LiveLeak.com - New French Battleship, Horizon Class Destroyer.flv

[hypernova20]

lol. First the title says Battleship and then it says destroyer class.

[TheJEANFB]

@Maverickrad false, they are associated with DCNS and Thales on the French side

[vonchaosb]

@Maverickrad : Just for Italia...

[turgeo2004]

I hope the Germans sink it :) Sorry but just had to say it HA HA!

[blahblah48856]

type 45 is much better so shit is frenchies !

[samados969]

@blahblah48856

Tsssss, shut up englisher

Free bashing, what a shame ...

[marmiedoise]

@blahblah48856 What are your information to tell us that are you really sure?? Before tell us that this ship is shit just remember Exocet mister english and shut up your ugly face!!

[stevencaster]

Battleship?????

[nagamora]

Je peux pas croire que 70% de son pois est au desous de l'eau

[bella73272]

Paradise.....

[rinatys]

красавец !!!

[TobyParr]

That looks like the new type 45 Royal Navy destroyer Lol!:).

[bingofioul]

@TobyParr T-45 has the same combat suite than FREMM, the brits retired from the alliance (FREMM is made by italy and france now)

[OnlyLifeMatters]

@TobyParr Yes it does. But Type 45 was designed only after Royal Navy quit this project...Horizon was before Type 45, you know.

[MCBlizzWorld]

Where is the song from??

[eikkkN]

@fcdenhaag90 What is utility of a radar that see at 800km ? when you don't have any weapons system to shot at it ? The Horizon class have the new Exocet MM40bk3, Aster 30 and Aster 15 with 2*76mm guns. Moreover almost all of your equipements come from Thales, thus really I'm not sure the electronic warfare of the Seven Provinces is better. The Horizon class are destroyers wheras the Seven Provinces are frigates.

[calum341]

@eikkkN What's the point of being able to see further than 2 metres if we can't take steps further than 2 metres?

[eikkkN]

@calum341 that is what I said.

[eikkkN]

@fcdenhaag90 you should use arguments

[eikkkN]

@fcdenhaag90 stop that it's childish

[sbrughi]

What a ship!!

[jojoriri112]

@sbrughi What A FRENCH ship !

[dovic3107]

I like the modern design , may be a country like Russia interests on this kind of frigate

[kouskotte]

un bien meilleur navire que les type 45 anglais !!

[bzhseat]

impressionante et construite à Lorient

[TheCharlie359]

She will probably be used to evacuate French citizens from warzones!

[Mandenframosen]

0:22 the radar reflect the sunlight ?

Is that a part of frog stealth battleship technology or WTF ?

Your stupid arrogant fucks , why the hell you think their is a small mirror in your life jacket ? Stealth or "bling" ?

[aon10003]

@Mandenframosen Its an anti air destroyer. This means that they have to scan the air around the destroyer with powerfull radars every second, Building in stealth against radar is not a plus in this case, the enemy already knows where you are..On the other hand, designers doesnt mind building in stealth when it doesnt cost anything. Like having a flat wall angled 15 degrees. And stealth is important when it comes to underwater sound emission.

[chenoir]

@Mandenframosen

As said aon10003, it's an anti-air frigate, so the fact it flood the air with radar wave make it difficult to hide, as any Anti-air ships.

Anyway, for a ship of this kind, the Horizon Frigate has a very low RCS due to it's materials and geometry.

Plus, it produce very little noise, making it hard to find on sonar, and it's thermal signature is also very low.

Stealth for ships is far from being the same as stealth for aircrafts. And in this domain, French is world leader.

[bingofioul]

@chenoir the low rcs should be use to help the ship evading air to surface missile...i guess ?

[stalkingalizee]

@chenoir Like you said, the EMPAR makes it hard to hide. I wish we made it with a more powerful Herakles AESA. The Smart-L radar is AESA so it would remain passive until EMPAR starts tracking targets.

[chrisfrenchriviera]

@Mandenframosen lol poor man

[s0undActivist]

my god you guys are stupid ...

t45 and fremm uses the SAME missile defense (aster ) and use both a radar with similar abilities.

European countries now share almost all their techs together..

the only real difference is that the t45 uses the Phalanx CIWS when the fremm only have the aster for its defense.

but one is a destroyer and the other is a frigate..

[baltic1284]

@s0undActivist im amazed they made ship with out at least 1 main gun bigger than a 57mm my country navy has i 2 barrel 130mm gun. carries missiles and all and is the Udaloy II Class ( russian navy and kaliningrad navy)

[bingofioul]

@baltic1284 it doesn't matter cause this boat is made for protecting fleet from air threat. and there is a 76mm gun not 57mm

[baltic1284]

@bingofioul i see just look wierd with out on bow sorry

[TheBlackdago]

@s0undActivist the CIWS system of the fremm is composed by 2 cannons of 76mm with guided ammunitions

[GIOALEX06]

......che nave non vedo l'ora di imbarcarmi

[sbrughi]

Fantastic Destroyer!

[lucky9229]

De bien belle images.

[jeanmotorsport]

Hi, the name of the song please?

i hope Brazilian navy buy a Fremm or horizon frigate

[Dibona01]

Le Forbin et Chevalier Paul ,ainsi que le type 45 classe Daring sont des batiments de classe equivalente armés avec les mêmes missiles. Ils sont les vitrines technologique de la vieille europe!!

[drdino1985]

Anybody know the name of the songs?

[stalkingalizee]

The Horizons have their own phased arrays similar to Sampson. The ships AAW capabilities are identical. Horizons and Type 45s both carry PAAMs which is 32 Aster-30 and 16 Aster-15. All of Horizons 48 missiles can be ripple fired and guided to their targets at once.

[alpacks]

@stalkingalizee FAIL ! you speak of the radar not of capacity ripple fired of the missile ...

i saw exactly the capacity of the T45 : just stick all target and folow them like S400 triumph missile radar system ...

is not to fired all missile all in one time ... you dream

especially after fire your 48 missile what do you do after that ? it's just stupid ...

you merge between the capacity of monitoring radar of target and the real capacities of management of missiles

[stalkingalizee]

@alpacks FAIL! S-400 cannot target like a T45 or a Horizon. It can only engage in a 60 degree arc. PAAMs can ripple fire all 48 missiles in under 10 seconds in 360 degrees.  Missile attacks against a strong air defence are not launched 1 at a time or staggard. They are launched in large numbers to overwhelm the defence. Iran would attack this way and Aster could stop it, Russian ships would be overwhelmed from such an attack.

[stalkingalizee]

Horizons can fire all 48 missiles at once. The acquisition radar for Horizons and Type 45 are identical with tracking radars that all meet the limits of the operational capacities. All PAAMs systems have identical engagament capability. Type 45s dont have surface missiles while Horizons do so 45s are less capable.

[stalkingalizee]

Type 45 uses PAAMs same as the Horizon, 45s don't have attack missiles like Exocet IIIs or Teseo so they have even less capability.

[stalkingalizee]

Where do you get that figure? ABs cost $1.6 billion and 45s cost $1.68 billion according to current projections. Horizons cost $1.7 billion and that construction is already finished so I doubt 45s will go much beyond that.

[hitokijb]

ugly... o.o

omg, Brasil will by those stuff o.o"

[gibbsrg]

Having the best is fine and well. But you still need enough of them to present a credible force. Aegis ships may not be the current best anymore (again, software updates to go along with the updated missiles coming on line can redress most competitve shortcomings), but there are a lot of them and they pack far more firepower than Darings. That alone counteracts some of its rate of fire disadvantages.

[gibbsrg]

That is something that can be resolved through software updates for the most part. In either case, 1 every 3 secs is probably enough. Remember, those ships are not the first line of warning or defense. The carrier planes are. Given the limited range of the missiles, if you are in a situation where you need to ripple off all 32 then you are probably already in an untenable situation.

[gibbsrg]

They were retired because the first 5 didn't have the vls launchers.

[gibbsrg]

China may be our big concern now. But given how financially dependent we are on each other, war would be crazy. But then again, more than one country has beaten its debtor to keep fron having to pay..lol New York is the 1st world financial center. Then London. The size of the RN compared to other Euro countries is one thing. The size of it relative to its responsibilities is another. It needs more ships and subs than it has.

[gibbsrg]

But you still need one. Russia is making a comeback and other nations are rising. There is a proliferation of subs going on now. The RN is shinking when others are rising. If Britain expects to remain a world player, they need to stop pretending our military is their solution. Britain is a closer ally than any other country. BAE systems was only allowed to control such a large portion of military contracts here because of that, for example. They own a lot of American military contractors.

[gibbsrg]

I fail to see what that has to do with just 48 tubes. You are still spending plenty on weapons. So if you are going to have a weapon, have one and stop pretending it's something else. We don't love war.  We bleed and die like anyone else. It's the people who know they don't have to go that love it.

[gibbsrg]

I'm American, but I really admire the RN as much as our own navy. But damn, the RN is disappearing. Just 22/23 active destroyers and frigates and maybe 9 SSNs. Where will it all end? I know you are getting new stuff, but not on a one-for-one basis.

[markgoodall]

in fairnes, its not quantity, its quality. 2 new super carriers and 6 new destroyers is plenty, especially given the roles the destroyers posses. we still have another 2 carriers, various amphibious assault craft, and a whole bunch of allies :) their is simply no need for a gigantic navy in this day and age.

[gibbsrg]

But you do need one big enough to fulfill its responsibilities. The RN is stretched to the limit now and getting smaller as others are rising. Those ships you have mentioned are years off....if you get them all, which certainly isn't guaranteed. Technology can't make one ship be in two different places at the same time. You can only cut the number of hulls so much. The 2/3 Invinciple class you have will probably be sold once the QEs come on line....again, if you get both.

[gibbsrg]

Funny, but this is the first I'm hearing of that. Will have to look it up. Thanks

[gibbsrg]

RAF awacs can't be relied upon to cover CBGs once they leave the North Atlantic. No need to even mention them. The French bought AWACs planes from us and there is no rule saying you can't use them over land if need be. As for long range spotters on the QE I'd like to know more, as I know nothing now.

[gibbsrg]

You also have to keep in mind that the French carrier has Hawkeye AEW planes that see hundreds of KMs further than Daring. That being the case, a little less radar capability on the ship isn't necessarily degrading the French CBGs overall defence capability. The Raphales are the first line of defence, not Horizon. QE carriers will have no catapults, thus no Hawkeyes. That places greater responsibility on the Darings for protection. They need the extra ability.

[gibbsrg]

It also cost a lot more, so it should. But that doesn't mean it does. Daring has a more sophisticated radar, but that is really for airborne targets. As far as ship-to-ship fighting and asw goes the Daring is probably no better than Horizon. They both carry PAAMS 30/15. Horizon also looks to have more expansion possibilities. Look at all that forward deck space. I know crew quarters take up some of that below, but it still looks ahead of the Daring in that regard. cont...

[gibbsrg]

You can more easily upgrade Horizon's radar than you can make extra space on the Daring. In fact, Daring's radar, as I understand it, is just a more sophisticated version of what Horizon has. I could be wrong, but that's my understanding. If that is so, then all you need to turn Horizon into Daring is the money for the upgrade. The missiles are exactly the same.

[EuropeanUnionGB]

horizon too only has 48 tubes............

[gibbsrg]

Why can't you Europeans break past this self-imposed 48 limit..lol. Combat persistence and weapons versatility demand this. American ships (also check out the new S. Korean KDX-3..128 tubes) can do everything because they carry enough tubes to carry ENOUGH of everything to be effective. Sm-2s, Sm-3s, tomahawks, asrocs, essm's, harpoons. Daring and Horizon (nor any other Euro ship) just can't match the firepower American ships bring. Try this..48 sm-2s,32 essm's, 8 sm-3s. That's just..cont

[gibbsrg]

the forward array on a Burke or Tyco. The rear array can carry tomahawks, asrocs or whatever the mission may require. Not to mention whatever may be fitted in the future, like maybe a vls anti-ship missile (vls harpoon cancelled) or ballistic missile.

[markgoodall]

they dont need to, there designed for certain missions, and to be friging excelent at it. for example, HMS Daring (the most advanced anti-air warship ever built) is excelent at its role. however it will have only basic anti submarine warfare. American ships are ( with the exception of your excelent carriers) jack of all trades ships. they do all roles to a medicore standard (however seen as their are about 4-5 true blue water navies, this will suffice)

[gibbsrg]

You are kidding, right. To a mediocore standard? Is Aegis mediocore? It is still the standard of measure for air defence systems. Is the tomahawk missile mediocore?  What about the harpoon ascm? The LAMPS helicopter? Our electronic systems and weapons...which many Euro navies (your included) buys. Are they mediocore? Burkes and Tico CGs are still standard barers of their class types. Just ask the S. Koreans, Japanese, Spanish, Australians and Norweigians. They all bought Aegis...cont

[gibbsrg]

Our ships can be jack-of-all traders because of the amout of fire power they can carry....96 to 128 tubes vs 48 for Daring. So we can put 2 helicopters plus enough asrocs, harpoons, tomahawks, essm(4 per tube), sm-2s and 3s on our ships (plus future weapons) in to be effective at anything and everything at once if need be. Of course, the load can also be mission specific. Darings have no such flexibility because of so few tubes....and little room for expansion without removing the gun.

[gibbsrg]

Allow me to correct my bad spelling. The word is "mediocre".

[crazymotionride]

i like the tall tower bit , better for hoisting the white flag good thinking

[xiaofeng71]

Brits always think they're better than French but in Malvinas 1982, Brit technology was a joke. Their most modern destroyer Sheffield was very easily hit by an exocet and become crap. Now the same fate for T45 if it faces Horizon.

[TheCharlie359]

HAHAHAHAHAHA! U must b on crack! Hms Daring is far more advanced than this cost effective piece of French floating trash!

[Apocholypse]

The reason for Daring, is because Horizons defence capabilities were not good enough for the Navy.  Actually, 1982, the ships were designed for, but the Government stripped it of its air defence systems to save costs. Britain doesn't have a problem with French, the problem is, French people say nasty things that make us unhappy. If you buy me an ice cream i'll forgive you?

[jorehir]

Hahaha!!! Is it a joke??

Daring Type was "developed" from the project Orizzonte/Horizon. Next time, before you insult our engineers, you have to read more about. So you'll see that British copied design of italian-french destroyer (and not only that!!!)

[EuropeanUnionGB]

Horizon was a French, British and italian project, but the british requierd differant capabilities

so instead we came up with the T 45 which included alot of the Horizon project but also new designs as well

so reality is the T 45 is not a copy as much of the Horizon was british any way to start with

all I know is the T 45 has been haild as the worlds most powerful and deadly destroyer on earth

[gibbsrg]

I seriously question that it's the most powerful. The British tend to be a bit sensationalistic..lol. Now its radar may be arguably the most advanced (I'm sure aegis advocates will argue otherwise). But with just 48 missile tubes and only hangar space for one chopper, it fares poorly against American aegis ships in firepower. And as far as I know, the missile tubes on t-45s aren't nearly as versatile when it comes to the types of weapons it can carry....continued below

[gibbsrg]

But with just 48 tubes, it doesn' t matter. T-45s can't afford to give up SAMs to carry say, cruise missiles or ASROCs. American Burkes carry 96 vls tubes and the latter ones also have 2 heli hangars. Ticos have 128 tubes and 2 hangars. Daring is way too big to be so poorly armed. And I don't readily see any real growth potential without a major redesign. There is provision for 8 harpoons, but beyond that, what? All that technology and size with so little armament. Not good.

[EuropeanUnionGB]

darings size and design enables it to be fitted with any current and future wepons avaliable...........making it future proof and if needed we can quckly refit the destroyer.

48 tubes is enough, and the UKs FSC projects includes a 9,000 ton t45 (frigate) with arouns 60+ tubes

[gibbsrg]

Yes, you can always fit updated weapons, but I'm talking about numbers. If 48 is all you have, then that's it. You can replace older missiles with new ones on any ship. I'm talking about it's lack of firepower. That won't be so easily corrected. Where would more tubes go without removing something else, like the gun? Maybe you could squeeze a few where the harpoons are allocated. But then you have no anti-ship ability. FSC is a whole different ship. That won't fix T-45s shortcomings.

[EuropeanUnionGB]

t45 was designed to be able to be re fitted with more tubes (max is around 80) with out replacing any current wepons.

t45 has a max weight of 8,000+ tons (much larger than horizon) hence darings size allows it to up grade with any wepons with out replacing current wepons...............

any way id rarther have 6 t45s than just 2 horizon

[gibbsrg]

I am American, not French. That makes me an AEGIS man..lol And where would those extra 32 tubes go? Remove the gun? I mentioned that the only way to add more would be to remove the gun or cram some in where the harpoons are allocated. You will definately have to give something up to add more tubes.

[NorthPlum]

What's with going overkill on VLS tubes.

At the end of the day they will be going around the world in a task group of a carrier and 5 other ships along with a submarine.

The other VLS tubes only pose greater costs in the long-term.

Tell me, how many AEGIS equipped ships have fired any more than 48 rockets in one go on their VLS tubes in terms of in an act of aggression? I'll tell you. None.

With a task group, you don't need any more. You need a reliable RADAR system, which is T-45.

[gibbsrg]

You can argue the point of greater cost in the long run, but that's not really the argument. And I doubt that was the motivation for only 48 tubes. More tubes means more combat persistence and versatility of armament. You can always leave some empty in peace time to save money. Or you can follow the Dutch example with the De Zevens and leave space for expansion. Daring carries just 48 sams. Burkes can carry that PLUS asrocs, tomahawks, ESSM's(4 per tube), ABM's and whatever else will fit.

[gibbsrg]

cont. from above.... The RN has way too few ships and budget for specialty ships. They need multi-purpose platforms. Having just 48 tubes doesn't really allow that option, as they will be allocated exclusively to sea vipers. Burkes can do it all. Lets say, for example..48 sm-2s, 8 tubes for essm(4 per tube), 8 sm-3s(ABM missiles). That's just the forward vls array. ASROCS and tomahawks can go in the 32 cell rear array, or whatever the mission may require. Daring can't do that with just 48

[gibbsrg]

As sophisticated as the t-45 radar is, it is still a ship based system. For CBG's you need an airborne platform like the Hawkeye. That extends your visibility hundreds of KMs. But since your QE class carriers won't have catapults, I can't immediately see how that will be resolved. The heli based system you developed was not a satisfactory solution. Hawkeyes are for the early warning. Darings are for destruction of any incoming weapons that survive the fighters, the first line of defence.

[gibbsrg]

Let me correct my bad spelling..lol "later", not "latter"

[stewban007]

Those bastards just copid the Daring Class!

[syntaxerror9]

no YOU just copied the Horizon class!

[gibbsrg]

Neither of you copied anything. Daring and Horizon are siblings with different systems for different needs by different former partners.

[lP3aceMak3rl]

Hmm... Sleek design. Is it detected on radar?

[SuperTaeyoung]

oh~! it's good design

[Waldganger64]

Hallucinant la vitesse de cette frégate!!

[murasm]

awesome ship...

[BRRUUUAAHH]

check this also = SEA TIGER

[alexrachwal]

i think the type 45 is a better ship though

[neophyte777]

True, but its bigger, more expensive and serves another role, so you can't really compaire them.

[alexrachwal]

very true =)

[alexrachwal]

what is that music that comes on in the second part coz i really like it?????

=)

[alexrachwal]

so cool!

[Cougar133]

ce sont les batiments les plus puissament armés de la marine française :

Un système anti aérien de 48 missiles Aster 15 ou 30 disposés dans des silos de lancement verticaux, associé à un radar multifonction EMPAR

- 8 missiles Exocet MM40 Block 3

- 2 systèmes Sadral

- 2 canons de 76mm

- 2 tubes lance torpilles MU90

- 2 canons de 20mm mod. F2

........

les anglais se sont rétirés du programme horizon et ont developpé leur propre frégate , équipé de radars et armements différents

[xXGammaShadowXx]

that is not a battleship thats a destroyer

[Waldganger64]

Yeah, but real battleships are obsolete since a few decades... I guess warship and battleship are now two generic words.

[Englishcunts]

good but not as Good as the British Daring class, plus this Horizon Class has capabilities more like a frigate than a destroyer. thats why thr UK left the program, and bult a bigger more indapendant and above all powerful ship the HMS Daring

[zrepeels]

How many will the French have?

[05pittsd]

That looks incredibly like the Hms Daring look it up

[bagotc]

That is because the British were part of the Horizon program and left, thus they based their destroyer on the development and studies already done.... hence the Daring looks like that, if anything its the British that copied.

[ursa0maior]

Does anybody know the name of the second song on this video?