Why Counterinsurgency Fails

[55ella2007k]

@cortmeister: yeah... just saw your vid yesterday.

I'm pretty much disgusted with the way things are going :(

[justwndring]

Just wondering:

You cannot do any good as an occupying army in another country, but a government can (and should) do good in their own country?

What is different?

"What I want people to get away from is the notion that you can force anyone to do anything."

Unless it is your own government doing nice things for you?

[FeelFreeToArgue]

Interesting points. The main word is force, & it is not the reality of the word, but the perception. If people feel like they own the solution (whether they do or not) they will cooperate or at least not oppose it. It may be easier to view this as perceived legitimacy.

It concerns me that we seem to be at a low ebb of perceived legitimacy for govt in the US. I'm not saying the govt deserves legitimacy, but I am saying that anything can fill a vacuum, a charismatic demagogue being most likely.

[Dubsackjack]

counterinsergency or super-national government deniers swift remote death operation? what sounds better? I think the latter is better as most have infered an incorrect meaning to insergency.

[55ella2007k]

@cortmeister262 : hey, glad you're still around. The situation in regards to Obama doesn't look good, my friend. It's not entirely his fault, because most members of Congress are essentially bought off as well. If we cannot change Congress, all is lost. The 50 State strategy was worth a try, but it backfired in a major way. It's all about elections, not about actual policies.

[55ella2007k]

My imagination is not dysfunctional, yet. Great vid, Zach. Change cannot be imposed from the outside....it has to come from within. The regime under Saddam WAS repressive on many levels, but this war against Iraq has now culminated in the destruction of their entire society - even though Saddam had nothing to do with the terror attacks against the US. Over 100,000 Iraqui citizen are dead. Almost 4 million refugees. And now onwards towards further wars. It's insane.

[FeelFreeToArgue]

Americans need to reject imperialism. There needs to be a sustained effort, including mass civil disobedience. Our "leaders" must be constantly be shamed w/ questions every time they appear. Why are we fighting? Why don't you see we accomplish nothing? Don't you see the problems we ignore at home because of this?

Everyone must be made to know - the blood and money, it's being fucking wasted. It's being wasted so a few can profit, & the rest can go on lying to themselves.

[fckuvrymch]

im glad i got to see this.

i loved it.

[mogodbilealadamnbama]

To me, it's no different than sending missionaries to S. America- except these missionaries have guns.

The individual soldier/missionary may well have good intentions, but what if the recipients of all this "good will" don't actually want it?

Saddam was a cruel dictator who killed dissenters. Assuming that's true, how are we any different?

Liberation my ass! More like forced incorporation, IMHO.

[tdubulious]

@neotoy

WW1, WW2, and the Koreon war were all great successes simply because we went in, did our buisness, and got the hell out. Threw private contractors we helped rebuild and created good diplomatic relations with them. All while not occupying their country. If you look at the similarities on how those wars were carried out then it's quite easy to see where we're going wrong today. If you compare the currant wars with the Vietnam war you will find a striking similarity. Great vid Zach.

[neotoy]

I partially disagree. I think it's possible to occupy a country and make improvements, but for that to happen the circumstances have to be absolutely ideal. It's not impossible to win over the "natives" and turn them against the insurgency..

But achieving this requires absolute mastery of language, culture, media, and complete integrity and intelligence on behalf of the "invaders" and their mission.

Something our military could never hope to pull off in a million years.

[FeelFreeToArgue]

I agree about it being possible to make improvements - the point is more that you can't do it while you occupy a country. People's anger about the unfairness of occupation, their feeling of having their will short circuited, manifests as a symbolic liability carried by all good works. The greater the anger at the occupation, the more likely any symbol of that occupation will be to be regarded as suspect by the "client population," regardless of how ostensibly benign its purpose.

[magichandpuppet]

well put, Zach! cheers!

[FeelFreeToArgue]

Good to hear from you!

You have to parse Obama as carefully as Clinton - and that's saying something. What I notice about Obama's statements on Iraq is he always talks about "combat" troops. Now, if people are advisors, or training police, or maintaining an existing facility, they're probably outside that definition. Ditto private contractors, also not combat troops. Now add in our embassy the size of the Vatican, our ships in the Persian Gulf & air power. Does that feel like a withdrawal?

[LouieArrighi]

great vid. some can't understand this, especially on the right.

[rollerpodger]

another good one Zach! - I have one counter point that makes things a little more complicated and elaborates; I will fit it in on the next vid I do because it is on subject of what I will be talking about anyway cheers n take care

[yadranko]

Great point, thank you!

[onlywhenprovoked]

brilliant video. much respect.

[onlywhenprovoked]

chilling excerpt.

[OlGreyWolf58]

Exactly. You also see this happening in the Gaza, but to a greater degree.

[highway234]

you've done some good videos, but this is your best so far. searching, careful, thoughtful, and courageously true. i'm glad i subscribed to you.

[FeelFreeToArgue]

Thank you. This one has been brewing in my head for a while - maybe that helps.

[imjustagirl776]

"He's got too many fingers in too many pies..." ~Devil's Advocate

[valhala56]

Poor dumb Iraq Bastards. Don't even know how to be bought off with Schools, sewers, fire stations. The Iraq's don't even get the irony that a bankrupt nation "US" is buying them all this cool stuff. At least they might let us have a little of the Oil, maybe.

[tyrbolo]

LOL How much of your life and circumstance did

you choose ??

The reason why separate cultures don't get along

is because the motivations of either side look like

insanity when examined.

We can do away with insurgency in Iraq by becoming Saddam and acting in a fashion

they clearly understand. This has clear and

nasty ramifications for us if we do it.

We cannot become a middle eastern oriental style despotism, but the danger to us is there

in this situation.

[FeelFreeToArgue]

This is a place where I'm very comfortable talking about perception as reality, because people will act on their perceptions as if real. All I'm saying is that people will regard anything imposed by an aggressive, outside power as a tangible manifestation of that power - regardless of what ostensible purpose it supposed to serve. It can be intended to serve the very people who end up destroying it, doesn't matter. Everything an occupier builds is first & foremost a symbol of the occupation.

[tyrbolo]

Every person has a unique viewpoint, the desire

to superimpose it on everything is perfectly acceptable. Within the realm of international

politics it is quite dangerous to do so.

The whole "war on terror" is so ridiculously out

of whack and counterproductive it makes an

intelligent person want to scream with outrage.

The real repercussions are going to make some eyes water in a lot of areas.

[Capitalocracy]

Self-determination is one of the most important factors in human existence, people literally go crazy when they don't have it, and their response isn't always what you would consider "rational"... like the tea partiers. If their complaint is that the people of the U.S. have no voice in politics, that's legitimate, but if their solution is continued deregulation and not complaining about money's influence on politics, well there's one thing they can win on but they still won't have a voice

[timeofwonder2009]

Well. I do not think that imposing a new strategy after an overthrow always needs to end in a disaster like in Iraq, but once it has happened there is not much one can do. Pulling out is probably a more than viable option. The same is true for Afghanistan. In Germany there is a growing resistance against that occupation ...

[FeelFreeToArgue]

@timeofwonder2009 I did a vid once on how we could've "won" the Iraq War, accepting for a moment the false assumption that the war was inevitable. It was very close to what I'm saying here - stabilizing the country quickly, paying special attention to national treasures & important govt buildings, a rapid withdrawal of all our forces and an immediate & unqualified apology to the Iraqi people for invading their country under false pretenses, and significant reparations.

[FeelFreeToArgue]

@FeelFreeToArgue As noxious as that answer would've been to the American people, it would've cost far less than the unsuccessful occupation of Iraq, resulted in far less damage to the country & fewer deaths all around, & would've garnered us a lot of respect in the Muslim world - which is how you actually weaken the people we're fighting.

The US reaction in Iraq was EXACTLY what Osama bin Laden wanted us to do in response to 9/11. He wanted us to dramatically show our unfairness. - score!

[timeofwonder2009]

I fully agree. As usual, for a former non-resident alien it is very much relieving to see that dissenting opinions (on the side of sanity that is) still exist in the US. BTW, a book on that topic I really much enjoyed reading (whereas the topic itself is dreadful) was "Imperial life in the Emerald City". A real eye opener about the US occupation of Iraq.

[MiranUT]

The occupation is not just about giving handouts. Chris Hedges also did a long piece for The Nation on US soldiers conduct in Iraq and their interaction with Iraqi's. It's online - July 9, 2007: The Other War and Iraq Vets Bear Witness. From what I've read, it seems that troops in Afghanistan have used the same tactics as in Iraq. Makes my stomach churn. It's hard for me to NOT empathize with Iraqi's and Afghans.

Thanks, Zach, for showing me that some Americans still have a heart.

[MiranUT]

With all due respect - our lives are all about choice. I can only think of some illnesses that aren't. And then, we still choose how to react to it. Interestingly, once I realized this, not much bad happens to me.

The reason why cultures don't get along is because they don't make an effort to understand the other's point of view. US culture has so little foundation for facilitating this....

[MiranUT]

cont (the above was for tyrbolo)

This blew me away: at my son's public, Japanese elementary school, 30 times a year, for one hour, a person from a different country comes into the classroom and teaches the students about their culture -- in English. I love it when he comes home to tell me about what he learned. I feel lucky that he has such a class.