True repentance includes both Grace and Works. Thus why the confusion. It is true that in LDS Culture sometimes well meaning Lds people can get to focused on the works aspect just like in other religious cultures other people are two focused on the grace side and they put no effort forth what so ever. Focusing to much on one or the other can be detrimental to a persons progress. Thus why balance is always key. But you must learn to separate culture from Doctrine and the Gospel.
Everyone that will go to Heaven will have fallen short of Perfection and everyone who will be there, will be there because of the Atonement of Jesus Christ and the Grace and Mercy it brings. Every person will have failed and sinned so all of them could have ended up out of his presence because of the demands of Justice. Those who are there will be there not because they were perfect like Jesus Christ but because they repented and the demands of justice were satisfied by what he already did.
Of course we have weaknesses and can fail again in the same ways before we overcome something and then once again repentance is necessary. There is no limit to the amount of times God will forgive us and the atonement can take place in our lives but Grace is only sufficient for those who have had a TRUE change of heart and once that change takes place abounding in Good works is a natural consequence. "By their fruits ye shall know them." That is how you can recognize a true follower of Christ.
Grace is a Gift but it IS contingent on true repentance. To fully repent a person must 1. Confess before God and admit their wrongs. 2. Ask for forgiveness. 3. Do all they can when possible to make restitution for wrong doings. (Example: If they stole tell the truth to whom they stole from and make an effort to right the wrong.) 4. Make a vow to God not to repeat the offense and make a solid effort not to do it again. So that does take some work on the persons part.
Thats the first part of repentance but not all. I was a part of several churches before I became LDS and one of the things I noticed was that repentance to most people seemed to just be a matter of confessing wrong before God and apologizing. I watched people do whatever they wanted and think it was ok because they could just keep saying they were sorry with no effort what so ever to change their behavior. That was their idea of Grace.
Getting into Heaven is not contingent upon our efforts in the sense that we earn our way in to heaven. Everyone that goes to Heaven is there because of the Atonement of Jesus Christ and because of repentance. The definition of repentance is really the fundamental difference in our opinions. Repentance is not just confessing your wrongs and asking forgiveness as so many seem to believe. That is not quite the full picture. There is more to it than that.
Some of you are misunderstanding the doctrines and message. I have often heard the accusations that LDS people don't believe in Christ because they believe in works to get into heaven. This is not true. That is not LDS doctrine. We believe in Grace and Works and that both are needed. I'll liken it to being in a boat with paddles. With only the paddle of works you will only paddle in circles and likewise only believing in grace you will paddle in circles. But with both you can go forward.
@rovingdesertfox It's all about faith, buddy. If you don't understand faith and heavenly knowledge, then there's no way I can ever explain to you my beliefs. Once you understand that, then we'll talk.
@ItsKnucklez You really think that is official doctrine of the Church? Since when did Google become a synonym for research? Lame. That's like saying your doctor told you to get new tires. No relevance at all. Lame again.
Show me where it doesn't talk about going to heaven after death. Show me where it doesn't talk about a war in heaven preceding our time on earth. Show me where it doesn't talk about 3 heavens. Show me where it doesn't talk about God sending His Son to Atone for us.
The scriptures are true! and profitable for all to read them. Religion is a wonderful thing, where people humble themselves and choose to believe in God.
As you say, all of us chose to follow Jesus Christ and the plan of salvation. Jesus is the Christ! Thanks for sharing your testimony.
Why is Jesus not enough for you MAM? Why do you insist on a whole bunch of other stuff when Scripture is clear to point out that Christ's sacrifice on the Cross of Calvary is all sufficient?
Liar! Mormon doctrine states that you need a Temple marriage in order to live with Heavenly Father for eternity, you also have to tithe regularly without fail and keep the law of Moses, how did you miss that lot?! Will a Mormon go to live in the Celestial Kingdom WITHOUT a Temple Recommend? Yes or no?
President Spencer W. Kimball said: "Only through celestial [temple] marriage can one find the strait way, the narrow path. Eternal Life cannot be had in any other way" (Deseret News, Church Section, Nov.12, 1977).
You mean you disagree with President Kimball? (I hope you're Bishop doesn't find out! It could ruin your Temple Recommend).
I watched your video and again you've lied through your teeth, you DON'T believe Jesus is enough. On the video you say that he died for ALL our sins then go on to say how we can earn that forgiveness. We can't EARN IT, that would be Jesus PLUS MY WORKS. You are so blind it's lamentable. Stop lying and trust Jesus ALONE!!!
We believe Christ is the way. He set the way by His example. We must follow it and live by it. That's called works. He provided necessary ordinances for us to prepare to live with Him again. They all happen because of the Atonement. We perform Temple Marriages to be sealed to the work of the Atonement. To become closer to Him. Christ's own apostles taught that we will be judged by our works as well as faith.
I mean, I've heard about the different worlds humankind should aim to populate in its exaltation but your talking about the sun and the moon and the stars of our solar system?
I didn't have much time to talk about that. The 3 Kingdoms are compared to the Sun, Moon and the Stars in their brightness in the sky. The Celestial Kingdom is the highest, or like unto the sun. Terrestrial like the moon and the Telestial like the stars. Make sense?
By not teaching the gospel to all, few, if any would ever have a chance to make it to the Celestial Kingdom.
It's true that a husband and a wife can be in separate kingdoms. That is why we need to both strive to keep our Temple Covenants so we can both be worthy of the Celestial Kingdom.
I've read that children that die before reaching an age of accountability (8?) and people who die without knowledge of the gospel (but would accept it if they had?) will be saved in the Celestial Kingdom...
That's correct. And I see what you are getting at. Why teach the gospel if you can just accept it on the other side?
I think that it is better to get the gospel here, and enjoy all of the blessings of obedience in this life. Also, what about all of those people that sin here, and wouldn't accept the gospel in the next life? Why not give them a shot here?
I have to say that your example of having all the answers to the exam is not that good. You do have all the answers before the exam. You need to study to understand the subject but that's different.
If we have knowledge of the subject we don't need to study, or even better, we can aim to a higher level on understanding.
I've heard this example before in different contexts, but I don't recognize any validity in it.
I don't understand the levels of brightness you've mentioned...
True repentance includes both Grace and Works. Thus why the confusion. It is true that in LDS Culture sometimes well meaning Lds people can get to focused on the works aspect just like in other religious cultures other people are two focused on the grace side and they put no effort forth what so ever. Focusing to much on one or the other can be detrimental to a persons progress. Thus why balance is always key. But you must learn to separate culture from Doctrine and the Gospel.
LoveandLight4All 1 month ago
Everyone that will go to Heaven will have fallen short of Perfection and everyone who will be there, will be there because of the Atonement of Jesus Christ and the Grace and Mercy it brings. Every person will have failed and sinned so all of them could have ended up out of his presence because of the demands of Justice. Those who are there will be there not because they were perfect like Jesus Christ but because they repented and the demands of justice were satisfied by what he already did.
LoveandLight4All 1 month ago
Of course we have weaknesses and can fail again in the same ways before we overcome something and then once again repentance is necessary. There is no limit to the amount of times God will forgive us and the atonement can take place in our lives but Grace is only sufficient for those who have had a TRUE change of heart and once that change takes place abounding in Good works is a natural consequence. "By their fruits ye shall know them." That is how you can recognize a true follower of Christ.
LoveandLight4All 1 month ago
Grace is a Gift but it IS contingent on true repentance. To fully repent a person must 1. Confess before God and admit their wrongs. 2. Ask for forgiveness. 3. Do all they can when possible to make restitution for wrong doings. (Example: If they stole tell the truth to whom they stole from and make an effort to right the wrong.) 4. Make a vow to God not to repeat the offense and make a solid effort not to do it again. So that does take some work on the persons part.
LoveandLight4All 1 month ago
Thats the first part of repentance but not all. I was a part of several churches before I became LDS and one of the things I noticed was that repentance to most people seemed to just be a matter of confessing wrong before God and apologizing. I watched people do whatever they wanted and think it was ok because they could just keep saying they were sorry with no effort what so ever to change their behavior. That was their idea of Grace.
LoveandLight4All 1 month ago
Getting into Heaven is not contingent upon our efforts in the sense that we earn our way in to heaven. Everyone that goes to Heaven is there because of the Atonement of Jesus Christ and because of repentance. The definition of repentance is really the fundamental difference in our opinions. Repentance is not just confessing your wrongs and asking forgiveness as so many seem to believe. That is not quite the full picture. There is more to it than that.
LoveandLight4All 1 month ago
Some of you are misunderstanding the doctrines and message. I have often heard the accusations that LDS people don't believe in Christ because they believe in works to get into heaven. This is not true. That is not LDS doctrine. We believe in Grace and Works and that both are needed. I'll liken it to being in a boat with paddles. With only the paddle of works you will only paddle in circles and likewise only believing in grace you will paddle in circles. But with both you can go forward.
LoveandLight4All 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
I will tell you why I am no longer a Mormon if you wish
crazy456eyes 4 months ago
Plan of happiness: How can your answers that make you feel so good be verified.
I'm interested in knowing, not in faith. To know is to have a real reason to be happy.
To pretend to know, or believe, is to gloss over reality. The deepest part of your soul
cannot be happy at all, but distressed because it sees you are accepting unprovable ideas as a reason to rest. How can you possibly rest assured when
you have no proof?
rovingdesertfox 9 months ago
@rovingdesertfox It's all about faith, buddy. If you don't understand faith and heavenly knowledge, then there's no way I can ever explain to you my beliefs. Once you understand that, then we'll talk.
WhyImMormon 9 months ago
and the dinosaurs?
albo181 1 year ago
@albo181 I like dinosaurs. So do my kids.
WhyImMormon 1 year ago
@ItsKnucklez You really think that is official doctrine of the Church? Since when did Google become a synonym for research? Lame. That's like saying your doctor told you to get new tires. No relevance at all. Lame again.
WhyImMormon 1 year ago
@ItsKnucklez Wow, you're way off. That is the most far fetched theory I've ever heard.
WhyImMormon 1 year ago
I love the plan of Salvation! This was one of the many reasons why i joined the church, i just knew it was the truth the right! :)
GiNbO91 2 years ago
The problem here my friend is that none of this is biblical.
Hosea119 2 years ago 2
Show me where it doesn't talk about going to heaven after death. Show me where it doesn't talk about a war in heaven preceding our time on earth. Show me where it doesn't talk about 3 heavens. Show me where it doesn't talk about God sending His Son to Atone for us.
WhyImMormon 2 years ago
The scriptures are true! and profitable for all to read them. Religion is a wonderful thing, where people humble themselves and choose to believe in God.
As you say, all of us chose to follow Jesus Christ and the plan of salvation. Jesus is the Christ! Thanks for sharing your testimony.
mormonanswerman 2 years ago
Why is Jesus not enough for you MAM? Why do you insist on a whole bunch of other stuff when Scripture is clear to point out that Christ's sacrifice on the Cross of Calvary is all sufficient?
topbon2ndvalve 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
I do believe Jesus is enough. I did a video on this very question:
watch?v=nfok18d9w_g
mormonanswerman 2 years ago
Liar! Mormon doctrine states that you need a Temple marriage in order to live with Heavenly Father for eternity, you also have to tithe regularly without fail and keep the law of Moses, how did you miss that lot?! Will a Mormon go to live in the Celestial Kingdom WITHOUT a Temple Recommend? Yes or no?
topbon2ndvalve 2 years ago
President Spencer W. Kimball said: "Only through celestial [temple] marriage can one find the strait way, the narrow path. Eternal Life cannot be had in any other way" (Deseret News, Church Section, Nov.12, 1977).
You mean you disagree with President Kimball? (I hope you're Bishop doesn't find out! It could ruin your Temple Recommend).
topbon2ndvalve 2 years ago
I watched your video and again you've lied through your teeth, you DON'T believe Jesus is enough. On the video you say that he died for ALL our sins then go on to say how we can earn that forgiveness. We can't EARN IT, that would be Jesus PLUS MY WORKS. You are so blind it's lamentable. Stop lying and trust Jesus ALONE!!!
topbon2ndvalve 2 years ago
We believe Christ is the way. He set the way by His example. We must follow it and live by it. That's called works. He provided necessary ordinances for us to prepare to live with Him again. They all happen because of the Atonement. We perform Temple Marriages to be sealed to the work of the Atonement. To become closer to Him. Christ's own apostles taught that we will be judged by our works as well as faith.
WhyImMormon 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ (Gal 2:16a)
EnigmasofToday 2 years ago
Which only means that by works alone you can't be saved. We need Christ to make it complete.
WhyImMormon 2 years ago
...brightness you've mentioned..
I mean, I've heard about the different worlds humankind should aim to populate in its exaltation but your talking about the sun and the moon and the stars of our solar system?
edgarrsoares 3 years ago
I didn't have much time to talk about that. The 3 Kingdoms are compared to the Sun, Moon and the Stars in their brightness in the sky. The Celestial Kingdom is the highest, or like unto the sun. Terrestrial like the moon and the Telestial like the stars. Make sense?
WhyImMormon 3 years ago
I had to make some research but now I see what you mean. Still it doesn't make a lot of sense.
It should be better not to spread the Gospel so that everyone made to the celestial kingdom.
And it's not that clear what happens if I deserve the celestial but my wife only deserves the terrestrial kingdom.
edgarrsoares 3 years ago
By not teaching the gospel to all, few, if any would ever have a chance to make it to the Celestial Kingdom.
It's true that a husband and a wife can be in separate kingdoms. That is why we need to both strive to keep our Temple Covenants so we can both be worthy of the Celestial Kingdom.
WhyImMormon 3 years ago
I've read that children that die before reaching an age of accountability (8?) and people who die without knowledge of the gospel (but would accept it if they had?) will be saved in the Celestial Kingdom...
edgarrsoares 3 years ago
That's correct. And I see what you are getting at. Why teach the gospel if you can just accept it on the other side?
I think that it is better to get the gospel here, and enjoy all of the blessings of obedience in this life. Also, what about all of those people that sin here, and wouldn't accept the gospel in the next life? Why not give them a shot here?
WhyImMormon 3 years ago
Hi,
I have to say that your example of having all the answers to the exam is not that good. You do have all the answers before the exam. You need to study to understand the subject but that's different.
If we have knowledge of the subject we don't need to study, or even better, we can aim to a higher level on understanding.
I've heard this example before in different contexts, but I don't recognize any validity in it.
I don't understand the levels of brightness you've mentioned...
edgarrsoares 3 years ago