I forgot to mention that while I disagree with the author of this video, I still did like the video. It is a valid perspective presented in an inviting (rather than oppressive) manner. Well done.
As for the idea of justice, what is justice? Retribution? The consequence of one's actions? Giving unto one that which he deserves? Unfortunately, justice in the sense used in the video doesn't exist to an atheist. On the other hand, how many crimes have been carried out in the name of "God?" Where is the justice in that? It all evens out eventually. There are many people of strong virtue and character who do great works of good, and their justice is that they lived the best they could.
Anyway, being as I don't believe in God/gods, I have no fear of "judgment." I say this not to denounce the faith of those who do believe, but my perspective dictates that it would be inconsistent with what I do believe. If I had reason to fear such a thing, I would be forced to admit that I believe it exists, and should then find a path of faith to avert such an event. Such is not the case. I have nothing to fear but fear itself.
@mauriciohavok I'm sorry, my friend, but you need to review your definitions and what qualifies as agnostic. The reason I say I am is because there is no verifiable proof in one direction or the other to claim absolute certainty over the existence of God/gods. That is what qualifies me as one. I also said I lean towards atheism because the lack of said proof favors (but does not prove) the absence of such beings. Hence, I (tentatively) don't believe in them.
@AlbinosaurusR3X Yes, you are correct, and technically we're all agnostics, when you are talking about a belief in a god, if you lack them (not say that there is no god, but just saying you don't believe in a god in the same way you don't believe there is no god makes you an atheist.
@mauriciohavok You clearly don't know what you're talking about. It's not a put-down, but you are wrong. It would be better to just let it go as arguing about it is pointless. Focus instead on the other parts of my messages.
@AlbinosaurusR3X I'm not arguing, and well I agree with everything else on your comments, that's why I only adressed the issue of the definitions of agnosticism and atheism, as far as the definitions I know you are an agnostic atheist, but who cares about definitions? the point is you are a free thinker and kudos to you for that :)
@mauriciohavok I find my own views towards it are pretty split as:
65% Atheist: Until some kind of tangible evidence that --everyone-- can agree on becomes available to say that a god does exist.
35% Agnostic: There is the potential that god(s) exist(s), so I try to be fair and reserve absolute statements, but the lack of evidence is itself more compelling than the mere possibility.
I tend to defend the atheist side in debate, as most religious debaters are not fair in theirs.
@AlbinosaurusR3X On that same note, Father Jeffrey does not come across as those in that generalized group, and that's why I like his videos--even when it involves the perceived truths from that side of the spectrum. Since he goes through the extra trouble to be respectful of non-religious people while still arguing his side, I return that respect by listening to his side in the same manner (even if I disagree). However, I do view him as "an exception to the rule."
As a self-proclaimed agnostic (though, admittedly I do lean towards atheism), I have to say that I respect this about religion: Most forms of religion teach love, decency, virtue, and strong moral character. Even when I disagree about their particular morals, especially where dogma is concerned, I find that those who strive to live as kind, decent people shed a very positive light on the faith they embrace.
Catholic priest asks the question: what if pedophilia is right? or what if the world was round? or what bible crime did you like the most? what holy war did you like best? wtich of the 112,368 gods and goddesses are real ? why god hate's fags?
If I meet God when I die and he insists on sending me for a lifetime in hell because I didn't believe in him, even after I've led a good life and there's no evidence for his existence, then that would make God utterly malignant and complete hypocrite.
I don't know why you are in love with me kid, but since you like to talk, please tell me why this planet is designed with: "earthquakes, volcano eruptions, tornadoes, tzunamies, genetic disesases, handicaps".
Now please describe WHY an "intelligent" designer should put those terrible things in place, or accept that OUTSIDE the religious BUBBLE OF NO THINKING, the imaginary character of god is a silly incompetent and a sadist.
Oh I get it on the one hand you don't believe there's such thing as good bad right or wrong but at the same time you want to accuse God of being an evil sadist.
I see the character of god exactly as how he is described, and yes, I have to agree, it's a childish description.
Fact is, if there is an omnipotent and omniscent god, he is the author of everything. period.
Now, unless believers like to use "big words" without a grasp on the meaning, they sure can reply to simple questions in a direct way, using logic and reason.
If you can't, just don't reply, I'll find somebody else that actually can answer a question instead of pretending.
I could explain to you that God may have as many reasons for allowing disability as there are disabled people.
I could explain to you that humans are frequently arrogant and natural disasters may be God's way of humbling us and that most of dead automatically go to heaven.
I could tell you any number of things though they are just theories.
But frankly Grandpa I really don't give a care if you're annoyed.
u do know that in the bible is says that if u dont accept god, ur gonna burn in hell... so all atheists wont be given a second chance... we will all burn in your hell, even if weve been kind and goodhearted, loved and loving, we will all burn in hell! for all eternity!
The fear of hell, one of the very basics of Christianity, scare the people into belief! Control the masses! Control their minds!
Stalin and Mao...well Hitler was a christian... i dont blame christians for the holocaust tho
@BubbyFury the christian is selfish, they are good because they are afraid of what will happen to THEM, the atheist is good because it benefits society
There is no "the christian", there are Chrisitans who are good: because it feels good, because they know it's the right thing to do, because their Church tells them to be and so many more reasons per person.
Atheists on the other hand while they can been good for two of the reasons listed can't be good for the third or any others. Atheists however can also be evil because in the absence of someone to say no there is nothing to stop them. Dawkins doesn't even believe in good.
@ivlfounder ill admit that was a dumb comment, didn't quite convey the point i was going for. i do however agree with dawkins that good is a subjective, societal construct instead of an absolute
@ivlfounder no, dawkins in no way believes that, and i hope you dont truly believe he does. the huge gap between the atheists understanding of religion and the religious understanding of atheism is uncrossable. due to this lack of understanding i will no longer discuss this topic with you, but please refrain from making any more reductio ad absurdum, straw man or other grand misrepresentations of a group of people that fundamentally you truly do not understand, your comments demonstrate this.
@ivlfounder and you cannot grasp his concept when he says that, this is my point. the atheist and the believer operate on completely different methodologies of thinking. so when you hear dawkins say that evil doesn't exist you completely miss the point, and that is exactly what you are doing... missing the point. i will not explain it to you but i will ask that you either read his books or have a nice conversation with your local atheist before you continue with your straw man crusade
@ivlfounder no, but he considers them morally wrong, that is the point. evil is nothing but a social construct. i know these things are wrong because society has deemed them evil. if you got your sense of good and evil completely from the bible and god, and not from society you would be out there massacring homosexuals. dawkins argument is simply that, there is no tangible thing such as evil, simply the moral codes developed by culture and society and he believes these should be followed
@ivlfounder you seem to have degraded your argument down to useless speculation. i would expect nothing less in this type of debate. now if you will excuse me i have several babies waiting to be tortured and i have to finish in an hour in a half so i can make it to my weekly hail hitler society meeting where dawkins will lead us in our discussions in how to undermine society.
@ivlfounder what reason does he have to lie. and more importantly who the hell really cares what dawkins believes that was never the point but you seem to have made it that. i believed what i believe long before i read the god delusion, dawkins has no effect on my beliefs. you make a stupid comment about how only atheists can be evil and in my attempts to explain an atheists concept of evil to you, you have completely changed the subject to whether dawkins is telling the truth, WHO CARES
we can play this game all day long, but you cannot judge a group of people by the actions of one. so even if richard dawkins is the greatest liar in history and he routinely plays kickball with stolen fetuses it truly says nothing about atheism, otherwise i could make the statement, based on the same logic, that all christians are meth-addicted abortion clinic bombers. which i do not believe
1 Samuel 6:19 50,000 people were killed for being curious
i could go on for days. the point being that i don't believe christians are capable of all this murder. but i could make a good case couldn't i. its easy to make a strawman
Oblivion sounds dismal? Sounds alot better than eternal burning in a lake of fire. An eternal sleep has something comforting about it, especially to those suffering on their bed.
But I would not damn a single man in order to give an entire nation eternal bliss. To be so accepting of eternal torment without purpose or respite? That's dismal.
why is it that religious people think that they have some monopoly on morality, when they have a pretty shabby record at it? Look, personal morality is one of the few actual freedoms we as humans posess. I don't care why you have it, just use it, and don't try to trick others into it because of the consequences of hell, just let people know it's the right thing to do for it's own sake, not because you'll get into trouble if you don't.
@ivlfounder that is because one religions morality is no better than any other, and yet they all clearly state that they are right, and every other is wrong from the outset. Religion doesn't allow for tolerance of other religions, hell, the big three's books only say the end times will begin once their enemies are wiped out. Basically encouraging it in two, and outright saying it in the other. Religion is not morality, it is faith, which is not the same thing.
LOL and you really think religion didnt bring around millions of deaths too??? religion has been big for over 1000 years, add all the deaths up due to fighting of between and within religions it would be endless. And is he trying to say suffering of children and elderly, and all the crueltys around the world can be fixed by religion??? hahahaha ''god'' doesnt give a fuck, because ''god'' doesnt fucking exist, and so ''god'' isnt going to do SHIT!!!! :)
Father Jeffrey, you have given examples of men who were very evil, who murdered many people and stated that if the atheist are right, then these men are getting off the hook. That justice is not being served in death. This implies that you think eternal damnation and torture is justice for these people. Eternity is forever. I think killing and torturing 1 person forever may be more severe than killing all the people on earth in one lifetime.
He says that if atheists are right, then goodness has no ultimate value. That the times I've helped old ladies with her shopping trolleys, it had no value. Granted maybe not to me, and maybe not on a cosmic scale, but it sure helps them a lot...
yes WHAT IF humans come from adam&eve and every single piece of scientific evidence from the millions and millions of evidence is wrong? it' is a very likely situation
exactly, religion is not bad... however when religion starts to push past morale and encouragement for good, that is when the question of whether or not it is really "needed" in the world...
Stalin HAS to be punished by demons? (he is dead, better try punishing alive infant-abusing priests and religious bigots of modern day..) Dragons and faeries MUST be real!! Yeah..
This non-sense is completely immoral. A man with a thick white beard speaking like a begging kid. Unbelievable.
And He would had been paid for saying this shit …form your money all of his life … not doing any real benefit to society at all! …think on this when you pay money to the church …. When will philosophers get a pay check each month from you, I am sure it would be an better investment and better advice given from philosophers… even the bad ones!
I'm not Christian, I'm agnostic. A borderline Atheist, and I do my research and study on all religion daily so I know what I believe. And even though I am not a religious person, I still think what you said was very deep and was more logical than any other priest I've ever heard speak. Keep doing what you do, Father Jeffrey.
that's stupid...... yes, IT WOULD BE UNFAIR! So what? All you are saying is "Only because it is unfair that murderers end up like good people - God exists!"
It is unfair that they get to the position to murder so many people and to have so much power to live on without punishment on the first place -.- THAT is unfair..
With that logic - god DOESN'T exist. How about that?
Because then he wouldn't let those men who do crimes commit the crime at the first place.
dude seriously. Most athiest don't need reason to do good. Where as u see most religious people are doing it to get into heaven. "good only for a reward" and how is that good at all
Well, according to my religion, my god will reward its own followers but also atheists with the whimsical fields of Larilia, but send everyone else into the sulfuric acid pits of Boondor, because the capital sin in my religion is worshiping a false faith. So what if I'm right? Hm?
.
Also, what's all this worrying about evil people going to oblivion the same as good? Get yourself a religion that lets good heathens into heaven and burns its own followers when evil. Then you can make that argument.
What if the true God is a hot looking woman with big tits and her only wish was that men obey woman?
What if she sends you to hell for teching the wrong gospel but lets atheists do what they want in heaven for alteast questioning the Christians God's existance?
I hope you enjoy hell father Jeffrey. The enlightment is on me.
What if the Muslims are right, Father Jeffrey? What if the Hindus are right? What if the (fill in the blank) are right? You are arguing from the fallacy know as Pascal's Wager, and it's been debunked to the point that even YOU should know how embarrassing it is. As an atheist I would simply tell whatever god I faced, "I honestly didn't know" whereas YOU will be guilty of worshipping the wrong god, and YOU'LL be the one in a heap of trouble, not me.
@klaudio567 Oh you live in love? That is why you guys kill one another and tell me that I am nothing without god? It is a fact that as I type this I am in fact alive. Religion says a lot of fake things are real and a lot of real things are fake evidentially. It is real that I am alive and I don't need god to verify that for me.
First, no one ever met God, saw God, spoke with God, or had dinner with God. No one. Any time. Any where. The religious fanatic speaks like they are privy to meetings with God and have all the answers. Secondly, religion is riddled with contradictions too numerous and fantastic to mention here. Ex: An all loving God creates an eternal hell if you don't love him back. Sound logical to you? Not to me. Thirdly, religion is no more than superstition and tyranny over man's mind and free will.
If you christians are right. That what you think will happen after death will still be unmoral in my perseption. Even if I my self was "saved" I could not accept it as "just" and "right" to see all that people suffer in hell just becourse they failed to believe in the unbelievable. That´s an order constructed by a sadistic good.. or more likely.. power hungry men that wants to strike fear in to people.
So you are only moral because you are afraid of God? You sound like a horrible person. I would much rather party in hell with my logical counterparts instead of your kind who have lived in fear and disregarded all evidence that piled up at their feet. Faith= belief without proof. Hope Jesus smacks you right across the face for being an illogical coward.
this video shouldve been called " logical fallacies part one". ppl look to clergy for wisdom, understanding & ultimately, clergy are just as dumb as everyone else. they have many slogans that appeal to emotion & ignorance. 330 million gods worshipped today , with evidence for none. meanwhile a corpse is denied as evidence that life isnt eternal. even though its the only real observable evidence showing what happens after death. if you cant handle reality ,fairytales will do.
yes i said that to my christian mother, who is indeed proud of her liberal atheist... why does that mean that i need to see a shrink>? i only tell her to get over herself and her religious self indulgences, because i love her. i hate to see that she is not sleeping in on sundays like she should..i hate to see my own family waste their time on an empty lifestye fad..every assertion that you make is completely unfounded. once again a man in his mid 30's is owned by a 22 yo college student.
... So imagine that the Muslims are right. What will happen then? Well, you'll be judged, except this time, Jesus won't be your advocate. In fact, the fact that you believe so will be the reason you will burn in Muslim hell.
What if there is a god that rewards rationality and punishes ignorance or reality? Then you will surely be punished as well, and the atheist will be rewarded.
So, you could bet on any of these possibilities and they all have an infinitely small chance of being correct.
@ivlfounder I'm not worried about that. I don't believe any any religion has got it right. If there is a god, which I highly doubt, it is a god that doesn't care about us. An irrelevant god.
@ivlfounder How is that relevant? Our existence can be explained without the use of any god. Obviously, it can be explained with the use of one that doesn't care.
@ivlfounder Again, completely irrelevant fact is completely irrelevant. But looking at the animal kingdom, we're not that special. We share 99% of our DNA with the common chimp.
From a logical perspective the fact that we are so alike with chimps on a genetic level makes how different we are all the more amazing.
However I'm not just talking about the difference between man and animals, though that is one level of amazement that you should be able to admire rather than spurn.
@ivlfounder wow... it blows my mind how you persist in publicizing nonsense... you will only continue to be owned until you realize that you are attempting to spread a harmful infection called religion...
@ivlfounder bigotry??? i am most certainly not a bigot... my christian mother is very proud of her liberal atheist... why after you have been intellectually womped, do you continue to argue for the same empty ideas?? like i told you way back in our original debate. as smart as you are, you are just as gullible...
actually pretty much, yes... just because i know that reigion is poison doesnt mean that i hate the people who eat it up... honestly if you want to talk about bigots... you are inherently a bigot. why?? well as a christian man who embraces the bible, you no doubt adhere to the homophobic ideals that are written in it, no?? try and change the subject all you want... you will continue to be womped by people free of the chains of ignorance.. do not talk to any one about anything ever...
I'm going to go out on a limb here and assume you've never heard the phrase "AIDS Harry" do yourself a favor and google it and then tell me do you really think Ministers deserve the comparition?
honestly i will give you credit for a decent point, even though i have never heard of the word comparition. but it only shows how they are infected. like christopher hitchens says, reigion makes fine people do wretched deeds. like a rabbi performing a bris. it just sounds like a bris, when it is truly genitile mutilation of an infant. check out edwardtarte. he is a former pastor who does great videos on atheism. he talks about his deconversion and his retribution towards those who he misled
i bet you were genitily mutilated as a child, no? christians are mutilated as well. first off you were the one who made the comparison in the first place and no, ministers are not as bad as the words that their books contain. how arrogant of you to think that you know and are in contact with the creator of all. how brazen of you to claim that you know the meaning to life.
i already have told my parents that... how come you only have no answers of substance... all you have are irrelevant tangents... it strikes me as no surprize that you think that a diversion serves an answer. you are a christian after all... doesnt getting owned by non-believers on youtube all day get old to you?? make a substantial argument for once... i dont blame you for not having any good points... usually things that are fake dont normally hold up in a good argument...
@ivlfounder yes i did tell them that... no i dont see a therapist, and dont have the need to... you aint got shit to say to anyone founder... please just give me one example of an argument that you have in support of your gods existence... just one...
Your premise is this: Either God exists or he doesn't. Of course, this is perfectly valid. The problem though, is that it isn't really 50:50.
Your argument can be expanded into infinity this way: Either God exists or Allah exists or Cthulhu exists or FSM exists or Lord Xenu exists or all of them exist or two of them exist or none of them exist. I could add literally any supernatural being that I'd like to that list. Continuing...
All he's saying is, "It'd be nice if religious perspectives were right, because then we get justice," he states nothing else. Life wasn't made to be fair, bad people get away with bad things, TOUGH LUCK, doesn't mean the world has to twist reality to serve justice. That's what laws are made for.
So... we should consider grovelling to the jealous, vengeful God portrayed in the Bible *just in case*. How feeble.That is simply bowing to authority, as one might to a vicious, powerful dictator.
Why should He prefer the snivelling yes-men...? I But if He does, then frankly I want nothing to do with him...and you know what they say....~Hell for company, Heaven for climate~
atheists do not discourage pursuit of spiritual happiness. It is the atheist position that scientific skepticism is the ultimate decider of fact, and spirituality is a source of mental stability and peace. Don't confuse spirituality with religious tendencies father.
If God gives your life meaning, what give's God's life meaning?
Atheists are right. People don't choose to be good because they're afraid of the wrath of a vengeful God in the afterlife but, because they're afraid of the wrath of a vengeful jury in real life.
Morality doesn't come from divine guidance, it comes from compassion and common sense. If you lack either of these, no amount of prayer or worship is going to fix your crazy ass.
@ivlfounder "[humans are pretty stupid] ... Compare to what?"
Not compared to anything. Just as an independant analysis of our ability to understand things. I sincerely believe that, given the time and the necessary information and materials, there's nothing that the whole of the human race is incapable of understanding. There's never been anything to suggest otherwise. Our knowledge as a species has increased exponentially over the last 150 or so years.
I never said we were stupid. That's the religious belief (a.k.a. there are some things we are mentally incapable of understanding). I believe as a species we are capable of understanding anything eventually, and I've stated that from the begining. This is NOT a statement about individual humans, mind you...
@ivlfounder "Yes well you have you're beliefs and I have my facts."
As I've stated before, it doesn't matter how much you believe in something - that doesn't make it a fact. What makes something a fact is when it is true, in reality, regardless of who believes it or not. And the only objective way to assess this is with science, logic and reason. So if your belief has some real, testable foundation in science, logic and reason, please share.
@ivlfounder "And the atheists are not right it has in fact been proven that people who believe God is watching are more moral."
Cite your reference if you want to make a claim like that. (Something tells me it is from a religious source, and not an impartial or scientific source). Further, I consider someone to be more moral if they are moral for instrinsic reasons and not because their afraid of magical beings and supernatural punishments.
For there to be a punisher "god" THAN WHY THE FACK would god create such evil people in the first place like stalin and hitler... doesn't god have a divine plan, and praying, wouldnt that destroy gods divine plan, ur fucking his plans up for your brand new Lamborghini(dreams of course), its all irrelevant when we come to the conclusion that, such mythical things existing, like saying little kids with imaginary friends are wrong when you too believe in such a thing, excuse me 4 spelling/grammer
exactly right, you point out the basis of all religion, REVENGE. You fake holies desire the punishment of others, that makes you evil. I am an atheist, but if I am wrong, logic suggest your god would like me more than you, because I do right for the right reasons, not for reward.
I would rather have truly nice people in my heaven then people like you, people who feel joy thinking non believers will burn forever, people like you who think you can buy heaven
I am agnostic, therefore I can't be wrong. My position is "I don't know if there is a god". If it turns out that God does exist, I'm not wrong. If it turns out that there is no god, I'm not right. If the 1 in 1 000 000 000 000 000 chance that the bible is correct does hit, then when I die, I will be able to look ST Peter right in the eye and honestly say, "I didn't know!" "God did such a perfect job of making all religions look false that I could only come to one conclusion, it is inconclusive.
@jmg94j You don't really know what the term "agnostic" means. "Agnostic" is just an addition to either theist or atheist. Most atheists are agnostic, by which they don't claim certainty that no god exists. Many theists are gnostic, which means that they claim with certainty that god does exist. There is no such thing as a neutral agnostic, because if you don't know, then you don't believe either. And that makes you an atheist.
Yes, come to think of it, I do want to meet him. For he loves me, he loves everyone. It was pure love he was spreading in world war 1, the inquisition, Port-au-Prince, Bhopal, Korea, Nagasaki, Iraq, Jonestown, Uganda, Cambodja, the churches with the childloving priests, world war 2, Sudan, Banda Atjeh, Afghanisthan, Vietnam, Hiroshima, the gulags, Srebrenica, Sudan, Krakatau, Armenia, the crusades, New York, the tsunami, Pompeii, the plague, Galveston and Tangshan. Pure compassionate love...
I forgot to mention that while I disagree with the author of this video, I still did like the video. It is a valid perspective presented in an inviting (rather than oppressive) manner. Well done.
AlbinosaurusR3X 1 month ago
As for the idea of justice, what is justice? Retribution? The consequence of one's actions? Giving unto one that which he deserves? Unfortunately, justice in the sense used in the video doesn't exist to an atheist. On the other hand, how many crimes have been carried out in the name of "God?" Where is the justice in that? It all evens out eventually. There are many people of strong virtue and character who do great works of good, and their justice is that they lived the best they could.
AlbinosaurusR3X 3 months ago
These text boxes are too small...
Anyway, being as I don't believe in God/gods, I have no fear of "judgment." I say this not to denounce the faith of those who do believe, but my perspective dictates that it would be inconsistent with what I do believe. If I had reason to fear such a thing, I would be forced to admit that I believe it exists, and should then find a path of faith to avert such an event. Such is not the case. I have nothing to fear but fear itself.
AlbinosaurusR3X 3 months ago
@AlbinosaurusR3X if you don't believe in gods then you are an atheist, gnosticism is related to knowledge, not belief.
mauriciohavok 1 month ago
@mauriciohavok I'm sorry, my friend, but you need to review your definitions and what qualifies as agnostic. The reason I say I am is because there is no verifiable proof in one direction or the other to claim absolute certainty over the existence of God/gods. That is what qualifies me as one. I also said I lean towards atheism because the lack of said proof favors (but does not prove) the absence of such beings. Hence, I (tentatively) don't believe in them.
AlbinosaurusR3X 1 month ago
@AlbinosaurusR3X Yes, you are correct, and technically we're all agnostics, when you are talking about a belief in a god, if you lack them (not say that there is no god, but just saying you don't believe in a god in the same way you don't believe there is no god makes you an atheist.
mauriciohavok 1 month ago
@mauriciohavok You clearly don't know what you're talking about. It's not a put-down, but you are wrong. It would be better to just let it go as arguing about it is pointless. Focus instead on the other parts of my messages.
AlbinosaurusR3X 1 month ago
@AlbinosaurusR3X I'm not arguing, and well I agree with everything else on your comments, that's why I only adressed the issue of the definitions of agnosticism and atheism, as far as the definitions I know you are an agnostic atheist, but who cares about definitions? the point is you are a free thinker and kudos to you for that :)
mauriciohavok 1 month ago
@mauriciohavok I find my own views towards it are pretty split as:
65% Atheist: Until some kind of tangible evidence that --everyone-- can agree on becomes available to say that a god does exist.
35% Agnostic: There is the potential that god(s) exist(s), so I try to be fair and reserve absolute statements, but the lack of evidence is itself more compelling than the mere possibility.
I tend to defend the atheist side in debate, as most religious debaters are not fair in theirs.
AlbinosaurusR3X 1 month ago
@AlbinosaurusR3X On that same note, Father Jeffrey does not come across as those in that generalized group, and that's why I like his videos--even when it involves the perceived truths from that side of the spectrum. Since he goes through the extra trouble to be respectful of non-religious people while still arguing his side, I return that respect by listening to his side in the same manner (even if I disagree). However, I do view him as "an exception to the rule."
AlbinosaurusR3X 1 month ago
As a self-proclaimed agnostic (though, admittedly I do lean towards atheism), I have to say that I respect this about religion: Most forms of religion teach love, decency, virtue, and strong moral character. Even when I disagree about their particular morals, especially where dogma is concerned, I find that those who strive to live as kind, decent people shed a very positive light on the faith they embrace.
AlbinosaurusR3X 3 months ago
Catholic priest asks the question: what if pedophilia is right? or what if the world was round? or what bible crime did you like the most? what holy war did you like best? wtich of the 112,368 gods and goddesses are real ? why god hate's fags?
Butarazvan 7 months ago
test
ivlfounder 1 year ago
If I meet God when I die and he insists on sending me for a lifetime in hell because I didn't believe in him, even after I've led a good life and there's no evidence for his existence, then that would make God utterly malignant and complete hypocrite.
This is Pascal's Wager, and it's nonsense.
meerkw 1 year ago
despite good intentions, the logical pathway of, well the consequences of this side suck so il go with the other side is just rediculous
phishUMup 1 year ago
The is no god or judgement.
But if we want to suppose there will be one, i' ll judge god as an incompetent sadist.
I would send god to hell, that would be a fair judgement.
ChristianIce 1 year ago
@ChristianIce
What a childish post.
ivlfounder 1 year ago
@ivlfounder
Nothing is chilidish in a lack of beilief.
If you don't have anything to say, just don't write.
ChristianIce 1 year ago
@ChristianIce
Your POST was childish and it remains so.
ivlfounder 1 year ago
@ivlfounder
No, I called god an INCOMPETENT, and it's incompetence is reported on the bible.
THere is nothing chidish in calling the things with the right names.
ChristianIce 1 year ago
@ChristianIce
Oh I see if you don't get it others are to blame.
You must have been sent to the principal office frequently.
ivlfounder 1 year ago
@ivlfounder
I don't know why you are in love with me kid, but since you like to talk, please tell me why this planet is designed with: "earthquakes, volcano eruptions, tornadoes, tzunamies, genetic disesases, handicaps".
Now please describe WHY an "intelligent" designer should put those terrible things in place, or accept that OUTSIDE the religious BUBBLE OF NO THINKING, the imaginary character of god is a silly incompetent and a sadist.
ChristianIce 1 year ago
@ChristianIce
Oh I get it on the one hand you don't believe there's such thing as good bad right or wrong but at the same time you want to accuse God of being an evil sadist.
Get back to your pudding grandpa.
ivlfounder 1 year ago
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@ivlfounder
"Oh I get it"
No you don't, Answer the question or STFU.
ChristianIce 1 year ago
@ivlfounder
No, you don't get it.
In fact i made a question and you didn't' reply ... that means that the words flow in front of you but you don't get anything.
Answer the question or shut up.
ChristianIce 1 year ago
@ChristianIce
lol you've been busted wanting to hate God for things you don't have any problem with.
Go ahead try to make me shut up.
ivlfounder 1 year ago
@ivlfounder
No, i want you to talk, just please try to stay on topic .. can you?
Now .. your answer.
(P.S. I don't hate god, doesn't make sense to hate imaginary beings)
ChristianIce 1 year ago
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@ChristianIce
Oh no you just plan that if there is an after life you're going to judge god as an incompetent sadist.
Nothing remotely childish or hate filled about that.
ivlfounder 1 year ago
@ChristianIce
Let me put it this way: You view God as a human with powers.
Like a child would.
ivlfounder 1 year ago
@ivlfounder
I see the character of god exactly as how he is described, and yes, I have to agree, it's a childish description.
Fact is, if there is an omnipotent and omniscent god, he is the author of everything. period.
Now, unless believers like to use "big words" without a grasp on the meaning, they sure can reply to simple questions in a direct way, using logic and reason.
If you can't, just don't reply, I'll find somebody else that actually can answer a question instead of pretending.
ChristianIce 1 year ago
@ChristianIce
Your reliance on how you think the Bibles describes God is amusing.
ivlfounder 1 year ago
@ivlfounder
Bla bla bla, but you can't reply.
your last chance:
"what is the point of a killing earthquake or handicap in god's creation".
Quick, fast and direct kid, cause you are getting annoying.
ChristianIce 1 year ago
@ChristianIce
I could explain to you that God may have as many reasons for allowing disability as there are disabled people.
I could explain to you that humans are frequently arrogant and natural disasters may be God's way of humbling us and that most of dead automatically go to heaven.
I could tell you any number of things though they are just theories.
But frankly Grandpa I really don't give a care if you're annoyed.
ivlfounder 1 year ago
@ivlfounder
You could .. failed, as i suspected.
And I am not INFORMING you you that you are annoying, i am blaming you for that.
Anyway you had your last chance, we don't have nothing to talk about anymore.
Say hi to Skydaddy and Wonder Woman from me.
Nite.
ChristianIce 1 year ago
@ChristianIce
LOL Your failure to understand is not the fault of the teacher.
Again you must have spend countless hours in the principal office for mouthing off when you failed every subject.
ivlfounder 1 year ago
@ivlfounder
The teacher???
Muhahahahahahahahahaha
Go get milk and cookies kid :D
..cuuuuuute he thinks he is a teacher awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww
ChristianIce 1 year ago
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@ChristianIce
I guess it's true then.
You can't teach an old dog new tricks.
ivlfounder 1 year ago
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@ChristianIce
Yeah what was I thinking?
Everyone knows ya can't teach an 0ld d0g new tricks.
ivlfounder 1 year ago
@ChristianIce
Someone dateline this creepy old man thinks I'm a kid and is offering me cookies!
ivlfounder 1 year ago
Okay let's pretend Christians are right. Would it be fair to punish Atheist just 'cause they thought logical with their given mind?
If the Atheist is a good person in heart?
Soap1O 1 year ago
u do know that in the bible is says that if u dont accept god, ur gonna burn in hell... so all atheists wont be given a second chance... we will all burn in your hell, even if weve been kind and goodhearted, loved and loving, we will all burn in hell! for all eternity!
The fear of hell, one of the very basics of Christianity, scare the people into belief! Control the masses! Control their minds!
Stalin and Mao...well Hitler was a christian... i dont blame christians for the holocaust tho
BubbyFury 1 year ago
@BubbyFury the christian is selfish, they are good because they are afraid of what will happen to THEM, the atheist is good because it benefits society
phishUMup 1 year ago
@phishUMup
ESL?
There is no "the christian", there are Chrisitans who are good: because it feels good, because they know it's the right thing to do, because their Church tells them to be and so many more reasons per person.
Atheists on the other hand while they can been good for two of the reasons listed can't be good for the third or any others. Atheists however can also be evil because in the absence of someone to say no there is nothing to stop them. Dawkins doesn't even believe in good.
ivlfounder 1 year ago
@ivlfounder ill admit that was a dumb comment, didn't quite convey the point i was going for. i do however agree with dawkins that good is a subjective, societal construct instead of an absolute
phishUMup 1 year ago
@phishUMup
Being able to say you screwed up is a good thing (not enough people can do it).
Dawkins however feels that torturing babies for sport isn't evil.
Makes you wonder what he'd do if he was a dictator doesn't it?
ivlfounder 1 year ago
@ivlfounder no, dawkins in no way believes that, and i hope you dont truly believe he does. the huge gap between the atheists understanding of religion and the religious understanding of atheism is uncrossable. due to this lack of understanding i will no longer discuss this topic with you, but please refrain from making any more reductio ad absurdum, straw man or other grand misrepresentations of a group of people that fundamentally you truly do not understand, your comments demonstrate this.
phishUMup 1 year ago
@phishUMup
No seriously Dawkins literally said evil doesn't exist.
ivlfounder 1 year ago
@ivlfounder and you cannot grasp his concept when he says that, this is my point. the atheist and the believer operate on completely different methodologies of thinking. so when you hear dawkins say that evil doesn't exist you completely miss the point, and that is exactly what you are doing... missing the point. i will not explain it to you but i will ask that you either read his books or have a nice conversation with your local atheist before you continue with your straw man crusade
phishUMup 1 year ago
@phishUMup
"you cannot grasp his concept when he says that"
I have no problem grasping the concept and no reason to pretend he didn't say what he did.
I feel sorry for those who don't see the torture of babies for sport as evil, and feel concern for their neighbors.
ivlfounder 1 year ago
@ivlfounder 2 can play this game, so whip out your handy dandy bible and we'll see what you believe
exodus 21:7 you can sell your daughter into servitude and she may not go free as males do
exodus 21:17 kill those who curse their parents
exodus 21:20 beating your slaves/ servants is OK as long as they don't die
exodus 22:17 witches must be killed
Leviticus 21:13 homosexuals must be killed
Leviticus 21:10 adulterers must be killed
Leviticus 21:9 a priests daughters burned alive
(cont)
phishUMup 1 year ago
@phishUMup
Dawkins doesn't consider any of those things evil.
ivlfounder 1 year ago
@ivlfounder no, but he considers them morally wrong, that is the point. evil is nothing but a social construct. i know these things are wrong because society has deemed them evil. if you got your sense of good and evil completely from the bible and god, and not from society you would be out there massacring homosexuals. dawkins argument is simply that, there is no tangible thing such as evil, simply the moral codes developed by culture and society and he believes these should be followed
phishUMup 1 year ago
@phishUMup
Does he really or is that just what he's telling people?
ivlfounder 1 year ago
@ivlfounder you seem to have degraded your argument down to useless speculation. i would expect nothing less in this type of debate. now if you will excuse me i have several babies waiting to be tortured and i have to finish in an hour in a half so i can make it to my weekly hail hitler society meeting where dawkins will lead us in our discussions in how to undermine society.
phishUMup 1 year ago
@phishUMup
What's to prevent Dawkins from lying?
ivlfounder 1 year ago
@ivlfounder what reason does he have to lie. and more importantly who the hell really cares what dawkins believes that was never the point but you seem to have made it that. i believed what i believe long before i read the god delusion, dawkins has no effect on my beliefs. you make a stupid comment about how only atheists can be evil and in my attempts to explain an atheists concept of evil to you, you have completely changed the subject to whether dawkins is telling the truth, WHO CARES
phishUMup 1 year ago
@phishUMup
"what reason does he have to lie."
pick one.
ivlfounder 1 year ago
@ivlfounder (cont.)
what prevented ted haggard from lying?
how about all those preists?
we can play this game all day long, but you cannot judge a group of people by the actions of one. so even if richard dawkins is the greatest liar in history and he routinely plays kickball with stolen fetuses it truly says nothing about atheism, otherwise i could make the statement, based on the same logic, that all christians are meth-addicted abortion clinic bombers. which i do not believe
phishUMup 1 year ago
@ivlfounder (cont)
Deuteronomy 13:13-19 Kill the non-believers
Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB Kill the non-believers
Jeremiah 48:10 You better mean it when you kill for god
2 Chronicles 15:12-13 Kill the non-believers
Leviticus 20:27 Kill any mediums/ fortunetellers
1 Samuel 6:19 50,000 people were killed for being curious
i could go on for days. the point being that i don't believe christians are capable of all this murder. but i could make a good case couldn't i. its easy to make a strawman
phishUMup 1 year ago
Oblivion sounds dismal? Sounds alot better than eternal burning in a lake of fire. An eternal sleep has something comforting about it, especially to those suffering on their bed.
But I would not damn a single man in order to give an entire nation eternal bliss. To be so accepting of eternal torment without purpose or respite? That's dismal.
Sines314 1 year ago
Ah, sky cake. Why are you so delicious?
TKtheSLACKER 1 year ago
why is it that religious people think that they have some monopoly on morality, when they have a pretty shabby record at it? Look, personal morality is one of the few actual freedoms we as humans posess. I don't care why you have it, just use it, and don't try to trick others into it because of the consequences of hell, just let people know it's the right thing to do for it's own sake, not because you'll get into trouble if you don't.
TheFightfirewithbaco 1 year ago
@TheFightfirewithbaco
You should ask the same of atheists.
ivlfounder 1 year ago
@ivlfounder that is because one religions morality is no better than any other, and yet they all clearly state that they are right, and every other is wrong from the outset. Religion doesn't allow for tolerance of other religions, hell, the big three's books only say the end times will begin once their enemies are wiped out. Basically encouraging it in two, and outright saying it in the other. Religion is not morality, it is faith, which is not the same thing.
TheFightfirewithbaco 1 year ago
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ivlfounder 1 year ago
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ivlfounder 1 year ago
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@TheFightfirewithbaco
" one religions morality is no better than any other"
What a load of bs.
ivlfounder 1 year ago
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@TheFightfirewithbaco
"one religions morality is no better than any other"
LOL
ivlfounder 1 year ago
@TheFightfirewithbaco
BS
ivlfounder 1 year ago
@ivlfounder, another eloquent retort from the god fearing folk.
TheFightfirewithbaco 1 year ago
@TheFightfirewithbaco
I was having computer problems and thought I'd kill two birds with one stone.
ivlfounder 1 year ago
You need to change the title on this posting - you spent less than half the video speaking about what the title says!
jagara1 1 year ago
@jagara1 Good idea
FatherJeffrey 1 year ago
@FatherJeffrey I didn't know that religious people were only good to be rewarded.
mauriciohavok 1 month ago
LOL and you really think religion didnt bring around millions of deaths too??? religion has been big for over 1000 years, add all the deaths up due to fighting of between and within religions it would be endless. And is he trying to say suffering of children and elderly, and all the crueltys around the world can be fixed by religion??? hahahaha ''god'' doesnt give a fuck, because ''god'' doesnt fucking exist, and so ''god'' isnt going to do SHIT!!!! :)
benhoshinji 1 year ago
Father Jeffrey, you have given examples of men who were very evil, who murdered many people and stated that if the atheist are right, then these men are getting off the hook. That justice is not being served in death. This implies that you think eternal damnation and torture is justice for these people. Eternity is forever. I think killing and torturing 1 person forever may be more severe than killing all the people on earth in one lifetime.
danielkyleh 1 year ago
You just made me wanna play Elder Scrolls
Snaggbash2000 1 year ago
He says that if atheists are right, then goodness has no ultimate value. That the times I've helped old ladies with her shopping trolleys, it had no value. Granted maybe not to me, and maybe not on a cosmic scale, but it sure helps them a lot...
darkcaste 1 year ago
death two tha atheist
Americarox1776 1 year ago
Yeah Stalin did bad things because he was a corrupt and lost person..
RockyBalboa211 1 year ago
yes WHAT IF humans come from adam&eve and every single piece of scientific evidence from the millions and millions of evidence is wrong? it' is a very likely situation
Samura1gamer 1 year ago
exactly, religion is not bad... however when religion starts to push past morale and encouragement for good, that is when the question of whether or not it is really "needed" in the world...
zizn8r 1 year ago
Let's stop this whole bit with Stalin. Stalin was an atheist, but just like hitler, he did NOT do bad things because of his religious views.
yohiwasupman 1 year ago
Stalin HAS to be punished by demons? (he is dead, better try punishing alive infant-abusing priests and religious bigots of modern day..) Dragons and faeries MUST be real!! Yeah..
This non-sense is completely immoral. A man with a thick white beard speaking like a begging kid. Unbelievable.
Stop wanking your mind and face real life.
telmopaz 1 year ago
And He would had been paid for saying this shit …form your money all of his life … not doing any real benefit to society at all! …think on this when you pay money to the church …. When will philosophers get a pay check each month from you, I am sure it would be an better investment and better advice given from philosophers… even the bad ones!
allanchrist 1 year ago
your a fucking moron, religion is a scam
gojetsandpackers 1 year ago
I find this video very honest.
dankuck 1 year ago
so Jesus is your lawyer? Don't all lawyers go to hell?
jbeg16 1 year ago
I'm not Christian, I'm agnostic. A borderline Atheist, and I do my research and study on all religion daily so I know what I believe. And even though I am not a religious person, I still think what you said was very deep and was more logical than any other priest I've ever heard speak. Keep doing what you do, Father Jeffrey.
larry52333 1 year ago
People seriously believe, this man is educated.
I hate that spirituality and theology are seen as topics of education rather than of ig'nance
SPACKlick 1 year ago
Jesus as lawyer and judge...sounds really not a jugdment. sounds like a cheap way in.
Beefdipings 1 year ago
well bub it sucks. but its true. we dont hash the facts to fit or fear of the unknown.
matteomcgegor1 1 year ago
that's stupid...... yes, IT WOULD BE UNFAIR! So what? All you are saying is "Only because it is unfair that murderers end up like good people - God exists!"
It is unfair that they get to the position to murder so many people and to have so much power to live on without punishment on the first place -.- THAT is unfair..
With that logic - god DOESN'T exist. How about that?
Because then he wouldn't let those men who do crimes commit the crime at the first place.
LordEmilous 1 year ago
dude seriously. Most athiest don't need reason to do good. Where as u see most religious people are doing it to get into heaven. "good only for a reward" and how is that good at all
sameritaco 1 year ago
and once again, where is the evidence?
livingska 1 year ago
Why does Justice always need to be served? It's barbaric
livingska 1 year ago
Well, according to my religion, my god will reward its own followers but also atheists with the whimsical fields of Larilia, but send everyone else into the sulfuric acid pits of Boondor, because the capital sin in my religion is worshiping a false faith. So what if I'm right? Hm?
.
Also, what's all this worrying about evil people going to oblivion the same as good? Get yourself a religion that lets good heathens into heaven and burns its own followers when evil. Then you can make that argument.
medexamtoolsdotcom 1 year ago
What if the true God is a hot looking woman with big tits and her only wish was that men obey woman?
What if she sends you to hell for teching the wrong gospel but lets atheists do what they want in heaven for alteast questioning the Christians God's existance?
I hope you enjoy hell father Jeffrey. The enlightment is on me.
adobePC 1 year ago
What if the Muslims are right, Father Jeffrey? What if the Hindus are right? What if the (fill in the blank) are right? You are arguing from the fallacy know as Pascal's Wager, and it's been debunked to the point that even YOU should know how embarrassing it is. As an atheist I would simply tell whatever god I faced, "I honestly didn't know" whereas YOU will be guilty of worshipping the wrong god, and YOU'LL be the one in a heap of trouble, not me.
SubconsciousGatherer 1 year ago 18
@SubconsciousGatherer
If the Muslims are right is a concern for you ya need to convert.
ivlfounder 1 year ago
@klaudio567 Oh you live in love? That is why you guys kill one another and tell me that I am nothing without god? It is a fact that as I type this I am in fact alive. Religion says a lot of fake things are real and a lot of real things are fake evidentially. It is real that I am alive and I don't need god to verify that for me.
optimusmafia 1 year ago
First, no one ever met God, saw God, spoke with God, or had dinner with God. No one. Any time. Any where. The religious fanatic speaks like they are privy to meetings with God and have all the answers. Secondly, religion is riddled with contradictions too numerous and fantastic to mention here. Ex: An all loving God creates an eternal hell if you don't love him back. Sound logical to you? Not to me. Thirdly, religion is no more than superstition and tyranny over man's mind and free will.
TheTonylearner 1 year ago
If you christians are right. That what you think will happen after death will still be unmoral in my perseption. Even if I my self was "saved" I could not accept it as "just" and "right" to see all that people suffer in hell just becourse they failed to believe in the unbelievable. That´s an order constructed by a sadistic good.. or more likely.. power hungry men that wants to strike fear in to people.
Faidros62 1 year ago
So you believe because you are afraid of the consequences? I'm pretty sure god could see through your ingenuine thoughts.
airplaneking 1 year ago
So you are only moral because you are afraid of God? You sound like a horrible person. I would much rather party in hell with my logical counterparts instead of your kind who have lived in fear and disregarded all evidence that piled up at their feet. Faith= belief without proof. Hope Jesus smacks you right across the face for being an illogical coward.
optimusmafia 1 year ago 16
@optimusmafia epic win
Blackhawk1913 1 year ago
@optimusmafia better to reign in hell then serve in heaven
subj3ctX 1 year ago
@subj3ctX Well said
optimusmafia 1 year ago
@optimusmafia You sound like a disgusting horrid ill human being
eireshane81 10 months ago
this video shouldve been called " logical fallacies part one". ppl look to clergy for wisdom, understanding & ultimately, clergy are just as dumb as everyone else. they have many slogans that appeal to emotion & ignorance. 330 million gods worshipped today , with evidence for none. meanwhile a corpse is denied as evidence that life isnt eternal. even though its the only real observable evidence showing what happens after death. if you cant handle reality ,fairytales will do.
executionerofgod 1 year ago
yes i said that to my christian mother, who is indeed proud of her liberal atheist... why does that mean that i need to see a shrink>? i only tell her to get over herself and her religious self indulgences, because i love her. i hate to see that she is not sleeping in on sundays like she should..i hate to see my own family waste their time on an empty lifestye fad..every assertion that you make is completely unfounded. once again a man in his mid 30's is owned by a 22 yo college student.
crankycactus 1 year ago
... So imagine that the Muslims are right. What will happen then? Well, you'll be judged, except this time, Jesus won't be your advocate. In fact, the fact that you believe so will be the reason you will burn in Muslim hell.
What if there is a god that rewards rationality and punishes ignorance or reality? Then you will surely be punished as well, and the atheist will be rewarded.
So, you could bet on any of these possibilities and they all have an infinitely small chance of being correct.
pr0kris 1 year ago
@pr0kris
If you're worried about that why aren't you a Muslim?
ivlfounder 1 year ago
@ivlfounder I'm not worried about that. I don't believe any any religion has got it right. If there is a god, which I highly doubt, it is a god that doesn't care about us. An irrelevant god.
pr0kris 1 year ago
@pr0kris
Yet we exist.
ivlfounder 1 year ago
@ivlfounder How is that relevant? Our existence can be explained without the use of any god. Obviously, it can be explained with the use of one that doesn't care.
pr0kris 1 year ago
@pr0kris
Do you have any idea just how unusual human life is?
ivlfounder 1 year ago
@ivlfounder Again, completely irrelevant fact is completely irrelevant. But looking at the animal kingdom, we're not that special. We share 99% of our DNA with the common chimp.
pr0kris 1 year ago
@pr0kris
From a logical perspective the fact that we are so alike with chimps on a genetic level makes how different we are all the more amazing.
However I'm not just talking about the difference between man and animals, though that is one level of amazement that you should be able to admire rather than spurn.
ivlfounder 1 year ago
@ivlfounder What you don't realize though, is that you have absolutely no argument for the existence of any deity.
pr0kris 1 year ago
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@pr0kris
Maybe you didn't read my last post.
From a logical perspective the fact that we are so alike with chimps on a genetic level makes how different we are all the more amazing.
ivlfounder 1 year ago
@ivlfounder wow... it blows my mind how you persist in publicizing nonsense... you will only continue to be owned until you realize that you are attempting to spread a harmful infection called religion...
crankycactus 1 year ago
@crankycactus
Nice bit of bigotry there crank.
Your mother must be real proud of you.
ivlfounder 1 year ago
@ivlfounder bigotry??? i am most certainly not a bigot... my christian mother is very proud of her liberal atheist... why after you have been intellectually womped, do you continue to argue for the same empty ideas?? like i told you way back in our original debate. as smart as you are, you are just as gullible...
crankycactus 1 year ago
@crankycactus
You call religion a harmful infection.
What does that make Ministers?
AIDS Harry's?
ivlfounder 1 year ago
actually pretty much, yes... just because i know that reigion is poison doesnt mean that i hate the people who eat it up... honestly if you want to talk about bigots... you are inherently a bigot. why?? well as a christian man who embraces the bible, you no doubt adhere to the homophobic ideals that are written in it, no?? try and change the subject all you want... you will continue to be womped by people free of the chains of ignorance.. do not talk to any one about anything ever...
crankycactus 1 year ago
@crankycactus
I'm going to go out on a limb here and assume you've never heard the phrase "AIDS Harry" do yourself a favor and google it and then tell me do you really think Ministers deserve the comparition?
ivlfounder 1 year ago
honestly i will give you credit for a decent point, even though i have never heard of the word comparition. but it only shows how they are infected. like christopher hitchens says, reigion makes fine people do wretched deeds. like a rabbi performing a bris. it just sounds like a bris, when it is truly genitile mutilation of an infant. check out edwardtarte. he is a former pastor who does great videos on atheism. he talks about his deconversion and his retribution towards those who he misled
crankycactus 1 year ago
@crankycactus
Sorry but I'm not Jewish.
And you haven't answered my question yet.
ivlfounder 1 year ago
i bet you were genitily mutilated as a child, no? christians are mutilated as well. first off you were the one who made the comparison in the first place and no, ministers are not as bad as the words that their books contain. how arrogant of you to think that you know and are in contact with the creator of all. how brazen of you to claim that you know the meaning to life.
crankycactus 1 year ago
@crankycactus
As I said before I'm not Jewish.
ivlfounder 1 year ago
there IS an antidote to the infection that you have. get the fuck over yourself. it is not your fault that you got bad information.
crankycactus 1 year ago
@crankycactus
Are you planning to tell your parents that?
ivlfounder 1 year ago
@crankycactus
Are you planning to tell your parents that?
ivlfounder 1 year ago
i already have told my parents that... how come you only have no answers of substance... all you have are irrelevant tangents... it strikes me as no surprize that you think that a diversion serves an answer. you are a christian after all... doesnt getting owned by non-believers on youtube all day get old to you?? make a substantial argument for once... i dont blame you for not having any good points... usually things that are fake dont normally hold up in a good argument...
crankycactus 1 year ago
@crankycactus
You told your parents to get the fuck over yourself?
Are you seeing a therapist?
ivlfounder 1 year ago
@ivlfounder yes i did tell them that... no i dont see a therapist, and dont have the need to... you aint got shit to say to anyone founder... please just give me one example of an argument that you have in support of your gods existence... just one...
crankycactus 1 year ago
@crankycactus
You said this to your "christian mother" who you previously claimed is "very proud of her liberal atheist."?
Wow you really do need to see a shrink.
ivlfounder 1 year ago
FatherJeffrey:
Your premise is this: Either God exists or he doesn't. Of course, this is perfectly valid. The problem though, is that it isn't really 50:50.
Your argument can be expanded into infinity this way: Either God exists or Allah exists or Cthulhu exists or FSM exists or Lord Xenu exists or all of them exist or two of them exist or none of them exist. I could add literally any supernatural being that I'd like to that list. Continuing...
pr0kris 1 year ago
So you, father jeffrey, believe in GOD, because you want bad people to be punished?
Ko252 1 year ago
@Ko252
Do you think it right that people who steal for fun suffer no consequences?
ivlfounder 1 year ago
@ivlfounder Damn, I hit the wrong button, and gave you a thumb up. Seriously, you answer my question with another question?
Ko252 1 year ago
All he's saying is, "It'd be nice if religious perspectives were right, because then we get justice," he states nothing else. Life wasn't made to be fair, bad people get away with bad things, TOUGH LUCK, doesn't mean the world has to twist reality to serve justice. That's what laws are made for.
SuperPandas 1 year ago
So... we should consider grovelling to the jealous, vengeful God portrayed in the Bible *just in case*. How feeble.That is simply bowing to authority, as one might to a vicious, powerful dictator.
Why should He prefer the snivelling yes-men...? I But if He does, then frankly I want nothing to do with him...and you know what they say....~Hell for company, Heaven for climate~
Janeblueheaven7 1 year ago
you are sooo cute!!!
atheists do not discourage pursuit of spiritual happiness. It is the atheist position that scientific skepticism is the ultimate decider of fact, and spirituality is a source of mental stability and peace. Don't confuse spirituality with religious tendencies father.
metalicboy 1 year ago
google Doe's Account, mindblowing stuff
trumanrosefire 1 year ago
come to atheism,
jump in, the water's cold, but refreshing
carterj25 1 year ago
If God gives your life meaning, what give's God's life meaning?
Atheists are right. People don't choose to be good because they're afraid of the wrath of a vengeful God in the afterlife but, because they're afraid of the wrath of a vengeful jury in real life.
Morality doesn't come from divine guidance, it comes from compassion and common sense. If you lack either of these, no amount of prayer or worship is going to fix your crazy ass.
VerumAdNauseam 1 year ago
You assume both that God's "life" needs a meaning that a human could understand.
And the atheists are not right it has in fact been proven that people who believe God is watching are more moral.
ivlfounder 1 year ago
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BailiffQuimby 1 year ago
@BailiffQuimby
"You assume that humans are pretty stupid."
Compare to what?
God?
LOL Even Dawkins says that if God exists chances are we wouldn't understand it's motives.
ivlfounder 1 year ago
@ivlfounder "[humans are pretty stupid] ... Compare to what?"
Not compared to anything. Just as an independant analysis of our ability to understand things. I sincerely believe that, given the time and the necessary information and materials, there's nothing that the whole of the human race is incapable of understanding. There's never been anything to suggest otherwise. Our knowledge as a species has increased exponentially over the last 150 or so years.
BailiffQuimby 1 year ago
So we're stupid.....we're smart......please pick one.
ivlfounder 1 year ago
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@ivlfounder "So we're stupid.....we're smart......please pick "
I never said we were stupid. That's the religious belief (a.k.a. there are some things we are mentally incapable of understanding). I believe as a species we are capable of understanding anything eventually, and I've stated that from the begining. This is NOT a statement about individual humans, mind you...
BailiffQuimby 1 year ago
@ivlfounder
As for Dawkins, I believe his contention was that, if god existed, his actions were nonsensical - not "too clever for us to get".
BailiffQuimby 1 year ago
Yes well you have you're beliefs and I have my facts. :P
ivlfounder 1 year ago
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@ivlfounder "Yes well you have you're beliefs and I have my facts."
As I've stated before, it doesn't matter how much you believe in something - that doesn't make it a fact. What makes something a fact is when it is true, in reality, regardless of who believes it or not. And the only objective way to assess this is with science, logic and reason. So if your belief has some real, testable foundation in science, logic and reason, please share.
BailiffQuimby 1 year ago
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@ivlfounder "And the atheists are not right it has in fact been proven that people who believe God is watching are more moral."
Cite your reference if you want to make a claim like that. (Something tells me it is from a religious source, and not an impartial or scientific source). Further, I consider someone to be more moral if they are moral for instrinsic reasons and not because their afraid of magical beings and supernatural punishments.
BailiffQuimby 1 year ago
For there to be a punisher "god" THAN WHY THE FACK would god create such evil people in the first place like stalin and hitler... doesn't god have a divine plan, and praying, wouldnt that destroy gods divine plan, ur fucking his plans up for your brand new Lamborghini(dreams of course), its all irrelevant when we come to the conclusion that, such mythical things existing, like saying little kids with imaginary friends are wrong when you too believe in such a thing, excuse me 4 spelling/grammer
albokid52 1 year ago
exactly right, you point out the basis of all religion, REVENGE. You fake holies desire the punishment of others, that makes you evil. I am an atheist, but if I am wrong, logic suggest your god would like me more than you, because I do right for the right reasons, not for reward.
I would rather have truly nice people in my heaven then people like you, people who feel joy thinking non believers will burn forever, people like you who think you can buy heaven
johnmonk66 1 year ago
offerred as....a redux of Pascal's wager--shown countless times to be stupid.
GetMeThere1 1 year ago 2
Heaven sounds like a real sausage-fest than for you christians according to this guy. He never once said person he only said man, queer.
TheAlexander356 2 years ago
I am agnostic, therefore I can't be wrong. My position is "I don't know if there is a god". If it turns out that God does exist, I'm not wrong. If it turns out that there is no god, I'm not right. If the 1 in 1 000 000 000 000 000 chance that the bible is correct does hit, then when I die, I will be able to look ST Peter right in the eye and honestly say, "I didn't know!" "God did such a perfect job of making all religions look false that I could only come to one conclusion, it is inconclusive.
jmg94j 2 years ago 6
@jmg94j You don't really know what the term "agnostic" means. "Agnostic" is just an addition to either theist or atheist. Most atheists are agnostic, by which they don't claim certainty that no god exists. Many theists are gnostic, which means that they claim with certainty that god does exist. There is no such thing as a neutral agnostic, because if you don't know, then you don't believe either. And that makes you an atheist.
pr0kris 1 year ago
Yes, come to think of it, I do want to meet him. For he loves me, he loves everyone. It was pure love he was spreading in world war 1, the inquisition, Port-au-Prince, Bhopal, Korea, Nagasaki, Iraq, Jonestown, Uganda, Cambodja, the churches with the childloving priests, world war 2, Sudan, Banda Atjeh, Afghanisthan, Vietnam, Hiroshima, the gulags, Srebrenica, Sudan, Krakatau, Armenia, the crusades, New York, the tsunami, Pompeii, the plague, Galveston and Tangshan. Pure compassionate love...
basismagic 2 years ago