What´s wrong with purchasing non-deducible health insurance (which covers even minor illness) by oneself and still company would pay the workers same amount which they are paying in high-deducible?
How much extra money should you pay for non-deducible compared to high-deducible?
Like I said at least we'd get the care in Canada and wouldn't have to take out a large loan to get it. Also if it's serious a person wouldn't have to wait too long
If I am having a medical emergency, should I have to worry about if I am going to lose my apartment to pay for this? Or maybe if I shop around I might just lose the car.
I guess that is where my choice as an individual comes in. I have the CHOICE to either lose the apartment or lose the car.
So your argument is that it's better to be dependent on a government-run health care system? Shit, did you watch the other parts of the news piece? I like how people seem to think socialized medicine is cost-effective, efficient, consistently high quality and will last forever. Both private and public health care systems have horror stories on both sides, but one is fixable while the other isn't.
@MaddDogg81 it IS better if you are lazy, irresponsible, uneducated, and completely useless. BUT you make the hard-working, educated, responsible people pay double so you can be an idiot. Is that fair?
everyone pays taxes idiot. We in Canada might pay a slightly higer tax rate I'm not sure but would you rather pay a but lower tax and have $10,000-100,000+ in personal debt. Also we don't get denied care because of a previous condition for important care. In some provinces we pay a Medical Services Plan fee per month but only higher income people pay it and it's only like $10a month for a person making like $21,000 a year and maybe $40 for a family with an income of about 50,000+ a year
@MaddDogg81 SOOOOOO, you pay more intaxes, and get worse care. How is that good. If I need an MRI or a CTscan I don't want to have to wait 2 months like Canada. In 2 months you may be dead already.
@svvmichael1 Not getting the point. What about those people who CAN't AFFORD to get an MRI or CT Scan. An with your lovely economy down there, there is a whole lot more people that can't afford it. But I guess with your thinking they deserve to die. Stupid family got layed off because company went bankrupt. Deserves to die. Wow, apparently there is no one more important than you. Typical US attitude. ME ME ME and screw the rest I sure hope you never loose your job moron
@MrJimdandy63 1) Canadians pay more taxes and get much WORSE care. You have gov't officials that come here to get care because they know your system can barely handle basic care. 2) Nearly everyone can get insurance in the U.S. fool, stop lying. 3) The ME,ME,ME USA? Do you think Canada would be free-ish without us? How about the UK, France, Poland, Belgium, Taiwan,etc,etc,etc. EPIC FAIL.
@svvmichael1 Wow, you really beleive you have a better system of health care. 1) Yes we pay a higher median tax and WE DO NOT HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THAT. 2) In Canada EVERYONE IS COVERED, not just the fortunate that can afford insurance. And the words PRE EXISTING CONDITION does not apply in Canada. You have 30,000,000 that aren't covered WHY 3) Thats like saying where would America if Flemming didn't invent penicillin. Old news buddy, its called the new millenium.
@MrJimdandy63 You are wrong on everything. You need to get an education 1)You should, taxes are theft. BTW, you must be a low-income person, because I know many middle and upper-income canadians who DO have a problem with it. 2) In the USA 90% of everyone is covered on their own. 90%. And our care is FAR FAR FAR superior to yours. You have many canadians come to the U.S. to get care, ESPECIALLY OB/GYN and cancer care. That means your system FAILS. 3) Not old news, still current.
@svvmichael1 Are you getting this info right from an Insurance company website or something MORON. Taxes are theft... Wow what pays for your police, fire, ARMED FORCES . MORON. Yes I do have a higher paying job and I don't mind the 39% of my cheque going to health care, police, infrastructure and not some insurance company that may or may not cover my illness. MORON. Maybe research your own end on the 90% and tell me what they have to pay out of pocket.We don't have medical bankruptcies here.
@svvmichael1 Bahahaha, Canada's health care system is ranked 30th, while the US is ranked 37th in the world. Canada even has long ass wait list to get basic care and it is still ranked above the US! You are wrong!
@dovahkiin516 WRONG!!! You only lie. Those rankings are purley qualitative opinion. When you look at quantitative fact, the USA has 37 of the top 50 hospitals in the world. We get more foreigners FROM socialist medicine countries COMING HERE for medical care that will cost them out of pocket than all other countries in the world COMBINED. Our care is the finest, it just costs too much becuase of leftist lawyers who profiteer on patients and doctors. EPIC FAIL.
@svvmichael1 WRONG!!!!!! You only lie. We have more people going to Canada for medical care, on top of which people will go to Asian countries for cheaper surgeries. Your articles are pure lies. Epic FAIL.
@dovahkiin516 WRONG!!!!!! Americans only go to other countries for low-cost elective procedures like ear-bobbing and low-tech cosmetic stuff. YOU LIAR!!! USA has by far the greatest doctors and technology. The reason for the cost is gov't interference and lawyers suing every 7 seconds, and that's a fact fool. I PWN you on every page you try to butt in on. Go back to civics class so you can graduate high school.
HSA's is how it USED to be completely and the insurance companies used to be able to use HSA's to bargain with the FOR PROFIT hospitals. You are not allowed to haggle with the NP Hospitals!
I'm amazed at how easy Americans get brainwashed. I haven't been to the doctor for years but i go to bed happily knowing that if i wake up and something is terribly wrong with me i can go to any doctor i want, get any treatment and go back as often as i want without having to worry about the price tag that comes along with it. I pay 37 euro's a month, the government pays the other 63 euro's and i'm covered. There's no waiting list, i can see my doctor today if i wanted to.
@TheRaevin You pay 37 a month + your taxes. No? You have been healthy for years, glad to hear it. You do not mind paying for someone else's health care then?
I don't because i know that when i get sick, whether it's a simple flue or god forbid i get cancer they'll also be paying for mine. Surgeries are extremely expensive, hearing about somebody in the US losing two fingers and having to make a choice about which one he wants placed back because he can't pay for both is rather sickening. Is 37 euro's a month (or 100 if you make more than 33.000 a year) too much to be covered for everything ? I don't think so.
@TheRaevin Even when some other people do not want to work, so do not contribute? Also. Just out of being curious. How far are you willing to have the government pay for portions of life. Electricity, food, gas, housing, clothes? Who decides how far to go? What I have a hard time understanding, is if the government pays for one thing, why not have them pay for it all?
@nannyberries "The measure of a civilization is how it treats its weakest members." It's hard to determan who is really sick and who is simply to lazy to work. Somebody who is sick and unable to work (and therefor doesn't contribute) shouldn't be left to fend for him/herself. The government is helping me pay because i'm single and make less than 33.000 euro's a year. They do this because the law states that every citizen of The Netherlands MUST have health insurance. The laws do not
@nannyberries ---The laws do not state that you must have electricity, gas, housing or clothes. Medical bills are expensive. I saw a US citizen get a 50.000 dollar bill from ONE chemo! So why not let citizens put money in the bowl for those that need it ? Many hands make light work. Beats paying 500 (or so) dollars a month just so when you happen to get sick some donkey can tell you you're not covered because of some crazy loophole they found, that's madness.
@TheRaevin My mother in law died of cancer, so I know how the price goes on that. I just feel that if there was more competition with the insurance staying out of the small stuff and consumers had more to do with their own health care that it would bring down the price structure. Just like any other business.
But then you have the problem of salaries. Doctors in the US pay a lot more for their schooling than here in Europe. Not because they get taught better but because the salaries they end up getting will allow them to pay for it. Doctors still earn a lot of money in Europe but less than in the United States and that to think most things are more expensive over here, just check out the average house price in the UK or The Netherlands. Surgeries end up costing more money.
@TheRaevin Your system seems to be what this program is saying. Looks like your government only helps pay for the sicker patience. You definitely do not have a socialized medicine thing like they are proposing here.
If you earn more than 33.000 a year you really don't worry about 65 euro's more or less a month, trust me. The only thing that people hate in this country are our gas prices. We pay 0.60 euro cents a liter (0.2 gallons) tax money which can make traveling expensive. But we are more than happy with our healthcare. Cultural difference perhaps.
@TheRaevin The health care, if people are happy with it and it doesn't cost the taxes to get out of control, then more power to you. Doesn't sound like to bad of a system. We call what our government tries to do a nanny state. It seem our government wants to hold our hand from cradle to grave. All at the cost of tax payers.
Solidarity is necessary, no dispute here. However to stop prices, corruption and bribes spiraling up, you need some serious checks-huge bureaucracy. Have not prices of HC in Holland went up over years? Don't you have lack of doctors? What about immigrants receiving UHC, doesn't it make some friction?
How is the quality compared to private care?
btw gov pays nothing...you and your employer does or others. The price can be stifling the prosperity in NL(?).
You people are all bizarre. I cannot tell you of anyone I know who has been dissatisfied with Canada's health care system. I have waited only once - to see a dermetologist. What is your problem in the US???? You are one crazy country!
@robertrutherford1959 Gee, we are just incredibly impressed with your anecdotal evidence. It is truly amazing that we should have the audacitu to accept Health Canada's official statisticas bout wait times and the numerous people suffereing for years on waiting list in canada or who come to the US for care they don;t believe they can afford to wait for. Clearly we should rely on the experience of the handful of people you know instead of data collected about the whole country.
@robertrutherford1959 Gee, we are just incredibly impressed with your anecdotal evidence. It is truly amazing that we should have the audacitu to accept Health Canada's official statisticas bout wait times and the numerous people suffereing for years on waiting list in canada or who come to the US for care they don;t believe they can afford to wait for. Clearly we should rely on the experience of the handful of people you know instead of data collected about the whole country.
The sad part is that, this was in 2007 and NOW we're still having socialized medicine. All the problems that he showed WILL be us, if it doesn't get reversed. It's sad :/
Forget those poor souls unlucky enough to get cancer, and what about the fat uneducated chain smokers who doesn't even regard how much his/her procedures will cost? These are PREVENTABLE disorders that people regularly ignore because SOMEONE ELSE is footing the bill.This is the system you get. Its like, if insurance paid for gas, everyone would be driving gas guzzling suvs and just leaving their cars running even at night. This isn't rocket science, its economics.
@H1TMANactual New Mexico has a Governor Gary Johnson. So New Mexico is getting close, still far from it, but its a step.. The key is to flood New Mexico with tons of libertarian politicians and turn it into a libertarian state. New Mexico could legalize drugs, cut taxes, cut spending etc...
I wonder if you could open up a like... in and out doctor office for simple treatments. No health insurance taken, but a physical would cost like 30 bucks. You walk in, 10 minutes later you are done, and just be like... quick medical care, and to advertise it. I think some people would be willing to not use insurance if it was cheap enough.
If other companies where like the one in this segment then that would be fine. Only most Companies do not want to cover there employees this way. They want to keep the profit for themselves and not share it with the employee. McDonald's those company's. You can get heath insurance, but it so costly for the employee they can't afford and don't participate.
This is a real dumb post. What matters to the employer is YOUR TOTAL COST. If your employer had to pay you less in benefits, you'd see wages go way up.
@TheShaniqua1992 Really, prove it. I think you would keep your same wage and the company would pocket that savings. Your being quite naive about Corporations. You just need to look no further than GE with a World wide profit of $14B in 2010. They cut the wages and benefits of their non-union employees and want 15,000 US union employees to take a wage and benefits cut, while at the same time raising the CEO's salary 100%. So quit being so naive. Corporations do not have your best interest in mind
Not all Health savings accounts work like this. If they did it would be great. Most work like this. You put money in the account each month and it is tax deferred. But you must use that money by the end of the year or you loose it to the insurance company. I wish I could do what this company is doing, because that makes a lot more since. Most HSA only allow you a max of $5000 and you must use it or loose it.
I got TB in America... denying healthcare to people means they won't go to doctor and you all catch the disease. To catch TB someone had an active form of it, which would put him/her in great deal of discomfort. I say if someone don't go to doctor because of the cost he is spreading an infectious disease on all of you's. There you go it. I would rather pay for them to go to docs then get disease of someone!!
i have a 250 dollar deductible. Every year if i surpass the 250... therefore all else should be covered, when i go to a doctors appointment i pay the 20 dollar co pay, and a few weeks later i get a HUGE bill and the doctors office says the insurance wont cover it. I have to get on the phone for at least an hour to clear it up and get them to cover what they already should have. THE PROFIT MOTIVE
But that's not how a HSA works. If you don't use the money by a certain date, you lose the money. You get until the end of the calender year, and then typically another 3 months to submit charges
I actually used this plan for myself at my previous place of employment. Instead of opting for the companies insurance plan, I took the money I wouldve been spending on health insurance and placed it in a savings account w/ a high savings yield. It totaled to almost $2500 a year into that account. Since me and my wife rarely go to see a doctor, that money stacked right up. When we did see a doctor, we made sure we only got treatments or medicines that were needed.
I have free health care and I also try very hard to keep good care of myself but I have had to go the Doctor a few times. It happens and sometimes theres nothing you can do to prevent it. BUT everytime I have gone I have always been well looked after. Why not interview people who have been treated well and have no problems with the system? That would be unbiased I guess and the media isn't unbiased. The Canadian system is not flawless but its pretty good and getting better.
I think the way 20/20 is portraying public health care systems is biased. I'm no expert on the Australian health care system, but I don't think we have all the problems 20/20 says we have.
The gov. fully subsidises hospital treatment and partly subs. GP visits (this means it costs Aus. ~$30-50). So there's still an incentive to be efficient with the health care system but it's there if you really need it.
If you don't want queues (e.g. dentists), the gov. subs. (30%) private health care.
This is dumb as hell! When you are sick, you shouldn't have to shop around. Yeah, if i have a stroke i'm going to go through the yellow pages to see who will treat me for a better price. Ridiculous! Not to mention, the whole grocery analogy was fallacious and stupid. People don't go into a doctors office telling the doctor what kind of treatment they want. The doctor decides what treatment you need. I have no respect for John Stossel.
Most of the stuff people get sick with... they shouldn't even go to the doctor. Often people with insurance choose the most expensive option for something minor, as in the example, an ER for a hangnail. Since insurance spreads the costs this choice ends up driving up costs for everyone.
He was not talking about a stroke, your going to an extreme example to prove your inaccurate point.
Please don't misuse words like fallacious. Big words sound impressive, true but they should fit the meaning.
"Often people with insurance choose the most expensive option for something minor, as in the example, an ER for a hangnail." This is a very common argument for people who have no clear knowledge of health-care. This is obviously an exaggeration and holds no real legitimacy.
"Please don't misuse words like fallacious. Big words sound impressive..." Fallacious is not a big word. Maybe you should expand your vocabulary. Pneumonoultramicroscopicsilico is a big word.
Really? Most everyone I know who has insurance go to the doctor way more often than they need to. Minor injuries and discomforts lead to a medical visit. Maybe the people I know are exceptions to the general rule though, just going off of what I observe.
My point was more about the misuse of a word. Big may have been the wrong choice, words not commonly used in everyday language. And yes that is a very big word.
However if you can show me the fallacy I'll retract my statement.
You're praying I get cancer? Why? Because I disagree with Universal Healthcare? That's a pretty messed up thing to say. I wish you good health my friend.
No it's not. This is an illogical argument, and do you know anything about HSA? HSA has it's flaws and that's why there is a big issue in health reform.
You know in France when you get cancer, you don't pay anything (in fact you pay not much). But if you actually had to pay for it, 95% of the population won't be able to pay without getting deeply into debts (at the least).
And by the way, in France healtcare is NOT free for people. Each working man pays a part of his wage for healthcare. The only difference between an HMO and french social security is that paying that part is mandatory.
Uhm....if Whole Foods market costs for their employees health care went "way down" as the ceo says, then..why the heck have prices RAISED A LOT when I shop at Whole Foods?? Prices should have gone down. that means that the ceo guy is taking additional millions for himself which I would have preferred to stay in the health care for workers. that's why WHole Foods markets are popping out everywhere these days.
Food Costs accross the board have raised (not just at whole foods) due to a number of factors outside of health costs. To put it simply food prices are higher due to high oil costs (which have since dropped but have not made their way through the food prices) Higher demand for corn products (ethanol) and the Iowa Flood that destroyed a lot of product.
WOW! American's are being taken advantage of. John Stossel actually sounds like he thinks Whole Foods has a good idea.....If you're lucky you can save up enough to have a baby??? LOL wow. That $8,000 won't mean crap if you need a heart by-pass surgery that's $100,000 that your insurance company won't pay for. Do yourselves a favor randomly call a Canadian and ask them if they like free health care. They will say it's great compared to the US.
in that case i wud go to the states and pay for it but the majprity of times canadians go to the doctor is for stuff that can be waited on without a problem...and those who live unhealthy lifestyles pay for it themselves and waiting/going to the states is something they have to take as a consequence
wow your a idiot. Do you even have a health plan? You still have a deductible on indv. health insurance and you still have a max out of pocket expense.
HSA plans are what insurance is supposed to be. It is to cover for catastrophic events not your damn sniffles. your paying insurance for when you have a heart attack and your bill is 30 -40g that 5k deductible will look very good. go to canada we need to get rid of the stupid people in america.
If everyone took 1 year to study and understand the basics of economics, there would be fewer poor people, fewer sick people, there would be more innovation, and production would be higher and more balanced. But we are the Staples generation. We just want an "easy button" for everything.
This is absolutely true! I remember taking a mandatory one semester economics course in 10th grade. Many of the economic subjects were taught in a superficial and blasé manner. I eventually forgot a few things and didn't care about some.
I started to read some college level micro and macro economics textbooks in the past year and am surprised at how little I knew about how the economy and capitalism works. My "economic life" has been better ever since.
I also think that personal finance should be a mandatory subject in school. So many people have no idea how to manage their money, have no idea what insurance should be used for, and have no idea how to invest.
And don't say that preventative maintenance can only be afforded by the rich. Stop your cable bill and be economic in your spending and you can afford it. Unhealthy foods can cost just as much as a healthy diet.
I saw a pie chart a few months ago that showed how the average American spent their income. Health care was the smallest piece of the pie. I wish I could find the study again. :(
Not only that, when you point out to them these facts they still go on eating Cheatoos (and then want me to pay if they get sick). If someone wants to spend the same amount of money on healthy foods and a few supplements that have been proven to work (fish oil, for example) and get enough vitamin d and other healthy things, they would eliminate about 90% of all diseases and sicknesses. Healthy people don't get sick.
Im 23 years old and have no health insurance and I have a bad gallbladder that I need removed. When I went to the doctor he told me it was acid reflux and would need to do tests before he was willing to take it out. 3 seperate tests all amounting to over 50,000 dollars in order to get my 10,000 surgery. I still have my bad gallbladder and everytime im shaking from the pain hoping to pass out so i dont have to feel it I think if only I didnt eat those cheetos, your an idiot.
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People who pay high deductibles take better care of themselves BECAUSE THEY HAVE MONEY!! John Stossel has always been a little over the top in trying to play devil's advocate but he's just plain dumb on this one!
In Germany, we have to pay an regular 10 Euro every three months if we want to see a doctor, and, although it´s declining, the health-care system covers most procedures and medications that are resonable (sadly, no alternative medicine, well, they got in accupuncture by now). But because in Germany everyone is automatically insured wether they are in a job or not, and also everybody under 25 whatever they do, noone will ever deny you a treatment because of a "previous condition".
If you watch this entire show & believe in the free market solutions that John Stossel discusses in the latter part, check out RON PAUL FOR PRESIDENT 2008! He's the only candidate whose ideas would get healthcare back to the free market where prices GO DOWN SIGNIFICANTLY!
John Stossel is right on. Competition does make things better and personal responsibility is the only way to go. There is place for Government to be involved and that is ONLY in deregulating monopolies. Government controlling anything only makes a mess. Name one good thing that the Government has done when they have had control over something... School System? wrong!!!
jema you are on the right track but you need to take your free market thinking a little further. think about what lordmetroid says, when there is total freedom, how can there be any monopoly in the private sector? somebody can always come in and try to offer it better or cheaper. if one co. continues to dominate the market in a particular industry, it prob. is b/c they do it better, cheaper, than anybody else can and that is a good thing
'every other nation' as you say does not have a problem with that. they love it, in fact. where are the americans risking life and limb trying to get into other countries? I think it's the other way around. so why should we do what all those countries are doing when their citizens are dying to get in to OUR country? maybe all the things they are doing don't make them so great after all.
The people who are dying to get into the US are not from other Western Industrialised countries. And if other countries love Americans taking military actions in other countries, why do their citizens protest in the streets against it? You obviously have no knowledge of other countries.
i know chinese crowd themselves into small compartments in the hull of ships in hopes of arriving on our shores in shipping containers.
i know mexicans run towards people pointing guns at them in order to get into this country
I know canadians flock to this country for medical procedures that they can't get in their own country as do heads of state for many other countries. do you deny these facts?
I do not deny anything about the Chinese; I didn't even address them in the first place. Mexico doesn't have a universal healthcare system, so again, I didn't address them in my previous comments. Canadians do not flock to the US for treatment; that's a rare occurance. I wish that someone on YouTube could have a serious discussion about this issue, but it seems that everyone on your side of the debate only has soundbites and strawmen to throw at me.
alright mw...you want a seious discussion of the issues? tell me how things would be better under UHC and i'll respond. or see my channel and watch my vids 'benefits of capitalism- healthcare. you won't find anybody on youtube more prepared for a serious debate than me.
That would be great. What do you say...you raise two points and I will raise two? Or we could do a point/counterpoint type of thing, whatever you think.
the only time there can be a true monopoly is when the gov't makes laws that make it illegal to go elsewhere for services or when they force you to spend your money with one provider (water dept's, schools, etc.) then as you know you get bad service from the providers b/c of no incentive to please customers.
Since every other Western industrialised nation thinks it is, maybe you should get off your high horse and seriously look at the majority view. The fact that you can only talk about this issue with soundbites proves you know nothing about it.
'every other nation thinks it is...' yes and every other nation still looks to america as the shining beacon of success and freedom. we stand out to the world not b/c we are the same as the rest of the world but b/c we are different.
That is bullshit. As someone who's been to other countries, the ones with universal healthcare do not look to us as a 'beacon of success and freedom.' Seriously, are you only watching Fox News?
A majority does not constitute the right choice or the moral choice, it simply constitutes that which it is- a majority choice.
Healthcare is one of the few areas where advances in technology have not corresponded in a decline in cost and availability. If we are observing increased cost with increased government regulation and subsidies, we should start thinking about reversing government regulation and subsidies and giving it a try.
You may just be joking but what is it with Americans and socialism? The Cold War is OVER. Some government control is usually a good thing in my opinion.
I wouldn't want a system where there is no regulation and that is totally market driven. The market inherently doesn't care about people - only money. I would be scared of the injustices that could occur; I think you can already see quite a few in the US health care system.
there should be regulation. however, democrats want government CONTROL, where they tell what the companies have to do. sure, we should regulate companies to keep them from killing each other and stuff like that, but typically, less regulation allows for more companies to innovate better. sure, they only want money. where the hell do they get the money? from the people. if the people feel that another company's better (lower prices or higher quality), then that company will have to follow.
And what do the Republicans want? Total capitalism? Did Bush do anything to improve the system? As far as I know, Obama wants a system like France's where there is government regulation but with a mostly capitalist system.
The French system is poorly managed and is nearly going bankrupt (like our social security). Only capitalism and the free market can save us. The free market has gotten us out of every recession/depression so far (yes, even the great depression. it was not the new deal that got us out), and has been the reason why we are the richest and most powerful country in the world. once we get people to care about how much healthcare costs, i guarentee ya, prices will go down.
What caused the Great Depression? The failure of the capitalist system (i.e. the markets). Healthcare may be cheaper, but who will have access to everything they need? The poor? I don't think so. Even if the French system is going bankrupt, ours isn't (Australia) and I'd much rather have ours than yours or your suggested new system.
and becoming socialist (FDR) did not get us out. in fact it was capitalism that got us out as well. when we entered ww2, demand rose up considerably, and the economy got back on track. thing is, you guys don't have that many people. in the U.S, social security is going bankrupt (and that just pays for people 65 and above). and if you guys are pretty much the only people not dealing with near bankrupt healthcare, then universal healthcare is not going to be good.
That's a moot point - capitalism got you out but you had capitalism when you went into it! Are you an idiot?
No, the 'thing is', we spend less than half what the US does per person on healthcare - that's why we're not bankrupt. See 'Health care in Australia Vs US 08-15-09', on YouTube.
I'm not suggesting you become socialists. I am suggesting pure capitalism is a stupid idea - you can have your markets but you need SOME regulation. And SOME regulation does not mean socialism!
yeah, and and my proposition would LOWER costs, by increasing competition.
I know we need SOME regulation. what you are proposing is not regulation. it is control. that's what all liberals seem to confuse. regulation is a watchful eye. control is when the government takes over. i don't want the government to take over, because government control is always less efficient than the private sector.
HSA's need government money, im just saying that people should decide what they get.
Okay, for the sake of argument lets say that the free market is a greed-filled and somehow thus "evil", inefficient system that screws anyone who voluntarily works within said system and despite this and all of your attempts to convince me that your system was better, I still wish to participate in the system. What do you think should happen to me?
Capitalism isn't inefficient it's exactly the opposite (no waste). There are many advantages of it and I'm not suggesting we should be socialists.
But, for example if we had total capitalism, there would be no social security. Anyone who couldn't work and didn't have money saved up (say a fired cleaner - or low paid worker - who could only just afford to live on their earnings, or a disabled person) would have no income and wouldn't be able to afford food etc.
At the same time since they are not paying more in those taxes they can save more. Then it becomes who is responsible for their own retirement plan and should we feel sorry for the ones who don't save at all.
I'm not sure exactly what taxes you're referring to or whether you mean healthcare when you say 'retirement plan', but anyway:
Poor people pay little or no tax and would therefore never be able to support themselves with it - the middle class and rich pay much more tax to support them. Besides, I think it is unrealistic to think they will save the money. Not everyone is perfectly responsible. What then? We let them suffer in the great American capitalist tradition?
@teutonicpenguin I know this is 7 months late, but I gotta respond. You say: "We let them suffer in the great American capitalist tradition?"
The answer is: yes. If you make stupid decisions, you have to deal with the consequences. Are you saying that if someone wastes their money on alcohol and don't have enough to put gas in the car I should have to pay for that? HOW WILL THEY LEARN?
@LaughingMage Sometimes shit just happens, no? When someone's bankrupt because their existence is only a privilege, they probably won't have time to learn much of anything. So I guess you'll be surrounded by subclass retards all the time anyway.
@LaughingMage how about someone is born with a genetic condition and needs to take tablets and needs regular check ups for the rest of their lives? How fair is that. We are not all born perfectly healthy!!
@Shezmu You speak for all the retarded conservatives who have no grounds for argument once you find that rationing is a tool of the system regardless of single payer, public option, etc., care is cheaper and better when done with government insurance options, the most respected scholar on the subject is for a mix system with a strong public option (he also happens to feel that the government is so inadequate that it couldn't handle a single payer system) - which is ideal.
And lastly, you can't over come the reality that people should care about the health of others and spreading risk across the community is preferable to spreading risk across smaller selfish insurance companies. This is class war at it's most obvious. Healthcare for all, just sounds right.
As a future version of the person you're responding to, you are aware that pretty much all governments are about to get nuked economically speaking, right? Assuming you agree with the previous statement, what's going to happen to the people depended on Nationalized healthcare when the government runs out of money?
Before you respond, I'm not in support of the wave of medical fascism that plaques the US currently.
@teutonicpenguin : I think you missed my point. I was not asking if the market is efficient/inefficient, I was asking what do you believe should happen to those who want to participate in what you believe to be a peaceful but flawed method of organization.
@jgrdonquixote You know why costs haven't reduced?! It is because of government intervention in the free market. America never had free market healthcare. Look at all the regulations etc
@jgrdonquixote What, everyone getting shitty care regardless whether or not they work, whether or not they need it, whether or not it's life threatening, as many doctor visits as they want? I agree for socialized medicine for a degree, but not everything free for everyone.
Wealth...health care is not free. You're going to pay for it one way or another. Taxes every year or out of your pocket as you get care. Either way, you pay for it.
What´s wrong with purchasing non-deducible health insurance (which covers even minor illness) by oneself and still company would pay the workers same amount which they are paying in high-deducible?
How much extra money should you pay for non-deducible compared to high-deducible?
jamk916 11 hours ago in playlist John Stossel 20/20
Canada vs USA flame war.... I really didn't think I'd find that in the comment section.... Honestly people....
Vekoma1261 5 days ago
Like I said at least we'd get the care in Canada and wouldn't have to take out a large loan to get it. Also if it's serious a person wouldn't have to wait too long
MaddDogg81 1 month ago
Well in Canada I'd rather wait a bit for any kind of healthcare then not be able to afford any care at all
MaddDogg81 1 month ago
if u want save money on healthcare just don't go and die.
Toadphillips 1 month ago
If I am having a medical emergency, should I have to worry about if I am going to lose my apartment to pay for this? Or maybe if I shop around I might just lose the car.
I guess that is where my choice as an individual comes in. I have the CHOICE to either lose the apartment or lose the car.
IMaximusDMI 1 month ago
I still stand by my countries health care system
MaddDogg81 1 month ago
So your argument is that it's better to be dependent on a government-run health care system? Shit, did you watch the other parts of the news piece? I like how people seem to think socialized medicine is cost-effective, efficient, consistently high quality and will last forever. Both private and public health care systems have horror stories on both sides, but one is fixable while the other isn't.
kommisar 1 month ago
I still think our health care system is better than the US if you aren't rich or don't have health insurance
MaddDogg81 1 month ago
@MaddDogg81 it IS better if you are lazy, irresponsible, uneducated, and completely useless. BUT you make the hard-working, educated, responsible people pay double so you can be an idiot. Is that fair?
svvmichael1 1 month ago
everyone pays taxes idiot. We in Canada might pay a slightly higer tax rate I'm not sure but would you rather pay a but lower tax and have $10,000-100,000+ in personal debt. Also we don't get denied care because of a previous condition for important care. In some provinces we pay a Medical Services Plan fee per month but only higher income people pay it and it's only like $10a month for a person making like $21,000 a year and maybe $40 for a family with an income of about 50,000+ a year
MaddDogg81 1 month ago
@MaddDogg81 SOOOOOO, you pay more intaxes, and get worse care. How is that good. If I need an MRI or a CTscan I don't want to have to wait 2 months like Canada. In 2 months you may be dead already.
svvmichael1 1 month ago
@svvmichael1 Not getting the point. What about those people who CAN't AFFORD to get an MRI or CT Scan. An with your lovely economy down there, there is a whole lot more people that can't afford it. But I guess with your thinking they deserve to die. Stupid family got layed off because company went bankrupt. Deserves to die. Wow, apparently there is no one more important than you. Typical US attitude. ME ME ME and screw the rest I sure hope you never loose your job moron
MrJimdandy63 2 weeks ago
@MrJimdandy63 1) Canadians pay more taxes and get much WORSE care. You have gov't officials that come here to get care because they know your system can barely handle basic care. 2) Nearly everyone can get insurance in the U.S. fool, stop lying. 3) The ME,ME,ME USA? Do you think Canada would be free-ish without us? How about the UK, France, Poland, Belgium, Taiwan,etc,etc,etc. EPIC FAIL.
svvmichael1 2 weeks ago
@svvmichael1 Wow, you really beleive you have a better system of health care. 1) Yes we pay a higher median tax and WE DO NOT HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THAT. 2) In Canada EVERYONE IS COVERED, not just the fortunate that can afford insurance. And the words PRE EXISTING CONDITION does not apply in Canada. You have 30,000,000 that aren't covered WHY 3) Thats like saying where would America if Flemming didn't invent penicillin. Old news buddy, its called the new millenium.
MrJimdandy63 2 weeks ago
@MrJimdandy63 You are wrong on everything. You need to get an education 1)You should, taxes are theft. BTW, you must be a low-income person, because I know many middle and upper-income canadians who DO have a problem with it. 2) In the USA 90% of everyone is covered on their own. 90%. And our care is FAR FAR FAR superior to yours. You have many canadians come to the U.S. to get care, ESPECIALLY OB/GYN and cancer care. That means your system FAILS. 3) Not old news, still current.
svvmichael1 2 weeks ago
@svvmichael1 Are you getting this info right from an Insurance company website or something MORON. Taxes are theft... Wow what pays for your police, fire, ARMED FORCES . MORON. Yes I do have a higher paying job and I don't mind the 39% of my cheque going to health care, police, infrastructure and not some insurance company that may or may not cover my illness. MORON. Maybe research your own end on the 90% and tell me what they have to pay out of pocket.We don't have medical bankruptcies here.
MrJimdandy63 2 weeks ago
@svvmichael1 Bahahaha, Canada's health care system is ranked 30th, while the US is ranked 37th in the world. Canada even has long ass wait list to get basic care and it is still ranked above the US! You are wrong!
dovahkiin516 2 weeks ago
@dovahkiin516 WRONG!!! You only lie. Those rankings are purley qualitative opinion. When you look at quantitative fact, the USA has 37 of the top 50 hospitals in the world. We get more foreigners FROM socialist medicine countries COMING HERE for medical care that will cost them out of pocket than all other countries in the world COMBINED. Our care is the finest, it just costs too much becuase of leftist lawyers who profiteer on patients and doctors. EPIC FAIL.
svvmichael1 2 weeks ago
@svvmichael1 WRONG!!!!!! You only lie. We have more people going to Canada for medical care, on top of which people will go to Asian countries for cheaper surgeries. Your articles are pure lies. Epic FAIL.
dovahkiin516 2 weeks ago
@dovahkiin516 WRONG!!!!!! Americans only go to other countries for low-cost elective procedures like ear-bobbing and low-tech cosmetic stuff. YOU LIAR!!! USA has by far the greatest doctors and technology. The reason for the cost is gov't interference and lawyers suing every 7 seconds, and that's a fact fool. I PWN you on every page you try to butt in on. Go back to civics class so you can graduate high school.
svvmichael1 2 weeks ago
I'm still glad I live in Canada with free health care
MaddDogg81 3 months ago
@MaddDogg81 Your crappy healthcare system isn't free, fool. Look at all the taxes they take out of your paycheck to fund it, if you have a job.
BRYAN351 1 month ago
HSA's is how it USED to be completely and the insurance companies used to be able to use HSA's to bargain with the FOR PROFIT hospitals. You are not allowed to haggle with the NP Hospitals!
Prinnycakes 4 months ago
I'm amazed at how easy Americans get brainwashed. I haven't been to the doctor for years but i go to bed happily knowing that if i wake up and something is terribly wrong with me i can go to any doctor i want, get any treatment and go back as often as i want without having to worry about the price tag that comes along with it. I pay 37 euro's a month, the government pays the other 63 euro's and i'm covered. There's no waiting list, i can see my doctor today if i wanted to.
TheRaevin 5 months ago
@TheRaevin You pay 37 a month + your taxes. No? You have been healthy for years, glad to hear it. You do not mind paying for someone else's health care then?
nannyberries 4 months ago
@nannyberries
I don't because i know that when i get sick, whether it's a simple flue or god forbid i get cancer they'll also be paying for mine. Surgeries are extremely expensive, hearing about somebody in the US losing two fingers and having to make a choice about which one he wants placed back because he can't pay for both is rather sickening. Is 37 euro's a month (or 100 if you make more than 33.000 a year) too much to be covered for everything ? I don't think so.
TheRaevin 4 months ago
@TheRaevin Even when some other people do not want to work, so do not contribute? Also. Just out of being curious. How far are you willing to have the government pay for portions of life. Electricity, food, gas, housing, clothes? Who decides how far to go? What I have a hard time understanding, is if the government pays for one thing, why not have them pay for it all?
nannyberries 4 months ago
@nannyberries "The measure of a civilization is how it treats its weakest members." It's hard to determan who is really sick and who is simply to lazy to work. Somebody who is sick and unable to work (and therefor doesn't contribute) shouldn't be left to fend for him/herself. The government is helping me pay because i'm single and make less than 33.000 euro's a year. They do this because the law states that every citizen of The Netherlands MUST have health insurance. The laws do not
TheRaevin 4 months ago
@nannyberries ---The laws do not state that you must have electricity, gas, housing or clothes. Medical bills are expensive. I saw a US citizen get a 50.000 dollar bill from ONE chemo! So why not let citizens put money in the bowl for those that need it ? Many hands make light work. Beats paying 500 (or so) dollars a month just so when you happen to get sick some donkey can tell you you're not covered because of some crazy loophole they found, that's madness.
TheRaevin 4 months ago
@TheRaevin My mother in law died of cancer, so I know how the price goes on that. I just feel that if there was more competition with the insurance staying out of the small stuff and consumers had more to do with their own health care that it would bring down the price structure. Just like any other business.
nannyberries 4 months ago
@nannyberries
But then you have the problem of salaries. Doctors in the US pay a lot more for their schooling than here in Europe. Not because they get taught better but because the salaries they end up getting will allow them to pay for it. Doctors still earn a lot of money in Europe but less than in the United States and that to think most things are more expensive over here, just check out the average house price in the UK or The Netherlands. Surgeries end up costing more money.
TheRaevin 4 months ago
@TheRaevin Your system seems to be what this program is saying. Looks like your government only helps pay for the sicker patience. You definitely do not have a socialized medicine thing like they are proposing here.
nannyberries 4 months ago
@nannyberries
If you earn more than 33.000 a year you really don't worry about 65 euro's more or less a month, trust me. The only thing that people hate in this country are our gas prices. We pay 0.60 euro cents a liter (0.2 gallons) tax money which can make traveling expensive. But we are more than happy with our healthcare. Cultural difference perhaps.
TheRaevin 4 months ago
@TheRaevin The health care, if people are happy with it and it doesn't cost the taxes to get out of control, then more power to you. Doesn't sound like to bad of a system. We call what our government tries to do a nanny state. It seem our government wants to hold our hand from cradle to grave. All at the cost of tax payers.
nannyberries 4 months ago
@TheRaevin
Solidarity is necessary, no dispute here. However to stop prices, corruption and bribes spiraling up, you need some serious checks-huge bureaucracy. Have not prices of HC in Holland went up over years? Don't you have lack of doctors? What about immigrants receiving UHC, doesn't it make some friction?
How is the quality compared to private care?
btw gov pays nothing...you and your employer does or others. The price can be stifling the prosperity in NL(?).
MrDanielBowman74 3 months ago
You people are all bizarre. I cannot tell you of anyone I know who has been dissatisfied with Canada's health care system. I have waited only once - to see a dermetologist. What is your problem in the US???? You are one crazy country!
robertrutherford1959 7 months ago
@robertrutherford1959 i know dot damn government is preventing us from learning!!!
chicanokid101 7 months ago
@robertrutherford1959 Gee, we are just incredibly impressed with your anecdotal evidence. It is truly amazing that we should have the audacitu to accept Health Canada's official statisticas bout wait times and the numerous people suffereing for years on waiting list in canada or who come to the US for care they don;t believe they can afford to wait for. Clearly we should rely on the experience of the handful of people you know instead of data collected about the whole country.
Please.
FletchforFreedom 5 months ago in playlist John Stossel
@robertrutherford1959 Gee, we are just incredibly impressed with your anecdotal evidence. It is truly amazing that we should have the audacitu to accept Health Canada's official statisticas bout wait times and the numerous people suffereing for years on waiting list in canada or who come to the US for care they don;t believe they can afford to wait for. Clearly we should rely on the experience of the handful of people you know instead of data collected about the whole country.
Please.
FletchforFreedom 5 months ago in playlist John Stossel
The sad part is that, this was in 2007 and NOW we're still having socialized medicine. All the problems that he showed WILL be us, if it doesn't get reversed. It's sad :/
PivotB3stZ 8 months ago
People ARE stupid though
hunkgod 10 months ago
"the individual is the best judge as to what's right for the individual". oh ok guess we don't need medical schools anymore. tard.
zachromero 11 months ago
@zachromero you're such a fucking idiot
shroomingnewman 10 months ago
Forget those poor souls unlucky enough to get cancer, and what about the fat uneducated chain smokers who doesn't even regard how much his/her procedures will cost? These are PREVENTABLE disorders that people regularly ignore because SOMEONE ELSE is footing the bill.This is the system you get. Its like, if insurance paid for gas, everyone would be driving gas guzzling suvs and just leaving their cars running even at night. This isn't rocket science, its economics.
TheSlothook 11 months ago
Any libertarians want to join me in starting a new country?
H1TMANactual 11 months ago 60
@H1TMANactual You can move to New Hampshire or to that island they're building.
ca1cifer 3 months ago
@H1TMANactual Move to Mogadishu, I'm sure a bootstrappy up and comer like you will be a huge success there, everyone there is a libertarian
SammyClammy 2 months ago
@SammyClammy Hong Kong is Libertarian, Somalia is anarchy. Try again.
H1TMANactual 2 months ago
@H1TMANactual lets just keep our country, let the liberals move to russia or something,
flcl64 2 months ago
@H1TMANactual
Free State Project FTW!
IxenBlaze 1 month ago in playlist More videos from Jimmypop97 3
Comment removed
TheBabyraper666 3 weeks ago
@H1TMANactual That's an oxymoron. Skrew countries!
htiberian 2 weeks ago
@H1TMANactual Let's take over some island somewhere.
kratanuva725 1 week ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@H1TMANactual New Mexico has a Governor Gary Johnson. So New Mexico is getting close, still far from it, but its a step.. The key is to flood New Mexico with tons of libertarian politicians and turn it into a libertarian state. New Mexico could legalize drugs, cut taxes, cut spending etc...
shootduckrun 2 days ago
I wonder if you could open up a like... in and out doctor office for simple treatments. No health insurance taken, but a physical would cost like 30 bucks. You walk in, 10 minutes later you are done, and just be like... quick medical care, and to advertise it. I think some people would be willing to not use insurance if it was cheap enough.
bluefootedpig 1 year ago
If other companies where like the one in this segment then that would be fine. Only most Companies do not want to cover there employees this way. They want to keep the profit for themselves and not share it with the employee. McDonald's those company's. You can get heath insurance, but it so costly for the employee they can't afford and don't participate.
jrwilson98 1 year ago
@jrwilson98
This is a real dumb post. What matters to the employer is YOUR TOTAL COST. If your employer had to pay you less in benefits, you'd see wages go way up.
TheShaniqua1992 9 months ago
@TheShaniqua1992 Really, prove it. I think you would keep your same wage and the company would pocket that savings. Your being quite naive about Corporations. You just need to look no further than GE with a World wide profit of $14B in 2010. They cut the wages and benefits of their non-union employees and want 15,000 US union employees to take a wage and benefits cut, while at the same time raising the CEO's salary 100%. So quit being so naive. Corporations do not have your best interest in mind
jrwilson98 9 months ago
Not all Health savings accounts work like this. If they did it would be great. Most work like this. You put money in the account each month and it is tax deferred. But you must use that money by the end of the year or you loose it to the insurance company. I wish I could do what this company is doing, because that makes a lot more since. Most HSA only allow you a max of $5000 and you must use it or loose it.
jrwilson98 1 year ago
I got TB in America... denying healthcare to people means they won't go to doctor and you all catch the disease. To catch TB someone had an active form of it, which would put him/her in great deal of discomfort. I say if someone don't go to doctor because of the cost he is spreading an infectious disease on all of you's. There you go it. I would rather pay for them to go to docs then get disease of someone!!
tinarett 1 year ago
i have a 250 dollar deductible. Every year if i surpass the 250... therefore all else should be covered, when i go to a doctors appointment i pay the 20 dollar co pay, and a few weeks later i get a HUGE bill and the doctors office says the insurance wont cover it. I have to get on the phone for at least an hour to clear it up and get them to cover what they already should have. THE PROFIT MOTIVE
doonymacc 1 year ago
But that's not how a HSA works. If you don't use the money by a certain date, you lose the money. You get until the end of the calender year, and then typically another 3 months to submit charges
TheTripleB 2 years ago
I actually used this plan for myself at my previous place of employment. Instead of opting for the companies insurance plan, I took the money I wouldve been spending on health insurance and placed it in a savings account w/ a high savings yield. It totaled to almost $2500 a year into that account. Since me and my wife rarely go to see a doctor, that money stacked right up. When we did see a doctor, we made sure we only got treatments or medicines that were needed.
Be responsible for yourself.
northernpatriot54 2 years ago 7
That's why earlier they covered how poorly you are treated in the American Health Care system when you do not have health insurance.
marissa32 2 years ago
@marissa32, But if you lay a stack of cash in front of the doctor I'm sure he/she will take you seriously.
Backmanmatt 2 years ago
@northernpatriot54 I would still look into some of those catastrophe care programs in case one of you get really sick or injured.
hokieneer17 1 month ago
was there a boycott for whole foods
realhxq 2 years ago
no health care is perfect
twisted45 2 years ago
so far that is the smartest thing i heard!
realhxq 2 years ago
I have free health care and I also try very hard to keep good care of myself but I have had to go the Doctor a few times. It happens and sometimes theres nothing you can do to prevent it. BUT everytime I have gone I have always been well looked after. Why not interview people who have been treated well and have no problems with the system? That would be unbiased I guess and the media isn't unbiased. The Canadian system is not flawless but its pretty good and getting better.
stiltzca33 2 years ago
I think the way 20/20 is portraying public health care systems is biased. I'm no expert on the Australian health care system, but I don't think we have all the problems 20/20 says we have.
The gov. fully subsidises hospital treatment and partly subs. GP visits (this means it costs Aus. ~$30-50). So there's still an incentive to be efficient with the health care system but it's there if you really need it.
If you don't want queues (e.g. dentists), the gov. subs. (30%) private health care.
teutonicpenguin 2 years ago
I agree, what does that say about America who is 37 on the list of Countries in Healthcare! Austrailia is 9th! He should have brought that up!
jeangrey65 2 years ago
This is dumb as hell! When you are sick, you shouldn't have to shop around. Yeah, if i have a stroke i'm going to go through the yellow pages to see who will treat me for a better price. Ridiculous! Not to mention, the whole grocery analogy was fallacious and stupid. People don't go into a doctors office telling the doctor what kind of treatment they want. The doctor decides what treatment you need. I have no respect for John Stossel.
sc72090 2 years ago
Most of the stuff people get sick with... they shouldn't even go to the doctor. Often people with insurance choose the most expensive option for something minor, as in the example, an ER for a hangnail. Since insurance spreads the costs this choice ends up driving up costs for everyone.
He was not talking about a stroke, your going to an extreme example to prove your inaccurate point.
Please don't misuse words like fallacious. Big words sound impressive, true but they should fit the meaning.
AikidoSaintTKE 2 years ago
"Often people with insurance choose the most expensive option for something minor, as in the example, an ER for a hangnail." This is a very common argument for people who have no clear knowledge of health-care. This is obviously an exaggeration and holds no real legitimacy.
"Please don't misuse words like fallacious. Big words sound impressive..." Fallacious is not a big word. Maybe you should expand your vocabulary. Pneumonoultramicroscopicsilico is a big word.
taingera 2 years ago
Really? Most everyone I know who has insurance go to the doctor way more often than they need to. Minor injuries and discomforts lead to a medical visit. Maybe the people I know are exceptions to the general rule though, just going off of what I observe.
My point was more about the misuse of a word. Big may have been the wrong choice, words not commonly used in everyday language. And yes that is a very big word.
However if you can show me the fallacy I'll retract my statement.
AikidoSaintTKE 2 years ago
Why is Stossel asking a Whole Foods owner on healthcare?
taingera 3 years ago
Who cares? What he says is true. His company a good example of HSA's in action if you really must know.
AikidoSaintTKE 2 years ago
were all praying ur dumass gets cancer
lolointro1 2 years ago
You're praying I get cancer? Why? Because I disagree with Universal Healthcare? That's a pretty messed up thing to say. I wish you good health my friend.
AikidoSaintTKE 2 years ago
did u get cancer yet?...no?,,,,damn
lolointro1 2 years ago
im joking
lolointro1 2 years ago
No it's not. This is an illogical argument, and do you know anything about HSA? HSA has it's flaws and that's why there is a big issue in health reform.
taingera 2 years ago
You know in France when you get cancer, you don't pay anything (in fact you pay not much). But if you actually had to pay for it, 95% of the population won't be able to pay without getting deeply into debts (at the least).
And by the way, in France healtcare is NOT free for people. Each working man pays a part of his wage for healthcare. The only difference between an HMO and french social security is that paying that part is mandatory.
redguard12 3 years ago
Uhm....if Whole Foods market costs for their employees health care went "way down" as the ceo says, then..why the heck have prices RAISED A LOT when I shop at Whole Foods?? Prices should have gone down. that means that the ceo guy is taking additional millions for himself which I would have preferred to stay in the health care for workers. that's why WHole Foods markets are popping out everywhere these days.
anubys2 3 years ago
Food Costs accross the board have raised (not just at whole foods) due to a number of factors outside of health costs. To put it simply food prices are higher due to high oil costs (which have since dropped but have not made their way through the food prices) Higher demand for corn products (ethanol) and the Iowa Flood that destroyed a lot of product.
gopennstate1996 3 years ago
Profit, profit, profit!
alonelychild 3 years ago
WOW! American's are being taken advantage of. John Stossel actually sounds like he thinks Whole Foods has a good idea.....If you're lucky you can save up enough to have a baby??? LOL wow. That $8,000 won't mean crap if you need a heart by-pass surgery that's $100,000 that your insurance company won't pay for. Do yourselves a favor randomly call a Canadian and ask them if they like free health care. They will say it's great compared to the US.
johnnyjohnnybacon 3 years ago
im canadian and our health care system isnt perfect but im happy with it and its much better than us healthcare
lolointro1 2 years ago
That's because you're healthy. Imagine having a heart attack and couldn't receive treatment w/o waiting.
funglip 2 years ago 5
in that case i wud go to the states and pay for it but the majprity of times canadians go to the doctor is for stuff that can be waited on without a problem...and those who live unhealthy lifestyles pay for it themselves and waiting/going to the states is something they have to take as a consequence
lolointro1 2 years ago
John Stossel: "Paying for treatment is better than getting it free."
Sane people: "Err...why?"
Stossel: "Because paying for treatment makes you think about money more!"
Sane people: "OK, so...you us to pay for the privilege of thinking about money, and THAT'S your argument for private healthcare!?"
Stossel: "Err...well, kinda, yeah."
Sane people: "Fuck this, we're off to Canada!"
Stossel: "But you'll forget how to spend money! You're not smart enough to be treated for free!"
garethac81 3 years ago
wow your a idiot. Do you even have a health plan? You still have a deductible on indv. health insurance and you still have a max out of pocket expense.
HSA plans are what insurance is supposed to be. It is to cover for catastrophic events not your damn sniffles. your paying insurance for when you have a heart attack and your bill is 30 -40g that 5k deductible will look very good. go to canada we need to get rid of the stupid people in america.
mayhem407 3 years ago
garethac81: "Uhm yea, doesnt money grow on trees?"
larsiemannen 3 years ago
What the fuck is money?
=)
cube11235 3 years ago
I can see it now... "THIS WEEKS SPECIALS" 2 liver biopsy's for the price of 1, Economy dialysis half price for a limited time only. LOL
CoZzMiX 3 years ago
If everyone took 1 year to study and understand the basics of economics, there would be fewer poor people, fewer sick people, there would be more innovation, and production would be higher and more balanced. But we are the Staples generation. We just want an "easy button" for everything.
beezalax13 4 years ago
This is absolutely true! I remember taking a mandatory one semester economics course in 10th grade. Many of the economic subjects were taught in a superficial and blasé manner. I eventually forgot a few things and didn't care about some.
I started to read some college level micro and macro economics textbooks in the past year and am surprised at how little I knew about how the economy and capitalism works. My "economic life" has been better ever since.
cube11235 3 years ago
I also think that personal finance should be a mandatory subject in school. So many people have no idea how to manage their money, have no idea what insurance should be used for, and have no idea how to invest.
cube11235 3 years ago 3
And don't say that preventative maintenance can only be afforded by the rich. Stop your cable bill and be economic in your spending and you can afford it. Unhealthy foods can cost just as much as a healthy diet.
YJ4 4 years ago 3
Absolutely.
I saw a pie chart a few months ago that showed how the average American spent their income. Health care was the smallest piece of the pie. I wish I could find the study again. :(
elephantpuke 4 years ago
Not only that, when you point out to them these facts they still go on eating Cheatoos (and then want me to pay if they get sick). If someone wants to spend the same amount of money on healthy foods and a few supplements that have been proven to work (fish oil, for example) and get enough vitamin d and other healthy things, they would eliminate about 90% of all diseases and sicknesses. Healthy people don't get sick.
YJ4 3 years ago
Im 23 years old and have no health insurance and I have a bad gallbladder that I need removed. When I went to the doctor he told me it was acid reflux and would need to do tests before he was willing to take it out. 3 seperate tests all amounting to over 50,000 dollars in order to get my 10,000 surgery. I still have my bad gallbladder and everytime im shaking from the pain hoping to pass out so i dont have to feel it I think if only I didnt eat those cheetos, your an idiot.
VintageEnvy 2 years ago
cheetos FTW
lolointro1 2 years ago
Health problems are the cause of poor lifestyle and ignorance about how to keep healthy. Most ailments can be stopped by preventative maintenance.
YJ4 4 years ago
ok, wtf? since when does the owner of whole foods become a reliable source for health care?
vmreyes 4 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
People who pay high deductibles take better care of themselves BECAUSE THEY HAVE MONEY!! John Stossel has always been a little over the top in trying to play devil's advocate but he's just plain dumb on this one!
gospelmaestro 4 years ago
He controls the money -- hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha THIS is bigest pile of BUSLLSHIT ,.,.,, Dennis Kucinich 2008 ...
aviomaster 4 years ago
Yeah, vote Dennis! infact, if he is not the democratic nominee, I wouldn't even vote!!!
johnh926 4 years ago
This is Bullshit this store owner full of it,he's saving money!
wmbdm 4 years ago
Have you ever heard of respect? I live in one of those 'Eurotrash' places, and I would never call the US trash. That's simply stupid.
mwfte 4 years ago 2
Europe isn't trash! rather yet it's unique how many differnt lanuages are spoken in that continent, I hope to go visit someday!
jfmj83 4 years ago
who cares how many languages they speak? They are all different countries and ethnicities. That doesnt make them better.
AssyrianPride 4 years ago 2
It doesn't make them worse either.
uktransplantedyank 2 years ago
In Germany, we have to pay an regular 10 Euro every three months if we want to see a doctor, and, although it´s declining, the health-care system covers most procedures and medications that are resonable (sadly, no alternative medicine, well, they got in accupuncture by now). But because in Germany everyone is automatically insured wether they are in a job or not, and also everybody under 25 whatever they do, noone will ever deny you a treatment because of a "previous condition".
glmiri 2 years ago
At least your 25th on the list of good healthcare, America is 37!
jeangrey65 2 years ago
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tambert888 4 years ago 2
John Stossel is right on. Competition does make things better and personal responsibility is the only way to go. There is place for Government to be involved and that is ONLY in deregulating monopolies. Government controlling anything only makes a mess. Name one good thing that the Government has done when they have had control over something... School System? wrong!!!
jema32 4 years ago
What is a monopoly? How can a monopoly exists if it is not a government monopoly?
lordmetroid 4 years ago
jema you are on the right track but you need to take your free market thinking a little further. think about what lordmetroid says, when there is total freedom, how can there be any monopoly in the private sector? somebody can always come in and try to offer it better or cheaper. if one co. continues to dominate the market in a particular industry, it prob. is b/c they do it better, cheaper, than anybody else can and that is a good thing
johnebii 4 years ago
'every other nation' as you say does not have a problem with that. they love it, in fact. where are the americans risking life and limb trying to get into other countries? I think it's the other way around. so why should we do what all those countries are doing when their citizens are dying to get in to OUR country? maybe all the things they are doing don't make them so great after all.
johnebii 4 years ago
The people who are dying to get into the US are not from other Western Industrialised countries. And if other countries love Americans taking military actions in other countries, why do their citizens protest in the streets against it? You obviously have no knowledge of other countries.
mwfte 4 years ago
i know chinese crowd themselves into small compartments in the hull of ships in hopes of arriving on our shores in shipping containers.
i know mexicans run towards people pointing guns at them in order to get into this country
I know canadians flock to this country for medical procedures that they can't get in their own country as do heads of state for many other countries. do you deny these facts?
johnebii 4 years ago 2
I do not deny anything about the Chinese; I didn't even address them in the first place. Mexico doesn't have a universal healthcare system, so again, I didn't address them in my previous comments. Canadians do not flock to the US for treatment; that's a rare occurance. I wish that someone on YouTube could have a serious discussion about this issue, but it seems that everyone on your side of the debate only has soundbites and strawmen to throw at me.
mwfte 4 years ago
alright mw...you want a seious discussion of the issues? tell me how things would be better under UHC and i'll respond. or see my channel and watch my vids 'benefits of capitalism- healthcare. you won't find anybody on youtube more prepared for a serious debate than me.
johnebii 4 years ago
Sure, I would really enjoy a good natured discussion of the issue. Should we come up with certain bullet points to outline our discussion?
mwfte 4 years ago
That would be great. What do you say...you raise two points and I will raise two? Or we could do a point/counterpoint type of thing, whatever you think.
johnebii 4 years ago
the only time there can be a true monopoly is when the gov't makes laws that make it illegal to go elsewhere for services or when they force you to spend your money with one provider (water dept's, schools, etc.) then as you know you get bad service from the providers b/c of no incentive to please customers.
johnebii 4 years ago 3
Since every other Western industrialised nation thinks it is, maybe you should get off your high horse and seriously look at the majority view. The fact that you can only talk about this issue with soundbites proves you know nothing about it.
mwfte 4 years ago
'every other nation thinks it is...' yes and every other nation still looks to america as the shining beacon of success and freedom. we stand out to the world not b/c we are the same as the rest of the world but b/c we are different.
johnebii 4 years ago
That is bullshit. As someone who's been to other countries, the ones with universal healthcare do not look to us as a 'beacon of success and freedom.' Seriously, are you only watching Fox News?
mwfte 4 years ago
A majority does not constitute the right choice or the moral choice, it simply constitutes that which it is- a majority choice.
Healthcare is one of the few areas where advances in technology have not corresponded in a decline in cost and availability. If we are observing increased cost with increased government regulation and subsidies, we should start thinking about reversing government regulation and subsidies and giving it a try.
jgrdonquixote 4 years ago 33
Watch it, you're trying to use logic in a topic overflowing with socialists. =p
Shezmu 4 years ago 41
You may just be joking but what is it with Americans and socialism? The Cold War is OVER. Some government control is usually a good thing in my opinion.
I wouldn't want a system where there is no regulation and that is totally market driven. The market inherently doesn't care about people - only money. I would be scared of the injustices that could occur; I think you can already see quite a few in the US health care system.
teutonicpenguin 2 years ago
there should be regulation. however, democrats want government CONTROL, where they tell what the companies have to do. sure, we should regulate companies to keep them from killing each other and stuff like that, but typically, less regulation allows for more companies to innovate better. sure, they only want money. where the hell do they get the money? from the people. if the people feel that another company's better (lower prices or higher quality), then that company will have to follow.
gameragodzilla 2 years ago
And what do the Republicans want? Total capitalism? Did Bush do anything to improve the system? As far as I know, Obama wants a system like France's where there is government regulation but with a mostly capitalist system.
teutonicpenguin 2 years ago
The French system is poorly managed and is nearly going bankrupt (like our social security). Only capitalism and the free market can save us. The free market has gotten us out of every recession/depression so far (yes, even the great depression. it was not the new deal that got us out), and has been the reason why we are the richest and most powerful country in the world. once we get people to care about how much healthcare costs, i guarentee ya, prices will go down.
gameragodzilla 2 years ago
What caused the Great Depression? The failure of the capitalist system (i.e. the markets). Healthcare may be cheaper, but who will have access to everything they need? The poor? I don't think so. Even if the French system is going bankrupt, ours isn't (Australia) and I'd much rather have ours than yours or your suggested new system.
teutonicpenguin 2 years ago
and becoming socialist (FDR) did not get us out. in fact it was capitalism that got us out as well. when we entered ww2, demand rose up considerably, and the economy got back on track. thing is, you guys don't have that many people. in the U.S, social security is going bankrupt (and that just pays for people 65 and above). and if you guys are pretty much the only people not dealing with near bankrupt healthcare, then universal healthcare is not going to be good.
gameragodzilla 2 years ago
That's a moot point - capitalism got you out but you had capitalism when you went into it! Are you an idiot?
No, the 'thing is', we spend less than half what the US does per person on healthcare - that's why we're not bankrupt. See 'Health care in Australia Vs US 08-15-09', on YouTube.
I'm not suggesting you become socialists. I am suggesting pure capitalism is a stupid idea - you can have your markets but you need SOME regulation. And SOME regulation does not mean socialism!
teutonicpenguin 2 years ago
yeah, and and my proposition would LOWER costs, by increasing competition.
I know we need SOME regulation. what you are proposing is not regulation. it is control. that's what all liberals seem to confuse. regulation is a watchful eye. control is when the government takes over. i don't want the government to take over, because government control is always less efficient than the private sector.
HSA's need government money, im just saying that people should decide what they get.
gameragodzilla 2 years ago
Okay, for the sake of argument lets say that the free market is a greed-filled and somehow thus "evil", inefficient system that screws anyone who voluntarily works within said system and despite this and all of your attempts to convince me that your system was better, I still wish to participate in the system. What do you think should happen to me?
Shezmu 2 years ago
Capitalism isn't inefficient it's exactly the opposite (no waste). There are many advantages of it and I'm not suggesting we should be socialists.
But, for example if we had total capitalism, there would be no social security. Anyone who couldn't work and didn't have money saved up (say a fired cleaner - or low paid worker - who could only just afford to live on their earnings, or a disabled person) would have no income and wouldn't be able to afford food etc.
teutonicpenguin 2 years ago
At the same time since they are not paying more in those taxes they can save more. Then it becomes who is responsible for their own retirement plan and should we feel sorry for the ones who don't save at all.
Xantheus07 2 years ago
I'm not sure exactly what taxes you're referring to or whether you mean healthcare when you say 'retirement plan', but anyway:
Poor people pay little or no tax and would therefore never be able to support themselves with it - the middle class and rich pay much more tax to support them. Besides, I think it is unrealistic to think they will save the money. Not everyone is perfectly responsible. What then? We let them suffer in the great American capitalist tradition?
teutonicpenguin 2 years ago
@teutonicpenguin I know this is 7 months late, but I gotta respond. You say: "We let them suffer in the great American capitalist tradition?"
The answer is: yes. If you make stupid decisions, you have to deal with the consequences. Are you saying that if someone wastes their money on alcohol and don't have enough to put gas in the car I should have to pay for that? HOW WILL THEY LEARN?
LaughingMage 1 year ago
@LaughingMage Sometimes shit just happens, no? When someone's bankrupt because their existence is only a privilege, they probably won't have time to learn much of anything. So I guess you'll be surrounded by subclass retards all the time anyway.
Xpenguin17revived 1 year ago
@LaughingMage how about someone is born with a genetic condition and needs to take tablets and needs regular check ups for the rest of their lives? How fair is that. We are not all born perfectly healthy!!
tinarett 1 year ago
@teutonicpenguin - "We let them suffer in the great American capitalist tradition?"
That American capitalist tradition you demean is responsible for more reductions in human suffering than any other in the history of humanity.
mpc91 1 year ago
@mpc91 You cant be serious
Darkbunnyfufu 11 months ago
@Darkbunnyfufu - Completely.
mpc91 11 months ago
@Shezmu You speak for all the retarded conservatives who have no grounds for argument once you find that rationing is a tool of the system regardless of single payer, public option, etc., care is cheaper and better when done with government insurance options, the most respected scholar on the subject is for a mix system with a strong public option (he also happens to feel that the government is so inadequate that it couldn't handle a single payer system) - which is ideal.
SirDamienQFox 1 year ago
And lastly, you can't over come the reality that people should care about the health of others and spreading risk across the community is preferable to spreading risk across smaller selfish insurance companies. This is class war at it's most obvious. Healthcare for all, just sounds right.
SirDamienQFox 1 year ago
As a future version of the person you're responding to, you are aware that pretty much all governments are about to get nuked economically speaking, right? Assuming you agree with the previous statement, what's going to happen to the people depended on Nationalized healthcare when the government runs out of money?
Before you respond, I'm not in support of the wave of medical fascism that plaques the US currently.
Shezmu 1 year ago
Well said, i think we should give laissez-faire a go.
RhodesianFront 4 years ago 2
Edit: my question was made towards
teutonicpenguin. Sorry for the confusion.
Shezmu 2 years ago
@teutonicpenguin : I think you missed my point. I was not asking if the market is efficient/inefficient, I was asking what do you believe should happen to those who want to participate in what you believe to be a peaceful but flawed method of organization.
Shezmu 2 years ago
@jgrdonquixote You know why costs haven't reduced?! It is because of government intervention in the free market. America never had free market healthcare. Look at all the regulations etc
cabgt 1 year ago
@jgrdonquixote What, everyone getting shitty care regardless whether or not they work, whether or not they need it, whether or not it's life threatening, as many doctor visits as they want? I agree for socialized medicine for a degree, but not everything free for everyone.
Depravedmaniac666 1 year ago
I never knew the U.S is this much fxxxed up.
It's just simple, Human life shouldn't be depened on one's wealth.
turncrossesoff 4 years ago
Wealth...health care is not free. You're going to pay for it one way or another. Taxes every year or out of your pocket as you get care. Either way, you pay for it.
pbcinla 4 years ago 2
I'll take personal responsibility or the "nanny state" any day. To do otherwise is the pathway to being a parasite/slave to the state.
sodie77 4 years ago 4
Here, here!
pbcinla 4 years ago
amen.
johnh926 4 years ago