality of “killing sin daily/sin killing you”? No wonder you are still a slave! The only way to overcome the Flesh and have Freedom is by “living according to the Spirit”, not through the idiotic asceticism that Paul disendorsed in Colossians.
@Shojahan (Cont 3) -- we must be confessing our sins in order for God to continually forgive us. This is a major theme bluntly stated in the OT, and it carries through post-cross. Remember, if you say you do not sin, you lie and are not practicing the truth. If you say you have no sin, you lie and the truth is not in you. 1 John 1:6 and 8. Woe to those who do not have the truth IN them, for then they do not have Christ. Perhaps you should look more at your own log, than another's splinter.
@1aliveinchrist “which we KNOW we can have in Chirst”? We can know nothing, unless you're going to say it is Man's action rather than God's decision that saves. What, you think YOU are going to decide that you're saved? You're going to go up to God on Judgement Day and tell him to step aside and let you pass? On what basis? Because you fulfilled the legal requirement for salvation by saying the “sinner's prayer” at some point in your life? Of course, why not, everyone knows Legalism saves!
@Shojahan You're kidding right? I'm an utter and complete monergist totally reformed in my theology, and you are going to lecture me about what I decide vs what God decides? You must either be misreading me or just making up an argument. As far as what we "can know," YOU are the one who will have to deal with 1 John: 1 John 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. This is just ONE exampe of the many in the Bible that tell us.... Cont.
@Shojahan (Cont)....that tell us what we CAN know. How ignorant to think that one cannot know if one is saved or not, when the apostles make it so clear. THe Bible also tells us that we are to be discerning, against false doctrine, false teachers, false Christs, etc. Your statement that "we can know nothing" is so far from the Biblical warning given us, that I wonder if you're getting your theology/doctrine from the Bible or from man? God Bless and I do hope you will read the Bible more.
Rob Bell is a genius. Why are so many so angered by what this man says? Why are so many so ok with giving God the attributes we most despise in humans.: Wrath, anger, jealousy, delighting in the suffering of his own son who had to save us from Him. Where is the department of Human Services.? Human children, and animals for that matter, would be taken away from a father displaying these qualities.
@lanesue123, a so-called genius who doesn't know what he's talking about when it comes to the scriptures, that's about the size of it. I applaud him on the fact that he fits into Bible prophecy about the last days, for if anyone needed proof just read the Word of God and follow along with what you're hearing him say (and a few others to boot). The blind leading the blind and they all fall into that ditch.
The fact that Rob Bell refuses to believe what Jesus said, "...they (the unrepentant) will go away to ETERNAL punishment, but the righteous to eternal LIFE." Bell seems to believe that all this "hell talk" is limiting his successful marketing of Jesus. I guess it's not enough to say that Jesus died a brutal, horrible death for US, out of unfathomable love, or that He OFFERS all heaven, that He is willing to forgive ALL who REPENT? If one will reject what Jesus offers, NOTHING will change them!
@philipatoz Yes it is highly dangerous to add to Scripture, it is also HIGHLY dangerous to subtract from Scripture. Why? If you take away Grace to only leave Law, then Law without Grace will likewise be applied to you. You'll be seeing the “rabble getting into the Kingdom of God ahead of you”. It goes without saying that as a Legalist, you are the Unrepentant Unbeliever, so the same Mercy & Grace of God that can save them is what can save stubborn You. So why do you kick against the goads?
It's a HIGHLY dangerous business to go beyond what scripture teaches. Rob is elevating his own personal and hopeful speculations to the level of ultimate truth on a par with scripture. So if I'm an unbeliever, I might well think that since I don't feel led to accept Jesus and can't seem to figure it out, then I'll just lead my life as I want to, because in the end - if all this is true - although God may straighten me out, I'll "win" - the love of God "will save me" - I'll be in heaven anyway.
@philipatoz Now why would Christ be kind to those who do not even wish to know Him? Ask the “unsaved” yourself, and my goodness, they seem to think that in becoming a Christian, they also have to convert to right-wing conservative lunacy. Wonder where they could have got that idea?! Certainly not Sarah Palin or Jerry Falwell! The Unchristian Evil that is Extreme Conservatism is a massive stumbling block, in terms of your precious Legalism, mitigating circumstances, for Christ to consider Mercy
Awesome! I love it!! If God is perfect then how could they create something imperfect? So perhaps the real test is to just BE who we are! We are all Gods as we are their children. It is our birthright. And the time is now to stand for Light and Love and truly live as Jesus and other Masters have showed us. Only Love Is Real! All else is an illusion.
@equinox0909 You are not far from the Kingdom of God. But the right-wing conservative legalists who say they love God with their mouths but hate Him in their hearts have marked your message about the Love of God as 'Spam', so that it is not visible to any seekers who come to this website. Conservatism (Evil) is the opposite of Christianity (Good), and when you mix them, as the Bible shows, Evil always swallows the Good. Don't worry, I'll be posting here myself, until Good has overcome Evil.
Awesome! I love it!! If God is perfect then how could they create something imperfect? So perhaps the real challenge is to just BE who we are! We are all Gods as we are their children. It is our birthright. And the time is now to stand for Light and Love and truly live as Jesus and other Masters have showed us. Only Love Is Real! All else is an illusion.
Awesome! I love it!! If God is perfect then how could they create something imperfect? So perhaps the real challenge is to just BE who we are! We are all Gods as we are their children. It is our birthright. And the time is now to stand for Light and Love and truly live as Jesus and other Masters have showed us. Only Love Is Real! All else is an illusion.
Awesome! I love it!! If God is perfect then how could they create something imperfect? So perhaps the real test is to just BE who we are! We are all Gods as we are their children. It is our birthright. And the time is now to stand for Light and Love and truly live as Jesus and other Masters have showed us. Only Love Is Real! All else is an illusion.
Awesome! I love it!! If God is perfect then how could they create something imperfect? So perhaps the real test is to just BE who we are! We are all Gods as we are their children. It is our birthright. And the time is now to stand for Light and Love and truly live as Jesus and other Masters have showed us. Only Love Is Real! All else is an illusion.
Rob Bell is a heretic. He teaches that there is no eternal punishment, even though the Bible clearly teaches eternal punishment for the unsaved(Matthew 25:41). God is love, but He is also holy and just. God doesn't owe salvation to anyone because all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, but He graciously offers salvation to those who will repent and put their faith in Jesus. Those who reject Jesus will spend eternity separated from God in Hell.
@James5877 and all have sinned and fall short of His glory because He made us fallible. He chose not to make us perfect. Rob Bell is not a heretic. Do you think God gave us a mind and a free will to not question? To not sit here and THINK about what he says? Even if Rob Bell is wrong (which I think he likely is) I think God would commend him for not taking things blindly.
@johonoknat, the problem isn't that Bell questions whether hell and God's punishment of those dying unrepentant are eternal, as YES, from OUR viewpoint it does seem harsh. The problem is Rob, as a pastor with great influence, writes a book emphatically INSISTING, WITH CERTAINTY, that despite the clear teaching of many scriptures, that this is not the case. He insists that "LOVE WINS" despite the fact that those receiving such punishment clearly chose to refuse God and remain in rebellion. Cont.
@philipatoz Rob Bell is not a legalist, and neither is Jesus. Eg1. Jesus said he was not going up to the Feast, and then He went anyway. Is Jesus a liar? Only if he's a legalist. Eg2. Jesus, “It's not my time”, but changed water to wine anyway. Oh no! Alcohol!! Sorry conservatives! Eg3. 2 days & 2 nights instead of 3 days & 3 nights ( One legalist told me Jesus was crucified onWednesday!). Pharisees (Conservativ) put Doctrine first, Saducees (Liberals) put Temple first -Christ is Author of both.
Everything is NOT spiritual - this is new age gnosticism - it is smartly packaged with reverse wrapping but gives license to sin. This is false doctrine!
"He's smoking the tires, racing the engine, and burning lots of rubber, but his theological car can't ride down the block, much less get out on the highway."...dang, someone's getting their butt kicked in here for all to see.
@kushisaac “"He's smoking the tires, racing the engine, and burning lots of rubber, but his theological car can't ride down the block, much less get out on the highway."..dang, someone's getting their butt kicked in here for all to see”| I think the lady doth protest too much. Sadly, what's getting its butt kicked around here is the gospel of Christ by conservative legalists terrorisers who want to high-jack Jesus and force him to fly into the fiery inferno of Hell which they love so dearly
@Shojahan, YOUR definition of legalists is not a SCRIPTURAL one! If Jesus didn't mean there would be a judgment and eternal hell for those rejecting and choosing to remain in rebellion, why did He say so? You accuse those who quote Jesus' own words as being legalists, but not HIM - WHY? According to your "logic," one can't really know what the Bible means, as you see it as so many "contradictions" - all which have long been refuted and explained, and you only SELECTIVELY embrace its teachings.
@Shojahan, I hate to tell you but there WILL be some legalists in heaven - at least if they are truly saved! Legalism is the fallacy of thinking that one's standing before God is based upon HUMAN effort as opposed to "His divine power." Galatians addresses legalism - and note that it was written to people who had ALREADY received the Holy Spirit. Paul was admonishing baby Christians because they were trying to live out the Christian life by keeping the law, which is impossible!
Shojahan, for all of the SUPPOSED scriptural contradictions you revel in, while essentially asserting there is no certainty and only ambiguity in it, yet you are certain there is not eternal punishment, no real accountability. As Jesus IS God, and as HE spoke and warned so much about the consequences of unbelief, rejection and rebellion, and spoke of hell, then either you don't believe His words or, to be consistent, you would have to brand Him a legalist as well. Why NOT?
Truth is, @Shojahan's real problem would appear to be with the very words of Jesus Himself. Quote Jesus warnings and he accuses you of being a legalist. Ask for scriptural support that the unrepentant will receive mercy or that they will not receive eternal punishment and he offers no proof. He's smoking the tires, racing the engine, and burning lots of rubber, but his theological car can't ride down the block, much less get out on the highway.
@philipatoz, I agree completely with every point you made about this Shojahan. He is quick to label a believer of ALL of Gods word a "conservative", and he cherrypicks verses to support his unfounded claims when cornered logically. Thats why this Rob Bell disappoints me, of course this is the new age feel good Christianity....how sad. Shojahan also believes that people that believe in Hell are "scared into" salvation, which touches on more fallacies than I care to list.
@money4412 I label those 'conservatives' who ignorantly cherrypick the Word of God to try and make Jesus the same sexist, racist, homophobic capitalist that they are! That's called projection, not doctrine. It is based on complete, utter and absolute FEAR, not Truth. They are blind to ALL of God's Word, because like the bitter vineyard workers, they HATE HIM for his generosity. They “believe in Hell”, I believe in God. Try reading the entire Bible before you make comment on it. Fear not.
@Shojahan glues together all of these random theology soundbites, contradicts all of these scriptures and yet refuses to believe what they plainly say. He accuses those who wish to take seriously the TOTALITY of scripture as being legalists. Did Jesus ever express there would be mercy for the unrepentant or unbelievers? Absolutely NOT! His mercy is ONLY for those who are willing to repent and accept Him! Further, Jesus Himself warns of judgment for such people - so was JESUS a legalist?
@philipatoz@philipatoz “Refuses to believe what Scriptures plainly say”. This would apply to the apologists. Legalists are unable to handle the complexity the TOTALITYof Scripture, so they engage in painful lexical contortions to DENY the textual incongruencies that God has placed in the Bible for our revelation. Or they DISMISS it as “copyists' error” and thus DENY the doctrince of Inerrancy. Ask an apologist “Did Jesus say to take staff and sandals or not to?” Then sit back for a laugh!
@philipatoz Till now, I thought Miller was the most ridiculous, then I go to page you sent me and this Lyons is referencing Miller! As for his rationalist legalism, Lyons goes through one of the most excruciating lexical loop-the-loops of Hellenist Greek I've ever seen, and after coming out the other side, he's only contradicted himself! He's denied what the Word actually says (how atheist-like!), in order to make it say what he wishes it said, just to give his legalistic mind some peace. Sad
@philipatoz I have a 5/7 in Advanced Greek from a secular university ( no right wing lunatic theology attached) and a 6/7 in Intermediate Hebrew. It's doesn't make me Grand Master, but it's more than enough for me to see when conservative pseudo-intellectuals are abusing their lexicons and deploying morphological contortions in order to deceive gormless lay-people such as yourself. What does the Bible say the fate of false teachers will be? The same as Hell-worshipping legalists I believe
@philipatoz The consistent issue you are having in your interpretation is that you are seeing it only in letter & not in The Spirit too. In literal, I could say, “Paul was writing to Galatians, I'm not Galatian, so it doesn't apply.” So obviously by citing it for our contemporary context, you're not altogether an arch-legalist, but only where your conservative traditions allow you not to be. Now come up a level, otherwise as Jesus said when disciples thought he meant Bread, “Are you so dull?”
@philipatoz Due to taking up too much space on this comment thread, I've sent messages to your Youtube Channel account at different times, not all of them are challenging. The latest one in particular is where I wonder why do you keep relying on gormless apologetics instead of the Word of God as it has been revealed? Do you realise these apologists are adding to and subtracting from Scripture for the sake of legalistic neatness? C.S. Lewis: “He's not a tame Lion”. And that's from an apologist!
@philipatoz Did Jesus ever say there'd be mercy for the unrepentant or unbelievers? No, that would contradict the Law. Solution? Overlook the Law through covering of Grace. How? The Cross. Why? It's the only way legalistic lunatics who mistake themselves for Christians could be saved. God himself stopped being a legalist way back in the Old Testament, kept sparing the unrepentant, How? The Cross. Why? Nobody, including God, likes a stoning. Though jihadists & legalists do of course!
a clever media genius ... "Love Wins" ... Rob Bell should read his bible and stop corruption. Wrong on the Trinity - Read John 3-16 Rob! WRONG on the atonement - Christianity will not "APPEAL TO EVERYONE" which is what you are trying to do...
Read Revalation... a few times.
The bible speaks of "False prophets" in the end times.... my oh my - we must be getting VERY close!
"...He will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the ETERNAL fire prepared for the devil and his angels…they will go away to ETERNAL punishment, but the righteous to eternal LIFE.” So, what about these words spoken by Jesus Himself? And what about the word ETERNAL here suggests there is a second chance for unbelievers and the unrepentant? Note also the contrast in the above verse, that for believers there is ETERNAL life! Was Jesus lying? Mistaken? Not a chance!
@philipatoz Yes, as Paul says “Any who preach a different gospel (going back to legalistic binding) is anathema” Anathema means “the cursed”. I guess that leaves you in a bind, as by your own quoting, you, with your false gospel, are heading to ETERNAL fire! No second chances eh? Well then, as it is written, so you better repent now, in case “your soul is demanded of you this very night”! You probably think all the aborted babies go to Hell, and all those who never heard of Jesus too? Dear me!
I would say that people like @Shojahan are Exhibit A for why preachers like Rob Bell are so dangerous, as they lull such people to believe that no matter what their beliefs or behavior, that at some point, God will accept them - apparently against their will to reject Him (almost like the extreme Calvinist that believes God elects some to belief against their will). Nowhere in the New Testament do we read of a "second chance" beyond this lifetime to be saved. Such belief is hopeful SPECULATION!
@philipatoz What Rob Bell? I have yet to see a single video of his, including the one above. I'm only responding to the teachings others have attributed to him, because it is not for me to judge people, only teachings. My beliefs are based on the Bible, whole of it, not just Law, in which you seem to be stuck. I would say people such as @Philipatoz are why legalists have been so successful in the Church, they lull people into believing that their own actions of contrition can win them salvation.
@Shojahan can assert all he wants that those who believe that the Bible teaches there will be a final judgment and eternal punishment for those who remain in their rebellion to God, he can try to say they are legalists, etc, etc, but at the end of the day Shojahan actually doesn't believe what JESUS HIMSELF said and warned against - he doesn't believe Scripture means what it says. My question is does he not believe in free will to rebel? Does he believe God will allow rebels into the Kingdom?
@philipatoz No I do not believe God will allow rebels into his Kingdom,which should be a worry for legalists such as yourself. You continue ignoring the good news that JESUS HIMSELF proclaimed and insist instead Judgement should triumph over Mercy. You should be careful what you wish for, you may most likely get it! You are like those bitter workers in the vineyard who complained that the paymaster was too generous! 2 days & 2 nights proves that Grace he won allows Jesus to overrule his own Law
@Shojahan I said "heretic" because it accurately describes this mans interpretations of the modern day cult of universalism. I believe that the Christ died for our sin,s to save us from the pure flaming wrath and justice of God..AKA HELL. God done this because he cares and loves us and does not want us to burn in Hell. It's up to you, you can believe Rob Bell or Jesus Christ, either way, Young Rob shall be receive what God wills for him and it is not my placed to condemn a single soul.
@BeReady7 If Young Rob is preaching Grace and Mercy because he has this ridiculous idea that “God is Love” (where does he get these ideas?!) and someone else preaches Law and Judgement because he believes God is Fear, then Jesus would be on Bell's side. On the other side is where you'll find the modern day Pharisees, standing ready with stones in their hands. A lot like Islamic fundamentalists. (Universal salvation may not be a given, but it's up to God how much mercy he wants to show or not.
When the Son of Man comes in his glory...All the nations will be gathered before him…he will separate the people...as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats...sheep on his right …. goats on his left...he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the ETERNAL fire prepared for the devil and his angels…they will go away to ETERNAL punishment, but the righteous to eternal LIFE.”
@philipatoz That is certainly the Law; classic duality -fruit from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, and yes, that tree was planted by God, and the so the Law is just. But are going to keep denying the Grace that Christ' resurrection has won us after his suffering & death? "Three days and three nights" Jesus said he would be in the grave, but he came out after only two days and two nights. Is that not proof enough that Grace will win over Law? You are invoking the spirit of Antichrist.
@Shojahan, for an exploration of how long Jesus was in the tomb compared to what was prophesied and what Scripture teaches, Google: "Carm How long was Jesus dead in the tomb?"
@philipatoz, I couldn't agree more with your assessment of the prophet Rob Bell and Shojahan. Rob Bell's message is a softball version of Christianity that seeks to lure the sheeple who both want to enjoy the pleasures of the world and claim redemption at the Judgement seat. Why follow God's word and live the Christian life when in the end we all will be saved........the lack of accountability in his message is what troubles me......your thoughts on the prophet Rob Bell's message???
@money4412 You agree with Philipatoz because you belong to the same Pharisiac sect. It's conservatives who want to enjoy the pleasures of the world ; they promote marriage (serving self rather than serving God) because they're worldly. And you're all but admitting that the only reason you are being righteous is because the Bible is telling you too, not because you are a new creation who wants to do the right thing, and that you would do the right thing. even if the Bible did not command you too
@money4412 Do you realize yours is false rightouesness? You're only believing in Jesus out of fear, and you're only doing it in order to avoid Hell? So what would you be doing if there was no hell? Sinning away? I understand: you're projecting your own anxiety onto others: you believe that without the threat of Hell, nobody would be good. Do understand that regenerative work that Christ does? Have you allowed him to do this work in you? You will then be good simply because you want to! Freedom!
@Shojahan, you've lost me and you still haven't answered my question concerning Hell. The "fire and brimstone message" didn't scare me into salvation by the way, Jesus's love and his message did. What I am saying and you've clearly misunderstood is this.....what is the point of the cross if our free will to choose Christ is stripped from us if God's "love" wins in the end anyway? And why does Revelation speak of the Judgement if it doesn't exist???
@money4412 The only reason God's "love" (why do you put it in quotations? do you see why I think you don't really know God's Love?) can win at all is because the cross has won that option. But that doesn't just mean everyone will go to Life. The complexity of the entire Bible shows, however, that God can exercise that option if he wants to. Or he can still send everyone to Death -including "Christians". Or he can send some to Life and some to Death. But the point is it's all entirely up to God.
@money4412 The prophecy of judgment and destruction on Babylon never came to pass. Only the King, the Head of Babylon (Satan) was cut off, and Babylon itself was spared. God can fulfill all of Revelations if he wishes. It is written, and therefore he has that legal right. The cross is what has given him the right to show grace and mercy instead if he so wishes. Christ’s resurrection after 2 days & 2 nights instead of 3 days & 3 nights, as prefigured in the OT, shows he prefers the latter.
All these groups that splinter off true Christianity do so because they take one or two Bible verses and base everything on that. Scripture always upholds itself but must be taken in its full context, not snippets.
kiddosgal 2 weeks ago
@cezza57 If you knew your Bible well,you wouldn't be saying that.Please do a precept Bible study.
noahsark1962 1 month ago
"A human being occupies a totally unique place in the entire Universe: How you handle your MONEY(!!)...¨ So Money is what first came to his mind for the place of the human being in the Universe... now I understand you Rob.
spiritwalkerXXl 1 month ago
Excuse me, I have to let the Spirit move my bowels now. If everything is spiritual, so must that be. And at least I'll be left with something for all my effort. Religion just gets stupider and stupider all the time. Another clown gets his 15 minutes of fame and gets paid for it. If religion is an ineradicable human impulse, it's not much of a compliment for humans.
NixonisLord 3 months ago
Great! Thank you !
peterdmitriev 4 months ago
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We should seek truth together instead of defending what we've been taught as truth. There's a big difference between the two.
youtube.com/watch?v=yjRcO1Sm0HU
whatthehellbook 4 months ago
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Given time more people will discover that many of our medieval interpretations didn't reflect what the original biblical text meant. Rob just found that earlier and remains courageous. And not alone.
agente180 5 months ago in playlist Nooma-rob Bell films
Consider your eternal fate. Are you good enough to get to heaven? Watch "God's Prison" to find out.
Electfilmproductions 5 months ago
I REBUKE ALL CALVARY CHAPEL PEOPLE THAT COME ON HERE POSTING SHIT ABOUT ROB BELL! IN JESUS NAME!!!!
remusnigga 5 months ago
@remusnigga You're a joke...and your "rebuke".
gtrjunky 5 months ago
All things are spiritual especially going to hell.
TR5T 5 months ago
Rob Bell Is Correct But mark Driscoll is a Heretic from Hell !
lovenoahsexy 6 months ago
@lovenoahsexy How so?..
Ridikai 4 months ago
pt. 2..One has to challenge what they have been born into. Dig deep and find the Higher Inner Meanings and Truth. This is EXACTLY what Rob Bell has done. Consequently, he has come up with a great many High Valid Truths, in my opinion. And yes, it does not fit neatly into accepted narrow dogma, nor should it. Half of the NT was written by Rome not the Apostles. Blood and Brimstone? Try Greek..Kristos, whose sacrifice would save Souls for Hades and Tartarus (River of Fire) Sound familiar?
moranplano 7 months ago
pt1 Any religion going out to the masses for millenia will be mangled badly. that is just how this world is set up. Noone is just going to be born into High Truths of God. The High Truths have to be hard won, thru sacrifice, suffering and an intense desire to put truth above all things, even social acceptability. Anyone can spout dogma that they were born into. What have you shown GOD? Raise me a Christian and "Jesus is Lord", raise me Buddhist, I'll spout fundamental Buddhism or Islam or..
moranplano 7 months ago
New age is a corruption word. What others see as" New Age", many see as going back to the old ways and the simple teachings of Jesus. One can deny Mr. Bell but as many as disagree with him, twice as many will be lead to Jesus because of him. Amen and thank you for this post.<3
MyDebbiem 7 months ago
so true
PJMeth 7 months ago
wow! there's a wolf speaking.
lowerklass 8 months ago
@lowerklass ::: Wolves don't speak - they howl. Unless you have a magic one in your pocket. Let's see your speaking wolf perform for us here on YT.
k0smon 8 months ago
Agree to the max! Yewwwww!
BrissieGhetto 8 months ago
WOW, no word in Hebrew for Spiritual, eh? What about hosea 9:7 the SPIRITUAL MAN the same SPirit that appears in Gen 1:2 'the SPIRIT of God"???
Read the Bible, step down and shut up, Rob Bell!
buzzbbird 8 months ago
@buzzbbird ::: Silly, those are English words. Tell us the Hebrew words from which they were derived.
k0smon 8 months ago
Sounds like that Snake?, in the Garden of Eden, "God says you will surely die? God really says you will die?" and Today: "Is there really a Hell? Hell,forever?" The Truth is with the Magnitude 9 earthquake in Japan, Past Quakes in China, New zealand, Sumatura, Phukit, Chili, killing millions, turmoil in the mid east, death around the globe, Satan knows time is short, is desperate, so here it is, his version of "Love" in sync with M. Jacksons "Heal the World" , while denying God's Word.
iuchino 8 months ago
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Rob Bell either does NOT KNOW the Bible, or deliberately LIES!
rickgigliotti 8 months ago
@rickgigliotti Amen!
buzzbbird 8 months ago
indeed you are a brave and courageous man .. I have always wanted nothing to do with religion , just listening to some of the judgments put forth here say,s it all , and yet this man bell dares to speak from his heart , where god dwells in all of us .. thx you ,really peace hemp
Auk,Chicchan,Ahau
EYEMHEMPSTER 9 months ago 2
He's good!
jeremylopez7 9 months ago
@jeremylopez7 Rob Bell only picks the few scriptures and twists them, wrongly interprets the Bible, and outward lies. If you do honest research, like others, you will realize Rob Bell is a false teacher...
rickgigliotti 8 months ago
@rickgigliotti not so, Rob actually see's the contradicting themes in the bible, he recognises the difference between the bible and the scripture....just because your translation says that most will burn in hell forever does not make it so, you are putting the idol of the bible before God"(who WILL have all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth)and who is the savior of ALL men, specially(not exclusively!)of believers"...Pauls words not mine...blessings.....:¬)
david1611kjv 8 months ago 3
@rickgigliotti :::The bible is twisted from beginning to end. It is full of contradiction and error, and cannot be trusted to be the word of God.
k0smon 8 months ago
@k0smon Let's hope for your sake at least that you are right - I wouldn't like to be in your shoes if you are not. Actually I find the Bible explains just about everything that's going on in the world. Perhaps you are not reading it correctly. You have to bear in mind how long ago it was written, they didn't do text talk then.
katharineannhelkin 6 months ago
Robb Bell is amazing. Once you open your eyes, there is no going back to closing your mind.
rmh31284 9 months ago 14
@rmh31284 - robbie bell is a faggot and heretic
pittedthighs 2 months ago
@pittedthighs Top comment for months. Go back to your hole.
rmh31284 2 months ago
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@rmh31284 - that's cuz you log on every day and click the Thumbs Up button, you little homo head! ba-BOOM! ahahahahaha! you dumb douche
pittedthighs 2 months ago
@rmh31284
your mind is so open your fucking brains fell out.
aegisgfx 1 month ago
@rmh31284
yeah now your mind is so open your tiny brains fell out!!
aegisgfx 1 month ago
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pockmarkedbuttocks 1 month ago
@rmh31284 - hahahaha! Both John MacArthur and Franklin Graham have come out and said that your little douchey Bell is a false teacher and heretic! You lose, NewAge douchelick! And you spelled his name wrong too - one 'b' in Rob. Boing!
pockmarkedbuttocks 1 month ago
@rmh31284 you and your gay hero worship of this faggy twerp!
pockmarkedbuttocks 1 month ago
I wish all the preachers in the world would stop reading the scriptures. Just open your eyes and see. Open your mouths and breath the air and eat the food that comes out of the ground. Open your ears and listen to the sounds of nature. It's obvious that hell was invented by evil people to control people with fear. If you can't see that, then go put your nose back in a book called the "scriptures" and separate yourself from everything with the dead thoughts in a dead book.
laejnaek 9 months ago
@laejnaek
Rob Bell is the new messiah. Literally.
I love and worship him.
TheSasha555 9 months ago
@laejnaek There is indeed some lovely things in nature but open your eyes and tell me there is not already hell all around us and it doesn't appear to be God that is causing that just the things that he tells us are not good - greed, hate, malice etc etc. If there was nothing in it and if it is all fiction, why are people bothering to argue the case anyway? I don't hear such a fuss being made about Harry Potter.
katharineannhelkin 6 months ago
I think this new age retard should read some real authors, like Sam Harris. What Rob Bell is peddling is nothing more than new age mumbo jumbo. What an idiot.
aegisgfx 9 months ago
@aegisgfx It's interesting that even you, being a non christian, can see this.
gtrjunky 9 months ago 2
@gtrjunky It's interesting that you as right-wing conservative lunatic are perfectly in tune with atheist. Then of course, religious fundamentalism in chrisitanity is perfectly in stride with religious fundamentalism in Islam. they bouth espouse legalism, they both hate women and gays, the both love gun violence, and they both insist that if someone doesn't agree with them 100%, they are not a "true believer".
Shojahan 9 months ago 3
@Shojahan I don't hate women, I married one and I only advocate gun violence when needed. Semper Fi!
gtrjunky 9 months ago
@Shojahan BTW, I also advocate knife and fist violence when needed too.
gtrjunky 9 months ago
@gtrjunky
well... keep in mind hat as a non christian, I think the bible is nothing but a useless slave owners manual spoken by illiterate people, then written down hundreds of years later, edited, translated and generally mangled in every way possible. There is nothing in there that would indicate there really are gods, and if the christian god is real hes a fucking genocidal maniac who needs to be destroyed at all cost.
aegisgfx 1 month ago
@aegisgfx I'm sorry to hear that. Best of luck to you.
gtrjunky 1 month ago
@aegisgfx Not so. Not NEW-AGE at all. Very old indeed. Love was a radical idea in Christ's time. It was all about punishment. He had to speak in "hellish" metaphors in order to convey his messages of turning away from hate and toward love. It's what got him killed. All the hate on this page alone verifies what Rob has said. His path is indeed the narrow one leading to salvation. You see, few will really choose love. The rest will just die and never be resurrected to anywhere.
chanteuz1 9 months ago 15
@chanteuz1
And you are perfectly comfortable with that, I can tell. Any god that would burn his own children for ANY reason is an evil, immoral god and not deserving of worship. But do whats ever makes you feel good man, if knowing that 5 billion currently alive are going to burn for eternity because your god didn't get his message out there effectively, then more power to you I guess.
aegisgfx 9 months ago 4
@aegisgfx 'member when u were a kid nd u'd be runnin around the house nd ur mom wud yell nd say STOP RUNNIN, she knew u cud eventually fall and hurt urself if u kept running like crazy! and thn u eventually fell and hurt urself! was it ur moms fault for not stopping u? Eeeh no! she warned U but it was your choice! u had 2 options obey nd avoid what was coming to u or fall nd hurt urself. u know the truth but its up to u how u live ur life and if u do bad or good .. dont blame GOd for ur mistakes
gualwer 1 month ago
@gualwer
wut the fuk? Hey shove your invisible best friend up your ass, I mean that from the bottom of my heart.
aegisgfx 1 month ago
@aegisgfx How sad that you cant keep a normal conversation with someone without having the urge to insult! I think I would get a better feedback from a monkey than you! what a waste of human being!
gualwer 1 month ago
@gualwer
go suck a boys dick christian moron.
aegisgfx 1 month ago
@chanteuz1 you know I've never thought of it that way! Jesus said he didn't come to bring peace, but he came with a Sword.
sometimes you need to step up and have a backbone! meek doesn't mean to let people run over you all the time, the has to be a time when you need to get for real in order for people to listen and Comprehend.
It's kind of like going to Greece and you have to speak in their language in under for them to understand you. Thanks!
ryourhm 6 months ago
@chanteuz1
its like you are saying Kryptonite was Rare in Supermans time. Lol you fucking christ morons need to read books other than your ancient slave owners manual.
aegisgfx 1 month ago
@chanteuz1
In Superman's time there was no kryptonite, and all lived a happy life free from crime because Spiderman was there to save them. And Zeus was lord of all the unicorns!! LOL!!!
aegisgfx 1 month ago
@chanteuz1 What he teaches is not scriptural.If you want to follow a man that teaches what you want to hear instead of what the truth actually is,that is one thing.I would rather know and follow the truth.
Rob Bell teaches that hardly anyone is going to Hell.That is strange because that is not what my Bible says.He is a false teacher.Stay as far away from this man as you can and his teachings.
noahsark1962 1 month ago
@noahsark1962 It is okay to listen to his teachings, but you must be critical of them. It's not like we should treat the teachings of Rob Bell like the plague. Like he says in Velvet Elvis, the conversation itself can be good.
MisledProduction 1 month ago
@Shojahan Who said I was homophobic, or any of those things you accuse me of? All I did was quote one verse! I don't fear god for what he might do to me, God loves me. I fear him because God is an awesome, he created the universe, he is holy and perfect. I am not. When you meet God you will fear him, we all will. But God's message to us is love. You might disagree with me, but that's no grounds to tell me to build a "hell house", what ever it is. Where is the gentleness and respect?
mikhailit 9 months ago
@mikhailit I apologise for causing offence. If it's any excuse, I have been debating Conservatrons so long, I have inadvertently been drawn into their reactionary Duality, and mistook you for one of them. I agree with you that Fear of God is about Reverence and Respect, not the Fear of Punishment, on which these Right-Wing Lunatics build their Hell Houses to win teenagers over to their False Gospel of Hate, “making them twice the son of hell!” Search 'Hell Houses' to see what I'm referring to.
Shojahan 9 months ago
@1aliveinchrist spot on. Proverbs 19:23 - The fear of the Lord leads to Life and whoever has it rests satisfied. People might not like it, but it's everywhere in scripture.
mikhailit 9 months ago
@mikhailit The Fear of the Lord is not the same as homophobia or the fear of women, the fear of Mexicans, the fear of socialism, the fear they're coming to tak my guns away, or god forbid, make me pay my taxes, or the fear that government money might be going to Black people. You are not at all "resting satisfied" but are in bondage to deep-seated anxiety and decieved into thinking that you're a christian. Go build another Hell House you Fear-worshipping Conservatron.
Shojahan 9 months ago
@1aliveinchrist
mikhailit 9 months ago
DAMNIT ROB UPLOAD SOME TON BUNDLE FFS :(
Niika6666 10 months ago
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Just saw this film. Awesome
jneil2007 10 months ago
@philipatoz Your Legalistic Ideology: ”always consider its immediate context”? This makes it specific to Culture and makes it Irrelevant to Us. “NEVER give more weight to less clear passages when you have many parallel and much clearer ones addressing the same or similar subject”? You are reading in the Natural and Spiritually Illiterate. “Never read more into the text than it actually says”? You are only seeing in the Flesh and not in the Spirit.|You are in legalistic bondage, listen to Bell.
Shojahan 10 months ago
@philipatoz Passages that are “less clear” to you are because of your Flesh-orientated legalistic ultraliteralism. The Unspiritual Man can not see like the Spiritual Man. Conservative values are Satanic. The Spirit of the Word must contradict the Flesh of the Word when its Flesh has been corrupted by the satanically deceieved, also known as Conservative 'christians'. It is you who is uncomfortable with Scripture because it defies the idolatrous Legalism you depend on for comfort instead of Jesus
Shojahan 10 months ago
So after seeing this guy in several videos now, I think I've figured out something....this guy has only black shirts and black pants in his closet.
jaggatorpm 10 months ago
@jaggatorpm He does seem to always wear black, but I've ruled out him being gothic. He's just a hipster with trendy glasses. Maybe he has a fondness for the 'Man in Black' himself.
Parkinish 10 months ago
Rob Bell is such a hipster with those glasses.
Parkinish 10 months ago
Any theologian or Bible scholar worth his salt will tell you that to correctly interpret scripture you must 1) always consider its immediate context; 2) you NEVER give more weight to less clear passages when you have many parallel and much clearer ones addressing the same or similar subject; 3) Never read more into the text than it actually says. Bell is putting much more weight on the less clear and then he even speculates AND CONTRADICTS much scripture to counter those he finds uncomfortable.
philipatoz 10 months ago
@philipatoz “Any bible scholar worth his salt”? You mean any right wing conservative lunatic. You are advocating Ultraliteralism which is opposed to Jesus' teaching. When the disciples thought Jesus was literally talking about bread, they too were applying the 3 Legalistic principles you have arrogantly outlined in your Evangelical Ignorance. But Jesus rebuked them as he would now rebuke you, “Are you so DULL”? Dull Fool, listen to Rob Bell, he is interpreting spiritually as Jesus said to.
Shojahan 10 months ago
@philipatoz After manfully wading through GL Archer's gormless drivel, his “scholarship” leads me to suspect that you as Archer's devoted disciple would be not so much a Mr 95%, but more of a Mr. 80%. Archer's heresies are most thorough indeed, the depth of his unbelief has obviously afflicted you with spiritual trauma, but really there are no “Bible Difficulties” if you can bring yourself to trust in God (instead of Legalism) with every textual contradiction that he has placed in his Word.
Shojahan 9 months ago
Oh Mr Archer, where does it say that Heli was the father of Mary? Absolutely nowhere! Stop adding to Scripture, Mr Archer. Oh Mr Archer, has a single credible scholar ever agreed to these “ancient parlance” speculations of yours to confirm Jesus was in the grave 3 days and 3 nights? Absolutely not! Stop subtracting from Scripture, Mr Archer. But do not Fear, Mr. Conservative, God can still have mercy on your unregenerate soul and all those you've led astray into Legalist Heresy too.
Shojahan 9 months ago
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Shojahan 9 months ago
@philipatoz I still haven't even got to your 11 Questions, but after 10 posts today, that's enough for one weekend day, but don't worry I'll be back tomorrow, here in public as you wish. In the meantime, consider your own situation: Have you obeyed the law of “repent and believe in Jesus”? (Legalists MUST fulfill this law 100%, 99% not good enough) Of course you haven't. Your idolatrous worship of guitar culture, your life ruled by Fear, you know not Jesus, you're in same boat as everyone else
Shojahan 9 months ago
@philipatoz “Those who believe and follow Jesus are saved and others are not”? Stop relying on this Legalism which will only send you to Death and depend on Christ's Grace and Mercy instead of denying it. He died to win it. Do not legalise the gospel, that's how Satan disempowers it. It is objectifying Christ, that is OT paganism. How can you Trust an inanimate object? That is the false Christ, a dead one, a bound one. That is why you have Fear and not Love, and that is why you are a legalist.
Shojahan 10 months ago
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Shojahan 10 months ago
@philipatoz This “understanding” of yours is just a euphemism for “traditional legalism”. As for the “millions” who are decieved by it, it's okay, no need for Fear, Grace is adequate covering for “simpletons”. You don't have to be dumb to be decieved, just proud, conservative, and legalistic, but God's Love can cover all this. In your pride you think it's all those Jehovah's Witnesses, and the Mormons who are decieved, while you have the “truth”. But Mercy for them means Mercy for you!
Shojahan 10 months ago
@philipatoz You are not trying to “lovingly encourage others to accept Jesus and his love” at all. You are trying to get them to accept the same Legalism that was imposed on you so that you like them could be controlled through Fear by your apostate conservative church.. When you Pharisees win a convert, you only make them “twice the son of Hell” because instead of releasing them into Freedom in Christ you only send them further into bondage. Built any new 'Hell Houses' lately?
Shojahan 10 months ago
@philipatoz God is not the legalistic absolutist that you are. You're just projecting your legalism. The Tree of Knowledge of Good & Evil is the black/white fruit of absolutism that you are eating, being fed to you by the Serpent. The Tree of Life, the tree of the coming Kingdom, is wholeness, not duality. The angel in Revelations has his head under the covering of a rainbow, it's colours has infinite shades from One Light, no darkness. Absolutism would render injustices, God is infinitely Just.
Shojahan 10 months ago
There are those who think they are much smarter than others, that their education, etc. makes them superior thinkers. Such typically disdains others they dismiss as the "dull masses." Many of these pseudo -intellectuals insist that millions of "simpletons" have wrongly believed in the classic understanding that those who believe and follow Jesus are saved and others are not. Yet the Bible was written in such a way so that a poor, uneducated dirt farmer can know what he must do to be saved!
philipatoz 10 months ago
@philipatoz
So was the Quran. Point? The masses ARE dull. And this is no more evident in the fact that spirituality is hopelessly splintered and divided. This is strong evidence that spirituality itself is inherently subjective, which leads rational people to a more agnostic slant.
craigblack1234 10 months ago
@craigblack1234, my point isn't about whether the Bible is true - that's a different discussion (though I obviously believe it IS!). My point is elitists and pseudo-intellectuals often assert the Bible's key theological points are unclear - especially those referring to salvation, what it says is required to receive salvation, and what the consequences are of rejecting Jesus. Such people assert that only the highly educated and theologians can properly understand it. It's written so ALL men can!
philipatoz 10 months ago
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Shojahan 10 months ago
@philipatoz I am humble in education, no seminary. Apologists are the pseudo-intellectuals you speak of, using their status in Lunatic Christianity to mislead & deceive the lay-people into thinking the Word of God conforms to legalistic neatness. Their conclusions deny Scripture As It Has Been Revealed. “The blind leading the blind”! Even a poor, uneducated dirt farmer would see what remains Hidden from you: what God says He will do is not always the same as what He then does or will do.
Shojahan 10 months ago
@philipatoz It is you and your legalising apologists who refuse to accept the very words of Jesus. “No staff, no sandals” is what he said. Yet you legalists advocate subtracting from his Word to make them say the opposite for the sake of legalistic conformity. HOW TWISTED and Satanic! The Bible is worthless to you because you are only reading the parts that conform to your legalistic state. Try putting Jesus above your conservative traditions of men and your conservatron church. Love, not Fear.
Shojahan 10 months ago
@philipatoz “Meaningless blather & conjecture”? That's what you label the message of Grace? You realise that under Legalism, you've committed the unforgivable sin, as this is bordering on blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, and now you could be GOING TO HELL!! Fortunately, God isn't the legalist you are, and may still show you Mercy, as much as you keep rejecting it. Not understanding the gospel, you are like the Athenians who dismissed the apostle Paul with “What is this babbler trying to say?”
Shojahan 10 months ago
@Shojahan, you spout meaningless blather and conjecture. YOU are the one who refuses to accept the very words of Jesus. And, incredibly, you call the very ones who lovingly encourage others to accept Jesus, His love, and eternity with Him "evil" and "legalistic?" How twisted! Your problem is you don't like God's clear absolutes. You insist He will accept those who reject Him - despite countless Scriptures clearly stating otherwise. The Bible is worthless to you - you might as well not have it.
philipatoz 10 months ago
The reason God's Love can win is because the Cross has won that Option. But that doesn't automatically mean everyone will go to Life. The complexity of the entire Bible shows, however, that God can exercise that Option if he wants to. Or he can still send everyone to Death -including "Christians" (He's no Legalist). Or he can send some to Life and some to Death. But the point is it's all entirely up to God. The theme of the entire Bible throughout shows that He does prefer Mercy over Judgement.
Shojahan 10 months ago
The idea of Trusting in Love of God for salvation as opposed to “I'm a Christian because I said the sinner's prayer and accepted Jesus, and everyone else goes to Hell” legalism is extremely uncomfortable to Conservatives who don't realise the same Mercy God can show to non-believers is the same that can save them. Speak to any Conservatron and it's clear that they are no Christian, they are only deceived into thinking they are. So why rail against Grace of God? It's the only hope you have.
Shojahan 10 months ago
@Shojahan It is tough to generalize across the "conservatrons" out there (thank you for the new term, I will be using it fondly). Especially when it comes to grace and their own relationship with God. I suppose it's often seen in the difference between those who 'had been saved' and 'are always being saved' by God.
TheCrescentStudios 10 months ago
@TheCrescentStudios 1st - what on earth do you mean by a "conservatron"? 2nd - What do you claim their relationship with God is? Are you judging a motive? A heart? If so, only God can do that, but just want to clarify.
1aliveinchrist 10 months ago
@1aliveinchrist A Conservatron varies from moderate to extreme right wing lunatic who believes that God is Fear, not God is Love. As all Conservatism is ultimately rooted in Absolute Fear, they cling to Religious Legalism for assurance instead of Jesus Christ. They also like clinging to their guns.
Shojahan 10 months ago
@Shojahan Thank you for your description. Perhaps you might want to look at all the generalizing going on there though? What do you make of this verse -- Proverbs 1:7 "The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction." We are also told to fear the one who has control of our bodies and souls. Matt:10:28 says that we are to "fear him which is able to destroy both body and soul in hell." Fearing God is vital, though it doesn't mean He isn't merciful.
1aliveinchrist 9 months ago
@1aliveinchrist My expression is unclear, yes, but I'm not attributing “God is Fear” from “Fear him who is able cast body and soul into Hell”, but rather “Perfect Love drives out all Fear, because Fear has to do with Punishment”. This fits in with the previous quote and its reference to Hell. Now why would apparently-christian Conservatrons be so Frightened, unless they weren't still in bondage to “Man's Fear”: The Fear of Death, which is the Root of All Fears? As it also says in Proverbs (cont)
Shojahan 9 months ago
@Shojahan (Cont) God is to be feared, no doubt. But, we also "love Him because He first loved us." 1 John 4:19 We love him, because he first loved us." Do you not see? God loves us, but that doesn't mean we that He isn't a Holy, Just, and Perfect God who Himself says that we are to FEAR HIM. God Bless.
1aliveinchrist 9 months ago
@1aliveinchrist >>> “Man's Fear (death of the flesh) is a Snare [trap or binding]” Therefore Conservatrons are in bondage to Legalism, which makes them trust in their Fear-Inspired Theological Doctrine Of 'Assurance', instead of Jesus Christ, for salvation. Their Chief Obsessions are therefore of the Flesh; an unscriptural fixation on “traditions of men” such as marriage & family values, Flesh Death, such as abortion and euthanasia, and the less said about Creepy Virginity Pledging, the better.
Shojahan 9 months ago
@Shojahan I honestly have no idea what you are talking about. The Doctrines of Grace, which include "blessed assurance," which we KNOW we can have in Chirst, is not a faith in assurance, but a faith in Christ, which brings assurance. The flesh is important in our sanctification process, as Paul so diligently and fervently points out in Romans 7-8. The battle that we are able to win over sin, is something that we face every day, but praise God we have His strength to do it.
1aliveinchrist 9 months ago
@1aliveinchrist “we must be confessing our sins in order for God to continually forgive us”? Or what? God will hit you with his big stick? I am concerned you have fallen victim to the Ultralegalism of the Aminist heresy. Life must consist of the daily Terror of God's Wrath for you. Perhaps, if as your gospel of “9/11 was an inside job!!!” suggests, this job of terror was done inside you. The log driven through your eye is the crossbeam Christ was crucified on; you see nothing but Death.
Shojahan 9 months ago
@Shojahan (Cont 2) Being free in Christ in NO WAY gives us a license to sin, as Paul also notes in Romans. The great theologian Jonn Owen states it this way in his treatise "Mortifcation of Sin" -- "BE KILLING SIN DAILY OR SIN WILL BE KILLING YOU." I fear you have gone to the other extreme that denies the flesh entirely and says that we are capable of walking only in the spirit - which isn't possible, given what Paul says in Romans, and what John states in 1 John 1:9 - We must be confessing.
1aliveinchrist 9 months ago
@1aliveinchrist It is no surprise that YOU FEAR freedom in Christ, because in your Bondage to the Flesh, you have believed the devil's lie that the only alternative to Legalism is Sin. Who is this Legalist teacher of yours John Owen, stuck in the Useless Duality of “killing sin daily/sin killing you”? No wonder you are still a slave! The only way to overcome the Flesh and have Freedom is by “living according to the Spirit”, not through the idiotic asceticism that Paul disendorsed in Colossians.
Shojahan 9 months ago
@Shojahan (Cont 3) -- we must be confessing our sins in order for God to continually forgive us. This is a major theme bluntly stated in the OT, and it carries through post-cross. Remember, if you say you do not sin, you lie and are not practicing the truth. If you say you have no sin, you lie and the truth is not in you. 1 John 1:6 and 8. Woe to those who do not have the truth IN them, for then they do not have Christ. Perhaps you should look more at your own log, than another's splinter.
1aliveinchrist 9 months ago
@1aliveinchrist “which we KNOW we can have in Chirst”? We can know nothing, unless you're going to say it is Man's action rather than God's decision that saves. What, you think YOU are going to decide that you're saved? You're going to go up to God on Judgement Day and tell him to step aside and let you pass? On what basis? Because you fulfilled the legal requirement for salvation by saying the “sinner's prayer” at some point in your life? Of course, why not, everyone knows Legalism saves!
Shojahan 9 months ago
@Shojahan You're kidding right? I'm an utter and complete monergist totally reformed in my theology, and you are going to lecture me about what I decide vs what God decides? You must either be misreading me or just making up an argument. As far as what we "can know," YOU are the one who will have to deal with 1 John: 1 John 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. This is just ONE exampe of the many in the Bible that tell us.... Cont.
1aliveinchrist 9 months ago
@Shojahan (Cont)....that tell us what we CAN know. How ignorant to think that one cannot know if one is saved or not, when the apostles make it so clear. THe Bible also tells us that we are to be discerning, against false doctrine, false teachers, false Christs, etc. Your statement that "we can know nothing" is so far from the Biblical warning given us, that I wonder if you're getting your theology/doctrine from the Bible or from man? God Bless and I do hope you will read the Bible more.
1aliveinchrist 9 months ago
In that whole 1:48 time segment, the Bible remained closed. That is a giant problem.
youORyourMOTHER 10 months ago
Rob Bell is a genius. Why are so many so angered by what this man says? Why are so many so ok with giving God the attributes we most despise in humans.: Wrath, anger, jealousy, delighting in the suffering of his own son who had to save us from Him. Where is the department of Human Services.? Human children, and animals for that matter, would be taken away from a father displaying these qualities.
lanesue123 10 months ago
@lanesue123 ..most first graders think their teacher is a genius. Grow up.
bella50008 10 months ago
@lanesue123, a so-called genius who doesn't know what he's talking about when it comes to the scriptures, that's about the size of it. I applaud him on the fact that he fits into Bible prophecy about the last days, for if anyone needed proof just read the Word of God and follow along with what you're hearing him say (and a few others to boot). The blind leading the blind and they all fall into that ditch.
jebeja 10 months ago
The fact that Rob Bell refuses to believe what Jesus said, "...they (the unrepentant) will go away to ETERNAL punishment, but the righteous to eternal LIFE." Bell seems to believe that all this "hell talk" is limiting his successful marketing of Jesus. I guess it's not enough to say that Jesus died a brutal, horrible death for US, out of unfathomable love, or that He OFFERS all heaven, that He is willing to forgive ALL who REPENT? If one will reject what Jesus offers, NOTHING will change them!
philipatoz 10 months ago
@philipatoz Yes it is highly dangerous to add to Scripture, it is also HIGHLY dangerous to subtract from Scripture. Why? If you take away Grace to only leave Law, then Law without Grace will likewise be applied to you. You'll be seeing the “rabble getting into the Kingdom of God ahead of you”. It goes without saying that as a Legalist, you are the Unrepentant Unbeliever, so the same Mercy & Grace of God that can save them is what can save stubborn You. So why do you kick against the goads?
Shojahan 10 months ago
It's a HIGHLY dangerous business to go beyond what scripture teaches. Rob is elevating his own personal and hopeful speculations to the level of ultimate truth on a par with scripture. So if I'm an unbeliever, I might well think that since I don't feel led to accept Jesus and can't seem to figure it out, then I'll just lead my life as I want to, because in the end - if all this is true - although God may straighten me out, I'll "win" - the love of God "will save me" - I'll be in heaven anyway.
philipatoz 10 months ago
@philipatoz Now why would Christ be kind to those who do not even wish to know Him? Ask the “unsaved” yourself, and my goodness, they seem to think that in becoming a Christian, they also have to convert to right-wing conservative lunacy. Wonder where they could have got that idea?! Certainly not Sarah Palin or Jerry Falwell! The Unchristian Evil that is Extreme Conservatism is a massive stumbling block, in terms of your precious Legalism, mitigating circumstances, for Christ to consider Mercy
Shojahan 10 months ago
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Awesome! I love it!! If God is perfect then how could they create something imperfect? So perhaps the real test is to just BE who we are! We are all Gods as we are their children. It is our birthright. And the time is now to stand for Light and Love and truly live as Jesus and other Masters have showed us. Only Love Is Real! All else is an illusion.
equinox0909 10 months ago
@equinox0909 You are not far from the Kingdom of God. But the right-wing conservative legalists who say they love God with their mouths but hate Him in their hearts have marked your message about the Love of God as 'Spam', so that it is not visible to any seekers who come to this website. Conservatism (Evil) is the opposite of Christianity (Good), and when you mix them, as the Bible shows, Evil always swallows the Good. Don't worry, I'll be posting here myself, until Good has overcome Evil.
Shojahan 10 months ago
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Awesome! I love it!! If God is perfect then how could they create something imperfect? So perhaps the real challenge is to just BE who we are! We are all Gods as we are their children. It is our birthright. And the time is now to stand for Light and Love and truly live as Jesus and other Masters have showed us. Only Love Is Real! All else is an illusion.
equinox0909 10 months ago
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Awesome! I love it!! If God is perfect then how could they create something imperfect? So perhaps the real challenge is to just BE who we are! We are all Gods as we are their children. It is our birthright. And the time is now to stand for Light and Love and truly live as Jesus and other Masters have showed us. Only Love Is Real! All else is an illusion.
equinox0909 10 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Awesome! I love it!! If God is perfect then how could they create something imperfect? So perhaps the real test is to just BE who we are! We are all Gods as we are their children. It is our birthright. And the time is now to stand for Light and Love and truly live as Jesus and other Masters have showed us. Only Love Is Real! All else is an illusion.
equinox0909 10 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Awesome! I love it!! If God is perfect then how could they create something imperfect? So perhaps the real test is to just BE who we are! We are all Gods as we are their children. It is our birthright. And the time is now to stand for Light and Love and truly live as Jesus and other Masters have showed us. Only Love Is Real! All else is an illusion.
equinox0909 10 months ago
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equinox0909 10 months ago
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equinox0909 10 months ago
Rob Bell is a heretic. He teaches that there is no eternal punishment, even though the Bible clearly teaches eternal punishment for the unsaved(Matthew 25:41). God is love, but He is also holy and just. God doesn't owe salvation to anyone because all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, but He graciously offers salvation to those who will repent and put their faith in Jesus. Those who reject Jesus will spend eternity separated from God in Hell.
James5877 10 months ago
@James5877 and all have sinned and fall short of His glory because He made us fallible. He chose not to make us perfect. Rob Bell is not a heretic. Do you think God gave us a mind and a free will to not question? To not sit here and THINK about what he says? Even if Rob Bell is wrong (which I think he likely is) I think God would commend him for not taking things blindly.
johonoknat 10 months ago
@johonoknat, the problem isn't that Bell questions whether hell and God's punishment of those dying unrepentant are eternal, as YES, from OUR viewpoint it does seem harsh. The problem is Rob, as a pastor with great influence, writes a book emphatically INSISTING, WITH CERTAINTY, that despite the clear teaching of many scriptures, that this is not the case. He insists that "LOVE WINS" despite the fact that those receiving such punishment clearly chose to refuse God and remain in rebellion. Cont.
philipatoz 10 months ago
@philipatoz Rob Bell is not a legalist, and neither is Jesus. Eg1. Jesus said he was not going up to the Feast, and then He went anyway. Is Jesus a liar? Only if he's a legalist. Eg2. Jesus, “It's not my time”, but changed water to wine anyway. Oh no! Alcohol!! Sorry conservatives! Eg3. 2 days & 2 nights instead of 3 days & 3 nights ( One legalist told me Jesus was crucified onWednesday!). Pharisees (Conservativ) put Doctrine first, Saducees (Liberals) put Temple first -Christ is Author of both.
Shojahan 10 months ago
Everything is NOT spiritual - this is new age gnosticism - it is smartly packaged with reverse wrapping but gives license to sin. This is false doctrine!
bobeagle3 10 months ago
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"He's smoking the tires, racing the engine, and burning lots of rubber, but his theological car can't ride down the block, much less get out on the highway."...dang, someone's getting their butt kicked in here for all to see.
kushisaac 10 months ago
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@kushisaac “"He's smoking the tires, racing the engine, and burning lots of rubber, but his theological car can't ride down the block, much less get out on the highway."..dang, someone's getting their butt kicked in here for all to see”| I think the lady doth protest too much. Sadly, what's getting its butt kicked around here is the gospel of Christ by conservative legalists terrorisers who want to high-jack Jesus and force him to fly into the fiery inferno of Hell which they love so dearly
Shojahan 10 months ago
@Shojahan, YOUR definition of legalists is not a SCRIPTURAL one! If Jesus didn't mean there would be a judgment and eternal hell for those rejecting and choosing to remain in rebellion, why did He say so? You accuse those who quote Jesus' own words as being legalists, but not HIM - WHY? According to your "logic," one can't really know what the Bible means, as you see it as so many "contradictions" - all which have long been refuted and explained, and you only SELECTIVELY embrace its teachings.
philipatoz 10 months ago
@Shojahan, I hate to tell you but there WILL be some legalists in heaven - at least if they are truly saved! Legalism is the fallacy of thinking that one's standing before God is based upon HUMAN effort as opposed to "His divine power." Galatians addresses legalism - and note that it was written to people who had ALREADY received the Holy Spirit. Paul was admonishing baby Christians because they were trying to live out the Christian life by keeping the law, which is impossible!
philipatoz 10 months ago
Shojahan, for all of the SUPPOSED scriptural contradictions you revel in, while essentially asserting there is no certainty and only ambiguity in it, yet you are certain there is not eternal punishment, no real accountability. As Jesus IS God, and as HE spoke and warned so much about the consequences of unbelief, rejection and rebellion, and spoke of hell, then either you don't believe His words or, to be consistent, you would have to brand Him a legalist as well. Why NOT?
philipatoz 10 months ago
everything is not spiritual!
its only alive when the Holy Spirit is there
ishytsar 10 months ago
Truth is, @Shojahan's real problem would appear to be with the very words of Jesus Himself. Quote Jesus warnings and he accuses you of being a legalist. Ask for scriptural support that the unrepentant will receive mercy or that they will not receive eternal punishment and he offers no proof. He's smoking the tires, racing the engine, and burning lots of rubber, but his theological car can't ride down the block, much less get out on the highway.
philipatoz 10 months ago
@philipatoz, I agree completely with every point you made about this Shojahan. He is quick to label a believer of ALL of Gods word a "conservative", and he cherrypicks verses to support his unfounded claims when cornered logically. Thats why this Rob Bell disappoints me, of course this is the new age feel good Christianity....how sad. Shojahan also believes that people that believe in Hell are "scared into" salvation, which touches on more fallacies than I care to list.
money4412 10 months ago
@money4412 I label those 'conservatives' who ignorantly cherrypick the Word of God to try and make Jesus the same sexist, racist, homophobic capitalist that they are! That's called projection, not doctrine. It is based on complete, utter and absolute FEAR, not Truth. They are blind to ALL of God's Word, because like the bitter vineyard workers, they HATE HIM for his generosity. They “believe in Hell”, I believe in God. Try reading the entire Bible before you make comment on it. Fear not.
Shojahan 10 months ago
@Shojahan glues together all of these random theology soundbites, contradicts all of these scriptures and yet refuses to believe what they plainly say. He accuses those who wish to take seriously the TOTALITY of scripture as being legalists. Did Jesus ever express there would be mercy for the unrepentant or unbelievers? Absolutely NOT! His mercy is ONLY for those who are willing to repent and accept Him! Further, Jesus Himself warns of judgment for such people - so was JESUS a legalist?
philipatoz 10 months ago
@philipatoz @philipatoz “Refuses to believe what Scriptures plainly say”. This would apply to the apologists. Legalists are unable to handle the complexity the TOTALITYof Scripture, so they engage in painful lexical contortions to DENY the textual incongruencies that God has placed in the Bible for our revelation. Or they DISMISS it as “copyists' error” and thus DENY the doctrince of Inerrancy. Ask an apologist “Did Jesus say to take staff and sandals or not to?” Then sit back for a laugh!
Shojahan 10 months ago
@Shojahan, Google "Apologetics Press Take it or Leave it" to clarify this SUPPOSED contradiction you speak of.
philipatoz 10 months ago
@philipatoz Till now, I thought Miller was the most ridiculous, then I go to page you sent me and this Lyons is referencing Miller! As for his rationalist legalism, Lyons goes through one of the most excruciating lexical loop-the-loops of Hellenist Greek I've ever seen, and after coming out the other side, he's only contradicted himself! He's denied what the Word actually says (how atheist-like!), in order to make it say what he wishes it said, just to give his legalistic mind some peace. Sad
Shojahan 10 months ago
@philipatoz I have a 5/7 in Advanced Greek from a secular university ( no right wing lunatic theology attached) and a 6/7 in Intermediate Hebrew. It's doesn't make me Grand Master, but it's more than enough for me to see when conservative pseudo-intellectuals are abusing their lexicons and deploying morphological contortions in order to deceive gormless lay-people such as yourself. What does the Bible say the fate of false teachers will be? The same as Hell-worshipping legalists I believe
Shojahan 10 months ago
@philipatoz The consistent issue you are having in your interpretation is that you are seeing it only in letter & not in The Spirit too. In literal, I could say, “Paul was writing to Galatians, I'm not Galatian, so it doesn't apply.” So obviously by citing it for our contemporary context, you're not altogether an arch-legalist, but only where your conservative traditions allow you not to be. Now come up a level, otherwise as Jesus said when disciples thought he meant Bread, “Are you so dull?”
Shojahan 10 months ago
@philipatoz Due to taking up too much space on this comment thread, I've sent messages to your Youtube Channel account at different times, not all of them are challenging. The latest one in particular is where I wonder why do you keep relying on gormless apologetics instead of the Word of God as it has been revealed? Do you realise these apologists are adding to and subtracting from Scripture for the sake of legalistic neatness? C.S. Lewis: “He's not a tame Lion”. And that's from an apologist!
Shojahan 10 months ago
@philipatoz Did Jesus ever say there'd be mercy for the unrepentant or unbelievers? No, that would contradict the Law. Solution? Overlook the Law through covering of Grace. How? The Cross. Why? It's the only way legalistic lunatics who mistake themselves for Christians could be saved. God himself stopped being a legalist way back in the Old Testament, kept sparing the unrepentant, How? The Cross. Why? Nobody, including God, likes a stoning. Though jihadists & legalists do of course!
Shojahan 10 months ago
a clever media genius ... "Love Wins" ... Rob Bell should read his bible and stop corruption. Wrong on the Trinity - Read John 3-16 Rob! WRONG on the atonement - Christianity will not "APPEAL TO EVERYONE" which is what you are trying to do...
Read Revalation... a few times.
The bible speaks of "False prophets" in the end times.... my oh my - we must be getting VERY close!
Keith
SQUAREHEAD69 10 months ago
"...He will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the ETERNAL fire prepared for the devil and his angels…they will go away to ETERNAL punishment, but the righteous to eternal LIFE.” So, what about these words spoken by Jesus Himself? And what about the word ETERNAL here suggests there is a second chance for unbelievers and the unrepentant? Note also the contrast in the above verse, that for believers there is ETERNAL life! Was Jesus lying? Mistaken? Not a chance!
philipatoz 10 months ago
@philipatoz Yes, as Paul says “Any who preach a different gospel (going back to legalistic binding) is anathema” Anathema means “the cursed”. I guess that leaves you in a bind, as by your own quoting, you, with your false gospel, are heading to ETERNAL fire! No second chances eh? Well then, as it is written, so you better repent now, in case “your soul is demanded of you this very night”! You probably think all the aborted babies go to Hell, and all those who never heard of Jesus too? Dear me!
Shojahan 10 months ago
I would say that people like @Shojahan are Exhibit A for why preachers like Rob Bell are so dangerous, as they lull such people to believe that no matter what their beliefs or behavior, that at some point, God will accept them - apparently against their will to reject Him (almost like the extreme Calvinist that believes God elects some to belief against their will). Nowhere in the New Testament do we read of a "second chance" beyond this lifetime to be saved. Such belief is hopeful SPECULATION!
philipatoz 10 months ago
@philipatoz What Rob Bell? I have yet to see a single video of his, including the one above. I'm only responding to the teachings others have attributed to him, because it is not for me to judge people, only teachings. My beliefs are based on the Bible, whole of it, not just Law, in which you seem to be stuck. I would say people such as @Philipatoz are why legalists have been so successful in the Church, they lull people into believing that their own actions of contrition can win them salvation.
Shojahan 10 months ago
@Shojahan can assert all he wants that those who believe that the Bible teaches there will be a final judgment and eternal punishment for those who remain in their rebellion to God, he can try to say they are legalists, etc, etc, but at the end of the day Shojahan actually doesn't believe what JESUS HIMSELF said and warned against - he doesn't believe Scripture means what it says. My question is does he not believe in free will to rebel? Does he believe God will allow rebels into the Kingdom?
philipatoz 10 months ago
@philipatoz No I do not believe God will allow rebels into his Kingdom,which should be a worry for legalists such as yourself. You continue ignoring the good news that JESUS HIMSELF proclaimed and insist instead Judgement should triumph over Mercy. You should be careful what you wish for, you may most likely get it! You are like those bitter workers in the vineyard who complained that the paymaster was too generous! 2 days & 2 nights proves that Grace he won allows Jesus to overrule his own Law
Shojahan 10 months ago
@Shojahan I said "heretic" because it accurately describes this mans interpretations of the modern day cult of universalism. I believe that the Christ died for our sin,s to save us from the pure flaming wrath and justice of God..AKA HELL. God done this because he cares and loves us and does not want us to burn in Hell. It's up to you, you can believe Rob Bell or Jesus Christ, either way, Young Rob shall be receive what God wills for him and it is not my placed to condemn a single soul.
BeReady7 10 months ago
@BeReady7 If Young Rob is preaching Grace and Mercy because he has this ridiculous idea that “God is Love” (where does he get these ideas?!) and someone else preaches Law and Judgement because he believes God is Fear, then Jesus would be on Bell's side. On the other side is where you'll find the modern day Pharisees, standing ready with stones in their hands. A lot like Islamic fundamentalists. (Universal salvation may not be a given, but it's up to God how much mercy he wants to show or not.
Shojahan 10 months ago
obviously a closet cocksucker.
Somai82 10 months ago
When the Son of Man comes in his glory...All the nations will be gathered before him…he will separate the people...as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats...sheep on his right …. goats on his left...he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the ETERNAL fire prepared for the devil and his angels…they will go away to ETERNAL punishment, but the righteous to eternal LIFE.”
philipatoz 10 months ago
@philipatoz That is certainly the Law; classic duality -fruit from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, and yes, that tree was planted by God, and the so the Law is just. But are going to keep denying the Grace that Christ' resurrection has won us after his suffering & death? "Three days and three nights" Jesus said he would be in the grave, but he came out after only two days and two nights. Is that not proof enough that Grace will win over Law? You are invoking the spirit of Antichrist.
Shojahan 10 months ago
@Shojahan, for an exploration of how long Jesus was in the tomb compared to what was prophesied and what Scripture teaches, Google: "Carm How long was Jesus dead in the tomb?"
philipatoz 10 months ago
@philipatoz, I couldn't agree more with your assessment of the prophet Rob Bell and Shojahan. Rob Bell's message is a softball version of Christianity that seeks to lure the sheeple who both want to enjoy the pleasures of the world and claim redemption at the Judgement seat. Why follow God's word and live the Christian life when in the end we all will be saved........the lack of accountability in his message is what troubles me......your thoughts on the prophet Rob Bell's message???
money4412 10 months ago
@money4412 You agree with Philipatoz because you belong to the same Pharisiac sect. It's conservatives who want to enjoy the pleasures of the world ; they promote marriage (serving self rather than serving God) because they're worldly. And you're all but admitting that the only reason you are being righteous is because the Bible is telling you too, not because you are a new creation who wants to do the right thing, and that you would do the right thing. even if the Bible did not command you too
Shojahan 10 months ago
@money4412 Do you realize yours is false rightouesness? You're only believing in Jesus out of fear, and you're only doing it in order to avoid Hell? So what would you be doing if there was no hell? Sinning away? I understand: you're projecting your own anxiety onto others: you believe that without the threat of Hell, nobody would be good. Do understand that regenerative work that Christ does? Have you allowed him to do this work in you? You will then be good simply because you want to! Freedom!
Shojahan 10 months ago
@Shojahan, you've lost me and you still haven't answered my question concerning Hell. The "fire and brimstone message" didn't scare me into salvation by the way, Jesus's love and his message did. What I am saying and you've clearly misunderstood is this.....what is the point of the cross if our free will to choose Christ is stripped from us if God's "love" wins in the end anyway? And why does Revelation speak of the Judgement if it doesn't exist???
money4412 10 months ago
@money4412 The only reason God's "love" (why do you put it in quotations? do you see why I think you don't really know God's Love?) can win at all is because the cross has won that option. But that doesn't just mean everyone will go to Life. The complexity of the entire Bible shows, however, that God can exercise that option if he wants to. Or he can still send everyone to Death -including "Christians". Or he can send some to Life and some to Death. But the point is it's all entirely up to God.
Shojahan 10 months ago
@money4412 The prophecy of judgment and destruction on Babylon never came to pass. Only the King, the Head of Babylon (Satan) was cut off, and Babylon itself was spared. God can fulfill all of Revelations if he wishes. It is written, and therefore he has that legal right. The cross is what has given him the right to show grace and mercy instead if he so wishes. Christ’s resurrection after 2 days & 2 nights instead of 3 days & 3 nights, as prefigured in the OT, shows he prefers the latter.
Shojahan 10 months ago