Pastor & Church Controlled 30 Ways to Sunday irs 501 Part 3

[whoo689]

Let's look at the Catholic Church, shall we? Do you guys realize just how political the Church is?? It's insane! Almost every teaching of theirs is political: "social justice" "abortion is murder" "gay marriage is wrong" etc. etc. Catholic clergy don't let their members come up with their own political views. Instead, the bishops and whathaveyou impose their will on everyone else. You're called "nonCatholic" if you even slightly differ from the path on issues like gay marriage or abortion.

[whoo689]

If you ask me, Catholicism is a joke. I kind of agreed with Pastor John Hagee when he referred it to as a whore, although for much different reasons. Idiots like Bill Donohue can't stop whining about silly things like how Barack Obama is planning to or spoke at Notre Dame or how Angels and Demons portrays Catholics. GET OVER IT! You're not the only church in the world anymore! Protestantism has been around for almost 500 years! Stop acting like you own everything.

[whoo689]

Sermons are not here to spout your political views and try to control people's brains and indoctrinate them politically. There's a time and a place for that, and it's definitely not church.

Sermons are supposed to be about experts on the Bible and its teachings trying to make people better themselves. They're not supposed to tell people how to vote, for christ sake. When you introduce politics into the church, you make it no better than a lobby group. you've ruined it.

[whoo689]

This nation's makeup is far different from 200 or 300 years ago. There are a lot more religious and spiritual groups, and a lot more people are godless, as well. Christians no longer have a monopoly on America. So stop acting like this is YOUR culture. It's not yours, mine, or anyone else's. It's OUR culture as Americans! That means one group or person cannot impose its will on the rest of us in an attempt to "drive" the culture in their direction but one which many others may oppose.

[whoo689]

Let's clear a few things up:

1. The Founders were mostly DEIST, not Christian fundamentalists. They would've easily repudiated the Religious Right. They were not big on miracles or any other supernatural bullcrap from the Bible. Yes, they believed in God, but guys like Jefferson relied on the Bible more for MORAL GUIDANCE, not Creationism or anti-science/anti-intellectual fervor and hating certain groups of people.

2. This is a melting pot nation, not a christian one, anymore.

[whoo689]

As long as you're not a white power extremist or anything of that nature, I'm pretty sure God doesn't really give 2 shits what your politics are. The Religous Right needs to quit pretending God is automatically on their side just b/c the Old Testament God was some totalitarian prick who couldn't stop ordering people around and judging them.

I mean, you guys quote the Leviticus verse about gays and abominations, and yet you ignore ALL other rules in that book. Pick and choose much?

[whoo689]

If any other group like a nonprofit or a charity become overly political and started openly endorsing candidates for office, they would immediately lose their tax-exempt status, would they not? So why the hell should it be any different for churches??

I'm tired of authoritarian ministers on both sides of the aisle preaching politics from the pulpit and trying to tell congregration members what to think or how to vote. STOP it! God is not a politician. Neither was Jesus.

[whoo689]

Look, just don't talk politics or endorse candidates from the pulpit! If you REALLY wanna get involved so badly, form your own religious interest group. Then you can be as political as you want without losing tax-exempt status! It's a fucking no-brainer, yet you whiners think it's appropriate to shove politics into the church and totally debase the meaning of church. Shame on you! Left or Right, I don't want politics creeping into the congregations. Let people make their own decisions.

[DeadlyChinchilla]

Keep your petty god out of my politics, and I'll keep my petty tax forms off your desk.

IT GOES BOTH WAYS. What whiners.

[whoo689]

Taxation is NOT government "infringement" on churches! That is a lie spread by the Religious Right. The Founders never argued anything like that. Why should a church be exempt from taxes just about everyone else pays? What if I wanted to create my own church of carnivores? Could I get tax-exempt status?

What if my church worshipped a political figure and preached politics all day? Should I then get tax-exempt status? You don't need tax-exempt. You'll do just fine.

[whoo689]

I suppose the First amendment protects me from paying taxes, does it not? Free speech, like all constitutional rights, is NOT absolute! There are some boundaries you should not cross. You cannot use free speech to justify abusing the pulpit for political gain.

Look, if you want to get involved in politics as a church, be my guest. But you must pay the admission fee like everyone else!! Being allowed to get involved in politics but not pay taxes makes you a filthy freeloader.

[ornelas3830]

I did not know there was an admission for speaking freely, or as the U.S. Constitution states it, "freedom of speech." Send to me your red shirt so I can burn it to ashes along with y our communist ideals. The idea of freedom and what it means is foreign to you.

[whoo689]

I'll never understand why tax-exempt status is so precious to these churches and nonprofits. Why do you need to stay free of taxation?? Corporations get taxed 35%, and they're still well afloat! You really think your church or charity can't survive a little tax? Come on, now! You're just being greedy and self-righteous. If you ask me, anyone who makes money should be eligible for some form of taxation, if even low taxes.

No one should be excluded just b/c of their organization designation.

[JustAboutMyPolitics]

The 1st Amendment protects the church from being subject to government regulation and taxation. Moreover, even Form 1023, which is the government application form (i.e. contract) for tax exempt recognition, clearly and explicitly states that churches are already considered and recognized as tax exempt even if they do not file Form 1023.

[whoo689]

Uh, no. churches are for teaching the ways of the Bible, not getting involved in politics. You are corrupting the church when you abuse the pulpit for your political agenda and try to brainwash your congregation. Don't conflate politics and religion. Mixing those has proven disastrous time and again. Nothing good ever comes out of it.

These preachers can say their views OUTSIDE the church as individuals but not as preachers claiming to represent God's will. They don't know what God wants!

[JustAboutMyPolitics]

Where do you think politics was taught from in the early years of this country ? Largely from church pulpits ! You're an ignorant communist & atheist. Samuel Adams had something to say about people like you. "If you love the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you. And may posterity forget that you were our countrymen."

[whoo689]

Well, you got it half right. I am an agnostic, but how the hell am I a communist? You right-wing Christians need to stop making these ridiculous accusations against anyone with opposing views! People aren't automatically communists if they don't fall in line 100%.

I am for the separation of church and state precisely because I am a) against theocracy b) realize too much mixture of church and state cheapens religion and c)realize there's a place for religion and a place for politics.

[whoo689]

In fact, I'm a libertarian. I'm a HUGE believer in freedom. That's why I'm strongly in favor of a separation of church and state, even if it's not expressly in the Constitution. It's still a good idea. I don't want people to be oppressed or have their views sent to the wayside just because they're not religious or don't agree with YOUR take on religion and politics. And I'm pretty sure that Sam Adams quote doesn't apply here. You fail.  Have a nice day.

[JustAboutMyPolitics]

I apologize.