We have been lied to and many things we are taught have been lies and are not even in Scripture. If you are a truth seeker then check out the site in my user name and listen to the audio there. You will be shocked and you will come away asking many questions. Thanks
I read most of these comments and respond that a man must be born again or he cannot see the kindgom of God. That is why most of you don`t know what you are talking about
hahaha im pagan alright but ill be the first to admit.... that dudes got a creepy voice! lol i mean sure hes making points and trying to be serious and stuff but all i can think is... Am i gonna get raped or something? hahahahahaha
@RebelAllianceMedia hahah i know i just thought id mess with ya man hahaha but yeah you made a lot of good points in the video. i noticed actually a reason that the christians probably did this was to make conversion easier. oddly enough it worked for a time but more and more people are converting back to the old ways which i find interesting.
This is why God did not want them marrying or living together with gentiles because they would pick up their customs and traditions and easter and christmas are pagan people need to do some of their own research stop taking what is told to you at face value look it up for yourself
but you cant tell these ppl anything there slaves to there religons but the book dosent speak of any of these things, you show them in there book how its wrong and they still dont listen im not knocking the bible im a fan or should say a follower but these religons go directly against the book. jus stick to the book but christanty as a whole is trash and has nothing to do with the bible christmas easter sunday worship not in the book
@silvermoon9595. You do not understand the Christian faith!! If you did you would not be a practicing witch. To understand something is to come into an agreement with it. Your are filled with lies and the truth is not in you!!!! All of your comments regardless of how sincere you try to come across are deceptive at best.
The narrator sounds SO STONED!!! It would be better to practice quoting your sources than repeatedly trying to convince us how smart you are. Absolutely nothing new in this video - you are just babbling back what you've heard elsewhere & without quoting sources.
@RebelAllianceMedia I know this...so while you are assuming that I was saying there wasn't...MAYBE you should read all the comments I made. I don't even remember what i said, but I know "Christianity" is full of paganism. That's why I HATE religion, BUT..I do believe in Jehovah/ Yahweh and I believe in Jesus Christ..and The Bible! So what exactly is it that you think I need to learn??? LOL
i am not trying to change ur beliefs if u r living ur life in a positive way & ur faith makes u happy than thank you very much i hope u will always smile & be positive to all. heck even if u dont have faith if u r happy & r living in a positive way keep smiling & pass on that happyness. my blessings are for everyone idc what u believe in. i am a witch i have studied other faiths besides my own kind & i believe that no matter what r faith we r all born equal. so to every1 Blessed Be& thank u
so i see no point in all this fighting i will not fight on any side. i am a witch but i will stand up for what is right fighting over others faith is wrong! you should either
1. make peace
or 2. keep away from each other.
meaning pagans if u dont like christian things dont look them up & same goes for u christians.
christian's God wouldnt want you to act in such a way & u know that if u read the bible, he just wants man kind to get along & pagans would the goddess b proud of u doin this
ALL RIGHT I HAD ABOUT IT UP TO MY HEAD WITH THIS!!!!!!!
I PRACTICE WITCHCRAFT OKAY & I LOVE HEARING THINGS ABOUT MY FAITH BUT THIS IM PAGAN SO ILL HATE ON CHRISTIAN'S & IM CHRISTIAN SO I NEED TO HATE ON PAGAN'S THING NEEDS TO STOP!!!!
All of you pagan's follow the rede an ye harm none do what ye will. & u christian's i learned & understand ur faith i respect it, the bible says do on to others as you would have do onto you. the bible also said that God has many manchens (homes)
If we truly read and adhered ONLY to the Scriptures we would see these vain traditions are not only in 'christianity' but rampant in 'judaism' and these two are the parents of the 'messianics' with their traditions.
Vain traditions are in ALL assemblies so let us all personally read and heed the warning from the true Messiah in Matt 7:1-29.
Vain traditons = Adding to the Word = LIAR.
"Every Word of Eloah is refined ... Add not against His Word lest be a convicted liar." (Proverbs 30:5,6)
The first symbol is not a cross.... It's a Ankh Ancient Egyptian symbol of life, fertility and the union of male and female. It appears frequently in Egyptian writings about resurrection and is sometimes referred to as the Key of the Nile. In the Wiccan/Neopagan traditions, the Ankh is often used as a symbol of immortality and completion.
the swastika that you are talking about was actually called the ANCIENT SWASTIKA which originated with the Persian kings or achemed empire under cyres the great or darius the great. who ever freed the jews from the babylonian empire slavery. This was also apart of the INDO ARYAN MIGRATIONS which is where hitler made most of his propaganda from. Also this proves that the hebrews are also indo aryan because they migrated from babylon with the first INDO AYRANS which are the persian kings.
@thebuttascotchbro1-the jehovahs witnesses use the pagan symbol of the watchtower,and their old books have the winged disk symbol,and the knights templar cross and crown,if your going to follow a faith,its very important to explore the roots--a tree is only as strong as its roots-charles taze russel was fond of freemasonary,it was in his writings.jehovahs witnesses are wacked out.
(John 15:17-19) 17 “These things I command YOU, that YOU love one another. 18 If the world hates YOU, YOU know that it has hated me before it hated YOU. 19 If YOU were part of the world, the world would be fond of what is its own. Now because YOU are no part of the world, but I have chosen YOU out of the world, on this account the world hates YOU. . .
Well a lot of religions like Christianity and many others that exist today stole from older religions like ancient Egyptian religions and many others. A lot of historians have done their best to cover and rewrite history to cover the truth because they are worried about Christianity going under if people were to ever find out what they really worship. As long as you find the truth out for yourself and set yourself free that is the important part.
@grownman455 real christian don't follow pagan roots..the Catholics and the Baptist and all so called christian have pagan roots..but the Jehovah witness don't..that's why I left the church...these so called holidays are pagan..and when I tell people I get I know Jesus was not born on 25 of December it's tradition..but it's pagan tradition..not Gods.. and not scriptural..
Interesting....But U should be telling how the Christians adapted the cross...."The Story with Constatinopel and the pagens entering Christianity, how they brought in their cross from Pagan belief"....good work kid, U just need to sound more lively
16 A godly life frees us from the often burdensome celebrating of worldly holidays. For instance, the Bible does not reveal the exact day of Jesus’ birth. ‘I thought Jesus was born on December 25!’ some may exclaim. This is not possible because he died in the spring of 33 C.E. at 33 1/2 years of age. Moreover, at the time of his birth, shepherds were “living out of doors and keeping watches in the night over their flocks.”
(Luke 2:8) In the land of Israel, late December is a cold, rainy season during which sheep would be kept in shelters overnight to protect them from the winter weather. Actually, December 25 was set aside by the Romans as the birthday of their sun god. Centuries after Jesus was on earth, apostate Christians adopted this date for the celebration of Christ’s birth.
correct...No where in the Bible it is stated what date Jesus was born....The date 25th of December is a pagan date for their Sun gods birthday. I feel pity for the billions of Christians who are deluded and kept Dumb....but again blame urself, cause all the information is on internet....READ and get knowledge
@bigmac19751234 AH NAW WE GOOD I DID WHAT HALF OF THOSE WHO CALL THEMSELVES CHRISTIAN..DO I WASN'T PAYING ATTENTION THEN I WENT BACK TO READ THEN I GOT YOU POINT...GOOD POINT..ALL OF THE WORLDLY HOLIDAYS ARE ALL PAGAN...JESUS SAID TO CELEBRATE HIS DEATH..AND THAT'S IT..AND NO PEOPLE EASTER TAINT IT..
correct...No where in the Bible it is stated what date Jesus was born....The date 25th of December is a pagan date for their Sun gods birthday. I feel pity for the billions of Christians who are deluded and kept Dumb....but again blame urself, cause all the information is on internet....READ and get knowledge
Consequently, true Christians do not celebrate Christmas or any other holiday based on false religious beliefs. Because they give Jehovah exclusive devotion, they also do not observe holidays that idolize sinful humans or nations.
Hey there. Thanks for replying. That may very well be, but it still has no real weight. All you're saying is that pagan religions have crosses as symbols too. Yup - no one's denying that. The only reason why Christianity has one is because Jesus was executed on a pagan cross. That's a historical fact. So, Christians use crosses to remind them of Jesus' sacrifice for their sins. I don't think I see your point.
dude christianity existed after paganism yes, but god's word existed before all. pagan gods took parts from how you worship god the father since theirs no recorded name for it like chistianity and paganism,pagan gods used this too decive un educated humans into thinking they were gods when they were most likely fallen angels ders much more history your missing dawg. and im a christian but man (somewhat controlled by satan not litterally) i know alot of the bible is inncorrect tamperd with
Thank you for this video. Makes me want to put Christian stickers on my car just to piss off your kind. Nothing is more annoying than half educated atheist who find unqualified people using made up sources. Buy Bart Erhman books if you want to attack Christians, he has something called an "education." And he is very qualified to do so. And may GOD bless you.
Aw man, I'm pretty sure this is one of those people that screams at you when you come out of penn station in nyc. You guys are the worst, get a job.
Christianity has stolen symbols since day one? Since day one is when Jesus came around we didn't steal anything, but if you're referring to the beginning of time as we know it God created that too....So God's stealing his own idea? OWNED
chrisitanity is embedded in paganism, and idolatry, starting with the roman catholic church, but that doesn't mean we should become a-theists, it means ... churches are made of false doctrines that's all..
Christanity as a whole is not endorsed by the bible. The creator doesn't approve of religion. His followers live by the bible not the traslate paganistic changes that was made.
They don't believe in the cross.
They don't celebrate Holidays.
They go from door to door in every country in the world.
Free home Bible studies.
Elders don't get paid like the churches.
Jesus was not in the manger when the wise men came.
He was in the house and about one or two years old.
It's true that "Christianity" adopted many pagan symbols, rituals, and even clothing! BUT, biblical Christianity has nothing of them, really. Why is there talk about the cross, too? Romans crucified millions of people on the cross--including Jesus. So, Christians use the symbol of the Roman cross to remind them of the death of Jesus, which payed the price for sins of the world. There are many crosses, from many times in history, but so what? Christians think of, and use the Roman cross.
The christian symbol of the cross has nothing to do with paganism, other than that it was a pagan means of execution. The Christian cross (i.e., the Roman cross) is not about pagan religion; it's about Jesus' death. Christians use it as a symbol to remind them of Jesus' death. using that symbol in this way poses no problem for the Christian faith, or raises any concerns for 'authenticity' of faith. Your observations are so pointless, man.
okay, what is the real origin of the Mahgen (SP?) David? Do you know? Did it originate, as Jewish tradition says, as a symbol of protection emblazoned onto the shields of the Israelite army in the time of King David, or is it a much older symbol of... well something... probably still protection, maybe knowledge?
most people who reads the bible or study islam or judaism dont know or want to know the origin of their belief and thats just what it is a belief in a book that someone wrote and told them this is the truth so you dont have to verify it take KJV word or rashid or muhammads word dont do any research for yourself just believe, and i say be of free mind and study the origins of these religions and the ancient near east culture's which pre-dates all of them(religions) and you c for yourselves hotep!
that cross isnt a christian cross. the true christian cross has two intersecting lines, no loop, no circle. the cross is used as a symbol because jesus died on the cross. unfortunate you overlooked that lol
If you look into Ancient Hebrew Word Pictures you will find that the last letter is called the tav and is in the shape of a cross. Way before the sun worship symbol, the cross minus the circular cymbol..
It is the shape the priests used when anointing foreheads and, also was used to mark Jewish graves.
Tav. It's literal meaning is "ownership" "covenant" "sign" "a mark" and "to join two things together".
of course the cross was not a christian symbol, not until christ died. and thats the only reason, he happened to be crucified because it was a practice of execution by the greeks at the time of his death. it has nothing to do with pagan symbols, it's not derived from that, simply because it's derived from the crucifix. thats like saying if jesus was hung, it relates to some ancient symbol from some pagan culture, my point is, the cross wasn't picked by the prophets, he just died on one.
i'm not a bookworm but i'm sure that the Christian mention in the bible is very different than the idea of your "christianity". do more research and reading before you embarrass yourself again, and heres a tip the KJV version is the most accurate and closest English translation of the bible from the original language (Hebrew/Aramaic&Greek)
My testimony: My mother teaching us since we were small but not having any interest in God and having a troublemsome life since I could remember, changed in one day when I decided to see if God could really change my life. I guess that was just imaginary?... Try to change me Rebel, I want to see your truth.
Sad... this dude (rebel) is as lost as the so called christians. Who said that the cross is a christian symbol. The cross is one n the last weapon used to kill our Lord Christ Jesus. Yes you are right about that rebel the cross is not a christian symbol. People do not understand what "the MESSAGE of the cross" is. Many so called chirstians dont understand what message means. People you cannot change what the cross is, its the weapon that was use to kill our Lord. You think God likes it?! Sad...
I get what you're saying but what the fook is the SWAT sicka?, ha, ha. Try spending a bit more time learning to speak english correctly first before you go getting in over your head on the theology side of things mate.
one more thing wearing a cross is weird, imagine if my friend died in an electric chair would i wear an electric chair on my neck for him, i dont think i would.
i am not a Christian and i like what you are trying to say, however, i am sorry to tell you that you did not do a good job presenting this info,
sounds like you talk to close to the mic, your pictures are out of time with what your saying most of the time, and you start to saying things and then dont explain them at all just drop them. like this guy is a sun god or whatever tell us his name is horus and there are many similarities between the story of his life and the story of jesus life.
The symbol of Phallic worship, the cross, has become the emblem of Christianity. I quote again from our English authoress: "We find the cross in India, Egypt, Tibet, Japan, always as the sign of life-giving power, it was worn as an amulet by girls and women, and seems to have been specially worn by the women attached to the temples [sacred prostitutes], as a symbol of what was, to them, a religious calling. From the Book "The Christ" by John E. Remberg
these are roman catholic symbols, according to revelations, mystery babylon is roman catholicism, the allegiance of true bible believing christians is to jesus christ and not the pope and his pagan symbols
Well for you to "claim" its a higher meaning I can't refute. Im only going by what the "text" itself state. Since most Christians believe that the Bible needs to be taken literal. Literal means to believe word for word.
But Obvisously this was a parable meaning suffer as he did for the same cause in a way daily, and if you dont understand that. Why speakest thou unto them in parables? He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given. Read matthew 13:9-13
So at first Christians make the statement that the Bible needs to be taken literal but then when somthing strange sounding is in the gospels it becomes a parable or a metaphor or a reference to somthing else. Whatever.
You know whats to be taken literall and not,Christ didnt have a cross around his neck,He actually carried one.But people like you just want to keep their Idolatrey,But didnt you read the scripture gave,why he speaks in parables.
Well for you to "claim" its a higher meaning I can't refute. Im only going by what the "text" itself state. Since most Christians believe that the Bible needs to be taken literal. Literal means to believe word for word.
Image of cross comes from that christ died on cross.. what else would it be? and christian "logo" or something before cross looked like fish but it came from some letters or words
thank you, young one for edifying some many that are supposed to be wiser because of age. then again, even literature in the "apocrypha" tells us that you can be an elder and unwise.
I dont think its hard to see how, much of the xtian symbols descend from pagan ancestry.
Xtianity came about as a solution to the insufficient work & inefficacy of the jewish faith. Recall, the ancestors of the jews held on to inherited pagan customs; handed down from Terah to Nahor and finally Laban. Terah puts us right smack in the cradle of civilization.
It is important to see how xtianity is the product of the old [pagan] world. - a world in which she finds her patriarchs (cont)
Kahanyah noted that you're attacking a straw man when you again raise this question of pre-Christian crosses. You objected that I'm not the only listenter, and while that's true, you still addressed questions about pre-Christian cruciforms to me. From 3:16 to 3:54 of this video, you ask me if the cruciform now called the Coptic Cross predates Christianity, and you even claim I'm choking on my beard. But back in May, in comments on your Keith Truth video, I mentioned the ankh several times.
RAM, you asked about Christians who thought Christ was figurative. Would you like to be more specific? If you'd like to discuss a specific person or text (e.g. a text found at Nag Hamadi, perhaps?), then cite a specific source.
As for Tertullian, he didn't run anyone off. Christians went of the physical offensive against pagans more than a century after the time Tertullian lived.
RAM, you said you wave off sources which i"ncline the Cross is Christian oriented". Does this include GW Benson's book, which Man Myth & Magic cited as a source? You've never read Benson's book. It does not deny the existence of pagan crosses; rather it devotes considerable space to the subject! You waved it off because it tells the truth: we don't know the ORIGIN of the cross. You mockingly ask others if they know what "origin" means, but I wonder if you've considered what it actually means.
you know, people truly believe that symbols are only a recent thing, not realizing that its as ancient as man kind lol.
its just people recent been taking these symbols and changing the name and meaning of it, but its still the same symbol with the same original purpose lol
CHAMBERS, you seem to be saying explicitly what I suspect is the RAM's implicit line of reasoning.
But to be clear, are you saying that if someone assigns a different meaning to a symbol, that is irrelevant, because the only meaning that is possible is the original one?
you know what i do not like about christianity,abu-it adopted customs, symbols, traditions, etc. from "pagan" theology and will not give credit to "pagan" theology. instead, it acts as if they are the ones that initiated such symbols, customs, traditions and so forth.
the question that was posed to the icgjc calling me the enemy of the cross was this, "which cross and what is the origin of the cross?". this was a video posted on my channel months ago.
RAM, regarding the cruciform, see the Catholic Encyclopaedia article on the cross, which is linked to at the end of the description of my first video on why the Cross is a Christian symbol. If an entry in an encyclopaedia put out *before you were born* says specifically that some Egyptian Christians adopted the ankh as a symbol, doesn't your accusation seem a bit unjustified (at least as far as this video is concerned)? It is even alluded to in Sozomen.
RAM, I assume by the most popular form of the cross, you mean the immissa (which has a vertical beam longer than the horizontal beam). The simplest explanation of why Christians use that symbol is that such was the likely the sort of cross Christ was executed on.
But again, actually go and see the relevant C.E. article. It was written before you were born, and is far more elaborate than Man, Myth and Magic in discussing pagan cruciforms. So what was the Church hiding or denying, exactly?
within this video-i made a point-that there will be christians that will admit that the coptic cross was stolen from "pagans". but will they admit that the most traditional cross of christianity is, too, a stolen symbol of "pagans"?
RAM, but your question begs the following question: /was/ the most traditional cross stolen from pagan symbols? You have not demonstrated that this is the case.
By the most traditional cross, I *assume* you mean the immissa (is that assumption correct?). The cruciform is already a literary symbol in the New Testament (e.g. it would be awkward to take any NT reference to the Cross and claim it's actually referring to an ankh, or the sun - they are referring the object Christ was crucified on).
abu, i will advise you again to learn the history of the early christian church. not just the christian literalists, but the gnostics as well. in addition, i would advise you to question why were certain nt texts burned. furthermore, there are many early church fathers that promoted christian propaganda. i know and understand why average christians believe in what they believe in regarding the cross. why were gnostics and heretics killed? why was the nag hammadi hidden for so many centuries?
RAM, I'm always willing to learn more about Christian history, sir. However, I don't see the full relevance of your comment to this discussion. For example, I have a mild familiarity with the Nag Hamadi texts, and some of those texts explicitly associate the cross with the crucifixion.
Yes, in Christian history there were instances of violence and censorship. But how does that answer the question of why the Cross is a Christian symbol?
and secondarily, how have i not demonstrated this is not the case? what are you talking about, sir? sometimes you can be a headache; i do not know if you are playing mind games or are you just intentionally denying material.
i never said the popular cross was the ankh; however, THERE ARE LITERARY SOURCES THAT SAY IN ENGLISH, ABU, THAT CHRIST WAS AN ASSOCIATION WITH THE SUN AND THE CROSS AS WELL.
RAM, regarding whether you have demonstrated that the Christian cross was merely stolen from pagan theology rather than being inspired by the crucifixion, your approach shows no awareness of an actual ORIGIN of a thing, on the one hand, and a person using pre-existing artistic themes and styles to /depict/ that thing, on the other. I'll try to explain this in greater detail in a forthcoming video.
And "literary sources" say all sorts of things. Let's explore and analyze them.
My apologies; there was a typographical error in my last comment. I meant to write something along the following lines:
"Your approach shows no awareness of *THE DISTINCTION BETWEEN* (1) the actual origin of a thing, and (2) a person using a pre-existing artistic theme or style to /depict/ that thing."
When I have time, I will attempt to expand on this theme in greater detail in a forthcoming video.
so next example, if egypt came up with a name amen for their god or whatever, then the hebrews came and took the name but made it mean something else, something less then the egyptians had made it for and because they made the name less then what it is and taught us that it has no importance, then do you think that was right or wrong for what they did purposely.
the reason why origins should be followed because that is when god was there (based on the bible story. etc) & its the first, no 2nd
lets say adam came on the scene and named the long tall thing on the ground and called it tree, then later down in history, someone decided to change the name of it and then try to make the world forget the original name of that thing, are you telling me that is right, we should follow the second meaning which is not irrevelent.
no i don`t think you would do that because then your trying to say that adam thoughts are not important and god being with adam at the time is not important to you.
in addition, Abu, this kind of behavior is known as copy-right infringement and plagiarism. of course, such ideas were not incorporated in those days; however, why is it that the rule does not apply?
if you had a symbol, custom, tradition, or whatever and it meant this and i turn around, steal your symbol, etc and give it a new meaning without ever acknowledging the source, are you telling me there is nothing wrong with that, abu? honestly?
there is a reason the average christian, jew or muslim is ignorant to the history of their symbols, customs and traditions. if they were to find out the truth concerning this matter, more than likely, they will respond like myself and the markzman and become apostatized.
the early church spent years concealing the truth about the original teachings of christ. gnostics were ex-communicated and killed. then that library surfaced in the late 1940's.
yes that is what i`m saying. like for example your parents name you abu and lets say it had a meaning to that name, that belong only to your ethnicity or language, no one else has it. but later on, another ethnicity heard the name, liked it and decided to name their child that but change the meaning of it and called it original. are you telling me that even though the other person stoled you name and claim it as their own, that their both right in their own way.
CHAMBERS, I asked if you were saying that if someone assigns a different meaning to a symbol, that is irrelevant, because the only meaning that is possible is the original one. You exact answer was "yes that is what i`m saying".
So, then, with regard to the cross, the only possible meaning, according to your logic, is the FIRST meaning intended by the first person to create or draw one. Do you have any idea what that FIRST meaning was? What's your evidence? I look forward to your answer.
RAM, you positively asserted that the STARTING POINT for the cross is pagan theology. That would mean the first ever cross was made with a pagan theological intention. What's your evidence for this? Pagan cruciforms predate Christian cross, but this does not mean any particular pagan cruciform we know of is the ORIGINAL cross. For example, in the history of our species, George Washington predates both you and me. But Washington is not the STARTING POINT or ORIGIN of our species. Understand?
I don't know if we should wear a cross shape or not, but I see the scriptures mention that we should bear the burden of what Christ went through for us.
Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
I think maybe you are focusing on the word Christinaity, when your real question is of which cross are you the enemy. As far as what Christianity reps, that predates the cross, and following Christ comes with being willing to stand for the truth, and carry the struggle of the cross. Not to make it sound less than what it is, but I think the Cross is in many ways a type of very hard struggle.
I see the point your making about the wood that Christ was crucified on, but I think the cross that Christ was crucified on reps something more deep than it being a wooden shape that was used before he was crucified on it. So being against the cross as it pertains to Jesus I think would be being against going through the struggle that comes with following Jesus Christ. So bearing your cross is like accepting the burden that comes at you when you follow Christ. And Christ went thru it.
Now, again, the real question is why is the cross a Christian symbol? The simplest (and most obvious) answer is because Christ was executed on a cross. As a result, the cross became a symbol of Christ's sacrifice, and thus central to the Christian faith. From there, throughout history, different Christians have appropriated and reinterpeted cruciforms in light of their faith (this includes everything from, yes, the ankh, to the famous World Trade Center cross).
we discoursed this before, abu in which i told you why is it is popularly accepted as christ being executed on a cross and what not-that is the story told and accepted by popular christianity. in addition, what about the christians that did not take the christ story literal; that knew christ was figurative? what of them? they were all ran off by people such as your tertullian, theodosius and the rest of the christian literalist.
I cited Benson *before* beginning my actual argument, because he was only used to make a point about how your question was poorly worded. Nobody (including you) knows the ORIGIN of the geometric shape we call the cruciform or cross. The real question is why the cross is a Christian symbol. But you just waved Benson off in toto, without even looking at his book, simply because he said something you didn't like (even though what he wrote was OBVIOUSLY true). That is bias on your part.
Around 7:45, you claim I used a Christian apologetic source which says we don't know the *ORIGIN* of the cross. With all due respect, you show your own bias by waving the source off like that. GW Benson's book was a source for Man, Myth & Magic's article. Much of the book covers pre-Christian, pagan religious usages of cruciforms. But he was using the word "origin" properly. Origin would be the beginning, the start. Do you know the origin of the cross?
yes, the beginning and starting point of the cross is not christianity, but pagan "theology".
i have waved off my sources that would ONLY incline the cross is christian oriented with no "pagan" influence. i would do such a thing because such sources are not credible.
Greetings Gentlemen. You keeping asking if the cruciform predates Christianity, and the answer is obviously yes. My first video on the subject said such, and when Kahanyah commented on your response to my first video, he also told you that my video said as much. Do you honestly believe the point of contention between us on this subject is whether or not there were pre-Christian crosses? We don't disagree on that point. We never have.
and i do not mock or insult anyone when i acknowledge that they make up the majority of our listeners. i am merely acknowledging our listeners-whether they are israelites, greeks, jews, christians, atheists-whatever. i only show appreciation.
Yea, i noticed RAM is rehashing a settled issue (cruciform predates xtianity.) Abu, I would venture to say theyre creating a strawman to browbeat you LOL!
lol
APOSTATECOMMISSION 1 month ago
1:35 no Mary is not the queen of heaven to us, you are thinking of Catholics.
id493337 1 month ago
rebelalliance i must admit i did like the star wars credit in your video.
Immortal4Aday 1 month ago
Read more about pagan customs syncretized in Christianity in Lew White's book: Fossilized Customs.
LakbayKo 1 month ago
Dude get the mic out of your mouth!!!
H2Ocaptain 1 month ago
idiot
outlawbenning 2 months ago
@outlawbenning you forgot to leave your last name too
RebelAllianceMedia 2 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
We have been lied to and many things we are taught have been lies and are not even in Scripture. If you are a truth seeker then check out the site in my user name and listen to the audio there. You will be shocked and you will come away asking many questions. Thanks
2besavedcom 2 months ago
I read most of these comments and respond that a man must be born again or he cannot see the kindgom of God. That is why most of you don`t know what you are talking about
TOBEMEism 2 months ago
@TOBEMEism thou shall not judge=have no judgement be stupid haha
1010bree 2 weeks ago
hahaha im pagan alright but ill be the first to admit.... that dudes got a creepy voice! lol i mean sure hes making points and trying to be serious and stuff but all i can think is... Am i gonna get raped or something? hahahahahaha
therealwillhunting 2 months ago
@therealwillhunting NO ur to fat!
RebelAllianceMedia 2 months ago
@therealwillhunting lmao. you're sick.
RebelAllianceMedia 2 months ago
@RebelAllianceMedia hahah i know i just thought id mess with ya man hahaha but yeah you made a lot of good points in the video. i noticed actually a reason that the christians probably did this was to make conversion easier. oddly enough it worked for a time but more and more people are converting back to the old ways which i find interesting.
therealwillhunting 2 months ago
This is why God did not want them marrying or living together with gentiles because they would pick up their customs and traditions and easter and christmas are pagan people need to do some of their own research stop taking what is told to you at face value look it up for yourself
360jab 2 months ago
Damn, what did you snort pain killers before making this? You sound like you're overdosing. Otherwise, a good video.
DradijkaVonPontinov 2 months ago
but you cant tell these ppl anything there slaves to there religons but the book dosent speak of any of these things, you show them in there book how its wrong and they still dont listen im not knocking the bible im a fan or should say a follower but these religons go directly against the book. jus stick to the book but christanty as a whole is trash and has nothing to do with the bible christmas easter sunday worship not in the book
rocnation2222 2 months ago
@rocnation2222 Easter is in the bible acts12:4.......
RebelAllianceMedia 2 months ago
@RebelAllianceMedia WHAT?!!!
9lbspelu 2 months ago
@rocnation2222 sun son worship but they deny their own power/ in solar plexus heart within
1010bree 2 weeks ago
@silvermoon9595. You do not understand the Christian faith!! If you did you would not be a practicing witch. To understand something is to come into an agreement with it. Your are filled with lies and the truth is not in you!!!! All of your comments regardless of how sincere you try to come across are deceptive at best.
5starGeneral79 2 months ago
The narrator sounds SO STONED!!! It would be better to practice quoting your sources than repeatedly trying to convince us how smart you are. Absolutely nothing new in this video - you are just babbling back what you've heard elsewhere & without quoting sources.
Soressi1 3 months ago 8
@Soressi1 good for you.
RebelAllianceMedia 3 months ago
as far as I know..Christians do NOT use the Ank...As a matter of fact..it is considered Pagan..so what are you talking about? LOL
ThisMyScarytale 3 months ago
@ThisMyScarytale you have so much to learn. Christianity has pagan origins "so what are you talking about? LOL"
RebelAllianceMedia 3 months ago
@RebelAllianceMedia yah cristians killed off most of the pegan people and forced them to covert or die
hempknight100 2 months ago
@hempknight100 Listening to Gerald Gardner and Richard Buckland's teachings too much. Easily persuaded minds are pitiful!! Read a Bible.
ThisMyScarytale 1 week ago
@RebelAllianceMedia it doesn't have pagan origins, it has pagan influence. Big difference.
ReallifeGfly 2 months ago
@RebelAllianceMedia I know this...so while you are assuming that I was saying there wasn't...MAYBE you should read all the comments I made. I don't even remember what i said, but I know "Christianity" is full of paganism. That's why I HATE religion, BUT..I do believe in Jehovah/ Yahweh and I believe in Jesus Christ..and The Bible! So what exactly is it that you think I need to learn??? LOL
ThisMyScarytale 1 week ago
@ThisMyScarytale You mean well, but its not all your fault!
RebelAllianceMedia 1 week ago
@RebelAllianceMedia Have fun with all the dumb stuff...U can't touch me or my mind :D
ThisMyScarytale 1 week ago
My hubby just preached on all the pagan origins of things like this! Very interesting indeed!
chucksangel01 3 months ago
i am not trying to change ur beliefs if u r living ur life in a positive way & ur faith makes u happy than thank you very much i hope u will always smile & be positive to all. heck even if u dont have faith if u r happy & r living in a positive way keep smiling & pass on that happyness. my blessings are for everyone idc what u believe in. i am a witch i have studied other faiths besides my own kind & i believe that no matter what r faith we r all born equal. so to every1 Blessed Be& thank u
silvermoon9595 3 months ago
so i see no point in all this fighting i will not fight on any side. i am a witch but i will stand up for what is right fighting over others faith is wrong! you should either
1. make peace
or 2. keep away from each other.
meaning pagans if u dont like christian things dont look them up & same goes for u christians.
christian's God wouldnt want you to act in such a way & u know that if u read the bible, he just wants man kind to get along & pagans would the goddess b proud of u doin this
silvermoon9595 3 months ago
ALL RIGHT I HAD ABOUT IT UP TO MY HEAD WITH THIS!!!!!!!
I PRACTICE WITCHCRAFT OKAY & I LOVE HEARING THINGS ABOUT MY FAITH BUT THIS IM PAGAN SO ILL HATE ON CHRISTIAN'S & IM CHRISTIAN SO I NEED TO HATE ON PAGAN'S THING NEEDS TO STOP!!!!
All of you pagan's follow the rede an ye harm none do what ye will. & u christian's i learned & understand ur faith i respect it, the bible says do on to others as you would have do onto you. the bible also said that God has many manchens (homes)
silvermoon9595 3 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
If we truly read and adhered ONLY to the Scriptures we would see these vain traditions are not only in 'christianity' but rampant in 'judaism' and these two are the parents of the 'messianics' with their traditions.
Vain traditions are in ALL assemblies so let us all personally read and heed the warning from the true Messiah in Matt 7:1-29.
Vain traditons = Adding to the Word = LIAR.
"Every Word of Eloah is refined ... Add not against His Word lest be a convicted liar." (Proverbs 30:5,6)
freeindeed2u 3 months ago
The first symbol is not a cross.... It's a Ankh Ancient Egyptian symbol of life, fertility and the union of male and female. It appears frequently in Egyptian writings about resurrection and is sometimes referred to as the Key of the Nile. In the Wiccan/Neopagan traditions, the Ankh is often used as a symbol of immortality and completion.
Fiercefist 4 months ago
the swastika that you are talking about was actually called the ANCIENT SWASTIKA which originated with the Persian kings or achemed empire under cyres the great or darius the great. who ever freed the jews from the babylonian empire slavery. This was also apart of the INDO ARYAN MIGRATIONS which is where hitler made most of his propaganda from. Also this proves that the hebrews are also indo aryan because they migrated from babylon with the first INDO AYRANS which are the persian kings.
zapzap25 4 months ago
@thebuttascotchbro1-the jehovahs witnesses use the pagan symbol of the watchtower,and their old books have the winged disk symbol,and the knights templar cross and crown,if your going to follow a faith,its very important to explore the roots--a tree is only as strong as its roots-charles taze russel was fond of freemasonary,it was in his writings.jehovahs witnesses are wacked out.
dignerds 4 months ago
(John 15:17-19) 17 “These things I command YOU, that YOU love one another. 18 If the world hates YOU, YOU know that it has hated me before it hated YOU. 19 If YOU were part of the world, the world would be fond of what is its own. Now because YOU are no part of the world, but I have chosen YOU out of the world, on this account the world hates YOU. . .
TheButtascotchbro1 5 months ago
Well a lot of religions like Christianity and many others that exist today stole from older religions like ancient Egyptian religions and many others. A lot of historians have done their best to cover and rewrite history to cover the truth because they are worried about Christianity going under if people were to ever find out what they really worship. As long as you find the truth out for yourself and set yourself free that is the important part.
grownman455 5 months ago
@grownman455 real christian don't follow pagan roots..the Catholics and the Baptist and all so called christian have pagan roots..but the Jehovah witness don't..that's why I left the church...these so called holidays are pagan..and when I tell people I get I know Jesus was not born on 25 of December it's tradition..but it's pagan tradition..not Gods.. and not scriptural..
TheButtascotchbro1 5 months ago
The coptic cross looks totally different do some research! This has nothing to do with the egypt Ankh what you show us here as coptic cross!!!
Gieszkanne 5 months ago
Interesting....But U should be telling how the Christians adapted the cross...."The Story with Constatinopel and the pagens entering Christianity, how they brought in their cross from Pagan belief"....good work kid, U just need to sound more lively
bigmac19751234 5 months ago
Thats not a cross.
Trillproductions89 5 months ago
@Trillproductions89 what is not a cross?
RebelAllianceMedia 5 months ago
@RebelAllianceMedia the pic at 0:42 its called an ankh the symbol of life but yea i can see were you got the idea that it was a cross
WORMIE4456W 4 months ago
WEIGHING ANNUAL OBSERVANCES
16 A godly life frees us from the often burdensome celebrating of worldly holidays. For instance, the Bible does not reveal the exact day of Jesus’ birth. ‘I thought Jesus was born on December 25!’ some may exclaim. This is not possible because he died in the spring of 33 C.E. at 33 1/2 years of age. Moreover, at the time of his birth, shepherds were “living out of doors and keeping watches in the night over their flocks.”
TheButtascotchbro1 5 months ago
(Luke 2:8) In the land of Israel, late December is a cold, rainy season during which sheep would be kept in shelters overnight to protect them from the winter weather. Actually, December 25 was set aside by the Romans as the birthday of their sun god. Centuries after Jesus was on earth, apostate Christians adopted this date for the celebration of Christ’s birth.
TheButtascotchbro1 5 months ago 2
@TheButtascotchbro1
correct...No where in the Bible it is stated what date Jesus was born....The date 25th of December is a pagan date for their Sun gods birthday. I feel pity for the billions of Christians who are deluded and kept Dumb....but again blame urself, cause all the information is on internet....READ and get knowledge
bigmac19751234 5 months ago
@bigmac19751234 AM I DUMB BECAUSE I AGREE WITH YOU..OR IS IT BECAUSE I DO READ?..YOU TELL ME I DON'T KNOW.
TheButtascotchbro1 5 months ago
@TheButtascotchbro1
If U read and u understand what U read...then everything should be OK
bigmac19751234 5 months ago
@bigmac19751234 AH NAW WE GOOD I DID WHAT HALF OF THOSE WHO CALL THEMSELVES CHRISTIAN..DO I WASN'T PAYING ATTENTION THEN I WENT BACK TO READ THEN I GOT YOU POINT...GOOD POINT..ALL OF THE WORLDLY HOLIDAYS ARE ALL PAGAN...JESUS SAID TO CELEBRATE HIS DEATH..AND THAT'S IT..AND NO PEOPLE EASTER TAINT IT..
TheButtascotchbro1 5 months ago 2
@bigmac19751234 Right On :)
I boycotted ALL those "Holidays"
ThisMyScarytale 1 week ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@TheButtascotchbro1
correct...No where in the Bible it is stated what date Jesus was born....The date 25th of December is a pagan date for their Sun gods birthday. I feel pity for the billions of Christians who are deluded and kept Dumb....but again blame urself, cause all the information is on internet....READ and get knowledge
bigmac19751234 5 months ago
Why Living a Godly Life Brings Happiness
Consequently, true Christians do not celebrate Christmas or any other holiday based on false religious beliefs. Because they give Jehovah exclusive devotion, they also do not observe holidays that idolize sinful humans or nations.
TheButtascotchbro1 5 months ago
@thephosphatemine
ok...but what is your point though? All you said is that the Coptic cross looks like the Egyptian ankh...so what?
Grambo4 7 months ago
@thephosphatemine
Hey there. Thanks for replying. That may very well be, but it still has no real weight. All you're saying is that pagan religions have crosses as symbols too. Yup - no one's denying that. The only reason why Christianity has one is because Jesus was executed on a pagan cross. That's a historical fact. So, Christians use crosses to remind them of Jesus' sacrifice for their sins. I don't think I see your point.
Grambo4 7 months ago
dude christianity existed after paganism yes, but god's word existed before all. pagan gods took parts from how you worship god the father since theirs no recorded name for it like chistianity and paganism,pagan gods used this too decive un educated humans into thinking they were gods when they were most likely fallen angels ders much more history your missing dawg. and im a christian but man (somewhat controlled by satan not litterally) i know alot of the bible is inncorrect tamperd with
bigman9oo 8 months ago
shalom bro,
Keep exposing these pagan christians
qcornell04 10 months ago 2
the ankh is the symbol of life it`s the form of a womans womb or the birth canal
ososeff 11 months ago
yes the swastika was a good luck symbol in Hinduism, Buddhism and represented a sun wheel in ancient Greece, Native Indians, etc.
narlycat 11 months ago
Thank you for this video. Makes me want to put Christian stickers on my car just to piss off your kind. Nothing is more annoying than half educated atheist who find unqualified people using made up sources. Buy Bart Erhman books if you want to attack Christians, he has something called an "education." And he is very qualified to do so. And may GOD bless you.
onemarktwoyou 1 year ago
yeah right the xtians i know havent even heard of st george yet alone horus
luciferangelica 1 year ago
Aw man, I'm pretty sure this is one of those people that screams at you when you come out of penn station in nyc. You guys are the worst, get a job.
Christianity has stolen symbols since day one? Since day one is when Jesus came around we didn't steal anything, but if you're referring to the beginning of time as we know it God created that too....So God's stealing his own idea? OWNED
RSchmittyNJ1 1 year ago
Aw man, I'm pretty sure this is one of the guys that screams at you when you come out of penn station in nyc. You guys are the worst get a job.
RSchmittyNJ1 1 year ago
haha, "Have you ever read Gilgamesh?" - yeah man, we all took 8th grade english.
RSchmittyNJ1 1 year ago
chrisitanity is embedded in paganism, and idolatry, starting with the roman catholic church, but that doesn't mean we should become a-theists, it means ... churches are made of false doctrines that's all..
crazybuttful 1 year ago
Christanity as a whole is not endorsed by the bible. The creator doesn't approve of religion. His followers live by the bible not the traslate paganistic changes that was made.
They don't believe in the cross.
They don't celebrate Holidays.
They go from door to door in every country in the world.
Free home Bible studies.
Elders don't get paid like the churches.
Jesus was not in the manger when the wise men came.
He was in the house and about one or two years old.
SANW2010 1 year ago
@SANW2010 go further into time for the truth...or stay where u r, thats fine too...
hoodprophet 1 year ago
@SANW2010 VERY WELL SAID :)
ThisMyScarytale 1 week ago
Have you done your research from the bible.
"THE BIBLE" has never indorsed the cross before King James translated it.
The bible is accurate in the greek word it uses throught out which is "Stauros"and "Xylon".
Research these two words in all of its scriptures and you will find the truth.
The bible was complete in 100 C.E.
(1600 C.E.) 1500 years later came the King James Version with the word cross in it.
So you find the origin. Original of the word usage.
Post result
SANW2010 1 year ago
History will be repeated many times over and ignorance will maintain that history is repeated
Robin Ariel Ross St Claire Holgate
Country Music Artist/Celebrity
robinarielmedia 1 year ago
@robinarielmedia nah, that paradigm is stale and becoming outdated. on to the next one...dimension that is...
hoodprophet 1 year ago
man! you're so funny! Praise YAH!!!!!
crazybuttful 1 year ago
wow...you're mission is just to be annoying isn't it??? lol
Yashiya24 1 year ago
It's true that "Christianity" adopted many pagan symbols, rituals, and even clothing! BUT, biblical Christianity has nothing of them, really. Why is there talk about the cross, too? Romans crucified millions of people on the cross--including Jesus. So, Christians use the symbol of the Roman cross to remind them of the death of Jesus, which payed the price for sins of the world. There are many crosses, from many times in history, but so what? Christians think of, and use the Roman cross.
Grambo4 1 year ago
The christian symbol of the cross has nothing to do with paganism, other than that it was a pagan means of execution. The Christian cross (i.e., the Roman cross) is not about pagan religion; it's about Jesus' death. Christians use it as a symbol to remind them of Jesus' death. using that symbol in this way poses no problem for the Christian faith, or raises any concerns for 'authenticity' of faith. Your observations are so pointless, man.
Grambo4 1 year ago
Comment removed
EmmaDilemmaBlue 1 year ago
okay, what is the real origin of the Mahgen (SP?) David? Do you know? Did it originate, as Jewish tradition says, as a symbol of protection emblazoned onto the shields of the Israelite army in the time of King David, or is it a much older symbol of... well something... probably still protection, maybe knowledge?
Jonstern1983 1 year ago
most people who reads the bible or study islam or judaism dont know or want to know the origin of their belief and thats just what it is a belief in a book that someone wrote and told them this is the truth so you dont have to verify it take KJV word or rashid or muhammads word dont do any research for yourself just believe, and i say be of free mind and study the origins of these religions and the ancient near east culture's which pre-dates all of them(religions) and you c for yourselves hotep!
enquirer43 1 year ago
that cross isnt a christian cross. the true christian cross has two intersecting lines, no loop, no circle. the cross is used as a symbol because jesus died on the cross. unfortunate you overlooked that lol
Magnedudewon2 1 year ago
If you look into Ancient Hebrew Word Pictures you will find that the last letter is called the tav and is in the shape of a cross. Way before the sun worship symbol, the cross minus the circular cymbol..
It is the shape the priests used when anointing foreheads and, also was used to mark Jewish graves.
Tav. It's literal meaning is "ownership" "covenant" "sign" "a mark" and "to join two things together".
iluvfsh1 1 year ago
lol sounds like he's comparing Catholic 's to Christians. Should be an obvious difference to anyone now. gg kk thx bye now.
looking4themountain 1 year ago
of course the cross was not a christian symbol, not until christ died. and thats the only reason, he happened to be crucified because it was a practice of execution by the greeks at the time of his death. it has nothing to do with pagan symbols, it's not derived from that, simply because it's derived from the crucifix. thats like saying if jesus was hung, it relates to some ancient symbol from some pagan culture, my point is, the cross wasn't picked by the prophets, he just died on one.
Terrybob123 1 year ago
back up from the mic... too much wind. it's killin' me & I'm 30 sec. into the vid!! ack.
interesting info either way.
ibkristykat 1 year ago
i'm not a bookworm but i'm sure that the Christian mention in the bible is very different than the idea of your "christianity". do more research and reading before you embarrass yourself again, and heres a tip the KJV version is the most accurate and closest English translation of the bible from the original language (Hebrew/Aramaic&Greek)
Proverbs 26:4
masterzyk 1 year ago
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masterzyk 1 year ago
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masterzyk 1 year ago
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masterzyk 1 year ago
My testimony: My mother teaching us since we were small but not having any interest in God and having a troublemsome life since I could remember, changed in one day when I decided to see if God could really change my life. I guess that was just imaginary?... Try to change me Rebel, I want to see your truth.
JDIProductions 2 years ago
Sad... this dude (rebel) is as lost as the so called christians. Who said that the cross is a christian symbol. The cross is one n the last weapon used to kill our Lord Christ Jesus. Yes you are right about that rebel the cross is not a christian symbol. People do not understand what "the MESSAGE of the cross" is. Many so called chirstians dont understand what message means. People you cannot change what the cross is, its the weapon that was use to kill our Lord. You think God likes it?! Sad...
JDIProductions 2 years ago
ur voice is really anoing man
shawntyxl 2 years ago 11
thanks. i take that as a compliment.
RebelAllianceMedia 2 years ago
No problem =D
shawntyxl 2 years ago
@shawntyxl not so much the voice, but his mic sucks
Spacemarine420 1 year ago
I get what you're saying but what the fook is the SWAT sicka?, ha, ha. Try spending a bit more time learning to speak english correctly first before you go getting in over your head on the theology side of things mate.
:)
TheLastCelticBard 2 years ago
@TheLastCelticBard
the swastika was a traditional slavic pagan symbol and was adopted by the slavic people before the birth of jesus, hitler or the buddhists.
vnexec89 1 year ago
NO,I don't feel stupid. Does your neck feel tired?
rewilkins2 2 years ago
fuck christaninty , fuck religions all satanic. the isnt about religion.
tazaqwa777 2 years ago
one more thing wearing a cross is weird, imagine if my friend died in an electric chair would i wear an electric chair on my neck for him, i dont think i would.
WastedSensation 2 years ago 9
@WastedSensation there is nowhere in the bible that says we should wear a cross.
Mcstroke57 7 months ago
i am not a Christian and i like what you are trying to say, however, i am sorry to tell you that you did not do a good job presenting this info,
sounds like you talk to close to the mic, your pictures are out of time with what your saying most of the time, and you start to saying things and then dont explain them at all just drop them. like this guy is a sun god or whatever tell us his name is horus and there are many similarities between the story of his life and the story of jesus life.
WastedSensation 2 years ago
The symbol of Phallic worship, the cross, has become the emblem of Christianity. I quote again from our English authoress: "We find the cross in India, Egypt, Tibet, Japan, always as the sign of life-giving power, it was worn as an amulet by girls and women, and seems to have been specially worn by the women attached to the temples [sacred prostitutes], as a symbol of what was, to them, a religious calling. From the Book "The Christ" by John E. Remberg
12lipa 2 years ago
these are roman catholic symbols, according to revelations, mystery babylon is roman catholicism, the allegiance of true bible believing christians is to jesus christ and not the pope and his pagan symbols
th37dayth3ory 2 years ago
Your response is out of context. You made it seem as if the CROSS has absolutely nothing to do with protestant Christianity.
Actually in the Gospels itself Jesus states :
And He said to them all, if any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me. (Luke 9:23)
Jesus speaks about a CROSS in the scriptures, So actually it's not JUST Roman Catholic symbols.
SiriusLordoflisan7 2 years ago
I don't think he meant pick up a wooden symbol everyday and follow him. i think it's deeper than that.
ROBRIOIO 2 years ago
Well for you to "claim" its a higher meaning I can't refute. Im only going by what the "text" itself state. Since most Christians believe that the Bible needs to be taken literal. Literal means to believe word for word.
SiriusLordoflisan7 2 years ago
But Obvisously this was a parable meaning suffer as he did for the same cause in a way daily, and if you dont understand that. Why speakest thou unto them in parables? He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given. Read matthew 13:9-13
servingthetrueking 2 years ago
So at first Christians make the statement that the Bible needs to be taken literal but then when somthing strange sounding is in the gospels it becomes a parable or a metaphor or a reference to somthing else. Whatever.
SiriusLordoflisan7 2 years ago
You know whats to be taken literall and not,Christ didnt have a cross around his neck,He actually carried one.But people like you just want to keep their Idolatrey,But didnt you read the scripture gave,why he speaks in parables.
servingthetrueking 2 years ago
Well for you to "claim" its a higher meaning I can't refute. Im only going by what the "text" itself state. Since most Christians believe that the Bible needs to be taken literal. Literal means to believe word for word.
SiriusLordoflisan7 2 years ago
Thats right,cause that would be idolatrey
servingthetrueking 2 years ago
But what image of a cross did Christ give you.
servingthetrueking 2 years ago
Christ? Whoever said I believed in Christ?
SiriusLordoflisan7 2 years ago
Image of cross comes from that christ died on cross.. what else would it be? and christian "logo" or something before cross looked like fish but it came from some letters or words
isokessu 2 years ago
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But what image of a cross did Christ give you.
servingthetrueking 2 years ago
(Original)-belonging or pertaining to the origin or beginning of something, or to a thing at its beginning: The book still has its original binding.
(Origin)-the first stage of existence; beginning: the origin of Quakerism in America.
MysteryMan1986 2 years ago
thank you, young one for edifying some many that are supposed to be wiser because of age. then again, even literature in the "apocrypha" tells us that you can be an elder and unwise.
RebelAllianceMedia 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
NEW MUSIC FOR ISRAELITES HERE!!!!
aboutadonis 2 years ago
lmao
RebelAllianceMedia 2 years ago
I dont think its hard to see how, much of the xtian symbols descend from pagan ancestry.
Xtianity came about as a solution to the insufficient work & inefficacy of the jewish faith. Recall, the ancestors of the jews held on to inherited pagan customs; handed down from Terah to Nahor and finally Laban. Terah puts us right smack in the cradle of civilization.
It is important to see how xtianity is the product of the old [pagan] world. - a world in which she finds her patriarchs (cont)
kahanyah 2 years ago
(cont)... members of.
These pagan symbols belonged to ancestors of xtendom. I think w/ this perspective, one can see the connection bet. xtian symbols and paganism.
kahanyah 2 years ago
i know your looking at.its amazing,abu's denial.
RebelAllianceMedia 2 years ago
Kahanyah noted that you're attacking a straw man when you again raise this question of pre-Christian crosses. You objected that I'm not the only listenter, and while that's true, you still addressed questions about pre-Christian cruciforms to me. From 3:16 to 3:54 of this video, you ask me if the cruciform now called the Coptic Cross predates Christianity, and you even claim I'm choking on my beard. But back in May, in comments on your Keith Truth video, I mentioned the ankh several times.
AbuKhamrAlMaseeHee 2 years ago
RAM, you asked about Christians who thought Christ was figurative. Would you like to be more specific? If you'd like to discuss a specific person or text (e.g. a text found at Nag Hamadi, perhaps?), then cite a specific source.
As for Tertullian, he didn't run anyone off. Christians went of the physical offensive against pagans more than a century after the time Tertullian lived.
AbuKhamrAlMaseeHee 2 years ago
RAM, you said you wave off sources which i"ncline the Cross is Christian oriented". Does this include GW Benson's book, which Man Myth & Magic cited as a source? You've never read Benson's book. It does not deny the existence of pagan crosses; rather it devotes considerable space to the subject! You waved it off because it tells the truth: we don't know the ORIGIN of the cross. You mockingly ask others if they know what "origin" means, but I wonder if you've considered what it actually means.
AbuKhamrAlMaseeHee 2 years ago
as i would love to delve into this topic with you, but i have received a disturbing private mail from welovethehate account.
RebelAllianceMedia 2 years ago
you know, people truly believe that symbols are only a recent thing, not realizing that its as ancient as man kind lol.
its just people recent been taking these symbols and changing the name and meaning of it, but its still the same symbol with the same original purpose lol
chambers396 2 years ago
i am telling you, chambers-makes no sense.
RebelAllianceMedia 2 years ago
CHAMBERS, you seem to be saying explicitly what I suspect is the RAM's implicit line of reasoning.
But to be clear, are you saying that if someone assigns a different meaning to a symbol, that is irrelevant, because the only meaning that is possible is the original one?
AbuKhamrAlMaseeHee 2 years ago
you know what i do not like about christianity,abu-it adopted customs, symbols, traditions, etc. from "pagan" theology and will not give credit to "pagan" theology. instead, it acts as if they are the ones that initiated such symbols, customs, traditions and so forth.
the question that was posed to the icgjc calling me the enemy of the cross was this, "which cross and what is the origin of the cross?". this was a video posted on my channel months ago.
RebelAllianceMedia 2 years ago
RAM, regarding the cruciform, see the Catholic Encyclopaedia article on the cross, which is linked to at the end of the description of my first video on why the Cross is a Christian symbol. If an entry in an encyclopaedia put out *before you were born* says specifically that some Egyptian Christians adopted the ankh as a symbol, doesn't your accusation seem a bit unjustified (at least as far as this video is concerned)? It is even alluded to in Sozomen.
AbuKhamrAlMaseeHee 2 years ago
and what does it say about the most popular christian cross- a question that i asked in the video?
RebelAllianceMedia 2 years ago
RAM, I assume by the most popular form of the cross, you mean the immissa (which has a vertical beam longer than the horizontal beam). The simplest explanation of why Christians use that symbol is that such was the likely the sort of cross Christ was executed on.
But again, actually go and see the relevant C.E. article. It was written before you were born, and is far more elaborate than Man, Myth and Magic in discussing pagan cruciforms. So what was the Church hiding or denying, exactly?
AbuKhamrAlMaseeHee 2 years ago
within this video-i made a point-that there will be christians that will admit that the coptic cross was stolen from "pagans". but will they admit that the most traditional cross of christianity is, too, a stolen symbol of "pagans"?
RebelAllianceMedia 2 years ago
RAM, but your question begs the following question: /was/ the most traditional cross stolen from pagan symbols? You have not demonstrated that this is the case.
By the most traditional cross, I *assume* you mean the immissa (is that assumption correct?). The cruciform is already a literary symbol in the New Testament (e.g. it would be awkward to take any NT reference to the Cross and claim it's actually referring to an ankh, or the sun - they are referring the object Christ was crucified on).
AbuKhamrAlMaseeHee 2 years ago
abu, i will advise you again to learn the history of the early christian church. not just the christian literalists, but the gnostics as well. in addition, i would advise you to question why were certain nt texts burned. furthermore, there are many early church fathers that promoted christian propaganda. i know and understand why average christians believe in what they believe in regarding the cross. why were gnostics and heretics killed? why was the nag hammadi hidden for so many centuries?
RebelAllianceMedia 2 years ago
RAM, I'm always willing to learn more about Christian history, sir. However, I don't see the full relevance of your comment to this discussion. For example, I have a mild familiarity with the Nag Hamadi texts, and some of those texts explicitly associate the cross with the crucifixion.
Yes, in Christian history there were instances of violence and censorship. But how does that answer the question of why the Cross is a Christian symbol?
AbuKhamrAlMaseeHee 2 years ago
and secondarily, how have i not demonstrated this is not the case? what are you talking about, sir? sometimes you can be a headache; i do not know if you are playing mind games or are you just intentionally denying material.
i never said the popular cross was the ankh; however, THERE ARE LITERARY SOURCES THAT SAY IN ENGLISH, ABU, THAT CHRIST WAS AN ASSOCIATION WITH THE SUN AND THE CROSS AS WELL.
do you know how your four gospels came about?
RebelAllianceMedia 2 years ago
RAM, regarding whether you have demonstrated that the Christian cross was merely stolen from pagan theology rather than being inspired by the crucifixion, your approach shows no awareness of an actual ORIGIN of a thing, on the one hand, and a person using pre-existing artistic themes and styles to /depict/ that thing, on the other. I'll try to explain this in greater detail in a forthcoming video.
And "literary sources" say all sorts of things. Let's explore and analyze them.
AbuKhamrAlMaseeHee 2 years ago
Abu the ankhs oval at the top was clipped off and made into the cross; as i said i will go into more detail in video form.
ahshar2 2 years ago
My apologies; there was a typographical error in my last comment. I meant to write something along the following lines:
"Your approach shows no awareness of *THE DISTINCTION BETWEEN* (1) the actual origin of a thing, and (2) a person using a pre-existing artistic theme or style to /depict/ that thing."
When I have time, I will attempt to expand on this theme in greater detail in a forthcoming video.
AbuKhamrAlMaseeHee 2 years ago
so next example, if egypt came up with a name amen for their god or whatever, then the hebrews came and took the name but made it mean something else, something less then the egyptians had made it for and because they made the name less then what it is and taught us that it has no importance, then do you think that was right or wrong for what they did purposely.
the reason why origins should be followed because that is when god was there (based on the bible story. etc) & its the first, no 2nd
chambers396 2 years ago
lets say adam came on the scene and named the long tall thing on the ground and called it tree, then later down in history, someone decided to change the name of it and then try to make the world forget the original name of that thing, are you telling me that is right, we should follow the second meaning which is not irrevelent.
no i don`t think you would do that because then your trying to say that adam thoughts are not important and god being with adam at the time is not important to you.
chambers396 2 years ago
in addition, Abu, this kind of behavior is known as copy-right infringement and plagiarism. of course, such ideas were not incorporated in those days; however, why is it that the rule does not apply?
if you had a symbol, custom, tradition, or whatever and it meant this and i turn around, steal your symbol, etc and give it a new meaning without ever acknowledging the source, are you telling me there is nothing wrong with that, abu? honestly?
RebelAllianceMedia 2 years ago
there is a reason the average christian, jew or muslim is ignorant to the history of their symbols, customs and traditions. if they were to find out the truth concerning this matter, more than likely, they will respond like myself and the markzman and become apostatized.
the early church spent years concealing the truth about the original teachings of christ. gnostics were ex-communicated and killed. then that library surfaced in the late 1940's.
RebelAllianceMedia 2 years ago
whats up abu
yes that is what i`m saying. like for example your parents name you abu and lets say it had a meaning to that name, that belong only to your ethnicity or language, no one else has it. but later on, another ethnicity heard the name, liked it and decided to name their child that but change the meaning of it and called it original. are you telling me that even though the other person stoled you name and claim it as their own, that their both right in their own way.
chambers396 2 years ago
CHAMBERS, I asked if you were saying that if someone assigns a different meaning to a symbol, that is irrelevant, because the only meaning that is possible is the original one. You exact answer was "yes that is what i`m saying".
So, then, with regard to the cross, the only possible meaning, according to your logic, is the FIRST meaning intended by the first person to create or draw one. Do you have any idea what that FIRST meaning was? What's your evidence? I look forward to your answer.
AbuKhamrAlMaseeHee 2 years ago
RAM, you positively asserted that the STARTING POINT for the cross is pagan theology. That would mean the first ever cross was made with a pagan theological intention. What's your evidence for this? Pagan cruciforms predate Christian cross, but this does not mean any particular pagan cruciform we know of is the ORIGINAL cross. For example, in the history of our species, George Washington predates both you and me. But Washington is not the STARTING POINT or ORIGIN of our species. Understand?
AbuKhamrAlMaseeHee 2 years ago
I don't know if we should wear a cross shape or not, but I see the scriptures mention that we should bear the burden of what Christ went through for us.
John 19:19
And Pilate wrote a title, and put it on the cross. And the writing was JESUS OF NAZARETH THE KING OF THE JEWS.
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Luke 14:27
And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.
ROBRIOIO 2 years ago
I mean bear the burden that comes with accepting what Christ went thru for us, and following him.
ROBRIOIO 2 years ago
Philippians 2:8
And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
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Hebrews 12:2
Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
ROBRIOIO 2 years ago
I think maybe you are focusing on the word Christinaity, when your real question is of which cross are you the enemy. As far as what Christianity reps, that predates the cross, and following Christ comes with being willing to stand for the truth, and carry the struggle of the cross. Not to make it sound less than what it is, but I think the Cross is in many ways a type of very hard struggle.
ROBRIOIO 2 years ago
i think when the icgjc named me the enemy of the cross, i think they meant the "cross christ was crucified" on, sir.
nice to see you again, robrioio
RebelAllianceMedia 2 years ago
Thanks.
I see the point your making about the wood that Christ was crucified on, but I think the cross that Christ was crucified on reps something more deep than it being a wooden shape that was used before he was crucified on it. So being against the cross as it pertains to Jesus I think would be being against going through the struggle that comes with following Jesus Christ. So bearing your cross is like accepting the burden that comes at you when you follow Christ. And Christ went thru it.
ROBRIOIO 2 years ago
Now, again, the real question is why is the cross a Christian symbol? The simplest (and most obvious) answer is because Christ was executed on a cross. As a result, the cross became a symbol of Christ's sacrifice, and thus central to the Christian faith. From there, throughout history, different Christians have appropriated and reinterpeted cruciforms in light of their faith (this includes everything from, yes, the ankh, to the famous World Trade Center cross).
AbuKhamrAlMaseeHee 2 years ago
we discoursed this before, abu in which i told you why is it is popularly accepted as christ being executed on a cross and what not-that is the story told and accepted by popular christianity. in addition, what about the christians that did not take the christ story literal; that knew christ was figurative? what of them? they were all ran off by people such as your tertullian, theodosius and the rest of the christian literalist.
RebelAllianceMedia 2 years ago
I cited Benson *before* beginning my actual argument, because he was only used to make a point about how your question was poorly worded. Nobody (including you) knows the ORIGIN of the geometric shape we call the cruciform or cross. The real question is why the cross is a Christian symbol. But you just waved Benson off in toto, without even looking at his book, simply because he said something you didn't like (even though what he wrote was OBVIOUSLY true). That is bias on your part.
AbuKhamrAlMaseeHee 2 years ago
Around 7:45, you claim I used a Christian apologetic source which says we don't know the *ORIGIN* of the cross. With all due respect, you show your own bias by waving the source off like that. GW Benson's book was a source for Man, Myth & Magic's article. Much of the book covers pre-Christian, pagan religious usages of cruciforms. But he was using the word "origin" properly. Origin would be the beginning, the start. Do you know the origin of the cross?
AbuKhamrAlMaseeHee 2 years ago
yes, the beginning and starting point of the cross is not christianity, but pagan "theology".
i have waved off my sources that would ONLY incline the cross is christian oriented with no "pagan" influence. i would do such a thing because such sources are not credible.
RebelAllianceMedia 2 years ago
Greetings Gentlemen. You keeping asking if the cruciform predates Christianity, and the answer is obviously yes. My first video on the subject said such, and when Kahanyah commented on your response to my first video, he also told you that my video said as much. Do you honestly believe the point of contention between us on this subject is whether or not there were pre-Christian crosses? We don't disagree on that point. We never have.
AbuKhamrAlMaseeHee 2 years ago
hey, abu.
RebelAllianceMedia 2 years ago
and i do not mock or insult anyone when i acknowledge that they make up the majority of our listeners. i am merely acknowledging our listeners-whether they are israelites, greeks, jews, christians, atheists-whatever. i only show appreciation.
RebelAllianceMedia 2 years ago
Yea, i noticed RAM is rehashing a settled issue (cruciform predates xtianity.) Abu, I would venture to say theyre creating a strawman to browbeat you LOL!
kahanyah 2 years ago
abu is not our only listener. this is edification for the ignorant. do not flatter yourself, kid.