Truth about Opera Today: Miscasts, dangers of (dramatic vs lyric) Русские субтитры

[MisterPapageno]

I give you a practical example: Oksana Dyka performed at la Scala in various roles (Nedda, Tosca and last Aida) and she really sucks!!! But she has her agency (IMGartists) and Maestro Baremboim that support her, so though she is technically one of the worst singers on stage, she sings!

[MisterPapageno]

The main problem of opera today in Europe especially is:

1) total lack of education of the artistic directors;

2) ignorance by the conductors of the voice;

3) opera houses, especially in Italy, take their singers from agencies and they make this "process": Opera house is looking for singers for a title -> it calls an agency -> the agency gives the singers, not regarding if they are ok or not.

[LisaAlbiez]

I disagree with your theory. I don't think there is a predestination of a voice-type. The only difference between voices is their height. I've posted a video to explain myself a little better...

[TenelliVoiceGuru]

@LisaAlbiez Where in the video did I say there is a predestination of a voice type?

Voice type always a mistery...

[LisaAlbiez]

@TenelliVoiceGuru Sorry for my cryptic post. I want to try a second time to explain a bit more extended what I mean. In my belief the difference between Del Monaco and Pavarotti is primarly the hight of their voices. Del Monaco has a bariton-like profoundness, Pavarotti has a higher voice and sounds therefore more like a "bell".

[ididete]

@LisaAlbiez Sorry to disappoint you. Del Monaco's voice was HUGE. Pavarotti's was medium size.

[LisaAlbiez]

@TenelliVoiceGuru There is also a difference between their techniques and I agree with you that Del Monaco has the better one, but in my opinion the difference shows only in the high notes. But its not as easy as you demonstrate it. The main difference between the two techniques isn't the colour of the sound (The colour is given by the size of the larynx)

[LisaAlbiez]

@TenelliVoiceGuru Del Monaco shows more aggression, Pavarotti, as all modern lyric singers specialises more in the in the soft feelings. About 30 years ago, lyric singers had the so called ability to do spinto. They were able to switch between the soft lyric sound and a more aggressive tone (in dramatic phrases and in high notes).

[LisaAlbiez]

@TenelliVoiceGuru Othello cannot be sung like that because its too dramatical, but most tenor and soprano roles in the italian repertoire have an ambivalence (especially the females in puccini or verdi-operas). In the last 30 years the lirico-spinto.singers vanished. Left are the very soft (in their expression limited) lyric voices and the extreme (sometimes ugly) dramatic voices. What do you think? Lisa Albiez

[TenelliVoiceGuru]

@LisaAlbiez I do not disagree with you. I have an expereince of doing roles from Don Ottavio to Calaf and Otello. I know it not from books or other singers hearsay.

On the count of a dramatic tenor I disagree(I'm a dramatic tenor). Italian Dramatic tenor is not just a loud and dark voice. It should be full of nuances. Otello requires both Fortissimi(Esultate) and ppp (Dio mi potevi) but few singers managed to sing it as Verdi required, including very first Otello(Tamagno).Heroic is more static

[LisaAlbiez]

@TenelliVoiceGuru I didn't say that YOU are one of these ugly dramatic voices ;) On the contrary. By the way: I love your channel!

[marcelyuda]

When you sounds like a lyric tenor on your examples, did you change your technique,or did you recorded it using different mike or different recording technique?

[TenelliVoiceGuru]

@marcelyuda I change technique

(I used the same recording unit my HD Sony camera and it's mike in both cases). Briefly,

lyric approach has different larynx position(higher) and lighter opposition of the diaphragm),

dramatic approach take lower larinx position and more energetic ballance with the diapgragm

[marcelyuda]

@TenelliVoiceGuru Is it the technique, or the voice which determine the category of the voice?

[TenelliVoiceGuru]

@marcelyuda depens on roles and particular tenor's agility. I, if miscasted, would not try to sing with the higher larinx position because that will tire my voice. I can sing imitating liric voices, but it's not my nature. Easier it would be for me to sing dramaticaly but then it would spoil the style and caracter. Point I'm making that evry singer should know his limitation and try to avoid miscast

[marcelyuda]

@TenelliVoiceGuru I got it. So we should have the right technique first,then we will know our vocal character, dramatic or liric, and then we have to choose the right roles for our voice. Is it right?

[TenelliVoiceGuru]

@marcelyuda the most difficult question whether technique makes voice or nature of voice influences technique. The unswere may be not streight but I'd say both.

If one doesn't have a nature or dramatic voice, technique will not be a great help.

But some singers don't sing with the real nature God gave them and a certain technique can transform their voices. Example: Russian Dramatic Tenor Atlantov started as tenore di grazia(ultra-lyric), after hearing DelMonaco, change his technique

[marcelyuda]

@TenelliVoiceGuru So the right technique will bring out the real nature God gave us. Is it right?

[TenelliVoiceGuru]

@marcelyuda I explained that in my appoggio step by step, if you watch it again, u will find your answeres

[marcelyuda]

@TenelliVoiceGuru Thank you so much maestro!!! :)

[Cesaare]

Franco check out my video "Niun mi tema modernised production who is the tenor?" casted by barenboim, who cast miked people, what do you think of that lyric tenor trying to sing otello?

[TenelliVoiceGuru]

@Cesaare your version is a proof of a pure miscast

[maferreira1984]

@TenelliVoiceGuru : however, despite being a huge voice, it's not heavy/dark; as a matter of fact, it is very bright, clear and very metallic, with a tipically lirico-leggero color (imagine Juan Diego Flórez with 3 times the volume). Due to these qualities, the voice - which is rather very impressive - can sometimes sound quite harsh.

In addition to that, it totally lacks agility. That narrows his repertoire to minor Wagnerian tenor roles, and he finds himself often miscast.

What could he do?

[TenelliVoiceGuru]

@maferreira1984 who are you talking about? the name?

[maferreira1984]

@TenelliVoiceGuru : it's a coleague of mine, from my singing school, he is just beginning his career.

I wrote two messages, the first one is just below.

[TenelliVoiceGuru]

@maferreira1984 from my computer I don't see a message, but in any case, singer always takes some risks and makes mistakes, nobody is safe from them. But if he is an intelligent person, he will soon understand what roles are dangerous for him. Voice you discribe sounds like full liric, which is capable of singing almost anything except heavy dramatic(Otello,Zigfrid). Real dramatic tenors are very rare(Giacomini, Melchior)

because it has to have a dark colour and power(squillo) and sing high

[TenelliVoiceGuru]

@maferreira1984 well, if he lacks agility, then he has to upgrade his technique and learn to sing legato with his huge projection, therefore appoggio will help him, because that big resonance has to be ballanced quite heavily with the diaphragm. That's requires knowledge but also a great physical work and patiance

[Cesaare]

Wow! What a powerful message,Opera istablishment is gonna hate you Franco for exposing their ignorance.

Wow and bravo

[TenelliVoiceGuru]

@Cesaare If I'm sacrificed for the sake of art, that will be an honour:)

Establishments always have their hidden interests, in this case "under popularisation of opera" the message is make more money. They cannot make money if art is not popular. Opera, like real drama(Shakespear, Schiller, Goette) was not, should not, and will not be popular, unless we make easy adaptations like: Bible for kids, Phylosophy "Idiot guide"(I'm serious: there is a book sold in Canada), Dostoevsky easy reading:)

[Cesaare]

@TenelliVoiceGuru I guess you are right. Popularisation is partly to blame because if you make anyone to read Schiller dramas, without simplification of an idea(idiotization I' rather say) general public will not even touch it. But Paul Pots it's their hero, and they ready to pay for such a lack of taste and depth, because on one hand they feel close to him, to his mediocrity, and he's made it, he is better then Lanza and Pavarotti altogether. This is the era of Paul Pots and those who like him

[TenelliVoiceGuru]

@Cesaare "the only artist who does not deserve respect is the one who works to please the puplic, for commercial or official success"

Jaques Maritain

[TenelliVoiceGuru]

@TheSportlike Вот вам и полный перевод текста, даже полее полный нежели то что я сказал в прямом эфире.Можете послать это вашим Русским колегам:)

[Remalia19]

I'm curious, does this classification between dramatic and lyric voices occur in bass voices? I haven't heard for example a classification like dramatic bass. Also, where can I find the type of voice that the composer wanted for each role?

[TenelliVoiceGuru]

@Remalia19 1. Good question and you are right about voices:bass voices are either buffo,caracter or dramatic(dramatic like Boris Godunov).

Majority of Dramatic basses are in Russian operas. In Italian operas mostly buffo or caracter.

as for your second question.

Some urtext editions are more specific about voice cathegories giving more specific choice. But, the only way to know is knowing traditions of the composer and style. Open Otello ricordi score says-Otello-tenor and that's it...tbc

[TenelliVoiceGuru]

@Remalia19 One has to take in consideration the caracter in play(tragical personality, like Otello or Canio). Duke in Rigoletto can't be dramatic neither too liric(because he is the duke with power). But who is Riccardo in Ballo in Maschera? Today sung mostly by tenors like Pavarotti(full lyric). You will not find suggestion in the score, but if you read libretto you will find this persona as dramatic and look who hired Veridi for that role:

Tamagno(dramatic tenor, who san his Otello debut) tbc

[TenelliVoiceGuru]

@Remalia19 2.Sorri Verdi(not Veridi) Veri important also a tessitura(working range) of a role. So summering up:

1.Dramatic or liric caracter of a role(read libretto)

2.Tessitura of a singer

3.Composer's initial cast(Riccardo(role)-Tamago(sin­ger type-dramatic)-true traditions

the last 3rd is not always to be trusted. Some composer's taken political decisions hiring famous rather then proper voices like in Puccini's Turandot, Maestro Giacomo wanted Gigli in the original cast(Calaf is heroic)

[TenelliVoiceGuru]

@Remalia19 4. Gigli by no means was heroic or dramatic and say in his memoirs that he was very happy that he wasn't casted in the opera(Puccini died, and his son made a different decision). You see great B.Gigli understood limitations of his voice, not like today's singer's taken indiscriminately everything they can get, especialy dramatic roles. Some do it out of ignorance, some out of vanity and others out of greed:dramatic role pays 3 times higher fees then lyric roles

[Remalia19]

@TenelliVoiceGuru Thanks a lot for your helpful reply. But I think you haven't talked about whether there is a classification in the bass voice, meaning is there a dramatic bass or a lyric bass?

[TenelliVoiceGuru]

@Remalia19 Yes, I did, in my first answere:)

Basso dramatco(Boris Godunov, Hovanshhina etc, in Russian Operas only) and Basso lirico or buffo In Italian operas.

Since it occurs only in Russian Operas, it's known less.

[Remalia19]

@TenelliVoiceGuru Now I saw your full answer. I;m so grateful. Thanks again!

[cdbaxte]

There must be balance. As surely as society progresses, the individual psyche must adapt to meet new pressures, under which conditions artistic aesthetic must evolve or become outdated and irrelevant. As surely as opera birthed dramatic roles departing from earlier bel canto tradition, who's to say that the modern artist does not serve himself well by departing from the traditions of dramatic roles to develop the more versatile artists? Obviously, you believe yourself capable of both styles...

[sunrider59]

Пример с Дель Монако просто супер. Я где-то читал, что ему после пения "чужого" лирического репертуара пришлось восстанавливать голос. Я видел его в Кармен и Паяцах. Там не только голос, он сам, своей игрой, показал, что драматические роли - это его хлеб.

[aryankhah]

dear maestro

very good discussion and perfect illustration..QUESTION: witch one is more dangerous , lyric voice singing dramatic roles or dramatic voice singing lyric roles?

[TenelliVoiceGuru]

@aryankhah Good question too:) No streight answere for that but I will try.

if a singer is allowed to sing with his(her) technique it will be less dangerous for a dramatic voice, because lyric voices may push without beeing asked to. That will depend also on tessitura of the role and the cast. If all cast is miscast, then there is a ballance among them and in that case it will depend on maestro's ability to align orchestra with singers.That's very individual and a singer should keep his eyes op

[TenelliVoiceGuru]

@aryankhah to smaller voices there is a solution if they are miked, then it's only a tessitura of a role he(she) singing can damage their voices.

Some companies today solve this by saying" hell with this acooustic crap" let's use mikes. Let's turn Opera in to a broadway show. Let's not tell the audience, they will get used to it, sooner or later. To my great dissapoinment even "La Scala" is using mikes today. Doing so they can get rid of big and "ugly" voices once and for all, tha'ts a reality

[TenelliVoiceGuru]

@aryankhah and one last note: pay attention on who makes career today? not opera singers, but good recitalists without previous operatic experience. They got their name by beeing recording artists and sudenly they appear as opera stars, I won't give you the names, but most of you know perfectly who they are:). That's cannot be changed unless true accoustic opera fans expose that fraud clear and loud, All we can do is to demand opera companies to announce those who sing with mikes, but that won't

[ididete]

In addition, if you want to hear a true dramatic singer of today (who, of course, doesn't sing in big opera companies), please check out Ofelia Hristova, a Bulgarian dramatic soprano. To me, her singing was a revelation.

[ididete]

Dear Franco Tenelli! Thank you very much for your videos. Yes, I wish for the same. But how? When teachers themselves don't have the knowledge and the willingness to work with big voices? I am that example. The art of appogio singing that you are explaining here is being lost, the one that is necessary for a big voice to sing. My teacher forced me to do "placements" even though that never worked for me.

[javmex2003]

yes very very true, a very good example of these was kraus, he understood and respect this very well, thats why he always did a leggero and lirico/leggero roles only

[thegnomeidentity]

very illustrative examples, especially the wagner passage. the singer in the role of a powerful warrior character like lohengrin needs to continually project power even in quiet moments, giving the impression of a great power that is veiled, a man "walking softly but still carrying a big stick", in order to remain authentic to the role. thnk u again

[thegnomeidentity]

this precious web resource threatens to put many sham singing schools out of business, please continue to expose modern myths. great insights thnk u

[RodTenor]

Very true.