Re: YouTube cheaters EXPOSED... could this be you?

[xdsolved]

dude wow u just discribed the essence of youtube i think u should be big on youtube we need intelegince ppl like u keep on goin .

[BailyBeard]

it's rare that I watch a video over 5 minutes, but I really enjoyed your videos.

you're very articulate and make good points.

[MrsSmicks]

GOOD VID.

[leighmyster]

hi your vid' total respect man im new to youtube well not new i been watchin vids on it for ages but new to gerrin an account, all these cheaters out there they only cheat coz there vids are shit pardon the language and respecto all the sameo

[somecallmejim]

I'm getting ya on this one. Thanks for commenting! :-)

[leighmyster]

hey its okay i thought this one deserved a comment yeah i only comment things i think deserve time doin so :D

[phaedress]

Whatever the purpose of 1000 accounts, as far as you-tube is concerned it's just more money in their bank. they just want numbers.

[sircreator]

AMEN AND AMEN!!!

[somecallmejim]

Thank you very much SirCreator! :-)

[xxSniperK2xx]

Excellent vid Jim. I agree with 100%, you have raised some very important concerns that I'd never really thought about before viewing your video.

[somecallmejim]

THanks for sharin that Sniper. It's good to know I'm not standing out here all alone! :-)

[AkewsticRockR]

^found it enlightening^

[somecallmejim]

Hey thanks man, and moreso, thanks for subscribing! :-)

[kate104]

ya know, i really like Renetto. i think he's a nice guy and seems to be a great father... but do you think maybe he was trying to get more subscribers? i don't know much about computers and even i know about IP addresses.

[somecallmejim]

It crossed my mind, kate.

I like Renetto, but I disagree with a lot of his views, and in general, find him fairly uninteresting. That doesn't mean I don't think he's nice. Your comment is well said and thoughtfully placed.

Thanks for watching! :-)

[kate104]

thank YOU for making the vid! i don't have a video camera and i can't use my parent's because i live 2 hours away, so i'm glad someone brought this up. i thought about that when i watched his video. he seems nice, but shady sometimes when it comes to YouTube. anymore so many people are OBSESSED with YouTube success. it's like CHILL people!

[somecallmejim]

I definitely agree.

Thanks for watching!

[evotelution]

thanks for your advice on the today. My problem is finding good content that is in line with what I value. The problem with the five star popularity rating is that it is artificial. You are addressing the hard questions regarding cheating....thats why I support a reputation system based on what we value and allowing people like you to police it, instead of the landord.

[somecallmejim]

I see where you're coming from, and I like it. Thanks for your thoughts! :-)

[parisiansock]

I'm with you

[somecallmejim]

Thanks perisiansock! I appreciate it!

[psyke930]

What if you create 1000 accounts using proxies? :|

[somecallmejim]

Hi pskye :-)

If you create 1000 accounts using proxies:

1-You have too much time on your hands. Proxies are slow and unreliable

2-The accounts will still obviously be faked, unless you have 1000 different proxies (in which case refer to point 1 in this reply)

3-Their IP would STILL not match the IP that Renetto uses to post his videos, so you could not creat 1000 accounts via a proxy and then accuse Renetto of doing it. Ultimately, the acct's would just be deleted.

[somecallmejim]

Additionally, my point is that there are rules against that, no matter what. Paul seemed to think there wasn't a rule against this, and I was merely attempting to correct him.

[yougio]

First off, somecallmejim what paul was trying to say in his video was not that we should turn a blind eye to cheaters, but that we shouldn't be so quick to point fingers at other. Furthermore it is completely possible to create bots that use proxies which basically is a server which you connect to which then connect to the site making it impossible for youtube to tell what your real ip is. I think you completely missed the point in pauls video. Although you had good intentions.

[yougio]

Also, renetto was trying to say that youtube should and would handle it..

[somecallmejim]

I really do think Paul is intelligent, though misguided in his approach to much of reality.

Thaks for watching! :-)

[turnermedman]

well said jim

[somecallmejim]

Hi turnermedman. Always a pleasure to hear from you!

Thanks for your input. I was afraid I wasn't making any sense when I was puting this together. I'm glad a few people got it. :-)

[ThisGuysTrouble]

I am new to YouTube, and my biggest complaint is the use of tags. I do a search such as "Jon Stewart Daily Show", and end with garbage music videos or others that have nothing to do with the subject.

[somecallmejim]

Hi ThisGuysTrouble. Misusing tags IS very annoying. Some People are so desperate to get their videos watched that they intentionally mislabel their videos. Unfortunately, until technology exists to find content in videos themselves, tags is all we have.

Thanks so much for yur comment. I can't tell you how much I agree! :-)

[nocowards]

good stuff, good points well made Jim.

[somecallmejim]

Thanks nocowards! I'm glad this video made any sense. :-)

[somecallmejim]

Here's the deal: I agree with you, 100%

I'm not debating that it's not possible to do what you've described. I used to work for a web development firm. I know how what you're talking about can happen. You are right, it is cheating, and it should be stopped. It would be possible to program some sort of blockade, and I hope YouTube will take the initiative and do it.

[coreymon77]

good vid. you are correct about paul, he does not look at, nor comment on, video responses.

[somecallmejim]

hi coreymon77! :-)

Oh well, at least some people got to see the video. :-)

[Mudhooks]

Exactly, Jim! What if people start taking your videos and embed them over on another website, "steal" your viewership in order to boost the other website's visitorship to the detrement of YouTube... Can't happen? Sumotv (see their dummy account sumotv1).

By the way, if you object, let Sumotv and YouTube know. They have already suspended their first account.

[Mudhooks]

Sumotv, by the way, uses phoney "users" who they "claim" are posting our videos. These are dummy accounts and by clicking on the phoney users name, it comes up as "nonexistent". I could care less about people embedding my videos on their site. What I object to is using my video to cheat YouTube and myself out of real viewers.

[somecallmejim]

Once again, I'm in total agreement!

[somecallmejim]

Yeah, the whole sumotv thing is garbage. I agree with you.

Thanks for watching! :-)

[klthh]

I agree wholeheartedly.

[somecallmejim]

Hi klthh!

Thanks for watching! I'm glad you see my side in this. :-)

[EdwardMann]

If I create 1,000 accounts from a LAN center or friend's house you can't prove I'm cheating because its not my IP. Where does YouTube draw the line?

I think his point is that there is a fuzzy line, and the minute you start pointing fingers, its easy for a witch hunt to start. A witch hunt is just as damaging to the community as the cheating, perhaps worse.

[somecallmejim]

Hi EdwardMann! (I knew an Ed Mann once actually...) Thanks for the comment! :-)

There's not really a fuzzy line. YouTube says that any automated process of favoriting, subscribing, or whatever, is against the rules. It's in the YouTube TOS.

I think YouTube should enforce the rules, and we should not have to do this. But they aren't yet wholly under google, so that time is yet to come.

Thanks again!

[EdwardMann]

I've worked for an online game in an enforcement role. Games have huge Terms and hundreds of ways to break the rules. When pouring through IPs and logs, it really does get very fuzzy, especially after you talk to the suspect. It also takes a long time.

Something should be done, yes. But it's honestly not as easy as everyone thinks it is. The time (and money) investment by YouTube would be huge. For every reason to ban there are a dozen extraneous circumstances to throw things into doubt.

[sneakypreacher]

Very good message Jim. Now if people will just listen.

[somecallmejim]

Listening is the hardest part.

Thanks for watching man! :-)

[tjbach]

hey Jim - I watched it, and I pretty much agree with you.

hmmm.. unfortunately, that's all I have to say :)

tj

[somecallmejim]

lol! Well, thanks for saying all that you did! :-)

[mc4bbs]

Many of these folks are great with multimedia/video editing, etc., but don't understand the underlying technologies.

As techies, you and I see this and understand TCP/IP, but that does not make us "smarter" then them... Many of them know a heck of a lot more about video producing than I do.

Honestly, I'd like them to remove the rating system all together. It promotes fraud.

[somecallmejim]

I've been very fortunate to work in both the IT field and the video field. I'm no stranger to the world of TCP/IP, believe it or not. My point in the video was not on how possible it is. My point was that Renetto said he didn't think that doing this was cheating, and I disagree.

Thanks for watching :-)

[mc4bbs]

I was actually replying to aggressive comment by "gazoo46" (above), not the video itself.

Thanks for your comment though! ;-)

[cpnjack]

I'm surprised it took us all this long to figure out why the top videos have been filled with nothing but garbage for years.

PS ignore Renetto, he's the Ann Coulter of Youtube.

[somecallmejim]

lol cpnjack. Nice perspective! :-)

[billybigun64]

WTG Jim

[somecallmejim]

Thanks Billy! :-)

[cffan]

Jim... The 1000+ gang are looney tunes. Seriously, maybe i missed the one that arn't.

[somecallmejim]

Urgelt's cool, and he's at 1200, FatDwarf56 went way past 1,300 this week, and VioletKitty411 has around 1,000. I think they're all okay. But everyone with over 2,000 are definitely nuts! :-)

Thanks for watching!

[cffan]

I'll check these people out. i may have really meant 2000, did not really focus on statement. I commented further on your profile what I thought of this. I think the comedians are the wisest here. Is that scary?

[somecallmejim]

Scary? You bet we are! :-P

[Terpinol]

500 limit.. another thing is that the best videos are drowning in cheating concepts. And if it wasn't for the people advertising them, then you wouldn't know about it. Many talents making really awesome stuff. The question is what can be done about it? Anyways, take care. :)

[somecallmejim]

I definitely understand where you're coming from. I'm not sure what can be done, except for making it known. Maybe public ridicule would make would-be cheaters thing twice. At the very least it would probably keep the honest honest.

[skibby]

I think you nailed it buddy. Great video response, keeping the debate fresh, and people talking!

[somecallmejim]

Thanks, skibster! I appreciate the good word!

[hippyhillbilly]

Very well put on the table. You sir are awesome. Peace & Health

[somecallmejim]

Hey hippyhillbilly, thanks so much! I really appreciate the kind word! :-)

[Urgelt]

I agree with you, Jim.

I'm not sure the community is quite as vulnerable to destruction by cheaters as you described. But for sure, it's scuzzy, and it degrades the community. If carried to extremes - and certainly some of what we are seeing is extreme - it reduces our fun.

[somecallmejim]

Hey Urgelt! Your view is always a welcome one!

I probably did overstate my side of the debate a little, but it was so very played down in Paul's video, I think it needed a bold contrast to get the point across.

Thanks for the comment! :-)

[Terpinol]

Be alittle careful accusing people and poiting fingers.

If people have subscribers that doesn't have any videos or profile up... is this potential second hand accounts? no.. because some people just want to watch videos, not be making them and be anonymous... it's a free world.

[somecallmejim]

Hi Terpinol :-)

I never accused anyone of having secondary (and tetriary, and so on) accounts. As far as my words on the Ska Brothers go, it's common knowledge that they use a refresher bot to create a rediculously large number of hits on brand new videos. Comedians who aren't funny at all don't get 60,000 hits on a terrribly lame video within a few hours of being released. Funny stuff rarely grows that fast.

[Terpinol]

ops.. I'm sorry I didn't mean you. Agree with you there. Just think that someone who has 8000 subscribers has no reason or time to set up fake accounts and manually boost their ratings by logging in and out, switching ip etc. This takes time. If it can be done with a bot, ok then it's done.

[somecallmejim]

First of all, proxies slow down your connection a great deal, and they're unreliable, ESPECIALLY the free proxies out there. I know, I've used several of them.

Secondly, the point is that so long as the IP of the registrant isn't the same as whatever Paul's is, there's no way to connect them to Paul.

Thanks for your views gazoo. You did make a good point, but I had thought about that.

[rchitec]

I found your response very enlightening and well articulated...while I really like Paul and what he has "represented" I too found it peculiar when he mentioned the part about the fake accounts...it was sketchy...anyway you are very humble...i think you have a great personality...take care...

[somecallmejim]

Thanks so much for the kind words. I truly appreciate it. Some of Renetto's quirks bother me, but I think he's probably a genuinely nice guy. I just happen to disagree with him on this subject matter.

Thanks for watching, and thanks for subscribing! :-)

[RightAsWrong]

Yet again, somecallmejim comes out with a great video. Well Done.

[somecallmejim]

Thanks RightAsWrong! :-)

[hellishacres]

I agree and you present this very well and thought out kudos to you

Hellish Acres

[somecallmejim]

Thanks hellishacres. I appreciate it! And a big thanks for subscribing! :-)

[DaleATL2]

i agree with you jim! 100%!

i think the ryanleslie thing turned out to be actual subs. he would just get a flood of new accounts and subs after he would request them during interviews or shows, etc., btw. and like you, i don't think that cheating either.

you said what i wanted to say, but only you said it much better!

[somecallmejim]

Howdy Dale. Thanks for watching!

Ryan Leslie was doing that, which I think is fine. But someone tried to frame him by using a bot to create a few hundred subscribers, ironically enough, names "bohemian"followed by ascending numbers. Like I said, RL was exonerated, but there are so many cheaters still out there. Thanks! :-)

[TheHappyShow]

GREAT video response! I agree with you, Jim. Why are there people making fake subscribers? That seems so hollow. -- Matt

[somecallmejim]

Thanks Matt! I guess these folks aren't happy with themselves, and make fake personalities to compensate. They need a dose of the Happy Show! :-)

[abigdaddyof2]

Wow! Great response Jim! I think I"m gunna subscribe!

Laters,

BigDaddy

[somecallmejim]

Sweetness! Thanks for watching, and subscribing! :-)

[insaneshayne]

...If the most viewed, commented, and top rated were flogged with people just pimping their own stuff out it would destroy the little guy. How are new people supposed to find awesome new users? Nice thumbnail picture! :)

The 1,000 subscriber thing is absurd! That would take weeks to do that! WEEKS of 8 hour shifts...

Great video!

[somecallmejim]

EXACTLY! The litle guys like me (speaking in terms of popularity, and not mass, in which I am far from little!) need to be able to make it onto the lists if they're ever going to get seen. And if Johnny Ska is viewing and rating his videos 75,000 shots in a day, how do we get our stuff out there? Competition is fine and good, but cheating is rotten!

[Mudhooks]

One of my objections to the "cheating" thing is that it is people with money and money at stake. What all this leads to is exactly what television has become yet another medium being commercialized at the expense of truly talented individuals. It also means to loss of the voices of hundreds of thousands of individuals to packaged, big-business interests.

[somecallmejim]

I definitely agree!

[insaneshayne]

Well, you beat me to the punch this time Jimbo! I was actually sitting done to my computer to make a response to Renetto and I saw that you made a new video...Haha, it is exactly what I was going to say, almost word for word. Of course it would come out a little more frantic and annoying if I had done it, but great video. I agree 100%...

[somecallmejim]

Well, they say great minds think alike (although, don't ask me how that applies to this, but i hear people say it all the time!)

I'm glad I managed to say what I did. I had about another 10 minutes of pointless rambling I edited out, I'm glad that what I left made sense. I was a little worried!

[robertmor1954]

Excellent jim you are so right in what you say, well said. later

[somecallmejim]

Hey Robertmor! Thanks so much! :-)

[Terpinol]

Amen, another youtube user cheating conspiracy theory trashed.

[somecallmejim]

Yeah, it's not a tough one to trash though. That's why I'm so confused that Renetto brought it up. Thanks for watching! :-)

[Evilspartacus]

well said

[somecallmejim]

Thanks so much Evilspartacus. I appreciate your input! :-)

[visiblemode]

Excellent points somecallmejim. You have a passion for the subject and you speak your mind clearly. I agree the YouTube community is a great one and one worth taking good care of. =)

[somecallmejim]

Thanks for the kind words, visiblemode. I agree, YouTube deserves to be treated kindly. That's all I want. :-)

[somecallmejim]

By the way, I sound sort of funky, as I'm getting over a nasty little illness.

[TroubleSquad]

Some college and businesses campuses use a single internet protocol address. This is done using protocol address translation. However, this is a minority gateway address assignment technology. Network translation protocol is used a lot more. Renetto suggesting a 1,000 subscribers ... is not thinking clear. Of course he could sneaky and want the extra 1,000 subscribers to get bumped up in the ranks.

[somecallmejim]

I thought about Renetto having ulterior motives too, TS. As far as colleges and businesses go, most with a single IP also keep track of the internally assigned IP's and try to log that data in the event that it's needed. Not all do, but the ones I've worked with have. If someone from a campus did this, they could still be found, and at the very least, it would be obvious that it wasn't Renetto, regardless.

Thanks for watching!