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From: godfree4all
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  • It's a very good point that in the US there is a fanaticism simply not found in England, or most of Europe, Canada or the rest of the First World for that matter. This Christian zealotry only really sprang up in the early 20th Century in the US, & was reinforced, or in fact legitimized in the '50s as a device of McCarthyist propaganda - The 'reds under the bed' paranoia which, while it was destroyed intellectually, still remains very much in the psyche of the uneducated elements of US citizenry.

  • Atheism, Douglas AND Django Reinhardt?

    Instant favorite!

  • Why does it have to get cut short? :( I wish I could listen to the rest.

  • @themeaningoflif Most if not all of this is in the book "the salmon of doubt" by douglas adams. Read it :)

  • candlejack ended the interview

  • The fairies at the bottom are called earthworms.

  • i love how every one thinks ever Christian is a complete dunderhead. "You believe in god therefor you CAN'T believe in ANYTHING other god". i am a christian, i believe in evolution, in science, gay rights, and so on. can we just except peoples believes and move on instead of being assholes to everyone? oh, no, thats to easy, to rational, we need to hate someone, right?

  • @ApathyKillsAll

    No, I don't think so. If religion stayed where it belongs, in it's believer's heads and not in the public and political sphere, then I don't think atheists would be so defensive, or attacking. But the reality is that people are using the name of god as a justification to hold their beliefs above science, to pass laws that affect individual liberties, when they don't belong in the same realm.

  • @Mr88playmaker Ask those American citizens with Japanese ancestry how those unalienable, god given rights and liberties worked out for them in the 40's when their property was seized by the government including businesses and farmland, and they were shoved into internment camps. A right is not a right if it can be taken away. You have no rights.

  • "I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance any day"

  • So as God is all, and so are we of God and in God, and so is God within us all, and so are we equal in God, and so as God is love, and so are we equal in love, but unequal in hate, and so as love equals knowledge and hate equals ignorance, our will for good or for evil is free, yet our will for good is blessed. I hold these truths to be self evident.

  • @Mr88playmaker did you know thomas jefferson wrote that ....a man, does that make him your god!

  • @Mr88playmaker

    "In America, there exists not one single legal document that states or suggests that your rights and liberties are granted by men"

    I quote your own historical documents..

    "we hold these truths to be self evident "

    I'm pretty sure that those "truths" are at least the beginnings of your own country's right to governance without religious interference

    The "we" referred to in the quote were MEN, some of them Atheists

    Your constitution guarantees every citizen freedom FROM religion

  • Douglas Adams is the man.

  • He's making a chalice and Bade in the picture.

  • yasha swag

  • Forty Two

  • @Darkaero199 :FOURTY TWO !!!??

  • @Mr88playmaker Atheism does NOT equate with communism, any more than public health care is communistic.

    Democratic freedom is not exclusive to, or reliant upon, belief in the judeo-christian deity.

    Rights are granted by the government, under instruction from the electorate, NOT from your invisible sky-daddy.

  • @Mr88playmaker I can play that game too.

    There are three models of Government competing for world domination:

    (1) Secularism: Where politics and philosophers debate laws and the right of people.

    (2) Sharia Law: where the Qu'ron governs

  • the funniest writer ever! that includes you too terry pratchett

    ,great stuff inspired thinking. dont think for a second that "believers" have the monopoly on beauty and truth, it belongs to you too (without the baggage) we all agree that its a good idea to treat others as we ourselves would like to be treated, not a new idea but a good one, i agree, and im antitheist

  • something to support it, and it is also respected more in schools than Christianity. On the other had religion should not be oppressed on anyone no matter which one it is. Religion like Atheism is a choice we choice to believe it or not.

  • Absolutely you, I, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Yes religion has power over society and in some cases I do believe religion does not belong such as the government ruling a church and the religion it represents. With oppression I agree and disagree with that. This is because in most of the public schools i have seen have only oppressed Christianity while Judaism and Muslim where respected as legitimate beliefs. I believe Atheism is a belief because like anything you need to believe

  • @xEXABYTEx

    Atheism is a LACK of belief.

  • @paspax APPARENTLY NOT, SCHMUCK.  ADAMS RIGHT HERE SAID HE BELIEVES THERE IS NO GOD. Poor sap... he just didn't get it. Writing a successful series of books doesn't make you smart...

  • @MazeleyFanClub

    Your Point?

  • Douglas Adams is great!

  • Good show Douglas!

  • Love the Django Reinhardt and Stephen Grappelli in the background.

  • I don't think you kinow what Satanism or atheism are otherwise you wouldn't make such a foolish mistake and confuse the two. You're obviously just being lazy and saying that anything that isn't Christianity is Satanism. Try using your intelligence and some critical thinking, although it seems you've already sacrificed those to your religion :(

  • @opulase1 never it has been confirm

  • I don't much see the point in that. With so many interpretations of the Bible, different denominations and belief systems, explaining what a single type of Christianity 'really is' would be sooner challenged by a fellow Christian of a different church then an atheist. Besides, Christianity isn't really the 'other side' of the debate as Atheists aren't necessarily anti-religion, they just don't believe that any gods or deities exist -- and the Christian 'God' is no more special then Ra.

  • wow, his story of becoming an atheist is just like mine. I just started applying the same type of logic to religion that i do to everything else, and smoothly and rapidly, i became an atheist

  • I think it's a fairly common story among atheists, I personally found it surprising at the age of 8 that those people at church really believed what was being said.

  • That's...that Simon Jones.

    Wow.

    He's got such a theatrical voice. The fact that this man became the ever-so-average Arthur Dent so easily and convincingly is, quite frankly, amazing.

  • It was Simon Jones and that is a massive wow...

    But come on... how much more of a wow would it have been if it had been PETER Jones? Wouldn't that be ace? The BOOK reading the author?

    (And yes, I know Peter's dead....!)

  • douglas was such a intelligant man. and a talanted writer. a loss to all of us. and I agree to every word he says here

  • where do you think he GOT his talent from?

  • He´s got his talent from:

    - a VERY good Education

    - a broadminded View of Things

    - the Ability to look behind the Views that were introducted to you by your Parents etc. - a very good sense of Proportion !!!

    ...and NOT (at all) from some sort of GOD !

  • stuff like talent also stems from exposure. If he's exposed to comedy and quality writing for a young age he'll be good or at least attracted to it. (And he was a fan of the Pythons, I believe)

  • He WAS a Python; i.e. a contributing writer, although not an acting member.

  • Where he got his talent from?... well... from God, Allah, Shiva, Brahma, The Great Ju-Ju Up The Mountain....blahblah... shall I continue?

  • I think you'll find his talent arose because he agreed with me.

  • I don't fully understand your comment (notice english is not my native language), are you sure this reply is for me? my reply was for the user mjZstargirl who said: "where do you think he got his talent from?"... that sounds pretty close to "divine invisible being coming soon to your screen to explay that"...

  • did he say he agrees with you?

  • Whenever I read a debate like this I always feel pity for those religious people, because by definition they haven't thought these things through as much as the people they argue with.

  • @fredatled Actually many religious people do think about this thoroughly but sadly are not taken seriously. It is not sad because they aren't taken seriously but because those religious people that easily hold the title RELIGIOUS NUTCASE are the ones that are taken seriously. Many prejudice scientists chose to make the NUTCASES the primary example of all whom are religious in any shape or form. In the end every man is entitled to his beliefs. I believe in God, you see otherwise that's ure right.

  • @xEXABYTEx - Sure, I can appreciate the frustration in the way that atheist demonize the religious, by highlighting the nutcases. But that stems from a frustration with the ridiculous reach and power that religion has over society. I also believe people are entitled to their own opinion and beliefs, but when everything from our school systems, to government, to the media is affected with a religious deference, it has gone beyond personal opinion and is a form of oppression.

  • @fredatled Deluded arrogance equals ignorance, in this case, of profound religious thought.

  • @winehousedrunk

    A delusion is a unsubstantiated belief. The very definition of religion. Oh wait, I just read your last comment. Probably no point arguing with someone who says things like "I hold these truths to be self evident." It's a bit like arguing with a cardboard box.

  • @fredatled Apparently, I think outside your rational box, and I do not plan to regress to a state where I can fit my mind into one. Have one on me; I discarded it when I was 12.

  • @winehousedrunk I exaggerated: it must've been around when I was 16 or so, but I can't remember exactly, as it was so long ago.

  • @winehousedrunk

    Apologies for the rudeness. It was completely unjustified and unnecessary. It's fine if you want to think outside the rational box. It is a human tradition going back millions of years, providing comfort and solace in what is a very scary world. It may not be based in any truth at all, but people get into it.

    But I have to ask. Do you believe in Zeus and Amun? If not, why not?

  • @fredatled Do you believe in your version of the truth? Is yours better than mine? Have you seen yours? How can you know that your perception of what is true or untrue is of the highest order? How can you prove that mine is wrong as a consequence of it being of a lower, or even, the lowest order? You cannot, and as a consequence, your faith in exclusively rationally begotten evidence, is a leap of unsubstantiated faith that leaves you short of spanning the abyss of ignorance and arrogance.

  • @winehousedrunk

    You haven't answered my question. Do you believe in Zeus and Amun? What makes the ancient Greeks/Egyptians version of God untrue? Or their truth of a "lower order" as you put it? How can you be so arrogant as to dismiss those infinitely older versions of religion?

  • @fredatled Clearly they have lost their towels.

  • "isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?"

    great quote.

  • @nate4021 agreed, but there's nothing wrong with imagining fairies. As amazing as evolution is, I can't read science all day. The imaginative capability of the human mind is awe inspiring. It's just when people start to believe in those fairies :)

    Looking at the pope the other day in his funny hat, he reminded me of all those people that dressed like Gandalf at the last Lord of The Rings premiere.

  • @fredatled about the only issue I have with dawkins and Adams is that the certainty of the non existence of god potentially closes down a little part of the imagination which i think is rather beautiful.

    Alas one of the problems with religion that I have is that it seems to me to close down a large part of the intellect, a large part of the imagination and then it follows it all up by putting them onto a bonfire and burning them to death.

    Sigh! I loved your insights...

  • @TheRobotarchie I agree, any closing down of imagination is definitely a bad thing. I am not sure Adams could be accused of that however, his writing can attest the depth of his imagination. On that topic, I have to say again I don't really like that fairies quote. I think it's great to imagine fairies, as long as we don't start to believe they exist.

  • @fredatled I agree about adams he had a wonderful sense of play and god not existing (or existing in the minds of the religious) didn't hamper it one jot...

  • @TheRobotarchie Humanity would greatly benefit if the concept of a perpetual tribal tyrant who controlled all matter and mind was erased from our collective memory.

  • @Hottides A quote i once read attributed to some french anarchist or artist (i forget which), it talked abut how we all must "kill our internal policeman", religion is to my mind, religion is the projection of that internal policeman, so erasing it from teh collective memory won't really help... :-(

  • Religion seems to me a projection of the fear that comes from knowing that the universe is very very very vast and we are very very very insignificent and alone. I prefer Jungs "as far as i can see the sole reason for existence is to kindle a light in the darkness of being". :-)

  • @nate4021 But then the garden dies with the coming of the Autumn. The leaves die in their greatest beauty. The fairies live on till the next Spring and if people labor again the beauty is again. But in my case the nutrients of the soil where exhausted and the garden kept getting less beautiful. Now it is just a lawn which my pets trample at will. As I drink my ale I wonder if the fairies ever really existed! So the next step would be a scientific one if I choose to have the garden back.  Thanks

  • if theres a god, than i would hope hes got more inportant shit on his mind than my as

  • the opposite of hell is obviously heaven. meaning christians avoid going to hell to get to heaven. which is absolutely not true. you grew up with a wrong view on christianity because christians do good works because the world needs help, not because God TELLS us to.

    and we don't need to go into evolution because we all known anyone who believes in it is a lunatic. there is no proof to this 'theory' funny how monkeys aren't evolving now, i'd say 400million years is enough huh?

  • "funny how monkeys aren't evolving now" I cant stop laughing that you think thats a good argument lol ok ok not to be mean, but have u ever read even a paragraph on evolution? if you actually knew anything about it, you should terribly embarrassed by what you said. lol

    as for 400 millions years is enough...but don't forget the earth is only 2000 years old right? xD

  • The accepted christian belief is 4000 years...

    Evolution.. can you tell me when it ends? And personally, I've never understood how anything could live through the temperatures of the big bang. It's a good theory, much more plausible than religion... however, scientists are always wrong... e.g. the world isn't flat. In 200 years will we be saying... what were we thinking? There will always be a higher power, and there will always be attempts at explaining it. Unfortunately... it's higher.

  • That is god-of-the-gaps theology. Ultimately, it is a dead end.

  • Where did You get the idea that monkeys, (or humans for that matter) doesn't evolve???

    And Ok You can call it a theory, but the way You use it strongly suggest that You don't understand what the term entails. It is a theory, but it is a SCIENTIFIC THEORY, the best fitting, non disproved theory (if You understand the distinction).....Just like Gravity...But maybe You don't believe in thet stupid "theory" either...Please read up on the subject before You embarrass Yourself further...

  • You don't know, you believe.

    There is substantially, and crushingly more proof to the validity of Darwinian natural selection than the claims of religiousity.

    In fact, you shouldn't be looking for proof if you are religious. The very tenets of religion state tht it is a virtue to believe DESPITE evidence.

    As for deriving from monkeys, I'd rather have been an ape, than dust.

  • Christ is either a messiah or a mad man

    -C.S. Lewis

    I go with Mad man.

  • Your soul.

  • Really? Then at what point in embyonic development does the soul enter the human body?

  • First off: It's embryonic not embyonic.

    Second: You are obviously a person who needs a scientific explanation and reason for everything, which i don't.

    You don't believe you have a soul, sucks for you. (:

  • Not really.

    I'm happier now than when I was a Christian.

  • Pascal's wager is not your wager, source it next time. Any god who values blind faith over reason and deduction is not a god I would want to worship anyway.

    If there is no god, how many years of your life have you wasted in church? attending functions you otherwise wouldn't have? praying? How much money might you have wasted on paying for unnecessary religious ceremonies? How many opportunities would you have missed because you were convinced god told you not to?

  • I don't have to source anything!! My life is not wasted, unlike YOU and the majority of the world who doesn't believe there's a God, are selfish and believe you are so self-righteous. You believe in putting yourself first and you live a life that is wasted NOT me.

  • You will waste your only life living in ignorance of the magnificence of reality.

  • listen to that intview again. I dont think you got it the first time.

  • I think you didn't get it.

  • They call that "pascals wager" if you didn't know, and I can only ask you, exactly WHICH god should I belive in?

  • True. Athiesm can do nothing to assuage your guilt or allivate your fears of death, sorry. You did what you did and you die when you die, no matter how you feel about it, how inconvinient it may be. Just because your worldview NEEDS something to be true does not make it so.

  • In addition, this is an argument of infinite regress. If hyper-evolved aliens behave like gods it still doesn't solve the problem of who (if anyone) created the aliens, and all the matter/energy in the universe, in the first place. Accordingly a resolution between atheism and theism is impossible as the 'a' rather suggests.

  • On the topic below and all like it: why is it so hard to harmonize religion and atheism, to see each as defining the other? Suppose science continues to advance, perhaps we can engineer ("create") whole galaxies, and develop little thought chips in our brains so infinitesimal that we become almost a singular collective consciousness and look over such a universe of life. If we could, then suppose there exists such a force guiding us now. Wouldn't that be god by definition? Aren't both true?

  • The way the concept of God is used by religions precludes other alien species being one (we would not be gods to our ancestors just because we know more and can reason better than they did a million years ago). The point of this interview is to reinforce the basic scientific principles.

    Religious ideas are stupid and inconsistent, while modern scientific understanding of the world is what drives the modern human world. Without inoculation you might have died of infant diseases, etc.

  • we can't create matter.

  • this guy is one of the smartest men alive

  • Except by the fact he is not alive anymore.

  • omg hes not!, excuse my ignorance but i just got really really sad......ok im over it now but he was very smart

  • haha "ok im over it now"

  • athiest vs christianity

    christians made america atheist made communist Russia.

    Chistians in America are taught to toloerate other beliefs and to use thier life, love, and kindness to bring other to Christianity.

    Communist Russia on the other hand does not tolerate any religion. saying that "God" is a dangerous belief that corrupts the human mind. and what if you dont agree and wish 2 b a christian? no biggy, just spend the next few years in jail being horribly beaten and brainwashed.

  • lol. Remember, christians murdered indians. Remember this when you claim, that christians "made" america. Yes, they made IN BLOOD. Many communists was christians also. Jeez, do you read books or only listen to creationists' propaganda ?

  • this might be hard to belive but back in the day some people used religion as a tool to get loyalty and power. some poeple just pretended to be of some religion just to have the benifits. and those Spainish were catholics not christians.

  • 1) Catholics are Christians

    2)Not all atheists are communists

    3) the majority of atheists I know are intelligent, liberal, tolerant, loving and incredibly moral beings.

    4)Christianity has been behind lots of nasty things

    5)Although atheists also do nasty things they don't do nasty things in the name of atheism

    6)comparing all atheists to those who established communist Russia shows intolerance and ignorance.

    7)It was not only the Spanish that killed Native Americans

    8)Read more

  • lol and what is a catholic ? Just a CHRISTIAN SECT, idiot. LEARN YOUR RELIGION. Christianity has more than 30 000 sects, and catholicism is one of them. So again, christian murdered indians. Very sad, that you deny facts.

  • so then i counter argue your arguement then you counter argue mine ect...and what do we get? no one changes their viewpiont but just gets mad at the other guy. so i am going to stop this lame cybernetic arguement and drop the arguement. have a nice day and God bless...oh wait....i mean random chances of the universe that make up stuff bless...just trying to be politically correct :)

  • What argument? You didn't present an argument you simply rather ignorantly stated that Catholics aren't Christians and being an atheist is akin to being a founder of communist Russia. You stated two things which are empirically incorrect. You cannot divert this by trying to pass off our refutations of your argument as political correctness. You are bowing out of this discussion because you cannot possibly come back from what we have said. You are wrong. I hope this makes U review ur beliefs.

  • if you didnt already get it i didnt want to have a 5 way conversation across cyberspace. Though as i try to DROP this conversation i just ask one thing: why do athiest care WTF anyone else thinks. we (according to athiest) believe the most stupidest things...so why do you guys care? why is there an american athiest group? becoz in the end it doesnt even matter.

    PS: i renounce my faith.

    jk lol rofl

  • Why don't you religious nuts get your crap out of education and politics, then perhaps the secular democratic community will stop reminding the world that religion stands for authoritarian theocracy which defines those who do not agree as unworthy and to be killed. Religion is the worst and most hateful mindset humanity has, It is time that it was exposed for the trash and lies it is. It is BS, the old testament bible didn't even happen, religion is abuse which should be stamped out.

  • dude ur comment made me sad. I just guessing but you sound like your an athiest not because you really belive in athiesm but because religion has somehow hurt you and you HATE religion. I am sorry if ppl have done things with religion that have hurt you. but just like everything else some ppl use religion to gain advantage over ppl (imagine that.)

    I'll pray for you. and i hope you....do well.

  • troyontime, I reread my comment, It is indeed very strongly worded, this no doubt, prompted your response. Let me explain less clumsily; Consider how you would feel if Islam, or some other faith which you strongly disagreed with was taught to your kids, or if it was the basis for laws and your rights as a human being. Secularism is freedom of expression for everybody on the basis of democratically agreed law.

    challenge that and you inspire religious rage.

    Keep religion out of ed and politics

  • Archaeology finds that in Palestine, the ancient people there were Canaanite, Judea and Israel were polytheistic until the rise of Judea in around 700BC. they are all one people. the only reason they are fighting is religion. AKA cultural pride based on rubbish.. it didn't even happen.

    We do not want religious wars in politics.

    Religion has holidays and weekends to brainwash kids, give them a break during the week in their schools. so that they are actually taught facts about stuff.

  • All i know is that if i was an athiest i wouldnt give a darn about what anybody said or did.

    I was just asking the question to understand why athiest care.

    As 4 christians you should tolerate them bcos think of it this way. if u believed in Heaven and Hell and u blieved that the athiest sitting across from u was going to Hell, how much would u have to H8 them to just pass them by and not share wat u believe with them.

    peace bro and God bless.

  • Peace, may you have a sense of the indivisible whole of which every religion and philosophy is only an aspect.

  • Atheists do not form a homogeneous community. So I will tell you why I care, there are two reasons. Firstly religion is being used in schools to undermine scientific principles. Intelligent design is not science and should not be taught as science.Secondly I care about what other people think when they publish those thoughts for other people to see.I believe that we can assemble some sort of truth through debate.If individuals do not wish to participate they can keep their opinions to themselves

  • I am just wondering (and i could be just restating the question) but you have no reason to care. think about it this way. If christains are wrong no biggy, we all just end up in limbo when we die. if athiest are wrong then they end up in a very nasty place. Christains are taught to care and to help others. were as athiest its more like you and me aint nothing but mammels so w/e. I would highly recommend a film called "expelled" it might help you see both sides :)

    have a nice day.

  • Thank you I will see if I can watch the film. With regards to your first point for me it is more important for me to find some truth because when I die I die. So it matters that I find something out now. I believe that this is best done through debate. For the second point everyone I know has been taught to care for and help others. Not just Christians but atheists et. al. the fact that we are only mammals enhances the mystery of life for me and causes me to care deeply about humanity as a whole

  • glad 2 b of help

  • troyontime, I notice that you mention the film 'Expelled', May I urge you to consider looking into the controversy surrounding the movie from the other side too. The person involved was a cheat who failed to submit his work for review and used his position to publish an article which he knew would not have passed. it was opinion and belonged in letters or in discussion papers, not a scientific journal.

    If cheating is how someone makes claims, then it is not something you should support.

  • Comment removed

  • Consider also that 70% of scientists profess some kind of religious faith. Even those who have a sense of a personal God are not suggesting that evolution is false. ID is a cultural phenomena inspired by 2 small groups, American and Islamic fundamentalists. The basis for their ideas is biblical text and not experiment or testing. ID was ruled to be religion in the Dover trial, No scientists were forthcoming to defend it. Expelled makes wrong assertions.

  • have u cn the film?

  • Comment removed

  • I have not seen the film, but I have followed this closely in publications which I read, they present a fair discussions of the issues raised.

    I urge you to look at the rather lengthy list of lectures from Stanford University on my channel. You will see there a very through discussion of evolution and hear the voice of detractors in context, within an academic environment.

    Expelled asserts that a conspiracy exists against ID, it does not

    It is fringe ideas, there is no controversy

    learn biology

  • how bout this, u watch expelled and i'll watch ur stuff. OK?

    also look @ my earlier comments. notice how i am stating an opinion that is not the mainstream thought and i am getting thumbs down. I guess i shouldnt be surprised. but anyway, i'll watch ur channel if u watch expelled. savey?

    peace.

  • I would not watch a film about holocaust denial to learn about the 1940s, nor am I going to watch someone who is a seriously stupid and nasty man tell me about a subject which I have studied for years. Ben Stein is not putting a fair argument, he is a liar and also a cheat who is spinning an argument to recruit into cults. It has nothing whatsoever to do with what is happening in science. Get educated and stop putting down things you have never bothered to study yourself.

  • ID does not put an alternative, it is only about rubbishing what we have already discovered for the sole benefit of getting converts.

     Science does not find what religion would like it to, live with it - realize that literal biblical interpretations are wrong. Science does not find ID it finds common ancestry in DNA, in fossils, in chromosomes, in mtDNA, in distribution of genes in a population, in the test tube and in nature. there is no evidence for ID. it is religion.

  • What is the evidence for intelligent design?

  • Explain the many upright big brained ape fossils in Africa, explain mtDNA differences in Neanderthal man, explain why we look similar to Neanderthal if it is not through common ancestry, explain why fossils are consistent with gradual change over evolutionary time, explain why we do not find life out of phase with the tree of life ever.. explain the many many species for which we now have complete fossil records etc there is simply no controversy except in religious mindset, supported by nada.

  • i find it annoying that ppl put God into this box of "Oh i cant l do this that and other thing because thousands of years l8er someones going to look at it and say EVOLUTION!" God does w/e he wants to!

    Marscubed. i think that tlking about E vs C is pointless because we arent going to change eachothers opinions. but heres a question i would like u to answer and it doesnt have to do with E vs C (i think) "where do we go when we die?"

    I would like a personal answer, something more than nowher

  • A better question is, Did I do well by those whom I left behind? I think the answer is the same in either case.

  • "If christains are wrong no biggy, we all just end up in limbo when we die. if athiest are wrong then they end up in a very nasty place." -- What if atheists and Christians are wrong? If one of the plethora of other deities worshiped in the world, or the thousands formerly worshiped by various groups throughout history, is correct? Then everyone still ends up in a nasty place. Pascal's Wager, the logic you used there, doesn't work because Christianity is not the only religion with a Hell.

  • Acutally communists made communist Russia. Having gone to a parochial school for 9 years I can attest that Christians are not taught to be all that tolerant (leastwise, they are told about tolerance, but then are taught beliefs that I intolerant).