Ken Wilber - How to Stage a 2nd-Tier Protest

[vajraloka1]

does anyone know if Ken W has commented on the occupy movement??

any re would be appreciatted..................­.

[SuperVinceism]

How about EDSA People Power Revolution here in the Philippines in 1986? It was non-violent and successful, but i doubt that our cociety is an "orange" one not even to this day. I wonder what's Ken's explanation for that.

[RyanDotTv]

What DVD is this from?

[jhgosnell]

@ismellaconman It's not just Wilber's opinion...there are many others who have come before him working on this model. But, I think he is pretty good at discussing these issues. Which part did you find off?

Adi Da was a mess...one I think (and hope) he is now past. He did learn one thing though, and so did I, you can be very evolved and still have pockets of major immaturity, immorality, and ignorance. The beginning of the end of magical thinking about Gurus.

[ismellaconman]

I agree. Probably threw the baby out with the bathwater with that comment...

[Jacob151]

It all makes sense to me..

[jhgosnell]

superb work. Ken is a blessing I think. i think one could take, say any biblical statement, and run it through the different worldviews and come up with 8 or more different levels of understanding the same statement. "Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life," could be handled very differently between blue and orange...then at the integral and transpersonal levels, even in another way. Keep posting these !!

[SimpolBarnaby]

Ken backs this: Simpol Adopters worldwide are resolving the deadlock of Destructive International Competition. They are driving governments to work together to solve global problems such as unjust economic systems, conflict and climate-change, by prioritising their votes for Simpol Pledged politicians. Developing and ultimately setting the global People's Policy is through open participation.

If we “parent the planet” together, there will be no one to complain to but ourselves.

[MrCuntyballs2U]

Godwin's law (also known as Godwin's Rule of Nazi Analogies or Godwin's law of Nazi Analogies)[1][2] is a humorous observation made by Mike Godwin in 1990 which has become an Internet adage. It states: "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1.

[MrCuntyballs2U]

Integral Theory + Spiral Dynamics = 2 wrongs don't make a right

[Itchhhh]

Eph 6:10 NKJV - Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord and in the power of His might.

Eph 6:11 NKJV - Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

Eph 6:12 NKJV - For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual [hosts] of wickedness in the heavenly [places].

[romance923]

depression

[CloudshadowMan1]

Ken has the courage to be realistic and flexible in this sometimes messy world. It was nice to hear him almost praise green for being a high level of development. He does not do this very often. Peace and contentment to all beings.

[1PostPoMoMaN1]

His War on Green is an interesting curiocity. I both love and hat this war.

[PsykodelikCyoldier]

its not the individual but the operating system they obtain.

[pingbong44]

i find integral jargon very patronising and annoying.

there is just one type of individual just with different knowledge base and experience.

[1PostPoMoMaN1]

Yes. Each individual has, though, developmental stages, both individual, collective and cultural and social and psychological, to go through. But each individual can exist at a level they choose to, according to integrally informed ethics. Simply being honest and wise and resourceful in any given life conditions is admirable enough. Surely it has a patronizing sound to it in this video, but it is not about patronization, but development, preferably to higher stages and safely.

[mannymolecular]

Yeah, I find it irritating too, but often this arises simply when we want to understand something and we just don't. I've been curious about wilber's work for two years, but haven't delved further than online videos. Maybe once we understand the AQAL thing we won't be as annoyed with it.

[hyperseauton]

Keep in mind that big heart/big mind does not patronize, nor annoys.

[MaBu888]

Not types of people, but types of thinking. Dynamic, adaptive intelligences. The color means nothing, and its the substance behind the distinctions that matters.

[mindrunfree]

Excellent Ken. I love the use of the term "chameleon."

[nonthere]

"theoretical evaluating of systems in the 21st century is obsolete"

I have a sense of what you mean by this but could you explain further?

[LastReplaySC]

I'll try on a humorous scale:

Watch the comedy "The life of Brian" to the part Brian is going to be nailed to the cross, while his Girlfriend runs to the "Front of Judea" and asks for help and action.

That is the sad reality of things.

[nonthere]

Saw that. Got it. Thanks

[LastReplaySC]

he's talking to the wrong people with the wrong language of impact. Those that it actually concerns are not addressed. He's talking to a bunch of corporate slaves that have never encountered what it means to be suppressed on a inhuman scale. If they were out of food and rights for 2 weeks they may understand the principle of effective protesting. theoretical evaluating of systems in the 21st century is obsolete, because we are in a fascist global corporatocracy

[nonthere]

I agree with you. Politics aside, these people are just flat out soft. Since the '60s protesting has become a social event for upper middle class kids. They should pay attention to what happened at Tienamin Square. I dated a woman just like these people once and she was outraged because I hunted. Wilber is right, though. When TSHTF these Eloi will get eaten alive. There really isn't any effective protest anymore. I have a coworker from Cambodia who can tell them that (lost her family to PolPot).

[slow90t]

Ken a brilliant mind,a big heart,a practitioner.

good luck with the western students.What 99.99 percent

of students need first an foremost is ,THERAPY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! transpersonal if possible.Then a teacher,who is willing to administer the antidote,which can ONLY be done on a one on one basis.Its a real messy affair.,with zero reward om shanti

[kurupee]

This guys knows nothing that gandhi,greatest hypocrit of our times was never a nonviolent revolutionist;just the contrary,people murdered in streets&he indulged his fantasies of enlightenments by meditating with naked young girls in beds,(bharamcharya stuff);blessing his pilots to attack Pakistan;flowers to Brits but blind eye to Muslims,he even said he would abolish all weapons after 1947;wake up dude;correct simple realities first,then teach spirituality to thy superior dumb whites hungry race

[pearharp]

A true product of Contemporary Consumer Socio-Psychosis. Ken is an infant study of a wake-up call crying out. In seeking enlightenment, he is a good place to crawl away from.

[ddj333]

He is not a "study" or a "place". He is one of the most comprehensive researchers alive today.  We all "crawl" before we get up and walk. Hopefully, we choose to walk in the right direction. Good luck with that.

[slow90t]

yea ken's so cool ,i dig the sunglasses.

is he an albino?why does he allways sniffle?

is he a coke head?whats with the goofy

color system,green ,red ,blue, is this the sesame street system for spritually infantile.

what america needs is a serious crisis!!!

i hope we invade iran and unleash WW3.ah that wiil really kick start the new age!!!

i can't wait!! start meditating folks

[mousepotato64]

Give someone a microphone and they will try their hardest to sound intelligent.

[psychonautx26s]

How can you say that when the largest portion of the YouTube community that is submitting videos consists of people being as deliberately and unabashedly retarded as humanly possible for the sake of attention and ego-fulfillment?

[atypicalguy]

So, is there a site where I can go to in order to understand this color system?

[duanebidoux]

Put in "spiral dynamics" in google.

[atypicalguy]

thanks

[kozan00zenji]

I believe there is an element of this that is true about the American and British system, hence the fact that the nonviolent movements by the Tibetans and Aung San Suu Kyi isn't working against the Chinese and the Myanmar junta. A nonviolent protest movement really doesn't work against a country like Myanmar who is simply going to ignore orange countries like the U.S. and Britain.

[aimjames86]

fun game. Too bad we are annihilated at physical death.

[l2lock]

Good lord. He is ridiculous in his errors regarding the historical record. Gandhi specifically addressed the Brits in regards to nonviolence resistance to the Nazis.  And as a previous poster pointed out, there *were* successful nonviolent resistances around specific issues in Germany that succeeded. This business about 'centers of gravity' is ridiculous.

[rbiro77]

he said Nazi Germany

[wysey100]

I seen one of these walking around the library today. Bald head, body builds, googly fingers. Freaky basterds.

[malthust]

Half brilliant, half mush. And silly Boulderites don't know the difference anyway :)

[donaldo22]

Mr. Wilber always on an ego trip...WHY??

[mickalene]

so yellow is adaptationist or when in rome...

[xanandax]

This would be a lot more interesting if it wasn't so wrong. There were, in fact, nonviolence resistance campaigns against the Nazis in occupied Denmark and Norway--including one in Germany in 1943 by the Gentile wives of 1,700 Jewish men that prevented their deportation to Auschwitz. No one became "red tank grease," at least not any more than became "orange tank grease" during Gandhi's campaign in India.

[abhi513020]

i want to tell reders that in a jaliyan walla masscare a british army officer ordered firing on harmless , unarmed civillians , the crowd was of old ppl , young , women and children resulted in sround 1000 death n much mory injured ppl

[abhi513020]

. the britshers never tried to kill gandhi coz they knew it , this will have a cascade effect on the nation and those who are in non violence will turn violent resulting in sudden crash of british empire . britishers were ( i can't say hw they thnk these days) were brutal mass muderers , they started slavery , rasicm , they killed millions of ppl to rule the world ,raped women and killed innocents

[abhi513020]

therefore orange society is a crap concept ! all moves are based on politics and diplomacy . if british would have thought that killing gandhi will be good move they would have definitely killed him !

[bringonthegoons]

Great stuff as always.

[pleadian]

what about solidarity in poland and what happend in chile? How low were the moral centers of gravity there?

[zibikowski]

I suppose self-pity is tied very closely to it. I was just curious if there was a connection you share with you death that other's you see don't and what brought you to that conclusion / experience? If not, well you seem very well educated.

[shakanunu]

Hi Zibilowski, I'm not sure I understand your question. "Death, self-pity, my conclusion, the intellectual"? You can't "taste" your own death. You can only observe that it happens to ALL other animals, so logic (mind) and your gut (emotion) are telling you it's gotta happen to you too. Could you clarify what you're asking exactly with reference to the terms I mentioned above? (continued)

[shakanunu]

I am not very well educated (institutionally-speaking), by the way, but I've had a lot of varied and direct experiences with a lot of different people and places, and have read widely. That's how I arrived at my particular conclusions. shakanunu

[zibikowski]

I agree with you Shakanunu in what you are saying. The real reason why I asked is about your terms on death. What brought you to that conclusion and hopefully it isn't intellectual? Some say if you really know your death and taste it it changes you forever. I suppose self-pity is tied very closely to it.

[dharmafl]

(continued) So once we uncurl our toes and get down to today, which what all that fear is preventing, then things get interesting! So, what do you want to with the only day there is?

[shakanunu]

A great example of proof that the fear of death/survival terror exists: PTSD. Ken Wilbur can imagine/believe whatever he wants in his little cottonball world of fantasy and mental contortionist acting, but I'd love see him use his "ideas" to cure cancer or save himself from a grizzly attack. THAT I'd like to see! Can you honestly tell me his basic premise on life in clear, concise, rational language? "The Wilbur challenge"! (I can't! It's gibberish.)Sincerely, shakanunu

[dharmafl]

shakanunu: are you okay? yeah, the fear of death is at the root of so much of our crazy behavior, among them the desire to put it off. But think about it: if you're just going to blink out of existence one day there's nothing to fear and there'll be no one to fear it. If there's an eternal hell then there's no death and still nothing to fear.

[shakanunu]

dharmafl, no, I'm not okay. (FYI). I want to live forever, but since I know I'm going to die, then I have to live for something worthwhile, and something good. Wilbur is NOT good. He's a charlatan. Looking at life from the perspective you mentioned is purely intellectual. I am referring to the emotional, gut-animal reaction to the knowledge/threat of non-existence (or eternal torture and torment) (continued).

[shakanunu]

Ken Wilbur is making life seem unnecessarily complicated, and I'm convinced that it is because he is just plain scared out of his mind; completely terrified of his own mortality, just like the rest of us mere mortals. *this should be my 4th entry :{*

[shakanunu]

Bye Ken,

I'm totally onto you. Stop making money with your pontificating and start using your brain to do something of real value for yourself and others (or not). Just please stop filling the world with more boring manure-talk.

Thanks in advance,

Karina

[shakanunu]

*see the subsequent entry for the start of my "thread", b/c it somehow didn't get saved on here*

To look death in the face and FEEL it is to flirt with madness. Once I reached that level of emotional awareness of death, eternal torture in hell didn't seem like such a bad alternative. I AM ABSOLUTELY SERIOUSLY. (continued)

[shakanunu]

Your too smart not to know that underneath all the blabber lie the simple facts of human existence. Understanding the meaning of life is so difficult NOT because there is so much to comprehend and it's so "complicated" or "complex". It's pretty damned simple. It is only difficult because once you understand a few basics, the horror begins to sink in and it makes your toes curl (and not in the good way:) and a hair's breadth away awaits the insanity of death terror. (continued)

[shakanunu]

Why not use your intelligence for something like finding a way to prolong life, improve the quality of that life, or discover the genes or whatever else is causing the constant deaths? That's a worthwhile goal!! To find a solution, one must acknowledge the problem. You are a scared little boy, Ken, who hopes that if enough people believe in you, then you can change the reality of life.

[shakanunu]

I warned you. The human mind goes to the lengths that Ken Wilbur has on a regular basis to avoid having to face the fact of inevitable non-existence. Sorry Ken. You're going bye-bye too, just like the rest of us. I'm afraid the tangled "wilbers" you weave will not succeed in exempting you from your unavoidable fate. (continued)

[shakanunu]

Beethoven, Newton, Hegel, Jesus (yep, sorry folks), Clark Gable, the Buddha, Descartes, Sitting Bull, Forster, Santayana, Voltaire, James Baldwin, Gandhi, Ayn Rand, "Lucy", John Lennon, Ted Bundy, Anna Nicole Smith, Audrey Hepburn, Freud, Thomas Aquinas, Caligula, Neale Hurston, Confucius, and Hitler (no, he's not in Antarctica!) are stone cold dead and worms have already finished feasting on, or are presently enjoying, the gore of their inert corpses. (continued)

[shakanunu]

Check out the guru people and self-proclaimed saviors and those who, like Wilbur, have an "out". There isn't an out. There is not an out. There is nothing remotely close to being an out out there. I guarantee you I would have found it. You and I and Ken Wilbur and Gary Zukoff (however you spell that dude's name) and Oprah and your cat and dad and mom and best friend and the guy who collects your trash every week....are all gonna die. (continued)

[shakanunu]

Go to the cemetary. That's where the proof is! Really! I dare you! It's just chock full of animals that died after they did all of the above, over, and over, and over, and over. Go visit a nursing home. You could even take a look at the "special people". That's the best place to look. Take a very close look at the lives of serial killers, check out the dictators and heroes of the world. Take the reality challenge!!!!

(continued)

[shakanunu]

The animal's body got bigger, the brain developed over about 20-some years; as this happened, the animal got better and better (hopefully) at keeping itself alive, at getting love and sex from other human animals, at doing different stuff it liked to do (hopefully). Sometime between a day to 100 years (revolutions around the sun) after the animal was born, its good old body gave out (accidentally or diseased or just got too tired to keep on going). Then the animal died. (continued)

[shakanunu]

It's perfectly understandable and perfectly normal since it's been happening probably from the moment the first caveguru decided to gather his clan around the fire to give a spiel on the metaphysics of savannah living or the aesthetic value of the budding cavepainters in the group.

It's unfortunate that most people remain emotional children their whole lives out of the horror of being independent and thereby having to face ultimate aloneness (the WORST of it is the dying part).

[happyseaurchin]

interesting use of terms to describe psycho social dynamics... we shouldn't use them as if these categories exist, but only as a means of describing, getting a handle on, and perhaps informing us in order to be able to better handle a specific psycho-social dynamic

i know nothing about spiral dynamics, but we must be careful to avoid putting categories before actual events...

interesting stuff ntl

[EricOerinToo]

If one checks all tiers of protest exist within the marriage bed and beyond.

[bellaragazza425]

One of the many 'Visual' explanations on Spiral Dynamics I love to hear! Thanks, Ken!

[squonkonguitar]

Staged, rehearsed, sell them a dream and ship 'em shit capitalist garbage.

Wilber makes allot of cash from this stuff.

[djrekluse]

Check your facts buddy. Integral Institute is a non-profit organization, and Ken doesn't make a dime off anything that Integral Institute does. His money comes from royalties, having written so many books in the past three decades. Don't project your allergies toward capitalism onto our work, thank you very much.

[djrekluse]

The colors, as mentioned, are from the spiral dynamics system, which is a measurement of the stages of development within a human being, particularly the stage progression of one's values. Roughly: Purple=Magic-driven, Red=Power-driven (egoic), Blue=order-driven (mythic), orange=reason-driven (rational), green=relativistically driven (postmodern), yellow/turquoise=integration-d­riven (integral)

[djrekluse]

jrmair- You know, you're right. Robert Kegan, Rabbi Zalman Schachter-Shalomi, Father Thomas Keating, John Mackey, Nathaniel Branden, Jim Garrison, Michael Murphy, Brother Wayne Teasdale, Roger Walsh, and so many others.... these people know nothing about "bona fide philosophy" do they...? Come to think of it, Saul Williams, Larry Wachowski, Alex Grey, Michael Crichton, Llama Surya Das... these people have no idea what they are talking about, do they?

[shakanunu]

Ouch and ugh!! Please do NOT compare Nathaniel Branden in any meaningful way to this fool's intellectual capacity. Branden is a bona fide homo sapiens compared to Wilbur, the chimp. PLEASE!

As Branden would be quick to point out, you don't gain intrinsic value by association, you earn it by BEING and DOING and SAYING worthwhile things in your own right. (continued)

[shakanunu]

Ultimately, Wilbur's ideas cannot be properly judged using his admirers, friends as "proof". It's a common logical reasoning error called "argumentum ad verecundiam" (appeal to authority). shakanunu

[zibikowski]

skakanunu, what prompted you to your comments and what experiences can you call on that verify what you are saying or your a point of view?

[shakanunu]

Wilbur is leading people on like gurus and dictators, and even entertainers (check out the Rajnish in WA, Hitler, Jesus, Gutama, Mohammed, blah, blah) before him, he's making bucks/gaining power and validation from people's need for a sense of security when all we are is a bunch of animals trying to survive on this planet(if we're lucky). Look around with YOUR OWN

eyes and see things for yourself. It's right there for everyone to see. (continued)

[shakanunu]

So few people ever become intellectually or emotionally independent enough that they can see every other person as fundamentally equal to them (Adler) that the world is what it is, and it's fucking terrifying/awe-inspiring (just look around for a minute). Sheep is still the best term for most humans. HO-HUM. The journey to finding the truth is quite exhausting, and the bottom line becomes: live for what makes you happy and allows your conscience to be at peace. (continued)

[shakanunu]

"Heros" and "gurus" and "villians/creeps" are just more people to interact with somehow or another if needed/wanted. Jesus Saves, Ohm, Allahuakbar, .....and all that jazz!! ZZZZZ. The people in these videos look like they are at a "make-a-million-in-five-days" seminar. Same breed. Same sales-gig, just upscaled a bit with the big words and names an......zzzzzzz. oops, sorry about that. Have a good life.

[blampow]

The colour terms are from a theory called "spiral dynamics".

[vgamez19]

Thanks for posting this...

[dionisio2007]

You really have to know his jargon to get the benefit: a problem when an in-group becomes so self-referential they know longer speak the common language.

[hughtub]

"they know longer speak the common language"??? That's the worst spelling error I've ever seen.

[dionisio2007]

Hughtub: Merely a common slip, & petty when you could have written intelligently on my actual content, as djrekluse did by explaining the color coding. I am concerned, not by KW himself, but by some (i.e. "some") of his followers whose eyes glaze over in unquestioning manner, speaking a new language with smug, defensive, superiority, without undergoing real development themselves. In the face of KW's undoubted brilliance some seem to lazily stop inquiry altogether in an almost cultish devotion.

[hughtub]

Oh yes I do agree with your analysis. I just happened across this and it seemed interesting how he analyzed the manner of protestability of a society.

[Nimzomyth68]

Yes i spotted that too. Maby he's not helping anything by giving these talks, although there seems to be alot in what he is actually saying to me.

[jaschaheifetz]

Valuable insight from a most distinguished teacher. Thanks for posting this.

[dairokken]

and a couple of you are idiots...bother to look deeper.

[Alphonzen]

"orange centres of gravity"

LOL, you people are on crack.

[pr0test0r]

You didn't think it would be helpful to explain who this guy is, or what the hell he's talking about with the colors?

[tednation]

I can never learn enough from KW.