Closer to Truth, Cosmos. Consciousness. God ep # 106 part1

[atbigdog24002]

im disappointed to inform you that Tv show's are very unreliable sources of information when it comes to modern cosmology, philosophy, and astro physics.

[gusb232]

@atbigdog24002 " Tv show's are very unreliable sources...cosmology..."

I might generally agree, Still I think these arguments can either stand on there own or not, And I thought most people would benefit from what I thought was an unbiased examination of both sides.

Did you find some part to particularly disinformation??

[atbigdog24002]

@gusb232 I agree that most ppl. would benefit from an unbiased examination of both sides, and I don't recall anything particularly dis-informational about this clip.

[atbigdog24002]

@gusb232  I agree that most ppl. would benefit from an unbiased examination of both sides, and I don't recall anything particularly dis-informational about this clip. I do appreciate your uploading of this clip though, as some information is better than none, eh.

[mrooster09]

craig knows wassup!!

[taichi197137]

@AgeofReasonXXI....How right you are. Craig is nothing but a Christian apologist!

[AgeOfReasonXXI]

Craig is just unique in being able to make the most absurd and laughable claims with straight face! and make it seem that he believes them! such as that the arguments for God would be convincing in a court of law

[gusb232]

@AgeOfReasonXXI 'God would be convincing in a court of law'

Yeah I wish we could put YHWH on trial.

I havent heard what he thinks about the Dover case and if this is any indication.

[alternativebassist]

@AgeOfReasonXXI the men he interviews are in all probability far more intelligent then you are. The arrogance of such a statement shows just how ignorant you are on this topic. People like you some up what is wrong with modern society.

[gusb232]

@alternativebassist "The arrogance of such a statement shows" what statement are you referring to?

[alternativebassist]

@gusb232 pretty much everything said in the above conversation. It is sad to see philosophy so badly dragged through the mud but I guess what can one expect from people with a name like "ageofreason" lol.

[gusb232]

@alternativebassist Well I some what Agree with him, I do think Craig believes what he says, But in a dishonest way, Because He does not find them convincing arguments for his own belief, He has stated All the philosophical arguments are not why he believes and even if he thought they were debunked, he would still believe. In other words hes not willing to change his mind in the light of new evidence or reasons, His is close minded.

[alternativebassist]

@gusb232 from those few words I can tell that you don't understand cosmology or the philosophy of same, that you don't understand people's beliefs or the philosophical understanding of truth. Finally the main highlight of this is the fact that you think there is something to be debunked. Any philosopher worth their salt would no Craig's stance is perfectly justified; he's a very accomplished philosopher who is also a theist...but you've decided that because he's a theist he's wrong?

[gusb232]

@alternativebassist " I can tell that you don't understand cosmology " Im not an expert but Ive been reading many dozens of book on these subjects in particular, I minored in physics, I dont know what to tell you. But you did address any point you just made a baseless assertions about my ignorance and Bias.

" philosophers worth their salt would no Craig's"

I agree they'd 'no' his stance.

"because he's theist he's wrong?" Yes Theism is wrong, But his arguments stand or fall on their own merits

[alternativebassist]

@gusb232 theism is wrong: yup there you go, my points about your ignorance and bias backed up magnificently; thank you well done! :)

attempting to pick up on my unfortunate mistake just shows that you know very little about philosophy; Craig is a very established philosopher and his arguments are perfectly valid...of course it would take someone who actually understands philosophy and isn't inherently biased to know that. You may be a brilliant physicist but this does not make you a philosopher

[gusb232]

@alternativebassist "my unfortunate mistake just shows that you know very little about philosophy" I dont see how , I used a typo make a turn of phrase.

"Craig is a very established philosopher " I understand that, But no one is above being wrong. Newton was one of the smartest to ever live, but believed in Alchemy and other nonsense.

"does not make you a philosopher" So What Philosophy alone cant establish existence claims, What give Logic Soundness? They cant show A=A, they proven they cant.

[alternativebassist]

@gusb232 without attempting to get into philosophical understanding. Nice one!

ah I see so with that quick connection to Newton you've swept all philosophers into one nice pile of "being wrong". Generalisation much?

Good God Almighty. Can't you see it? Can't you see how arrogant your being? "Philosophy can't establish existence claims" ah yes we'll sweep it all away because we clearly know philosophy better than the philosophers.

[gusb232]

@alternativebassist "Craig is a very established" Still you didnt address my point about him. Hes advancing arguments that he has admitted are not convincing to for him.His philosophy is one giant red herring. If I refuted his All arguments he would still believe.

There is no evidence or reason that would change his mind, What else could we call that but dishonest and close-minded.

[Apologist4Christ973]

@gusb232 But the same thing applies to materialists. ABG, anything but God. Even if God were PROVEN, they would find a loophole. This is human nature.

[alternativebassist]

@gusb232 that's the whole point! Philosophy is all about questioning one's claims and coming to an understanding of the universe based on deep thought. Its not he does not find his own arguments convincing; its that there isn't much evidence for them, that's THE WHOLE point about philosophy; its going above and beyond trying to understand what is almost impossible to understand. Ah but of course scientists already know everything so you can just make any claims you like!

[alternativebassist]

@gusb232 its fantastic that you can think that you can provide your own world view and knowledge to fit every question, its hilarious. Wittegenstein would be turning over in his grave! At least give him the decency of trying to play the language game.

[gusb232]

@alternativebassist " give him the decency of trying to play the language game." " you can provide your own world view and knowledge to fit every question" I doubt you believe Truth is just language game, If so you both are like like a ship without rudder ; the sport of every wind.

[alternativebassist]

@gusb232 ha. Knew it. You don't even know what the language games are =) aside from the multiple variations, understandings, definitions and approaches to truth what's funniest is that you take yourself so seriously on this matter when arguments like yours with regards to philosophy have been shown to be pointless years ago. Science is not the only truth you are not the sole discoverer and provider of "truth". That aside how do you think you could play scrabble with the rules of chess?

[gusb232]

@alternativebassist "arguments like yours with regards to philosophy have been shown to be pointless years ago." Really, Im Simply pointing out you cant assert your existance claim.

"Science is not the only truth you are not the sole discoverer and provider of "truth"." I Never said such things, I think Science is the best method we have to distinguish what is true from what is false, If you have a better method bring it forth? i.e. do you believe the Ptolemaic system, why not?

[gusb232]

@alternativebassist "You don't even know what the language games are =) " No then I was guessing right you are a christian post-modernist, you dont believe in objective truth, its a language game for you and depends on approaches... multiple variation.

[AgeOfReasonXXI]

you've gotta be utterly ignorant (like Craig) to insist that the claims of Jesus were radical and he's the only one who's ever claimed to be God! tha's one of the most silly myths, repeated over and over by evangelicals.

to borrow the words of Sam Harris, Craig seems oblivious to the fact that saints, yogis, charlatans, and schizophrenics by the thousands claim to be God at this very moment, and it has always been thus

[thruthem]

Gustavo is back, baby!

[gusb232]

:) thanks

Ive been wanting to post a few more Tv programs I have recorded. But Im Always afraid of DMCA's.