YOU CANNOT GET A RELIBLE DNA SAMPLE FURTHER BACK THAN A THOUSAND YEARS. THE BOOK OF MORMON PEOPLE GO BACK THOUSANDS SO THERE IS NO WAY TO GET A OLD ISRAELITE (JACOBITE) SAMPLE TO COMPARE WITH IN THE FIRST PLACE. ''ISRAELITE DNA'' - INDEED!
@knowtheonetruegospel I gave you a way that the current data could fit the Book of Mormon, you just told me I was wrong, which doesn't prove anything. Also there are many things in the bible that can not be proven by scientific data, like the flood, the ten tribes dispersing themselves, but I still believe in it.
@knowtheonetruegospel We are saying if there is a God then of course a change of skin color is possible. And I actually do understand biology, and it is possible to change ones skin color, (Michael Jackson proves that) we just do not have the understanding and knowledge to do it on a wide scale.
Funny that there is now no scientific evidence of migration to America from Israel. I (a non-Mormon) came up with enough evidence (none from LDS sources) to convince my Jewish anthropogy prof. in 1974 that at least the some of Indians came from Israel.
Also we know the lost tribes blended into hte rest of the world - but obviously there is no genetic evidence - DILUTION.
Funny that there is now no scientific evidence of migration to America from Israel. I (a non-Mormon) came up with enough evidence (none from LDS sources) to convince my Jewish anthropogy prof. in 1974 that at least the some of Indians came from Israel.
DNA doesn't disprove the Book of Mormon, if there is a change in skin color then guess what? You will have a change in DNA along with that. Science actually goes along with the Mormon Church, believe it or not we actually thought of conservation of energy way before it was accepted.
Mitochondrial DNA has proved a marvelous tool for tracing human history. Mothers pass it down to offspring almost intact—unlike nuclear DNA, the genetic material commonly used in criminal investigations ("Haven't Got a Clue? Maybe DNA Will Do," U.S. News & World Report, July 24, 2000).
The problem for Mormonism is that mitochondrial DNA supports the view that the principal ancestors of Native Americans were people from eastern Asia.
You can't trust someone else to do your thinking and studying for you. You have a personal responsibility to God to earnestly seek the truth, and to not ignore God if you sense He's calling you back to the Bible to find His truths there.
The people on this movie have already gotten one thing wrong. Lehi and his family were of the tribe of Mannaseh not Judah. They are not Jews. Also, the claim that you can have complete genetic evidence to that period is false considering that around 90% of the native population was killed off and then many of them intermarried. Also, most of the records of the natives were DESTROYED. Evidence gone. The Lamanites were definitely not the only inhabitants thus changing the gene pool further.
As far as religion goes, however, I think it best to be tolerant of others' beliefs.
Mormons demand tolerance for their beliefs, yet they hold other beliefs in contempt. When confronted with their positions through documented writings of their church leaders, they attempt to skirt the issue by marginalizing those positions with the "taken out of context" excuse that LDS is so famous for.
I'm tolerant of an individual's right to believe. I've broken bread with religious leaders of many denominations, and I continue to do so.
We have some interesting dialogues, and more than a few of them use me as a foil; that's fine with me; it shows that they are thinking, not just parroting.
The introduction to the 1981(LDS) The Book of Mormon states,"The Lamanites are the principal ancestors of the American Indians."
"...WHITE...and DELIGHTSOME...the Lord God did cause a SKIN OF BLACKNESS to come upon them (2 Nephi 5:21)."
LDS PROPHET Spencer W. Kimball said: I saw a striking contrast in the progress of the Indian people today...they are now becoming WHITE and DELIGHTSOME, as they were promised...General Conference Report, October, 1960. Improvement Era,December 1960, pp.922-923
The Book of Mormon is the word of God. I challenge you to read the whole thing one of these days, and not just the parts the anti-mos tell you to read.
...when God made man in his own image...he made him WHITE. We have no record of any of God's favored servants being of a BLACK RACE....every angel who ever brought a message...was...WHITE...
- LDS The Juvenile Instructor, Vol. 3, page 157
BLACK SKIN!
...Cain...HE BECAME THE FATHER OF AN INFERIOR RACE...MILLIONS OF SOULS HAVE COME INTO THIS WORLD CURSED WITH A BLACK SKIN and have been denied the privilege of Priesthood..." (The Way to Perfection,
I read it, I prayed about it, a sense of peace came over me, and a small quiet, but powerful voice came to me, and said, "no, it (the LDS church) is not true, I am here." The BOM is a fiction work, blended with the bible, made up and fabricated by Joseph Smith, a pack of lies for his own profit.
Well, as someone raised a Jehovah's Witness I am shocked to feel a definitive empathy for how the Mormon's respond to this issue. I just wish the governing body had such a laze faire attitude to doctrine and discussion.
MORMON CENTRAL-JOSEPH SMITH-LDS TEMPLES-BOOK OF MORMON
Everyone this contains archaelogical evidence in full description pertaining to the once great civilizations concerning the Book of Mormon and it's authenticity.
Same rehashed, recycled garbage from LDS Shillster Inc.!!
Your "evidences" are cloaked in such lame qualifiers as "plausible", could have been" may someday prove to be", & "'can't be completely discounted" along with the tired old cliche, "absence of proof does not equal proof of absence"!!
BoM is poorly writen religious fiction, nothing more!
It is NOT up to the World to prove the People and the Cities in the BOM were real, It is up to LDS to PROVE IT, because LDS says it is "Recorded History", and the LDS is the "Only True Chruch"... But as of 2008 they still have not proven anything, No Cities, No Weapons, No graves, No Maps, No Archeology of any kind have been found, Now on the other hand the Book of Abraham has been proven to be a fake with out a doubt, (except for of course blind Mormons) who could care less for the truth.
As soon as the evidence is in showing how false the BOM is another ruling will come down from their present prophet claiming that god spoke to him and there is a change to the book to clarify the issue.
This bullshit CULT has been feeding bullshit to it's members for 200 years.
LDS quietly changed The Book of Mormon to read that the (ficticious) Lamanites were "AMONG" The Ancestors" of the Meso-American Indian, as opposed to being "The PRINCIPLE Ancestors".
KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK GUYS...we all know everything outside the Holy Bible is FALSE for satan himself appears as an angel of light(2 COR.11:13-15)and any time a group or individual writes their own book apart from God's Written Word(THE HOLY BIBLE)this is just as Christ Himself Predicted about the end times!
Okay, well with all due respect, as you seem to be a respectful person yourself which I appreciate, you're now just throwing science out the window entirely. God punished the lamanites by altering their DNA? The Book of Mormon, to my knowledge, never says that the mark that God laid upon the lamanites was dark skin.
I appreciate your response but it's impossible to have a civil argument with a person who can simply throw out logic and say that God did this or that. What if I told you that God made unicorns but then destroyed all evidence of them? You couldn't prove me wrong but logic would certainly cause you to doubt such a baseless argument. Same holds true for God turning the Native American's dna from hebrew to asian.
Unfortunately you don't understand what the research has and hasn't demonstrated jaquefois. It has demonstrated clearly that the American Continent was indeed populated by nations of people coming from the Asian land mass lending credibility to the baring strait theory. But Joseph Smith himself mused as much, even in his day. The new (and exciting) research does NOT conclude that the Book of Mormon story is false, and actually is no commentary on the book whatsoever.
(cont..) To think that all DNA lines and all peoples have been sampled is incredibly false. Anti Mormons salivate over it, but come on, you know as well as I they aren't the most intelligent or educated group we are dealing with here.
Okay well the Book of Mormon states in the preface that the Lamanites are the ancestors of the Native Americans. The only time I have heard anything suggesting anything other than the Indians are Lamanites (from LDS members) it has been when the DNA evidence argument comes up.
(cont.) Everything the prophets said on this issue suggested that Indians were from Israel. All these arguments saying that there were other people who came over and diluted the DNA to the point of being unrecognizable is revisionism, plain and simple.
What about evidence showing the great battles that took place in the U.S. according to the BOM?
What about the fact that no one waw those gold plates and they don't exist?
What abou the fact that Joseph Smith was a convict, a liar, a thief, an adulterer and a con-man?
None of these issues bother you and you wish to blindly and ignorantly follow the BOM even though it has been altered 4000 times in less than 200 years.
There is no simple way to determine the validity of the Book of Mormon by the analysis and comparison of Hebrew and Amerindian DNA. We do not know what ancient Israelite or Nephite/Lamanite DNA looked like and modern Jewish populations may not reflect Israelite ancestry because of intermarriage and conversion over the past few thousand years.
while the genetic make up of modern day israelites has been deluded that still isn't enough to refute DNA evidence which tells us that Native Americans came from Asia. Whether or not The Jewish people have deluded their genes in no way effects this concrete evidence.
jaquefois: I understand your point of view and in different circumstances would agree entirely. First, not all individuals who populate south America today are expected to be direct descendents from the house of Israel due migrations from other parts of the world since the Book of Mormon era. Also, the DNA of the Lamanites would have been altered when they were given when their skin color was darkened and wouldn't match up with their ancestors.
YOU CANNOT GET A RELIBLE DNA SAMPLE FURTHER BACK THAN A THOUSAND YEARS. THE BOOK OF MORMON PEOPLE GO BACK THOUSANDS SO THERE IS NO WAY TO GET A OLD ISRAELITE (JACOBITE) SAMPLE TO COMPARE WITH IN THE FIRST PLACE. ''ISRAELITE DNA'' - INDEED!
MrMFHORN 2 months ago
@knowtheonetruegospel I gave you a way that the current data could fit the Book of Mormon, you just told me I was wrong, which doesn't prove anything. Also there are many things in the bible that can not be proven by scientific data, like the flood, the ten tribes dispersing themselves, but I still believe in it.
TylerG1237 1 year ago
@TylerG1237 What flood are you talking about?
kindatall 1 year ago
@kindatall The flood of Noah's time. Most Christians believe in it, yet there is no archeological proof.
TylerG1237 1 year ago
@knowtheonetruegospel We are saying if there is a God then of course a change of skin color is possible. And I actually do understand biology, and it is possible to change ones skin color, (Michael Jackson proves that) we just do not have the understanding and knowledge to do it on a wide scale.
TylerG1237 1 year ago
Funny that there is now no scientific evidence of migration to America from Israel. I (a non-Mormon) came up with enough evidence (none from LDS sources) to convince my Jewish anthropogy prof. in 1974 that at least the some of Indians came from Israel.
Also we know the lost tribes blended into hte rest of the world - but obviously there is no genetic evidence - DILUTION.
jzwillows 1 year ago
Funny that there is now no scientific evidence of migration to America from Israel. I (a non-Mormon) came up with enough evidence (none from LDS sources) to convince my Jewish anthropogy prof. in 1974 that at least the some of Indians came from Israel.
jzwillows 1 year ago
DNA doesn't disprove the Book of Mormon, if there is a change in skin color then guess what? You will have a change in DNA along with that. Science actually goes along with the Mormon Church, believe it or not we actually thought of conservation of energy way before it was accepted.
TylerG1237 1 year ago
HAHA lies. And if not lies, they they just Dna tested the wrong people.
chrstilen5 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Mitochondrial DNA has proved a marvelous tool for tracing human history. Mothers pass it down to offspring almost intact—unlike nuclear DNA, the genetic material commonly used in criminal investigations ("Haven't Got a Clue? Maybe DNA Will Do," U.S. News & World Report, July 24, 2000).
The problem for Mormonism is that mitochondrial DNA supports the view that the principal ancestors of Native Americans were people from eastern Asia.
61MAF 1 year ago
You can't trust someone else to do your thinking and studying for you. You have a personal responsibility to God to earnestly seek the truth, and to not ignore God if you sense He's calling you back to the Bible to find His truths there.
whatuptom 2 years ago
The people on this movie have already gotten one thing wrong. Lehi and his family were of the tribe of Mannaseh not Judah. They are not Jews. Also, the claim that you can have complete genetic evidence to that period is false considering that around 90% of the native population was killed off and then many of them intermarried. Also, most of the records of the natives were DESTROYED. Evidence gone. The Lamanites were definitely not the only inhabitants thus changing the gene pool further.
crazyawesomemormon 2 years ago
Mac and out:
Fools mock, but they shall mourn
heyman537 2 years ago
We now KNOW, beyond the shadow of doubt, that the Amerindians were NOT of Jewish descent.
What self-respecting "Jewish Indian" would have sold Manhattan for a mere $25.00 ??
Outlaw1257 2 years ago
Well that's kind of stereotyping.
But rumor has that is they would have put that $25 in the bank, with compounded interest it would have grown to $50 billion today.
As far as religion goes, however, I think it best to be tolerant of others' beliefs. Outlaw, do you believe in God?
heyman537 2 years ago
As far as religion goes, however, I think it best to be tolerant of others' beliefs.
Mormons demand tolerance for their beliefs, yet they hold other beliefs in contempt. When confronted with their positions through documented writings of their church leaders, they attempt to skirt the issue by marginalizing those positions with the "taken out of context" excuse that LDS is so famous for.
Outlaw1257 2 years ago
No matter what you say, I'm still tolerant of your beliefs, just as pretty much all off the other members of the church I know.
Are you tolerant of the beliefs of others?
heyman537 2 years ago
Heyman Wrote:
Are you tolerant of the beliefs of others?
I'm tolerant of an individual's right to believe. I've broken bread with religious leaders of many denominations, and I continue to do so.
We have some interesting dialogues, and more than a few of them use me as a foil; that's fine with me; it shows that they are thinking, not just parroting.
Outlaw1257 2 years ago
The introduction to the 1981(LDS) The Book of Mormon states,"The Lamanites are the principal ancestors of the American Indians."
"...WHITE...and DELIGHTSOME...the Lord God did cause a SKIN OF BLACKNESS to come upon them (2 Nephi 5:21)."
LDS PROPHET Spencer W. Kimball said: I saw a striking contrast in the progress of the Indian people today...they are now becoming WHITE and DELIGHTSOME, as they were promised...General Conference Report, October, 1960. Improvement Era,December 1960, pp.922-923
Ilegalplayer 2 years ago
Well it's good that you have learned how to read.
The Book of Mormon is the word of God. I challenge you to read the whole thing one of these days, and not just the parts the anti-mos tell you to read.
heyman537 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
heyman5 This is the MORMON GOD CURSING AMERICAN INDIANS BLACK--->
"...the Lord God did cause a skin of BLACKNESS to come upon them (Book of Mormon 2 Nephi 5:21)"
This is the MORMON GOD CURSING AFRICANS BLACK --->
"..the LORD shall CURSE the land..A BLACKNESS came upon all the(BLACK AFRICANS)..of Canaan,that they were despised among all people..(Moses7:8)"
This is the MORMON GODS PROPHET,SEER and REVELATOR He knows the FUTURE!
Joseph Smith "...rebellious NIGGERS..." (Millennial Star,22:602)"
Ilegalplayer 2 years ago
WHITE SKIN!
...when God made man in his own image...he made him WHITE. We have no record of any of God's favored servants being of a BLACK RACE....every angel who ever brought a message...was...WHITE...
- LDS The Juvenile Instructor, Vol. 3, page 157
BLACK SKIN!
...Cain...HE BECAME THE FATHER OF AN INFERIOR RACE...MILLIONS OF SOULS HAVE COME INTO THIS WORLD CURSED WITH A BLACK SKIN and have been denied the privilege of Priesthood..." (The Way to Perfection,
Joseph Fielding Smith,pages 101-102.
Ilegalplayer 2 years ago
I read it, I prayed about it, a sense of peace came over me, and a small quiet, but powerful voice came to me, and said, "no, it (the LDS church) is not true, I am here." The BOM is a fiction work, blended with the bible, made up and fabricated by Joseph Smith, a pack of lies for his own profit.
blugularis 2 years ago
So you think founding the church and writing the book of mormon was a money making thing for him?
There's so much about Joseph Smith that you don't know. You can read all the anti-mo stuff out there but it won't lead you to the truth.
I know Joseph Smith helped restore the church of Jesus Christ.
heyman537 2 years ago
That fictional book is too long for me to read. Im gonna come up with a more exicing book called the chronicles of the mormons
iateran 2 years ago
Well, as someone raised a Jehovah's Witness I am shocked to feel a definitive empathy for how the Mormon's respond to this issue. I just wish the governing body had such a laze faire attitude to doctrine and discussion.
taiyogenki 3 years ago
Google this...
MORMON CENTRAL-JOSEPH SMITH-LDS TEMPLES-BOOK OF MORMON
Everyone this contains archaelogical evidence in full description pertaining to the once great civilizations concerning the Book of Mormon and it's authenticity.
CatholicsRantiGods 4 years ago
CartholicRant:
None of this so-called "archaeological evidence" LDS is attempting to pawn off has withstood objective peer review or critical analysis.
Outlaw1257 4 years ago
"Evidence", AntiCatholicRants??
Same rehashed, recycled garbage from LDS Shillster Inc.!!
Your "evidences" are cloaked in such lame qualifiers as "plausible", could have been" may someday prove to be", & "'can't be completely discounted" along with the tired old cliche, "absence of proof does not equal proof of absence"!!
BoM is poorly writen religious fiction, nothing more!
Outlaw1257 4 years ago
not to mention where are the metal weapons of the nephytes lol metal dont break down in 200 years
Gutcheckcoming 3 years ago
Why would anyone go to a lier fro the truth?
splitspeeds 3 years ago
It is NOT up to the World to prove the People and the Cities in the BOM were real, It is up to LDS to PROVE IT, because LDS says it is "Recorded History", and the LDS is the "Only True Chruch"... But as of 2008 they still have not proven anything, No Cities, No Weapons, No graves, No Maps, No Archeology of any kind have been found, Now on the other hand the Book of Abraham has been proven to be a fake with out a doubt, (except for of course blind Mormons) who could care less for the truth.
splitspeeds 3 years ago
As soon as the evidence is in showing how false the BOM is another ruling will come down from their present prophet claiming that god spoke to him and there is a change to the book to clarify the issue.
This bullshit CULT has been feeding bullshit to it's members for 200 years.
MACKATTACK1970 4 years ago
MACKATTACK;
Your prediction has already come to pass.
LDS quietly changed The Book of Mormon to read that the (ficticious) Lamanites were "AMONG" The Ancestors" of the Meso-American Indian, as opposed to being "The PRINCIPLE Ancestors".
Outlaw1257 4 years ago
KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK GUYS...we all know everything outside the Holy Bible is FALSE for satan himself appears as an angel of light(2 COR.11:13-15)and any time a group or individual writes their own book apart from God's Written Word(THE HOLY BIBLE)this is just as Christ Himself Predicted about the end times!
darizzle7 4 years ago
Okay, well with all due respect, as you seem to be a respectful person yourself which I appreciate, you're now just throwing science out the window entirely. God punished the lamanites by altering their DNA? The Book of Mormon, to my knowledge, never says that the mark that God laid upon the lamanites was dark skin.
jaquefois 4 years ago
I appreciate your response but it's impossible to have a civil argument with a person who can simply throw out logic and say that God did this or that. What if I told you that God made unicorns but then destroyed all evidence of them? You couldn't prove me wrong but logic would certainly cause you to doubt such a baseless argument. Same holds true for God turning the Native American's dna from hebrew to asian.
jaquefois 4 years ago
Unfortunately you don't understand what the research has and hasn't demonstrated jaquefois. It has demonstrated clearly that the American Continent was indeed populated by nations of people coming from the Asian land mass lending credibility to the baring strait theory. But Joseph Smith himself mused as much, even in his day. The new (and exciting) research does NOT conclude that the Book of Mormon story is false, and actually is no commentary on the book whatsoever.
BFTRAVIS 4 years ago
(cont..) To think that all DNA lines and all peoples have been sampled is incredibly false. Anti Mormons salivate over it, but come on, you know as well as I they aren't the most intelligent or educated group we are dealing with here.
BFTRAVIS 4 years ago
Okay well the Book of Mormon states in the preface that the Lamanites are the ancestors of the Native Americans. The only time I have heard anything suggesting anything other than the Indians are Lamanites (from LDS members) it has been when the DNA evidence argument comes up.
jaquefois 4 years ago 2
(cont.) Everything the prophets said on this issue suggested that Indians were from Israel. All these arguments saying that there were other people who came over and diluted the DNA to the point of being unrecognizable is revisionism, plain and simple.
jaquefois 4 years ago
What about evidence showing the great battles that took place in the U.S. according to the BOM?
What about the fact that no one waw those gold plates and they don't exist?
What abou the fact that Joseph Smith was a convict, a liar, a thief, an adulterer and a con-man?
None of these issues bother you and you wish to blindly and ignorantly follow the BOM even though it has been altered 4000 times in less than 200 years.
Ignorance is bliss.
MACKATTACK1970 4 years ago
and knowledge is power.
powergurlmew123 2 years ago
There is no simple way to determine the validity of the Book of Mormon by the analysis and comparison of Hebrew and Amerindian DNA. We do not know what ancient Israelite or Nephite/Lamanite DNA looked like and modern Jewish populations may not reflect Israelite ancestry because of intermarriage and conversion over the past few thousand years.
ldspreachmygospel 4 years ago
while the genetic make up of modern day israelites has been deluded that still isn't enough to refute DNA evidence which tells us that Native Americans came from Asia. Whether or not The Jewish people have deluded their genes in no way effects this concrete evidence.
jaquefois 4 years ago
jaquefois: I understand your point of view and in different circumstances would agree entirely. First, not all individuals who populate south America today are expected to be direct descendents from the house of Israel due migrations from other parts of the world since the Book of Mormon era. Also, the DNA of the Lamanites would have been altered when they were given when their skin color was darkened and wouldn't match up with their ancestors.
ldspreachmygospel 4 years ago