This is literally how i think. nonetheless being transmale. i dont understand why we as a society are so brainwashed to think that each gender must look like HOW THEY SHOULD. its just takes the right person to understand what really matters.
I actually wish I was born a guy. I don't wear make or do anything to my appearance and I'm not skinny. I do get called ugly by both guys and girls. Just so depressing..
@Suisei This should motivate ALL women and men to change the world we live in. Wishing to be a dude doesnt change the world weve created. We must strive to change the world so that our daughters dont have to live in a world that objectifies them and dehumanizes them! :)
Its freken HARD being a woman in this world But we MUST stay determined! :]
@69salford69 yeah,sure. As if men could handle it soooo much better. We never made any important decision in this world up to now and what does the world look like now?
"We never made any important decision in this world up to now and what does the world look like now?"
= The world is absolutely FUCKED.
Men ruled the World for 200,000 years living the laws of the jungle, survival of the fittest BLAH BLAH BLAH
Now women are involved you've got human rights, homosexual rights, lesbian rights, transvestite rights, transexual rights, disability rights, civil rights, equality of wages, sexual discrimination rights, equal opportunities, abortion...
@69salford69 Ah, if only women would just accept that they don't matter and that their sole purpose in life is to be men's servants, to be used and discarded once their body is no longer suitable for sex... Wouldn't it be nice? Only Talibans treat their women THAT badly.
And you're mistaken. I never said anything about "laws of the jungle". All those "rights" you're alluding to are not products of women. They're products of people who benefit from communutarianism: banks, financial corps et al
For so long, I felt terrible about myself for being a female. Like I couldn't live up to my dad's expectations - that he was dissappointed that he didn't have a boy. I don't want to feel like I'm the "lesser half" of the species....but this video got me thinking and I am really happy I watched it
@rockleebroccoli01 we're not the "lesser half" of the species. We are simply the half of it, nothing more, nothing less. And trust me, most men with a brain that works do not want to coerce us or belittle us. It's just some of them want to have the traditional stupid housewife back since it allowed them to control us. But the world changes, we all change so we must adapt and some just don't want to adapt.
@alrune8 ...single mothers, breakdown of family, infidelity websites,
Who is looking after the children while the woman is building her career?
What role has the MAN got when the woman is the bread-winner?
What example is being set to young girls when they turn on TV and realise they can be rich and famous and live glorious lives by marrying a professional athlete or movie star?
Why do women demand respect then use sex to get where they want?
@69salford69 I understand where you're coming from. Relationships between men and women have changed because women have symbolically stepped out of the cave, which was inevitable. Now I agree, it shouldn't have happened the way it did.
When it comes to bread winning, women's work is nothing new. History tells us that only wealthy women were housewives. Working class women have ALWAYS worked, most times alongside their spouses (inn tenders, farmers...) or as washerwomen, waitresses and such.
@69salford69 Read both my previous replies. As I said, women's work is nothing new. History tells us that only WEALTHY women were housewives. Working class women have ALWAYS worked, most times alongside their spouses (inn tenders, farmers...) or as washerwomen, waitresses and such.
So women's "liberation" has nothing to do with this, it's just one of the consequences of something much bigger and much more dangerous. It's not the cause of it.
@alrune8@alrune8 "So women's "liberation" has nothing to do with this, it's just one of the consequences of something much bigger and much more dangerous"
= What is this "something" that is bigger and much more dangerous?
@69salford69 Ever heard of global governance? If you want to take power over a civilization, you have to destroy its foundations so that people are ripe to follow any new set of values you want to impose. What is the foundation of EACH AND EVERY civilization/country on this planet, not only the Western world? It's the relationship between men and women, the couple, the family. You destroy this relationship, you destroy humanity's foundations. Women's freedom is only a decoy, not the real thing.
Besides women being a minority in society, being a colored women gives you a double minority. Our society is dominated by men, who are considered the dominant sex, and magazines and their ads are just reinforcing these negative stereotypes. They reinforce the ideas that women are all vulnerable and submissive, that they are just objects that cannot be taken as equals among men. These ads close doors to success, power, property and prestige for women.
@SaoirsesAnaAccount True, females outnumber males on a global scale, but what im saying is that there are no societies in which women have more power than men. And these ads aren't helping.
photoshoped pictures: she didn’t note men are predisposed to be attracted to beautiful women, not because of media but because of the evolution. Perfect women is our fantasy, media companies are merely cashing on our fantasy. Do we really, think we can be with a perfect women like that? Most men would say “no” but Yes all men want such women. But we know our limitations, and that is why we are content by just having their pictures, and if pictures is all we got they better be “perfect.”
@kr9c that's not the point, the point is how advertisements affect women and makes them try to achieve this as you admit, impossible ideal of perfection. These advertisements are directed towards women, not men. So stop being so shortsighted in saying "let me have this impossible ideal" because you know what, you're not the only one that's affected by this.
@kr9c It's true humans have a preference for people they deem "beautiful," but men especially, studies show, put a great deal of stress on women's physical appearances and sexuality over intimacy, personality, and long-term relationships, all of which women prefer more. Part of that, you're right, comes from evolution, but that was when humans were scattered about and finding a mate required a lot more work. Now, men and women, outside countries like China, can find each other easily.
Another issue she mentioned is that men objectify women. But, she never mentioned that women objectify men as well! Let me elaborate. I have browsed hundreds of profiles of girls at shadi.com, most of them say/imply “seeking well-to- do professional.” Men spend good part of their life trying to be a “well-to- do professional,” so that they can have someone to share their life with! Don’t you think this is pressure on men?
@kr9c Furthermore, yes, women have historically preferred financially stable, well-to-do men who can help them care for the child. However, that preference has faded in recent years thanks to the increased mobility of women in the work field. All this adds to the fact that just because evolution predisposes us to certain preferences doesn't mean we should maintain them as part of the status quo. Evolution gives us the ability to adapt and change based on our environments. Why can't we use it?
Moreover, if these gorgeous women (I didn’t make this up, my mind told me that they are gorgeous) won’t model then I will not watch. I mention this because the speaker made men look like predators for “objectifying” women; we are merely watching what you are showing us – and not to mention you are making lot of money by doing this; the lady didn’t mention anything about how much money these models are making for posing in animal costumes, and as bottles.
@kr9c You argue that because advertisers make money and we get pictures of beautiful women, these ads are all right, despite the fact they lower women's self-image, and perpetrate unhealthy views of beauty rarely found in the population. Girls, to match these images, become anorexic, bulimic, and depressed. Men too are affected; they devalue their mates and are more sexually aggressive in response to overly idealized images of women. The culture of beauty can breed a culture of rape.
Humans (women and men) like beautiful things. So why is it “objectification,” “less than human,” ”violent,” etc if i am attracted to beautiful women? There is some evidence that indicates that women like beautiful things just like men. Most women say they would like to have a beautiful diamond for their wedding ring, -- I am still waiting to hear that my love it enough for her—even though substantial number of diamonds have very UGLY history; watch “Blood Diamond” for details.
@kr9c The only people benefiting then are the advertisers earning money, but by raising awareness of these images in advertising we increase the chance of stopping them, and encouraging a less extreme view of beauty. Beautiful women don't need to model just to succeed, as you imply, and replacing them with average women shouldn't make you tune out. You're just used to the status quo, a status quo that can and should be changed for the sake of both women and men.
"Hi,..I'm a guy who is posting this video (for women) to other guys " thx for the video but why do you feel that we should know your a guy? Why should we care?
@jrman2004 I think it's because it is often communicated to women that men don't care about our problems. In turn some men feel they shouldn't. By saying he is a guy; he may encourage other men to see that it's ok to care because they should, because they have mothers, sisters, wives; because this is their world too and their loved ones being treated as less than human.
@harvestcheddar0 The author of this video is obviously pandering to women and I think there is a strong element of cowardice in defection. The thing is my mom sister or wife aren't in these ads but if they wanted to be I'd support their respective choices whole-heatedly rather than cramming my negative judgments down their throat with the assumption that they're helpless objective victims. No one should give two shits what Kilborne has to say because she does not speak for all women.
@professorfoxtrot of cource. but it's also important to remember those who are affected by these ads and in order to solve their suffering, the problem must be identified and dealt with. Also, if it truly does affect men's view of women than that effects all people, it just becomes one of those things that prove we are all connected. Our choices affect others which is something we need to be aware of. Society functions as a whole, not as indivduals makeing choices. It may be nice if it was.
Sorry to "spam" you (does this count as spamming?) but I am trying to get the word out about my petition against Bic's Soleil ladies razor advertisements.
For the first time ever, I am standing up against the way woman are portrayed in marketing, and I need your help. Please check out my petition, and sign if you feel the same way.
its all one agenda,pychologically demean women.all these ads are done through the eyes of the white male. Even if the ad is aimed at black women,it dose not put them in a good light,you'd think it would be designed to please or appeal to the subject,but no,its there to make you feel bad about yourself and buying the product amkes you feel better. The mtv genration are expsoed to this all day now. turn off your t.v. This is nothing less than mass mind controll to keep you in a state of anxiety ,
The human mind evolves from what it sees and hears. As a man or a woman we barely can make any difference in the lives of those who we interact with; because more than the time we spend with them to have any influence on them, they spend more time looking a girl showing her breast for a watch advertisement or a woman smelling AXE and desperately want to sleep with that man wearing AXE. The media is basically taking control of our lives.
This chick is making something out of mostly nothing.
Of course ads can have an effect on women but just tell your daughter what a real woman does and looks like. And don't buy magazines that portray women in a negative light, boycott those magazines etc.
Any ways feminist need to do less talking and more doing.
@trolljanhorse She is not making something of mostly nothing. There is alot of psychology that goes into making ads. Ads reach your brain at a subconcious level. Your mom telling you that you are beautiful and that your body is okay reaches your conscious level, you dont really believe it when your inner core is telling you that your body is not okay and that you need to change things. You do not have to buy magazines. Its all over the television, billboards, and magazines in the grocery store.
What I'm saying is don't support products that push these commercials. Also if what you're saying is true, which I don't believe then how do you stop it, commercials are perfectly legal.
It's simple mothers and feminist need to tell their daughters and women their bodies are beautiful and don't listen to ads or some ahole dude. Being teased and feeling antiquate is to some extent a part of growing up.
@trolljanhorse I agree with you trojan about that being a part of growing up. Yes it is perfectly legal, however it is having a huge effect on people and their minds and brains. Mothers do tell their daughters that they are beautiful, but kids understand that of course their mothers will tell them that. The only thing in their face and in their minds are sex, and body image. Its in everything. Theres really nothing that can be done about it unless there is some standard to commercials.
I don't think moms actually sit their daughters down and tell them that images on TV don't matter.
Also people don't take into account that women are going to be judged by the eyes of men and vice versa. Humans being concerned with their bodies to a certain extent is normal. The question is how much is normal and how much is due to ads.
The woman who made these videos is drawing a conclusion for the people, you can find examples of any point of view if thats what ur looking for........most of this is total bullshit
I understand what this women is trying to say, but its almost as if MEN make us feel guilty for being sexy and having it to our own advantages...i doubt we would like to walk around in smocks with only our eyes showing just like the women do in Arabia. We should be proud that we have power with our sexuality, and embrace our freedom to show as much skin as we feel comfortable with.
@cutebutterfly09 It's women who make each other feel guilty for having sex. The male sex is a cooperative that works together. Women, however, are back-stabbers who like to put the knife in when they least suspect. Theyr'e the ones who harrass their friends by calling them sluts.
Now getting back to this video I think the Ovulin 21 ad was fairly generous with women. It should have read Monday - bullshit, Tuesday - betray a loyal friend, Wednesday - cheat on a boyfriend, Thursday - massive fuckups, Friday - play solitaire at work.
@professorfoxtrot I think you just proved the whole point of this video and how women are oppressed and judged for everything we do. Thanks, dummy! :)
@cheesywish This video demonstrates that women are so weak that they require feminism as a crutch for having such low self-esteem that they have absolutely no will power to control their lives let alone change the channel from the inevitable sexy ass they're watching on television. Women are also too weak and powerless to go to the gym and lift weights, that's why you only see gym memberships sold to women on television (i.e. weight watchers, jenny craig)
.... Gyms make their money on people who subscribe to their gym but don' t have the will power to actually follow through on them. So if anything women aren't oppressed but confined by their own lack of will power, low self-esteem and their inability to cooperate with others and absolute laziness and stupidity. All these components make up for why women starve themselves as a quick fix for being helplessly out of weight. Questions?
@professorfoxtrot Hahahaha! You are hilarious. You're only making feminism stronger with your crazy ranting and sweeping generalizations. Please, keep it up! :)
@cheesywish Feminism is getting weaker and people are finding the idea of women having special rights and extra handouts less cute especially with the state of the economy. I think I can hear the wage gap increasing.
@cheesywish Everyone is judged for what they do, not just women. If you have are a fat woman with a box of KFC people are going to see you as a lazy person with no discipline. The only oppression is your laziness, note everyone's elses greatness. A lazy person asks for handouts from government to assist them in aiding their own incompetence- that's feminism.
@professorfoxtrot Dude, you used a woman as an example. How does that make her represent everyone. I mean disabled people, homosexuals, heterosexuals, black, white, pretty, ugly, rich, poor and all of the other binaries our culture adores.
This is ridiculous! Ad companies don't care what women look like, they just use surveys to figure out what images sell....if that is a fat woman they will use it, if it's a skinny woman they will use it. They want to make MONEY they are not comprising a huge conspiracy!!!!!
That's a really ridiculous statement. Advertising today has the idea of perfection is what brings in money and they refuse to settle for anything less. There are no ads today that show 'fat' women or women with pimples or blemishes. Good luck finding any ad with a woman that's less than perfect on it.
Jean Kilbourne makes a good point with her videos. These documentaries are good for studying how the media works and that's exactly how they work: perfection is what we must aspire to be.
Kilborne is pathetic. The idea of women behaving like women that she harbors a contempt for their individual choices if they don't make Kilborne look favorable.
@alrune8 Absence of logic breeds absence of values. Feminists like to play "Calvin Ball" and simply make up the rules as long as it suits them. Also Feminist studies institutes have become retirement homes of infertility for over the hill ladies who seek teach women to follow their footsteps and become equally as miserable.
@professorfoxtrot Problem is, you count as "logic and acceptable" whichever goes your way. If something seems not to conform to your ideals, you call it "evil and irrational penis-envy".
Obviously, you also believe feminists are a homogeneous group that all think alike, nevermind that different countries, different cultures and traditions mean different views and different issues.
Stigmatising women who don't live by your standards is no better than stigmatising people with different cultures.
@alrune8 No, all feminists believe in women's rights that is rights and special protections (e.g. equity laws) that apply solely for the benefit of women and conversely the detriment of everyone else. If someone does not believe that women should be granted overriding additional rights, then the person ceases to be a feminist. Ergo, all feminists must believe in women's rights and oppose individual rights.
@alrune8 Condemning feminists is nothing like stigamitizing people with (of) different cultures. People who believe that any group should have supreme rights (or a collectivist) are worthy of my ridicule. I have nothing wrong with other cultures, in fact I enjoy other cultures and have spent a lot of time traveling all over the world to experience them. As long as they're not forcing government and society at large to give them special status and additional freebies and rights.
@professorfoxtrot I'm sorry but since when are you some supreme authority? You can ridicule, condescend and insult all you want, it doesn't make you right. You've already admitted that you deeply contempt women, regardless them being feminists or not. Then what are you doing here?
What can you bring here if you don't even like women in the first place? Not even your own mother since, in your own words, we're all whores. What do you want?
@alrune8 Having contempt for feminists and having contempt for women are two different things. I think men are better than women, that doesn't mean I hate women or have contempt for them.
@alrune8 contempt means to dispise. I don't dispise women, I simply recognize that men are better. I don't have contempt for my second pair of shoes that I don't wear because they're not as good as the ones I'm wearing. What do I want? The truth! Men love the truth, Women hate the truth, that's why they wear makeup and get boobjobs
@professorfoxtrot You despise women. You said it yourself that we're all worthless whores. That's contempt, I'm sorry. You contempt women? Good for you. You certainly have your reasons. Just don't be hypocritical and blame women who despise men. They certainly have their reasons as well. Human beings are not shoes BTW.
Women dislike truth, huh? You watch TV and Hollywood films too much, my good sir. There are plenty of women around the world who don't wear make up and don't want plastic breasts.
@alrune8 I didn't say worthless, but I did say whores! Women solicit their sex for money no what what the relationship demands. No woman simply marries a man of lesser stature than herself out of compassion for his well-being as a man does for a woman. That's because women, whether they admit it or not, has a pricetag on her sex.
@professorfoxtrot That's not a universal rule. There are plenty of women around the world who aren't materialistic. If all the women you know are like this that's one thing. It doesn't mean all women around the world are the same. Saying this is just as reductive as saying all men are the same because you know a few guys who act alike.
Now I begin to understand where you're coming from. I have known heaps of men who were horrible persons but I don't believe that all men are like this.
@alrune8 It's directly related to how women survive. Women survive by the bloodlife of their hosts- men. Men do the work and women use it for sustanance. It's not a generalization but a function of biology.
@professorfoxtrot Host? Obviously, you are equating women with parasites, ain't it? There's some truth to what you're saying that women tend, through biological urgings, to go for men who have the strongest genes or at least the social status that may ensure a healthy life for their brood. But like anything in science, there are always exceptions. But I begin to understand your stance or, at least, your mindset. Women who refuse being parasitic are counter-nature, is that it?
@professorfoxtrot Where do you get off saying men are better than women?! It absolutely disgusts me this kind of attitude still exists today and it's attitudes like this that keep women oppressed. Way to stereotype all women in the most simplest and narrow of ways, you really must hardly leave the house and watch a lot of tv. Do you know how dense your generalizing sounds? It's like saying all guys use women, act tough, and only care about cars, going to the gym, and drinking beer
@descendentsdork Where do I get off speaking the truth? Women are not as good as men because they're not as good as men. They just realize that men hold all the positions of power and throw their hands in the air crying oppression. But it's not called oppression, it's called men are better than women. How many societies, empires, superstructures, infrastructures were created by women?
@descendentsdork A stereotype? All men use women for sex and if they say they don't that's just their way of not wanting to hear about it for the next 34 hours. Also, I have not heard of a man entering marriage because he thought it would be a good business decision on his end. With women you have to exchange money, cars, jewelry for sex. Men give their love away for free.
@descendentsdork He gets this idea from the menarebetterthanwomen website. Visit it if you will, his entire arguments are based on this website and its ramblings.
@professorfoxtrot And MAYBE a number of women wouldn't feel such a strong need to "wear makeup and get boob jobs" if a number of men and our popular culture at large didn't make them feel so insecure and put pressure on them for not having "the perfectly toned chest" "the perfectly toned stomach" "the perfectly toned thighs and ass", for not having a super model's "perfect" body. And so what if women wear make up? Did you ever think that women, god forbid, can genuinely enjoy wearing make up....
@descendentsdork Most women look terrible in makeup because they end up applying to much red lipstick and end up looking like they should be making balloons at a children's birthday party but they know down in their hearts that masking their blemishes increases their retail value, that's why women wear makeup to work. Because it is more important for them to look like a salesmen rather than actually being one.
@professorfoxtrot and getting boob jobs for their own satisfaction and not the satisfaction of other people and society? Women can look beautiful with or without makeup. And I'm just so curious to hear what this "truth" is that you say men only know and women don't, why don't you elaborate for us? All of this is coming from a guy by the way........
@descendentsdork Sometimes men who are often inexperienced either with sex or with how women function are actually proponents of feminism but truth be told being a yesman will not get you laid or respected. Truth be told, women get weak at the knees by dominating men who wil make decisions on their behalf because they are unable to make them. Ever ask a woman what kind of music she likes, "uhhh I like everything. lol." then you respond with "good you'll listen to my music"
@professorfoxtrot us "women" try and make things less complex and give u "men" a choice of, for example: music. that doesn't mean we want to listen to ur crap!
professorfoxtrot is a deceiving username for someone who profess so much hatred and rubbish on youTube. you made your strong dislike for Dr. Kilbourns work very clear to me and everyone else on youTube. however, her work is supported by many other respected, legitimate social scientists ALL OVER THE WORLD. it's one thing to develop a personal hatred for someone, but its tacky to use youTube as a platfrom to discount and discredit their academic work.
Feminism has given rise to demogue's like Kilborne who have deflated the value and prestige of a university degree by creating platforms where anyone with a deep-seated contempt for men or capitalism can pass themselves off as intellectuals as opposed to vindictive parasites with poor logic comprehension. FYI if it is tacky to discredit someone over youtube it is surely just as tacky to use it as a platform for your life's work. Clearly you did not think that comment through.
Oh man, you are just lobbing up softballs here . . . I might argue that putting videos about mass media in an accessable place would be awesome, but that's not even an argument I have to make.
She didn't put up the video smart guy. Did you notice the little preface? Some dude put this up.
Well actually, Kilborne did have the video put up by the permission of 'Challenging Media' for the benefit of women and children (and weaker men) I'm not making the claim that youtube should not be a forum of discussion, I'm playing back what her argument sounds like when it's played back to her/him/it
Heh. Hostile white guys are funny as hell. But not for the reasons they think. I suppose I'm "weak" (whatever that means) because I think feminism is an appropriate lens through which to discuss popular culture.
I have no idea what your post means. The video was put up by that Icanseeandhearyou dude.
Glancing through your posts, what puzzles me is how you hold onto your ideas despite lots and lots of contrary evidence. "Hey, I know feminists who are married/have children/ wear high heels/ are hot/ are sex workers/ love fashion/ do lots of things you claim they don't! They just want more diversity about the kinds of portrayals of women that exist in popular culture! And they want to get paid fairly! And not get raped!"
And you say "feminists are ugly women who hate men."
There was a feminist video entitled "this is what a feminist looks like" which was targetted at making feminists look affable. But the fact is, you simply can't put lipstick on a turd and call it beautiful. Mobs who try to undermine individual rights are ugly, jealousy is ugly, contempt for achievement is ugly, forcing unequals to be equals is an ugly notion. These are all feminist positions and ones that evoke ugliness among people.
If they want diverse portrayals of women in media, then they can by all means spend their own fortunes towards generating ads for what ever avante-guarde fringe interests they have... but then it wouldn't be popular culture. But why should they seek to deprive the individual choice of those to market as they please? If feminism had a mantra it should lend itself to George Orwell, "All people are equal, but some people are more equal than others" ;)
Why should it matter if I'm a white guy? I think there's a lot of undue racism (and in many cases masochism) towards white men because others see them in automatic positions of power created just by being white. But even if it were true that all white men were in such positions, justifying such actions is much like a thief who absolves himself of guilt by claiming that he'd only stolen from a rich person.
I doesn't matter that you're white. It matters that you've adopted the position of being defensive and antagonistic toward principled opposition to the status quo. I'm a white guy myself.
Here's my selfish reason for being a feminist. I want there to be interesting, smart women around who have opinions. I do not like mediocrity and conformity. Consumer culture is all about mediocrity and conformity. It's stifling and boring.
It's funny that you mention Orwell. From your posts I'd take it that you wouldn't like socialism? Orwell was a socialist.
Orwell may have been a socialist but animal farm was written on the abuse of egalitarianism and how the equality can be abused to suit the power of a few. It fits the underlying opportunism of feminism quite aptly, perhaps not as much as Hillary Clinton's presidential run though.
"Animal Farm" was specifically about Stalinism, just as "1984" was specifically about post war England. Because he used elaborate analogies, his work can fit lots of stuff, but be careful. He was certainly concerned about individual freedom, but he thought that social action to promote equality and fairness were the ways to do that. He was a skeptical, critical dude, but he was unapologetically a left winger. I have no idea what he would have thought of Hillary Clinton.
But that's what gets me, collectivized rights is the status quo and it has been since people learned to form mobs and bring harm to individuals. I think bad values such as group supremacy ought to be met with hostility because it breaches the contract of equality of rights, for the demands of a few.
Explain SPECIFICALLY how feminists want to challenge equal rights.
Now, be careful here. "Feminists" are not homogeneous. "Feminists" in Australia are actively involved in promoting legal censorship, and they have been successful. I seriously disagree with that. Most American feminists disagree with that.
What rights do American, academic feminists want to take away form you? No Andrea Doworkin stuff.
I'm quite serious about the rights thing. Feminists (like the one in the video. . . no strawmanning. . .you can find crazy people in any party) want for people to have the freedom to chose the way they live out there gender roles. They want to do this by promoting civil rights and by critiquing culture. How is that a threat to individualism. They don't want to outlaw anything. The stuff they condemn is dull, homogeneous popular culture. Nothing in that is a threat to anybody's rights.
@bobjones864 It's true that you can find crazy people in every party or more chastened forms of bigotry. Feminism is quite literally the belief system of the women and I oppose it for the same reason I oppose men's rights in that I don't believe any group has rights, that others simply must recognize. I believe in equality of rights, whereas feminists believe in an inequality of rights wielded to produce an equality of outcome.but only on condition that it is favorable to women.
So you think that the income difference isn't partially a gender bias thing. I see. I disagree, but that's a bigger arguement than can be made in this comment board. Too complex. Some pay difference is certainly voluntary, but after you adjust for that, it's still imbalanced.
Feminists believe in an equality of rights, and they believe that they should pursuade people to think about gender differently to produce more equal outcomes. Nobody wants to take anybody's rights away.
@bobjones864 It does require some thinking but allow me to nullify equal rights as it pertains to feminism, The term feminism literally refers to a belief system acting exclusivey in the interest of the feminine. Thus anyone who claims to be a feminist and proposes they are acting on behalf of equal rights is lying either on the account that they actually support rigthts thereby making them anti-feminist or on the account that they're truly feminist and hence supporte women's rights exclusively.
This is old business, but I haven't checked my account in a while.
You are just wrong. "Feminism" refers to a body of research, scholarship, and activism that began to take shape in the United States and France during the 1970s. It advocates for equal rights, and for challenging gender expectations that lead to unequal social capital. It does not deny gender difference, but it argues that MOST of what we call "gender" is cultural, and therefore subject to critique.
If you want to argue about "feminism" just based on what the word implies, knock yourself out, but you aren't responding to what most people who call themselves "feminists" believe. Susan Faludi, to name one famous example, wrote a book about how social expectations harm men.
@bobjones864 It is an irrational application of terms that lacks all objectivity. It would be like saying that the term "socialism" is defined as "creating better government and challenging expectations." So if you oppose socialism, the socialist will tell you, "what's wrong with you, why would you oppose good government, you must be unreasonable? Likewise feminism has no claim on such values aside from its literal definition (redundant in terms)
Words are not objective. They are socially determined and they have historical contexts. Socialism means something different in Switzerland than it did under Hitler.
Your argument is "contemporary people who call themselves feminists aren't really feminists because they don't believe what I think 'feminist' means. Andrea Dworkin (who fits your definition of feminism) was a feminist, but since Susan Faludi is different from her, she can't possibly be a feminist."
You take issue with a narrow version of feminism that had currency in 1976. So do all of the people we call "third wave feminists." Why do you think you know what feminism actually is? Are you an expert? How much feminist scholarship have you read? Do you know the difference between second wave feminism, continental feminism, and third wave feminism? Queer theory?
"Feminism" doesn't mean ONE thing. Just like "conservative" or "American" don't mean ONE thing
@bobjones864 The argument is null and you could argue the opposite, how many logic degrees do feminists have? And yes, conservative does mean one thing- to conserve. The term conservative has been erroneously applied to people like George Bush as deficit spending and increased government control is the antonym of conserving money. Words represent objective values.
"Logic" is a small subfield of philosophy that often concerns things like math. Very few people in the world who have a degree in that.
So conservative only means what you think it means. Fusionism, libertarianism, Burkean conservatism, and neo-conservatism are not conservatism. (Edmund Burke, who invented the word, was FOR careful, incremental change, particularly if it was for social justice.) I doubt any historian or political scientist agrees.
@bobjones864 Words have meaning and there are rules. Many people falsely call themselves feminists when they don't believe women should have any additional rights. Feminism is about women's rights, rights that belong to women and no one else. For instance, women have rights to be respresented equally in jobs. This would deflate men's greater contribution to the labour force and artifically overvalue the contribution of women.
Okay then. By your standard, there are no feminists who actually exist, just a bunch of people who call themselves that. Alright then.
Feminists believe that unequal representation in jobs is usually a symptom of a problem. They do not believe that women have a "right" to be equally represented in a particular. They do believe that they have a right to paid and promoted according to their efforts and abilities. That's all.
@bobjones864 Businesses who are interested in making money are solely motivated by getting the best value for what they paid for. So hiring men over women because they're men makes absolutely no sense. Feminists demand to be equally valued as men in the laborforce which means the necessity of inflating the value of women's work by the act of government force to equalize. You are starting to see this in Nasa where women have sabotaged missions because they were hired on equity.
I now realize now why I am receiving so much negative feedback yet so little response. No one wants to debate what we already know is true. People would rather just give a quick negative feedback and continue living in a world of false beliefs where fat women are sexy but people don't know it yet because corporations are evil and hell-bent on destroying the lives of first-world-middle-class women.
It's not about fat women being sexy, because clearly a person weighing two-hundred pounds is not the culmination of sexual attractiveness -- it's about normal, healthy women turning less confident because of unreachable standards of beauty set by ads. And actually, fat IS bad. Having 5-6 pounds more than your ideal body weight, that's fine. Having a difference of 50-60 pounds on that, seriously endangers your health.
It's obviously the result of an inferiority complex, not the advertisers. And what about their classmates and colleagues? Pretty women are to be found everywhere! Harrassing and picketing advertisers is not going to make this go away because these people will always feel jealous of what they don't have. Also if a fat girl think she's above dating a fat guy, then she has no right to complain.
But the inferiority complex is fostered by ads showing unobtainable beauty ideals. Of course, someone who has a defect and that's why she's ugly, could hate beautiful women, but normal, young, pretty females shouldn't be put in a position where they compare themselves to movie stars who have dozens of make-up, hair and fashion stylists. Because tv can show everything as there is, we believe that everything shown IS true, whist it isn't, not naturally anyway.
Inferiority complex is fostwered by any form of envy but it is impossible to simply dispose of everything that's more enviable then ourselves. And how spoiled do these girls have to be having been born in a first world country where they aren't required to work to look at one example of envy as the bane of their existence?
Would we be better off if we just tried to shelter these girls off from any type of envy by dispensing of our liberities and censoring the freedom of the press? I think it's much better to allow the child to cope and overcome such jealousies.
professorfoxtrot, please get a life and get a reality test. maybe you cannot attract a woman because you are hateful, dumb and have an empty soul. your post shows that your disdain for this video clearly comes from your own sense of inadequacy as a "man". God help you.
@tarabuttercup So if I want to show my adequacy as a man, I should have no negative views on this video? You might as well just exhibit your robust logic skills by claiming that "anyone who disagrees with this video is a terrorist." Though I wouldn't hold your breath for me to recind my views on the basis of what you think of me. I also shan't be seeking advice from God or any other fictional characters. Feel free to actually address my claims next time.
professorfoxtrot is a deceiving username for someone who profess so much hatred and rubbish on youTube. you made your strong dislike for Dr. Kilbourns work very clear to me and everyone else on youTube. however, her work is supported by many other respected, legitimate social scientists ALL OVER THE WORLD. it's one thing to develop a personal hatred for someone, but its tacky to use youTube as a platfrom to discount and discredit their academic work.
Man's perception of woman can be affected by these adds as well as the way they perceive themselves and how they ought to be as opposed to how they really feel about themselves and women. So it's not ALL about females. After all this society is made up of men and women, how we work together for a common good(equal partnership) makes the difference.
@AmandainMovement Everyone is capable of distinguishing reality from fiction so whether you see women in a pornographic film or an advertisement it's not going to be how you treat your mother. Secondly, all ads portray ideals and fantasies- that's what they appeal to. It's not my fantasty to be sitting beside Rosie O'Donnel discussing the finer points of feminism.
Professorfoxtrot, are you perhaps more inclined to fantasize about keeping women submissive and abusing them? The point here is that these fantasies do have an influence over society. You imply that one thing is the ad and other is reality, but that distinction is not so clear as that. You obviously know the power advertising has over people, especially over children and teenagers. And the ideals and values represented in the ads do influence us, consciously or not.
@GMDFreak I am anti-feminist not anti-woman so I'm going to lay to rest the canard that because I oppose gender opportunists like feminists that I hate women by default. I am an advocate of individual rights and as such i endorse the individual choices of the women participating in these commercials. I don't think they are the property of feminists such as Jean Kilbourne who do so much speaking on behalf of these women without a shred of consideration.
I believe Jean' intention is to open people's mind to the great power of the media, I don't think she hates men or skinny women, I think she believes in equality between men and women and the end of gender based streotypes. Anyone can see that these types of advertisement don't help women OR men.
@AmandainMovement Everything is based on stereotypes since they are themselves representative of common behavior. What Jean Kilbourne would like to create is a world where men are forced to be in the kitchen and women are forced to play football. It's a concept that suits no one's interests except for societal outliers such as dykes and sissies.
I would like to think that Kilbourne was noble enough to lay her life down for the sake of justice and rights equality but the reality is that she is creating a name for herself while promoting bigotry and contempt for both men and women who act individually outside of feminists as she protrays them as defenseless victims in her prsentation rather than consenting participants.
you may be right that there is times when women show oppression to men, but if you continue that argument you will shortly realize that the amount of fuel you have for that argument is far less than what women have twords men. Its easy to be a male and look from on top. But try looking from the bottom once and try another point of veiw. You will realize what an impossible task we expect of women that in the end only rewards mens own desires. Not theirs. You should never ask such things of others
How ignorant can you be? If women don't conform to these norms they are socially ostracized. And obviously all men benefit from womens oppression whether they admit it or not. Clearly through beauty a women gains power, but this power is false because it is a form of oppression by men! You are damned if you do and damned if you don't. And learn how to use proper English and spell you uneducated fuck.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
Hey look, a women who sees oppression from men in everything. Men like women that look certain ways, just like women watch Twilight. OH GAWD I CAN'T GLOW IN THE DARK AND BE A VAMPIRE, A FORM OF OPPRESSION ON ME BY WOMEN.
don't even get me started on twilight! that book is a bunch of crap. its quite depressing that so many young girls as well as their mothers have bought into the idea that a woman should give up everything for a boy including an education, frineds, freedom, and family. even the male ideal is quite depressing in this book as his ideal charicteristics are: rich, overbearing, controlling, and violent.
The fact that there are no women in the NBA denotes oppression. Everyone knows that women in the WNBA are just as capable. Michael Jordan wouldn't be the best basketball in the world if he hadn't oppressed all those women...this is how feminists think.
This is literally how i think. nonetheless being transmale. i dont understand why we as a society are so brainwashed to think that each gender must look like HOW THEY SHOULD. its just takes the right person to understand what really matters.
greykyuubi21 11 months ago
I actually wish I was born a guy. I don't wear make or do anything to my appearance and I'm not skinny. I do get called ugly by both guys and girls. Just so depressing..
Suisei 1 year ago
@Suisei
Catherine, I am not here to try and hurt you My Dear.
..but I AM actually a bit angry that you've given (random)humans PERMISSION to Hurt you.
As you can See, I VERY SELDOM surface to interject my Own input in the comments around here..but I need to make a rare exception For You!
Remember THIS: "BE YOURSELF"! ..because Those who MATTER..Don't Mind! ..and Those who MIND,..Don't Matter!! GOT IT?
Stay away from the garbage. You'll only end up dirtying your hands for dinner.
Love,
Dennis.
IcanSeeAndHearYou 11 months ago 4
@Suisei This should motivate ALL women and men to change the world we live in. Wishing to be a dude doesnt change the world weve created. We must strive to change the world so that our daughters dont have to live in a world that objectifies them and dehumanizes them! :)
Its freken HARD being a woman in this world But we MUST stay determined! :]
Peace and Luv.
tsconflictfree 11 months ago
disney deffently screwed our minds big time as a young child
89blueflower 1 year ago
You rock man, You're a guy, and you're accepting us females for who we are not a bunch of anorexic strippers. You are just awesome. :)
KuromametchiDUDE 1 year ago
go back to the days when women had no power
You lot clearly can't handle freedom
69salford69 1 year ago
@69salford69 yeah,sure. As if men could handle it soooo much better. We never made any important decision in this world up to now and what does the world look like now?
alrune8 1 year ago
@alrune8
"We never made any important decision in this world up to now and what does the world look like now?"
= The world is absolutely FUCKED.
Men ruled the World for 200,000 years living the laws of the jungle, survival of the fittest BLAH BLAH BLAH
Now women are involved you've got human rights, homosexual rights, lesbian rights, transvestite rights, transexual rights, disability rights, civil rights, equality of wages, sexual discrimination rights, equal opportunities, abortion...
69salford69 1 year ago
@69salford69 Ah, if only women would just accept that they don't matter and that their sole purpose in life is to be men's servants, to be used and discarded once their body is no longer suitable for sex... Wouldn't it be nice? Only Talibans treat their women THAT badly.
And you're mistaken. I never said anything about "laws of the jungle". All those "rights" you're alluding to are not products of women. They're products of people who benefit from communutarianism: banks, financial corps et al
alrune8 1 year ago
For so long, I felt terrible about myself for being a female. Like I couldn't live up to my dad's expectations - that he was dissappointed that he didn't have a boy. I don't want to feel like I'm the "lesser half" of the species....but this video got me thinking and I am really happy I watched it
rockleebroccoli01 1 year ago 4
@rockleebroccoli01 we're not the "lesser half" of the species. We are simply the half of it, nothing more, nothing less. And trust me, most men with a brain that works do not want to coerce us or belittle us. It's just some of them want to have the traditional stupid housewife back since it allowed them to control us. But the world changes, we all change so we must adapt and some just don't want to adapt.
alrune8 1 year ago
@alrune8 ...single mothers, breakdown of family, infidelity websites,
Who is looking after the children while the woman is building her career?
What role has the MAN got when the woman is the bread-winner?
What example is being set to young girls when they turn on TV and realise they can be rich and famous and live glorious lives by marrying a professional athlete or movie star?
Why do women demand respect then use sex to get where they want?
Get back to the home, where you're needed !
69salford69 1 year ago
@69salford69 I understand where you're coming from. Relationships between men and women have changed because women have symbolically stepped out of the cave, which was inevitable. Now I agree, it shouldn't have happened the way it did.
When it comes to bread winning, women's work is nothing new. History tells us that only wealthy women were housewives. Working class women have ALWAYS worked, most times alongside their spouses (inn tenders, farmers...) or as washerwomen, waitresses and such.
alrune8 1 year ago
@alrune8 Women have an absolutely CRUCIAL role that connot be underestimated.
That role is to be a mother to their children. There is not one thing more important than that when it comes to family.
Fathers are responsible for everything else.
Women see their right to work as the establishment making it fair for them in the "man's World".
This is not true. The establishment has done the ONE thing that will certainly break down families all over the World.
That's women's liberation
69salford69 1 year ago
@69salford69 Read both my previous replies. As I said, women's work is nothing new. History tells us that only WEALTHY women were housewives. Working class women have ALWAYS worked, most times alongside their spouses (inn tenders, farmers...) or as washerwomen, waitresses and such.
So women's "liberation" has nothing to do with this, it's just one of the consequences of something much bigger and much more dangerous. It's not the cause of it.
alrune8 1 year ago
Comment removed
69salford69 1 year ago
@alrune8 @alrune8 "So women's "liberation" has nothing to do with this, it's just one of the consequences of something much bigger and much more dangerous"
= What is this "something" that is bigger and much more dangerous?
69salford69 1 year ago
@69salford69 Ever heard of global governance? If you want to take power over a civilization, you have to destroy its foundations so that people are ripe to follow any new set of values you want to impose. What is the foundation of EACH AND EVERY civilization/country on this planet, not only the Western world? It's the relationship between men and women, the couple, the family. You destroy this relationship, you destroy humanity's foundations. Women's freedom is only a decoy, not the real thing.
alrune8 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@alrune8 sickening,
what happened on September 11th?
69salford69 1 year ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
uhh im kinda against women's freedom
TheDeepThinker33 1 year ago
@TheDeepThinker33 Uh, do you hear yourself? And you're calling yourself a DEEP thinker?
GraceMartini 1 year ago 2
@TheDeepThinker33 And could you tell us exactly WHY you're against women's freedom? I'd be interested to hear that.
alrune8 1 year ago
Besides women being a minority in society, being a colored women gives you a double minority. Our society is dominated by men, who are considered the dominant sex, and magazines and their ads are just reinforcing these negative stereotypes. They reinforce the ideas that women are all vulnerable and submissive, that they are just objects that cannot be taken as equals among men. These ads close doors to success, power, property and prestige for women.
sneakyxdude 1 year ago
@sneakyxdude women are a majority worldwide
SaoirsesAnaAccount 1 year ago
@SaoirsesAnaAccount True, females outnumber males on a global scale, but what im saying is that there are no societies in which women have more power than men. And these ads aren't helping.
sneakyxdude 1 year ago 2
@sneakyxdude oh yeah I see your point
SaoirsesAnaAccount 1 year ago
photoshoped pictures: she didn’t note men are predisposed to be attracted to beautiful women, not because of media but because of the evolution. Perfect women is our fantasy, media companies are merely cashing on our fantasy. Do we really, think we can be with a perfect women like that? Most men would say “no” but Yes all men want such women. But we know our limitations, and that is why we are content by just having their pictures, and if pictures is all we got they better be “perfect.”
kr9c 1 year ago
@kr9c that's not the point, the point is how advertisements affect women and makes them try to achieve this as you admit, impossible ideal of perfection. These advertisements are directed towards women, not men. So stop being so shortsighted in saying "let me have this impossible ideal" because you know what, you're not the only one that's affected by this.
dorkygirl92 1 year ago
@kr9c It's true humans have a preference for people they deem "beautiful," but men especially, studies show, put a great deal of stress on women's physical appearances and sexuality over intimacy, personality, and long-term relationships, all of which women prefer more. Part of that, you're right, comes from evolution, but that was when humans were scattered about and finding a mate required a lot more work. Now, men and women, outside countries like China, can find each other easily.
RiardoSvandel 1 year ago 5
Another issue she mentioned is that men objectify women. But, she never mentioned that women objectify men as well! Let me elaborate. I have browsed hundreds of profiles of girls at shadi.com, most of them say/imply “seeking well-to- do professional.” Men spend good part of their life trying to be a “well-to- do professional,” so that they can have someone to share their life with! Don’t you think this is pressure on men?
kr9c 1 year ago
@kr9c Furthermore, yes, women have historically preferred financially stable, well-to-do men who can help them care for the child. However, that preference has faded in recent years thanks to the increased mobility of women in the work field. All this adds to the fact that just because evolution predisposes us to certain preferences doesn't mean we should maintain them as part of the status quo. Evolution gives us the ability to adapt and change based on our environments. Why can't we use it?
RiardoSvandel 1 year ago
Moreover, if these gorgeous women (I didn’t make this up, my mind told me that they are gorgeous) won’t model then I will not watch. I mention this because the speaker made men look like predators for “objectifying” women; we are merely watching what you are showing us – and not to mention you are making lot of money by doing this; the lady didn’t mention anything about how much money these models are making for posing in animal costumes, and as bottles.
kr9c 1 year ago
@kr9c You argue that because advertisers make money and we get pictures of beautiful women, these ads are all right, despite the fact they lower women's self-image, and perpetrate unhealthy views of beauty rarely found in the population. Girls, to match these images, become anorexic, bulimic, and depressed. Men too are affected; they devalue their mates and are more sexually aggressive in response to overly idealized images of women. The culture of beauty can breed a culture of rape.
RiardoSvandel 1 year ago
Humans (women and men) like beautiful things. So why is it “objectification,” “less than human,” ”violent,” etc if i am attracted to beautiful women? There is some evidence that indicates that women like beautiful things just like men. Most women say they would like to have a beautiful diamond for their wedding ring, -- I am still waiting to hear that my love it enough for her—even though substantial number of diamonds have very UGLY history; watch “Blood Diamond” for details.
kr9c 1 year ago
@kr9c The only people benefiting then are the advertisers earning money, but by raising awareness of these images in advertising we increase the chance of stopping them, and encouraging a less extreme view of beauty. Beautiful women don't need to model just to succeed, as you imply, and replacing them with average women shouldn't make you tune out. You're just used to the status quo, a status quo that can and should be changed for the sake of both women and men.
RiardoSvandel 1 year ago
killing us softly 3 is the same as killing us softly 4. she uses the same speech for both, just adding newer images in #4.
ksteph444 1 year ago
Thanks for the vid! Realluy interesting.
max1989x1 1 year ago 2
What year was this made? It seems a bit old fashioned.
sharonmary 1 year ago
@sharonmary 1979. There are three other follow up versions, the latest of which was released this year.
FilmRoom112 1 year ago
THANKS Icansee!
amykinslmt 1 year ago
"Hi,..I'm a guy who is posting this video (for women) to other guys " thx for the video but why do you feel that we should know your a guy? Why should we care?
jrman2004 1 year ago
@jrman2004 I think it's because it is often communicated to women that men don't care about our problems. In turn some men feel they shouldn't. By saying he is a guy; he may encourage other men to see that it's ok to care because they should, because they have mothers, sisters, wives; because this is their world too and their loved ones being treated as less than human.
harvestcheddar0 1 year ago
@harvestcheddar0 The author of this video is obviously pandering to women and I think there is a strong element of cowardice in defection. The thing is my mom sister or wife aren't in these ads but if they wanted to be I'd support their respective choices whole-heatedly rather than cramming my negative judgments down their throat with the assumption that they're helpless objective victims. No one should give two shits what Kilborne has to say because she does not speak for all women.
professorfoxtrot 1 year ago
@professorfoxtrot of cource. but it's also important to remember those who are affected by these ads and in order to solve their suffering, the problem must be identified and dealt with. Also, if it truly does affect men's view of women than that effects all people, it just becomes one of those things that prove we are all connected. Our choices affect others which is something we need to be aware of. Society functions as a whole, not as indivduals makeing choices. It may be nice if it was.
harvestcheddar0 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Sorry to "spam" you (does this count as spamming?) but I am trying to get the word out about my petition against Bic's Soleil ladies razor advertisements.
For the first time ever, I am standing up against the way woman are portrayed in marketing, and I need your help. Please check out my petition, and sign if you feel the same way.
Thanks for your time
(remove spaces and asteriks to see link)
thepetitionsite ** . ** com/1/ ** Women-Arent-Objects/
stagecrewjenni 1 year ago
What is the speakers name?
shortstella 1 year ago
@shortstella I think it might be Jean Kilbourne...but I am not sure.
cupidonsarecreepy 1 year ago
its all one agenda,pychologically demean women.all these ads are done through the eyes of the white male. Even if the ad is aimed at black women,it dose not put them in a good light,you'd think it would be designed to please or appeal to the subject,but no,its there to make you feel bad about yourself and buying the product amkes you feel better. The mtv genration are expsoed to this all day now. turn off your t.v. This is nothing less than mass mind controll to keep you in a state of anxiety ,
treefrog2108 1 year ago
Just look up and read about Edward Bernays....propaganda agenda to destroy
majik2hanz 1 year ago
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jenstein101 1 year ago
Very interesting. This should be mandatory to watch in schools.
jenstein101 1 year ago
The human mind evolves from what it sees and hears. As a man or a woman we barely can make any difference in the lives of those who we interact with; because more than the time we spend with them to have any influence on them, they spend more time looking a girl showing her breast for a watch advertisement or a woman smelling AXE and desperately want to sleep with that man wearing AXE. The media is basically taking control of our lives.
antonyraj55 1 year ago
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tylert117 1 year ago
she`s 30 years Behind, I know some guys theories that is the same and he died 30 years ago.
KafshakTashtak 1 year ago
This chick is making something out of mostly nothing.
Of course ads can have an effect on women but just tell your daughter what a real woman does and looks like. And don't buy magazines that portray women in a negative light, boycott those magazines etc.
Any ways feminist need to do less talking and more doing.
trolljanhorse 1 year ago
@trolljanhorse She is not making something of mostly nothing. There is alot of psychology that goes into making ads. Ads reach your brain at a subconcious level. Your mom telling you that you are beautiful and that your body is okay reaches your conscious level, you dont really believe it when your inner core is telling you that your body is not okay and that you need to change things. You do not have to buy magazines. Its all over the television, billboards, and magazines in the grocery store.
0cally 1 year ago
What I'm saying is don't support products that push these commercials. Also if what you're saying is true, which I don't believe then how do you stop it, commercials are perfectly legal.
It's simple mothers and feminist need to tell their daughters and women their bodies are beautiful and don't listen to ads or some ahole dude. Being teased and feeling antiquate is to some extent a part of growing up.
trolljanhorse 1 year ago
@trolljanhorse I agree with you trojan about that being a part of growing up. Yes it is perfectly legal, however it is having a huge effect on people and their minds and brains. Mothers do tell their daughters that they are beautiful, but kids understand that of course their mothers will tell them that. The only thing in their face and in their minds are sex, and body image. Its in everything. Theres really nothing that can be done about it unless there is some standard to commercials.
0cally 1 year ago
I don't think moms actually sit their daughters down and tell them that images on TV don't matter.
Also people don't take into account that women are going to be judged by the eyes of men and vice versa. Humans being concerned with their bodies to a certain extent is normal. The question is how much is normal and how much is due to ads.
trolljanhorse 1 year ago
whoops
inadequate is to some extent part of growing up.
trolljanhorse 1 year ago
The woman who made these videos is drawing a conclusion for the people, you can find examples of any point of view if thats what ur looking for........most of this is total bullshit
PureSMOOTH1 1 year ago
I understand what this women is trying to say, but its almost as if MEN make us feel guilty for being sexy and having it to our own advantages...i doubt we would like to walk around in smocks with only our eyes showing just like the women do in Arabia. We should be proud that we have power with our sexuality, and embrace our freedom to show as much skin as we feel comfortable with.
cutebutterfly09 1 year ago
@cutebutterfly09 It's women who make each other feel guilty for having sex. The male sex is a cooperative that works together. Women, however, are back-stabbers who like to put the knife in when they least suspect. Theyr'e the ones who harrass their friends by calling them sluts.
professorfoxtrot 1 year ago
Now getting back to this video I think the Ovulin 21 ad was fairly generous with women. It should have read Monday - bullshit, Tuesday - betray a loyal friend, Wednesday - cheat on a boyfriend, Thursday - massive fuckups, Friday - play solitaire at work.
professorfoxtrot 1 year ago
@professorfoxtrot I think you just proved the whole point of this video and how women are oppressed and judged for everything we do. Thanks, dummy! :)
cheesywish 1 year ago
@cheesywish This video demonstrates that women are so weak that they require feminism as a crutch for having such low self-esteem that they have absolutely no will power to control their lives let alone change the channel from the inevitable sexy ass they're watching on television. Women are also too weak and powerless to go to the gym and lift weights, that's why you only see gym memberships sold to women on television (i.e. weight watchers, jenny craig)
professorfoxtrot 1 year ago
Comment removed
professorfoxtrot 1 year ago
.... Gyms make their money on people who subscribe to their gym but don' t have the will power to actually follow through on them. So if anything women aren't oppressed but confined by their own lack of will power, low self-esteem and their inability to cooperate with others and absolute laziness and stupidity. All these components make up for why women starve themselves as a quick fix for being helplessly out of weight. Questions?
professorfoxtrot 1 year ago
@professorfoxtrot Hahahaha! You are hilarious. You're only making feminism stronger with your crazy ranting and sweeping generalizations. Please, keep it up! :)
cheesywish 1 year ago
@cheesywish Feminism is getting weaker and people are finding the idea of women having special rights and extra handouts less cute especially with the state of the economy. I think I can hear the wage gap increasing.
professorfoxtrot 1 year ago
@cheesywish Everyone is judged for what they do, not just women. If you have are a fat woman with a box of KFC people are going to see you as a lazy person with no discipline. The only oppression is your laziness, note everyone's elses greatness. A lazy person asks for handouts from government to assist them in aiding their own incompetence- that's feminism.
professorfoxtrot 1 year ago
@professorfoxtrot Dude, you used a woman as an example. How does that make her represent everyone. I mean disabled people, homosexuals, heterosexuals, black, white, pretty, ugly, rich, poor and all of the other binaries our culture adores.
sweetprgirl1 1 year ago
Comment removed
descendentsdork 1 year ago
Thank you for posting this - most grateful
creativeforce11 1 year ago
We have been brainwashed? Our perceptions skewed? Our standards altered? Well yeah, you've been watching TV, haven't you?
Jyoohan 1 year ago
she didn't say all ads have skinny women, she said the majority of them do and she acknowledged a few ads that did show real women.
stuckonthatmaryjane 1 year ago
Are you kidding me! Clearly you haven't seen Dove's Campaign for Real Women. These ads show overweight women.
macsistas 1 year ago
This is ridiculous! Ad companies don't care what women look like, they just use surveys to figure out what images sell....if that is a fat woman they will use it, if it's a skinny woman they will use it. They want to make MONEY they are not comprising a huge conspiracy!!!!!
macsistas 1 year ago
That's a really ridiculous statement. Advertising today has the idea of perfection is what brings in money and they refuse to settle for anything less. There are no ads today that show 'fat' women or women with pimples or blemishes. Good luck finding any ad with a woman that's less than perfect on it.
Jean Kilbourne makes a good point with her videos. These documentaries are good for studying how the media works and that's exactly how they work: perfection is what we must aspire to be.
StarShine480 1 year ago
Could the world be any more wrong in our doing s ???
msaziza26 1 year ago
Kilborne is pathetic. The idea of women behaving like women that she harbors a contempt for their individual choices if they don't make Kilborne look favorable.
professorfoxtrot 2 years ago
@professorfoxtrot Contempt begets contempt, honey. You prove it oh so much.
alrune8 1 year ago
@alrune8 Absence of logic breeds absence of values. Feminists like to play "Calvin Ball" and simply make up the rules as long as it suits them. Also Feminist studies institutes have become retirement homes of infertility for over the hill ladies who seek teach women to follow their footsteps and become equally as miserable.
professorfoxtrot 1 year ago
@professorfoxtrot Problem is, you count as "logic and acceptable" whichever goes your way. If something seems not to conform to your ideals, you call it "evil and irrational penis-envy".
Obviously, you also believe feminists are a homogeneous group that all think alike, nevermind that different countries, different cultures and traditions mean different views and different issues.
Stigmatising women who don't live by your standards is no better than stigmatising people with different cultures.
alrune8 1 year ago
@alrune8 No, all feminists believe in women's rights that is rights and special protections (e.g. equity laws) that apply solely for the benefit of women and conversely the detriment of everyone else. If someone does not believe that women should be granted overriding additional rights, then the person ceases to be a feminist. Ergo, all feminists must believe in women's rights and oppose individual rights.
professorfoxtrot 1 year ago
@alrune8 Condemning feminists is nothing like stigamitizing people with (of) different cultures. People who believe that any group should have supreme rights (or a collectivist) are worthy of my ridicule. I have nothing wrong with other cultures, in fact I enjoy other cultures and have spent a lot of time traveling all over the world to experience them. As long as they're not forcing government and society at large to give them special status and additional freebies and rights.
professorfoxtrot 1 year ago
@professorfoxtrot I'm sorry but since when are you some supreme authority? You can ridicule, condescend and insult all you want, it doesn't make you right. You've already admitted that you deeply contempt women, regardless them being feminists or not. Then what are you doing here?
What can you bring here if you don't even like women in the first place? Not even your own mother since, in your own words, we're all whores. What do you want?
alrune8 1 year ago
@alrune8 Having contempt for feminists and having contempt for women are two different things. I think men are better than women, that doesn't mean I hate women or have contempt for them.
professorfoxtrot 1 year ago
@professorfoxtrot You didn't answer the question. What do you want? What are you trying to do by posting in here?
And I'm sorry thinking oneself better than a group of people is the very definition of contempt.
alrune8 1 year ago
@alrune8 contempt means to dispise. I don't dispise women, I simply recognize that men are better. I don't have contempt for my second pair of shoes that I don't wear because they're not as good as the ones I'm wearing. What do I want? The truth! Men love the truth, Women hate the truth, that's why they wear makeup and get boobjobs
professorfoxtrot 1 year ago
@professorfoxtrot You despise women. You said it yourself that we're all worthless whores. That's contempt, I'm sorry. You contempt women? Good for you. You certainly have your reasons. Just don't be hypocritical and blame women who despise men. They certainly have their reasons as well. Human beings are not shoes BTW.
Women dislike truth, huh? You watch TV and Hollywood films too much, my good sir. There are plenty of women around the world who don't wear make up and don't want plastic breasts.
alrune8 1 year ago
@alrune8 I didn't say worthless, but I did say whores! Women solicit their sex for money no what what the relationship demands. No woman simply marries a man of lesser stature than herself out of compassion for his well-being as a man does for a woman. That's because women, whether they admit it or not, has a pricetag on her sex.
professorfoxtrot 1 year ago
@professorfoxtrot That's not a universal rule. There are plenty of women around the world who aren't materialistic. If all the women you know are like this that's one thing. It doesn't mean all women around the world are the same. Saying this is just as reductive as saying all men are the same because you know a few guys who act alike.
Now I begin to understand where you're coming from. I have known heaps of men who were horrible persons but I don't believe that all men are like this.
alrune8 1 year ago
@alrune8 It's directly related to how women survive. Women survive by the bloodlife of their hosts- men. Men do the work and women use it for sustanance. It's not a generalization but a function of biology.
professorfoxtrot 1 year ago
@professorfoxtrot Host? Obviously, you are equating women with parasites, ain't it? There's some truth to what you're saying that women tend, through biological urgings, to go for men who have the strongest genes or at least the social status that may ensure a healthy life for their brood. But like anything in science, there are always exceptions. But I begin to understand your stance or, at least, your mindset. Women who refuse being parasitic are counter-nature, is that it?
alrune8 1 year ago
@professorfoxtrot Where do you get off saying men are better than women?! It absolutely disgusts me this kind of attitude still exists today and it's attitudes like this that keep women oppressed. Way to stereotype all women in the most simplest and narrow of ways, you really must hardly leave the house and watch a lot of tv. Do you know how dense your generalizing sounds? It's like saying all guys use women, act tough, and only care about cars, going to the gym, and drinking beer
descendentsdork 1 year ago
@descendentsdork Where do I get off speaking the truth? Women are not as good as men because they're not as good as men. They just realize that men hold all the positions of power and throw their hands in the air crying oppression. But it's not called oppression, it's called men are better than women. How many societies, empires, superstructures, infrastructures were created by women?
professorfoxtrot 1 year ago
@descendentsdork A stereotype? All men use women for sex and if they say they don't that's just their way of not wanting to hear about it for the next 34 hours. Also, I have not heard of a man entering marriage because he thought it would be a good business decision on his end. With women you have to exchange money, cars, jewelry for sex. Men give their love away for free.
professorfoxtrot 1 year ago
@descendentsdork He gets this idea from the menarebetterthanwomen website. Visit it if you will, his entire arguments are based on this website and its ramblings.
alrune8 1 year ago
@professorfoxtrot And MAYBE a number of women wouldn't feel such a strong need to "wear makeup and get boob jobs" if a number of men and our popular culture at large didn't make them feel so insecure and put pressure on them for not having "the perfectly toned chest" "the perfectly toned stomach" "the perfectly toned thighs and ass", for not having a super model's "perfect" body. And so what if women wear make up? Did you ever think that women, god forbid, can genuinely enjoy wearing make up....
descendentsdork 1 year ago
@descendentsdork Most women look terrible in makeup because they end up applying to much red lipstick and end up looking like they should be making balloons at a children's birthday party but they know down in their hearts that masking their blemishes increases their retail value, that's why women wear makeup to work. Because it is more important for them to look like a salesmen rather than actually being one.
professorfoxtrot 1 year ago
@professorfoxtrot and getting boob jobs for their own satisfaction and not the satisfaction of other people and society? Women can look beautiful with or without makeup. And I'm just so curious to hear what this "truth" is that you say men only know and women don't, why don't you elaborate for us? All of this is coming from a guy by the way........
descendentsdork 1 year ago
@descendentsdork Sometimes men who are often inexperienced either with sex or with how women function are actually proponents of feminism but truth be told being a yesman will not get you laid or respected. Truth be told, women get weak at the knees by dominating men who wil make decisions on their behalf because they are unable to make them. Ever ask a woman what kind of music she likes, "uhhh I like everything. lol." then you respond with "good you'll listen to my music"
professorfoxtrot 1 year ago
@professorfoxtrot us "women" try and make things less complex and give u "men" a choice of, for example: music. that doesn't mean we want to listen to ur crap!
cutebutterfly09 1 year ago
professorfoxtrot is a deceiving username for someone who profess so much hatred and rubbish on youTube. you made your strong dislike for Dr. Kilbourns work very clear to me and everyone else on youTube. however, her work is supported by many other respected, legitimate social scientists ALL OVER THE WORLD. it's one thing to develop a personal hatred for someone, but its tacky to use youTube as a platfrom to discount and discredit their academic work.
tarabuttercup 2 years ago
Feminism has given rise to demogue's like Kilborne who have deflated the value and prestige of a university degree by creating platforms where anyone with a deep-seated contempt for men or capitalism can pass themselves off as intellectuals as opposed to vindictive parasites with poor logic comprehension. FYI if it is tacky to discredit someone over youtube it is surely just as tacky to use it as a platform for your life's work. Clearly you did not think that comment through.
professorfoxtrot 2 years ago
@professorfoxtrot
Oh man, you are just lobbing up softballs here . . . I might argue that putting videos about mass media in an accessable place would be awesome, but that's not even an argument I have to make.
She didn't put up the video smart guy. Did you notice the little preface? Some dude put this up.
bobjones864 2 years ago
Well actually, Kilborne did have the video put up by the permission of 'Challenging Media' for the benefit of women and children (and weaker men) I'm not making the claim that youtube should not be a forum of discussion, I'm playing back what her argument sounds like when it's played back to her/him/it
professorfoxtrot 2 years ago
@professorfoxtrot
Heh. Hostile white guys are funny as hell. But not for the reasons they think. I suppose I'm "weak" (whatever that means) because I think feminism is an appropriate lens through which to discuss popular culture.
I have no idea what your post means. The video was put up by that Icanseeandhearyou dude.
bobjones864 2 years ago
@bobjones864
Glancing through your posts, what puzzles me is how you hold onto your ideas despite lots and lots of contrary evidence. "Hey, I know feminists who are married/have children/ wear high heels/ are hot/ are sex workers/ love fashion/ do lots of things you claim they don't! They just want more diversity about the kinds of portrayals of women that exist in popular culture! And they want to get paid fairly! And not get raped!"
And you say "feminists are ugly women who hate men."
bobjones864 2 years ago
@bobjones864
You do play the guitar rather well though.
bobjones864 2 years ago
There was a feminist video entitled "this is what a feminist looks like" which was targetted at making feminists look affable. But the fact is, you simply can't put lipstick on a turd and call it beautiful. Mobs who try to undermine individual rights are ugly, jealousy is ugly, contempt for achievement is ugly, forcing unequals to be equals is an ugly notion. These are all feminist positions and ones that evoke ugliness among people.
professorfoxtrot 2 years ago
If they want diverse portrayals of women in media, then they can by all means spend their own fortunes towards generating ads for what ever avante-guarde fringe interests they have... but then it wouldn't be popular culture. But why should they seek to deprive the individual choice of those to market as they please? If feminism had a mantra it should lend itself to George Orwell, "All people are equal, but some people are more equal than others" ;)
professorfoxtrot 2 years ago
Why should it matter if I'm a white guy? I think there's a lot of undue racism (and in many cases masochism) towards white men because others see them in automatic positions of power created just by being white. But even if it were true that all white men were in such positions, justifying such actions is much like a thief who absolves himself of guilt by claiming that he'd only stolen from a rich person.
professorfoxtrot 2 years ago
I doesn't matter that you're white. It matters that you've adopted the position of being defensive and antagonistic toward principled opposition to the status quo. I'm a white guy myself.
bobjones864 2 years ago
Here's my selfish reason for being a feminist. I want there to be interesting, smart women around who have opinions. I do not like mediocrity and conformity. Consumer culture is all about mediocrity and conformity. It's stifling and boring.
It's funny that you mention Orwell. From your posts I'd take it that you wouldn't like socialism? Orwell was a socialist.
bobjones864 2 years ago
Orwell may have been a socialist but animal farm was written on the abuse of egalitarianism and how the equality can be abused to suit the power of a few. It fits the underlying opportunism of feminism quite aptly, perhaps not as much as Hillary Clinton's presidential run though.
professorfoxtrot 2 years ago
"Animal Farm" was specifically about Stalinism, just as "1984" was specifically about post war England. Because he used elaborate analogies, his work can fit lots of stuff, but be careful. He was certainly concerned about individual freedom, but he thought that social action to promote equality and fairness were the ways to do that. He was a skeptical, critical dude, but he was unapologetically a left winger. I have no idea what he would have thought of Hillary Clinton.
bobjones864 2 years ago
But that's what gets me, collectivized rights is the status quo and it has been since people learned to form mobs and bring harm to individuals. I think bad values such as group supremacy ought to be met with hostility because it breaches the contract of equality of rights, for the demands of a few.
professorfoxtrot 2 years ago
"Collectivized rights?"
Explain.
Explain SPECIFICALLY how feminists want to challenge equal rights.
Now, be careful here. "Feminists" are not homogeneous. "Feminists" in Australia are actively involved in promoting legal censorship, and they have been successful. I seriously disagree with that. Most American feminists disagree with that.
What rights do American, academic feminists want to take away form you? No Andrea Doworkin stuff.
bobjones864 2 years ago
I'm quite serious about the rights thing. Feminists (like the one in the video. . . no strawmanning. . .you can find crazy people in any party) want for people to have the freedom to chose the way they live out there gender roles. They want to do this by promoting civil rights and by critiquing culture. How is that a threat to individualism. They don't want to outlaw anything. The stuff they condemn is dull, homogeneous popular culture. Nothing in that is a threat to anybody's rights.
bobjones864 2 years ago
@bobjones864 It's true that you can find crazy people in every party or more chastened forms of bigotry. Feminism is quite literally the belief system of the women and I oppose it for the same reason I oppose men's rights in that I don't believe any group has rights, that others simply must recognize. I believe in equality of rights, whereas feminists believe in an inequality of rights wielded to produce an equality of outcome.but only on condition that it is favorable to women.
professorfoxtrot 2 years ago
So you think that the income difference isn't partially a gender bias thing. I see. I disagree, but that's a bigger arguement than can be made in this comment board. Too complex. Some pay difference is certainly voluntary, but after you adjust for that, it's still imbalanced.
Feminists believe in an equality of rights, and they believe that they should pursuade people to think about gender differently to produce more equal outcomes. Nobody wants to take anybody's rights away.
bobjones864 2 years ago
If you're not into the men's rights nonsense then there's hope for you.
I'm not sure what any of this has to do with this video.
bobjones864 2 years ago
@bobjones864 It does require some thinking but allow me to nullify equal rights as it pertains to feminism, The term feminism literally refers to a belief system acting exclusivey in the interest of the feminine. Thus anyone who claims to be a feminist and proposes they are acting on behalf of equal rights is lying either on the account that they actually support rigthts thereby making them anti-feminist or on the account that they're truly feminist and hence supporte women's rights exclusively.
professorfoxtrot 1 year ago
@professorfoxtrot
This is old business, but I haven't checked my account in a while.
You are just wrong. "Feminism" refers to a body of research, scholarship, and activism that began to take shape in the United States and France during the 1970s. It advocates for equal rights, and for challenging gender expectations that lead to unequal social capital. It does not deny gender difference, but it argues that MOST of what we call "gender" is cultural, and therefore subject to critique.
bobjones864 1 year ago
@bobjones864
If you want to argue about "feminism" just based on what the word implies, knock yourself out, but you aren't responding to what most people who call themselves "feminists" believe. Susan Faludi, to name one famous example, wrote a book about how social expectations harm men.
bobjones864 1 year ago
@bobjones864 It is an irrational application of terms that lacks all objectivity. It would be like saying that the term "socialism" is defined as "creating better government and challenging expectations." So if you oppose socialism, the socialist will tell you, "what's wrong with you, why would you oppose good government, you must be unreasonable? Likewise feminism has no claim on such values aside from its literal definition (redundant in terms)
professorfoxtrot 1 year ago
@professorfoxtrot
Words are not objective. They are socially determined and they have historical contexts. Socialism means something different in Switzerland than it did under Hitler.
Your argument is "contemporary people who call themselves feminists aren't really feminists because they don't believe what I think 'feminist' means. Andrea Dworkin (who fits your definition of feminism) was a feminist, but since Susan Faludi is different from her, she can't possibly be a feminist."
bobjones864 1 year ago
@bobjones86
You take issue with a narrow version of feminism that had currency in 1976. So do all of the people we call "third wave feminists." Why do you think you know what feminism actually is? Are you an expert? How much feminist scholarship have you read? Do you know the difference between second wave feminism, continental feminism, and third wave feminism? Queer theory?
"Feminism" doesn't mean ONE thing. Just like "conservative" or "American" don't mean ONE thing
bobjones864 1 year ago
@bobjones864 The argument is null and you could argue the opposite, how many logic degrees do feminists have? And yes, conservative does mean one thing- to conserve. The term conservative has been erroneously applied to people like George Bush as deficit spending and increased government control is the antonym of conserving money. Words represent objective values.
professorfoxtrot 1 year ago
"Logic" is a small subfield of philosophy that often concerns things like math. Very few people in the world who have a degree in that.
So conservative only means what you think it means. Fusionism, libertarianism, Burkean conservatism, and neo-conservatism are not conservatism. (Edmund Burke, who invented the word, was FOR careful, incremental change, particularly if it was for social justice.) I doubt any historian or political scientist agrees.
Define silopsism for me.
bobjones864 1 year ago
@bobjones864 Words have meaning and there are rules. Many people falsely call themselves feminists when they don't believe women should have any additional rights. Feminism is about women's rights, rights that belong to women and no one else. For instance, women have rights to be respresented equally in jobs. This would deflate men's greater contribution to the labour force and artifically overvalue the contribution of women.
professorfoxtrot 1 year ago
@professorfoxtrot
Ummm. . . .
Okay then. By your standard, there are no feminists who actually exist, just a bunch of people who call themselves that. Alright then.
Feminists believe that unequal representation in jobs is usually a symptom of a problem. They do not believe that women have a "right" to be equally represented in a particular. They do believe that they have a right to paid and promoted according to their efforts and abilities. That's all.
bobjones864 1 year ago
@bobjones864 Businesses who are interested in making money are solely motivated by getting the best value for what they paid for. So hiring men over women because they're men makes absolutely no sense. Feminists demand to be equally valued as men in the laborforce which means the necessity of inflating the value of women's work by the act of government force to equalize. You are starting to see this in Nasa where women have sabotaged missions because they were hired on equity.
professorfoxtrot 1 year ago
I now realize now why I am receiving so much negative feedback yet so little response. No one wants to debate what we already know is true. People would rather just give a quick negative feedback and continue living in a world of false beliefs where fat women are sexy but people don't know it yet because corporations are evil and hell-bent on destroying the lives of first-world-middle-class women.
professorfoxtrot 2 years ago
It's not about fat women being sexy, because clearly a person weighing two-hundred pounds is not the culmination of sexual attractiveness -- it's about normal, healthy women turning less confident because of unreachable standards of beauty set by ads. And actually, fat IS bad. Having 5-6 pounds more than your ideal body weight, that's fine. Having a difference of 50-60 pounds on that, seriously endangers your health.
par0nnoyed 2 years ago
It's obviously the result of an inferiority complex, not the advertisers. And what about their classmates and colleagues? Pretty women are to be found everywhere! Harrassing and picketing advertisers is not going to make this go away because these people will always feel jealous of what they don't have. Also if a fat girl think she's above dating a fat guy, then she has no right to complain.
professorfoxtrot 2 years ago
But the inferiority complex is fostered by ads showing unobtainable beauty ideals. Of course, someone who has a defect and that's why she's ugly, could hate beautiful women, but normal, young, pretty females shouldn't be put in a position where they compare themselves to movie stars who have dozens of make-up, hair and fashion stylists. Because tv can show everything as there is, we believe that everything shown IS true, whist it isn't, not naturally anyway.
par0nnoyed 2 years ago
Inferiority complex is fostwered by any form of envy but it is impossible to simply dispose of everything that's more enviable then ourselves. And how spoiled do these girls have to be having been born in a first world country where they aren't required to work to look at one example of envy as the bane of their existence?
professorfoxtrot 2 years ago
Would we be better off if we just tried to shelter these girls off from any type of envy by dispensing of our liberities and censoring the freedom of the press? I think it's much better to allow the child to cope and overcome such jealousies.
professorfoxtrot 2 years ago
professorfoxtrot, please get a life and get a reality test. maybe you cannot attract a woman because you are hateful, dumb and have an empty soul. your post shows that your disdain for this video clearly comes from your own sense of inadequacy as a "man". God help you.
tarabuttercup 2 years ago
@tarabuttercup So if I want to show my adequacy as a man, I should have no negative views on this video? You might as well just exhibit your robust logic skills by claiming that "anyone who disagrees with this video is a terrorist." Though I wouldn't hold your breath for me to recind my views on the basis of what you think of me. I also shan't be seeking advice from God or any other fictional characters. Feel free to actually address my claims next time.
professorfoxtrot 2 years ago
professorfoxtrot is a deceiving username for someone who profess so much hatred and rubbish on youTube. you made your strong dislike for Dr. Kilbourns work very clear to me and everyone else on youTube. however, her work is supported by many other respected, legitimate social scientists ALL OVER THE WORLD. it's one thing to develop a personal hatred for someone, but its tacky to use youTube as a platfrom to discount and discredit their academic work.
tarabuttercup 2 years ago
Proof positive that Madison Ave. is run by Satanist, who are sexually liberating the world from being naturally inhibited.
matrxmax 2 years ago
I suppose you have a point there professorfoxtrot...
AmandainMovement 2 years ago
thanks for uploading this vid.. I hope you can upload other vids from the media foundation that show the same problem.
raynaharris 2 years ago
There will come a day when all you whores will be barefoot and pregnant. No go cook me a meatloaf!
Ltrain62 2 years ago
@profesofoxtrot I DISAGREE
Man's perception of woman can be affected by these adds as well as the way they perceive themselves and how they ought to be as opposed to how they really feel about themselves and women. So it's not ALL about females. After all this society is made up of men and women, how we work together for a common good(equal partnership) makes the difference.
AmandainMovement 2 years ago
@AmandainMovement Everyone is capable of distinguishing reality from fiction so whether you see women in a pornographic film or an advertisement it's not going to be how you treat your mother. Secondly, all ads portray ideals and fantasies- that's what they appeal to. It's not my fantasty to be sitting beside Rosie O'Donnel discussing the finer points of feminism.
professorfoxtrot 2 years ago
Comment removed
GMDFreak 2 years ago
Professorfoxtrot, are you perhaps more inclined to fantasize about keeping women submissive and abusing them? The point here is that these fantasies do have an influence over society. You imply that one thing is the ad and other is reality, but that distinction is not so clear as that. You obviously know the power advertising has over people, especially over children and teenagers. And the ideals and values represented in the ads do influence us, consciously or not.
GMDFreak 2 years ago
@GMDFreak I am anti-feminist not anti-woman so I'm going to lay to rest the canard that because I oppose gender opportunists like feminists that I hate women by default. I am an advocate of individual rights and as such i endorse the individual choices of the women participating in these commercials. I don't think they are the property of feminists such as Jean Kilbourne who do so much speaking on behalf of these women without a shred of consideration.
professorfoxtrot 2 years ago
I believe Jean' intention is to open people's mind to the great power of the media, I don't think she hates men or skinny women, I think she believes in equality between men and women and the end of gender based streotypes. Anyone can see that these types of advertisement don't help women OR men.
AmandainMovement 2 years ago
@AmandainMovement Everything is based on stereotypes since they are themselves representative of common behavior. What Jean Kilbourne would like to create is a world where men are forced to be in the kitchen and women are forced to play football. It's a concept that suits no one's interests except for societal outliers such as dykes and sissies.
professorfoxtrot 2 years ago
I would like to think that Kilbourne was noble enough to lay her life down for the sake of justice and rights equality but the reality is that she is creating a name for herself while promoting bigotry and contempt for both men and women who act individually outside of feminists as she protrays them as defenseless victims in her prsentation rather than consenting participants.
professorfoxtrot 2 years ago
c'mon guys, "professorfoxtrot" MUST know what he's talking about since he has "professor" in his name!
tinyturk 2 years ago
@tinyturk I have yet to hear a rebuttal.
professorfoxtrot 2 years ago
bitch at the start had pretty nice tits
DrScallyBoi 2 years ago
You are a troll. Stfu please.
zammmerjammer 2 years ago
you may be right that there is times when women show oppression to men, but if you continue that argument you will shortly realize that the amount of fuel you have for that argument is far less than what women have twords men. Its easy to be a male and look from on top. But try looking from the bottom once and try another point of veiw. You will realize what an impossible task we expect of women that in the end only rewards mens own desires. Not theirs. You should never ask such things of others
waunke56 2 years ago 5
This has been flagged as spam show
yall girls got to calm down no one is forcing yall to do nothing - girls who do stuff dat yall think men force dem to do , do it cus dey want to
cantu53 2 years ago
How ignorant can you be? If women don't conform to these norms they are socially ostracized. And obviously all men benefit from womens oppression whether they admit it or not. Clearly through beauty a women gains power, but this power is false because it is a form of oppression by men! You are damned if you do and damned if you don't. And learn how to use proper English and spell you uneducated fuck.
wgrlwidablakbelt 2 years ago 4
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Hey look, a women who sees oppression from men in everything. Men like women that look certain ways, just like women watch Twilight. OH GAWD I CAN'T GLOW IN THE DARK AND BE A VAMPIRE, A FORM OF OPPRESSION ON ME BY WOMEN.
Therefore shut up, and move to Sweden.
xodvas 2 years ago
don't even get me started on twilight! that book is a bunch of crap. its quite depressing that so many young girls as well as their mothers have bought into the idea that a woman should give up everything for a boy including an education, frineds, freedom, and family. even the male ideal is quite depressing in this book as his ideal charicteristics are: rich, overbearing, controlling, and violent.
xXBarbeloXx 2 years ago 2
The fact that there are no women in the NBA denotes oppression. Everyone knows that women in the WNBA are just as capable. Michael Jordan wouldn't be the best basketball in the world if he hadn't oppressed all those women...this is how feminists think.
professorfoxtrot 2 years ago
Yeah, it really isn't, "professor" but thanks for coming out.
Feminists might question why there is less money and support for the WNBA and girls' sports programs generally.
zammmerjammer 2 years ago