i see alot who want to blame others for their mistakes, not responsible enough to take responsibility for their own actions, we all have the same rules to go by, Jehovah sets it and we are to go by them
@AgapeLove2U You certainly don't need to worry about that in my case. Since leaving the JWs, my life has been much, much better. I totally accept responsibility for my own life. I don't put off planning for the future because I expect God to whisk in and solve my problems. I'm grateful that I figured out the whole thing was a sham as early as I did, at age 25. I wish you the best -- it's never to late to embrace life.
@hopefulatheist Jehovah gives me peace , love and all the fruits of his spirit, without him i am in this world lost and so unhappy, Truth isn't a sham, this world is whats the sham, al the lies people say about others, all the blaming placed on God when its them who does things, yes this world is a sham and its about to get shaken up
Read Judges Chapters 19-21. and you will see Jehovah give bad advise in 20:18, 26 that leads to the death of thousands of innocent people trying to do God's will. i don't know about you but I don't listen to people that knowingly give bad advise.
Yes just read chapters 19-21 of Judges in your very own NWT BIBLE. Not only did Jehovah purposely send more than 38,000 innocent God fearing people trying to do his will to their death, did this two times then finally the third time as it says in Judges 20:35 "And Jehovah proceeded to defeat Benjamin before Israel". So if it was JEHOVAH that defeated them the third time, WHY NOT JUST DEFEAT THEM THE FIRST TIME AND SAVE 38,000 GOD LOVING PEOPLE FROM DYING?????????????????????
@adaptiveplexus And they went on to say: “Which one out of the tribes of Israel is it that has not come up to Jehovah at Miz´pah?” And, look! no one had come into the camp from Ja´besh-gil´e·ad to the congregation. 9 When the people were counted, well, look! there was not a man there from the inhabitants of Ja´besh-gil´e·ad.
"No discipline seems for the present to be joyous, but grievous; yet afterward to those who have been trained by it it yields peaceable fruit, namely, righteousness." —HEBREWS 12:11.
deliberately avoids is shunning, Christians do what Jehovah says to do, it is something Jehovah does to teach us and he wants us to get back to him, we all are sinners but when we make a mistake we can repent, its ones who dont repent and keep doing the sin, they are the ones who disfellowship themselves from the rest
@AgapeLove2U Give me a break. Now you're just playing with words. You're saying that former Witnesses have "disfellowshipped themselves"? That is clearly not true, since the former Witnesses are happy to have relationships with their friends and family on the inside. The shunning is completely from the JW side. You cut off former Witnesses, plain and simple. You should at least admit that much, since you're eager to explain why that is such a loving arrangement.
@hopefulatheist they did the sin and didnt repent correct? they disfellowshipped themselves , they knew what would happen cause they study Jehovah's Word
@AgapeLove2U You're redefining the word "disfellowship." And you clearly have not watched and understood the video that you're replying to. I left the religion, not because I "sinned and didn't repent," but because I realized it wasn't true. This is exactly the same behavior you yourself expect of people from every other religion. I was raised in a religion that was not true, and as an adult I did the right thing and left it.
AgapeLove2U said: "they did the sin and didnt repent correct?"
A: There is no way to know the answer to that question since the elders don't say why a person is disfellowshipped and you are forbidden from speaking to the disfellowshipped person themself. People are disfellowshipped for things like disagreeing with Watchtower teachings (not a sin) all the time.
But you are REQUIRED to shun them whether or not they have sinned, because they have disfellowshipped by the elders.
12 For what do I have to do with judging those outside? Do YOU not judge those inside, 13 while God judges those outside? “Remove the wicked [man] from among yourselves.”
10 For God is not unrighteous so as to forget YOUR work and the love YOU showed for his name, in that YOU have ministered to the holy ones and continue ministering. 11 But we desire each one of YOU to show the same industriousness so as to have the full assurance of the hope down to the end, 12 in order that YOU may not become sluggish, but be imitators of those who through faith and patience inherit the promises.
"No discipline seems for the present to be joyous, but grievous; yet afterward to those who have been trained by it it yields peaceable fruit, namely, righteousness."
@ricardomathbrazil Mormons actually do not have a policy of shunning people who leave the church , they are visited even when they are hostile. Please get your facts right
@1middlesbrough Sorry, I didn't meant to imply that the Mormons don't have the policy. I guess I was trying to move the conversation out to a more neutral ground (from the perspective of Witnesses) as a thought experiment. How stringently is the shunning policy enforced in the Mormon church? I'd love to hear more about this.
A disfellowshipped family member is living with us sinners. He's working his way back in. So, I've seen this practice and it's psychological results. All I can think of is the word DEPLORABLE. I would never join a group like this that practices these kinds of freedom stripping views. Good video by the way, thoughtful and well presented. I'm sorry to hear that your mother and sister remained chained to the Bethelites.
Beautifully explained!!! Jehovah's witness, unless you do everything they say, you are THEIR enemy, I have been with them and seen it to be the case. It doesn't matter the amount of service you done previously. Once you declare you no longer believe their story as truth, their aim it to punish you....(with 'love' of coarse!)
The way the JW or Mormons would describe you not liking the car anymore is that you no longer agree with the acts that they do in their car, but they want you back for more people to be doing the "stuff" they think is right to do in their car. I would stay far away from their care. I agree with you on shunning. It is wrong. The book of 1 Corinth shun a gentleman (disfellowship) because he is having an affair with his dad's second wife (his step-mom).
By the Way, Professor Walter Veith was an Atheist too and an Evolutionist, before encountering the Seventh-Day Adventist Beliefs on Bible Prophecy. Now he is another of the most well-known Speakers for the SDA Church.
You should go to Google and type in David Asscherick and watch some of his video series. The you would see a Christian Religion that actually stands up in the face of investigation and criticism. David himself was an Atheist until he found out about the Bible Prophecies of Daniel. Now he is one of the most well-known Adventist Preachers. No other Church has public Revelation Seminars where they can be challenged.
Sir i appreciate your incredibley truthfull video blog on this matter, I regret ever having part of the cult if I myself could take it all back i would. I know full well that there is no dignifying way for one to simply leave and cut their losses. They will and do shun those who seem to or outright disagree with the direction and policies of the Governing Body. If the rank and file members learned the reality they too would leave "her", that is if they chose to listen to Jesus' instructions.
If Jehovah's Witnesses learn the truth about the Watchtower and Tract Society they will leave. The WTS's hold on people is isolation and ignorance. I remember the person that studied the 'Truth' book with me said it was important to be opened minded and listen. A JW cannot be opened minded because if they listen and hear the truth about the organization they will leave it. 1874, 1914, 1925, 1975, and much more.
@megthepearl Thanks for your comment. It would certainly be nice if you only shunned people who shunned you, but that's not how it works. I have never shunned a single JW, but they universally shun me, because they are instructed to do so by headquarters. If you feel this is wrong, then I encourage you to directly talk to your local elders about it -- I guarantee you will find yourself in hot water if you don't toe the party line.
Your statement is so stupid I had to comment. If you walk away. The elders will and try to convince you to return. They may do this several times but if you will not agree to return you will be disfellowshiped and shunned. You must be connected with the witnesses by trying to discredit someone who leaves.
Good thats how it is, why are you complaining? We dont want our congregations or our young ones being contaminated from those who should of known better. You left the "Truth." Jehovah has to keep his people safe and clean from the world and you have decided to be a part of it, a part of Satans world. Move on or repent and return before its too late.
@trappedwarrior. Please dont be blinded by Satan and his evil System of Things. Its only normal for you to comment to me in this way as you havent seen the Truth that is before us all. Why not visit one of your local Kingdom Halls and see for yourself that Jehovah and his people care for all. You will receive a warm welcome. Hurry before this wicked world is destroyed and enter the New World with us where we can return the earth to how it was intended to be, a Paradise.
the shunning is inhumane - i don't even want to think of lives destroyed and lost because of it. i am also concerned with the hidden abuse (2 people have to witness an event to report it), and the lives lost because of the blood policy (based on 2 literal scripture interpretations) people are destroyed here...i don't think general population understands fully what's going on, and young ones baptized, making such decisions- we need "full disclosure laws" to protect people.
@corkbab they trick people at the door, and some are in too deep before they realize. Love your car sales example. You are very truthful, smart and articulate..a great addition to society! I believe in a God, whether i feel becuz ive always been taught that, i don't know...i simply feel it, at it gives me hope and happiness - i love church ritual/traditions - it brings be close to may family, and has helped me when i felt alone..sociologists/anthropoligists would agree it is a need for many.
@corkbab unfortunately religion has destroyed many lives. a lot is just a fairy tale, but often its how people/cultures make sense of their lives - atheism itself is a culture, a way of thinking. i want to respect people's beliefs...but it's hard when so many are destructive and controlling..i cant respect jws, and i think their policies are actually criminal. im rambling..so...thank you for your vids! you are inspiring - even to God-believers. All should be open to listening to other views.
@trappedwarrior I think that is mostly correct. Mostly correct, in that many ideologies are mostly religious. Religion is about rebinding the soul with god. The things to investigate are "Is there a soul" and "Is there a god". Then you need to make your own mind up. I prefer atheism, but that is just me.. Take care and good luck.
here in the Bahamas a good number of JWs don't practice shunning in its true form. I'm not sure about the rest of the Caribbean. Many of my JW relatives continue to speak, greet & eat with & even sleep over with disfellowshipped relatives. I think they just find it difficult to do or conceive of.
If someone chooses to shun another person on their own, that's their own business and maybe justifiable. But being obligated to shun another, because direction from an organization is absolutly wrong and unchristian.
Brilliantly put! There has been such fear placed in the hearts of JW's that there is no room for integrity accept to the doctrine. Free thinking is not allowed yet is one of the greatest gifts the Creator bestowed, for we are not animals. I hope your message reaches others such as ourselves to investigate for themselves what we were not told. In the end, we all stand alone in judgement.
@iNsOmNiAcAnDrEw The "bad association" scripture is used almost exclusively for "worldly" association, and sometimes for fringe people in the congregation. For people who leave the religion, they break out the big guns, like 2 John 10-ish, which says that saying a greeting makes you a sharer in "his evil acts." And yes, you can definitely be DF'd for associating with people who leave the religion. If you doubt this, I invite you to tell your local elders that you are have an ex-JW buddy.
@hopefulatheist family are obligated to help eachother out. of course you're going to be disfellowshipped if you do things that are bad in god's eyes and aren't sorry about it. what about a disfellowshipped person do you think could possibly explain why they wouldn't be considered "worldly" association? worldly people are those who let themselves be influenced by the ruler of the world, satan the devil. if you're in opposition to god, then you're influenced by him, thus worldly.
@iNsOmNiAcAnDrEw I'm saying that regular non-JWs are treated completely differently from ex-JWs. And the word "worldly" is typically used to refer to the former, not the latter. If Witnesses treated ex-JWs like regular non-JWs, that would be fine by me. Instead, they direct Witnesses to "not even say a greeting."
@hopefulatheist you're thinking of apostates. disfellowshipped ones are either worldly or apostate. if they're apostate, that means we don't greet them. in those days the normal way of greeting was a like like the english phrase, 'you're welcome'. it was a hospitable greeting. we wouldn't invite apostates into our home. whether a person is disfellowshipped or not is just a detail. being an apostate, however, is a super huge deal and not to be taken lightly. there are actually very few of
@iNsOmNiAcAnDrEw What you are saying is simply not factually true. Look at the link in the video. It's laid out explicitly: Do not fellowship, eat, or even say a greeting to disfellowshipped people. See paragraphs 2-4.
@iNsOmNiAcAnDrEw What a sad brainwashed state to let a Cult such as the Cult of Jehovah Witness tell you who and who not to speak too. Their shunning tactics destroy whole families it's so hateful. And I'm glad JW Jokes are being exposed for what they really are; a Lying Trash Cult. I don't even acknowledge their twisted terminology such as disfellowshipped and apostate the same as I don't acknowledge racist terms like the N word. The Cult of JW are so full of separatism and hate!
@iNsOmNiAcAnDrEw The Cult Elders speak about information straight from the Cult's headquarters the WTO They verbally demonize anyone who is not a Jehovah Witness. They brain wash their children and pressure them using scare tactics into taking the big plunge! The cult of JW is really disgusting and needs to be exposedm This is a wonderful video love it! In fact the Cult of JW constantly speaks against higher forms of educations right in their Churches I mean "Kingdom Halls" Ha! JW's are Liars!
excellent! I'm sorry about the way you are treated. It's not right. I am a Witness. I can't tell anyone what I really believe because I will be shunned. I make videos that don't necessarily reflect my personal beliefs in God, but that may help those with that kind of belief. you are a fine representation of brothers who have real integrity.
Every religion is different. I don't agree with atheist but I do agree that it is not ok for people to shunn others because they have dropped from their church or have lost their faith.
That is not something that I have heard of as a protocal in any christian church until now. I'm sorry that you are going through this and I hope that this has not influenced your decision to become atheist or any type of religion.
All I can say every church/organization is ran different at all locations some are more stricter than others. Too uptight or more layed back. Judging by the way you sound/are, your congregation is more elitist uptight.. if you were inner city it would be looked as "you possibly come back later after you get your mind clear or learn hard" as opposed to your more suburban congregation/family being like "how dare you question society! I will not be embarrassed along with you son/friend."
..good standing members weren't so scared/intimidated and used better judgement on reproved or DFd members. Hopeful I am part of your word of atheist or agnostic thinking currently my wife does not regret marrying me during her DFing and (even though not admitted) actually embraces my strength & outlook on things. I dont force my thinking and vise versa fortunately it's never been an issue. I even hanged out with them and got invited several times to places..
..lunching with mother, sister, cousins still. They asked what happened and whatnot. So I think a lot of members and family take it tooo extreme to totally right off family. You can't be counseled but never reproved or DF for talking to a DF person. Just like you can't be DFd for getting tattoos. I will agree with you a lot of them are unhappy and depressed, my wife was depressed when I met her but I am not the overbearing i'm head type of husband. The religion would be fine if...
hopeful, what you fail to realize is that everyone has there own way of worship. my wife is a JW, she was DFd for sexual reason prior to me meeting her. She eventually went back on her own to be reinstated. During her DF her family still talked to her and was around her, YES weird especially when her sister was a pioneer and her father was a ministerial servant. Although WT looks down upon this because of possible stumbling they still stayed in contact of course no parties but lunching...
I was raised a JW for my whole life. Left at 20ish and the last 15 years I have been out, it has been the best part of my life. I am glad they shun. I always had a feeling that they were weird and wacky, even as a child. I haven't seen or heard from my whole family for 15 years. Thank God....lol. I can't stand those silly JW's. Starting over in life was the best thing I ever did. Being an atheist is the best and most honest thing I could have ever done. The journey has been amazing.
Remember leaders of different Christian sects, the will of God is undivided Christianity. Give up your churches, no more Catholic, Protestants, Adventist, JW etc. If you think that I am wrong then prove that you are right. Ive asked the Lord for the two simultaneous explosion of volcano in the U.S. within this month of December, pray that it wouldnt happen, if despite of your prayer it does happen, then know that God is with me therefore you have to listen to me.
Thank you for your comment. I would be very interested to know just a few of the infinitive alternatives, and which denominations adhere to them.
Also, it is rather curious that now you believe that no religion has it right. Does that mean that after nearly 2000 years, no Christian religion has valid teachings?
It sounds like you are working from several assumptions: 1) that there is a God 2) that God is as we imagine in the Western world, 3) that the Bible is a special communication from that being, and 4) that there is a religion today that has a special claim to being "true."
It's possible that any one of those assumptions is not true, which would open up myriad other possibilities. (Seriously, use your imagination here--there are a ton of them.)
To your question about my views regarding Christian religions, no, I don't believe any religion--Christian or otherwise--has teachings that accurately reflect reality. There are certainly themes such as love for neighbor that I can wholeheartedly endorse. But I don't think any religion has any basis to claim that it has special knowledge of what happens after death, what God is like, etc, etc. (See my other videos if you'd like to get a longer answer on this.)
But what I have great difficulty with, is to leave off what I have learned, and go back to believing that if I get it wrong, a loving God will punish me forever and ever in an indescribable hellfire. I could not do that to an enemy. In addition, in order for that to happen, I would have to live forever, which if I don't put faith in Jesus, is impossible. I just could not worship that kind of a God.
I think you're creating a false dichotomy. There is no need to choose between believing in hellfire and believing that the JWs are correct. In fact, there are infinite other alternatives. I personally believe that no religions are correct, but that's just me. The important thing is to think slowly and rationally about all the possibilities.
I think your video was honest, well presented and heartfelt. However, one thing that I never seem to see, is about the kind of people that are actually JWs. Probably the finest people that I know in the community. (Not that they are the only ones.)
Hi, and thanks for your comment. The JWs certainly do try to cultivate a squeeky clean public image. However, as their shunning policy itself illustrates, not everything is as they would like to project. I think if you make more than a cursory examination, you would find serious problems in the culture of the religion. (Too many to list here--perhaps I'll do a future video on the topic.)
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
JW do not mistreat thos who leave. We want them to return to the truth and we care for them. This guy clearly hates God and wants to spread lies. This is his choice. God loves his children and wnats us to survive and live forever. Do not be put off by this apostate and his attempts to convert people to a life of hoplessness.
If you're dreaming because I would like to believe so. When I left I was mistreated whereas they acted like I didn't exist. Oh, the dude in the video is telling the truth.
I finally read the info you submitted, and I found nothing wrong with it. As I said before, it tells you to limit contact with family members. The severing is to be done with disfellowshipped people in the congregation, and it also explains why. Nowhere does the document instruct you to treat a family member the way you described. The reality is some people are drama queens and blow things way out of proportion.
"The situation is different if the disfellowshipped or disassociated person is not living at home...It might be possible to have almost not contact at all with the relative....Loyal Christians should strive to avoid needless association...even keeping business dealings to an absolute minimum."
Translation: If you spend any social time with such a relative, you are a disloyal JW.
Depends on your interpretation of the words, "needless association." I doubt if emotional support is considered needless. I also noticed in your summary you left out the scripture used to justify these actions. This IS a RELIGIOUS organization, and the scriptural basis IS the reason behind it. As for loyalty, read the definition, and try to understand what it means to be loyal. Would you really want to be known for kicking it with a bunch a sellouts? They might sell you out next.
Terrible for those who have to go through this. thankfully my family is out too and my closest friends were always non-witnesses anyway. A loving God wouldn't want us to shun family. It seems that most cults practice both separation from the world and shunning. This is a deadly combination as it leaves one without a support system on the outside and more likely to fall into depression and suicide.
the truth is with CHRIST..not when MEN..when Peter asked Jesus to WHOM they should go to when he leaves..who did Jesus point out to? to some man made organization or to himself..The parable of the Faithful and Discreet - is not about an organization but YOU..why notice the other servant..ANYONE can be that...and since anyone can be the other servant so can one be of the Faithful and Discreet servant...
What you fail to see is a relationship w/ Jehovah is above all else. So, if YOU personally decide to leave Him, why should I do the same? I can't control your actions, we all have free will. Just as in the Bible God's people were not to associate with certain ones who did not worship the true God, I do the same.
I don't think you've considered the possibility that your religion is simply not true. For me, leaving the religion was the only moral and conscientious choice I could make, based on my honest appraisal that it was not the truth.
Imagine you were raised to believe in Santa Claus, but at some point you figured out he wasn't real. Should your parents and siblings cut you off because you have a chance of opinion?
Well that is your opinion then. I do believe it is true. You can't possibly compare a relationship with our Creator, Jehovah... to Santa Claus. But if we're going on analogies... if you see a piece of candy on the ground that is covered in dirt.. do you need to taste it to make sure it is dirty? I don't need to examine other religions to know their false. I just go by what the Bible says. Good day to you.
I don't see the error in not socializing with someone who commits gross sin and is not remorseful of their behavior. Read 1Cor 15: 33. By not associating with them you are showing the person that you do not condone their behavior and you don't want it rubbing off on you. Seems like a spiritually correct move. 1 Cor 5: 1,2 is worth reading also.
When my immediate family cuts me off totally -- for a change of opinion, not for any actual hurtful behavior -- it is simply unhealthy. The effect of shunning is to emotionally blackmail people to stay inside the organization, even if they begin to suspect it is not true. "What are you going to do, leave? Then kiss your friends and family goodbye." It's the same dynamic as in an abusive relationship.
Turning your back on your own family is extreme. Social contact should just be limited not avoided. Common sense. Where is the love? Don't blame the organization for zapping cancers before they spread, blame your family for a lack of good moral judgement. As for friends, the way they shun you defines their character, it is possible to communicate with someone on topics other than religion. Minus worldly things, the dialogue may be brief. However, their humility shows where their heart is.
Then it would appear that you disagree with the WT on this score too. It's true that the official directives go back and forth, but the hardline instructions explicitly say to cut family off. Look up the article in KM around 2002/2003, where it excoriates someone who believed she could maintain contact with her fleshly sister, and commends someone else for cutting off contact. I believe the exact words are, "it should be possible to have almost no contact."
Just to let you know, I didn't vote your comment down. But regarding your scriptural base for the comments, two things to think about:
1. Quoting from your holy book doesn't prove anything. Would you consider the matter settled just because someone quoted from some other book (say, the Koran) to "prove" something?
2. It's trivial to find a text to support just about anything. You could easily support slavery from the Bible, etc. You need better reasons than "the Bible says so."
Read between the lines. I was not "proving" anything, just giving examples. The fact is, if you associate with people their habits rub off. It could be their dialect, mannerisms, or way of thinking. Whatever it is, positive or negative, it WILL efect you in some way. As for slavery, the Bible does give guidelines as to how to treat slaves. Too bad the "man" glossed over that part. Can you really point out a principal in the Bible, that when applied, is not beneficial to those reading it?
Sure, how about the fact that the Bible condones slavery at all? In case you imagine that it was merely an employer-employee relationship, check out Exodus 21:20-21, which allows an owner to beat slaves to within an inch of their lives. I'm guessing you don't expect to be beaten at your place of employment.
Don't you consider rationalizing slavery at all to be "glossing over" a serious deficiency in biblical morality?
That was written for a totally different crowd, but even in that instance there were consequences if the owner killed the slave. The way the society was structured, it was completely fair. The Mosaic law was good and firm, right to the point, no appeals, or hung juries. Anyone reading it in the present would benefit from acknowledging its fairness and efficency. Besides, we are all slaves. Either to God or Satan, you are working for one or the other, whether you admit it or not.
Well, you are obviously pointing out that a religious group practices shunning. So, in this instance, wouldn't examples from the book they use as a guide justify why they do it? i would not consider slavery supportable.If you read the beginning, these are guidelines for a Hebrew slave in particular. Further in it says anyone who kidnaps a man and sells him is to be put to death. The slaves of that time were people sold for debts owed, and were due release after 6 years.Nothing like the south.
You're still rationalizing a system that provided for legalized assault on other human beings, with only the most basic restraints such as "don't actually kill them."
So your only qualms about this is that it is in the Bible and accoring to you it is something cruel and should not be tolerated? Well, you described it well when you called it a system. It worked for their particular society in that time period. For someone to adapt that to the present and justify it because it is in the Bible is just unintelligent.
My point was simply, if you're going to try to convince people that shunning is the right thing to do, it needs to be demonstrable in some way that is apparent to people who don't already believe the way you do.
For example, suppose a fundamentalist of another stripe tried to show you the correctness of killing all infidels based on some reading of the Koran. It might be convincing to him, but it wouldn't be convincing to you or anyone else.
Well the facts point to people taking on the traits of the ones they associate with. You don't have to be religious to know that. You yourself would not associate with thugs and hoodlums would you? Even though they may benifit from your company, you avoid them like the plague. Wouldn't that be considered shunning? I am sure you have convinced yourself it is the right thing to do. How would you justify this to someone else?
Honestly, if someone doesn't want to hang out with me because they don't like me, that's fine. I'm an adult, I can deal with it. My problem is with the enforced separation of family members. You and I both know that if a Watchtower came out tomorrow saying that JW mothers should feel free to talk to their former-JW sons, if they so choose, that the phones would be ringing off the hook the next day. The WT itself causes the division by explicitly saying not to have contact.
I think it's wrong for **the WT Society** to tell **its members** not to have contact with their family members, under the threat of their own expulsion.
A married couple with only one person that is a witness is not supposed to talk to eachother? This is all lame. I need the name and date of the publication that suggested this extreme demand. It seems that if you sever all contact, you would not have a chance to change their mind. Sort of counterproductive. I recall limiting social contact being the wording in something i read recently.
It's probably not realistic for a married couple not to speak, although I understand that the policy certainly introduces some awkwardness. However, for parent-child and sibling relationships, especially when not living under the same roof, the policy is in full force.
I updated the description to the right of the video to include a link to a scan of the KM I mentioned in the video. Please note in particular the section starting at paragraph 9.
A Cult is a church or an organization with a Messiah Complex. Salvation comes from Christ alone. I hope you find freedom in Christ. Please do not let a Cult turn you off from God. Love Lea
Thankyou for sharing this. What you said is spot-on.
"Love is patient and kind; love does not envy or boast; it is not arrogant or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; it does not rejoice at wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth. Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. Love never ends."
Love your videos. I was never officially a Witness. Not believing in any God helped me from ever being baptized. I just attended and went in service for the first 15 years of my life. I moved out at 15 to my unbelieving Aunt's house. The shunning actually started before I even stopped going to the 3 meetings a week or service. It was amazing. I lost half of my family while living the life of a nun. I'm forever glad that my sister a former pioneer escaped with me. I couldn't lose my best friend.
I was raised from birth a JW. For 20 years I went door to door, gave talks, microphone carrier, opperated, sound department, ran the magazine counter, was a regular publisher, pioneered for many years as a teen, even though I knew it was wrong, but my childhood brainwashing was stronger. My father was an elder and my mother was a pioneer. It has been 15 years sence I left and havnt spoken to my family or friends. What a relief. A huge burden was taken off my shoulders. What a relief.
I know what you mean i am disfellowshipped too and its been over 10 years i feel its a relief but i still feel hurt to be viewed as a bad person even though I have tried to better my life i will never be accepted by my family. But then who wants to be accepted by that? still it hurts that your own family can act like that
JW's are taught to have a closed mind. They are not encouraged to think for themselves. And, they are made to believe that they can't live without the orginization. The organization is a big bully controlling the lives of JWs. It's nothing but a cult.
Everyone is saying "Poor Ex-JWs." "My how JWs are controlled & that they are missing out on true freedom." My question is what are they missing out on exactly? What freedoms are they losing? What are they being controlled by? A clean conscience? Happiness? And yes, we've all heard the "Controlled by the WT" answer, that seems to be the only argument, but what better options can you nice Youtubers provide? Does anyone have a video for that? Anyone? Yes? No? Maybe? Ready? Discuss..
Thank you for your comment. Primarily they are missing out on the ability to exercise their consciences. As a JW, your own conscience is actually basically non-existent because you are required to accept the decisions of the WT Society on most matters. Sure, there are a few "conscience matters," but for most issues your role is simply to accept (and learn to defend as ably as possible) the views given to you. Thus there is not much place for true exercise or growth of conscience.
A clean conscience!?! Huh! The amount of JW's that remain in the 'fold' live double lives, I've seen it first hand. Happiness? Hardly, the Kingdom Halls are full of people that are depressed and unterested in what is going on around them. Christlike personalities do not radiate within this religion. Posers and hypocrites, the ones who are nice, would be nice regardless of being a JW. If anything, being a JW probably hinders them to being the truely nice people they are.
they are false when they think you are interested then if your not its the cold shoulder how bad is that? is that truely jesus dicisiples? I dont think so!
My mum associates with them all the time, and she drives me nuts, I point out how rubbish they are and she has it down pat 'oh well, everyones imperfect', ticks me off how they use that as an excuse as to why they don't live up to their own 'standards'.
Where is God in all of this? Arent the brothers supposed to show love and patience for a fallen brother? Arent they supposed to be a support group to strengthen and guide and not a group that exercises mind and speach control over its members? Are they to be feared and revered as if they were God himself?
I am so angered by the witnesses. They stopped studying with me when I adamantly told them I wanted to study the scriptures only..no watchtower or books. Never again recieved a call.
The venomous bite of a J.W. defender, not all, can be as bitter & nasty as that of those whom they say attack them. So, what makes some hateful and cruel remarks any different from those who defend their's? What is it from these hateful & cruel reactions that we are suppose to learn? What goes around comes around? As has been proven over & over again, retaliation doesn't work. Love works! Please, I have met many wonderful J.W. whom I have much respect and love for. Not all retaliate.
It's child abuse for a parent to damage a child's spiritual development, yet many religions encourage parents to disrespect other faiths and insist their children believe as they do, with of course the sad experiences you relate here as consequence.
I'm constantly amazed by things I hear about religions supposedly based upon Jesus Christ's teachings.
My brother and I both left in 1988. I did because I stopped believing it, he did because he had a girlfriend. He preempted hia disfellowshipping by writing a letter of resignation. In the 20 years hence he has had a very rocky, usually non existent relationship with my (in good standing, married to an elder) Mother. I never wrote any notes so she treated me differently, yet I said some of the most blasphemous things to her face.
Last year I got wind that she was going to disinherit us and give whatever estate she had to the WT. My memory of the bible tells me that disinheritance is about the strongest rebuke you can deliver short of death. I called her out on it. She evaded the question, so I have joined my brother and cut ties with her.
Here's the kicker. She maintains a relationship with my exwife, who in 1990 switched from JW to being a Mormon.
They are all hypocrites. I had one sister look straight through me while she went shopping with her daughter, who lives in her house with her 'worldly' boyfriend, they share the daughter and boyfriend share the same room but of course! they don't have 'sexual relations', oh no, never!!! ummmm, ok.
Where as I have just quietly left (cos it's nonsense) and I'm treated like a lepor.
And what's more, they all have time for my mother, who has studied like 5 times!!! and never made any progress, but hey, she attends some meetings and puts her hand up and answers so she is good company to them, even though she comes home, lights up a cigarette while humming the last song she sung at the meeting!!!???!!!! Their standards are ridiculous.
Well said mate! And very well put. Again we have a religious movement that portrays itself as one thing,when the reality is somewhat different. The JW organisations main job is to rake in mountains odf cold hard cash, to keep the seniors living in luxury-just like Scientology, mormonism, catholocism and all the other saviours of the soul that infest this world.Collectively, their hypocrisy and double standards are quite staggering. We should all stand together to rid the world of them.
Organized religion doesn't always mix well with honesty and integrity. I've got my story as you have yours, although I was raised Catholic. Today I'm with a woman who was raised Hindu, her mother is Buddhist and my eldest son (who lives here half the time) is being raised Jewish by his mother, who converted. Somehow we all get along.
I'm sorry about the pain you've had to endure. Happy to hear you've got your dad though. That's important.
I posted the scriptures to show one thing. Scripturally as long as you are not any of the things, there's no bible law for anyone to insist on following. Not all disfellowshipped people are committing terrible deeds. So that might be the only exception. As long as the person does not "beat his former brothers" would be one more exception.
I know of an elder that speaks to his disfellowshipped son. He told me straight out, "THAT IS MY SON !!!" I agree with him. So it's true that you can make that choice outside of the meeting. I stand by that elder 100 percent. I believe it's still a PERSONAL CHOICE.
Again, good for you, and good for that elder. You guys are rebels, though. Think about it this way: Would you feel comfortable openly mentioning watching these videos, or hanging out with a former Witness, with the other elders in your congregation, or your CO?
i see alot who want to blame others for their mistakes, not responsible enough to take responsibility for their own actions, we all have the same rules to go by, Jehovah sets it and we are to go by them
AgapeLove2U 1 week ago
@AgapeLove2U You certainly don't need to worry about that in my case. Since leaving the JWs, my life has been much, much better. I totally accept responsibility for my own life. I don't put off planning for the future because I expect God to whisk in and solve my problems. I'm grateful that I figured out the whole thing was a sham as early as I did, at age 25. I wish you the best -- it's never to late to embrace life.
hopefulatheist 1 week ago
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AgapeLove2U 4 days ago
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@hopefulatheist Jehovah gives me peace , love and all the fruits of his spirit, without him i am in this world lost and so unhappy, Truth isn't a sham, this world is whats the sham, al the lies people say about others, all the blaming placed on God when its them who does things, yes this world is a sham and its about to get shaken up
AgapeLove2U 4 days ago
Read Judges Chapters 19-21. and you will see Jehovah give bad advise in 20:18, 26 that leads to the death of thousands of innocent people trying to do God's will. i don't know about you but I don't listen to people that knowingly give bad advise.
adaptiveplexus 1 day ago in playlist The Watchtower & Jehovah's Witnesses
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AgapeLove2U 11 hours ago
Yes just read chapters 19-21 of Judges in your very own NWT BIBLE. Not only did Jehovah purposely send more than 38,000 innocent God fearing people trying to do his will to their death, did this two times then finally the third time as it says in Judges 20:35 "And Jehovah proceeded to defeat Benjamin before Israel". So if it was JEHOVAH that defeated them the third time, WHY NOT JUST DEFEAT THEM THE FIRST TIME AND SAVE 38,000 GOD LOVING PEOPLE FROM DYING?????????????????????
adaptiveplexus 10 hours ago
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AgapeLove2U 11 hours ago
@adaptiveplexus And they went on to say: “Which one out of the tribes of Israel is it that has not come up to Jehovah at Miz´pah?” And, look! no one had come into the camp from Ja´besh-gil´e·ad to the congregation. 9 When the people were counted, well, look! there was not a man there from the inhabitants of Ja´besh-gil´e·ad.
AgapeLove2U 11 hours ago
@adaptiveplexus and your point is?
AgapeLove2U 11 hours ago
"No discipline seems for the present to be joyous, but grievous; yet afterward to those who have been trained by it it yields peaceable fruit, namely, righteousness." —HEBREWS 12:11.
AgapeLove2U 1 week ago
deliberately avoids is shunning, Christians do what Jehovah says to do, it is something Jehovah does to teach us and he wants us to get back to him, we all are sinners but when we make a mistake we can repent, its ones who dont repent and keep doing the sin, they are the ones who disfellowship themselves from the rest
AgapeLove2U 1 week ago
@AgapeLove2U Give me a break. Now you're just playing with words. You're saying that former Witnesses have "disfellowshipped themselves"? That is clearly not true, since the former Witnesses are happy to have relationships with their friends and family on the inside. The shunning is completely from the JW side. You cut off former Witnesses, plain and simple. You should at least admit that much, since you're eager to explain why that is such a loving arrangement.
hopefulatheist 1 week ago
@hopefulatheist they did the sin and didnt repent correct? they disfellowshipped themselves , they knew what would happen cause they study Jehovah's Word
AgapeLove2U 1 week ago
@AgapeLove2U You're redefining the word "disfellowship." And you clearly have not watched and understood the video that you're replying to. I left the religion, not because I "sinned and didn't repent," but because I realized it wasn't true. This is exactly the same behavior you yourself expect of people from every other religion. I was raised in a religion that was not true, and as an adult I did the right thing and left it.
hopefulatheist 1 week ago
@hopefulatheist read what Jehovah says about it
AgapeLove2U 4 days ago
AgapeLove2U said: "they did the sin and didnt repent correct?"
A: There is no way to know the answer to that question since the elders don't say why a person is disfellowshipped and you are forbidden from speaking to the disfellowshipped person themself. People are disfellowshipped for things like disagreeing with Watchtower teachings (not a sin) all the time.
But you are REQUIRED to shun them whether or not they have sinned, because they have disfellowshipped by the elders.
lisalisavids 5 days ago in playlist jw info and facts
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AgapeLove2U 1 week ago
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AgapeLove2U 1 week ago
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AgapeLove2U 1 week ago
12 For what do I have to do with judging those outside? Do YOU not judge those inside, 13 while God judges those outside? “Remove the wicked [man] from among yourselves.”
AgapeLove2U 2 weeks ago
10 For God is not unrighteous so as to forget YOUR work and the love YOU showed for his name, in that YOU have ministered to the holy ones and continue ministering. 11 But we desire each one of YOU to show the same industriousness so as to have the full assurance of the hope down to the end, 12 in order that YOU may not become sluggish, but be imitators of those who through faith and patience inherit the promises.
AgapeLove2U 2 weeks ago
"No discipline seems for the present to be joyous, but grievous; yet afterward to those who have been trained by it it yields peaceable fruit, namely, righteousness."
—HEBREWS 12:11.
AgapeLove2U 2 weeks ago
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AgapeLove2U 2 weeks ago
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AgapeLove2U 2 weeks ago
JW cant be shunned, they are disfellowshipped
AgapeLove2U 2 weeks ago
@AgapeLove2U Your comment seems non-sensical to me. Would you care to elaborate?
hopefulatheist 1 week ago
@ricardomathbrazil Mormons actually do not have a policy of shunning people who leave the church , they are visited even when they are hostile. Please get your facts right
1middlesbrough 1 month ago
@1middlesbrough Sorry, I didn't meant to imply that the Mormons don't have the policy. I guess I was trying to move the conversation out to a more neutral ground (from the perspective of Witnesses) as a thought experiment. How stringently is the shunning policy enforced in the Mormon church? I'd love to hear more about this.
hopefulatheist 1 week ago
A disfellowshipped family member is living with us sinners. He's working his way back in. So, I've seen this practice and it's psychological results. All I can think of is the word DEPLORABLE. I would never join a group like this that practices these kinds of freedom stripping views. Good video by the way, thoughtful and well presented. I'm sorry to hear that your mother and sister remained chained to the Bethelites.
RioAbajoBelen 4 months ago
Beautifully explained!!! Jehovah's witness, unless you do everything they say, you are THEIR enemy, I have been with them and seen it to be the case. It doesn't matter the amount of service you done previously. Once you declare you no longer believe their story as truth, their aim it to punish you....(with 'love' of coarse!)
Super4Truth 4 months ago
The way the JW or Mormons would describe you not liking the car anymore is that you no longer agree with the acts that they do in their car, but they want you back for more people to be doing the "stuff" they think is right to do in their car. I would stay far away from their care. I agree with you on shunning. It is wrong. The book of 1 Corinth shun a gentleman (disfellowship) because he is having an affair with his dad's second wife (his step-mom).
catenadine 5 months ago
I meant, "their car". :-)
catenadine 5 months ago
By the Way, Professor Walter Veith was an Atheist too and an Evolutionist, before encountering the Seventh-Day Adventist Beliefs on Bible Prophecy. Now he is another of the most well-known Speakers for the SDA Church.
claudiamthompson 7 months ago
also watch Professor Walter Veith's videos.
claudiamthompson 7 months ago
You should go to Google and type in David Asscherick and watch some of his video series. The you would see a Christian Religion that actually stands up in the face of investigation and criticism. David himself was an Atheist until he found out about the Bible Prophecies of Daniel. Now he is one of the most well-known Adventist Preachers. No other Church has public Revelation Seminars where they can be challenged.
claudiamthompson 7 months ago
Sir i appreciate your incredibley truthfull video blog on this matter, I regret ever having part of the cult if I myself could take it all back i would. I know full well that there is no dignifying way for one to simply leave and cut their losses. They will and do shun those who seem to or outright disagree with the direction and policies of the Governing Body. If the rank and file members learned the reality they too would leave "her", that is if they chose to listen to Jesus' instructions.
MannyMarvel 7 months ago
If Jehovah's Witnesses learn the truth about the Watchtower and Tract Society they will leave. The WTS's hold on people is isolation and ignorance. I remember the person that studied the 'Truth' book with me said it was important to be opened minded and listen. A JW cannot be opened minded because if they listen and hear the truth about the organization they will leave it. 1874, 1914, 1925, 1975, and much more.
torrents4u2c 7 months ago
We only shun ones who shun us.
Read what happens to congregations that don't practice shunning correctly. Revelation chapters 2 and 3.
The early Christian Congregations in Paul's day practiced disfellowshipping and reinstatement. We stand by our beliefs and teachings the same way.
We teach 4 salvations. A heavenly resurrection, 2 earthly resurrections, and a live earthly salvation. Let us share. Regards.
megthepearl 8 months ago
@megthepearl Thanks for your comment. It would certainly be nice if you only shunned people who shunned you, but that's not how it works. I have never shunned a single JW, but they universally shun me, because they are instructed to do so by headquarters. If you feel this is wrong, then I encourage you to directly talk to your local elders about it -- I guarantee you will find yourself in hot water if you don't toe the party line.
hopefulatheist 8 months ago 4
@megthepearl If you would, please define 'ones who shun us.'
HoBustinJopson 3 months ago
i seem to remember we were taught the lesson of the Bareans and how it was so important to learn from their example,
kynancecove 9 months ago
what you describe is prima facie evidence of cult behavior
Pilgrim812 10 months ago
Your a liar if you (just) walked away you would not have been shunned tell every one about the prostitutes go on you know you want to.
mrscooter711 1 year ago
@mrscooter711
Your statement is so stupid I had to comment. If you walk away. The elders will and try to convince you to return. They may do this several times but if you will not agree to return you will be disfellowshiped and shunned. You must be connected with the witnesses by trying to discredit someone who leaves.
torrents4u2c 7 months ago
yer shunning is nutty
ExJWPedo 1 year ago
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schmutzgreiffer 1 year ago
This video is very helpful, and your presentation is very insightful. Thank you for this.
propagandatechniques 1 year ago
Good thats how it is, why are you complaining? We dont want our congregations or our young ones being contaminated from those who should of known better. You left the "Truth." Jehovah has to keep his people safe and clean from the world and you have decided to be a part of it, a part of Satans world. Move on or repent and return before its too late.
MultiMrsLovett 1 year ago
@MultiMrsLovett Your God is a joke. Leave before it's too late. You're giving your life away to an Organization that doesn't give a damn about you.
trappedwarrior 1 year ago
@trappedwarrior. Please dont be blinded by Satan and his evil System of Things. Its only normal for you to comment to me in this way as you havent seen the Truth that is before us all. Why not visit one of your local Kingdom Halls and see for yourself that Jehovah and his people care for all. You will receive a warm welcome. Hurry before this wicked world is destroyed and enter the New World with us where we can return the earth to how it was intended to be, a Paradise.
MultiMrsLovett 1 year ago
@MultiMrsLovett Been there and percivered, it is full of shit.
schmutzgreiffer 1 year ago
@trappedwarrior
Don't worry about MultiMrsLovett. She's not a JW but simply a sick, persistent and long-time stalker.
YouTube has its fair share of warped minds, that's for sure.
This one is the worst I know of.
The only way to treat her is to completely ignore her.
tommotian 1 year ago
@tommotian
Ignore Me !
I won't be ignoring you !
Come on Tommy, make my day !
MultiMrsLovett 1 year ago
@MultiMrsLovett
"... make my day !".
I see you have copied ol' Ronald Reagan's "make my day" when threatening the Iranians. Try some thinking of your own, will you!
Romans 1:27,32 [be sure to read it]
tommotian 1 year ago
the shunning is inhumane - i don't even want to think of lives destroyed and lost because of it. i am also concerned with the hidden abuse (2 people have to witness an event to report it), and the lives lost because of the blood policy (based on 2 literal scripture interpretations) people are destroyed here...i don't think general population understands fully what's going on, and young ones baptized, making such decisions- we need "full disclosure laws" to protect people.
corkbab 1 year ago
@corkbab they trick people at the door, and some are in too deep before they realize. Love your car sales example. You are very truthful, smart and articulate..a great addition to society! I believe in a God, whether i feel becuz ive always been taught that, i don't know...i simply feel it, at it gives me hope and happiness - i love church ritual/traditions - it brings be close to may family, and has helped me when i felt alone..sociologists/anthropoligists would agree it is a need for many.
corkbab 1 year ago
@corkbab unfortunately religion has destroyed many lives. a lot is just a fairy tale, but often its how people/cultures make sense of their lives - atheism itself is a culture, a way of thinking. i want to respect people's beliefs...but it's hard when so many are destructive and controlling..i cant respect jws, and i think their policies are actually criminal. im rambling..so...thank you for your vids! you are inspiring - even to God-believers. All should be open to listening to other views.
corkbab 1 year ago
Shunning is psychological abuse!
schmutzgreiffer 1 year ago
@schmutzgreiffer Religion is psychological abuse.
trappedwarrior 1 year ago
@trappedwarrior I think that is mostly correct. Mostly correct, in that many ideologies are mostly religious. Religion is about rebinding the soul with god. The things to investigate are "Is there a soul" and "Is there a god". Then you need to make your own mind up. I prefer atheism, but that is just me.. Take care and good luck.
schmutzgreiffer 1 year ago
here in the Bahamas a good number of JWs don't practice shunning in its true form. I'm not sure about the rest of the Caribbean. Many of my JW relatives continue to speak, greet & eat with & even sleep over with disfellowshipped relatives. I think they just find it difficult to do or conceive of.
MamaGboyega 1 year ago
If someone chooses to shun another person on their own, that's their own business and maybe justifiable. But being obligated to shun another, because direction from an organization is absolutly wrong and unchristian.
estudiantedelaBiblia 1 year ago
Brilliantly put! There has been such fear placed in the hearts of JW's that there is no room for integrity accept to the doctrine. Free thinking is not allowed yet is one of the greatest gifts the Creator bestowed, for we are not animals. I hope your message reaches others such as ourselves to investigate for themselves what we were not told. In the end, we all stand alone in judgement.
bluesugar1000 1 year ago
Nice video Sir. very well put.
Punkninja12 1 year ago
and don't say 'we' when talking about witnesses when you identify yourself as an atheist. witnesses aren't atheists.
iNsOmNiAcAnDrEw 1 year ago
@iNsOmNiAcAnDrEw Perhaps you could enlighten me...where do I group myself with Witnesses?
hopefulatheist 1 year ago
they aren't asked to shun you under pain of their own expulsion. the scripture says bad associations spoil useful habits. that's all there is to it.
iNsOmNiAcAnDrEw 1 year ago
@iNsOmNiAcAnDrEw The "bad association" scripture is used almost exclusively for "worldly" association, and sometimes for fringe people in the congregation. For people who leave the religion, they break out the big guns, like 2 John 10-ish, which says that saying a greeting makes you a sharer in "his evil acts." And yes, you can definitely be DF'd for associating with people who leave the religion. If you doubt this, I invite you to tell your local elders that you are have an ex-JW buddy.
hopefulatheist 1 year ago
@hopefulatheist family are obligated to help eachother out. of course you're going to be disfellowshipped if you do things that are bad in god's eyes and aren't sorry about it. what about a disfellowshipped person do you think could possibly explain why they wouldn't be considered "worldly" association? worldly people are those who let themselves be influenced by the ruler of the world, satan the devil. if you're in opposition to god, then you're influenced by him, thus worldly.
iNsOmNiAcAnDrEw 1 year ago
@iNsOmNiAcAnDrEw I'm saying that regular non-JWs are treated completely differently from ex-JWs. And the word "worldly" is typically used to refer to the former, not the latter. If Witnesses treated ex-JWs like regular non-JWs, that would be fine by me. Instead, they direct Witnesses to "not even say a greeting."
hopefulatheist 1 year ago
@hopefulatheist you're thinking of apostates. disfellowshipped ones are either worldly or apostate. if they're apostate, that means we don't greet them. in those days the normal way of greeting was a like like the english phrase, 'you're welcome'. it was a hospitable greeting. we wouldn't invite apostates into our home. whether a person is disfellowshipped or not is just a detail. being an apostate, however, is a super huge deal and not to be taken lightly. there are actually very few of
iNsOmNiAcAnDrEw 1 year ago
@iNsOmNiAcAnDrEw What you are saying is simply not factually true. Look at the link in the video. It's laid out explicitly: Do not fellowship, eat, or even say a greeting to disfellowshipped people. See paragraphs 2-4.
hopefulatheist 1 year ago
@iNsOmNiAcAnDrEw What a sad brainwashed state to let a Cult such as the Cult of Jehovah Witness tell you who and who not to speak too. Their shunning tactics destroy whole families it's so hateful. And I'm glad JW Jokes are being exposed for what they really are; a Lying Trash Cult. I don't even acknowledge their twisted terminology such as disfellowshipped and apostate the same as I don't acknowledge racist terms like the N word. The Cult of JW are so full of separatism and hate!
sibadili 1 year ago
@iNsOmNiAcAnDrEw The Cult Elders speak about information straight from the Cult's headquarters the WTO They verbally demonize anyone who is not a Jehovah Witness. They brain wash their children and pressure them using scare tactics into taking the big plunge! The cult of JW is really disgusting and needs to be exposedm This is a wonderful video love it! In fact the Cult of JW constantly speaks against higher forms of educations right in their Churches I mean "Kingdom Halls" Ha! JW's are Liars!
sibadili 1 year ago
excellent! I'm sorry about the way you are treated. It's not right. I am a Witness. I can't tell anyone what I really believe because I will be shunned. I make videos that don't necessarily reflect my personal beliefs in God, but that may help those with that kind of belief. you are a fine representation of brothers who have real integrity.
PrintedTruth 1 year ago
More Truth!
Excellent!
TheW1TeRabbit 1 year ago
Every religion is different. I don't agree with atheist but I do agree that it is not ok for people to shunn others because they have dropped from their church or have lost their faith.
That is not something that I have heard of as a protocal in any christian church until now. I'm sorry that you are going through this and I hope that this has not influenced your decision to become atheist or any type of religion.
ladyEulaelie 2 years ago
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All I can say every church/organization is ran different at all locations some are more stricter than others. Too uptight or more layed back. Judging by the way you sound/are, your congregation is more elitist uptight.. if you were inner city it would be looked as "you possibly come back later after you get your mind clear or learn hard" as opposed to your more suburban congregation/family being like "how dare you question society! I will not be embarrassed along with you son/friend."
sr20tuner 2 years ago
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..good standing members weren't so scared/intimidated and used better judgement on reproved or DFd members. Hopeful I am part of your word of atheist or agnostic thinking currently my wife does not regret marrying me during her DFing and (even though not admitted) actually embraces my strength & outlook on things. I dont force my thinking and vise versa fortunately it's never been an issue. I even hanged out with them and got invited several times to places..
sr20tuner 2 years ago
..lunching with mother, sister, cousins still. They asked what happened and whatnot. So I think a lot of members and family take it tooo extreme to totally right off family. You can't be counseled but never reproved or DF for talking to a DF person. Just like you can't be DFd for getting tattoos. I will agree with you a lot of them are unhappy and depressed, my wife was depressed when I met her but I am not the overbearing i'm head type of husband. The religion would be fine if...
sr20tuner 2 years ago
Pt1
hopeful, what you fail to realize is that everyone has there own way of worship. my wife is a JW, she was DFd for sexual reason prior to me meeting her. She eventually went back on her own to be reinstated. During her DF her family still talked to her and was around her, YES weird especially when her sister was a pioneer and her father was a ministerial servant. Although WT looks down upon this because of possible stumbling they still stayed in contact of course no parties but lunching...
sr20tuner 2 years ago
FAIRLDSdotORG
for the truth
LDSapologist71 2 years ago
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rock9711 2 years ago
I was raised a JW for my whole life. Left at 20ish and the last 15 years I have been out, it has been the best part of my life. I am glad they shun. I always had a feeling that they were weird and wacky, even as a child. I haven't seen or heard from my whole family for 15 years. Thank God....lol. I can't stand those silly JW's. Starting over in life was the best thing I ever did. Being an atheist is the best and most honest thing I could have ever done. The journey has been amazing.
ThomasSGibbs 2 years ago
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Remember leaders of different Christian sects, the will of God is undivided Christianity. Give up your churches, no more Catholic, Protestants, Adventist, JW etc. If you think that I am wrong then prove that you are right. Ive asked the Lord for the two simultaneous explosion of volcano in the U.S. within this month of December, pray that it wouldnt happen, if despite of your prayer it does happen, then know that God is with me therefore you have to listen to me.
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conceil8 2 years ago
*gets ready to be shunned because she is dating outside* :x
therosewebb 2 years ago
Thank you for your comment. I would be very interested to know just a few of the infinitive alternatives, and which denominations adhere to them.
Also, it is rather curious that now you believe that no religion has it right. Does that mean that after nearly 2000 years, no Christian religion has valid teachings?
rondotom1121 2 years ago
It sounds like you are working from several assumptions: 1) that there is a God 2) that God is as we imagine in the Western world, 3) that the Bible is a special communication from that being, and 4) that there is a religion today that has a special claim to being "true."
It's possible that any one of those assumptions is not true, which would open up myriad other possibilities. (Seriously, use your imagination here--there are a ton of them.)
hopefulatheist 2 years ago
To your question about my views regarding Christian religions, no, I don't believe any religion--Christian or otherwise--has teachings that accurately reflect reality. There are certainly themes such as love for neighbor that I can wholeheartedly endorse. But I don't think any religion has any basis to claim that it has special knowledge of what happens after death, what God is like, etc, etc. (See my other videos if you'd like to get a longer answer on this.)
hopefulatheist 2 years ago
But what I have great difficulty with, is to leave off what I have learned, and go back to believing that if I get it wrong, a loving God will punish me forever and ever in an indescribable hellfire. I could not do that to an enemy. In addition, in order for that to happen, I would have to live forever, which if I don't put faith in Jesus, is impossible. I just could not worship that kind of a God.
Please excuse me, but that is MY HONEST THINKING.
rondotom1121 2 years ago
I think you're creating a false dichotomy. There is no need to choose between believing in hellfire and believing that the JWs are correct. In fact, there are infinite other alternatives. I personally believe that no religions are correct, but that's just me. The important thing is to think slowly and rationally about all the possibilities.
hopefulatheist 2 years ago
I think your video was honest, well presented and heartfelt. However, one thing that I never seem to see, is about the kind of people that are actually JWs. Probably the finest people that I know in the community. (Not that they are the only ones.)
rondotom1121 2 years ago
Hi, and thanks for your comment. The JWs certainly do try to cultivate a squeeky clean public image. However, as their shunning policy itself illustrates, not everything is as they would like to project. I think if you make more than a cursory examination, you would find serious problems in the culture of the religion. (Too many to list here--perhaps I'll do a future video on the topic.)
hopefulatheist 2 years ago
I WAS IN THE SAME SITUATION
japnikki 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
JW do not mistreat thos who leave. We want them to return to the truth and we care for them. This guy clearly hates God and wants to spread lies. This is his choice. God loves his children and wnats us to survive and live forever. Do not be put off by this apostate and his attempts to convert people to a life of hoplessness.
warriorprince1010 2 years ago
If you're dreaming because I would like to believe so. When I left I was mistreated whereas they acted like I didn't exist. Oh, the dude in the video is telling the truth.
Misshaircare2009 2 years ago
I finally read the info you submitted, and I found nothing wrong with it. As I said before, it tells you to limit contact with family members. The severing is to be done with disfellowshipped people in the congregation, and it also explains why. Nowhere does the document instruct you to treat a family member the way you described. The reality is some people are drama queens and blow things way out of proportion.
gitserved56 2 years ago
Did you not read paragraph 9?
"The situation is different if the disfellowshipped or disassociated person is not living at home...It might be possible to have almost not contact at all with the relative....Loyal Christians should strive to avoid needless association...even keeping business dealings to an absolute minimum."
Translation: If you spend any social time with such a relative, you are a disloyal JW.
hopefulatheist 2 years ago
Depends on your interpretation of the words, "needless association." I doubt if emotional support is considered needless. I also noticed in your summary you left out the scripture used to justify these actions. This IS a RELIGIOUS organization, and the scriptural basis IS the reason behind it. As for loyalty, read the definition, and try to understand what it means to be loyal. Would you really want to be known for kicking it with a bunch a sellouts? They might sell you out next.
gitserved56 2 years ago
gitserved56 ~ " This IS a RELIGIOUS organization.."
There is no salvation thru the WT Organization,,, so why are you a part of it?..JW's don't accept Jesus Christ as their Savior.
VAIO294 2 years ago
i am not, and I never said I was. Know your role, and mind your business.
gitserved56 2 years ago
gitserved56 ~ "i am not, and I never said I was."
Well, you're on here defending that false prophet organization, so you might as well join them.
VAIO294 2 years ago
Whatever.
gitserved56 2 years ago
Terrible for those who have to go through this. thankfully my family is out too and my closest friends were always non-witnesses anyway. A loving God wouldn't want us to shun family. It seems that most cults practice both separation from the world and shunning. This is a deadly combination as it leaves one without a support system on the outside and more likely to fall into depression and suicide.
Sarai217 2 years ago
What if it really is The Truth?
JahWarrior 2 years ago
the truth is with CHRIST..not when MEN..when Peter asked Jesus to WHOM they should go to when he leaves..who did Jesus point out to? to some man made organization or to himself..The parable of the Faithful and Discreet - is not about an organization but YOU..why notice the other servant..ANYONE can be that...and since anyone can be the other servant so can one be of the Faithful and Discreet servant...
rhdtv2002 2 years ago
What you fail to see is a relationship w/ Jehovah is above all else. So, if YOU personally decide to leave Him, why should I do the same? I can't control your actions, we all have free will. Just as in the Bible God's people were not to associate with certain ones who did not worship the true God, I do the same.
cherthejoy 2 years ago
I don't think you've considered the possibility that your religion is simply not true. For me, leaving the religion was the only moral and conscientious choice I could make, based on my honest appraisal that it was not the truth.
Imagine you were raised to believe in Santa Claus, but at some point you figured out he wasn't real. Should your parents and siblings cut you off because you have a chance of opinion?
hopefulatheist 2 years ago
Well that is your opinion then. I do believe it is true. You can't possibly compare a relationship with our Creator, Jehovah... to Santa Claus. But if we're going on analogies... if you see a piece of candy on the ground that is covered in dirt.. do you need to taste it to make sure it is dirty? I don't need to examine other religions to know their false. I just go by what the Bible says. Good day to you.
cherthejoy 2 years ago
Sure, but what if you noticed that the candy you were already eating had dirt in it? Should your family reject you for spitting out the dirty candy?
hopefulatheist 2 years ago
That was indeed a good one.
gitserved56 2 years ago
I don't see the error in not socializing with someone who commits gross sin and is not remorseful of their behavior. Read 1Cor 15: 33. By not associating with them you are showing the person that you do not condone their behavior and you don't want it rubbing off on you. Seems like a spiritually correct move. 1 Cor 5: 1,2 is worth reading also.
gitserved56 2 years ago
When my immediate family cuts me off totally -- for a change of opinion, not for any actual hurtful behavior -- it is simply unhealthy. The effect of shunning is to emotionally blackmail people to stay inside the organization, even if they begin to suspect it is not true. "What are you going to do, leave? Then kiss your friends and family goodbye." It's the same dynamic as in an abusive relationship.
hopefulatheist 2 years ago
Turning your back on your own family is extreme. Social contact should just be limited not avoided. Common sense. Where is the love? Don't blame the organization for zapping cancers before they spread, blame your family for a lack of good moral judgement. As for friends, the way they shun you defines their character, it is possible to communicate with someone on topics other than religion. Minus worldly things, the dialogue may be brief. However, their humility shows where their heart is.
gitserved56 2 years ago
Then it would appear that you disagree with the WT on this score too. It's true that the official directives go back and forth, but the hardline instructions explicitly say to cut family off. Look up the article in KM around 2002/2003, where it excoriates someone who believed she could maintain contact with her fleshly sister, and commends someone else for cutting off contact. I believe the exact words are, "it should be possible to have almost no contact."
hopefulatheist 2 years ago
That was really gay, how could I get voted down and I actually had a scriptural base for my comment? Apostates are everywhere.
gitserved56 2 years ago
Just to let you know, I didn't vote your comment down. But regarding your scriptural base for the comments, two things to think about:
1. Quoting from your holy book doesn't prove anything. Would you consider the matter settled just because someone quoted from some other book (say, the Koran) to "prove" something?
2. It's trivial to find a text to support just about anything. You could easily support slavery from the Bible, etc. You need better reasons than "the Bible says so."
hopefulatheist 2 years ago
Read between the lines. I was not "proving" anything, just giving examples. The fact is, if you associate with people their habits rub off. It could be their dialect, mannerisms, or way of thinking. Whatever it is, positive or negative, it WILL efect you in some way. As for slavery, the Bible does give guidelines as to how to treat slaves. Too bad the "man" glossed over that part. Can you really point out a principal in the Bible, that when applied, is not beneficial to those reading it?
gitserved56 2 years ago
Sure, how about the fact that the Bible condones slavery at all? In case you imagine that it was merely an employer-employee relationship, check out Exodus 21:20-21, which allows an owner to beat slaves to within an inch of their lives. I'm guessing you don't expect to be beaten at your place of employment.
Don't you consider rationalizing slavery at all to be "glossing over" a serious deficiency in biblical morality?
hopefulatheist 2 years ago
That was written for a totally different crowd, but even in that instance there were consequences if the owner killed the slave. The way the society was structured, it was completely fair. The Mosaic law was good and firm, right to the point, no appeals, or hung juries. Anyone reading it in the present would benefit from acknowledging its fairness and efficency. Besides, we are all slaves. Either to God or Satan, you are working for one or the other, whether you admit it or not.
gitserved56 2 years ago
Well, you are obviously pointing out that a religious group practices shunning. So, in this instance, wouldn't examples from the book they use as a guide justify why they do it? i would not consider slavery supportable.If you read the beginning, these are guidelines for a Hebrew slave in particular. Further in it says anyone who kidnaps a man and sells him is to be put to death. The slaves of that time were people sold for debts owed, and were due release after 6 years.Nothing like the south.
gitserved56 2 years ago
You're still rationalizing a system that provided for legalized assault on other human beings, with only the most basic restraints such as "don't actually kill them."
hopefulatheist 2 years ago
So your only qualms about this is that it is in the Bible and accoring to you it is something cruel and should not be tolerated? Well, you described it well when you called it a system. It worked for their particular society in that time period. For someone to adapt that to the present and justify it because it is in the Bible is just unintelligent.
gitserved56 2 years ago
My point was simply, if you're going to try to convince people that shunning is the right thing to do, it needs to be demonstrable in some way that is apparent to people who don't already believe the way you do.
For example, suppose a fundamentalist of another stripe tried to show you the correctness of killing all infidels based on some reading of the Koran. It might be convincing to him, but it wouldn't be convincing to you or anyone else.
hopefulatheist 2 years ago
Well the facts point to people taking on the traits of the ones they associate with. You don't have to be religious to know that. You yourself would not associate with thugs and hoodlums would you? Even though they may benifit from your company, you avoid them like the plague. Wouldn't that be considered shunning? I am sure you have convinced yourself it is the right thing to do. How would you justify this to someone else?
gitserved56 2 years ago
Honestly, if someone doesn't want to hang out with me because they don't like me, that's fine. I'm an adult, I can deal with it. My problem is with the enforced separation of family members. You and I both know that if a Watchtower came out tomorrow saying that JW mothers should feel free to talk to their former-JW sons, if they so choose, that the phones would be ringing off the hook the next day. The WT itself causes the division by explicitly saying not to have contact.
hopefulatheist 2 years ago
So basically you have a problem with someone telling you what to do. Fair enough.
gitserved56 2 years ago
No, I didn't say anything like that.
I think it's wrong for **the WT Society** to tell **its members** not to have contact with their family members, under the threat of their own expulsion.
hopefulatheist 2 years ago
A married couple with only one person that is a witness is not supposed to talk to eachother? This is all lame. I need the name and date of the publication that suggested this extreme demand. It seems that if you sever all contact, you would not have a chance to change their mind. Sort of counterproductive. I recall limiting social contact being the wording in something i read recently.
gitserved56 2 years ago
It's probably not realistic for a married couple not to speak, although I understand that the policy certainly introduces some awkwardness. However, for parent-child and sibling relationships, especially when not living under the same roof, the policy is in full force.
I updated the description to the right of the video to include a link to a scan of the KM I mentioned in the video. Please note in particular the section starting at paragraph 9.
hopefulatheist 2 years ago
Thanks for the link, I'll look into it and compare notes. Thanks for remaining civil. : )
gitserved56 2 years ago
A Cult is a church or an organization with a Messiah Complex. Salvation comes from Christ alone. I hope you find freedom in Christ. Please do not let a Cult turn you off from God. Love Lea
truthbeknowen 2 years ago
Thankyou for sharing this. What you said is spot-on.
"Love is patient and kind; love does not envy or boast; it is not arrogant or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; it does not rejoice at wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth. Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. Love never ends."
MessiahYeshua 2 years ago
you will know who my disciples are by the love they have among themselves. this is not jehovahs disciples religion
babylonworld 2 years ago
Love your videos. I was never officially a Witness. Not believing in any God helped me from ever being baptized. I just attended and went in service for the first 15 years of my life. I moved out at 15 to my unbelieving Aunt's house. The shunning actually started before I even stopped going to the 3 meetings a week or service. It was amazing. I lost half of my family while living the life of a nun. I'm forever glad that my sister a former pioneer escaped with me. I couldn't lose my best friend.
AmyNihart 2 years ago
I was raised from birth a JW. For 20 years I went door to door, gave talks, microphone carrier, opperated, sound department, ran the magazine counter, was a regular publisher, pioneered for many years as a teen, even though I knew it was wrong, but my childhood brainwashing was stronger. My father was an elder and my mother was a pioneer. It has been 15 years sence I left and havnt spoken to my family or friends. What a relief. A huge burden was taken off my shoulders. What a relief.
alphaqwe1 3 years ago 3
I know what you mean i am disfellowshipped too and its been over 10 years i feel its a relief but i still feel hurt to be viewed as a bad person even though I have tried to better my life i will never be accepted by my family. But then who wants to be accepted by that? still it hurts that your own family can act like that
babylonworld 2 years ago
Good video!
Thanks!
MollySato 3 years ago 2
JW's are taught to have a closed mind. They are not encouraged to think for themselves. And, they are made to believe that they can't live without the orginization. The organization is a big bully controlling the lives of JWs. It's nothing but a cult.
2000jasmin 3 years ago 2
Comment removed
2000jasmin 3 years ago
Everyone is saying "Poor Ex-JWs." "My how JWs are controlled & that they are missing out on true freedom." My question is what are they missing out on exactly? What freedoms are they losing? What are they being controlled by? A clean conscience? Happiness? And yes, we've all heard the "Controlled by the WT" answer, that seems to be the only argument, but what better options can you nice Youtubers provide? Does anyone have a video for that? Anyone? Yes? No? Maybe? Ready? Discuss..
HaHaHeeHeeHoHoHum 3 years ago
Thank you for your comment. Primarily they are missing out on the ability to exercise their consciences. As a JW, your own conscience is actually basically non-existent because you are required to accept the decisions of the WT Society on most matters. Sure, there are a few "conscience matters," but for most issues your role is simply to accept (and learn to defend as ably as possible) the views given to you. Thus there is not much place for true exercise or growth of conscience.
hopefulatheist 3 years ago
A clean conscience!?! Huh! The amount of JW's that remain in the 'fold' live double lives, I've seen it first hand. Happiness? Hardly, the Kingdom Halls are full of people that are depressed and unterested in what is going on around them. Christlike personalities do not radiate within this religion. Posers and hypocrites, the ones who are nice, would be nice regardless of being a JW. If anything, being a JW probably hinders them to being the truely nice people they are.
twennytweentwen 3 years ago 6
they are false when they think you are interested then if your not its the cold shoulder how bad is that? is that truely jesus dicisiples? I dont think so!
babylonworld 2 years ago 2
Exactly!!
My mum associates with them all the time, and she drives me nuts, I point out how rubbish they are and she has it down pat 'oh well, everyones imperfect', ticks me off how they use that as an excuse as to why they don't live up to their own 'standards'.
twennytweentwen 2 years ago
Where is God in all of this? Arent the brothers supposed to show love and patience for a fallen brother? Arent they supposed to be a support group to strengthen and guide and not a group that exercises mind and speach control over its members? Are they to be feared and revered as if they were God himself?
I am so angered by the witnesses. They stopped studying with me when I adamantly told them I wanted to study the scriptures only..no watchtower or books. Never again recieved a call.
barbcinque 3 years ago
thank you for growing.
styrofoamheart 3 years ago
The venomous bite of a J.W. defender, not all, can be as bitter & nasty as that of those whom they say attack them. So, what makes some hateful and cruel remarks any different from those who defend their's? What is it from these hateful & cruel reactions that we are suppose to learn? What goes around comes around? As has been proven over & over again, retaliation doesn't work. Love works! Please, I have met many wonderful J.W. whom I have much respect and love for. Not all retaliate.
earthenly 3 years ago
sorry but that it's a religion it's a cult.
AmerbZoka 3 years ago
That former car owners analogy is perfect!
Nicely done.
DblOSmith 3 years ago
Imagine all the brothers and sister just going thru the motions because they don't want to have there family and friends shun them!
I spent 20 years in the organization!
it is true you don't get all the facts before your baptised only what they want you to hear!
We all have been deceived! but atleast we woke up! thx
LOJANOS 3 years ago 2
It's child abuse for a parent to damage a child's spiritual development, yet many religions encourage parents to disrespect other faiths and insist their children believe as they do, with of course the sad experiences you relate here as consequence.
I'm constantly amazed by things I hear about religions supposedly based upon Jesus Christ's teachings.
Controlling isn't loving...
PaceFamily 3 years ago 2
How the irony flows.
HaHaHeeHeeHoHoHum 3 years ago
How's this for a tale?
My brother and I both left in 1988. I did because I stopped believing it, he did because he had a girlfriend. He preempted hia disfellowshipping by writing a letter of resignation. In the 20 years hence he has had a very rocky, usually non existent relationship with my (in good standing, married to an elder) Mother. I never wrote any notes so she treated me differently, yet I said some of the most blasphemous things to her face.
(to be continued)
bowlingballout 3 years ago 2
(Conclusion)
Last year I got wind that she was going to disinherit us and give whatever estate she had to the WT. My memory of the bible tells me that disinheritance is about the strongest rebuke you can deliver short of death. I called her out on it. She evaded the question, so I have joined my brother and cut ties with her.
Here's the kicker. She maintains a relationship with my exwife, who in 1990 switched from JW to being a Mormon.
Gotta love hypocrisy.
bowlingballout 3 years ago 2
They are all hypocrites. I had one sister look straight through me while she went shopping with her daughter, who lives in her house with her 'worldly' boyfriend, they share the daughter and boyfriend share the same room but of course! they don't have 'sexual relations', oh no, never!!! ummmm, ok.
Where as I have just quietly left (cos it's nonsense) and I'm treated like a lepor.
twennytweentwen 3 years ago 6
And what's more, they all have time for my mother, who has studied like 5 times!!! and never made any progress, but hey, she attends some meetings and puts her hand up and answers so she is good company to them, even though she comes home, lights up a cigarette while humming the last song she sung at the meeting!!!???!!!! Their standards are ridiculous.
twennytweentwen 3 years ago 4
Too true.
bowlingballout 3 years ago
Well said mate! And very well put. Again we have a religious movement that portrays itself as one thing,when the reality is somewhat different. The JW organisations main job is to rake in mountains odf cold hard cash, to keep the seniors living in luxury-just like Scientology, mormonism, catholocism and all the other saviours of the soul that infest this world.Collectively, their hypocrisy and double standards are quite staggering. We should all stand together to rid the world of them.
HURUHRA 3 years ago
Organized religion doesn't always mix well with honesty and integrity. I've got my story as you have yours, although I was raised Catholic. Today I'm with a woman who was raised Hindu, her mother is Buddhist and my eldest son (who lives here half the time) is being raised Jewish by his mother, who converted. Somehow we all get along.
I'm sorry about the pain you've had to endure. Happy to hear you've got your dad though. That's important.
Best wishes.
Werebat 3 years ago
I posted the scriptures to show one thing. Scripturally as long as you are not any of the things, there's no bible law for anyone to insist on following. Not all disfellowshipped people are committing terrible deeds. So that might be the only exception. As long as the person does not "beat his former brothers" would be one more exception.
Septuaginted 3 years ago
I know of an elder that speaks to his disfellowshipped son. He told me straight out, "THAT IS MY SON !!!" I agree with him. So it's true that you can make that choice outside of the meeting. I stand by that elder 100 percent. I believe it's still a PERSONAL CHOICE.
Septuaginted 3 years ago
Again, good for you, and good for that elder. You guys are rebels, though. Think about it this way: Would you feel comfortable openly mentioning watching these videos, or hanging out with a former Witness, with the other elders in your congregation, or your CO?
hopefulatheist 3 years ago