Magick and Causality (the video with TWO blacklights)

[RzaChess]

So no fire balls?

[andy32capp]

Fuck magick, I'll take the art of avarice.

[ArmchairOccultist]

It's unfortunate that I did actually hang around until the end. You could have summed that up in 2 minutes no problem man. Regardless, it was thoroughly explained... make more videos!

[MATEOTL86]

Sigh. I wanted to summon Forass so he can make me invisible. Daaamn.

[Mequa32]

Actually JK, if human psychology operates in a (largely) causal or deterministic way, I see no reason why performing 'magical' rituals would not influence one's own psyche in a causal manner. (Even from a crudely reductionistic physicalist stance, the brain's activity through the body [e.g. via ritualized autosuggestion] may feed back and influence the brain.)

Or is that no longer considered magic?

Oh, and ONA metaphysics? Really?

[TheZebu]

By "Myatt" do you refer to David Myatt (who never really mentions magic per se) or ONA material under the name of "Anton Long"-- who incidentally does imply that magic can produce material results?

I guess I'm just asking for YOUR view on magic, or do we have to wait for a follow-up video?

[Deophagy]

I'd agree with that.. Though I would be reluctant to limit magic to only being a placebo.

[darksoulsinside]

Perhaps a good example of mind actually having physical causality in a "magical" context would the placebo effect.

[Deophagy]

Sorry, I was responding while watching the vid and accidentally posted before proof-reading but I think you get my point.

[Deophagy]

Hey King, its Athiel. I haven't felt the need to respond to any of your vids, but thought I might be able to offer something to this: I agree with your premise of closed causal chains, but would argue that magic is an unknown quantity in the causal chain. Whether its physical or psychological is immaterial. Its the bit of the chain in a complex chain that can't be accounted for... the butterfly effect, essentially. Its not directly causal because it is a very minor part in a large chain.

[Jarrod6757]

Ahhh Venus Satanas

shes got you whooped on views and comments

hell even beavus fucking zach has you whooped

you've done dug your own grave of irrelevancy

[DarkF00L]

L-O-V-E-D this video. When I made claims about success in rituals, there were other factors that weren't really discussed (partly due to the fact that the audience and/or interviewers didn't bring up).

The conditions were already in place. The rituals were an act of "letting go", and for allowing the subconscious mind to run its course. The clues to the ritual's effectiveness lie within the so-called "coincidences". As I said before, Magick/ritual is the last step after all is completed.

[SingularityMedia]

However, saying what I have said, I`m not arguing FOR magic(K). I think lesser magick can be useful, but I see little difference between that and meditation. But yeah, I have a habit of teasing those who REALLY believe, normally with constant requests to be hexed. As yet, I have not been struck by lightening, or had my face turn into a festering boil, much to the frustration of some magickians I`m sure.

[SingularityMedia]

I sort of agree with you. But you are massively oversimplifying causality. If you look at weather systems, for example, the causal effect is not so simple, or obvious. There are many types of causality, such as probabilistic causality. And of course causality is thrown to the dogs in quantum mechanics. So really, what influence can a thought have on reality, indirectly. That movement of electrons through synapses, what chain does that set up?

[TheManiacalSatanist6]

You can't argue that magick has no effect in the real if you believe that reality is perceptive.

Sorry. You fail.

[Kavbojus]

So, since you've mentioned Myatt/Long at the end, how do you imagine the ties between the causal and acausal? In some Myatt's writings, it is clearly stated that acausal (magical) can manifest in causal (physical) universe and hence make a physical (but, probably, an uncontrolled and chaotic; hence not about winning lottery) changes.

[Jarrod6757]

@Kavbojus Good synopsis and making this video moot But i believe for the greater part ona are specific in there collective goals? And they say they have been around 50 years so they claim? No proof of any success yet.. So am i pulling a j/k in denying the existance or asking for proof? No i'm denying the practitioner.. You either have it you don't Why choose some one elses paradigm such as the ona's acausal to explain your thoughts on the matter Who by the way have shown no proof ?

[johnniechains]

LMFAO, you MUST be an electrician. Damn, you are an idiot.

[satanicinternational]

Thats it ....it is ON!

[joker4anarchy]

Jason I think I didn't use the dictionary again...my spelling and grammar are off...you would think in this day and age I would use spell check...

[joker4anarchy]

I tried sexual magic once and got a girl pregnant...is that causal? No because I found out later I wasn't the kids father lol

[joker4anarchy]

@joker4anarchy Sorry Jason I didn't use a dictionary ...I spelled magick wrong....

[joker4anarchy]

Jason at least now you are discussing something half intelligent...sorry for some of the rude shit I said about you even for a Satanist I guess that's kind of low....Yes I did skim through your book on Post Modern Satanism only because I usually do that with books to see if there is even a point of reading it....and I saw no point, no offence... too much reading to little fucking time makes me even wonder what is the point now with Wikipedia and all that ....

[shawneci]

As shocking as it may be yes there are people usng magick to get money everyday however they wouldn't use the lottery necessarily.

Can spells get physical casuality? - short answer is yes.

Can this be repeated under scientifc scrutiny. short answer is yes. shockin i know it.

Basically magick is not about only inflicting your will on reality its much easier if you get help from somewhere...can't do everything by ourselves...its highly guarded information your talking about iyou may never know.

[jason666king]

Well, I respectfully disagree as stated in this video. Making bold claims with no evidence is not the same as proving one's point. Following that up with special pleading to the existence of secret information is even worse.

Please note, I'm not saying magick doesn't "work," only that it is not able to be fit into a model of physical causality. Such a claim mistakes what each notion actually refers to. If a causal chain were complete, magick would be superfluous; if incomplete, then impotent.

[shawneci]

@jason666king also it takes many years to develop the knowledge and ability to do this - id say only a few hundred people on earth or much less can reproduce results - it isnt fundamental basic magic rituals and spells - this is very advanced hardcore witchcraft it takes serious dedication - you wont see it on tv and you wont hear about it on the news. its a very ancient thing people have known this for thousands of years but now the blinds have been pulled over your eyes - id just stay asleep.

[Jarrod6757]

but it could also be a way to guard against some seriously black magick person coming after your shit too ..

well we don't believe in magick lol i don't think it matters much a christian or an atheist can get seriously fucked up

if you where given some proof we'd never know because your too prideful to admit your own paradigm kicked your ass and now your a bitter old sourpuss lol

[TheIchor]

@jason666king

You just missed the third side there, hoss. And... that is where you fail.

VS



[jason666king]

@shawneci

"they wouldn't use the lottery necessarily"

IF magick WERE physically causal, then this would be the single most efficient way to make money. That's why I picked the example. Same argument holds for "fortune tellers". The proof is in the pudding. Find me someone who has won three mega-jackpot lotteries in their life and I'll concede the point. Until then, consider me unconvinced by hypotheticals, hearsay, colloquialisms and the like.

[shawneci]

@jason666king theres people that do this for a living and are multi-millionaires. people do use it for the lottery but theres easier ways to get money than that someone can just give it to you dont even needaticket but the idea is to remain anonymous and not share your methodology. for all causes there are potentially unknown reactions - thats why we have secret societies and covens - alot of people you might not expect are mixed up in this stuff - truth is stranger than fiction...remember that.

[SPELLCASTX]

Dear Mr.King,

You absolutely, positively, post-modernly ROCK!

Well done, well done, both of you.

Thank you very much!

Good boy.

Savic Enn

Warlock

[darrylsloan]

To approach magic from another angle: "psi" or mind-matter interaction. Dean Radin puts together very compelling empirical evidence for it in his book "Entangled Minds." The problem I have with this video is that it seems to be made from the standpoint that classical physics accounts for everything about the nature of reality, when I know that you know different.

[leeheeman420]

I did a ritual to get a stick of gum, and later someone gave me a stick of gum! Can we say post hoc ergo propter hoc 3 times fast?

[satanicinternational]

@leeheeman420 Indeed . We could also drop 35 cents on the counter of a 7-11 and in less than 10 seconds get a fucking pack of gum.... ; )

[hartejoseph]

I did a simple sigil to get a chick and it worked yeah I know super low ass magic.Now the women in question didnt magically appear out of nowhere I had to get my ass over there and bring lots of booze to add too the causal chain making it in affect a ritual by itself.So whats the catch well she was going out with some other asshole at the time and I did get laid that night.So did the sigil help me get the girl?Well it was probably the booze and conversation but the sigil is still in the chain.

[garouHH]

@hartejoseph That demonstrates nicely what I'd call "the guaranteed minimal existence of magick". Even if magick shouldn't be able to break the natural unfolding of events that the magickian doesn't physically interact with, then it still is perfectly capable of changing the magickian himself to make his success in otherwise seemingly perfectly mundane endeavors more probable. Booze alone is not a sufficient condition to get a girl to lay you.

[hartejoseph]

@garouHH oh the booze definitely helped but the sigil also helped out nicely in suppressing the original desire whenever the emotion came into my head I turned it into an abstract symbol that had no real specific meaning suppressing it and making it physical.So even if I didnt get lucky it was still a useful therapy to deal with the desire that would have just recked my head and then when it had worked out anyway I had no lust of result at the time and it was all the more sweet for it.

[Avelqual]

I did watch this through, Jason. Appreciate your videos every time you uplaod one. I've been watching since you came to youtube and I still am.

[TheLordOmen]

That's true but magic is not meant to cause anything, magic has a psychological concept, some sort of a motivation!!!!! e.g u wanna get promotion in your job, u do some magic, then it makes you to work harder(if you truly believe in magic!) or you hate some you put some spell on him,and in this way you've got over your anger! But that's MY opinion! Hails

[02Blackbeard]

Of course the devotee of "physical" magic would simply say that he has found a remote way of turning on blacklights. More than one way to skin a cat.

I guess then it would be up to him to show (under experimental conditions) how this is done. If he can't replicate his supposed results then one has to remain sceptical.

What do you think of the James Randi challenge?

I think a Pt 2. to this vid would be good...."What Magic Is".

[02Blackbeard]

So, the rainmaker is wasting his time? He would do better to take a course in fixing blacklights and make some money doing something useful....correct?

[TheSpoonFedFukWit]

Great response to Cuthulu boy.

[jason666king]

@TheSpoonFedFukWit actually it wasn't directed at him.

[BespokeGroupUK]

favorited.