CrossFit - "To Gain Or Not To Gain" with Louie Simmons

[Cayvmann]

It depends on what your goals are. There is a point that is missed, I think. Up to a certain point muscle mass is going to help you run faster. In your legs anyway. There is a trade off point when you gain too much mass to efficiently move down the track. Of course you will be stronger, but the power to weight ratio goes down.

[Jokk3asd]

@Cayvmann Actually no. Power and mass dont go in hand. You can improve your strength while losing bodyweight. Its not about "bigger muscle, more power" thing.

[zdrux]

So is he saying for power, I should be doing low-rep heavy weight training?

[12Emilos12]

@zdrux yup

[06TurboVtec]

so i want to get bigger and stronger, is the westside training program right for me?

[ibasicallytotalyrule]

Louie Simmons is a fucking genius.

[RockDiesel4]

Louie droppin' some knowledge. Love it!

[mbutts255]

@Nippon1971 Chad Wesley Smith, EliteFTS sponsored, owner of Juggernaut Training Systems, Raw squats over 900

[Necrotik420]

Nippn is a fool. Disregard any comment made by her.

[LypsLynch55]

you gotta take everything in context. Louie even admits that hypertrophy work is useful if you're trying to move up in weight class(es). So its all relatively speaking and this soundbyte is portrayed as cut and dried issue, which Im sure if you asked Louie to clarify, he would elaborate.

[asustud10]

Unless you have trained elite, or you are elite.... You don't offer much of anything to say on this level of coaching.

[rugtube86]

Abadjhiev

[rugtube86]

Haha, Nippon you're an idiot!

[costantin75]

For the haters - first you post a video of yourselves squating ATG over 250kg and then you'll earn the right to say anything.

And btw, there's a simple way to measure any lifter's strenght - it's called deadlift.

[lovesgibson]

@costantin75 exactly, which is why they should DEADLIFT over 250kg. deadlift>squat imo

[calcetosocko]

@costantin75 For you - stop saying "post a video of yourselves squating ATG over 250kg " when you don't have not even 1 fucking picture in your stupid channel!!

And btw.... FUCK OFF!!

[costantin75]

@calcetosocko I have never squated ATG over 230kg, to tell the truth. But I'm a powerlifter, and my raw squat is close to 300kg. And actually, I have some videos on my other channel (if you're able to ask politely, I'll lead you to it). The important thing, thou, is that I was not the one criticizing Simmons, who is a proffessional trainner.

[TheRationalTeller]

@calcetosocko Hey idiot..Maybe you should ask politely and learn something from a real powerlifter. Why don't you fuck off?

[TheRationalTeller]

@calcetosocko You show quite a display of anger against someone in particular, who, was speaking to a general audience (the haters). He must of struck a nerve, and when you retaliate, you find that he'll show you the close to 300kg raw squat, and you find that your squat is probably less than 50% of that. That's too bad.."laugh, laugh"..And what are ya gonna do about it hater? Squat 150 kilos and break your back LOL

[DMxNemesis]

@costantin75 powerlifters dont squat atg btw

[costantin75]

@DMxNemesis Agreed. That's why I usually don't.

[Siedlerdeo]

@costantin75 Love it, I REALLY DONT understand what people can say that is negative about BB training?! fucking flex magazine readers

[TheGreatOldOak]

@costantin75 You don't even have videos.

Squatting "ATG" is inefficient and something that neither of us have videos of.

[AngelEyesC4]

@TheGreatOldOak squatting ATG is not inefficient, what are you saying

[TheGreatOldOak]

@AngelEyesC4 Strength = Force x Distance

If you do not understand this I am wasting my time.

[AngelEyesC4]

@TheGreatOldOak Work is Force x Distance, if you do not understand this I am wasting my time. Power is work over time. Do what you want with those two equations.

[mrcooolbrah]

@Nippon1971 mate show me one olympic lifter who can still total elite at the age of 62 like louie simmons can

[ViKtoricus]

@mrcooolbrah

It doesn't matter. Powerlifting is an old man's sport. Weightlifting is for people who are on their prime.

If you're 62 and you're still an "elite" lifter, then your sport probably sucks. Knock of the bullshit.

To argue further, Simmons successfully trained 2 Olympic gold medalists in a bullshit sport while Abadjhiev training 12.

[illouie]

@ViKtoricus Not to mention all of the many major world class competitors he trained.

[ViKtoricus]

@illouie

Yup. 62 european champions and 57 world champions in weightlifting.

[etwade]

@ViKtoricus You're in your prime and you're CJing what... 90 kgs?

[MEATHEAD10786]

Keep in mind Louie's audience here: he is talking to CrossFitters who need to be strong and light. When referring to Oly or Powerlifters, he says that gaining muscle gives you more leverage around a joint and makes you stronger, so you should bulk up as much as you can while remaining in your weight class. And as SplinterCellFugitive mentioned, it would be through myofibrillar hypertrophy, not sarcoplasmic, so all mass gained would contribute to more strength.

[MEELATEHGRIL]

You're right. I replied to the wrong person. Sorry about that.

[ibanez910]

He's talking about strength directed in sports. If you train mostly with low volume and heavy weights you'll gain power and strength but SOME muscle mass. And olympic stronger than powerlifters? That's a dumbass statement. It's 2 totally different lifts. And lets see an Olympic guy put 900 on his back. He wont be able to hold it.

[Nippon1971]

Funny thing, every time I watch this video it's like he says that a thin guy is stronger than a muscular guy. Probably because he thinks that being strong means wear an astronaut squat gimmick like quadruple layer shit that goes back and forth and calls himself a squater....Why don't you try a raw lifts without belt and knee wraps Louie and then we see how well your theory stands true !!!!

[MEELATEHGRIL]

@Nippon1971 You don't know anything about strength training if you don't respect Louie Simmons. 

[Nippon1971]

@MEELATEHGRIL At least I know what squat is.....

[SplinterCellFugitive]

@Nippon1971 realize that Westsiders often squat on a 10 inch box WELL BELOW parallel in a wide stand. how about Phill Harrington at 181 squatting over 700 RAW. most people barely dream of squatting 500 at that bodyweight at any height

[Nippon1971]

@SplinterCellFugitive Show me ONE powerlifter that can squat RAW all the way down like that : " 800 pound / 363 kg Squat - ATG 100% RAW " and then we can talk....That's what real squat is my friend !! I know that powerlifting community is large and everybody want to convience hiself that he squats big but I'm sorry to say that the real squat style is the olympic squat style.....

[SplinterCellFugitive]

@Nippon1971 Stand efferding comes close at 854 breaking parallel with no equipment. but olympic lifters dont normall squat their max in a competition. where did you see an olympic lifter full squat 800 raw? there are athletes than can do it im sure

[snizshizzle]

@SplinterCellFugitive

/watch?v=WK7m6I5m6gY

Here is a vid of an oly lifter doing 800. Either way, Nippon is a retard.

[chitah6]

@Nippon1971 Dude, I can't believe that you are trying to lecture Louie Simmons. The guy is a masterful coach, gym owner, and lifter. He lifts raw in his gym, as do all of his guys/girls. You may want to do some research before you make rediculous comments.

[SplinterCellFugitive]

@Nippon1971 what you are saying doesnt make sense wince much of those olympic lifters have higher bodyfat percentages. Also realize that powerlifters develop myofirbril and motorunit development rather than sarcoplsm expansion like a bodybuilder. Scot mendelson will bench press 715 raw and still have small triceps than top bodybuilders. last but not least, go watch the videos of them train with little or not gear and they will still outlift anybody on those lifts in that weight class.

[Nippon1971]

Louie if you use proper squat form you'll see that in order to become stronger, you become larger !! Wake up !! Don't you see that the Olympic lifters that are by far stronger than powerlifters and they do not use gimmicks like squat shirts and shit like that, they are large ?? 105+ class of weightlifters are the largest and of course the strongest. Here take your "athletes" to an Olympic weightlifting event so we can have a bit of a laugh.....

[CxOxLxE]

in a way its sorta true because i have some friends that are smaller than me but stronger but if you do gain more muscle (which puts weight on you) will make you stronger. You don't see Powerlifters that are small throwing up numbers like the guys weighing 200+

[Breeegz]

@CxOxLxE But powerlifters do three lifts, all slow heavy lifts. If you want to remain dynamic and functional, there is a perfect body weight for you, depending on your build and frame that will allow you to be strong AND powerful, I think this is what Louis was talking about.

[CxOxLxE]

@Breeegz yeah he didn't really answer the question, the original question was just about increasing strength.

[guitarhumper15]

@CxOxLxE strength to weight ratio my friend

[MEELATEHGRIL]

@guitarhumper15 You don't know anything about strength training if you don't respect Louie Simmons.

[guitarhumper15]

@MEELATEHGRIL on the contrary i respect him 100% and read everything to do with him and his training :) i was just stating to that nippon guy that he should just respect what others do ..its like saying a marathon runner runs 26 miles + and comparing a sprinter that only runs some yards to a mile or so .... i hope that could be a good analogy