The Wit of Dr. Craig - Part 13 "The Geography and Time of an Abortion of a Baby"

[machinedean100]

Aw man how do you like how they always do the " Nobody's claiming that". Ug! If nobody's was claiming it we wouldn't be discussing it now would we. Sigh, I am taking a break from talking to atheist's. Before I burst a blood vessel in my head.

[ROIDZ100]

@HmongLauj92 ......? are you seriously standing by that pathetic so called argument, LOL its not even an argument.....A SEED DOESNT MATURE INTO AN APPLE INSIDE OF THE APPLE u tool..... at the moment of inception life is conceived. The egg IS alive and WILL mature into a HUMAN BEING, stopping that process by ripping it out is killing and ending that potential humans life....who the fuk compares the seed of an apple to a human life....

[BibleIsland]

They ARE claiming that if it is "unborn" the mother has the RIGHT to choose DEATH for the baby... DESPITE the fact that if it was born prematurely at that moment, it would live. It's a human, it's life and it's absolutely precious. Anyone, Christian, atheist or agnostic should be able to see that. It's a human right's issue, not a religious one.

[mehico33]

@BibleIsland It is a matter of choice, the only factors that need to be considered are "How much suffering will result from the childs birth vs how much suffering will result from aborting said child". More often than not abortion is not neccessary, more often than not it is the result of carelessness and is unjust. However it can be justified in some cases (e.g stem cell research).

The problem with the religious stance is that it lays a blanket ruling, which causes suffering.

[Sickopath333]

@mehico33 Suffering is not necessarily a deciding factor on what is or is not moral. For example, if a black woman and a white man had a child, it would be bi-racial, with white skin pigment being recessive; so maybe a light brown skin tone. That child, being born and raised in a horribly racist community could endure much suffering, and indeed cause great grief to the community having to put up with such shameless intermixing in their neighborhood. Would this meet the criteria of suffering?

[mehico33]

@Sickopath333 How on earth would that not meet the criteria of suffering? Are you trying to say that the child may suffer but that his suffering is not objectively wrong? Im not sure I get you.

I make decisions mathematically, "will ... cause more harm vs good", the only issue is measuring said "good/bad"/"suffering/joy"

[Sickopath333]

@mehico33 I'm not at all disagreeing that the child having to suffer with that is wrong, what I should have been more clear to ask is, does that meet your conditions on suffering to determine whether or not the child should be aborted? The child will suffer, arguably more from being born than not, therefore it should be aborted to prevent said suffering?

That's nice theoretically, but there are no intrinsic values/measurements on pain or suffering, or even joy, so it's just guesswork.

[mehico33]

@Sickopath333 Intrinsic as in objective/devine? We experience reality subjectively so why even seek such authority, we are the only authority (from an atheistic standpoint), it may be "guesswork" but its a choice the mother/father must make, more often than not there is no good reason to abort (so law comes into it), I believe that. Im just saying that there are times that it is the best option, and that blanket rulings are ridiculous for that reason.

[Sickopath333]

@mehico33 Objective would be one way to word it I suppose, yes. There's no scientific way to measure pain or pleasure; psychological tests will have self-reports, but those greatly depend upon the person's current feelings, and of course imposes that they were born first and matured enough to have a view on it (can't ask the aborted baby about circumstances that may have occured). I would say abortion should be illegal, but in very rare circumstances, it should be considered sort of like euth.

[atbigdog24002]

What debate is this from?

[MeBeMat]

Nobody, literally nobody, has ever made the claim that because a foetus is located in the woman's uterus, it therefore isn't a living being. Good to see the WLC fans are so discerning in their applauses that they'll clap a rebuttal to an argument that nobody's making.

[drcraigvideos]

@MeBeMat Listen to his debate and you'll see the claim was made.

[oodlesofosz]

@MeBeMat Like the guy who owns this channel said, listen to the debate and you'll see the claim was made. Good to see the usual atheist taking yet more things out of context without fully viewing the entire picture.

[MeBeMat]

@oodlesofosz And it's good to see the usual moron making sweeping generalisations, it warms my cockles to think of such predictability.

[drcraigvideos]

@MeBeMat It's not our fault you can't listen to a video. It's only 34 seconds long. Your attention span isn't shorter than that, is it?

[oodlesofosz]

@MeBeMat Well if my "generalisation" was wrong you are either pretending you haven't heard the entire debate or just a liar.

[oopscanada]

Just excellent!

[Zellonium]

I do agree that an 8 month old fetus should not be aborted (unless it's dying/dead) and that abortions should be avoided. Unfortunately most abortions aren't that simple, and most aren't obviously right or wrong when it comes down to disregarding religious disposition. But any decision made on any laws governing abortions needs to apply equally to all people based on the evidence which exists in reality. And no Craig, not all forms of abortion are homicide - most are clearly not.

[KittenButter]

Bad argument. It's not a matter of geography.

[drcraigvideos]

@KittenButter Stupid thinking. The baby is located in the womb. That's not geography? Try thinking for a change.

[WVJimbo]

@drcraigvideos I think what KittenButter meant was that geography and the location of something/someone are not necessarily the same thing. Geography is the study of Earth and it's land. The uterus is a part of the female body, not the Earth.

[HaShim383]

@drcraigvideos man you know how to reem people don't you hahaha you remind me of myself....a spit fire hahaha

[theDuctapeUnion]

@drcraigvideos

geography |jēˈägrəfē|

noun

the study of the physical features of the earth and its atmosphere, and of human activity as it affects and is affected by these, including the distribution of populations and resources, land use, and industries.

Any questions?

[FamousDave2186]

@theDuctapeUnion can also mean location. you never heard someone say geographicly located before? I've heard it quite a few times from other people besides Dr.William Lane Craig. Any questions?

[theDuctapeUnion]

@FamousDave2186

I fear I may have misrepresented my personal views by my earlier comment. I am pro-life. In the instance of rape the child can be given up for adoption. If in early term the developing fetus shows genetic defects or is a threat to the life of the mother I am willing to consider aborting. I am also pro-capital punishment and a staunch atheist. Dr. Craig used the word geography incorrectly for effect. Not a sin. But not sound logic.

[FamousDave2186]

@theDuctapeUnion I'll make myself clear on this, I didn't put that response for a debate on abortion I put the comment up to show you that people do say it the way Dr. Craig (and thanks by the way for showing respect) says geographically. Here's an example: "they are geographically closer to the center of town" Doesn't that mean the same as saying "we are located closer to the center of town." So I don't see an error here. That's all I was implying.

[theDuctapeUnion]

@FamousDave

In what way do the examples you give of "geography's" use in a sentence match WLC's?

For your argument to hold water regarding the correct usage of "geography" you must use it in a sentence inconsistant with it's dictionary definition.

 geography |jēˈägrəfē|

noun

the study of the physical features of the earth and its atmosphere, and of human activity as it affects and is affected by these, including the distribution of populations and resources, land use, and industries.

[FamousDave2186]

@theDuctapeUnion I just did. Do you disagree with my sentence I gave you because you didn't give any response to it. Second Here's how he states it "geographlically located inside the uterus." even the definiton distribution of populations, how are we born? By leaving the birth canal. That fits with the defintion. Unless you can defined distribution as something else you don't have a case.

[theDuctapeUnion]

@FamousDave2186

I can't believe I'm here again arguing nothing with nobody.

I have become very well acquainted with the religious and their intellectual dishonesty.

Twist the word to mean what ever it is you want. Fine. I don't care.

The sort of people who are duped by this brand of sophistry I don't associate with any way; Including it's peddlers. That's you. Aloha from the north shore of Kauai. Te he heh eh eh  he!

[FamousDave2186]

@theDuctapeUnion and I can't believe you restort to insults. I shouldn't be but you gave me no reason to think you would, so I had hopes you wouldn't restort to it. I guess I was wrong. If you're left with nothing but insults it shows you've lost the debate. Goodbye.

[theDuctapeUnion]

@FamousDave2186

Did you mean to say resort or retort.

Demonstrates your knowledge of the English language doesn't it?

BTW. Thanks for illustrating my point so effortlessly.

Te he he heh eh eh ALOHA!

[FamousDave2186]

@theDuctapeUnion and thank you for demonstrating my point. When you're left with insults you lose the debate. Thanks again.

[theDuctapeUnion]

@FamousDave2186

Did you even bother to watch the video?

If you think Dr. Craig's use of the word geography was consistant with it's definition,

then this video is mislabeled and should be flagged for spam for misleading text. For if he were simply using geography in it's every day sense he couldn't be accused of being witty now could he?

Resort? Retort?

[FamousDave2186]

@theDuctapeUnion yes I watched the video, how do you think I got the quote from him? I showed you exactly how it fits even used the definition that you gave and put it perfectly. You then RESORTED (happy, can't tell what the word I was saying, people make spelling mistakes all the time on a computer grammer nazi) to insults which clearly shows you couldn't argue the point and your last comment is just you saying no its not but not arguing why, just saying the exact same thing. I'm done with you

[theDuctapeUnion]

@FamousDave2186

So which is it? You haven't addressed my query. If I have to spell it out for you I will.

Is Dr. Craig using "geographically located" correctly as you claim or is he being witty as the title of this video suggests. Last chance. You can't have it both ways but I guess you already know that. A little intellectual integrity wouldn't kill you either.

[theDuctapeUnion]

@FamousDave2186

Maybe you'd like to restart?

[theDuctapeUnion]

@FamousDave

distribution |ˌdistrəˈbyoō sh ən| (abbr.: distr.)

noun

the action of sharing something out among a number of recipients

• the way in which something is shared out among a group or spread over an area

• the action or process of supplying goods to stores and other businesses that sell to consumers

• Bridge the different number of cards of each suit in a player's hand

Now, I know damned well you have access to Wikipedia.

Do not persist in asking me to define words for you. O.K.?

[seantaylor1334]

@KittenButter Really? You cannot be serious. If the baby is located outside of the womb; womb and located being the key words here; that is geography. I agree with drcraigvideos, try thinking things through a bit more.

[henhicktaimon]

@KittenButter I'm pretty sure it's a bad argument because most abortions don't take place at 8 months, not over whether or not it's a matter of geography.

[ebeatworld]

@KittenButter It's not a matter of geography? What are you talking about?

[raponte1955]

@KittenButter Well, then use "location" or any other concept. The idea remains the same, don't you think?

[korzon]

@KittenButter Thats exactly how they justify abortion they think if it's still in the womb it's not alive therefore they murder it.Sorry there is no justification for it.Because then if a woman is pregnant and a mugger kills the woman he is also charged for killing the baby isn't that Hypocritical?The law calls that murder but not in the case when the woman chooses to do it.Thats a bunch of bull it's murder either way.

[Takaja316]

erm the birth of an unwanted baby can affect the life of the mother/father/family, however has absolutely 0 affect on the baby. I don't understand his point.

[rexy5]

@Takaja316 0 affact on the baby....It has THE MOST PROFOUND affect on the BABY! Mother/father/family - they go on living - eating, sleeping, breathing, vacationing in Vermount...etc... Dear God, Takaja - THINK!

[DyXXed]

From which debate is  this?

[drcraigvideos]

@DyXXed Garrett Hardin.

[adamXcore]

What debate is this from?

[poshboy65]

I wouldn't really describe this as wit. 

[drcraigvideos]

@poshboy65 Would you explain why? Or are you here only to make cowardly drive by comments?

[OrderoftheWhiteHand]

@drcraigvideos because Dr. Craig is making a logical point. there is no wit in what he is saying though.

[drcraigvideos]

@OrderoftheWhiteHand There's irony in the fetus, genius.

[rexy5]

@OrderoftheWhiteHand It's the INGENUITY by which he gets his point across, here. That's the 'wit' that drcraigvideos is representing here. Ingenuity is a product of wit. Like wit, or not.

[ZackTheProtestant]

Professor Craig owns

And drcraigvideos thank you for providing these resources on your channel.

I've been a long time student of Craig and his incredible work on the existence of God

[drcraigvideos]

You're welcome!

[prommie81]

Whether you are "pro life" or "pro choice" his example of a fetus in the 8th month is ridiculous and to no comparison to the real issue which is generally the first trimester. He is not being witty he is being incredible unfair.

[drcraigvideos]

So, it's fair to say that a baby born prematurely at 8 months isn't really human and is therefore fit to be killed?

[prommie81]

No and nobody is claiming that it is. The whole abortion issue is generally about fetuses in the first three month. To discuss an 8th month fetus/baby is attacking a straw man. That is what's unfair about his argument.

[drcraigvideos]

There are people who are claiming that it is. Garrett Hardin, for instance. So do many other pro-choice people. The fact that you totally erase this thought from your head and give a totally blind eye to it shows that you're the one making a strawman against Dr. Craig; by claiming he made this argument in an effort to simply unfairly attack the pro-choice position is in of itself an unfair assessment of Dr. Craig. Be more fair next time.

[supermurloc64]

@drcraigvideos but even then when the child starts to develop aborting it is just snuffing out that childs chances at life. and your strawman is using that womens right card. the child is either going to die unborn or be born and live the life it deserves.

[callmeblackjesus]

@drcraigvideos

Amazing. You have a video where you allow the free flow of information. Perhaps Hitler had a soft spot on his heart as well.

[TheEcumenator]

Peter Kreeft's argument against abortion is also amazing, check it out on the internet

[Nate2203]

So, as long as it would be able to live outside the uterus, then it's considered to be a human. I'm glad you made that distinction. So you're not opposed to first trimester abortions then???

[drcraigvideos]

I believe Dr. Craig would be AGAINST the first trimester abortion. As far as I can tell, Dr. Craig is pro-life.

[Nate2203]

well, they wouldn't be able to live outside a uterus, so...

[drcraigvideos]

Well, me oh my! Then I guess that would make it perfectly rational to murder them inside the uterus. You're too fast for me, Nate.

[Nate2203]

That was his "witty" logic!!! Besides, the baby doesn't develop awareness of itself until after the second trimester. Up until the third trimester, abortion is like killing a baby shaped tumor.

Why should we not allow abortions?

[drcraigvideos]

Hmm, it took you about five hours from watching this video for you to finally say, "That was his 'witty' logic[?]" Like I said, you're, uh, too fast for me.

[ExLuedenscheider]

I was not supposed to have been born, for medical reasons, but - even with all the trials and tribulations which life brings - I am very glad that I was! So are my wife and kids, and other people who know me. I think we should assume that - if they were able to express the wish - that most baby shaped tumors would like to progress to humans (!) and have a chance to join the elite of the living.

[Ultimatewiifanboy]

WLC WLC WLC WLC WLC!!!!!!!!!

[thunderbolt94]

PRO-LIFE FTW!!!

[Eye2EyeIIIV]

Debate Richard Dawkins!!!

[shedininja001]

@Eye2EyeIIIV Dawkins has refused numours attempts to set up a debate with Craig

[callmeblackjesus]

@shedininja001

And geologists still refuse to debate flat earthers, historians refuse to debate holocaust deniers and the dentistry profession still refuses to debate those who believe in the tooth fairy. The bible=Bigfoot=UFOs=The Chupacabra=Santie Claus

[huskers12303]

@shedininja001

Where does jesusblack say that anyone is discredited? Ohhhhh. That's right! He doesn't. Wooops!

Besides, Dr. Dawkins isn't close to being the leading spokesman for non-theism. If I get a vote- it's Dr. Ray Bradley....oh yeah.....he knocked Craig's teeth in (metaphorically) dick in the dirt when they debated. Why doesn't Craig demand a rematch? Woooops!

[drcraigvideos]

I think we all know that Dr. Craig would love to debate Dawkins. However, Dawkins is making every excuse in the book to cower away from Dr. Craig.

[thunderbolt94]

@drcraigvideos

Either Dawkins is incredibly ignorant or is a coward. We all know that Bill Craig would wipe the floor with him on the debate floor.

[justchemicalz]

Dawkins doesn't even know who Craig is....isn't that right, "drcraigvideos"? ;-)

(sarcasm mine) LOL

[HenryKorol]

@Eye2EyeIIIV Dawkings declined.

[leviMichealathan]

@ Eye2EyeIIIV

LOL! u r too smart 4 words