I haven't read every comment here, nor do I intend to do so.
I may not have all the information germain to controversy, but I recall the video in question being on the official White house web page. Talk about deception. Why are they masking the original banner. Since this happened years ago my exact memory may be foggy. However I'm pretty sure I say a different version in which there was a "Mission Accomplished Banner".
@Atbl1TV Um. Actually, this video, and other videos, and lots of other evidence, proves you're ignorant. They are NOT masking any banner. The banner is not in the frame: in fact, it's not even above the President in this camera angle, it's off to his right. So even if you zoomed out, you still wouldn't see it: you'd have to move the camera pretty far to the left, and then zoom out or point up.
Mike McIntee said the video on the White House web site was doctored, and used as proof that the video had black bars. I proved he was wrong. And when I pointed it out to him, he deleted my comments to cover up his error, turning his mistake into a lie.
Unless this MSNBC article has something to do with Mike McIntee's lying, it is irrelevant to the discussion at hand.
look mike is a bright man the fool who is dissing him is a idiot without a life As a mcintee i know that he would not lie. god save mcintee,s all over the world
Shrug. I proved he lied. You can say all you like, but at this point, it is a proven fact: he made a serious error, and then he refused to correct it and deleted anyone, like me, who pointed out the fact that he was in error. That made his error into a lie.
So what is your point? What's wrong in having black bars on videos? We can still see what's happening. It's not like they're putting the bar over his lips so we can't see what he's saying.
What's MY point? Huh? My point is obvious: that the person who said "the black bars prove that the White House manipulated the video" is incorrect, and worse, that when the fact that he is incorrect was pointed out to him, he deleted those comments and didn't post a retraction, turning his error into a lie.
Its interesting that the "Mission Accomplished" banner is not shown on the White House video. Its also interesting that there are still people stupid enough to defend this idiot loser of a President, and they still buy all his deception and lies. 399 more days until this all comes to an end.
No, it's not interesting. This video explained why. No one is defending Bush simply by pointing out that Mike McIntee is being deceptive. Anyway, even if the video WERE edited it's really quite irrelevant in the grand scope of things.
There's a "Mission Accomplished" banner at every Bush speaking engagement, meaning they have to crop it out of every video... hence the black bars on all of them.
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Your pretentious video intentional omitted any mention of what happened to the Mission Accomplished -- Why did you leave out what happened to the Mission Accomplished? -- Where did the Mission Accomplished go?
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Pudgenet, you've built strawman and knocked him down. You get Zero Points! Mike McIntee's point was that the White House video has been reframed to exclude the 'Mission Accomplished' banner. And, It Has! You do NOTHING to contest this, in fact, you ignore it. And by talking about a black bar instead you attempt to mislead everyone. The black bar is not the deception. The reframing of the banner out of the picture is. You are the fraudster.
vwtch, um, no. McIntee said the black bar is evidence of reframing. It is not. That is the point of my video: proving his evidence is not evidence.
Further, in the "Descriptuion" of my video, I link to *original video without black bars.* There is no banner in that video. Further, there is another video on YT showing the angle is such that including the banner in this video is not possible.
The real point is the administration denies saying Mission Accomplished regarding major operations in Iraq. This is simply not true:
USA Today: Posted 6/5/2003. Bush to troops: Mission accomplished. DOHA, Qatar — President Bush ended his trip to Europe and the Middle East on Thursday reveling in the approving roar of troops at Camp As Sayliyah. "America sent you on a mission to remove a grave threat and to liberate an oppressed people, and that mission has been accomplished," he said.
And more importantly, regarding the quote you pasted, THAT MISSION WAS ACCOMPLISHED. It asbolutely was. It was one of the greatest, most decisive, military accomplishments in all recorded history: the complete overthrow of a government's forces in a huge country in mere weeks.
Lol.... pretty funny. I know you know better, but I think people missed that you are just being sarcastic. Of course the mission accomplished banner was there, it was shown on multiple tv news networks, still shots from magazines and eye witnesses. Nice joke though.
It was never shown in this particular video, no. In fact, it is not possible for the banner to have been in this shot, because the banner is way up and off to the side: the camera would have to zoom way out to see it.
Not sure why these simple facts are so hard for some people to understand.
You are lying or ignorant ... since you've been given links to the unedited original footage and have provided no evidence of any original footage that has it, I'd say you are lying. But you could instead be just intentionally ignorant. Either way, I am blocking you now.
pudge LOL! just noticed you removed the link to the "original video" you kept bragging about...why is that? "pudgenet (6 days ago)
Again: we have the ORIGINAL VIDEO. There are no black bars in the original. And there's no banner, either. And it wasn't shot for "PR," it was shot by AP. I just added a link to the video in the Description. Go look. Nothing was removed, nothing was added. The black bar covers up nothing, on the top or bottom."
No banner? what are you blind? THE LARGEST "MISSION ACCOMPLISHED" BANNER appears over Bush's head as he finishes the words:" The United States And Our Allies have prevailed" as per your own link at the Washington Post. Since links can't be posted except in "description", I suggest people go to the WaPo site and put in : Bush: Iraq Combat Over
Correct, no banner. The problem is you are ignorant of what "the original" means. The WaPo video is several different video shots made into one; I was -- obvious to any rational observer -- talking about the video shot that was in the WH video, which has -- as I said, and as the video proves -- no banner.
Don't get your hopes up. There's an asterisk next to May 5, 2003 on the Way Back Machine, which only mean one thing: That page has been edited after it was created. If anything, you're only proving that the video has been modified.
Well, in fact, no. I never said the WH page or video has not been modified. I said there is no evidence it has been modified in away that covered anything up. That remains true.
I think I made it clear in my video that the issue was the Mission Accomplished banner, not the black bar. To be quite honest, I have no idea why the black bar is there, hence I didn't address the black bar at all. Some of the audio links to Bush's weekly radio addresses had been scrubbed as well. The evidence is overwhelming, and it wouldn't surprise me if the video has been modified.
And *I* made it clear there is NO EVIDENCE AT ALL that the banner was ever in this video. If the evidence against me is overwhelming, where is it? You've provided precisely none.
Two problems I see in your video. First, I've decided to launch my own investigation, and I find it rather interesting that all of the 2003 videos -- the year we went to war -- are blacked out, but not 2004, 2005, 2006, or 2007. Secondly, no stills from that "Mission Accomplished" day show that sign. Are you Bush supporters ashamed of it or something? Thanks, have a nice day :).
None of those "problems" have anything to do with my video. As a commenter already said, we HAVE the original video, without the black bar. It shows there was no crop-and-shift, there was merely a black bar over the bottom portion.
And I've seen lots of stills with that sign. Do you mean none are on the White House? Why wasn't John Kerry's involvement in Winter Soldier on his campaign web site? He realizes people out there think it reflects poorly on him, so he doesn't advertise it. BFD.
pudgenet I'm going to respond to you in 2 posts..Post#1...Before you call anyone a liar, you should do more research. And yes those "problems" have everything to do with your video. It's inaccurate. As one of the posters has stated & I went to the White House website and checked it myself, you are not presenting a true picture. All of the 2003 (the year we went to war with Iraq) videos have the black bar. But none on the 2004,2005, 2006, or 2007. I find that very curious, indeed.
pudgenet..continuing to Post #2..In addition none of the stills on the White House website show the "Mission Accomplished" banner. Not a one. To black bar all of the 2003 videos and NONE of the years following, is beyond strange and yes, it does give the impression they are trying to hide something. Not that I blame them, I would be ashamed of what was done in that year if I were them too. I think you owe Mr.McIntee and apology.
Why should any of the stills have the banner? What's that got to do with my video, in any way? (Hint: nothing!)
Already addressed your incorrect claim about the lack of banner later being interesting.
I owe McIntee no apology. He lied. Not in his video, where he was mistaken, but in his deletion of every comment that pointed out he was mistaken. He covered up the truth, which turned his mistake into a lie.
pudgenet It has everything to do with your "point". Processing changed for only the 2003 year? And only on the White House website? LOL. How convenient! Bush & Co 1st blamed "overzealous" Sailors for posting that "banner" Then the TRUTH came out, wasn't the Sailors, it was PR from the bush camp. Repubs talk a lot about "taking responsibilty" then run & hide faster than 'Mr Bring It On" did during Vietnam & 9/11. "Bring It On" while our soldiers r in harm's way, no less.
To blame Sailors for their own lies is uncomprehensible, & appalling but then there's Walter Reed & Rats & Roaches & Mold... Tells us exactly how bush "supports" the military. So nothing new there. Even now he runs & hides when it comes to that banner.
pudgenet What's "interesting" is this..in your own rush to make Mcintee look like a liar, you have instead, succeeded in proving that about bush & yourself. Bush & Co wanted that banner put up, it was, now they want no part of it.. not on video or stills, especially not on the White House website, for all to see. Lets all pretend it never happened, except how do you tell that to the 28,000 wounded and the familes of the 3,569 dead? "Mission Accomplished" ? more like "Misery Accomplished"
pudgenet Of course you wont apologize, it takes a big person to admit a mistake, something it seems neither you or bush are capable of. But believe me when I tell you, a Majority of Americans now see thru bush's lies and incompetence and are tired of it. You can cover for the son of "Read My Lips" all you want, no one is buying it anymore.
Shrug. Point out a mistake I made. The facts are clear: the black bar on the video proves nothing; the original video had no banner; the video could not have included the banner unless it shot the speech from an angle and looking up, rather than the normal way of straight ahead and level, or looking slightly down. You hate Bush so much you are blind to the facts.
You are so blind, you're the one who can't see the Truth..blame Sailors, blame McIntee for the actions of a coward by the name of bush. Did he want that banner displayed? YES! Did he 1st blame Sailors for putting it up? YES! Does he now RUN from it? Yes! Case closed.
pudgenet Trouble is, he isnt lying. You are so blind you can't "understand" why all of 2003 is black barred, yet no other years are. Or why there are no stills. If it was a snake,it would have bit you. But you keep living in denial. If bush can blame Sailors for his PR, I wouldnt expect you to display any character or integrity either.
Yes, he is lying. He said something blatantly false: that the video was cropped to remove the banner, and that the black bar proves it. That claim has been absolutely, 100%, PROVEN to be false: no sane person can possibly claim otherwise. The original video proves it. And then McIntee deleted posts pointing out his error. He lied. Shrug.
pudgenet Proven? By whom? You? lol! Now that all of 2003 is black barred,& not any other year, it all matches. But we all know why those PR videos were shot & now, how bush wants them to disappear. Like "Heck of a job Brownie", or "The Insurgency is in its last throes." Or "Stay the Course". As it is, bush hides the coffins of our Fallen, so we aren't "reminded", so why not a banner?
Again: we have the ORIGINAL VIDEO. There are no black bars in the original. And there's no banner, either. And it wasn't shot for "PR," it was shot by AP. I just added a link to the video in the Description. Go look. Nothing was removed, nothing was added. The black bar covers up nothing, on the top or bottom.
Just viewed your "original video" link. When was the last time you had your eyes checked? THE LARGEST "MISSION ACCOMPLISHED" BANNER appears over Bush's head as he finishes the words:" The United States And Our Allies have prevailed" then shot of crowd, HUGE MISSION ACCOMPLISHED SIGN & a Headshot with THE BANNER RIGHT ABOVE BUSH'S HEAD. If you can't see that, you're blind as well as deaf & dumb.
Now, Go compare the Washington Post (your link, by the way) "Mission Accomplished" video versus the White House Video, NO SIGN OF THAT BANNER ANYWHERE! You want to see a liar? Go look in the mirror, you're busted, fatso.
Sigh. You're not very bright, are you? The video on the White House page is the view from a single camera. That AP video has multiple camera angles. The main camera angle from the AP video is the one that was used in the White House video ... and again, that's what they normally do for such videos on the White House page. So now you're saying that because they used only a single camera angle, that this is ... evidence of a coverup?
It was never in the video. At any point. Indeed, as another video in this discussion shows, the original video COULD NOT have included the banner, because it was the entirely wrong angle. Any implication it was intentionally left out of the video -- let alone removed from the video -- ignores these facts.
Katie: um, yes, it changed after 2003. So what? I am puzzled by what you think this shows. Do you think this is evidence that the banner was cropped out?
If so, you must not know the fact that there is a link to the original video in question here in this discussion, and it proves beyond any doubt that the video on the White House page has not been cropped to remove the banner, as it was not in the original video either.
Katie: you're wrong. There's nothing interesting or curious about the difference in the videos from 2004 and later that has anything to do with my point. All it means is they changed how they were processing the videos ... so what?
I wish more youtubers would read comment boards before posting their question. Its like going over a FAQ before sending their own common questions. Or at least check out the first 30 comments or so, since there are a lot of stupid/irrelevant comments posted on many videos (particularly featured ones).
Funny the White House web site, doesn't mention the 'Mission Accomplished' banner. You'd think something that's gotten so much media attention would warrant some mention on the White House web site. I think its GOOD to remind the public about that, so they are reminded of this administrations complete and utter incompetence.
Lie? You mean like the Republican ritual? The evangelical Christian habit? The Bush administration routine? You're so played Pudge. There are really only two type of people left who vote for (or support) republicans... the ignorant or the evil. Which are you?
But... but... CLINTON DID IT!!! Hey, I'm just taking a page from the Republican book. Since everying major F-up s--t for brains Bush is ultimately Bill Clinton's fault, according to pretty much ever republican mouth piece in existance, I'd like to take this opportunity to completely distance myself from personal responsibility and point squarely at Bill Clinton. P.S. I never did justify lying.
Um. By saying you are taking a page from the GOP, you are doing precisely what you say they do: playing "tu quoque." It's a logical fallacy I did not engage in, but that EVERY ONE of your posts has done.
And whether you explicitly justified lying, you certainly have attempted to defend it by drawing attention to other things.
Nope. Essentially I said regardless as to whether there was any lying done, it's still GOOD to remind folks of the banner debacle, which is highly representative of the great incompetance of the Bush adminstration and countless lies that have been told to the American people, in order to advance the ulterior motives of a small corupt group of ideologes.
Shrug. Read the speech: the "Mission" Bush was clearly referring to was the invasion. That mission WAS accomplished, in grand fashion. Anyone who thinks the banner was incorrect isn't paying attention to what Bush actually said.
REALLY Clemtoe? Wow, you could have fooled me! I was SURE that was the philosophy of the conservative republican and evangelical Christian. I mean after all just look at George Bush, Dick Cheney, and most of their administration, or the hordes of corupt congressional republicans, or the evangelical leaders who do little more than bear false witness against those they dislike in order to advance their theocratic agenda.
What you call a MERELY ERROR IN INTELLIGENCE (!!!!) is causing the death of hundreds of thousands of innocent people. YOU IGNORANT. No wonder why you and millions of stupid americans re-elected a mass murderer: you are all RETARDED.
I'm ignorant? I'm not the one who incorrectly stated that we went to war because we thought Iraq had WMD. It's a common myth, but it is a myth nevertheless.
Look, I won't discuss the killings of hundreds of thousands of innocent people with you because your reality is way too superficial. You don't care about freedom, you know nothing about it, all you care is money. There is something that's definitely not a myth, though: George Bush and the millions of ignorants who are supporting him are the epitome of years and years of incompetent, violent, and irresponsible politics.
Your personal attacks of me are all false and based on ignorance. Indeed, I care about nothing more than I care about liberty, and I couldn't care less about money. I know a lot more about the issues than you do, so calling me ignorant or incompetent certainly isn't reasonable either.
What is true is that you are so angry that it's made you blind to facts.
Even though the mission to remove Saddam from power was successful, the aftermath following is still not successful. Also, it may have been "absolutely extradorinary" to remove the government in Iraq from power, even more so if the current government in Iraq is falling apart, and a civil war has broken out.
The aftermath has so far not been successful, but this was always stated to be a long-term deal. Bush and Rumsfeld talked from the beginning about this taking years; yes, they did admit they were wrong about our levels over time, but still, we knew it would be hard and take a long time. It has not been successful so far, but it still could be.
So you dont rememeber "It is unknowable how long that conflict [the war in Iraq] will last. It could last six days, six weeks. I doubt six months." -Rumsfeld Feb 7 03'
I remember it well enough to know you're taking it out of context. He was speaking specifically about the invasion, which, as you know, lasted only a couple of months. Try again!
You know that he was implying that the WAR ITSELF would be over in 6 months. but Ok Ill try again..."the insurgency is in the last throws" How about other lies? "we know where they are, (WMD) theyre in the area around Tikrit and Bahgdad..." LIES.
Actually, I know precisely that he was implying that the invasion would be complete by then. You're wrong. And you misspelled "throes," and that wasn't Rumsfeld, and it wasn't a lie: it was an incorrect prediction. And we already know that the WMD stuff wasn't a lie, but was merely an error in intelligence. Keep trying! "WhyNotTruth," my ass.
Ok so we were wrong about Iraq, so we should withdraw in disgrace, right? Ohh thats right the war already started so we can't "cut and run" now!! How convenient. What a coincidence!! Anyone who still trusts this administration is a complete fool. You have an error in your intelligence. "Pudgenet" my ass.
Why withdraw? I supported going into Iraq even though I didn't believe that there were WMD. We had many reasons for invading, and WMD was only one of them. Read the war resolution.
"we already know that the WMD stuff wasn't a lie, but was merely an error in intelligence." Like how the faulty "Yellow Cake from Niger" intelligence report was left in the Presidents speech "by mistake". You actually believe they just left it in on accident? This is pointless, how can you debate with someone who has such little regard for the truth? Later Pudgee
You're ignorant about the yellowcake from Niger. Read the Butler report. The "16 words" were "well-founded." It should have been left out of the speech, because the CIA could not verify the British intel, but there's no indication whatsoever that the claim was actually incorrect. Try agin!
Lies about how much the war would cost the American taxpayer?? Oh thats right, you would just call it an error in judgement. How many errors in judgement must these people have before you will realize the truth. They are liars!
Oh yeah, because no politicians ever underestimate how much something will cost. Not that I condone it, but the Democrats lie just as much about that as the Republicans do.
Respectfully pudgenet, you are tell me what the President was referring to, I'm telling you what he said.
In the second sentence of his speech, he said, "Major combat operations in Iraq have ended. In the Battle of Iraq, the United States and our allies have prevailed.".
There were 450 or so solders KIA on the day of that speech, there are 3,000 with many more WIA now... is that "prevailing"?
Google, "Bush insists Iraq, al Qaeda had 'relationship'"
You have to look at context to know what "Battle of Iraq" means. The VERY NEXT SENTENCE was, "And now our coalition is engaged in securing and reconstructing that country." How could we be engaged in securing the country if, as you are implying, Bush was saying the country was already secure? Clearly, he was not saying we "have prevailed" in securing Iraq, only in overthrowing Hussein. And in that, of course we had prevailed.
padgent, securing and reconstruction are mop-up operations after a battle won... as in post-WWII Japan, Germany, and Italy.
It's 3000 KIA and tens of thousands WIA later.
Sorry, your trying to convince me the sun rises in the West and sets in the East... or that Bush did not say, "In the BATTLE OF IRAQ, the United States and our allies HAVE PREVAILED."
Use any matrix, context or clarification, you're arguing against a direct quote.
I am not arguing against a direct quote. I am saying you do not know what "Battle of Iraq" means, and that it is clear from the context. If you were correct, the next sentence would make no sense. You're wrong.
As to al Qaeda / Iraq, it's true. There is evidence there was a relationship, that they had some discussions about various things. There is no evidence of an operational relationship, and no evidence that Iraq was involved with 9/11 in any way. But there is evidence of a relationship. Saying so is not a lie.
"It is (a lie) if you are a top gov official with access to classified CIA intel that states Saddam was not supporting Al-Qaeda and say other wise."
You are misunderstanding plain English. Bush never said Saddam was supporting al Qaeda, he said they had a relationship. There were meetings, there was communication. That does not mean support.
It should also be mentioned in the speech you refer to, that President Bush said, "THE BATTLE OF IRAQ IS ONE VICTORY (emphasis mine) in a war on terror that began on September 11, 2001, and still goes on."
I'm having a hard time seeing how the President saying, "The battle in Iraq is one victory..." could be spun any different.
Btw, The Bush admin suggesting that Iraq had something to do with 9/11... THAT'S a lie.
Again, he was specifically referring to the battle *to remove Hussein from power.* That was the context of his remarks. He said later in the same speech that there was more work yet to do *in Iraq,* which seems to me to support my interpretation, and not yours.
And no, the Bush administration did not suggest Iraq had something to do with 9/11. They said that 9/11 and Iraq are both part of the same larger conflict, but not that they were directly related.
The Bush admin first said the NAVY created the banner on it's own, THAT was a lie.
The title of the clip both you and Mr. McIntee use on the official WH press release.... "President Bush Announces Major Combat Operations in Iraq Have Ended".
From "Mission Accomplished", "Bring it on," to the numerous other clusterf*cks... this President has proven himself to be a cowboy who's WAY out of his league as President.
Yes, he said major combat operations ended. Then the situation on the ground changed, and major combat operations resumed.
I am not saying the war was handled well, or that Bush is a great President (though I'd rather have him than Kerry or Gore). I am saying "MISSION ACCOMPLISHED" referred to the mission to invade Iraq and oust Hussein, and that this mission WAS accomplished. It was perhaps the most successful mission of its kind in history. If only the rest of the war had gone as well ...
Please re-read your last two sentences... that's quite the contradiction isn't it.
A competent, thoughtful admin staffed by serious adults (like Colin Powell) would not have declared "Mission Accomplished" replete with fight suit, over winning the relatively minor battle or x'ing Saddam while failing to realize the MASSIVE sectarian violence they would unleash in Iraq.
"Please re-read your last two sentences... that's quite the contradiction isn't it."
No, it's not. The mission is not the same as the war. This is what I have been saying. The mission to remove Hussein from power was accomplished, and was extremely successful.
I don't know what history books you've read, but removing the established government from power in a huge counry like Iraq in a matter of weeks is no "minor" thing. It was absolutely extraordinary.
No, you have it backwards. It is in fact NOT POSSIBLE for the banner to have been cropped out.
The original video (no black bars, full frame), linked to in a comment above, shows there was no banner in the original video, therefore none was cropped out.
Another link above shows the placement of the camera, podium, and banner makes it impossible for the banner to have been included in the video: it was way up and to the left of the camera's view.
pudgent, I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and say Mcintee is dead wrong about the "black box" having anything to do with a cropping mechanism.
And I see that it is another camera angle... yer right.
Still you know the WH is embarrassed by that banner.
Actually, I think ANY attention brought to that banner is a good thing... BUSH was wrong in a war that will cost America one trillion dollars.
They are embarrassed, although, if you actually listen to/read Bush's speech ... he actually said the war wasn't over, that they had a lot of work left to do. The "MISSION" referred to in "MISSION ACCOMPLISHED" was the overthrow of Hussein. And that mission WAS accomplished.
And I think the war was the right thing to do and I stand by it. Of course, I never believed Iraq had WMD, so I am a little different ...
The deception is from the White House. We've been lied to for 6 six years and our soldiers are dying as a result. I guess when you're governed by liars, it rubs off a bit. I like Mike.
Riiiiight. Mike couldn't help himself! He lied, covered up the truth, tried to shut down all voices of opposition, because he could not help but follow the example set by Bush! THAT MAKES PERFECT SENSE!
Well spotted. It is a shame that some people are (hateful?) like this that they will push out false information and others will just eat it up blindly. Good job debunking. 5+ stars.
Maybe they put that black bar there to match "Mission Accomplished" video, so there wouldn't be any suspicions. Anyway, it doesn't take much to realize that Bush lied when he said "Mission Accomplished", "there were ties between 9-11 and Al-qaeda", "Iraq was trying to buy nukes from Niger", "there were Al Qaeda in Iraq (prior to the Iraq occupation)", and so on and so forth. How many more lies do we have to hear from this idiot.
Bush never said "Mission Accomplished." He said the battle to remove Hussein from power was won (which is true).
"there were ties between 9-11 and Al-qaeda." This is fact, of course.
"Iraq was trying to buy nukes from Niger." Bush said they were trying to buy uranium, not nukes. And this is still possibly true (read the Butler Report).
"there were Al Qaeda in Iraq (prior to the Iraq occupation)," that may be true (see Abu Hamza al-Muhajir).
The end result is most important here. Even if McIntee is wrong about the black bar, SOMETHING was changed to keep the "Mission Accomplished" banner out of the field of view and was almost certainly done to keep folks from being "reminded" of the Mission Accomplished BS. It just can't be denied that some manipulation was done to hide the banner....PERIOD!
Actually, no, you're wrong. Not only do I deny it, but I have proof that you're wrong. You just WANT it to have been manipulated. There's another video on here that shows the angle of the video camera was totally incapable of showing the banner unless it was zoomed WAY out. Nice try though.
shouldn't he have? the troops had defeated the ba'athist regime and its army. the actual thing about "mission accomplished" which upsets progressives is that the removal of hussein and his regime was a result opposite of what they desired. that is why they go about twitching and mumbling it to themselves the way mental patients do with the word "bugs".
No McIntee is not lying! The video has been doctored because the Banner is an embarrassment to the Bush administration. Bush lies and his groupies support him because they are too stupid to open their eyes.
I don't where you got your info from, but I went to the same page Mike McIntee got his info from and found that the black bar as you say is indeed NOT on all of the videos...only the ones that have something to hide. For example there is no black bar on March 27, 2007
President Bush Participates in Demonstration of Alternative Fuel Vehicles at U.S. Postal Service Facility
Yes, it is not on all the videos. I never said it was; some other people incorrectly said so. So what? It is on many videos, and clearly, McIntee was wrong to say that it is evidence of cropping to remove the banner, and anyone who believed him was sucked in to a lie.
there are still 12,300 hits for the phrase "mission accomplished video" on google because when a progressive lie is exposed, progressives keep telling it, because progressives lie intentionally about everything without shame and with millitancy.
Mike McIntee being deceptive makes my brain hurt!
Why does it matter? Because McIntee's lies were being sent around as truth to lots of people. So I pointed out the fact that he was lying. I think truth matters, personally ...
why did this McIntee guy even make this vid? What is he trying to accomplish? THE WHITE HOUSE IS TRYING TO DECEIVE YOU! Thank you for that revelation. Why not also tell me that Christmas is in December.
Unfortunately the main point of the other video was to show that "MISSION ACCOMPLISHED" had been taken out. Good work at completely discrediting the irrelevant part of the argument.
Um. No. I discredited his argument that the banner had been taken out. He provided no evidence of it, and I discredited his attempt to show it, and as others in this discussion showed, there is positive evidence that it never happened (including links to the original AP video without the black bar, and another YT video that showed the angle was all wrong and it would have been impossible to show the banner). But hey, I know you'd rather just think Bush is evil, so don't let me stop you.
Liberals have the tendency to wish events and circumstances into existance. Thanx for posting this lucid explaination of yet another attempt by a rabid Bush hater to discredit our President.
Funny I don't see any black bars for the scrolls on CNN videos. If you look at Fox you don't see them either. The scrolls play OVER the scene. They dont' cut out a 3 of the image. It would look pretty damning if ONLY that one video in the entire collection of WHs videos had that 'black bar' now wouldn't it?
Wow. The Iraq war is still a great failure and stain on our nation. You go ahead and whine about the black bar all you want, but your great talents would be better spent fighting in this great war that you believe is such a noble cause.
Looks like an undertandable error, if it is an error, and of no consequence. The war and the President are the worst military and diplomatic disaster in the history of the US. Even Poppy has called in his Baker-led team to fix it. Let's concentrate on getting the nation back on track and skip this childish stuff.
Whatever. The dude accused the White House of doing something it didn't do. I proved he was wrong. He proceeded to delete my comments to cover up his error, turning the error (and it is an error, beyond all reasonable doubt) -- if indeed it was unintentional -- into a lie.
If you think it is too childish to care about, that's your business. But he lied, and I think it's worth pointing out when people are lying, even if you don't.
I believe you would have to prove he is lying. He can be misinformed.
Mind you deleting comments is a bit much. I would say more likely he got egg on his face and didn't want to be caught out.
Ironically this is how Bush distracted people from his suspect war record. Something gets released that shows a conspiracy, it is shot down and everyone forgets about the whole "Mission Accomplished" screw up. It's PYSOPS 101 tbh.
I haven't read every comment here, nor do I intend to do so.
I may not have all the information germain to controversy, but I recall the video in question being on the official White house web page. Talk about deception. Why are they masking the original banner. Since this happened years ago my exact memory may be foggy. However I'm pretty sure I say a different version in which there was a "Mission Accomplished Banner".
Atbl1TV 10 months ago
@Atbl1TV Um. Actually, this video, and other videos, and lots of other evidence, proves you're ignorant. They are NOT masking any banner. The banner is not in the frame: in fact, it's not even above the President in this camera angle, it's off to his right. So even if you zoomed out, you still wouldn't see it: you'd have to move the camera pretty far to the left, and then zoom out or point up.
pudgenet 10 months ago
"Bush pays price for 'Mission Accomplished' sign
White House admits fault on banner seen to declare Iraq victory 5 years ago" Article can be found on MSNBC, just google it.
KatieRoseNY 3 years ago
Um. What does that have to do with anything?
Mike McIntee said the video on the White House web site was doctored, and used as proof that the video had black bars. I proved he was wrong. And when I pointed it out to him, he deleted my comments to cover up his error, turning his mistake into a lie.
Unless this MSNBC article has something to do with Mike McIntee's lying, it is irrelevant to the discussion at hand.
pudgenet 3 years ago
look mike is a bright man the fool who is dissing him is a idiot without a life As a mcintee i know that he would not lie. god save mcintee,s all over the world
johnty0 3 years ago
Shrug. I proved he lied. You can say all you like, but at this point, it is a proven fact: he made a serious error, and then he refused to correct it and deleted anyone, like me, who pointed out the fact that he was in error. That made his error into a lie.
There is nothing you can say to change that fact.
pudgenet 3 years ago
So what is your point? What's wrong in having black bars on videos? We can still see what's happening. It's not like they're putting the bar over his lips so we can't see what he's saying.
miltytube 4 years ago
What's MY point? Huh? My point is obvious: that the person who said "the black bars prove that the White House manipulated the video" is incorrect, and worse, that when the fact that he is incorrect was pointed out to him, he deleted those comments and didn't post a retraction, turning his error into a lie.
pudgenet 4 years ago
Excellent detective work, my friend.
KannoFire 4 years ago 3
Its interesting that the "Mission Accomplished" banner is not shown on the White House video. Its also interesting that there are still people stupid enough to defend this idiot loser of a President, and they still buy all his deception and lies. 399 more days until this all comes to an end.
Lomstradamus 4 years ago
No, it's not interesting. This video explained why. No one is defending Bush simply by pointing out that Mike McIntee is being deceptive. Anyway, even if the video WERE edited it's really quite irrelevant in the grand scope of things.
EleoChan 4 years ago
No, no, no, no... you've got it all wrong.
There's a "Mission Accomplished" banner at every Bush speaking engagement, meaning they have to crop it out of every video... hence the black bars on all of them.
adrosal 4 years ago 6
Oh right. My bad. I take it all back!
pudgenet 4 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Your pretentious video intentional omitted any mention of what happened to the Mission Accomplished -- Why did you leave out what happened to the Mission Accomplished? -- Where did the Mission Accomplished go?
usairways101 4 years ago
Um.
First, you don't know what "pretentious" means.
Second, the banner WAS NEVER IN THIS VIDEO ANGLE. It is way up and to the right of Bush's head. It's not there because it was never there.
pudgenet 4 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Pudgenet, you've built strawman and knocked him down. You get Zero Points! Mike McIntee's point was that the White House video has been reframed to exclude the 'Mission Accomplished' banner. And, It Has! You do NOTHING to contest this, in fact, you ignore it. And by talking about a black bar instead you attempt to mislead everyone. The black bar is not the deception. The reframing of the banner out of the picture is. You are the fraudster.
vwtch 4 years ago
vwtch, um, no. McIntee said the black bar is evidence of reframing. It is not. That is the point of my video: proving his evidence is not evidence.
Further, in the "Descriptuion" of my video, I link to *original video without black bars.* There is no banner in that video. Further, there is another video on YT showing the angle is such that including the banner in this video is not possible.
pudgenet 4 years ago
The real point is the administration denies saying Mission Accomplished regarding major operations in Iraq. This is simply not true:
USA Today: Posted 6/5/2003. Bush to troops: Mission accomplished. DOHA, Qatar — President Bush ended his trip to Europe and the Middle East on Thursday reveling in the approving roar of troops at Camp As Sayliyah. "America sent you on a mission to remove a grave threat and to liberate an oppressed people, and that mission has been accomplished," he said.
erikrex 4 years ago
you said that the administration denies saying "mission accompished".
where and when did they issue such a denial?
you're just compounding mike mcintee's lie. stop digging.
clemtoe 4 years ago
As clemtoe said, they never denied saying it.
And more importantly, regarding the quote you pasted, THAT MISSION WAS ACCOMPLISHED. It asbolutely was. It was one of the greatest, most decisive, military accomplishments in all recorded history: the complete overthrow of a government's forces in a huge country in mere weeks.
pudgenet 4 years ago
.... all while avoiding being hit with invisible WMD's !
obijan42 3 years ago
Lol.... pretty funny. I know you know better, but I think people missed that you are just being sarcastic. Of course the mission accomplished banner was there, it was shown on multiple tv news networks, still shots from magazines and eye witnesses. Nice joke though.
silencergroup 4 years ago
It was never shown in this particular video, no. In fact, it is not possible for the banner to have been in this shot, because the banner is way up and off to the side: the camera would have to zoom way out to see it.
Not sure why these simple facts are so hard for some people to understand.
pudgenet 4 years ago
No, that isn't true, actually. Saw the original footage.
silencergroup 4 years ago
No, you did not. I have links above to the original footage. See for yourself. You're wrong.
What you saw was different footage from different camera angles.
pudgenet 4 years ago
It is possible, it is in the original footage, but thanks for being an asshole. Your saying so doesn't make it true.
Anyway, I wasted more than enough time on this idiocy. I am starting to think you actually mean this bullshit.
silencergroup 4 years ago
You are lying or ignorant ... since you've been given links to the unedited original footage and have provided no evidence of any original footage that has it, I'd say you are lying. But you could instead be just intentionally ignorant. Either way, I am blocking you now.
pudgenet 4 years ago
Damn, you have time to waste on bullshit, must be nice to be you. (not!)
Carlitos1010 4 years ago
Yawn.
pudgenet 4 years ago
Yeap, that's the right reaction to your videos....yawn..!
Carlitos1010 4 years ago
And you are "wasting" your time commenting because ... ?
pudgenet 4 years ago
...because I can,.. and because it's fun to pick on dorky kids like you.
Carlitos1010 4 years ago
Yawn.
pudgenet 4 years ago
pudge LOL! just noticed you removed the link to the "original video" you kept bragging about...why is that? "pudgenet (6 days ago)
Again: we have the ORIGINAL VIDEO. There are no black bars in the original. And there's no banner, either. And it wasn't shot for "PR," it was shot by AP. I just added a link to the video in the Description. Go look. Nothing was removed, nothing was added. The black bar covers up nothing, on the top or bottom."
KatieRoseNY 4 years ago
No banner? what are you blind? THE LARGEST "MISSION ACCOMPLISHED" BANNER appears over Bush's head as he finishes the words:" The United States And Our Allies have prevailed" as per your own link at the Washington Post. Since links can't be posted except in "description", I suggest people go to the WaPo site and put in : Bush: Iraq Combat Over
Thursday, May 1, 2003; 9:14 PM
KatieRoseNY 4 years ago
Correct, no banner. The problem is you are ignorant of what "the original" means. The WaPo video is several different video shots made into one; I was -- obvious to any rational observer -- talking about the video shot that was in the WH video, which has -- as I said, and as the video proves -- no banner.
pudgenet 4 years ago
Don't get your hopes up. There's an asterisk next to May 5, 2003 on the Way Back Machine, which only mean one thing: That page has been edited after it was created. If anything, you're only proving that the video has been modified.
showtime1983 4 years ago
Well, in fact, no. I never said the WH page or video has not been modified. I said there is no evidence it has been modified in away that covered anything up. That remains true.
pudgenet 4 years ago
I think I made it clear in my video that the issue was the Mission Accomplished banner, not the black bar. To be quite honest, I have no idea why the black bar is there, hence I didn't address the black bar at all. Some of the audio links to Bush's weekly radio addresses had been scrubbed as well. The evidence is overwhelming, and it wouldn't surprise me if the video has been modified.
showtime1983 4 years ago
And *I* made it clear there is NO EVIDENCE AT ALL that the banner was ever in this video. If the evidence against me is overwhelming, where is it? You've provided precisely none.
pudgenet 4 years ago
Two problems I see in your video. First, I've decided to launch my own investigation, and I find it rather interesting that all of the 2003 videos -- the year we went to war -- are blacked out, but not 2004, 2005, 2006, or 2007. Secondly, no stills from that "Mission Accomplished" day show that sign. Are you Bush supporters ashamed of it or something? Thanks, have a nice day :).
showtime1983 4 years ago
None of those "problems" have anything to do with my video. As a commenter already said, we HAVE the original video, without the black bar. It shows there was no crop-and-shift, there was merely a black bar over the bottom portion.
And I've seen lots of stills with that sign. Do you mean none are on the White House? Why wasn't John Kerry's involvement in Winter Soldier on his campaign web site? He realizes people out there think it reflects poorly on him, so he doesn't advertise it. BFD.
pudgenet 4 years ago
pudgenet I'm going to respond to you in 2 posts..Post#1...Before you call anyone a liar, you should do more research. And yes those "problems" have everything to do with your video. It's inaccurate. As one of the posters has stated & I went to the White House website and checked it myself, you are not presenting a true picture. All of the 2003 (the year we went to war with Iraq) videos have the black bar. But none on the 2004,2005, 2006, or 2007. I find that very curious, indeed.
KatieRoseNY 4 years ago
pudgenet..continuing to Post #2..In addition none of the stills on the White House website show the "Mission Accomplished" banner. Not a one. To black bar all of the 2003 videos and NONE of the years following, is beyond strange and yes, it does give the impression they are trying to hide something. Not that I blame them, I would be ashamed of what was done in that year if I were them too. I think you owe Mr.McIntee and apology.
KatieRoseNY 4 years ago
Why should any of the stills have the banner? What's that got to do with my video, in any way? (Hint: nothing!)
Already addressed your incorrect claim about the lack of banner later being interesting.
I owe McIntee no apology. He lied. Not in his video, where he was mistaken, but in his deletion of every comment that pointed out he was mistaken. He covered up the truth, which turned his mistake into a lie.
pudgenet 4 years ago
pudgenet It has everything to do with your "point". Processing changed for only the 2003 year? And only on the White House website? LOL. How convenient! Bush & Co 1st blamed "overzealous" Sailors for posting that "banner" Then the TRUTH came out, wasn't the Sailors, it was PR from the bush camp. Repubs talk a lot about "taking responsibilty" then run & hide faster than 'Mr Bring It On" did during Vietnam & 9/11. "Bring It On" while our soldiers r in harm's way, no less.
KatieRoseNY 4 years ago
To blame Sailors for their own lies is uncomprehensible, & appalling but then there's Walter Reed & Rats & Roaches & Mold... Tells us exactly how bush "supports" the military. So nothing new there. Even now he runs & hides when it comes to that banner.
KatieRoseNY 4 years ago
pudgenet What's "interesting" is this..in your own rush to make Mcintee look like a liar, you have instead, succeeded in proving that about bush & yourself. Bush & Co wanted that banner put up, it was, now they want no part of it.. not on video or stills, especially not on the White House website, for all to see. Lets all pretend it never happened, except how do you tell that to the 28,000 wounded and the familes of the 3,569 dead? "Mission Accomplished" ? more like "Misery Accomplished"
KatieRoseNY 4 years ago
pudgenet Of course you wont apologize, it takes a big person to admit a mistake, something it seems neither you or bush are capable of. But believe me when I tell you, a Majority of Americans now see thru bush's lies and incompetence and are tired of it. You can cover for the son of "Read My Lips" all you want, no one is buying it anymore.
KatieRoseNY 4 years ago
Shrug. Point out a mistake I made. The facts are clear: the black bar on the video proves nothing; the original video had no banner; the video could not have included the banner unless it shot the speech from an angle and looking up, rather than the normal way of straight ahead and level, or looking slightly down. You hate Bush so much you are blind to the facts.
pudgenet 4 years ago
You are so blind, you're the one who can't see the Truth..blame Sailors, blame McIntee for the actions of a coward by the name of bush. Did he want that banner displayed? YES! Did he 1st blame Sailors for putting it up? YES! Does he now RUN from it? Yes! Case closed.
KatieRoseNY 4 years ago
OK, so according to you, I should not point out when someone else lies, if the person they are lying about is someone you hate.
Got it! Thanks for the tip!
pudgenet 4 years ago
pudgenet Trouble is, he isnt lying. You are so blind you can't "understand" why all of 2003 is black barred, yet no other years are. Or why there are no stills. If it was a snake,it would have bit you. But you keep living in denial. If bush can blame Sailors for his PR, I wouldnt expect you to display any character or integrity either.
KatieRoseNY 4 years ago
Yes, he is lying. He said something blatantly false: that the video was cropped to remove the banner, and that the black bar proves it. That claim has been absolutely, 100%, PROVEN to be false: no sane person can possibly claim otherwise. The original video proves it. And then McIntee deleted posts pointing out his error. He lied. Shrug.
pudgenet 4 years ago
pudgenet Proven? By whom? You? lol! Now that all of 2003 is black barred,& not any other year, it all matches. But we all know why those PR videos were shot & now, how bush wants them to disappear. Like "Heck of a job Brownie", or "The Insurgency is in its last throes." Or "Stay the Course". As it is, bush hides the coffins of our Fallen, so we aren't "reminded", so why not a banner?
KatieRoseNY 4 years ago
Again: we have the ORIGINAL VIDEO. There are no black bars in the original. And there's no banner, either. And it wasn't shot for "PR," it was shot by AP. I just added a link to the video in the Description. Go look. Nothing was removed, nothing was added. The black bar covers up nothing, on the top or bottom.
You are quite clueless.
pudgenet 4 years ago
Just viewed your "original video" link. When was the last time you had your eyes checked? THE LARGEST "MISSION ACCOMPLISHED" BANNER appears over Bush's head as he finishes the words:" The United States And Our Allies have prevailed" then shot of crowd, HUGE MISSION ACCOMPLISHED SIGN & a Headshot with THE BANNER RIGHT ABOVE BUSH'S HEAD. If you can't see that, you're blind as well as deaf & dumb.
KatieRoseNY 4 years ago
Now, Go compare the Washington Post (your link, by the way) "Mission Accomplished" video versus the White House Video, NO SIGN OF THAT BANNER ANYWHERE! You want to see a liar? Go look in the mirror, you're busted, fatso.
KatieRoseNY 4 years ago
Sigh. You're not very bright, are you? The video on the White House page is the view from a single camera. That AP video has multiple camera angles. The main camera angle from the AP video is the one that was used in the White House video ... and again, that's what they normally do for such videos on the White House page. So now you're saying that because they used only a single camera angle, that this is ... evidence of a coverup?
You're a looney.
pudgenet 4 years ago
I think it's safe to say Pudgenet is in denial. The banner was on the White House's website four years ago, but it was removed. *Sigh*
showtime1983 4 years ago
I never said it wasn't on the web site.
pudgenet 4 years ago
And Pudgenet, I challenge you to show me any stills from that "Mission Accomplished" day that show that sign on the White House's website.
showtime1983 4 years ago
I never said anything about any stills.
pudgenet 4 years ago
It was never in the video. At any point. Indeed, as another video in this discussion shows, the original video COULD NOT have included the banner, because it was the entirely wrong angle. Any implication it was intentionally left out of the video -- let alone removed from the video -- ignores these facts.
pudgenet 4 years ago
I have no idea what you are talking about or how it relates in any way to anything I said.
pudgenet 4 years ago
Katie: um, yes, it changed after 2003. So what? I am puzzled by what you think this shows. Do you think this is evidence that the banner was cropped out?
If so, you must not know the fact that there is a link to the original video in question here in this discussion, and it proves beyond any doubt that the video on the White House page has not been cropped to remove the banner, as it was not in the original video either.
pudgenet 4 years ago
Katie: you're wrong. There's nothing interesting or curious about the difference in the videos from 2004 and later that has anything to do with my point. All it means is they changed how they were processing the videos ... so what?
pudgenet 4 years ago
I wish more youtubers would read comment boards before posting their question. Its like going over a FAQ before sending their own common questions. Or at least check out the first 30 comments or so, since there are a lot of stupid/irrelevant comments posted on many videos (particularly featured ones).
DoctorFist 4 years ago
Nice succinct clarification. It's possible to disagree with the sentiments expressed by President Bush, but without resorting to deceit.
flexdream 4 years ago
Funny the White House web site, doesn't mention the 'Mission Accomplished' banner. You'd think something that's gotten so much media attention would warrant some mention on the White House web site. I think its GOOD to remind the public about that, so they are reminded of this administrations complete and utter incompetence.
EmeraldView 4 years ago
First: the White House web site doesn't mention lots of things. Why should it be on there?
Second: so it is OK to lie in order to make a point? What are you smoking?
pudgenet 4 years ago
Lie? You mean like the Republican ritual? The evangelical Christian habit? The Bush administration routine? You're so played Pudge. There are really only two type of people left who vote for (or support) republicans... the ignorant or the evil. Which are you?
EmeraldView 4 years ago
Again: you are justifying lying? Mike McIntee lied, and in response, you attack other people to cover up his lies. Why?
If you respond with another ad hominem attack, I'll just block you, so don't bother. If you wish to respond substantively, you are welcome to do so.
pudgenet 4 years ago
But... but... CLINTON DID IT!!! Hey, I'm just taking a page from the Republican book. Since everying major F-up s--t for brains Bush is ultimately Bill Clinton's fault, according to pretty much ever republican mouth piece in existance, I'd like to take this opportunity to completely distance myself from personal responsibility and point squarely at Bill Clinton. P.S. I never did justify lying.
EmeraldView 4 years ago
Um. By saying you are taking a page from the GOP, you are doing precisely what you say they do: playing "tu quoque." It's a logical fallacy I did not engage in, but that EVERY ONE of your posts has done.
And whether you explicitly justified lying, you certainly have attempted to defend it by drawing attention to other things.
Want to try one more time to be reasonable?
pudgenet 4 years ago
Nope. Essentially I said regardless as to whether there was any lying done, it's still GOOD to remind folks of the banner debacle, which is highly representative of the great incompetance of the Bush adminstration and countless lies that have been told to the American people, in order to advance the ulterior motives of a small corupt group of ideologes.
EmeraldView 4 years ago
Shrug. Read the speech: the "Mission" Bush was clearly referring to was the invasion. That mission WAS accomplished, in grand fashion. Anyone who thinks the banner was incorrect isn't paying attention to what Bush actually said.
pudgenet 4 years ago
the "true" morality of progressive democratics: "it's okay to lie as long as it advances your concerns."
sort of like how progressives are "real" christians and "true" patriots.
clemtoe 4 years ago
REALLY Clemtoe? Wow, you could have fooled me! I was SURE that was the philosophy of the conservative republican and evangelical Christian. I mean after all just look at George Bush, Dick Cheney, and most of their administration, or the hordes of corupt congressional republicans, or the evangelical leaders who do little more than bear false witness against those they dislike in order to advance their theocratic agenda.
EmeraldView 4 years ago
What you call a MERELY ERROR IN INTELLIGENCE (!!!!) is causing the death of hundreds of thousands of innocent people. YOU IGNORANT. No wonder why you and millions of stupid americans re-elected a mass murderer: you are all RETARDED.
Justino111 4 years ago
I'm ignorant? I'm not the one who incorrectly stated that we went to war because we thought Iraq had WMD. It's a common myth, but it is a myth nevertheless.
pudgenet 4 years ago
Look, I won't discuss the killings of hundreds of thousands of innocent people with you because your reality is way too superficial. You don't care about freedom, you know nothing about it, all you care is money. There is something that's definitely not a myth, though: George Bush and the millions of ignorants who are supporting him are the epitome of years and years of incompetent, violent, and irresponsible politics.
Justino111 4 years ago
Your personal attacks of me are all false and based on ignorance. Indeed, I care about nothing more than I care about liberty, and I couldn't care less about money. I know a lot more about the issues than you do, so calling me ignorant or incompetent certainly isn't reasonable either.
What is true is that you are so angry that it's made you blind to facts.
pudgenet 4 years ago
Even though the mission to remove Saddam from power was successful, the aftermath following is still not successful. Also, it may have been "absolutely extradorinary" to remove the government in Iraq from power, even more so if the current government in Iraq is falling apart, and a civil war has broken out.
THEDECIDER525 4 years ago
The aftermath has so far not been successful, but this was always stated to be a long-term deal. Bush and Rumsfeld talked from the beginning about this taking years; yes, they did admit they were wrong about our levels over time, but still, we knew it would be hard and take a long time. It has not been successful so far, but it still could be.
pudgenet 4 years ago
So you dont rememeber "It is unknowable how long that conflict [the war in Iraq] will last. It could last six days, six weeks. I doubt six months." -Rumsfeld Feb 7 03'
WhyNotTruth 4 years ago
I remember it well enough to know you're taking it out of context. He was speaking specifically about the invasion, which, as you know, lasted only a couple of months. Try again!
pudgenet 4 years ago
You know that he was implying that the WAR ITSELF would be over in 6 months. but Ok Ill try again..."the insurgency is in the last throws" How about other lies? "we know where they are, (WMD) theyre in the area around Tikrit and Bahgdad..." LIES.
WhyNotTruth 4 years ago
Actually, I know precisely that he was implying that the invasion would be complete by then. You're wrong. And you misspelled "throes," and that wasn't Rumsfeld, and it wasn't a lie: it was an incorrect prediction. And we already know that the WMD stuff wasn't a lie, but was merely an error in intelligence. Keep trying! "WhyNotTruth," my ass.
pudgenet 4 years ago
Ok so we were wrong about Iraq, so we should withdraw in disgrace, right? Ohh thats right the war already started so we can't "cut and run" now!! How convenient. What a coincidence!! Anyone who still trusts this administration is a complete fool. You have an error in your intelligence. "Pudgenet" my ass.
WhyNotTruth 4 years ago
Why withdraw? I supported going into Iraq even though I didn't believe that there were WMD. We had many reasons for invading, and WMD was only one of them. Read the war resolution.
pudgenet 4 years ago
"we already know that the WMD stuff wasn't a lie, but was merely an error in intelligence." Like how the faulty "Yellow Cake from Niger" intelligence report was left in the Presidents speech "by mistake". You actually believe they just left it in on accident? This is pointless, how can you debate with someone who has such little regard for the truth? Later Pudgee
WhyNotTruth 4 years ago
You're ignorant about the yellowcake from Niger. Read the Butler report. The "16 words" were "well-founded." It should have been left out of the speech, because the CIA could not verify the British intel, but there's no indication whatsoever that the claim was actually incorrect. Try agin!
pudgenet 4 years ago
Lies about how much the war would cost the American taxpayer?? Oh thats right, you would just call it an error in judgement. How many errors in judgement must these people have before you will realize the truth. They are liars!
WhyNotTruth 4 years ago
Oh yeah, because no politicians ever underestimate how much something will cost. Not that I condone it, but the Democrats lie just as much about that as the Republicans do.
pudgenet 4 years ago
Respectfully pudgenet, you are tell me what the President was referring to, I'm telling you what he said.
In the second sentence of his speech, he said, "Major combat operations in Iraq have ended. In the Battle of Iraq, the United States and our allies have prevailed.".
There were 450 or so solders KIA on the day of that speech, there are 3,000 with many more WIA now... is that "prevailing"?
Google, "Bush insists Iraq, al Qaeda had 'relationship'"
That was a lie.
davemartin7777 4 years ago
You have to look at context to know what "Battle of Iraq" means. The VERY NEXT SENTENCE was, "And now our coalition is engaged in securing and reconstructing that country." How could we be engaged in securing the country if, as you are implying, Bush was saying the country was already secure? Clearly, he was not saying we "have prevailed" in securing Iraq, only in overthrowing Hussein. And in that, of course we had prevailed.
pudgenet 4 years ago
padgent, securing and reconstruction are mop-up operations after a battle won... as in post-WWII Japan, Germany, and Italy.
It's 3000 KIA and tens of thousands WIA later.
Sorry, your trying to convince me the sun rises in the West and sets in the East... or that Bush did not say, "In the BATTLE OF IRAQ, the United States and our allies HAVE PREVAILED."
Use any matrix, context or clarification, you're arguing against a direct quote.
davemartin7777 4 years ago
I am not arguing against a direct quote. I am saying you do not know what "Battle of Iraq" means, and that it is clear from the context. If you were correct, the next sentence would make no sense. You're wrong.
pudgenet 4 years ago
As to al Qaeda / Iraq, it's true. There is evidence there was a relationship, that they had some discussions about various things. There is no evidence of an operational relationship, and no evidence that Iraq was involved with 9/11 in any way. But there is evidence of a relationship. Saying so is not a lie.
pudgenet 4 years ago
Saddam hated Iraq and Al-Queda.
For the Sept. 11 commission conclusion of the reported Saddam/ Al Qaeda link, please google (with quotes),
"Al Qaeda-Hussein Link Is Dismissed"
"Saying so is not a lie."
It is if you are a top gov official with access to classified CIA intel that states Saddam was not supporting Al-Qaeda and say other wise.
Google, "Bush insists Iraq, al Qaeda had 'relationship'"
The 500 word limit precludes serious discussion on this.
davemartin7777 4 years ago
So? You hate me, and yet we have a relationship.
"It is (a lie) if you are a top gov official with access to classified CIA intel that states Saddam was not supporting Al-Qaeda and say other wise."
You are misunderstanding plain English. Bush never said Saddam was supporting al Qaeda, he said they had a relationship. There were meetings, there was communication. That does not mean support.
pudgenet 4 years ago
It should also be mentioned in the speech you refer to, that President Bush said, "THE BATTLE OF IRAQ IS ONE VICTORY (emphasis mine) in a war on terror that began on September 11, 2001, and still goes on."
I'm having a hard time seeing how the President saying, "The battle in Iraq is one victory..." could be spun any different.
Btw, The Bush admin suggesting that Iraq had something to do with 9/11... THAT'S a lie.
davemartin7777 4 years ago
Again, he was specifically referring to the battle *to remove Hussein from power.* That was the context of his remarks. He said later in the same speech that there was more work yet to do *in Iraq,* which seems to me to support my interpretation, and not yours.
And no, the Bush administration did not suggest Iraq had something to do with 9/11. They said that 9/11 and Iraq are both part of the same larger conflict, but not that they were directly related.
pudgenet 4 years ago
But to the minor point.
The Bush admin first said the NAVY created the banner on it's own, THAT was a lie.
The title of the clip both you and Mr. McIntee use on the official WH press release.... "President Bush Announces Major Combat Operations in Iraq Have Ended".
From "Mission Accomplished", "Bring it on," to the numerous other clusterf*cks... this President has proven himself to be a cowboy who's WAY out of his league as President.
davemartin7777 4 years ago
Yes, he said major combat operations ended. Then the situation on the ground changed, and major combat operations resumed.
I am not saying the war was handled well, or that Bush is a great President (though I'd rather have him than Kerry or Gore). I am saying "MISSION ACCOMPLISHED" referred to the mission to invade Iraq and oust Hussein, and that this mission WAS accomplished. It was perhaps the most successful mission of its kind in history. If only the rest of the war had gone as well ...
pudgenet 4 years ago
"...most successful mission..."
"If only the rest of the war.. "
Please re-read your last two sentences... that's quite the contradiction isn't it.
A competent, thoughtful admin staffed by serious adults (like Colin Powell) would not have declared "Mission Accomplished" replete with fight suit, over winning the relatively minor battle or x'ing Saddam while failing to realize the MASSIVE sectarian violence they would unleash in Iraq.
Iraq in now free to become "Little Iranistan".
davemartin7777 4 years ago
"Please re-read your last two sentences... that's quite the contradiction isn't it."
No, it's not. The mission is not the same as the war. This is what I have been saying. The mission to remove Hussein from power was accomplished, and was extremely successful.
I don't know what history books you've read, but removing the established government from power in a huge counry like Iraq in a matter of weeks is no "minor" thing. It was absolutely extraordinary.
pudgenet 4 years ago
First of all, thanks for your catch on McIntee, excellent work, you're an observant young man... maybe a career in AJ?
I was completely bullshitted I have to admit... but hey, that's the Internets, nothing is as it seems (except for my online bank statements).
Was he lying? Maybe not... but he sure is now after been proven wrong.
Props!
davemartin7777 4 years ago
Thanks. What is AJ?
pudgenet 4 years ago
AJ is the college degree name for "Administration of Justice".
davemartin7777 4 years ago
That sounds suspiciously like a lot of school work.
I got a degree in journalism, that was more than enough for me!
pudgenet 4 years ago
I noticed the "black bar" in the ENDS COMPLETELY in Aug 2003.
You don't think the White house has the brains to realize that editing ONE VIDEO in 2003 would raise questions???
But "black box" or no, the salient point clearly remains... the "Mission Accomplished" banner HAS been cropped out of the picture.
It is IMPOSSIBLE to see otherwise.
Look at the WH video... NO BANNER.
davemartin7777 4 years ago
No, you have it backwards. It is in fact NOT POSSIBLE for the banner to have been cropped out.
The original video (no black bars, full frame), linked to in a comment above, shows there was no banner in the original video, therefore none was cropped out.
Another link above shows the placement of the camera, podium, and banner makes it impossible for the banner to have been included in the video: it was way up and to the left of the camera's view.
So ... you're completely wrong. Cheers!
pudgenet 4 years ago
pudgent, I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and say Mcintee is dead wrong about the "black box" having anything to do with a cropping mechanism.
And I see that it is another camera angle... yer right.
Still you know the WH is embarrassed by that banner.
Actually, I think ANY attention brought to that banner is a good thing... BUSH was wrong in a war that will cost America one trillion dollars.
davemartin7777 4 years ago
They are embarrassed, although, if you actually listen to/read Bush's speech ... he actually said the war wasn't over, that they had a lot of work left to do. The "MISSION" referred to in "MISSION ACCOMPLISHED" was the overthrow of Hussein. And that mission WAS accomplished.
And I think the war was the right thing to do and I stand by it. Of course, I never believed Iraq had WMD, so I am a little different ...
pudgenet 4 years ago
Every form of government in every civilized country has lied to it's people. It is the only way it knows of surviving.
sherlockholmes33 4 years ago
and every "action allert" distributed by liberal blogs turns out to be a lie like this one was.
clemtoe 4 years ago
The deception is from the White House. We've been lied to for 6 six years and our soldiers are dying as a result. I guess when you're governed by liars, it rubs off a bit. I like Mike.
Dougo357 4 years ago
Riiiiight. Mike couldn't help himself! He lied, covered up the truth, tried to shut down all voices of opposition, because he could not help but follow the example set by Bush! THAT MAKES PERFECT SENSE!
pudgenet 4 years ago
Well spotted. It is a shame that some people are (hateful?) like this that they will push out false information and others will just eat it up blindly. Good job debunking. 5+ stars.
zzx2847 4 years ago
Democrat here. I agree with pudgenet. And I don't understand why McIntee would delete comments from his video.
cbreitel 4 years ago
Maybe they put that black bar there to match "Mission Accomplished" video, so there wouldn't be any suspicions. Anyway, it doesn't take much to realize that Bush lied when he said "Mission Accomplished", "there were ties between 9-11 and Al-qaeda", "Iraq was trying to buy nukes from Niger", "there were Al Qaeda in Iraq (prior to the Iraq occupation)", and so on and so forth. How many more lies do we have to hear from this idiot.
trueskool 4 years ago
Yawn.
Bush never said "Mission Accomplished." He said the battle to remove Hussein from power was won (which is true).
"there were ties between 9-11 and Al-qaeda." This is fact, of course.
"Iraq was trying to buy nukes from Niger." Bush said they were trying to buy uranium, not nukes. And this is still possibly true (read the Butler Report).
"there were Al Qaeda in Iraq (prior to the Iraq occupation)," that may be true (see Abu Hamza al-Muhajir).
pudgenet 4 years ago
Operation Enduring Quagmire: Accomplished
Wez666 4 years ago
Black bar excuse, good one. Who cares about the bar, bush's lies are more important than some lame computer hack.
wesleywes 4 years ago
Yeah, who cares if McIntee lies, as long as he lies for a good reason?
You really expect anyone to believe that?
pudgenet 4 years ago
The end result is most important here. Even if McIntee is wrong about the black bar, SOMETHING was changed to keep the "Mission Accomplished" banner out of the field of view and was almost certainly done to keep folks from being "reminded" of the Mission Accomplished BS. It just can't be denied that some manipulation was done to hide the banner....PERIOD!
slippery1wet 4 years ago
Actually, no, you're wrong. Not only do I deny it, but I have proof that you're wrong. You just WANT it to have been manipulated. There's another video on here that shows the angle of the video camera was totally incapable of showing the banner unless it was zoomed WAY out. Nice try though.
pudgenet 4 years ago
Either way Mission not Accomplished
Neanderhummus 4 years ago
bush never said "mission accomplished" either. the speech he did give went on at length about the challenges that lay ahead.
clemtoe 4 years ago
Was that before or after he announced triumph by America and its allies and celebrated with the troops?
BethesdaJack 4 years ago
shouldn't he have? the troops had defeated the ba'athist regime and its army. the actual thing about "mission accomplished" which upsets progressives is that the removal of hussein and his regime was a result opposite of what they desired. that is why they go about twitching and mumbling it to themselves the way mental patients do with the word "bugs".
clemtoe 4 years ago
No McIntee is not lying! The video has been doctored because the Banner is an embarrassment to the Bush administration. Bush lies and his groupies support him because they are too stupid to open their eyes.
Bullettube 4 years ago
There is not one shred of evidence that the video was doctored.
pudgenet 4 years ago
I don't where you got your info from, but I went to the same page Mike McIntee got his info from and found that the black bar as you say is indeed NOT on all of the videos...only the ones that have something to hide. For example there is no black bar on March 27, 2007
President Bush Participates in Demonstration of Alternative Fuel Vehicles at U.S. Postal Service Facility
fanbutton 4 years ago
People, do your own research and stop listening to these morons.
fanbutton 4 years ago
Yes, it is not on all the videos. I never said it was; some other people incorrectly said so. So what? It is on many videos, and clearly, McIntee was wrong to say that it is evidence of cropping to remove the banner, and anyone who believed him was sucked in to a lie.
pudgenet 4 years ago
All of the video clips on the Whitehouse web site are cropped. It's a blacked-out CNN banner. Morons.
plaidkitty69 5 years ago
You are too funny!
fanbutton 4 years ago
kudos, good eye, deceptive is the word - but let's not in the meantime forget the real deception.
everybodysayyeah 5 years ago
Very good =)
timg455 5 years ago
And your point it? The Man lied he lied he lied he lied
chiomze 5 years ago
Right. McIntee lied. That is the point. What part don't you get?
pudgenet 5 years ago
bla.bla.bla. this is THE WORST FUCKING PRESIDENT EVER so get over it . vote next time.
srogers39 5 years ago
And that has what to do with the fact that Mike McIntee was lying?
pudgenet 5 years ago
there are still 12,300 hits for the phrase "mission accomplished video" on google because when a progressive lie is exposed, progressives keep telling it, because progressives lie intentionally about everything without shame and with millitancy.
clemtoe 5 years ago
Hearing deceptive over and over again makes my brain hurt @_@.
Joking.
I may not have been paying very much attention but can someone explain to me why any of this matters.
Also, I heard children in the background, are they your kids? (This I will ask before reading your profile pudgenet)
UchihaAsaka 5 years ago
Mike McIntee being deceptive makes my brain hurt!
Why does it matter? Because McIntee's lies were being sent around as truth to lots of people. So I pointed out the fact that he was lying. I think truth matters, personally ...
pudgenet 5 years ago
why did this McIntee guy even make this vid? What is he trying to accomplish? THE WHITE HOUSE IS TRYING TO DECEIVE YOU! Thank you for that revelation. Why not also tell me that Christmas is in December.
freakishclover 5 years ago
This guy should be banned from youtube for blatent lying!
proob4 5 years ago
Unfortunately the main point of the other video was to show that "MISSION ACCOMPLISHED" had been taken out. Good work at completely discrediting the irrelevant part of the argument.
daviddidonato 5 years ago
Um. No. I discredited his argument that the banner had been taken out. He provided no evidence of it, and I discredited his attempt to show it, and as others in this discussion showed, there is positive evidence that it never happened (including links to the original AP video without the black bar, and another YT video that showed the angle was all wrong and it would have been impossible to show the banner). But hey, I know you'd rather just think Bush is evil, so don't let me stop you.
pudgenet 5 years ago
Liberals have the tendency to wish events and circumstances into existance. Thanx for posting this lucid explaination of yet another attempt by a rabid Bush hater to discredit our President.
nagaflas 5 years ago
How to cook humans or How to cook for humans.
J5MARLON 5 years ago
hahaha EXACTLY
everybodysayyeah 5 years ago
Funny I don't see any black bars for the scrolls on CNN videos. If you look at Fox you don't see them either. The scrolls play OVER the scene. They dont' cut out a 3 of the image. It would look pretty damning if ONLY that one video in the entire collection of WHs videos had that 'black bar' now wouldn't it?
owlbear1 5 years ago
Wow. The Iraq war is still a great failure and stain on our nation. You go ahead and whine about the black bar all you want, but your great talents would be better spent fighting in this great war that you believe is such a noble cause.
knghtsni 5 years ago
Yawn.
pudgenet 5 years ago
We have always been at war against Oceania!
betterdays105 5 years ago
Wow that Mike McIntee has been exposed as a pathetic liar.
Thanks for this.
fryfryfry 5 years ago
Yeah, Mike blew this one.
That's 38,496 fewer mistakes than Bush has made.
And Mike's mistake hasn't killed more than 50,000 people.
manofsteel1029 5 years ago
Yawn.
pudgenet 5 years ago
Yeah dude. Yawn. Bush hasn't been blown by an intern yet. Nothing to see here. . .
knghtsni 5 years ago
Looks like an undertandable error, if it is an error, and of no consequence. The war and the President are the worst military and diplomatic disaster in the history of the US. Even Poppy has called in his Baker-led team to fix it. Let's concentrate on getting the nation back on track and skip this childish stuff.
palm44 5 years ago
Whatever. The dude accused the White House of doing something it didn't do. I proved he was wrong. He proceeded to delete my comments to cover up his error, turning the error (and it is an error, beyond all reasonable doubt) -- if indeed it was unintentional -- into a lie.
If you think it is too childish to care about, that's your business. But he lied, and I think it's worth pointing out when people are lying, even if you don't.
pudgenet 5 years ago
I believe you would have to prove he is lying. He can be misinformed.
Mind you deleting comments is a bit much. I would say more likely he got egg on his face and didn't want to be caught out.
Ironically this is how Bush distracted people from his suspect war record. Something gets released that shows a conspiracy, it is shot down and everyone forgets about the whole "Mission Accomplished" screw up. It's PYSOPS 101 tbh.
hobbesie 5 years ago