I know students who come from really good middle class families that have real nice clothes and drive expensive cars, but still get financial aid. Why's that not considered a scam too??? Its just as much of a scam if not worse.
It's sad, that top universities these days have a higher concentration of rich, overseas students compared to local ones. Worst thing is, these students do not necessarily have the grades to cut the mustard. Result: we're putting up with increasingly low quality graduates.
@comparecourses In grad school, I got treated like shit by my professors for needing a job, paid internship, or teaching assistanceship. The latter ALWAYS went to foreign students to cut down on the number of credits that they needed to take to stay in the country, so I had a full load, student loan debt, and no spending money. They also wouldn't let me stay on and write a master's thesis or give me letters of recommendation. My second year, they started giving me unexplained B+s.
@comparecourses One prof gave me a B+ and explicitly wrote on it that she didn't know what I could do to make it an A paper. that is a hallmark of incompetence. I did manage to cajole of letter of recommendation out of her after a bunch of refusals. Her main point was that her letter of recommendation wouldn't be that good because she gave me only a B+. Well, how would you like to know that one of your students spent the better part of a year in housing court because he couldn't find a job?
Once upon a time, the money that corporations made was invested back into the system in order to create industry, jobs etc. But those days are long gone. Corporations now hoard their money and no jobs are being created. The poor can't create jobs, therefore our salvation lies with the corporations. But they no longer wish to play the game. So I say we TAX THE F*****S HARD!!
We're living in a crap economy and many don't have good jobs or good money. The only way to get good money is to go to college, college needs good money, which few people have. As long as education is like this, we're not going to get anywhere.
College should be free as long as you are putting forth the effort and studying
Here's a thought, a single F-35 pays a year of almost 2700 teacher salaries, how about we realize that we're not fighting WW3, and if we were it won't be decided by conventional weapons, and stop trying to match the entire planet's defense budget?
What the fuck do you expect when you have a system that idolizes capitalism, fears socialism, and where you pay for your education? Of course this shit'll happen!
Social mobility (aka the American Dream) is realized by having opportunity, not a bigger awesomer target in the sky. Social democracy = social mobility. Look at scandinavia & Canada.
The state doesn't tell you what to do, the state simply provides you with options to help as many people as possible reach their potential. Makes sense.
studies have actually shown that the social returns of higher education are actually significantly lower than the private returns, thereby implying that higher education is not the economic 'merit' good that has to be subsidised by the government. by subsidising education, the government is essentially taxing everyone and lowering universities fees that would be very much affordable to the rich in the first place. therefore in a sense the poor are subsidising the rich when fees are low.
I applied to college in the States, it was acutally a lot harder because US colleges (at least the ones that I applied to) only allow a very small percentage of their freshman year to be from out of the US, some of the colleges would only allow that percentage to be out of state (let alone the US). Has that been changed?
@tommysch You honestly think we aren't pleading this with the rest of the world!?!?!?!? We can bitch all damn day the Government won't listen, and they also have the 20% that are crazy NRA who listen to propaganda that liberals are dangerous. We Want taxes to be raised on rich and obviously you fucks aren't helping by telling us be we inbreed morons who act like dipshits. We aren't the dipshits, we were just lied to and had a shitty government.
I completely agree with Cenk, in that I thought this had been going on for a while. I go to a top 10 university, and while my school is well known for its academic rigor and the love the students have for learning, some students here got lower grades, and don't even want to be here, but got in because they can pay. It's frustrating even when you do get in, because the kids from richer school have been exposed to so much more, and it's everyday's like a fight to catch up. I'm STILL catching up.
This is why I can't go to college right now. I graduated from High School last year and had been in the top of my class for my entire schooling "career". Meanwhile, most of the students who played school sports went on to get a free ride to the university of their choice yet they had only average grades at best. Sounds stereotypical but it's true. It's likely I will never go to college. I will be forced to work at a minimum wage job for the rest of my life. There's something wrong with society..
@derekxnl If you're at the top of your class I'm sure you could get a lot of scholarships if you aimed lower than your "top limit" of schools you could potentially get into just by merit. Yeah, it sucks and is unfair, but believe me getting into a mediocre college is still a lot better than never going to college. Because at that point any success you have will be due entirely to luck.
college is becoming the realm of the wealthy again...the gains made during the 20th century have been almost lost to the destruction of the economy by the wealthy
american colleges suck.. you have to take writing classes where you have to make 6 page essays...wtf my major is accounting i dont give a fuck about writing. worst suject ever
We are not humans, we are paper and numbers, we are a burden to all other parasitic people, we are hopeless, we are losing our humanity, we are without compassion, we are losing our community & society, we are being destroyed by greed & insecurities, we live in ignorance & denial, we are complicit, we are disconnected from one another, we sit in the comfort of distractions (TV, social status, politics, hate/fear/lies, celebrity, media) and we are enslaved to the system (money & oligarchs own us)
in india so long as yu can get admission, at the masters level, the govt pays yu to study... basically meaning that yu get a monthly stipend which when added up for the whole year is a little more than twice the yearly fees (fees that included hostels and mess)... the catch is that competition is tough, but not very tough. in USA everything is upside down
A lot of universities had their endowments evaporate in the stock market crash.Smaller endowments means smaller scholarships and bursaries. An average to weak school that discriminates against poor students will survive a bit longer than one that does not. I predict that a large number of traditionally structured colleges and universities will close. We just cannot afford it.
In my theory, this is how revolution starts. The great mayority of people are mediocre and poor, but sometimes smart capable are born poor and mediocre are born rich. If you make the smart capable capable people mad because of this kind of system, they will use the other poor people to crush the system and all the mediocre rich people with it.
The community college I attend is proposing a $12 dollar increase per unit next semester, from $20 to $32, and for next year hike it up to $60 per unit. fuck that.
I'm read a bit about this, and another angle is that schools want to take students that they think are likely to be successful (i.e. rich) later on, because they hope that they'll donate to the college. This usually means taking students from rich backgrounds over those from poor backgrounds.
There are all kinds of ways they do this besides ability to pay, for example, looking at extracurriculars, whether or not the student came from a private school, etc.
The rich have more opertunity to FAIL as well. Poor and middle class kids have ONLY ONE SHOT at doing well at school. Also, when the economy crashes because of these rich fucks and thier greed, the poor and middle class CAN'T AFFORD to go back and re-tool. It's discusting what these rich fucks are doing to the poor and middle class these days as well as this great country. We need a revolt!
It's unfair descrimination! When stores only sell things to people that pay, that's unfair descrimination! When the bank gives money only to those who first put in money, it's descrimination!
college was never cheap. However back before the government guaranteed student loans a college student could work and pay his college tuition. Now the government subsidizes the college loan industry and they can charge what ever they want because students are not directly paying for this.
Education is the pathway to competitiveness in a global economy. It should be heavily subsidized and I think scholarships and stipends for financial aid to promising students is the way to go. Lets face it, every A earning poor highschool student that gets turned down due to financial costs is going to end up contributing less to the economy and the taxbase in the long run. As for Rich B earning students.....They'll probably earn the same whether they get in or not...Old money sticks around.
Reality is education is the best bet out of poverty.. A poor person contributes very little to society comparatively speaking.. they are barely making enough to subsist and even then might need social assistance.. As much as Republicans would like to just "bury" the problem, it won't go away..
Poverty is a social sink of both money and people, the optimal social structure is to have most people in the productive middle class and in the long run education is the best bet..
In Norway, you can be old or poor (or both) and still study, if you need financial you need to apply for one, but that is national and up to each Uni/college as it should be. The more I hear about health care and colleges in the US. The more I think that the US isn't so great....
This is the way life is. Collge education is not free. If you can pay for it of course they will let you in. If you don't have the money you have to work harder to pay for the education than those who do have. It sucks, but it is just that way.
This is why I ALWAYS scoff when someone says that they went to an Ivy League school. I know so many people my age who were definitely Ivy League worthy but could never afford going to a Ivy League school. If someone is an Ivy League, it does not mean that they are smart. Most likely, they are smart and rich (maybe a bit leniant on the smart)
the economist peter schiff posted a video for obama's SOTU speech saying that public universities and humanities degrees that offered "no marketable skills" were the cause of the recession, and that people would have jobs if only they had a good education (presumably a science degree from a private university). i commented defending public education, and he replied that too many people are in college already and public schools should be discouraged if not dismantled.
Good education costs money, you get what you pay for. If people want financial aid then they SHOULD work 3 times as hard, they SHOULD work harder than someone who won't get a scholarship and who won't get his tuition paid for by the university. That's the whole point of a scholarship and why universities are willing to pay for students out of their own pockets. And then there are a lot of public state universities too which are far cheaper than the private ones.
This has reminded me how lucky I am to be in such a prestigious high school. Instead of my local crappy public schools that are in my district. Its the things like what these Universities are doing that only propel me to do better in order to give back and help kids like me get the opportunity they deserve.
I'm I from outer space? All of these practices by the colleges make complete business sense.
My suggestion is to start requiring, that's right, requiring college courses the last two years of high school. I'm fairly certain high school is a certified circle jerk as it is. Maybe student debt would be lower if they graduated in two years.
@radargab Capitalism should never take priority in our education system, whether it would be lower, or higher education. This is the major reason as to why the United States is so far behind in terms of education when help in contrast with the rest of the world.
Access to education is just class warfare. Rich people do not care. Everyone else is scrambling for the crumbs from their table. The poor and disabled get screwed. In other words - business as usual.
here in sweden, we only compete with grades, because everyone that can make it in high end education could have the RIGHT to go there... one of the good hings here in northen europe (we do have other problem with the school system insted, lac of teachers 30-40 student per teacher etc)
just saying it is some goodthings that the state pay the scool for educating its population.
@pay4cayray The US also has public universities (like UCLA etc) which are comparatively very affordable. As for Europe's higher education system, yes it's cheap, but it's also not anywhere near the top American standard. If you look at the World University Rankings (ARWU for example) you'll see that basically all the universities in the top 100 are either American or British. British uni's btw are also by far the most expensive in Europe, they can charge up to £20,000 p/a. Good education costs $
@passionforpolitics Yea, agreed a charge for education is in general more benefitial for the education system then the "tax payey" I belive personly because it has multiple reasons
1 Because it is the stundents or/and there parents who pay more than a the state bacause the state has an multiple intressted in where to invest money.
2 The efficensy of the system becomes better when the school itself is "motivated" to change policis etc for greater education and greater income.
This is a classic case of American Economic Myopia. We do not exist in a vacuum. There are more children on the Honor Roll (80% Avg. or higher) in India (not including china) than all children alive in the USA, Canada, and Mexico. In a modern economy innovation and science are required to compete globally. Every brain must be trained to it's full potential because like it or not we fall or rise as a society. If we don't smarten up we will be the third world country.
bs. the poor can get a lot of financial aid. majority of scholarships look at your income and race so dont bullshit me about "discrimination" in opportunities. its the middle class that get discriminated because they most likely dont qualify for financial aid and they have little chance of getting scholarships. the poor and minorities(not including asians) have way more opportunities when it comes to scholarships and college admission than everyone else
Americans act surprised when they realize everything in their country is a private business in a capitalist system...SURPRISE! of course that's a generalization, and Canada is not as awesome as it used to be, we have our problems but we're importing American politics, that sucks.
Man I've been hearing so many stories of pple getting student loans and after graduating can't find a job and can't pay back their loans. So this story kinda conflicts with all the pple who got loans and can't pay it back, so which one do pple want?
almost all of the top 25 colleges are need blind when it comes to admission. so this entire argument only apply to public colleges. if a poor students have good grade and makes into the top 25 schools, they will get a lot of financial aid. the discrimination argument is bullshit. affirmative action helps blacks, hispanics, and NA the most when it comes to top 25 schools. if you dont have the grades to make it then thats your fault. the system owns you nothing if you dont work hard
Public universities. They work for Europe... I don't see why it couldn't work over there. Obviously it's a little late for the government to obtain all existing institutions, but building new institutions with state funds is always an option and buying a few out could help too.
Most importantly is a state-run source of comprehensive student finance. Here in England, it doesn't matter how poor/wealthy you are, you're loaned ALL the money you need to LIVE on any campus comfortably and learn.
public schools have less resources. private colleges such as Emory meets 100% of your aid and its need blind when it comes to admission as most top 20 schools are. a poor student can go to colleges such as Emory for almost free. they just need good grades. Emory has a program where if your family makes less than 50k a year, you pretty much go for free. if your family makes less than 100k, then the maximum loans you will have in the entire 4 years is 15k.
A higher education for the working/poor classes has always been a struggle. My mom, aunt, brother and his wife ALL finished their college schooling in Sweden, my grandparents homeland. They all received FREE schooling, they did pay their own living expenses but they could of got help, point being the schooling was free and the level of education there was superior to most universities in the US. Single-payer health and education works, it's too bad the US is stuck on stupid.
It is disgraceful that america's colleges and universities are nothing more than privately owned companies/corporations out to make a profit. If that wasnt the case, why are tuitions so far? Why do books cost so much? Why do dorms cost so much?
This is why America has been slipping in education. They dont put reform where it is needed most, after grade school.
It sucks, but colleges are mostly private institutions that are interested in making money. As Cenk keeps saying, these are amoral businesses. Until the US government provides education like European nations, then things aren't going to change.
call me socialist, but in (most) EU countries it is alot easier to get good edu. 4 ex.
in usa u hav skool districts, rite?well in austria you can be from anywhere in the city and go to any school in the city as long as you have birth certificate , report card of last yr, and you pass a test, school districs are seriously retarded: it seems like it is designed to keep u from upgrading your status
In all honesty, college is a money trap anyways. Mainly the big four year universities anyways. They get these kids fresh out of high school, who most of never been away from home and have no real idea of what they want to do. Some don't make it and they're stuck with student loans. Then what make matters worse is a lot of places want experienced people with degrees, so overall the system sucks.
This over day, i went into a porche dealership, and wanted a car for 2,000 bucks. He said no and I threatened to sue him for money discrimination. How can it be that I am not allowed to drive a nice car just because I don't have money.
@bluefootedpig This analogy doesn't work, unless you are really trying to imply that education is a luxury product, and that its level should scale with your financial situation? What's the end result? I'd like to think that was satire.
@WigglyMalmsteam College, yeah it is. High school is what you need for many jobs, and it takes planning. How many kids go to college and don't get a job when they graduate? right now we have something like a 40% placement in colleges. Do you want to put up 15k a year for a 40% chance to graduate? Maybe if the students actually paid for the college, they would use the degree. I noticed that among my college friends. Those that got scholarships often didn't enter the field they graduated from.
Oh geez... I never thought that it was okay to take stuff without paying for it... Maybe, I should expect the bakery to give me bread by paying only half for it...
Competition for spots, not to mention the recession, makes it completely logical to only accept children that can pay their way.
This is America, where a lying, cheating degenerate can prosper and shall only prosper. And when the rich is selling out the poor they tell them to blame lets say the Chines for taking American jobs not the them selves giving them their jobs in the first place. If a rich man fails he consider to good for that and they will get a bail out. Because poor are only ones that should fellow the so called rules of Capitalism. They call the american dream because only happens in your sleep.
"You are discriminating against people who cannot pay for college"?
Well, OBVIOUSLY.
What the fuck is the world coming to. Its not a fucking charity. Its college. Unless its public they are obviously allowed to not let people in who can't afford it. What the hell is the issue?
@Hamhark98 Should we discriminate against poor people who can't pay enough taxes to fund high schools as well? How about middle school? Why is college a special privilege that only the wealthy deserve?
In the case of state supported schools, the poor are going to be contributing the taxes they can pay and still probably cannot afford to go.
@AKSBSU Public and State funded are different. Maybe I missed that part but private elementary, middle, high schools and colleges can obviously not let in people who can't pay just like a supermarket can deny food to a hungry person with no money.
I'm not sure I'm on board for this story. From my experience, the poor kids (even the ones with terrible grades) get money thrown at them b/c their parents are poor, while most (not all)of the rich kids have their school taken care of them either way (grades or parents). The middle-class students who receive help from their parents have limited help and those whose parents don't help them are in way worse shape than the poor students. The way they have it now completely screws the middle-class.
@darkness88ew If it's really as easy as you say for the poor to get educated and prosper, why does it so rarely happen? If the poor have little going for them and can gain access to education is so easy, why don't we see a huge number of professors who came from impoverished backgrounds? Very few of my professors came from low SES backgrounds. It was quite the opposite, actually, as many of my current associates are millionares or on their way. Your argument doesn't stand up in reality.
@AKSBSU I didn't say anything about their chances to prosper based on their upbringing (which I think has to do more with one's peers and area than their school, athough they often correlate financially) in comparison to rich students, I only said that in MY experience, the rich and poor left college with very little DEBT, while the middle-class kids left drowning in it. Someone with wealthy or middle class parents and a nice area are more likely to GO to college, not to leave debt-free.
@darkness88ew Very true. As a middle class kid, my parents had to take a loan for every dollar for my education. I was a white, B student from middle class. Guess how many scholarships i was allowed to apply for. You are right, and maybe that is why it makes sense. They want poor people to be educated enough to do some work, but they don't want middle class moving up.
Hey education is only for the rich. Screw everyone else. We want oligarchy, oligarchy is good. The rich should only marry within their families, keep you gene pool clean. Genetic diseases are a distinguished trait, even if they look reptiles (oh, that slipped out). At any rate, up with oligarchy.
Free primary and secondary schooling I can understand, not in the least because kids are legally obliged to attend. But tertiary education is not a neccessity, it's a luxuary. 72% of Americans do not have degrees.
Thing is you don't need a degree to get a job. 72% of Americans don't have one and only 9% of Americans are unemployed. Whats more, a portion of those unemployed people have degrees and still can't find jobs.
I don't want to play devils advocate but universities are businesses. Their privately own and make their money through education and research grants. Why are universities judged differently from an amoral company.
@tomitstube actually its the exact opposite. If you actually read the article its the private universities are shifting costs to richer families. The public ones are screwing the poor.
"some elite schools, including Stanford University, Yale University and Dartmouth College, that still have need-blind admissions policies in place for all U.S. students, are adjusting their aid formulas in ways that are raising costs for families with higher incomes."
@interstate317 ~ right... the wall street journal blaming public schools for "screwing the poor".
gee, what a shock. i knew as soon i heard wall street journal, something didn't sound right.
i went to a public college. YOU KNOW WHY? i couldn't afford, or get into a private university. florida and california's public education for instance have been usurped by corporate boards and for profit business interests. THAT'S WHY you're seeing the shift!
If everybody stopped acting like a college education was a necessity, these schools would no longer have the leverage to charge the ridiculous prices that they do. Then less people would need financial aid.
@UtubeMyAccountName the problem is, unless you wanna be a wage slave the rest of your life, working at near minimum or minimum wage for the rest of your life, it almost is a necessity. Most jobs at any level of pay that takes you out of the poverty line either require years and years of experience in the field or a college education. Most require BOTH, so yeah, it is kind of a necessity these days, especially with how complex more and more jobs are becoming due to technology.
@rlocke2 Most entry level jobs pay low wages, because that's all that inexperienced workers are worth.
I started at my job, at a decent wage actually, with no degree. When I decided I wanted more, I 'went to' an online college, and got an A.S. in business management. This was required for the position I wanted, and is the only reason I did it.
You do not need college to get employed, and in truth it makes absolutely no sense to spend all that money, unless you know EXACTLY what the gain is.
@UtubeMyAccountName i would disagree, it makes plenty of sense for someone to make a plan of when they want to do, or what they desire to do, and plan for it. get ready ahead of time, which is especially true of certain jobs. you want to be a teacher, you are required to have a degree, so you wanna teach you kinda have to have an education. There are many jobs that are like this, not all, but there are quite a few, and it makes plenty of sense to want to plan for this with determination.
@rlocke2 Yes, that's exactly what I am saying. A teacher, doctor, and a few other fields aren't 'learn on the job' positions, and it makes sense, no, it's necessary to learn beforehand.
...but that's simply not most professions, you will never learn in college, what you will learn actually working in your field. So you take a low wage, compensorate with your knowledge & experience. Then as you gain experience and acquire knowledge your marketability goes up, and so therefore does your price.
@UtubeMyAccountName and with many jobs having gone through college can increase your marketability, because which person looks more able to do a job, someone who has gone through college, or one who has not. Not to mention many "entry level" jobs are nowhere near the same job as the one you want to work, and have to go through all that work. College is just a different means to do all that work to get to the end goal.
@rlocke2 Again, you're saying the same thing I am. In answer to your question, it depends completely on the job. That's why they're called 'entry level' jobs. Of course they're not the job you want to end up with, that's a given.
...but you're flat out wrong about that last part. There is a very great difference between paying to acquire knowledge (schooling), and getting paid to acquire knowledge (working).
@UtubeMyAccountName have you ever heard of an internship, something that many college students are put through as part of there schooling. That is what internships are about, giving real world experience and hands on work to go alongside the knowledge you gain from college. It is a mixture of knowledge and experience that leads to better prepared workers. There are many jobs that can only be learned by doing, but there are also just as many that require some knowledge first to be successful.
@rlocke2 I can appreciate where you're coming from, but I've gotten a college educated intern that could not follow *picture* directions on how to change the copy machine toner. Pictures. Given the choice I'd rather hire a bright high school grad and train them in my field with an eye to promotions later as their skills increase.
@rlocke2 Someone already answered you, but I just wanted to give a little historical context on the whole internship thing.
When I was a kid an internship was something that business engaged in to acquire talent. if necessary in fact, with an agreement of X many years labor, many would actually pay the college tuition of promising candidates. This process created a financial burden, neither to the intern/student nor to society.
This is a far cry from what is called an internship today.
@UtubeMyAccountName "...in truth it makes absolutely no sense to spend all that money, unless you know EXACTLY what the gain is."
I don't think you're fully aware of the gain is yourself. Some of the benefits of receiving a liberal arts education is developing more effective critical thinking and problem solving skills and becoming a better consumer of information. Getting a better job or more money isn't the only reason to go to college.
@AKSBSU Which is fine, as long as you're spending your own money.
...but my point is about the necessity of college in getting a job, not your choice to acquire knowledge for knowledge's own sake. I don't think anyone will argue against that. Again, so long as you're doing that, on your own dime.
@UtubeMyAccountName Having an educated society is not just good for individuals. It makes our entire society stronger and more competitive in the world. We should have state supported schools that provide access to education for those who do cannot possibly afford to pay $15K to $30K a year plus living expenses. People who are bright and skilled enough to succeed in college should be able to go if they want to. We need to come up with a better system than the one Ana and Cenk are describing.
@AKSBSU If the education a person receives, does not lead them to employment, then that knowledge they have acquired is only a benefit to themselves. Which again, is no bad thing, as long as it was their cost alone.
Again, the reason schools cost so much, is because people put an undue and untrue emphasis on it's value. You saying that everybody should be educated, and everybody gains, without truly defining any practical benefit, is a prime example of this.
HARVARD LIN SCHOOL! GO KNICKS!
breenhill 2 weeks ago
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I know students who come from really good middle class families that have real nice clothes and drive expensive cars, but still get financial aid. Why's that not considered a scam too??? Its just as much of a scam if not worse.
kalijasin 2 months ago
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kalijasin 2 months ago
It's sad, that top universities these days have a higher concentration of rich, overseas students compared to local ones. Worst thing is, these students do not necessarily have the grades to cut the mustard. Result: we're putting up with increasingly low quality graduates.
comparecourses 2 months ago
@comparecourses In grad school, I got treated like shit by my professors for needing a job, paid internship, or teaching assistanceship. The latter ALWAYS went to foreign students to cut down on the number of credits that they needed to take to stay in the country, so I had a full load, student loan debt, and no spending money. They also wouldn't let me stay on and write a master's thesis or give me letters of recommendation. My second year, they started giving me unexplained B+s.
scottandrewhutchins 2 months ago
@comparecourses One prof gave me a B+ and explicitly wrote on it that she didn't know what I could do to make it an A paper. that is a hallmark of incompetence. I did manage to cajole of letter of recommendation out of her after a bunch of refusals. Her main point was that her letter of recommendation wouldn't be that good because she gave me only a B+. Well, how would you like to know that one of your students spent the better part of a year in housing court because he couldn't find a job?
scottandrewhutchins 2 months ago
@gloxkk Tough shit. It's not a right. Get a job.
SCE2AUX 3 months ago
@SCE2AUX How? No one seems to be interviewing.
scottandrewhutchins 2 months ago
@gloxkk Tough shit. It's not a right. Get a job.
SCE2AUX 3 months ago
UMD....
93boldaslove 3 months ago
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Once upon a time, the money that corporations made was invested back into the system in order to create industry, jobs etc. But those days are long gone. Corporations now hoard their money and no jobs are being created. The poor can't create jobs, therefore our salvation lies with the corporations. But they no longer wish to play the game. So I say we TAX THE F*****S HARD!!
If you agree, post this all over the web.
PercyCTV 6 months ago
Go USA! Keep screwing on th eunderprivilige with gusto, China will thank you later.
unabomberman 7 months ago
go hell usa
thekurdawari 9 months ago
We're living in a crap economy and many don't have good jobs or good money. The only way to get good money is to go to college, college needs good money, which few people have. As long as education is like this, we're not going to get anywhere.
mizkex 11 months ago 2
College should be free as long as you are putting forth the effort and studying
Here's a thought, a single F-35 pays a year of almost 2700 teacher salaries, how about we realize that we're not fighting WW3, and if we were it won't be decided by conventional weapons, and stop trying to match the entire planet's defense budget?
override367 11 months ago 7
What the fuck do you expect when you have a system that idolizes capitalism, fears socialism, and where you pay for your education? Of course this shit'll happen!
Social mobility (aka the American Dream) is realized by having opportunity, not a bigger awesomer target in the sky. Social democracy = social mobility. Look at scandinavia & Canada.
The state doesn't tell you what to do, the state simply provides you with options to help as many people as possible reach their potential. Makes sense.
MyTemporaryAccount88 11 months ago 4
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kingraver507 11 months ago
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kingraver507 11 months ago
doubley? tripley? ummm
tatertotter808 11 months ago
studies have actually shown that the social returns of higher education are actually significantly lower than the private returns, thereby implying that higher education is not the economic 'merit' good that has to be subsidised by the government. by subsidising education, the government is essentially taxing everyone and lowering universities fees that would be very much affordable to the rich in the first place. therefore in a sense the poor are subsidising the rich when fees are low.
Thongger 11 months ago
@Thongger therefore essentially the poor pay for the rich to go the universities. it's not as one dimensional as many people may think
Thongger 11 months ago
My wife and I were poor and both went to college via loans and grants. What's all this talk about poor people not being allowed in school?
odannyboy000 11 months ago
@MarioSMB3 While hes being melodramatic, you may be forgetting what story your listening to.
Hes responding to the video, not our past progresses.
Also, we used to be tops, yet another area where we are in decline
huffingtonpost . com/2010/07/22/countries-with-the-most-c_n_655393.html#s117378&title=Russian_Federation_54
Maybe china is running out of people, didnt they drop the 1 child per family rule awhile back? :)
waltermh111 11 months ago
mother fucker
freestylefighter123 11 months ago
1:25 :P
redz285 11 months ago
I applied to college in the States, it was acutally a lot harder because US colleges (at least the ones that I applied to) only allow a very small percentage of their freshman year to be from out of the US, some of the colleges would only allow that percentage to be out of state (let alone the US). Has that been changed?
CrystalEye736 11 months ago
To the the rest of the world this is so obvious: RAISE THE FUCKING TAXES YOU INBREED MORONS.
tommysch 11 months ago
@tommysch You honestly think we aren't pleading this with the rest of the world!?!?!?!? We can bitch all damn day the Government won't listen, and they also have the 20% that are crazy NRA who listen to propaganda that liberals are dangerous. We Want taxes to be raised on rich and obviously you fucks aren't helping by telling us be we inbreed morons who act like dipshits. We aren't the dipshits, we were just lied to and had a shitty government.
Hariuka 11 months ago
LOL 1:25
BattleProf53 11 months ago
This is why I'm happy I live in NYC where we have CUNY schools.
KennyEverything 11 months ago
isnt that how George W Bush got into college?
InfamousArmstrong 11 months ago
I completely agree with Cenk, in that I thought this had been going on for a while. I go to a top 10 university, and while my school is well known for its academic rigor and the love the students have for learning, some students here got lower grades, and don't even want to be here, but got in because they can pay. It's frustrating even when you do get in, because the kids from richer school have been exposed to so much more, and it's everyday's like a fight to catch up. I'm STILL catching up.
hugglesgalore 1 year ago
This is why I can't go to college right now. I graduated from High School last year and had been in the top of my class for my entire schooling "career". Meanwhile, most of the students who played school sports went on to get a free ride to the university of their choice yet they had only average grades at best. Sounds stereotypical but it's true. It's likely I will never go to college. I will be forced to work at a minimum wage job for the rest of my life. There's something wrong with society..
derekxnl 1 year ago
@derekxnl If you're at the top of your class I'm sure you could get a lot of scholarships if you aimed lower than your "top limit" of schools you could potentially get into just by merit. Yeah, it sucks and is unfair, but believe me getting into a mediocre college is still a lot better than never going to college. Because at that point any success you have will be due entirely to luck.
PrUnEJuIcEtHeThIrD 11 months ago
Don't some larger institutions have private donors that they use for financial aid...or is that for the more prestigous institutions?
djwaglmuffin 1 year ago
college is becoming the realm of the wealthy again...the gains made during the 20th century have been almost lost to the destruction of the economy by the wealthy
xadam2dudex 1 year ago
Colleges have long been becoming Financial Institutions for Alumni who are basically shareholders of the Education system.
Dayonetheone 1 year ago 2
If you're so stupid you couldn't pick rich parents you don't deserve to go to college. Be a bit more responsible in choosing your family.
disrxt 1 year ago 44
@disrxt so true, people bitching that "they are smart so let them in". You obviously are not smart if you didn't know what colleges were looking for!
Hariuka 11 months ago
@disrxt LoL good one
risalation 10 months ago
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UtubeMyAccountName 1 year ago
Free education is not a right. Get a job.
SCE2AUX 1 year ago
So now somebody won't be racking up 200,000USD in debt for a sociology major and this is a bad thing?
This is good. Tuition fees must come down. The only way it so stop having public money in the system.
romanmir01 1 year ago
@Krifko based upon what? You just hate the fact that most unis look for students with good grades not big pockets!
khanhogamir 1 year ago
american colleges suck.. you have to take writing classes where you have to make 6 page essays...wtf my major is accounting i dont give a fuck about writing. worst suject ever
XxChicoR3b3ld3xX 1 year ago
@XxChicoR3b3ld3xX "i dont give a fuck about writing."
Obviously...
If you can't write, I sure as hell wouldn't want you as my accountant. CPA? Forget it. It won't happen if you can't write.
SCE2AUX 1 year ago
@SCE2AUX I know how to write. I just don't like writting a 6 page essay.
XxChicoR3b3ld3xX 1 year ago
Only the Very Rich are considered Human in America.
halcyon0830 1 year ago 34
@halcyon0830 Only the very rich are considered Human in the world!
Adjei88 11 months ago
@halcyon0830 and unborn fetuses... but thats it
gr8z0mbiejesus 11 months ago
We are not humans, we are paper and numbers, we are a burden to all other parasitic people, we are hopeless, we are losing our humanity, we are without compassion, we are losing our community & society, we are being destroyed by greed & insecurities, we live in ignorance & denial, we are complicit, we are disconnected from one another, we sit in the comfort of distractions (TV, social status, politics, hate/fear/lies, celebrity, media) and we are enslaved to the system (money & oligarchs own us)
halcyon0830 1 year ago
glad im not american, im poor as hell and I get education here in sweden.
spaik007 1 year ago
This is another reason I chose to move to Canada and become a citizen!
Introspective91 1 year ago
in india so long as yu can get admission, at the masters level, the govt pays yu to study... basically meaning that yu get a monthly stipend which when added up for the whole year is a little more than twice the yearly fees (fees that included hostels and mess)... the catch is that competition is tough, but not very tough. in USA everything is upside down
taureau20 1 year ago
@taureau20 Wow, that's awesome!
harlemw651 1 year ago
what was the link or source for this publication?
player0092 1 year ago
Everything in this country is rigged for people with money.
darealdjnutz 1 year ago
Ana is cute XD
futurestoryteller 1 year ago
It's ironic that they used a picture from a school in Canada (University of McGill) in the thumbnail...
MonsoonCharlieHammer 1 year ago 3
A lot of universities had their endowments evaporate in the stock market crash.Smaller endowments means smaller scholarships and bursaries. An average to weak school that discriminates against poor students will survive a bit longer than one that does not. I predict that a large number of traditionally structured colleges and universities will close. We just cannot afford it.
Jaynonymous1 1 year ago
In my theory, this is how revolution starts. The great mayority of people are mediocre and poor, but sometimes smart capable are born poor and mediocre are born rich. If you make the smart capable capable people mad because of this kind of system, they will use the other poor people to crush the system and all the mediocre rich people with it.
greenaresfb 1 year ago
i love cenk..witout him tyt is nothing..he always corrects ana at the right times
khuang2831 1 year ago
lol u mad J.R.??????
toxzen 1 year ago
The community college I attend is proposing a $12 dollar increase per unit next semester, from $20 to $32, and for next year hike it up to $60 per unit. fuck that.
l3oss2u 1 year ago
Pause at 1:25...
georgewalker1 1 year ago
it is called privatization
fionamcampbell 1 year ago
I'm read a bit about this, and another angle is that schools want to take students that they think are likely to be successful (i.e. rich) later on, because they hope that they'll donate to the college. This usually means taking students from rich backgrounds over those from poor backgrounds.
There are all kinds of ways they do this besides ability to pay, for example, looking at extracurriculars, whether or not the student came from a private school, etc.
coopclauson 1 year ago
The rich have more opertunity to FAIL as well. Poor and middle class kids have ONLY ONE SHOT at doing well at school. Also, when the economy crashes because of these rich fucks and thier greed, the poor and middle class CAN'T AFFORD to go back and re-tool. It's discusting what these rich fucks are doing to the poor and middle class these days as well as this great country. We need a revolt!
VideoGameGeek1970 1 year ago
That's the problem with private uni.
MavenCree 1 year ago
It's unfair descrimination! When stores only sell things to people that pay, that's unfair descrimination! When the bank gives money only to those who first put in money, it's descrimination!
Houshalter 1 year ago
Comment removed
LIAMdeveer 1 year ago
If you're born in poverty, you have to work your ass off to maybe get out of poverty!
RadarKat73080 1 year ago
college was never cheap. However back before the government guaranteed student loans a college student could work and pay his college tuition. Now the government subsidizes the college loan industry and they can charge what ever they want because students are not directly paying for this.
dukee155 1 year ago 4
Education is the pathway to competitiveness in a global economy. It should be heavily subsidized and I think scholarships and stipends for financial aid to promising students is the way to go. Lets face it, every A earning poor highschool student that gets turned down due to financial costs is going to end up contributing less to the economy and the taxbase in the long run. As for Rich B earning students.....They'll probably earn the same whether they get in or not...Old money sticks around.
kgdblade 1 year ago
Reality is education is the best bet out of poverty.. A poor person contributes very little to society comparatively speaking.. they are barely making enough to subsist and even then might need social assistance.. As much as Republicans would like to just "bury" the problem, it won't go away..
Poverty is a social sink of both money and people, the optimal social structure is to have most people in the productive middle class and in the long run education is the best bet..
ddnguyen278 1 year ago
In Norway, you can be old or poor (or both) and still study, if you need financial you need to apply for one, but that is national and up to each Uni/college as it should be. The more I hear about health care and colleges in the US. The more I think that the US isn't so great....
khanhogamir 1 year ago
@khanhogamir But Norway has shit unversities (no offense) and the US still has the best universities in the world.
Krifko 1 year ago
I better start working triply hard because I will need financial aid because I'm poor.
KyleKJune 1 year ago
This is the way life is. Collge education is not free. If you can pay for it of course they will let you in. If you don't have the money you have to work harder to pay for the education than those who do have. It sucks, but it is just that way.
greglee20 1 year ago
This is why I ALWAYS scoff when someone says that they went to an Ivy League school. I know so many people my age who were definitely Ivy League worthy but could never afford going to a Ivy League school. If someone is an Ivy League, it does not mean that they are smart. Most likely, they are smart and rich (maybe a bit leniant on the smart)
velocity246 1 year ago 2
@velocity246 President Bush is a good example
greglee20 1 year ago
the economist peter schiff posted a video for obama's SOTU speech saying that public universities and humanities degrees that offered "no marketable skills" were the cause of the recession, and that people would have jobs if only they had a good education (presumably a science degree from a private university). i commented defending public education, and he replied that too many people are in college already and public schools should be discouraged if not dismantled.
these people are insane.
acrophobe 1 year ago
Good education costs money, you get what you pay for. If people want financial aid then they SHOULD work 3 times as hard, they SHOULD work harder than someone who won't get a scholarship and who won't get his tuition paid for by the university. That's the whole point of a scholarship and why universities are willing to pay for students out of their own pockets. And then there are a lot of public state universities too which are far cheaper than the private ones.
passionforpolitics 1 year ago
Ridiculous!
soad19152003 1 year ago
This has reminded me how lucky I am to be in such a prestigious high school. Instead of my local crappy public schools that are in my district. Its the things like what these Universities are doing that only propel me to do better in order to give back and help kids like me get the opportunity they deserve.
b4lish 1 year ago
this is why we need public higher education like the rest of the developed world
hannahmobrien 1 year ago
I'm I from outer space? All of these practices by the colleges make complete business sense.
My suggestion is to start requiring, that's right, requiring college courses the last two years of high school. I'm fairly certain high school is a certified circle jerk as it is. Maybe student debt would be lower if they graduated in two years.
radargab 1 year ago
@radargab Capitalism should never take priority in our education system, whether it would be lower, or higher education. This is the major reason as to why the United States is so far behind in terms of education when help in contrast with the rest of the world.
edeal86 1 year ago
It's a good thing I'm applying to go to college in Japan =D
OukaKisa 1 year ago
Access to education is just class warfare. Rich people do not care. Everyone else is scrambling for the crumbs from their table. The poor and disabled get screwed. In other words - business as usual.
menthol5 1 year ago 3
the government should step in and force those colleges to run their schools the way government wants them to.
VirtualBilly 1 year ago
'American Dream' hahaha... not true
POKEMASTERDAI 1 year ago
@POKEMASTERDAI
hardly ever ture...
nigen 1 year ago
here in sweden, we only compete with grades, because everyone that can make it in high end education could have the RIGHT to go there... one of the good hings here in northen europe (we do have other problem with the school system insted, lac of teachers 30-40 student per teacher etc)
just saying it is some goodthings that the state pay the scool for educating its population.
pay4cayray 1 year ago 44
@pay4cayray Props. Higher education in Sweden is truly amazing.
But you're still in Sweden. What is Sweden doing to solve the problem of being themselves?
radargab 1 year ago
@radargab lawl the problem?! xP it kind of an advatage(jk)
pay4cayray 1 year ago
@pay4cayray The US also has public universities (like UCLA etc) which are comparatively very affordable. As for Europe's higher education system, yes it's cheap, but it's also not anywhere near the top American standard. If you look at the World University Rankings (ARWU for example) you'll see that basically all the universities in the top 100 are either American or British. British uni's btw are also by far the most expensive in Europe, they can charge up to £20,000 p/a. Good education costs $
passionforpolitics 1 year ago
@passionforpolitics Yea, agreed a charge for education is in general more benefitial for the education system then the "tax payey" I belive personly because it has multiple reasons
1 Because it is the stundents or/and there parents who pay more than a the state bacause the state has an multiple intressted in where to invest money.
2 The efficensy of the system becomes better when the school itself is "motivated" to change policis etc for greater education and greater income.
State could pay more
pay4cayray 1 year ago
@pay4cayray
Yeah yeah, American students like myself are super jealous of you guys...
xinlo 1 year ago
This is a classic case of American Economic Myopia. We do not exist in a vacuum. There are more children on the Honor Roll (80% Avg. or higher) in India (not including china) than all children alive in the USA, Canada, and Mexico. In a modern economy innovation and science are required to compete globally. Every brain must be trained to it's full potential because like it or not we fall or rise as a society. If we don't smarten up we will be the third world country.
hassleoffa 1 year ago
America the land of equal opportunity and where people are only poor because of laziness.
Ahahaha, what a joke.
madax132 1 year ago
bs. the poor can get a lot of financial aid. majority of scholarships look at your income and race so dont bullshit me about "discrimination" in opportunities. its the middle class that get discriminated because they most likely dont qualify for financial aid and they have little chance of getting scholarships. the poor and minorities(not including asians) have way more opportunities when it comes to scholarships and college admission than everyone else
randomxxx10 1 year ago
Americans act surprised when they realize everything in their country is a private business in a capitalist system...SURPRISE! of course that's a generalization, and Canada is not as awesome as it used to be, we have our problems but we're importing American politics, that sucks.
limduul 1 year ago
Man I've been hearing so many stories of pple getting student loans and after graduating can't find a job and can't pay back their loans. So this story kinda conflicts with all the pple who got loans and can't pay it back, so which one do pple want?
superphi 1 year ago
almost all of the top 25 colleges are need blind when it comes to admission. so this entire argument only apply to public colleges. if a poor students have good grade and makes into the top 25 schools, they will get a lot of financial aid. the discrimination argument is bullshit. affirmative action helps blacks, hispanics, and NA the most when it comes to top 25 schools. if you dont have the grades to make it then thats your fault. the system owns you nothing if you dont work hard
randomxxx10 1 year ago
Public universities. They work for Europe... I don't see why it couldn't work over there. Obviously it's a little late for the government to obtain all existing institutions, but building new institutions with state funds is always an option and buying a few out could help too.
Most importantly is a state-run source of comprehensive student finance. Here in England, it doesn't matter how poor/wealthy you are, you're loaned ALL the money you need to LIVE on any campus comfortably and learn.
SkullXII 1 year ago
public schools have less resources. private colleges such as Emory meets 100% of your aid and its need blind when it comes to admission as most top 20 schools are. a poor student can go to colleges such as Emory for almost free. they just need good grades. Emory has a program where if your family makes less than 50k a year, you pretty much go for free. if your family makes less than 100k, then the maximum loans you will have in the entire 4 years is 15k.
randomxxx10 1 year ago
This just goes to show that the capitalism mindset should not be applied ubiquitously. Case in point--education.
jal247 1 year ago
Another reason why the United States is one of the most unequal countries in the world..
somalification 1 year ago
Comment removed
MinGophers 1 year ago
A higher education for the working/poor classes has always been a struggle. My mom, aunt, brother and his wife ALL finished their college schooling in Sweden, my grandparents homeland. They all received FREE schooling, they did pay their own living expenses but they could of got help, point being the schooling was free and the level of education there was superior to most universities in the US. Single-payer health and education works, it's too bad the US is stuck on stupid.
TheUSMetalhead 1 year ago
America's college systems need SERIOUS reform.
It is disgraceful that america's colleges and universities are nothing more than privately owned companies/corporations out to make a profit. If that wasnt the case, why are tuitions so far? Why do books cost so much? Why do dorms cost so much?
This is why America has been slipping in education. They dont put reform where it is needed most, after grade school.
downphoenix 1 year ago 2
It sucks, but colleges are mostly private institutions that are interested in making money. As Cenk keeps saying, these are amoral businesses. Until the US government provides education like European nations, then things aren't going to change.
kapgun8000 1 year ago
Accepting more out-of-state students? Where have you been? Mars? They've been doing that for years.
sonofsarek 1 year ago
Everybody just needs to boycott college....
SmartStart24 1 year ago
The Educational Industrial Complex is going to destroy us.
SpiritualAtheist 1 year ago
call me socialist, but in (most) EU countries it is alot easier to get good edu. 4 ex.
in usa u hav skool districts, rite?well in austria you can be from anywhere in the city and go to any school in the city as long as you have birth certificate , report card of last yr, and you pass a test, school districs are seriously retarded: it seems like it is designed to keep u from upgrading your status
Cookies4DaWorld 1 year ago
that's how i went to some of the best schools in the country.
hey, at least i'm honest about it.
ho2cultcha 1 year ago
Soooo that's why I got accepted... because I didn't apply for financial aide....
MyPaperBleedsInk 1 year ago
the wire that is all
Chriseycarlyeah324 1 year ago
in canada we have the ontario youth aprenticeship program to help students who need financial aid or have been disowned by a family member
TheCursedBanana 1 year ago
In all honesty, college is a money trap anyways. Mainly the big four year universities anyways. They get these kids fresh out of high school, who most of never been away from home and have no real idea of what they want to do. Some don't make it and they're stuck with student loans. Then what make matters worse is a lot of places want experienced people with degrees, so overall the system sucks.
willr786 1 year ago
Wow, I just had a guidance counselor at ITT tech tell me the exact same thing less than 2 weeks ago.
ksprad72 1 year ago
This over day, i went into a porche dealership, and wanted a car for 2,000 bucks. He said no and I threatened to sue him for money discrimination. How can it be that I am not allowed to drive a nice car just because I don't have money.
bluefootedpig 1 year ago
@bluefootedpig This analogy doesn't work, unless you are really trying to imply that education is a luxury product, and that its level should scale with your financial situation? What's the end result? I'd like to think that was satire.
WigglyMalmsteam 1 year ago
@WigglyMalmsteam College, yeah it is. High school is what you need for many jobs, and it takes planning. How many kids go to college and don't get a job when they graduate? right now we have something like a 40% placement in colleges. Do you want to put up 15k a year for a 40% chance to graduate? Maybe if the students actually paid for the college, they would use the degree. I noticed that among my college friends. Those that got scholarships often didn't enter the field they graduated from.
bluefootedpig 1 year ago
so not surprised it has always been like that
aylix89 1 year ago
The table is tilted folks the game is rigged and no body seams to notice no body seams to care; Gorge Carlin.
Of Corse the system is set up to arbitrarily discriminate against the poor how do you think the rich stay rich? They created the system.
darkblood626 1 year ago
Oh geez... I never thought that it was okay to take stuff without paying for it... Maybe, I should expect the bakery to give me bread by paying only half for it...
Competition for spots, not to mention the recession, makes it completely logical to only accept children that can pay their way.
Seriously... you poor people whine too much...
lilgaything 1 year ago
This is America, where a lying, cheating degenerate can prosper and shall only prosper. And when the rich is selling out the poor they tell them to blame lets say the Chines for taking American jobs not the them selves giving them their jobs in the first place. If a rich man fails he consider to good for that and they will get a bail out. Because poor are only ones that should fellow the so called rules of Capitalism. They call the american dream because only happens in your sleep.
Se7enBeatleofDoom 1 year ago
Hold up.
"You are discriminating against people who cannot pay for college"?
Well, OBVIOUSLY.
What the fuck is the world coming to. Its not a fucking charity. Its college. Unless its public they are obviously allowed to not let people in who can't afford it. What the hell is the issue?
Hamhark98 1 year ago
@Hamhark98 Should we discriminate against poor people who can't pay enough taxes to fund high schools as well? How about middle school? Why is college a special privilege that only the wealthy deserve?
In the case of state supported schools, the poor are going to be contributing the taxes they can pay and still probably cannot afford to go.
AKSBSU 1 year ago
@AKSBSU Public and State funded are different. Maybe I missed that part but private elementary, middle, high schools and colleges can obviously not let in people who can't pay just like a supermarket can deny food to a hungry person with no money.
Hamhark98 1 year ago
I'm not sure I'm on board for this story. From my experience, the poor kids (even the ones with terrible grades) get money thrown at them b/c their parents are poor, while most (not all)of the rich kids have their school taken care of them either way (grades or parents). The middle-class students who receive help from their parents have limited help and those whose parents don't help them are in way worse shape than the poor students. The way they have it now completely screws the middle-class.
darkness88ew 1 year ago
@darkness88ew If it's really as easy as you say for the poor to get educated and prosper, why does it so rarely happen? If the poor have little going for them and can gain access to education is so easy, why don't we see a huge number of professors who came from impoverished backgrounds? Very few of my professors came from low SES backgrounds. It was quite the opposite, actually, as many of my current associates are millionares or on their way. Your argument doesn't stand up in reality.
AKSBSU 1 year ago
@AKSBSU I didn't say anything about their chances to prosper based on their upbringing (which I think has to do more with one's peers and area than their school, athough they often correlate financially) in comparison to rich students, I only said that in MY experience, the rich and poor left college with very little DEBT, while the middle-class kids left drowning in it. Someone with wealthy or middle class parents and a nice area are more likely to GO to college, not to leave debt-free.
darkness88ew 1 year ago
@darkness88ew Very true. As a middle class kid, my parents had to take a loan for every dollar for my education. I was a white, B student from middle class. Guess how many scholarships i was allowed to apply for. You are right, and maybe that is why it makes sense. They want poor people to be educated enough to do some work, but they don't want middle class moving up.
bluefootedpig 1 year ago
we live in TWO americas
MTVVH1sucks 1 year ago
Hey education is only for the rich. Screw everyone else. We want oligarchy, oligarchy is good. The rich should only marry within their families, keep you gene pool clean. Genetic diseases are a distinguished trait, even if they look reptiles (oh, that slipped out). At any rate, up with oligarchy.
wanker89 1 year ago
Once again, as a European, I just have to sigh and facepalm at the success of capitalism in America.
Let the free market handle education and we get the self-fulfilling of "Americans are stupid".
underbjorn 1 year ago
Free primary and secondary schooling I can understand, not in the least because kids are legally obliged to attend. But tertiary education is not a neccessity, it's a luxuary. 72% of Americans do not have degrees.
spentfromnz 1 year ago
@spentfromnz That would be great, if you didn't need a degree to get a job nowadays.
SliferDemon 1 year ago
@SliferDemon
Thing is you don't need a degree to get a job. 72% of Americans don't have one and only 9% of Americans are unemployed. Whats more, a portion of those unemployed people have degrees and still can't find jobs.
spentfromnz 1 year ago
I don't want to play devils advocate but universities are businesses. Their privately own and make their money through education and research grants. Why are universities judged differently from an amoral company.
BLUEC0RE 1 year ago
@BLUEC0RE Because they are funded by the government
SliferDemon 1 year ago
cenk is right, this has been going on for years.
this is the result of "privatization" people. it's democracy for sale.
tomitstube 1 year ago
@tomitstube actually its the exact opposite. If you actually read the article its the private universities are shifting costs to richer families. The public ones are screwing the poor.
"some elite schools, including Stanford University, Yale University and Dartmouth College, that still have need-blind admissions policies in place for all U.S. students, are adjusting their aid formulas in ways that are raising costs for families with higher incomes."
interstate317 1 year ago
@interstate317 ~ right... the wall street journal blaming public schools for "screwing the poor".
gee, what a shock. i knew as soon i heard wall street journal, something didn't sound right.
i went to a public college. YOU KNOW WHY? i couldn't afford, or get into a private university. florida and california's public education for instance have been usurped by corporate boards and for profit business interests. THAT'S WHY you're seeing the shift!
tomitstube 1 year ago
Well you know, those school presidents need that $500,000 a year salary! how can they get that when kids cant pay?
janses08 1 year ago
This is one of the reasons why I worked my ass off to make good money. My kids are set.
Thanks America!
atlg8or6137 1 year ago
If everybody stopped acting like a college education was a necessity, these schools would no longer have the leverage to charge the ridiculous prices that they do. Then less people would need financial aid.
UtubeMyAccountName 1 year ago 35
@UtubeMyAccountName the problem is, unless you wanna be a wage slave the rest of your life, working at near minimum or minimum wage for the rest of your life, it almost is a necessity. Most jobs at any level of pay that takes you out of the poverty line either require years and years of experience in the field or a college education. Most require BOTH, so yeah, it is kind of a necessity these days, especially with how complex more and more jobs are becoming due to technology.
rlocke2 1 year ago
@rlocke2 Most entry level jobs pay low wages, because that's all that inexperienced workers are worth.
I started at my job, at a decent wage actually, with no degree. When I decided I wanted more, I 'went to' an online college, and got an A.S. in business management. This was required for the position I wanted, and is the only reason I did it.
You do not need college to get employed, and in truth it makes absolutely no sense to spend all that money, unless you know EXACTLY what the gain is.
UtubeMyAccountName 1 year ago
@UtubeMyAccountName i would disagree, it makes plenty of sense for someone to make a plan of when they want to do, or what they desire to do, and plan for it. get ready ahead of time, which is especially true of certain jobs. you want to be a teacher, you are required to have a degree, so you wanna teach you kinda have to have an education. There are many jobs that are like this, not all, but there are quite a few, and it makes plenty of sense to want to plan for this with determination.
rlocke2 1 year ago
@rlocke2 Yes, that's exactly what I am saying. A teacher, doctor, and a few other fields aren't 'learn on the job' positions, and it makes sense, no, it's necessary to learn beforehand.
...but that's simply not most professions, you will never learn in college, what you will learn actually working in your field. So you take a low wage, compensorate with your knowledge & experience. Then as you gain experience and acquire knowledge your marketability goes up, and so therefore does your price.
UtubeMyAccountName 1 year ago
@UtubeMyAccountName and with many jobs having gone through college can increase your marketability, because which person looks more able to do a job, someone who has gone through college, or one who has not. Not to mention many "entry level" jobs are nowhere near the same job as the one you want to work, and have to go through all that work. College is just a different means to do all that work to get to the end goal.
rlocke2 1 year ago
@rlocke2 Again, you're saying the same thing I am. In answer to your question, it depends completely on the job. That's why they're called 'entry level' jobs. Of course they're not the job you want to end up with, that's a given.
...but you're flat out wrong about that last part. There is a very great difference between paying to acquire knowledge (schooling), and getting paid to acquire knowledge (working).
UtubeMyAccountName 1 year ago
@UtubeMyAccountName have you ever heard of an internship, something that many college students are put through as part of there schooling. That is what internships are about, giving real world experience and hands on work to go alongside the knowledge you gain from college. It is a mixture of knowledge and experience that leads to better prepared workers. There are many jobs that can only be learned by doing, but there are also just as many that require some knowledge first to be successful.
rlocke2 1 year ago
@rlocke2 I can appreciate where you're coming from, but I've gotten a college educated intern that could not follow *picture* directions on how to change the copy machine toner. Pictures. Given the choice I'd rather hire a bright high school grad and train them in my field with an eye to promotions later as their skills increase.
ketowyne 1 year ago
@ketowyne lol, wow, thats pretty pathetic
rlocke2 1 year ago
@rlocke2 Someone already answered you, but I just wanted to give a little historical context on the whole internship thing.
When I was a kid an internship was something that business engaged in to acquire talent. if necessary in fact, with an agreement of X many years labor, many would actually pay the college tuition of promising candidates. This process created a financial burden, neither to the intern/student nor to society.
This is a far cry from what is called an internship today.
UtubeMyAccountName 1 year ago
@UtubeMyAccountName "...in truth it makes absolutely no sense to spend all that money, unless you know EXACTLY what the gain is."
I don't think you're fully aware of the gain is yourself. Some of the benefits of receiving a liberal arts education is developing more effective critical thinking and problem solving skills and becoming a better consumer of information. Getting a better job or more money isn't the only reason to go to college.
AKSBSU 1 year ago
@AKSBSU Which is fine, as long as you're spending your own money.
...but my point is about the necessity of college in getting a job, not your choice to acquire knowledge for knowledge's own sake. I don't think anyone will argue against that. Again, so long as you're doing that, on your own dime.
UtubeMyAccountName 1 year ago
@UtubeMyAccountName Having an educated society is not just good for individuals. It makes our entire society stronger and more competitive in the world. We should have state supported schools that provide access to education for those who do cannot possibly afford to pay $15K to $30K a year plus living expenses. People who are bright and skilled enough to succeed in college should be able to go if they want to. We need to come up with a better system than the one Ana and Cenk are describing.
AKSBSU 1 year ago
@AKSBSU If the education a person receives, does not lead them to employment, then that knowledge they have acquired is only a benefit to themselves. Which again, is no bad thing, as long as it was their cost alone.
Again, the reason schools cost so much, is because people put an undue and untrue emphasis on it's value. You saying that everybody should be educated, and everybody gains, without truly defining any practical benefit, is a prime example of this.
UtubeMyAccountName 1 year ago
@UtubeMyAccountName As long as high school diplomas are a complete joke, college education is a necessity, it seems.
RufousOtter 1 year ago