@porcaro4ever I'm not well versed in heory & dont sight read but.......Iafter shedding on this passage (0:28 -) i stsrted out with doing just double stroke rolls making the 8th note strokes 16ths. then practiced that in sync w/ tune. isolated the kick accents... added the acents with the hands (dbling the kick) it turned out a permutated inside 5 stroke roll. hardest for me was lifting the handsto cymbals and back & all smooth AND a couple of the doubled accents are with Left Hand & Foot
@rbxb riff is like BA da da BA BA da BA da da BA da da BA da da BA BA da BA da BA da da.. get that riff in head using 8ths as above (add the foot) remember the 2nd BA, 4th BA & 7th BA is Left hand...put THAT all together..then for every single "da" double them - BA dada dada BA BA dada BA dada dada BA dada dada BA dada dada BA BA dada BA dada BA dada dada I know its a weird way of describing it but I can do the lick now...cheers!
@porcaro4ever glad it helped. I've deeply studied Enzo's work on this DVD first cuz the music is so good..Have always been a Gino fan..secondly cuz Enzo's interpretation is , to me, so cool! He is a PIT grad and childhood prodigy. I have learned much by repeated viewing & duplicating. Even the stuff I originally learned wrong led to creating more & interesting stickings. I've improved as a player incorporating things I've learned from Enzo into my own style...
@db0956 Enzo's drumming is held in high regard by world class drummers..hence brilliantbeing's mind is filled with lunacy ha ha..... ET's drumming is fresh, tastefully executed & lifts the song..Gino is notorious for using the best players.
This guy's an awesome drummer...he adds his own technique to the song but who says he has to play it like the original drummer? If Enzo's drumming is good enough for Gino Vanelli, it's good enough for me.
You'd have to understand the finer points to rhythm to really see how much this cat is lacking. You cannot teach the more subtle and nuance points. You either have it or you don't. This cat "Don't".
Gino Vannelli is one of my favorite singer/songwriter/producers ever. I'm a huge fan, but I've always been disappointed with the performance of this drummer shown in this video. He is not swinging at all. His breaks, break up the rhythm of the groove in a way that takes away the power of this fusion classic. A robot or drum machine could sound better than this guy. It sounds like fusion by the numbers.Take this kid back to beginners class. Omar Hakim, Lenny White, SOMEBODY teach this kid! Please
I couldnt disagree with you more but appreciate your input... It's easy to hold the recorded original licks in high regard. as stated Craney raised the bar...Enzo brings (then) new blood & perspective to this great song ..If you spend the time to listen & learn Craneys fills then learn these fills with correct sticking and single right foot integration you'll be suprised.. I have & it spawned many fill ideas i've incorporated in my own playing
@rbxb - I am not a passive listener, and I have heard Craney live. But I'm not talking about the merits of Craney, but rather the bigger picture of groove. This drummer simply misses the groove. He misses the swing of the song. He sounds like a drum machine, not a grooving drummer.
@Brilliantbeing " He is not swinging at all." ---- This isnt a "swing" song per se.
---Are you a drummer?
" His breaks, break up the rhythm of the groove in a way that takes away the power of this fusion classic."
---His breaks are comping. leaving the guide notes (punches) intact * propel the song .
" A robot or drum machine could sound better than this guy." --- thats like saying Keith Richards could replace Larry Carlton in a Steely Dan tune! would you prefer MC Hammers drummer?
@rbxb - of course it's not a swing song. You don't even understand. Swing as in dance. Not as in Tommy Dorsey big band. Swing meaning sway. Swag if you will. This drummer is a robot. No swag, no sway, no swing, no groove; just banging.
Enzo is a fine drummer, but not even a worthy warm-up act compared to Craney.
You can tell Enzo's been studying Weckl's boring linear patterns, but cred's to you Enzo. You've done your homework! I wish it could have been less static though.
@DudemanSwede Your comments lead one to think you put Craney in a class above Weckl? Hmm.... "boring linear patterns" !!!
Not to diss Craney but Weckl & Todesco's technical ability would send Mark to the woodshed.. todesco does these one one kick drum & has more involved hand work..
Musicality is not about para-diddles, ratamacue's and flams.
It's just a matter of personal taste, therefore I realize now, that I shouldn't comments things like this. It's just my personal view, which doesn't mean jack sh*t, to others. I was way out of grid, sorry if I've hurt someone.
But, I've gotta admit I like it my little Craney-bubble... :-)
@DudemanSwede we all fall into the trap of concluding somebody is "better". you right its more a matter of subjectivity.... Is Vinnie better than Buddy??? hhhhhahaha no can ever prove amigo. but they both are not of this earth....musically : )
@DudemanSwede and you right about not being paradiddles else why would Wipe Out and Ina Gadda Da Vida solos still be standards if it were that then henly would have lost his job long ago. his playing is boring and uninspiring but fits the eagles... im just sayi
Plus, in case Henley for some reason would come up with a type Colaiuta- arrangement for a Eagles tune, he prbably would have a hard time singing while playing it? ;-)
@panoz360 yes! Enzo brings some great new ideas to these tunes. "Drop beats" havent heard that phrase but descriptive . If you mean leaving interesting spaces between rips... this whole DVD is a wealth of info ideas for me ..I've heard about every version of B2B & Gino's stuff from Lear to Craney to Todesco. All great drummers..
I like the old drummers better for sure. They had more Jazz flare and progressive chops. That drummer on this clip is good but to me he seems more like a ROCK player. His drums are tunned much lower like a rock kit. the 70s drummers had more tight chops and higher tunned toms. Still good players.
@Naughtry hmmm... tuned higher ....maybe.. but Joe V produced this & maybe the equipment is better & the drums just sound fuller, bigger & better with more decay..
Gino's drummers have sent me to the shed since 1974. They all offer great stuff to learn..
Interesting comments. Just listened to this tune live from 78 with Mark Craney. No doubt that this guy has chops, but in my opinion, Craney's style fits better. It's not always about chops. And as far as those cardboard sounding Sonors go? They kick ass on the B&B album. The drum sound is actually quite unique, adding to the overall flavor of the album. This guy sounds like every other good drummer these days. Same licks,etc. At least Craney was pretty unique.
dude you gotta get the whole video. Craney was very unique and interesting! but Enzo is far from standard fare. the more you listen the more you hear.next time listen thru a PA or big stereo ..his toms explode!
Gino always had some of the best drummers....Let not forget Graham Lear from the early days.....different and still good stuff.....Gino is a genius at finding the best guys to replicate his music....
Gino got my attention w/ Graham. Mark Craney took his music to even higher levels. I just think that Enzo best represents those previous players & contributes his own flair to GV
With all due respect, the late Marc Craney is a tough act to follow. His studio work on Brother to Brother (and Enigmatic Ocean from Ponty) his sound, taste, dynamics...the fact that he would utilize double bass licks perfectly without overplaying...he was just amazing. After hearing him so many times on Bro to Bro, it's hard to listen to anyone else play it. peace
I wont disparage Mark C. Very tasty & creative. In the 80's.but by todays standards ...those Sonors sound like cardboard boxes.. Itoo was suprised someone could trump Craney's performance on B to B.......but its a matter of tastes...
In my opinion, Each Gino drummer picked it up a notch
Lear, Craney then DG. Then Enzo. Enzo just blows me away.He only uses one kick pedal , his drums sound amazing & his tasty, aggressive approach leaves me wanting more....thanks for the comment
fair enough, taste is taste, I'm 50 and have been playing drums for 40 years, I'm not familiar with Enzo but that break he plays was actually a bass guitar/drum question and answer deal and on this clip it's all drums (and way too many cymbal crashes for me) the essence (for me) of that section of the song was the bass guitar and drums. Oh well, I understand he plays it his way and that's cool. It's like hearing Alan White try to play Bruford parts on old Yes
jim, 53,40yrs too.was there when gino hit the scene round 74. 2bad u cant hear the whole tune.Enzo comes outa the gate smokin. As a DGfan I love backwards playing. E's approach is just that..he zig's when I would zag but within the confines and supporting the tune. tape this,audio onlyand try to play along/duplicate his fills.I found it very enlightening. plus I didnt have to transpose from left hnded to rt hnded (craney)
I agree saw and heard them all with Gino ...Enzo had the sound, the chops, and everything else for Gino...hands down was the best drummer for gino at this period...I saw Gino with his new group and they were all great players but everytime I listen to this album and see this video I hope he does one more tour with the edge he had back then...what is Enzo doing today...besides growing old like the rest of us?
Very True. But with all due respect, don't forget Gino is a drummer by trade. The rest came later. You gotta figure he knows when it comes to drums. JMHO!
sections, most of all the drum parts are written down by Gino Vannelli. He did study drums and percussion in McGill University Montreal ( as far as I heard on interviews) Guys that did audition for him, said everything was right there on the drum charts......And Gino would say do it as written down....He knows what he wants....
Gino only uses the best I learn from all them.. Grahsm Lear, Mark Craney, etc. Enzo is my new favorite. Lots of possibilities just from stealing chops on these two videos..
Enzo was such a ripper!!!!!!!
Xanadude575 1 week ago
it's tedesco on drums
jembozzo 6 months ago
ain't no mark craney.
stromghouls 9 months ago
@stromghouls Yes, & what he brings adds even more..
rbxb 9 months ago
man what rudiment and sticking do you think is he doing at 0:28? Any ideas anyone?
porcaro4ever 10 months ago
@porcaro4ever I'm not well versed in heory & dont sight read but.......Iafter shedding on this passage (0:28 -) i stsrted out with doing just double stroke rolls making the 8th note strokes 16ths. then practiced that in sync w/ tune. isolated the kick accents... added the acents with the hands (dbling the kick) it turned out a permutated inside 5 stroke roll. hardest for me was lifting the handsto cymbals and back & all smooth AND a couple of the doubled accents are with Left Hand & Foot
rbxb 9 months ago
@rbxb riff is like BA da da BA BA da BA da da BA da da BA da da BA BA da BA da BA da da.. get that riff in head using 8ths as above (add the foot) remember the 2nd BA, 4th BA & 7th BA is Left hand...put THAT all together..then for every single "da" double them - BA dada dada BA BA dada BA dada dada BA dada dada BA dada dada BA BA dada BA dada BA dada dada I know its a weird way of describing it but I can do the lick now...cheers!
rbxb 9 months ago
@rbxb
actually thats not a wierd way at all dude! i can feel the accents i just wasn't sure how he was sticking. Thanks for the help dude! Peace!!
porcaro4ever 9 months ago
@porcaro4ever glad it helped. I've deeply studied Enzo's work on this DVD first cuz the music is so good..Have always been a Gino fan..secondly cuz Enzo's interpretation is , to me, so cool! He is a PIT grad and childhood prodigy. I have learned much by repeated viewing & duplicating. Even the stuff I originally learned wrong led to creating more & interesting stickings. I've improved as a player incorporating things I've learned from Enzo into my own style...
rbxb 9 months ago
I don't know if this drummer is "good" or not-I'll let the experts decide that, but I like the way he breaks up the groove, and he has monster tone.
db0956 11 months ago
@db0956 Enzo's drumming is held in high regard by world class drummers..hence brilliantbeing's mind is filled with lunacy ha ha..... ET's drumming is fresh, tastefully executed & lifts the song..Gino is notorious for using the best players.
rbxb 11 months ago
This guy's an awesome drummer...he adds his own technique to the song but who says he has to play it like the original drummer? If Enzo's drumming is good enough for Gino Vanelli, it's good enough for me.
OrisLover 1 year ago
Enzo, you are amazing!
gdrums61 1 year ago
Compared to real drummers this cat Enzo is a banger. A lot of notes, sans method or groove.
Brilliantbeing 1 year ago
@Brilliantbeing you're a funny guy
rbxb 1 year ago
@rbxb - thanks Roland RBXB Drum Machine. I'm appearing nightly at Zany's. :)
Brilliantbeing 1 year ago
You'd have to understand the finer points to rhythm to really see how much this cat is lacking. You cannot teach the more subtle and nuance points. You either have it or you don't. This cat "Don't".
Brilliantbeing 1 year ago
Gino Vannelli is one of my favorite singer/songwriter/producers ever. I'm a huge fan, but I've always been disappointed with the performance of this drummer shown in this video. He is not swinging at all. His breaks, break up the rhythm of the groove in a way that takes away the power of this fusion classic. A robot or drum machine could sound better than this guy. It sounds like fusion by the numbers.Take this kid back to beginners class. Omar Hakim, Lenny White, SOMEBODY teach this kid! Please
Brilliantbeing 1 year ago
@Brilliantbeing
I couldnt disagree with you more but appreciate your input... It's easy to hold the recorded original licks in high regard. as stated Craney raised the bar...Enzo brings (then) new blood & perspective to this great song ..If you spend the time to listen & learn Craneys fills then learn these fills with correct sticking and single right foot integration you'll be suprised.. I have & it spawned many fill ideas i've incorporated in my own playing
rbxb 1 year ago
@rbxb - I am not a passive listener, and I have heard Craney live. But I'm not talking about the merits of Craney, but rather the bigger picture of groove. This drummer simply misses the groove. He misses the swing of the song. He sounds like a drum machine, not a grooving drummer.
Brilliantbeing 1 year ago
@rbxb----- Craney raised the bar-- nuff said bro !. LOL :-}
TheChiFlows 1 year ago
@Brilliantbeing " He is not swinging at all." ---- This isnt a "swing" song per se.
---Are you a drummer?
" His breaks, break up the rhythm of the groove in a way that takes away the power of this fusion classic."
---His breaks are comping. leaving the guide notes (punches) intact * propel the song .
" A robot or drum machine could sound better than this guy." --- thats like saying Keith Richards could replace Larry Carlton in a Steely Dan tune! would you prefer MC Hammers drummer?
rbxb 1 year ago
@rbxb - of course it's not a swing song. You don't even understand. Swing as in dance. Not as in Tommy Dorsey big band. Swing meaning sway. Swag if you will. This drummer is a robot. No swag, no sway, no swing, no groove; just banging.
Brilliantbeing 1 year ago
youtube.com/watch?v=YdssrNteaF0
youtube.com/watch?v=E5T1LkL6EoQ
youtube.com/watch?v=7JJivzk_pIU&feature=related
Prasadaman 1 year ago
Enzo is a fine drummer, but not even a worthy warm-up act compared to Craney.
You can tell Enzo's been studying Weckl's boring linear patterns, but cred's to you Enzo. You've done your homework! I wish it could have been less static though.
R.I.P. Mark.
Good grooves, Enzo
DudemanSwede 1 year ago
@DudemanSwede Your comments lead one to think you put Craney in a class above Weckl? Hmm.... "boring linear patterns" !!!
Not to diss Craney but Weckl & Todesco's technical ability would send Mark to the woodshed.. todesco does these one one kick drum & has more involved hand work..
rbxb 1 year ago
@rbxb
I do.
Musicality is not about para-diddles, ratamacue's and flams.
It's just a matter of personal taste, therefore I realize now, that I shouldn't comments things like this. It's just my personal view, which doesn't mean jack sh*t, to others. I was way out of grid, sorry if I've hurt someone.
But, I've gotta admit I like it my little Craney-bubble... :-)
Rock on, People!
DudemanSwede 1 year ago
@DudemanSwede and you right about not being paradiddles else why would Wipe Out and Ina Gadda Da Vida solos still be standards
rbxb 1 year ago
@DudemanSwede we all fall into the trap of concluding somebody is "better". you right its more a matter of subjectivity.... Is Vinnie better than Buddy??? hhhhhahaha no can ever prove amigo. but they both are not of this earth....musically : )
rbxb 1 year ago 2
@DudemanSwede and you right about not being paradiddles else why would Wipe Out and Ina Gadda Da Vida solos still be standards if it were that then henly would have lost his job long ago. his playing is boring and uninspiring but fits the eagles... im just sayi
rbxb 1 year ago
@rbxb
Plus, in case Henley for some reason would come up with a type Colaiuta- arrangement for a Eagles tune, he prbably would have a hard time singing while playing it? ;-)
DudemanSwede 1 year ago
This drummer is amazing...! Awesome drop beats...just mixing it up without a lot of noise, braking up some fat ripps!
panoz360 1 year ago
@panoz360 yes! Enzo brings some great new ideas to these tunes. "Drop beats" havent heard that phrase but descriptive . If you mean leaving interesting spaces between rips... this whole DVD is a wealth of info ideas for me ..I've heard about every version of B2B & Gino's stuff from Lear to Craney to Todesco. All great drummers..
rbxb 1 year ago
I like the old drummers better for sure. They had more Jazz flare and progressive chops. That drummer on this clip is good but to me he seems more like a ROCK player. His drums are tunned much lower like a rock kit. the 70s drummers had more tight chops and higher tunned toms. Still good players.
Naughtry 1 year ago 4
@Naughtry hmmm... tuned higher ....maybe.. but Joe V produced this & maybe the equipment is better & the drums just sound fuller, bigger & better with more decay..
Gino's drummers have sent me to the shed since 1974. They all offer great stuff to learn..
rbxb 1 year ago
@Naughtry - Precisely.
Brilliantbeing 1 year ago
What's This Live???Is there any dvd of this???
Barlettiano91 2 years ago
@Barlettiano91 you can get the video on gino vannelli web site, its called live in Montreal
westfrontmusic 2 years ago
I´m confused. Was that a drum solo by Todesco or a breakdance solo by Vanelli?
arleco12 2 years ago
Interesting comments. Just listened to this tune live from 78 with Mark Craney. No doubt that this guy has chops, but in my opinion, Craney's style fits better. It's not always about chops. And as far as those cardboard sounding Sonors go? They kick ass on the B&B album. The drum sound is actually quite unique, adding to the overall flavor of the album. This guy sounds like every other good drummer these days. Same licks,etc. At least Craney was pretty unique.
drummer3278 2 years ago
drummer3278
dude you gotta get the whole video. Craney was very unique and interesting! but Enzo is far from standard fare. the more you listen the more you hear.next time listen thru a PA or big stereo ..his toms explode!
rbxb 2 years ago
Even the great Ricky Lawson had respect for Marc Craney!
culturewar101 2 years ago
who doesnt? You'll never hear me diss Craney He was a monster! Missed by those of us who know!
rbxb 2 years ago
Gino always had some of the best drummers....Let not forget Graham Lear from the early days.....different and still good stuff.....Gino is a genius at finding the best guys to replicate his music....
ellocoman440 2 years ago
no debate here..
Gino got my attention w/ Graham. Mark Craney took his music to even higher levels. I just think that Enzo best represents those previous players & contributes his own flair to GV
rbxb 2 years ago
With all due respect, the late Marc Craney is a tough act to follow. His studio work on Brother to Brother (and Enigmatic Ocean from Ponty) his sound, taste, dynamics...the fact that he would utilize double bass licks perfectly without overplaying...he was just amazing. After hearing him so many times on Bro to Bro, it's hard to listen to anyone else play it. peace
jimrodman 3 years ago 2
jim,
I wont disparage Mark C. Very tasty & creative. In the 80's.but by todays standards ...those Sonors sound like cardboard boxes.. Itoo was suprised someone could trump Craney's performance on B to B.......but its a matter of tastes...
In my opinion, Each Gino drummer picked it up a notch
Lear, Craney then DG. Then Enzo. Enzo just blows me away.He only uses one kick pedal , his drums sound amazing & his tasty, aggressive approach leaves me wanting more....thanks for the comment
rbxb 3 years ago
fair enough, taste is taste, I'm 50 and have been playing drums for 40 years, I'm not familiar with Enzo but that break he plays was actually a bass guitar/drum question and answer deal and on this clip it's all drums (and way too many cymbal crashes for me) the essence (for me) of that section of the song was the bass guitar and drums. Oh well, I understand he plays it his way and that's cool. It's like hearing Alan White try to play Bruford parts on old Yes
songs. (only my opinion) thanks!!
jimrodman 3 years ago 2
jim, 53,40yrs too.was there when gino hit the scene round 74. 2bad u cant hear the whole tune.Enzo comes outa the gate smokin. As a DGfan I love backwards playing. E's approach is just that..he zig's when I would zag but within the confines and supporting the tune. tape this,audio onlyand try to play along/duplicate his fills.I found it very enlightening. plus I didnt have to transpose from left hnded to rt hnded (craney)
rbxb 3 years ago
I agree saw and heard them all with Gino ...Enzo had the sound, the chops, and everything else for Gino...hands down was the best drummer for gino at this period...I saw Gino with his new group and they were all great players but everytime I listen to this album and see this video I hope he does one more tour with the edge he had back then...what is Enzo doing today...besides growing old like the rest of us?
stevedubintennis 3 years ago
Very True. But with all due respect, don't forget Gino is a drummer by trade. The rest came later. You gotta figure he knows when it comes to drums. JMHO!
tweet0626 2 years ago
Hi there you are right, and except certain
sections, most of all the drum parts are written down by Gino Vannelli. He did study drums and percussion in McGill University Montreal ( as far as I heard on interviews) Guys that did audition for him, said everything was right there on the drum charts......And Gino would say do it as written down....He knows what he wants....
ellocoman440 2 years ago
The guitar player is Mike Miller from LA.
bellgrill 3 years ago
Man, that looks (and sounds) like Steve Lukather (from Toto) on guitar! Does anybody know for sure?
joveeInNewEngland 3 years ago
dont remember guitarist name but it is not Lukather..Good eyes tho' he does kinda resemble him.
rbxb 3 years ago
well yeah he's great and all but can he play "Wipeout"? I mean really....
okay, I'm being a smart alec. GREAT drumming - Gino always had the best.
coltom 3 years ago
Thnks.
Gino only uses the best I learn from all them.. Grahsm Lear, Mark Craney, etc. Enzo is my new favorite. Lots of possibilities just from stealing chops on these two videos..
rbxb 3 years ago
oh my god! Thank you so much for uploading this treasure. A magnificent example of technique, rythmical skill and good taste
Bjorn
bjornengineer 3 years ago
thanks
I really dig Enzo's fills on these two tunes.
rbxb 3 years ago
excellent drummer, one of my favorites...
5 stars!thank's for uploading!
samat986 3 years ago