wow.. nice upload, that shows the true horror on the Eastern Front on both sides.. its tragic that our greatfathers and grand-greatfathers were sent in a conflict that was unwinnable yet from the beginning. And the Russians who fought a deadly struggle for survival from the enemy, hunger and cold. Theres only one word to describe this 4 year horror: gruesome.
@xbox360freak82 Nationalism....great. IF there's one lesson we should learn from this, it's that nationalism is bullshit and no country, no people, no person is better than anyone else. Sadly, people don't learn
Don't make fun of Finns. Their whole culture is based around "evil Soviets attacked us" even though they know perfectly J. V. Stalin liberated areas of Soviet Union occupied by Finland during the aggression of pretty much the entire world against the revolutionary Soviet Republic from 1918-1921. It's still a mystery as to why J. V. Stalin didn't occupy Finland in 1944. Maybe because he first met great Comrade Lenin in Finland and had a Finnish bias as a result. He should have occupied Finland!
@reyter2007 nobody seems to know that Finland has been raped over and over again by russians during last thousand years and in WW2 it was the first time we had the opportunity to fight back as free people. It was stupid move to support hitler... but small country cannot always choose its own destiny
Well look, I support the USSR, not the Russian Empire. It's occupation of Finland was criminal. I do however know the fact that Finnish language and culture was almost extinct when Sweden lost a war to Russia and Russia came to occupy Finland as a result. I know the Russian Empire funded a large-scale program to revive Finnish language and culture in Finland. Probably as a result of not wanting Sweden controlling those lands not out of love for Finland but that's beside the point.
@Svyatogor51 Nah, you're the one who doesnt get the big picture...
What makes my fact fiction? The fact that I live in a pretty small country which has been voted one to be the best country in the world, and with one of the lowest corruption rates? And then lets look at you:
A guy who lives in the worlds biggest country, which has very poor quality of life, one of the most corrupted countries, and which is known for its ''Sh*tness''.
@kaahaajaFIN Where did U take these votes???? In Africa???? so I belive)))) Level of edication???? Interesting. So where is your cars, planes, jets, space and nuclear technologies??? I dont say about military technologies. all U can do is vodka and shite mob.phones. Am i wrong???
@Svyatogor51 Just take a look at Newsweeks website. Yeah our education is BEST IN THE WORLD.
Our cars are parked in yards of our manors. Planes are at Helsinki-Vantaa airport for an example. Jets are there too. Nuclear technology? Where'd we need bombs? To kill hundreds of thousands civilians, and turn cities into nuclear wasteland? No thanks. Oh military technology? Patria for an example. Nokia is fine, considering its second or leading mobile phone manufacturer. Everything useful is with us.
@Svyatogor51 And how can you say im wrong about your teachers? You're a perfect example of brainwashed, ignorant and stupid russian. How can you deny that, after saying all those ridiculous things?
We Finns are civilized and well educated. And then look at you Russkies? What you are? Warmongering bastards. Heres a part of conversation with Russian in youtube at a war video:
''we russia big boom we nuccelear weppon kill u all. u counrty sucky bicus u no nucceler weppon!''.
@kaahaajaFIN haha Ive heard a lot of funny stories about "civilized and well educated" guys from your country lying in the parks of St.Petersburg complitely drunk and with wet pants.
Your pathetic nationalizm, language and disrespect to other contries shows your nice education and your level.
@Svyatogor51 Theres idiots in every country, especially in yours. Yeah my language shows that im alot more educated than you are, and ever will be. ''disrespect to other contries bla bla bla'',
What countries? Yeah I got no respect for Russia, but other countries I respect.
And please, learn to speak english. Your text is terrible to read...
@kaahaajaFIN As I said U r stupid brainwashed pathetic f@@k. Your country exists only because Russian Empire allowed u to exist. Russian Tzar saved your autonomy, and now I see that he was wrong. U dont deserve it. Im not surprised that u dont like my country, couse u spent a lot of time lying under it. All u can do is accept it or take a shit in your pants because of anger.
Nobody like stronger ones. Especially guys from small countries, with funny language and family names.
@Svyatogor51 No. My country exists because it obviously has better men than yours has. 400 000 Finns versus 1,5 million russkies. Who won? Finland. Why? Because russkie sub-humans had no chance against normal people... Frozen to death. So sad. Why did you even start to mess with Finland. But hey! Look at the positive side of this: USSR captured just enough land to bury their deads :)
And haha, pot meet kettle, listen at your own language, its ridiculous.
You see, our country was defending in most of conflicts. In times we were attacking - every country must enlarge it's territory or grab some resources from neighbour. We can see this now by watching the US army and their actions in Livia, Georgia, Iraq. "your countrys evil deeds" I see you are the greates politician here to say something like this? lol
@Svyatogor51 I've understood, that you arent capable of giving me intellectual discussion. At the end, your '' ima russkki ima shoot nucceler bommb weppon'' attitude came along, and ruined the possibility to intellectual discussion. Welcome to my ignore list. Im gonna block you now. Retards like you, start to insult their opponent when they see that they are losing. Keep on justifying your countrys evil deeds, and ignoring the truth. Maybe, someday, you will get prize, The most fictional writer.
@Svyatogor51 I would trust the guy from smaller country, which has better quality of life, better education, less corruption and defensive war history.
Russia is known for it propaganda. I've heard that in your schools teachers still teach that Finland attacked Russia and started the winter war. Russia sucks big time. Military isnt important, the quality of life, and education is...
Guess again cocksucker Nazi. You conveniently forgot to mention the allied axis armies like Hungary, Italy, Roumania, Bulgaria , Finland and Czechoslovakia which were wiped out totalling 15 million you dumb fuck.
@VisionarysDomain Well tell me where you find the "fact" that Axis countries lost 15 million soldiers. Fucking reatrded, you cant be that stupid. And btw czechoslovakia was annexed by Germany in 38 so it wasnt axis country.
@puju1234 btw i am bulgarian and in the 2nd world war no bulgarian has put up a gun against a russian soldier because they have liberated us from the ottoman empire
@stunter200 Bulgarian forces played role of police. Bulgarian soldiers were fighting against greek and yugsolavian rebel forces so Germany could get more soldiers in easternfront. Finland,Romania and Hungary were most important allies of Germany.
@stunter200 You think Soviet Union and Stalin didnt kill millions of people? You dont even know what kind of hell Soviet Union gave to Ukrainian,Estonian,Latvian and Polish people. Stalin have killed 20 million people, Stalin killed his own generals. Soviet Union also had fanatic generals.
Also Im pretty sure that 80% of Bulgarian people likes more Germany than Russia.
@puju1234 yeah or 99 procent like the soviet union and you western smart asses that your rulers tell you lies stalin never killed millions how could he have the resources to kill 30 million people
@stunter200 Heh, are you stupid? I can also say that your eastern smartass leaders tell you lies, Hitler never killed millions how could he have the resources to kill millions of people
@puju1234 ok believe your uncle sam xD because the communism is the step for humanity and your democratic leaders fight for power on the world and oil
@stunter200 You dont obviously know anything about communism. Stalin kept all money for himself and didnt give anything to his people. And after WW2 they made East-Germany and West-Germany. I wonder why nobody didnt want to live under Soviet Union command and try to hopp into West Germany. Also Estonia,Ukraina and Latvia suffered because of Soviet Union. People didnt get food and there wasnt jobs.
In communism normal people dont own anything. You have to share everything with other people.
@puju1234 you dont know anything that is my opinion if you dont know the FUCKING western world is the main victor in their opinion in world war 2 and they make up the story of world war 2 and communism so you are the one that doesnt know anything
@puju1234 And what exactly do you know about communism? Did you actually live under communism?
First of all, there were no communism in former USSR - it was socialism. Germany was divided with participation of Western allies before the War ended. Where exactly did you get this nonsense about people being hungry in Latvia, Estonia etc..? There were no such thing as unemployment in former USSR and people did own property etc.. You shouldn't posting about things you don't have any idea.
@zrvpvo8789 Im finnish and half of my relatives lived in Estonia when it was under Soviet commance. I have seen and heard the shit what Soviet Union has done. Soviet Union didnt help anyway the puppet states like Estonia and Latvia and there was lots of unemployment, there wasnt any food or other material from west because Soviet Union didnt allow it. Tell me why Eastern european countries isnt so developed than western countries?
@puju1234 I'm Ukrainian who grew up for a while in Riga. All my wife's family from Riga as well. So tell your relatives to stop filling your head with deluded crap - there were no such thing as unemployment or no food. 20 years since Soviets gone,yet there is not much progress in E. Europe even with all that investment from the West. It wasn't as developed as Western before the communists, unless you can prove that anyone knew Romanian etc.. made cars as well as they did Benz prior to WWII.
@zrvpvo8789 I dont understand what your trying to say here. Your speaking something about prosgress in Europe. Well lets speak about tourism, does Ukraine and Russia have lots of Tourism? No. Why? You can tell me.
Only thing what I know about Romanians is that we have lots of them in here Finland. Romania was fucked up by Soviet Union and then many Romanians moved to western europe for better life. Romania is also a example what does communism do to country and its people.
@puju1234 Really no tourism? Really? Why don't you travel to S.Ukraine as see if there is 'no tourism' in summer. Try Moscow as well. I doubt you can afford it though. Average Romanian is a poorly educated peasant.. It's their stupidity that fucked them up - not Soviets. Germans considered them as low grade and number for persecuted as a low life thief.
@puju1234 What lies are you babbling about? As much as people talk about Stalin crimes - nobody yet said that Soviets gassed and burned people at rate of 4000 a day in single camp. Nobody accuse Stalin of genocide or attempt of taking foreign resources and land.
@puju1234 Yes Stalin killed his own generals. But where did you genius get the number of 20 million people killed by Stalin? Do you realize that it would be every 8-th Soviet citizen? Actually, Bulgarians are closer to Russians then Germans. Orthodox Church rings the bell?
I'm Ukrainian and truly believe that you just another brainwashed teenage idiot.
@zrvpvo8789 For example Katyn massacre where 30 000 polish officers were murdered by Soviet Union. Check from Wikipedia NKVD prisoner massacres. It seems like they murdered lots of Ukrainians, for example there was found massgrave where was 200 000 corpses and they were killed by NKVD. After this information Im not suprised that Ukrainian people are insulting Russians in youtube.
Why Eastern-Germans wanted to move into Western-Germany? Why Estonians hate Russia? Why polish people hate Russia?
@puju1234 I bet living in Ukraine almost half of my life - I would of known of 200000 Ukrainians murdered don't you think? I don't. As I said earlier - your running your mouth on subject you don't have clue. What you call 'Ukrainians' are chauvinistic nazi lapdogs from Western Ukraine. Please don't confuse every Ukrainian with them. They lot less welcome in the South and East then any Russian. Better life in the Western Germany wasn't the only reason - people had relatives you know..
@zrvpvo8789 I count Kazakstan and Ukraine as puppet states of Russia and I pray for you that someday Ukraine and Kazakstan will be free from Russias power. Poland has fought itself out of that shithole and now Poland is modern and high developed country like other western countries. They got good education and other stuff which Ukraine and Kazakstan doesnt have because of Russia.
@puju1234 Why don't you travel away from Warsaw - you see how 'modern' Poland is... How come majority of finninsh military equipment is still Soviet - too dumb to design your own? What Russian powers over Ukraine ?
You have your head showeved so far up your ass that you see a whole different world from there. Where do you get all this crap you posting? Why don't you brainless fuckurd get in touch with reality instead of running your punk mouth online. And grow the fuck up imbecile.
@zrvpvo8789 Finland doesnt use anymore t-55 and t-72. Finland uses Leopard 2A4 tanks. Also Finland doesnt use BMP-1 anymore. Finland Defenceforces are trying to clean up itself from Russian trash. Altough I have to say that PK machinegun and ZU-23-2 anti-aircraft cannon are good weapons.
@puju1234 RK-62 is deadly because of Soviet 7.62 x39 cartridge design. It's simple and easy to clean thanks to Michail Kalashnikov. All you finns did improve the accuracy of 50 years old design.
@puju1234 that is realy retarded Russia develops at a very high speed. Its all the fault of communism but Rusia is thousand of times bigger then Estonia or Poland so it takes longer.
@puju1234 Not every Pole hate Russia and most wouldn't if not brainwashing.
3000 Poles died from Germans daily during the War - how is it compared to NKVD murders? Franky, according to British mass grave at Katyn contained 4000 - not 30000. You should read or watch some decent Historical sources - Wiki hardly one of them.
@zrvpvo8789 Hehhe, nice. There is historical documents proving that holocaust never took place. Excuse me but your the Ukrainian here, your country has been slaved by Soviet Union and is slaved by Russia even today. I wouldnt be suprised what kind of propaganda Russia is feeding to you about how bad West and Germans are and how good communism and USSR was.
If here is someone who is brainwashed its you. Have you ever tasted chochlate or have you ever seen hollywood movies?
@puju1234 Holocaust never took place, huh? Are your stoned? What propaganda are you whining about you stupid finnish moron? How do you know Ukraine was enslaved - by sticking your head up your ass?
Has it ever strike you that Ukrainians and Russians don't like Estonians and Finns because you slow thinkers?
@stunter200 Don't mind this idiot. It's common with finns to hate Russia. Can you blame them? They were beaten and lost they territory to Stalin. For 3 years they and their German masters were trying to conquer single city of Leningrad - never made it. First major Soviet attack and they quit German side. They were never under Soviets, yet most of their military equipment - Soviet. Education and common sense obviously not their bright side. So all they have left - drool over keyboard.
@kaahaajaFIN HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAH U r making me laugh. Stupid brainwashed f@@k. You lost that war, you lost your territory and you you lost your unbreakable Mannerheim line. Continue drinking vodka. the only thing u r good for ))
@Svyatogor51 Heh, you're the brainwashed one. You're from Russia, one of the worlds most corrupted and sh*t places. Vodka is from Russia and isn't even popular here...the average dieing age in Russia is 50 because, you guys drink yourselves to deaths and the age in Finland is about 70+, so you continue drinking Vodka ;)
And Finland didn't lose the war, we gained defensive victory. You only gained 10% of Finlands territory, just enough land to bury your 500 000+ dead ruskies ;)
@kaahaajaFIN Im not going to abuse your country, couse a lot of ethnic fins live and work in my country. especially in my town.
Defensive victory???? U lost your territory but it was victory!? Nice victory.))) keep winning like that.
500000+??? Where did u get this information??? SU lost a lot of soldiers. Its true. But if you attack well protected place like Manergeim line there is no chance to avoid big casualties.
@Svyatogor51 It was a defensive victory. USSR:s goal was to invade whole Finland but they got only 10%. 180 million people country vs 3,6 million country, which wasn't even prepared for war. Our soldiers equipments was ''Type Cajander'' because Cajander refused to put money in defence. So our soldiers were also very badly equipped. I got that information from Wikipedia (yeah I know, not the most reliable source, but it gives a rough figure about the losses).
@kaahaajaFIN And this war was only about territory near Leningrad, couse Germans could easily capture "the second capital" through it. nobody was going to take a whole country. What for??? We always had enough of ice and snow))))))))))))
@Svyatogor51 And USSR:s goal was not to just invade small area near Leningrad. In the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact was a secret document, where they had agreed, that USSR have free hands to conquest whole Finland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, half-Poland and other friendly neutral countries.
This has been admitted by the Russian government.
Oh and btw, if you've allways had enough ice and snow, why did you invade Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania. Your text has so many flaws and leaks.
@kaahaajaFIN Look at the map, my smart "friend", moving army to the north was stupid at that time.The war was too close. But they had ideas to change goverment. They refuse to do so, because of clever politic of Mannergeim. He signed an agreement in 1944, opened your ports and airports for SU. Otherwise nothing could stop Stalin in 1945.
@kaahaajaFIN And about "friendly" countries: it was clear that Fin and Japan will be German allies in case of war, so Stalin kicked Japaniese ass in 1939 on Khalkin Gol and they didnt open the 2 front in WW2, and your ass - and you didnt take an active part at that war and refused to help Germans. Learn history.
@Svyatogor51 It wasn't stupid to move the red army to north. USSR mongered and loathed war, so why would've they wanted to be ''away from the war''? And what has the peace treaty has to do with anything we've just discussed? We discussed about the reasons of the soviet aggression. Finland would've not been Germans ally in case of war. See what we did when the USSR attacked? We hold our ground, and if German would've attacked, we of course would've done the exact same as with we dealt with USSR.
@DebelKrmak - That was only an appetizer; what Stalin wanted was control of the Ploesti oil fields in order to be able to choke off German oil supplies prior to attacking Germany. Read "The Chief Culprit: Stalin's Grand Design to Start World War II" by Viktor Suvorov for Stalin's real goals.
VERY unlikely but it would have been much harder for the Germans- perhaps they could allready have been stopped at the Dnjepr and the Ussr would perhaps have been able to hold ¨that front untill some kind of agreement between G/R.
The Ussr build only 150 000 trucks in the war-it got 450 000
U know how many tanks the Ussr could broduced insted of trucks? Some 30 000.
And if the Red army DIDNT need boots- why did they DEMAND 13 MILLION pairs?
What would the Red soldier eaten? in what marched? with what drived? with what shot? Without the western supplies the Red army could have been only HALF as big as in reality
Considered theirs losses 41-45 that would ment defeat, or at best stalemate
@Denorius "..Richard Overy, Norman Davies and John Keegan ..
None of those morons saw war in person, Americans love to brag how 'critical' was Lend Lease, in reality LL to USSR - 11.3 bn.(vs 31.4 to Britain), yet 87.9% of German losses - East. front. US supplied 14% of Soviet warplanes, 11% of antiaircraft ammo and 2/3 of trucks. % of food - negligible. Was LL important? Somewhat. Did 14% of warplanes and trucks really stopped biggest invasion army in history? Only according to US ' professors'
@ihave1 Why Americans and Russians argue about WW2 is beyond me. Germany lost the war the second they invaded Russia... it just took time for the inevitable to happen.
The Germans DIDNT try to conquere Leningrad because Hitler said that he wouldnt waste troops, at Moscow the Germans were stopped alone by the winter, and at stalingrad and the caucasus they were stoppeb because of the allied help.
Africa did keep Rommel with 500 tanks
50 000 germans and 500 planes away from the caucasus by the middle of 1942- the air war did keep some 500 fighters away from russia by mid 42.
Had the wehrmacht had those additional troops then Stalingrad wouldnt have occured
Even if Hitler had control of Moscow ,he had to deploy millions of soldiers to control the huge Russian lands and to sufocate russian resistants ! Invading USSR was an unrealized dream ! If Hitler deployed this eastern army for England and USA ,he would won the war !
Let's not forget the problems that would have been encountered given the long supply routes that would have been constantly interrupted by partisans. Wear and tear on machinery, supplying the long supply lines also. Air attacks from the Soviet Air Force that would have merely retreated deeper and deeper in to all the vastness. It was easier to conquer territory than occupy it given the vastness of the Russian steppes. Capture of Moscow, a propaganda victory, in the end, disaster for the Reich.
had 45 000 less tanks because-insted of using US truckes they would have to poduce them by themselves.
Not to mention that by the end of 1942 germany conquered 2 mio square kilometers of soviet territory with over 90 Million people-nearly HALF of the population of the ussr.
Without western help=no stalingrad and no Kursk-without that=germany victory.
And britain still was a great power in my opinion
They did the bomber offensive mostly by themselves and still raised 60 disvions 2/3 of the us
yeah but 1. it did still help- more than 100 sherman tan´ks fought at stalingrad as an example.
And as i said2. if the ussr had to produce the 450 000 trucks by itself it would have build thousands of tanks+planes+guns less.
and without western allies the 2500 tanks and planes used in africa would have been in the east+ the 20 divisions that were in italy+ 20 out of the 60 vivision in france + thousands of fighters which fought the bomber offensive so...
And why do you think the USSR wouldn't have produced all this? It would have won the war not in 1945, but, let's say, in 1948.
You should understand that the USSR fought according to the world war theater, knowing there are allies. If they hadn't existed, the USSR would have had a different strategy, for example, not to liberate Belorussia or defend Leningrad, but to invade Romania through the Ukraine and conquer the oil fields of Ploesti, which would mean a stop for the German war machine.
@Denorius u don't seem to understand that those additional few hundred thousand German soldiers wouldn't have changed much.
Hitler deployed 90% of his armed forced against the USSR in 1941 and the same amount almost until the end of 1942 when the first bombings by the allies started.
Hitler accumulated all his forces at Kursk in summer 1943 but failed to take the town.
And the whole German Central Army Group was annihilated by Soviets with 1 MONTH in June 1944.
The Wehrmacht conquered 2 Million square Miles with some 90 Million people on it in 1941/1942 and that ALLTHOUGh the allies did help the USSR from the start.
If there would be no allies helping the Ussr then 1. ALL the THOUSANDS planes fighting the bomber offensive would have been in the east.
2. Germany wouldnt have to produce u boats- and could have produced much more tanks+aircraft.
3. Stalingrad+Kursk were only possible because of the huge ammount of Truck/material the allies delivered
@Denorius The Wehrmacht conquered a territory with 43% of the Soviet population and it's less than 90 Mio. A great number of this population became partisans who killed about 10% of the Wehrmacht.
The help of the USA in 1941 was ridiculous. The supplies became large-scale first after the Soviet victory at Stalingrad.
The victory at Smolensk in summer 1941, at Moscow, the Demyansk pocket, Germans stopped at Leningrad etc. - all that was reached to 90% with Soviet forces.
I'm not talking about Kursk, I was talking about the victory at Stalingrad, Leningrad (where Soviets stopped Germans), Caucasus (the same) and especially Moscow in Dec. 1941.
Before January 1st, 1942, the number of American supplies was ridiculous and had no influence on Soviet victory at Moscow and Leningrad.
You can forget about the US tanks because Soviets only mocked at them and never deployed them in combat.
The US till the end of 1942 had little influence on Soviet success.
Not to mention that the air war+africa did+sea war did hold away THOUSANDS of Tanks guns and Planes from russia.
Simply face it alone NO power not the USA not the USSR and not Britain could have defeated germany.
All serious historians do agree. If only ONE of the Great three would have been missing than Germany might perhaps not won, but it would certainly have survived.
U wrote it yourself germany conquered territory with more than 43% of soviet population!! Absolutely breathtaking!
Thus,percentually seen, the supply wasn't important and if you take a look at thousands of Soviet photos of 1941,1942 and even 1943 you'll see Red Army soldiers ALL wearing old puttees and WWI shoes.
Typical Soviet boots start to reappear first in 1944,sometimes in 1943.
I saw only a few Soviet servicemen wearing American shoes.
The same is with US tanks which were all stored and almost never deployed by the USSR.
The USSR would have finally won the war by reaching Romania - in any case.
even Russian historians have to agree that without land lease and allied help they would have lost or at best barely contained Germany- but its the same with the USA+Britain without Russia they would had a 0 chance of winning.
As to the Russian historians, of which I've read a lot, there exists no common opinion - some say this, some say that.
All agree that the victory would have been impossible only some say it would have been impossible to be reached in 1945 and the war would've been much longer, others say the victory wouldn't be possible at all, but the latter are a minority.
Anyway, Russian historians are far more objective compared to many Western, especially US historians.
@Denorius It's not because of the Allies that Germans couldn't take the Fortress of Brest during 1,5 month and the Pavlov's House in Stalingrad during 56 days.
Soviets deployed only one tank brigade in Stalingrad. And the sky was under German control. The Stalingrad Battle was a battle of simple Soviet soldiers with knives and rifles.
And the supply by the Allies didn't play any role in Germany's failure to take a house in Stalingrad during 56 days.
What do you think might have happened had Hitler launched Barbarossa 1 May as originally planned and not waited until 22 June? It's almost obvious they would have reached Moscow and taken it but then what? Naturally one can only speculate and the what if will never be known. If any one thing from the Allies hurt Germany the most, the US bombing, according to Goering and most Luftwaffe Generals. The think that hurt Germany the most from the Russians, the T-34. You're pretty Damned intelligent.
@8301968 One must be pretty damn intelligent to understand your English.
Georing was a drug addict who overslept the whole war. But according to the Goebbel's diaries the bombings by the US and the UK failed to achieve their objectives because the military productivity in Germany had been increasing until 1945 when Soviets entered the Reich.
But you're write, no-one has killed as many German civilians as Americans and Englishmen.
But 90% of the German military was destroyed by Russians.
Well I consider that a compliment, Thank You as I see you as being quite intelligent. If English is your second language, which it seems to be, you write it much better than a large majority of persons here in the U.S. You're someone I'd enjoy corresponding with regularly. We probably wouldn't agree on everything but there isn't anything wrong with a healthy exchange of ideas as long as it's done with respect and courtesy .Sadly it's something so many who write on these forums don't do.
It is, Yes. I can speak a second language, Spanish but not all that well. I venture to say you are probably fluent in at least three languages, possibly even more. I have heard it is not unusual for someone in Europe to speak more than one language because so many countries are all grouped together. Would you say this is true?
@8301968 No, it's not easy to learn another language. Or maybe it is, but it doesn't depend on your neighbours at all. I know people who left their countries, have spent 10 years somewhere else and still speak the local language in a very simple, almost primitive way, when others never live their countries and just read books but finally possess much better skills in a certain laguage.
Goering's drug habit(morphine) was a result of painful wounds suffered in the 1923 putsch. When he was on trial and off the drugs and slimmed down he was more than a match for the Nuremburg prosecution. Not sure I'd trust Goebbles diaries, propaganda was his specialty. The most intelligent of the Nazi hierarchy by far was Reinhard Heydrich. He supposedly was indirectly responsible for supplying Stalin the false info leading to Tuchachevsky's(sp?) arrest and execution.
@8301968 Who cares what was the reason for Georgin's drug addiction? He took strong drugs, he was a shooter and simultaneously responsible for all the whole Germany's military air fleet. What could be more idiotic than to have a drug addict on such an important position?!
Goergin was supplied with drugs in Nuremberg and later bought himself a poison
Goebbel's diaries were his PRIVATE diaries he wrote for HIMSELF ONLY and they were found ACCIDENTALLY. That's why they comprise truth to 100%.
To this day it's never been established how Goering got the cyanide capsule, but has narrowed down to about three different possibilities. Thanks for the ffact about Goebbles Diaries, I wasn't aware of that. About Tukahcehshevsky(sp) I have always read that he was popular with the Russian Officer's Staff. When it comes down to Russian WW 2 History I WILL NOT argue with you. You have done your homework and I have learned a lot from you. As I said previously, you're very intelligent and informed.
Tuhachevsky was popular among Bolsheviks during the Russian Civil War, that means he was popular among the most disgusting people on earth - sadists, bandits, war criminals and the like.
He wasn't popular among Russians whom he slaughtered with pleasure.
Under Khrushov it was decided to fight the Stalin's cult of personality.
Tuhachevsky was chosen as a "holy victim" for this anti-Stalinist propaganda.
I am very curious as to your opinion of Stalin. I frankly think he was just as evil as Hitler, mainly because he is said to have killed millions of his own people. A statement he is said to have made "It is pointless to expiate on the demise of the Kulaks, one does not lament on the loss of the hair of one who has been beheaded". I have seen that some in Russia still revere him. Are there many persons who feel that way? You certainly are an interesting individual.
The big difference which existed between Hitler and Stalin was that Hitler sincerely loved Germany, love his nation and was eager to rob and kill everyone for the benefit of Germany.
Stalin hated Russia and Russians. He was NOT Russian himself, as well as 3/4 of the Communist Party.
In fact, Stalin destroyed Russia and created a state (together with Lenin and Trotsky) which they called "USSR". Russians were renamed into Soviets, their culture was annihilated.
He was NOT "Stalin", it's a nickname he invented for himself.
His REAL NAME was Jugashvili.
He had a lot of political pen-names. The most famous pen-name he took before becoming "Stalin" was "Koba". It means something in Georgian but I don't know what.
"Stalin" means "made of steel" in Russian. It's an artificial family-name which does NOT exist in Russian.
Not only did NOT Jugashvili have a Russian appearance, he even spoke Russian with a strong Georgian accent
Hitler loved his people? Really? Why when the Red Army came to German cities they game *** hours or days for the women and children to clear out but the fascists wouldn't let them?
Why Hitler said in the last days "The German people have failed me and so they should not be allowed to live."?
Hitler, like all capitalists hated the German works, 95% of the population. It was the opposite for Soviets. Putin is for sure closer to Hitler than Stalin let alone Great Comrade Lenin.
Hitler was first and foremost a capitalist and therefore was only interested in what the people could give him, not what he could do for the people. He hated the German working class, 95% of the population.
@reyter2007 Hitler was first and foremost a SOCIALIST, that's why his policital party was called "German Workers' National-Socialist Party". Neither his party, nor his friends were capitalists. His childhood, teenage, youth - all these years were spent in poverty, among soldiers, workers, students, artists without money. What was there capitalistic in his worldview or words? Or deeds?
Hitler loved Germany and thought he was saving it. He was wrong but that doesn't mean he didn't love his nation.
Well what kind of Socialist are you talking about? A bourgeois socialist, a reactionary socialist or a communist/socialist? No need to tell me, he was a reactionary socialist and leader of the most right-wing capitalist state to have existed thus far.
@Heightofhate His ostensible "love" for his nation caused him to string up the antiwar White Rose college youth on meat hooks. He decreed for Germany's total destruction as the fronts collapsed in 1945- remember the Gauleiter ordenung????
@IanHunedoara8 Funny how so many people express their opinion on how Hitler loved Germany judging by the last 2 years of his reign.
But there were 10 of them.There were the 30s.And Hitler had shown in those years,prior to all the later defeats,how much he loved Germany and how much obsessed with anything German he was - always at the cost of hate toward other nations.
But he was megalomaniac and that brought himself and his country to a fall.
With one word, compared to bolsheviks he was soft.
@Heightofhate 1934- night of the long knives- slaughter of Roehm and SA members. Germans being tortured and executed in Buchenwald, Bergen Belsen. Love for Germans?
The percentage of Germans killed by Germans in the Third Reich, compared to the whole German population, IS RIDICULOUS.
You can't compare it with Bolsheviks' crimes against the population of the USSR.
Yes, there were a few dozens of thousands of people who didn't accept Hitler's policy. Those few - compared to the whole of the German population - were killed by the dominating majority, who praised Hitler and saw in him the Germany's chance for a new rise and new victories.
@Heightofhate A lot of germans who were deemed "useless eaters" were also killed - disabled and mentally ill people in Germany. Also, do you count German jewish people?
@Gwyka There were about 200,000 of "useless eaters". It's LESS THAN ONE PERCENT of the German population!
Jews were killed in Germany but they weren't really numerous there either, while numbers of Jews killed by Germans in Poland and the USSR (mostly in Belorussia and the Ukraine) are MILLIONS AND MILLIONS!
Compared to what Bolsheviks did to Russians Nazis were as nice to the German nation as a loving mother.
But both Stalin and Hitler were equally cruel to Russians and nice to Germans.
Bolsheviks were killing their own people, millions of them, they destroyed thousands of cultural monuments, erased the Russian history before them and led the USSR to bankruptcy and collapse - without any external assistence.
Just monsters.
You must be an idiot if you like them. Or maybe a masohist?
Without any evidences, of course. But you can try.
Unfortunately I know very well, that whatever I'll answer, you'll ignore, cause nothing can make opposite side change his mind in such flames.
I can only hope that any person with independent mind can develop his knowledge with alternative points of view. For a start, take USSR demograthic stats, read Clash of the Titans (Glantz writes quite rationally about The Great Purge) etc, etc.
@reyter2007 What does "game *** hours or days" mean? What game?
And "fascists" were NOT Hitler, but his subordinates. As all other armed forces. And the fact they obeyed Hitler shows they loved him and stayed devoted to Hitler till the very end.
Anyway, you can easily track the rapid increase of the Germany's military machine's productivity. You don't need Goebbel's diaries for it.
Tuhachevsky was a complete idiot and unexampled sadist who slaughtered half of Russia during the Russian Civil War using even poison gas against whole villages of the Tambov region when Russian famers conducted their famous Alekseyevshna - an uprise against Bolshvism and the Soviet government.
I'm not an expert of the Civil War but I thought Tukhachevsky was a competent military leader. His murder (and the abandoning of his warfare concepts) during the 1937/38 purges was one of the main reasons of the terrible beginning of the war...
Tuhachevsky was a totally incompetent military leader whose armies were destroyed at Vistula by Poles having outdated rifles almost without ammo and being totally outnumbered by Tuhachevky's troops.
Tuhachevsky was only good for burning Russian villages during Alekseyevshina, taking hostages and gunning down women and children.
The Red Army totally degraded under his command and his arrest was very logic and had good grounds for it.
The disaster of 1941 happened due to other reasons.
And Poles would tell you that their positions were disperate and the only thing that helped them to win was their determination not to let the red devil into their country.
Moreover, Tuhachevky's troops didn't only slow down, they were defeated, they RAN AWAY.
Troops of a talented commander don't behave this way.
"It was during the Polish war that Tukhachevsky first came into conflict with Stalin, when the latter disobeyed orders by attacking Lvov instead of Warsaw. Each blamed the other for the Soviet failure to capture Warsaw, which brought Soviet defeat in the war. The animosity between him and Stalin continued into the 1930s."
And Stalin was a very vindicative person who never forgave. It was NOT Heydrich who disinformd Stalin. It was Salin's own initiative.
@Heightofhate, by the time the Red Army reached Romania or even the US army reaching the beachs of Normandie, the axis armies where already half defeated. Losses already taken could not be compensated for in time, especially among the better armies.
Anglo-American armies sat around the UK screwing each other until the fascist armies were decimated and the final Soviet victory was only a matter of time.
They invaded to prevent the Soviets liberating all of Europe, not to stop their political twins, the Nazis.
From june 1941-December 1941- the red army lost 3,5 Million captured and 2,5 million dead- thats 6 Million- in the same time the germans lost 300 000-dead and captured thats 1:20!!!
All in all Germany+allies lost some 6 Million dead + captured on the eastern front- the red army lost 12 Million soldiers+ 6 Mio were captured- thats a kill/capture ratio of 1:3 for the axis
See soviet POW's: the invaders counted every able-bodied man as POW an hence the inflated numbers. Many of your dead died in captivity/wre killed and didn't fell on the battlefield.
1941 was terrible for the Red Army but nowhere near your phantasies.
Look it up under the Bible of WW2 numbers- John Ellis world war 2 databook- there stands 12 Mio dead read army soldiers in COMBAT+ 6 Mio POW.
How many of hem died is another matter.
And Look in Richard Overys Russias War- he writes it there- In the time of Barbarossa for every german soldiers that was killed or captured- 20 Soviet soldiers did get the same fate.
Those western WWII literature is lopsided in favor of the germans cause the authors used the memoires of the german military leaders. Remember it was the Cold-War-era.
Your numbers are nowhere near the truth
(12 mio KIA + 6 mio POW) beause there must be a higher number of wounded (1 KIA = minimum 2 wounded, 3 is more realistic). The Soviet Army had an initial strength of 4.8 mio and drafted 29.5 mio during the war.
Richard overy if absolutely anti german he used only russian sources-in his book why the allies lost he seriously tried to convince people that the allies did win because they fought better not because they had more man+material.
The 12 mio dead+6 mio captured number- is found in World war 2 databook+Russias War.
U do some math if the germans did kill or caoture some 6 Million in 6 months (barbarossa) then 12 mio in the next 40 months of the war are absolutely realistic.
The winning side cannot have such casualties ratio, i mean 1/3. How could you explain that in the end of war germans conscripted 12 year old boys and 65 year oldmen? The real ratio is 1 german for 1,3-1,4 soviets.
I have my numbers from John ellis world war 2 databook.
Here is the ration of lost men+material of germany vs USA/USSR/GB vice versa:
Tanks: 45 000 to 135 000 -1:3
Aircraft: 80 000 to 160 000 -1:2
Ships/Uboats: ca 1000 to ca 5200: 1:5
Soldiers: 10 Mio to 20 Mio- 1:2
Allthough most captured came in 1944/45 when the allies had an advantage of 1:4 or more- if the battles would have always been 1 on 1 in men+material allied losses would be much higher...
The Red Army lost about 9 Mio in combat and others were POWs. That about 11,5 dead all in all. Maybe even 12 Mio.
But I did NOT count the German dead POWs, as well as the dead POWs of the Germany's allies.
Thus it's almost about 2:1 (I previously wrote 1, 75 : 1)
Anyway, no matter what we, you and me, write here, the MYTH which exists in Germany EVEN TODAY, as well as everywhere in the West, is that the Soviets lost something like 10-15:1.
Respect from Serbia to Russian brothers.kill all Nazis(modern nazi-s)who trying to kill Slavs.but they will lose.
rasosteva 2 months ago
wow.. nice upload, that shows the true horror on the Eastern Front on both sides.. its tragic that our greatfathers and grand-greatfathers were sent in a conflict that was unwinnable yet from the beginning. And the Russians who fought a deadly struggle for survival from the enemy, hunger and cold. Theres only one word to describe this 4 year horror: gruesome.
Sp4wn82 6 months ago
ENTIRE GERMAN ARMY IS BABES!
tHISiSsPARTA585 7 months ago
Comment removed
tHISiSsPARTA585 7 months ago
Finland is best country in the world (ainaskii minusta)
xbox360freak82 7 months ago
@xbox360freak82 Näin on!
fiasko321 7 months ago
@xbox360freak82 Nationalism....great. IF there's one lesson we should learn from this, it's that nationalism is bullshit and no country, no people, no person is better than anyone else. Sadly, people don't learn
rubiconsedge 6 months ago
@rubiconsedge Is it possible to shut the fuck up for ten secons?
xbox360freak82 6 months ago
СЛАВА ГЕРОЯМ !
soldier7799 8 months ago 10
Don't make fun of Finns. Their whole culture is based around "evil Soviets attacked us" even though they know perfectly J. V. Stalin liberated areas of Soviet Union occupied by Finland during the aggression of pretty much the entire world against the revolutionary Soviet Republic from 1918-1921. It's still a mystery as to why J. V. Stalin didn't occupy Finland in 1944. Maybe because he first met great Comrade Lenin in Finland and had a Finnish bias as a result. He should have occupied Finland!
reyter2007 8 months ago 5
@reyter2007 nobody seems to know that Finland has been raped over and over again by russians during last thousand years and in WW2 it was the first time we had the opportunity to fight back as free people. It was stupid move to support hitler... but small country cannot always choose its own destiny
eucalyptu5 4 months ago
@eucalyptu5
Well look, I support the USSR, not the Russian Empire. It's occupation of Finland was criminal. I do however know the fact that Finnish language and culture was almost extinct when Sweden lost a war to Russia and Russia came to occupy Finland as a result. I know the Russian Empire funded a large-scale program to revive Finnish language and culture in Finland. Probably as a result of not wanting Sweden controlling those lands not out of love for Finland but that's beside the point.
reyter2007 4 months ago
@reyter2007 Я думаю в том мире который был 60 лет назад Финны были бесполезны как зонт зимой )
I think in a world that was 60 years ago, Finns were useless as an umbrella in winter)
drebko1 4 months ago
Why would've Finland had to take part in the Russo-Japanese war? That makes no sense at all...
And where we refused to help Germans? Dont make lame accusations without telling me what my country is accused for...
Pretty hard to answer to these accusations which you dont even inform me of.
kaahaajaFIN 10 months ago
@kaahaajaFIN If U dont understand situation at that time I cant help you. Read different books, what can I say.
Your point of view is a point of view of guy, who lives in a small country which almost have no voice in this world.
never had and will never have. Good luck)))))
Svyatogor51 10 months ago
@Svyatogor51 Nah, you're the one who doesnt get the big picture...
What makes my fact fiction? The fact that I live in a pretty small country which has been voted one to be the best country in the world, and with one of the lowest corruption rates? And then lets look at you:
A guy who lives in the worlds biggest country, which has very poor quality of life, one of the most corrupted countries, and which is known for its ''Sh*tness''.
kaahaajaFIN 10 months ago
@kaahaajaFIN Where did U take these votes???? In Africa???? so I belive)))) Level of edication???? Interesting. So where is your cars, planes, jets, space and nuclear technologies??? I dont say about military technologies. all U can do is vodka and shite mob.phones. Am i wrong???
Level of life??? Maybe. And Im happy for U)))
And U r wrong about teachers.
Svyatogor51 10 months ago
@Svyatogor51 Just take a look at Newsweeks website. Yeah our education is BEST IN THE WORLD.
Our cars are parked in yards of our manors. Planes are at Helsinki-Vantaa airport for an example. Jets are there too. Nuclear technology? Where'd we need bombs? To kill hundreds of thousands civilians, and turn cities into nuclear wasteland? No thanks. Oh military technology? Patria for an example. Nokia is fine, considering its second or leading mobile phone manufacturer. Everything useful is with us.
kaahaajaFIN 10 months ago
@Svyatogor51 And how can you say im wrong about your teachers? You're a perfect example of brainwashed, ignorant and stupid russian. How can you deny that, after saying all those ridiculous things?
We Finns are civilized and well educated. And then look at you Russkies? What you are? Warmongering bastards. Heres a part of conversation with Russian in youtube at a war video:
''we russia big boom we nuccelear weppon kill u all. u counrty sucky bicus u no nucceler weppon!''.
kaahaajaFIN 10 months ago
@kaahaajaFIN haha Ive heard a lot of funny stories about "civilized and well educated" guys from your country lying in the parks of St.Petersburg complitely drunk and with wet pants.
Your pathetic nationalizm, language and disrespect to other contries shows your nice education and your level.
Svyatogor51 10 months ago
@Svyatogor51 Theres idiots in every country, especially in yours. Yeah my language shows that im alot more educated than you are, and ever will be. ''disrespect to other contries bla bla bla'',
What countries? Yeah I got no respect for Russia, but other countries I respect.
And please, learn to speak english. Your text is terrible to read...
kaahaajaFIN 10 months ago
@kaahaajaFIN As I said U r stupid brainwashed pathetic f@@k. Your country exists only because Russian Empire allowed u to exist. Russian Tzar saved your autonomy, and now I see that he was wrong. U dont deserve it. Im not surprised that u dont like my country, couse u spent a lot of time lying under it. All u can do is accept it or take a shit in your pants because of anger.
Nobody like stronger ones. Especially guys from small countries, with funny language and family names.
Svyatogor51 10 months ago
@Svyatogor51 No. My country exists because it obviously has better men than yours has. 400 000 Finns versus 1,5 million russkies. Who won? Finland. Why? Because russkie sub-humans had no chance against normal people... Frozen to death. So sad. Why did you even start to mess with Finland. But hey! Look at the positive side of this: USSR captured just enough land to bury their deads :)
And haha, pot meet kettle, listen at your own language, its ridiculous.
kaahaajaFIN 10 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@kaahaajaFIN @kaahaajaFIN It is a usual thing on youtube this days. But I'll say this:
You see, our country was defending in most of conflicts. In times we were attacking - every country must enlarge it's territory or grab some resources from neighbour. We can see this now by watching the US army and their actions in Livia, Georgia, Iraq. "your countrys evil deeds" I see you are the greates politician here to say something like this? lol
RusReconstruct 10 months ago
@Svyatogor51 I've understood, that you arent capable of giving me intellectual discussion. At the end, your '' ima russkki ima shoot nucceler bommb weppon'' attitude came along, and ruined the possibility to intellectual discussion. Welcome to my ignore list. Im gonna block you now. Retards like you, start to insult their opponent when they see that they are losing. Keep on justifying your countrys evil deeds, and ignoring the truth. Maybe, someday, you will get prize, The most fictional writer.
kaahaajaFIN 10 months ago
@Svyatogor51 And by the way, learn to speak english you bastard mongrel russki...
kaahaajaFIN 10 months ago
@Svyatogor51 I would trust the guy from smaller country, which has better quality of life, better education, less corruption and defensive war history.
Russia is known for it propaganda. I've heard that in your schools teachers still teach that Finland attacked Russia and started the winter war. Russia sucks big time. Military isnt important, the quality of life, and education is...
kaahaajaFIN 10 months ago
Вечная память и слава предкам героям, за жизнь и свободу пожертвовав своей!
FreeYourMind911 1 year ago
Nazi graveyard? Guess again 4 million German soldiers dead, 12 million Soviet soldiers dead. So I would say that its graveyard of Soviet soldiers.
puju1234 1 year ago
@puju1234
so Auschwitz was a gas chamber of Jews?!
FreeYourMind911 1 year ago
@FreeYourMind911 Sorry I dont understand your point.
puju1234 1 year ago
@puju1234
Guess again cocksucker Nazi. You conveniently forgot to mention the allied axis armies like Hungary, Italy, Roumania, Bulgaria , Finland and Czechoslovakia which were wiped out totalling 15 million you dumb fuck.
VisionarysDomain 1 year ago
@VisionarysDomain Dont lie you fucker. Here is Germanys allies casualties.
Bulgaria: 22 000 dead
Romania: 300 000 dead
Finland: 60 000 dead
Italy: 100 000 dead
Hungary: 300 000 dead
Germany; 5,5 million dead Soviet Union: 14.5 million dead.
Do I need to tell anymore, and btw this numbers are in wikipedia. Just search "World War II casualties"
puju1234 1 year ago 2
@puju1234
Wikipedia the most useles resource of information on the internet. Quit wasting my time and use valid sources kiddo.
VisionarysDomain 1 year ago
@VisionarysDomain Well tell me where you find the "fact" that Axis countries lost 15 million soldiers. Fucking reatrded, you cant be that stupid. And btw czechoslovakia was annexed by Germany in 38 so it wasnt axis country.
puju1234 1 year ago
@puju1234
"Soviet Union: 14.5 million dead."
No, its over 25 Mil...
RazorUltimate 10 months ago
@puju1234 btw i am bulgarian and in the 2nd world war no bulgarian has put up a gun against a russian soldier because they have liberated us from the ottoman empire
stunter200 9 months ago
@stunter200 Do I care ? Bulgaria played very little role in ww2, Bulgaria only fought against Greece and Yugoslavian militia troops.
puju1234 9 months ago
@puju1234 you definetly dont understand abour history or they fought the greek army and yugoslav we kicked the surbs
stunter200 9 months ago
@stunter200 Bulgarian forces played role of police. Bulgarian soldiers were fighting against greek and yugsolavian rebel forces so Germany could get more soldiers in easternfront. Finland,Romania and Hungary were most important allies of Germany.
puju1234 9 months ago
@puju1234 but it was a smart thing no to go to war with the soviet union because not only they are our brothers but they destroyed the third reich
stunter200 9 months ago
@stunter200 I rispect third reich more than Soviet Union.
puju1234 9 months ago
@puju1234 i dont get why for killing millions for their stupid cause with their insane fanatic generals
stunter200 9 months ago
@stunter200 You think Soviet Union and Stalin didnt kill millions of people? You dont even know what kind of hell Soviet Union gave to Ukrainian,Estonian,Latvian and Polish people. Stalin have killed 20 million people, Stalin killed his own generals. Soviet Union also had fanatic generals.
Also Im pretty sure that 80% of Bulgarian people likes more Germany than Russia.
puju1234 9 months ago
@puju1234 yeah or 99 procent like the soviet union and you western smart asses that your rulers tell you lies stalin never killed millions how could he have the resources to kill 30 million people
stunter200 9 months ago
@stunter200 Heh, are you stupid? I can also say that your eastern smartass leaders tell you lies, Hitler never killed millions how could he have the resources to kill millions of people
puju1234 9 months ago
@puju1234 ok believe your uncle sam xD because the communism is the step for humanity and your democratic leaders fight for power on the world and oil
stunter200 9 months ago
@stunter200 You dont obviously know anything about communism. Stalin kept all money for himself and didnt give anything to his people. And after WW2 they made East-Germany and West-Germany. I wonder why nobody didnt want to live under Soviet Union command and try to hopp into West Germany. Also Estonia,Ukraina and Latvia suffered because of Soviet Union. People didnt get food and there wasnt jobs.
In communism normal people dont own anything. You have to share everything with other people.
puju1234 9 months ago
@puju1234 you dont know anything that is my opinion if you dont know the FUCKING western world is the main victor in their opinion in world war 2 and they make up the story of world war 2 and communism so you are the one that doesnt know anything
stunter200 9 months ago
@puju1234 And what exactly do you know about communism? Did you actually live under communism?
First of all, there were no communism in former USSR - it was socialism. Germany was divided with participation of Western allies before the War ended. Where exactly did you get this nonsense about people being hungry in Latvia, Estonia etc..? There were no such thing as unemployment in former USSR and people did own property etc.. You shouldn't posting about things you don't have any idea.
zrvpvo8789 9 months ago
@zrvpvo8789 Im finnish and half of my relatives lived in Estonia when it was under Soviet commance. I have seen and heard the shit what Soviet Union has done. Soviet Union didnt help anyway the puppet states like Estonia and Latvia and there was lots of unemployment, there wasnt any food or other material from west because Soviet Union didnt allow it. Tell me why Eastern european countries isnt so developed than western countries?
Soviet Union was leaded by communist party.
puju1234 9 months ago
@puju1234 I'm Ukrainian who grew up for a while in Riga. All my wife's family from Riga as well. So tell your relatives to stop filling your head with deluded crap - there were no such thing as unemployment or no food. 20 years since Soviets gone,yet there is not much progress in E. Europe even with all that investment from the West. It wasn't as developed as Western before the communists, unless you can prove that anyone knew Romanian etc.. made cars as well as they did Benz prior to WWII.
zrvpvo8789 9 months ago
@zrvpvo8789 I dont understand what your trying to say here. Your speaking something about prosgress in Europe. Well lets speak about tourism, does Ukraine and Russia have lots of Tourism? No. Why? You can tell me.
Only thing what I know about Romanians is that we have lots of them in here Finland. Romania was fucked up by Soviet Union and then many Romanians moved to western europe for better life. Romania is also a example what does communism do to country and its people.
puju1234 9 months ago
@puju1234 Really no tourism? Really? Why don't you travel to S.Ukraine as see if there is 'no tourism' in summer. Try Moscow as well. I doubt you can afford it though. Average Romanian is a poorly educated peasant.. It's their stupidity that fucked them up - not Soviets. Germans considered them as low grade and number for persecuted as a low life thief.
zrvpvo8789 9 months ago
@puju1234 What lies are you babbling about? As much as people talk about Stalin crimes - nobody yet said that Soviets gassed and burned people at rate of 4000 a day in single camp. Nobody accuse Stalin of genocide or attempt of taking foreign resources and land.
zrvpvo8789 9 months ago
@puju1234 Yes Stalin killed his own generals. But where did you genius get the number of 20 million people killed by Stalin? Do you realize that it would be every 8-th Soviet citizen? Actually, Bulgarians are closer to Russians then Germans. Orthodox Church rings the bell?
I'm Ukrainian and truly believe that you just another brainwashed teenage idiot.
zrvpvo8789 9 months ago
@zrvpvo8789 For example Katyn massacre where 30 000 polish officers were murdered by Soviet Union. Check from Wikipedia NKVD prisoner massacres. It seems like they murdered lots of Ukrainians, for example there was found massgrave where was 200 000 corpses and they were killed by NKVD. After this information Im not suprised that Ukrainian people are insulting Russians in youtube.
Why Eastern-Germans wanted to move into Western-Germany? Why Estonians hate Russia? Why polish people hate Russia?
puju1234 9 months ago
@puju1234 I bet living in Ukraine almost half of my life - I would of known of 200000 Ukrainians murdered don't you think? I don't. As I said earlier - your running your mouth on subject you don't have clue. What you call 'Ukrainians' are chauvinistic nazi lapdogs from Western Ukraine. Please don't confuse every Ukrainian with them. They lot less welcome in the South and East then any Russian. Better life in the Western Germany wasn't the only reason - people had relatives you know..
zrvpvo8789 9 months ago
@zrvpvo8789 I count Kazakstan and Ukraine as puppet states of Russia and I pray for you that someday Ukraine and Kazakstan will be free from Russias power. Poland has fought itself out of that shithole and now Poland is modern and high developed country like other western countries. They got good education and other stuff which Ukraine and Kazakstan doesnt have because of Russia.
puju1234 9 months ago
@puju1234 Why don't you travel away from Warsaw - you see how 'modern' Poland is... How come majority of finninsh military equipment is still Soviet - too dumb to design your own? What Russian powers over Ukraine ?
You have your head showeved so far up your ass that you see a whole different world from there. Where do you get all this crap you posting? Why don't you brainless fuckurd get in touch with reality instead of running your punk mouth online. And grow the fuck up imbecile.
zrvpvo8789 9 months ago
@zrvpvo8789 We got our own rk-62 assault rifle and also Patria Amv which is rispected in europe. Only Russian weapon which we use is PKM.
puju1234 9 months ago
@puju1234 T-55,T-72, BMP-1, BMP-2, 2S1, BTR-60, 1V13 series, MT-LB, D-30, Engineer equipment.
Should I continue?
Please don't bother me with your stupidity anymore.
zrvpvo8789 9 months ago
@zrvpvo8789 Finland doesnt use anymore t-55 and t-72. Finland uses Leopard 2A4 tanks. Also Finland doesnt use BMP-1 anymore. Finland Defenceforces are trying to clean up itself from Russian trash. Altough I have to say that PK machinegun and ZU-23-2 anti-aircraft cannon are good weapons.
puju1234 9 months ago
@puju1234 O, by the way - your RK-62 is nothing but modified Soviet AK-47 that your reverse engineered you idiot.
zrvpvo8789 9 months ago
@zrvpvo8789 Yea and Rk-62 is much more better than Ak-47. Rk-62 is simple,accurate,deadly and easy to clean.
puju1234 9 months ago
@puju1234 RK-62 is deadly because of Soviet 7.62 x39 cartridge design. It's simple and easy to clean thanks to Michail Kalashnikov. All you finns did improve the accuracy of 50 years old design.
Damn you stupid.
zrvpvo8789 9 months ago
@puju1234 that is realy retarded Russia develops at a very high speed. Its all the fault of communism but Rusia is thousand of times bigger then Estonia or Poland so it takes longer.
BOBODEKAT 6 months ago
@puju1234 Not every Pole hate Russia and most wouldn't if not brainwashing.
3000 Poles died from Germans daily during the War - how is it compared to NKVD murders? Franky, according to British mass grave at Katyn contained 4000 - not 30000. You should read or watch some decent Historical sources - Wiki hardly one of them.
zrvpvo8789 9 months ago
@zrvpvo8789 Hehhe, nice. There is historical documents proving that holocaust never took place. Excuse me but your the Ukrainian here, your country has been slaved by Soviet Union and is slaved by Russia even today. I wouldnt be suprised what kind of propaganda Russia is feeding to you about how bad West and Germans are and how good communism and USSR was.
If here is someone who is brainwashed its you. Have you ever tasted chochlate or have you ever seen hollywood movies?
puju1234 9 months ago
@puju1234 Holocaust never took place, huh? Are your stoned? What propaganda are you whining about you stupid finnish moron? How do you know Ukraine was enslaved - by sticking your head up your ass?
Has it ever strike you that Ukrainians and Russians don't like Estonians and Finns because you slow thinkers?
zrvpvo8789 9 months ago
@stunter200 Don't mind this idiot. It's common with finns to hate Russia. Can you blame them? They were beaten and lost they territory to Stalin. For 3 years they and their German masters were trying to conquer single city of Leningrad - never made it. First major Soviet attack and they quit German side. They were never under Soviets, yet most of their military equipment - Soviet. Education and common sense obviously not their bright side. So all they have left - drool over keyboard.
zrvpvo8789 9 months ago
@zrvpvo8789 thanks for helping the idiot understand who is the loser and terrorist
stunter200 9 months ago
@VisionarysDomain Haha! Finland were never wiped out! Weak russian sub-humans couldn't even conquer little, but brave Finland!
kaahaajaFIN 1 year ago
@kaahaajaFIN HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAH U r making me laugh. Stupid brainwashed f@@k. You lost that war, you lost your territory and you you lost your unbreakable Mannerheim line. Continue drinking vodka. the only thing u r good for ))
Svyatogor51 10 months ago
@Svyatogor51 Heh, you're the brainwashed one. You're from Russia, one of the worlds most corrupted and sh*t places. Vodka is from Russia and isn't even popular here...the average dieing age in Russia is 50 because, you guys drink yourselves to deaths and the age in Finland is about 70+, so you continue drinking Vodka ;)
And Finland didn't lose the war, we gained defensive victory. You only gained 10% of Finlands territory, just enough land to bury your 500 000+ dead ruskies ;)
kaahaajaFIN 10 months ago
@kaahaajaFIN Im not going to abuse your country, couse a lot of ethnic fins live and work in my country. especially in my town.
Defensive victory???? U lost your territory but it was victory!? Nice victory.))) keep winning like that.
500000+??? Where did u get this information??? SU lost a lot of soldiers. Its true. But if you attack well protected place like Manergeim line there is no chance to avoid big casualties.
Svyatogor51 10 months ago
@Svyatogor51 It was a defensive victory. USSR:s goal was to invade whole Finland but they got only 10%. 180 million people country vs 3,6 million country, which wasn't even prepared for war. Our soldiers equipments was ''Type Cajander'' because Cajander refused to put money in defence. So our soldiers were also very badly equipped. I got that information from Wikipedia (yeah I know, not the most reliable source, but it gives a rough figure about the losses).
kaahaajaFIN 10 months ago
@kaahaajaFIN And this war was only about territory near Leningrad, couse Germans could easily capture "the second capital" through it. nobody was going to take a whole country. What for??? We always had enough of ice and snow))))))))))))
Svyatogor51 10 months ago
@Svyatogor51 And USSR:s goal was not to just invade small area near Leningrad. In the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact was a secret document, where they had agreed, that USSR have free hands to conquest whole Finland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, half-Poland and other friendly neutral countries.
This has been admitted by the Russian government.
Oh and btw, if you've allways had enough ice and snow, why did you invade Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania. Your text has so many flaws and leaks.
kaahaajaFIN 10 months ago
@kaahaajaFIN Look at the map, my smart "friend", moving army to the north was stupid at that time.The war was too close. But they had ideas to change goverment. They refuse to do so, because of clever politic of Mannergeim. He signed an agreement in 1944, opened your ports and airports for SU. Otherwise nothing could stop Stalin in 1945.
Svyatogor51 10 months ago
@kaahaajaFIN And about "friendly" countries: it was clear that Fin and Japan will be German allies in case of war, so Stalin kicked Japaniese ass in 1939 on Khalkin Gol and they didnt open the 2 front in WW2, and your ass - and you didnt take an active part at that war and refused to help Germans. Learn history.
Svyatogor51 10 months ago
@Svyatogor51 It wasn't stupid to move the red army to north. USSR mongered and loathed war, so why would've they wanted to be ''away from the war''? And what has the peace treaty has to do with anything we've just discussed? We discussed about the reasons of the soviet aggression. Finland would've not been Germans ally in case of war. See what we did when the USSR attacked? We hold our ground, and if German would've attacked, we of course would've done the exact same as with we dealt with USSR.
kaahaajaFIN 10 months ago
my great granddad was their he was so happy when he was going to moscow 1941
1945joshuaruiz 1 year ago
When the son kill his father for the glory of a nation...
SoviPaPa 1 year ago
I piss on the Bible every once in a while, because it is a book that was written by the Devil, and it's behind all wars in this world
jordana8899 1 year ago
Name of song?
fryberg69 1 year ago
Comment removed
99gates 1 year ago
@DebelKrmak - That was only an appetizer; what Stalin wanted was control of the Ploesti oil fields in order to be able to choke off German oil supplies prior to attacking Germany. Read "The Chief Culprit: Stalin's Grand Design to Start World War II" by Viktor Suvorov for Stalin's real goals.
grantrjohnson 1 year ago
@grantrjohnson
Bäääh Suvorov you must be joking
ZERO credibility but good for the lulz.
Ploiesti oil fields could be destroyed by combined Allied air raids from Crimea for example
brocalfur 1 year ago
@grantrjohnson Victor Suvorov fantasy writer. He is traitor and writing his f...ken books in GB on money from US and GB government.
demon333roboclub 1 year ago
What historians have gathered here? Where have you read this crap?
Come to Russia we will tell and show you everything. It's no need to rewrite the history
sergynkov 1 year ago
VERY unlikely but it would have been much harder for the Germans- perhaps they could allready have been stopped at the Dnjepr and the Ussr would perhaps have been able to hold ¨that front untill some kind of agreement between G/R.
Denorius 1 year ago
Russia is in Asia, not Europe.
WunderDoob 1 year ago
Europe ends with Ural mountains in the East and North Caucasus Crest in the South East.
Until Ural you have the East European Plain - Russia's cradle where 85% of Russia's population still live.
Just buy yourself a map.
Heightofhate 1 year ago
Allied supply wasnt important?
The Ussr build only 150 000 trucks in the war-it got 450 000
U know how many tanks the Ussr could broduced insted of trucks? Some 30 000.
And if the Red army DIDNT need boots- why did they DEMAND 13 MILLION pairs?
What would the Red soldier eaten? in what marched? with what drived? with what shot? Without the western supplies the Red army could have been only HALF as big as in reality
Considered theirs losses 41-45 that would ment defeat, or at best stalemate
Denorius 1 year ago
Denorius, lol, the US trucks broke appart within weeks, if not days. They could not even be used as spare parts.
Boots where not double-lined, anyone having them would have their foreleggs frozen solid in the winters of the eastern front.
Red Army and population had food supplies even in December 1941, food supplies from US only really started to come in 1943.
Soviet-Union paid for every penny of "lend lease" and got ripped off in the process.
Fridaey13txhOktober 1 year ago
WRONG
US truck were MUCH better then the USSR equivalent
And 450 000 western to 150 000 USSR trucks speaks a clear language
And the US delivered so many food to russia that every soldier got one meal every day for the whole war.
Richard Overy, Norman Davies and John Keegan (for Brit/US) say that the ussr would have been dead without land lese.
On the rus side Bogdan Musial, Lew Besymensky say the same and on da german side Hillgruber/Picker say the same
USSR+West needed one aonther to win
Denorius 1 year ago
@Denorius "..Richard Overy, Norman Davies and John Keegan ..
None of those morons saw war in person, Americans love to brag how 'critical' was Lend Lease, in reality LL to USSR - 11.3 bn.(vs 31.4 to Britain), yet 87.9% of German losses - East. front. US supplied 14% of Soviet warplanes, 11% of antiaircraft ammo and 2/3 of trucks. % of food - negligible. Was LL important? Somewhat. Did 14% of warplanes and trucks really stopped biggest invasion army in history? Only according to US ' professors'
ihave1 1 year ago
@ihave1 Why Americans and Russians argue about WW2 is beyond me. Germany lost the war the second they invaded Russia... it just took time for the inevitable to happen.
nevermissed1 1 year ago
The Germans DIDNT try to conquere Leningrad because Hitler said that he wouldnt waste troops, at Moscow the Germans were stopped alone by the winter, and at stalingrad and the caucasus they were stoppeb because of the allied help.
Africa did keep Rommel with 500 tanks
50 000 germans and 500 planes away from the caucasus by the middle of 1942- the air war did keep some 500 fighters away from russia by mid 42.
Had the wehrmacht had those additional troops then Stalingrad wouldnt have occured
Denorius 1 year ago
GOD on the SKY!
RUSSIA on the GROUND!
rusbp 2 years ago 11
Even if Hitler had control of Moscow ,he had to deploy millions of soldiers to control the huge Russian lands and to sufocate russian resistants ! Invading USSR was an unrealized dream ! If Hitler deployed this eastern army for England and USA ,he would won the war !
lookgooddz 2 years ago 4
Let's not forget the problems that would have been encountered given the long supply routes that would have been constantly interrupted by partisans. Wear and tear on machinery, supplying the long supply lines also. Air attacks from the Soviet Air Force that would have merely retreated deeper and deeper in to all the vastness. It was easier to conquer territory than occupy it given the vastness of the Russian steppes. Capture of Moscow, a propaganda victory, in the end, disaster for the Reich.
8301968 2 years ago
Some how this could be a COD WAW zombie map. :P
loliamapie 2 years ago
bolshevik scum
A503B201 2 years ago
had 45 000 less tanks because-insted of using US truckes they would have to poduce them by themselves.
Not to mention that by the end of 1942 germany conquered 2 mio square kilometers of soviet territory with over 90 Million people-nearly HALF of the population of the ussr.
Without western help=no stalingrad and no Kursk-without that=germany victory.
And britain still was a great power in my opinion
They did the bomber offensive mostly by themselves and still raised 60 disvions 2/3 of the us
Denorius 2 years ago
The total amount of supplies under lend lease act in 1945, when war ended, was 50 billion USD of those times.
Of it, 30,4 account for.. BRITAIN!
And only 11,3 - for the USSR.
That's why I can't say the UK did a lot. It was dying under the German sea siege and only the US help saved it.
For USSR, anyway, the British help didn't mean a thing. It could fight without the UK easily.
18,700 US aircraft amounted for 14% of the Soviet air fleet.
7000 US tanks were shit Soviets never used.
Heightofhate 2 years ago
yeah but 1. it did still help- more than 100 sherman tan´ks fought at stalingrad as an example.
And as i said2. if the ussr had to produce the 450 000 trucks by itself it would have build thousands of tanks+planes+guns less.
and without western allies the 2500 tanks and planes used in africa would have been in the east+ the 20 divisions that were in italy+ 20 out of the 60 vivision in france + thousands of fighters which fought the bomber offensive so...
Not a chance ussr- best= stalemate
Denorius 2 years ago
And why do you think the USSR wouldn't have produced all this? It would have won the war not in 1945, but, let's say, in 1948.
You should understand that the USSR fought according to the world war theater, knowing there are allies. If they hadn't existed, the USSR would have had a different strategy, for example, not to liberate Belorussia or defend Leningrad, but to invade Romania through the Ukraine and conquer the oil fields of Ploesti, which would mean a stop for the German war machine.
Heightofhate 2 years ago
and u dont seem to understand this:
Without GB+USA the germans could have send hundreds of thousands additional soldiers and thousands of planes and tanks to Russia.
And that without the bombing campaign they would have produced 20% more war material.
And that without the allies russia would have been short of everything from food to boots to explosives to trucks to ammunition etc etc.
at BEST the ussr could have kept the germans in check on the 1942 front but never defeat them.
Denorius 2 years ago
WITHOUT GB+USA lasted for THREE YEARS from 1941 till 1944. The best armies of germans were in USSR front.
Gorkovka79 2 years ago
@Denorius u don't seem to understand that those additional few hundred thousand German soldiers wouldn't have changed much.
Hitler deployed 90% of his armed forced against the USSR in 1941 and the same amount almost until the end of 1942 when the first bombings by the allies started.
Hitler accumulated all his forces at Kursk in summer 1943 but failed to take the town.
And the whole German Central Army Group was annihilated by Soviets with 1 MONTH in June 1944.
The USSR was invincible.
Heightofhate 2 years ago
The Wehrmacht conquered 2 Million square Miles with some 90 Million people on it in 1941/1942 and that ALLTHOUGh the allies did help the USSR from the start.
If there would be no allies helping the Ussr then 1. ALL the THOUSANDS planes fighting the bomber offensive would have been in the east.
2. Germany wouldnt have to produce u boats- and could have produced much more tanks+aircraft.
3. Stalingrad+Kursk were only possible because of the huge ammount of Truck/material the allies delivered
Denorius 2 years ago
@Denorius The Wehrmacht conquered a territory with 43% of the Soviet population and it's less than 90 Mio. A great number of this population became partisans who killed about 10% of the Wehrmacht.
The help of the USA in 1941 was ridiculous. The supplies became large-scale first after the Soviet victory at Stalingrad.
The victory at Smolensk in summer 1941, at Moscow, the Demyansk pocket, Germans stopped at Leningrad etc. - all that was reached to 90% with Soviet forces.
Heightofhate 2 years ago
Before stalingrad some 35 000 trucks 2500 tanks, some 2500 aircraft and THOUSANDS of tons of fuel and food and explosives etc REACHED the USSR.
By the time of Kursk allready some
120 000 trucks, 5000 tanks 5000 aircrafts etc have REACHED the USSR-2 YEARS before VE-Day
Land lease provided over 50% of all fuel and ammunition+Explosives the red army used during WW2.
The red army soldiers were walking in 15 MILLION pair of boots delivered from the West and they ate food from the USA.
Denorius 2 years ago
I'm not talking about Kursk, I was talking about the victory at Stalingrad, Leningrad (where Soviets stopped Germans), Caucasus (the same) and especially Moscow in Dec. 1941.
Before January 1st, 1942, the number of American supplies was ridiculous and had no influence on Soviet victory at Moscow and Leningrad.
You can forget about the US tanks because Soviets only mocked at them and never deployed them in combat.
The US till the end of 1942 had little influence on Soviet success.
Heightofhate 1 year ago
Not to mention that the air war+africa did+sea war did hold away THOUSANDS of Tanks guns and Planes from russia.
Simply face it alone NO power not the USA not the USSR and not Britain could have defeated germany.
All serious historians do agree. If only ONE of the Great three would have been missing than Germany might perhaps not won, but it would certainly have survived.
U wrote it yourself germany conquered territory with more than 43% of soviet population!! Absolutely breathtaking!
Denorius 2 years ago
Thus,percentually seen, the supply wasn't important and if you take a look at thousands of Soviet photos of 1941,1942 and even 1943 you'll see Red Army soldiers ALL wearing old puttees and WWI shoes.
Typical Soviet boots start to reappear first in 1944,sometimes in 1943.
I saw only a few Soviet servicemen wearing American shoes.
The same is with US tanks which were all stored and almost never deployed by the USSR.
The USSR would have finally won the war by reaching Romania - in any case.
Heightofhate 1 year ago
even Russian historians have to agree that without land lease and allied help they would have lost or at best barely contained Germany- but its the same with the USA+Britain without Russia they would had a 0 chance of winning.
Denorius 1 year ago
As to the Russian historians, of which I've read a lot, there exists no common opinion - some say this, some say that.
All agree that the victory would have been impossible only some say it would have been impossible to be reached in 1945 and the war would've been much longer, others say the victory wouldn't be possible at all, but the latter are a minority.
Anyway, Russian historians are far more objective compared to many Western, especially US historians.
It must be said.
Heightofhate 1 year ago
@Denorius It's not because of the Allies that Germans couldn't take the Fortress of Brest during 1,5 month and the Pavlov's House in Stalingrad during 56 days.
Soviets deployed only one tank brigade in Stalingrad. And the sky was under German control. The Stalingrad Battle was a battle of simple Soviet soldiers with knives and rifles.
And the supply by the Allies didn't play any role in Germany's failure to take a house in Stalingrad during 56 days.
Heightofhate 2 years ago
What do you think might have happened had Hitler launched Barbarossa 1 May as originally planned and not waited until 22 June? It's almost obvious they would have reached Moscow and taken it but then what? Naturally one can only speculate and the what if will never be known. If any one thing from the Allies hurt Germany the most, the US bombing, according to Goering and most Luftwaffe Generals. The think that hurt Germany the most from the Russians, the T-34. You're pretty Damned intelligent.
8301968 2 years ago
@8301968 One must be pretty damn intelligent to understand your English.
Georing was a drug addict who overslept the whole war. But according to the Goebbel's diaries the bombings by the US and the UK failed to achieve their objectives because the military productivity in Germany had been increasing until 1945 when Soviets entered the Reich.
But you're write, no-one has killed as many German civilians as Americans and Englishmen.
But 90% of the German military was destroyed by Russians.
Heightofhate 2 years ago
Well I consider that a compliment, Thank You as I see you as being quite intelligent. If English is your second language, which it seems to be, you write it much better than a large majority of persons here in the U.S. You're someone I'd enjoy corresponding with regularly. We probably wouldn't agree on everything but there isn't anything wrong with a healthy exchange of ideas as long as it's done with respect and courtesy .Sadly it's something so many who write on these forums don't do.
8301968 2 years ago
Is English your mother tongue?
Heightofhate 2 years ago
It is, Yes. I can speak a second language, Spanish but not all that well. I venture to say you are probably fluent in at least three languages, possibly even more. I have heard it is not unusual for someone in Europe to speak more than one language because so many countries are all grouped together. Would you say this is true?
8301968 2 years ago
@8301968 No, it's not easy to learn another language. Or maybe it is, but it doesn't depend on your neighbours at all. I know people who left their countries, have spent 10 years somewhere else and still speak the local language in a very simple, almost primitive way, when others never live their countries and just read books but finally possess much better skills in a certain laguage.
It's just a matter of interest and will.
Heightofhate 2 years ago
Goering's drug habit(morphine) was a result of painful wounds suffered in the 1923 putsch. When he was on trial and off the drugs and slimmed down he was more than a match for the Nuremburg prosecution. Not sure I'd trust Goebbles diaries, propaganda was his specialty. The most intelligent of the Nazi hierarchy by far was Reinhard Heydrich. He supposedly was indirectly responsible for supplying Stalin the false info leading to Tuchachevsky's(sp?) arrest and execution.
8301968 2 years ago
@8301968 Who cares what was the reason for Georgin's drug addiction? He took strong drugs, he was a shooter and simultaneously responsible for all the whole Germany's military air fleet. What could be more idiotic than to have a drug addict on such an important position?!
Goergin was supplied with drugs in Nuremberg and later bought himself a poison
Goebbel's diaries were his PRIVATE diaries he wrote for HIMSELF ONLY and they were found ACCIDENTALLY. That's why they comprise truth to 100%.
Heightofhate 2 years ago
To this day it's never been established how Goering got the cyanide capsule, but has narrowed down to about three different possibilities. Thanks for the ffact about Goebbles Diaries, I wasn't aware of that. About Tukahcehshevsky(sp) I have always read that he was popular with the Russian Officer's Staff. When it comes down to Russian WW 2 History I WILL NOT argue with you. You have done your homework and I have learned a lot from you. As I said previously, you're very intelligent and informed.
8301968 2 years ago
@8301968 Thank you for your appreciation!
Tuhachevsky was popular among Bolsheviks during the Russian Civil War, that means he was popular among the most disgusting people on earth - sadists, bandits, war criminals and the like.
He wasn't popular among Russians whom he slaughtered with pleasure.
Under Khrushov it was decided to fight the Stalin's cult of personality.
Tuhachevsky was chosen as a "holy victim" for this anti-Stalinist propaganda.
A good step but propaganda nevertheless.
Heightofhate 2 years ago
I am very curious as to your opinion of Stalin. I frankly think he was just as evil as Hitler, mainly because he is said to have killed millions of his own people. A statement he is said to have made "It is pointless to expiate on the demise of the Kulaks, one does not lament on the loss of the hair of one who has been beheaded". I have seen that some in Russia still revere him. Are there many persons who feel that way? You certainly are an interesting individual.
8301968 2 years ago
The big difference which existed between Hitler and Stalin was that Hitler sincerely loved Germany, love his nation and was eager to rob and kill everyone for the benefit of Germany.
Stalin hated Russia and Russians. He was NOT Russian himself, as well as 3/4 of the Communist Party.
In fact, Stalin destroyed Russia and created a state (together with Lenin and Trotsky) which they called "USSR". Russians were renamed into Soviets, their culture was annihilated.
Hitler loved his people.
Heightofhate 1 year ago
@Heightofhate
uh, where was Stalin from?
WunderDoob 1 year ago
Gori, Central Georgia.
He was NOT "Stalin", it's a nickname he invented for himself.
His REAL NAME was Jugashvili.
He had a lot of political pen-names. The most famous pen-name he took before becoming "Stalin" was "Koba". It means something in Georgian but I don't know what.
"Stalin" means "made of steel" in Russian. It's an artificial family-name which does NOT exist in Russian.
Not only did NOT Jugashvili have a Russian appearance, he even spoke Russian with a strong Georgian accent
Heightofhate 1 year ago
@Heightofhate
Hitler loved his people? Really? Why when the Red Army came to German cities they game *** hours or days for the women and children to clear out but the fascists wouldn't let them?
Why Hitler said in the last days "The German people have failed me and so they should not be allowed to live."?
Hitler, like all capitalists hated the German works, 95% of the population. It was the opposite for Soviets. Putin is for sure closer to Hitler than Stalin let alone Great Comrade Lenin.
reyter2007 1 year ago
@reyter2007
Of course, Hitler started hating his own people starting with 1943 - because they stopped accomplishing his tasks due to their impossibility.
But I talked about the 30s and the first 2 years of the 40s.
Here, Hitler showed a true love for his country - unlike Stalin, Lenin and other Bolsheviks.
To compare Putin to Hitler is like to compare Cinderella to Hitler. Too false and unjust.
Heightofhate 1 year ago
@Heightofhate
You don't seem to understand.
Hitler was first and foremost a capitalist and therefore was only interested in what the people could give him, not what he could do for the people. He hated the German working class, 95% of the population.
reyter2007 1 year ago
@reyter2007 Hitler was first and foremost a SOCIALIST, that's why his policital party was called "German Workers' National-Socialist Party". Neither his party, nor his friends were capitalists. His childhood, teenage, youth - all these years were spent in poverty, among soldiers, workers, students, artists without money. What was there capitalistic in his worldview or words? Or deeds?
Hitler loved Germany and thought he was saving it. He was wrong but that doesn't mean he didn't love his nation.
Heightofhate 1 year ago
@Heightofhate
"Hitler was first and foremost a SOCIALIST."
Well what kind of Socialist are you talking about? A bourgeois socialist, a reactionary socialist or a communist/socialist? No need to tell me, he was a reactionary socialist and leader of the most right-wing capitalist state to have existed thus far.
reyter2007 1 year ago
@Heightofhate His ostensible "love" for his nation caused him to string up the antiwar White Rose college youth on meat hooks. He decreed for Germany's total destruction as the fronts collapsed in 1945- remember the Gauleiter ordenung????
IanHunedoara8 1 year ago
@IanHunedoara8 Funny how so many people express their opinion on how Hitler loved Germany judging by the last 2 years of his reign.
But there were 10 of them.There were the 30s.And Hitler had shown in those years,prior to all the later defeats,how much he loved Germany and how much obsessed with anything German he was - always at the cost of hate toward other nations.
But he was megalomaniac and that brought himself and his country to a fall.
With one word, compared to bolsheviks he was soft.
Heightofhate 1 year ago
@Heightofhate 1934- night of the long knives- slaughter of Roehm and SA members. Germans being tortured and executed in Buchenwald, Bergen Belsen. Love for Germans?
IanHunedoara8 1 year ago
@IanHunedoara8
The percentage of Germans killed by Germans in the Third Reich, compared to the whole German population, IS RIDICULOUS.
You can't compare it with Bolsheviks' crimes against the population of the USSR.
Yes, there were a few dozens of thousands of people who didn't accept Hitler's policy. Those few - compared to the whole of the German population - were killed by the dominating majority, who praised Hitler and saw in him the Germany's chance for a new rise and new victories.
Heightofhate 1 year ago
@Heightofhate A lot of germans who were deemed "useless eaters" were also killed - disabled and mentally ill people in Germany. Also, do you count German jewish people?
Gwyka 1 year ago
@Gwyka There were about 200,000 of "useless eaters". It's LESS THAN ONE PERCENT of the German population!
Jews were killed in Germany but they weren't really numerous there either, while numbers of Jews killed by Germans in Poland and the USSR (mostly in Belorussia and the Ukraine) are MILLIONS AND MILLIONS!
Compared to what Bolsheviks did to Russians Nazis were as nice to the German nation as a loving mother.
But both Stalin and Hitler were equally cruel to Russians and nice to Germans.
Heightofhate 11 months ago
@Heightofhate
>With one word, compared to bolsheviks he was soft.
Quite a stupid comment. May be you know well about what Hitler did, but I bet you know nothing about bolsheviks except propaganda myths.
passerbyru 1 year ago
@passerbyru
Whose propaganda myth?
Bolsheviks were killing their own people, millions of them, they destroyed thousands of cultural monuments, erased the Russian history before them and led the USSR to bankruptcy and collapse - without any external assistence.
Just monsters.
You must be an idiot if you like them. Or maybe a masohist?
Heightofhate 1 year ago
@Heightofhate
LOL, man, you just listed most of the myths.
Without any evidences, of course. But you can try.
Unfortunately I know very well, that whatever I'll answer, you'll ignore, cause nothing can make opposite side change his mind in such flames.
I can only hope that any person with independent mind can develop his knowledge with alternative points of view. For a start, take USSR demograthic stats, read Clash of the Titans (Glantz writes quite rationally about The Great Purge) etc, etc.
passerbyru 1 year ago
@reyter2007 What does "game *** hours or days" mean? What game?
And "fascists" were NOT Hitler, but his subordinates. As all other armed forces. And the fact they obeyed Hitler shows they loved him and stayed devoted to Hitler till the very end.
Heightofhate 1 year ago
Anyway, you can easily track the rapid increase of the Germany's military machine's productivity. You don't need Goebbel's diaries for it.
Tuhachevsky was a complete idiot and unexampled sadist who slaughtered half of Russia during the Russian Civil War using even poison gas against whole villages of the Tambov region when Russian famers conducted their famous Alekseyevshna - an uprise against Bolshvism and the Soviet government.
Tuhachevsky was hated by everyone in the USSR.
Heightofhate 2 years ago
Interesting you say that.
I'm not an expert of the Civil War but I thought Tukhachevsky was a competent military leader. His murder (and the abandoning of his warfare concepts) during the 1937/38 purges was one of the main reasons of the terrible beginning of the war...
brocalfur 1 year ago
Tuhachevsky was a totally incompetent military leader whose armies were destroyed at Vistula by Poles having outdated rifles almost without ammo and being totally outnumbered by Tuhachevky's troops.
Tuhachevsky was only good for burning Russian villages during Alekseyevshina, taking hostages and gunning down women and children.
The Red Army totally degraded under his command and his arrest was very logic and had good grounds for it.
The disaster of 1941 happened due to other reasons.
Heightofhate 1 year ago
The supply lines of the Red Army were overstretched while the polish side purchased massive french help.
brocalfur 1 year ago
And Poles would tell you that their positions were disperate and the only thing that helped them to win was their determination not to let the red devil into their country.
Moreover, Tuhachevky's troops didn't only slow down, they were defeated, they RAN AWAY.
Troops of a talented commander don't behave this way.
Heightofhate 1 year ago
Anyway, you can easily find this:
"It was during the Polish war that Tukhachevsky first came into conflict with Stalin, when the latter disobeyed orders by attacking Lvov instead of Warsaw. Each blamed the other for the Soviet failure to capture Warsaw, which brought Soviet defeat in the war. The animosity between him and Stalin continued into the 1930s."
And Stalin was a very vindicative person who never forgave. It was NOT Heydrich who disinformd Stalin. It was Salin's own initiative.
Heightofhate 2 years ago
@Heightofhate, by the time the Red Army reached Romania or even the US army reaching the beachs of Normandie, the axis armies where already half defeated. Losses already taken could not be compensated for in time, especially among the better armies.
Fridaey13txhOktober 1 year ago
@Fridaey13txhOktober
Anglo-American armies sat around the UK screwing each other until the fascist armies were decimated and the final Soviet victory was only a matter of time.
They invaded to prevent the Soviets liberating all of Europe, not to stop their political twins, the Nazis.
reyter2007 1 year ago
Those were Germans who lost millions of girls when Russians took Germany. Your grandma or great-grandma must have been among those virgins, moron.
Losses of Soviet military: 8,656,369
Losses of Germany AND ITS ALLIES on the Eatern Front: 4,928,078+ (let's say - 5 million).
It's 1.75 Soviet soldier to 1 Nazi soldier.
NOT EVEN 2:1 !!
The joy about many Soviets killed is a dream Nazi losers invented to console themselves after their humiliating defeat.
You seem to be one of them.
Heightofhate 2 years ago
U kidding rught?
From june 1941-December 1941- the red army lost 3,5 Million captured and 2,5 million dead- thats 6 Million- in the same time the germans lost 300 000-dead and captured thats 1:20!!!
All in all Germany+allies lost some 6 Million dead + captured on the eastern front- the red army lost 12 Million soldiers+ 6 Mio were captured- thats a kill/capture ratio of 1:3 for the axis
The ratio in tanks+aircraft is about 1:4
Denorius 2 years ago
That's utter b..llshyte to say it mildly...
See soviet POW's: the invaders counted every able-bodied man as POW an hence the inflated numbers. Many of your dead died in captivity/wre killed and didn't fell on the battlefield.
1941 was terrible for the Red Army but nowhere near your phantasies.
brocalfur 2 years ago
Look it up under the Bible of WW2 numbers- John Ellis world war 2 databook- there stands 12 Mio dead read army soldiers in COMBAT+ 6 Mio POW.
How many of hem died is another matter.
And Look in Richard Overys Russias War- he writes it there- In the time of Barbarossa for every german soldiers that was killed or captured- 20 Soviet soldiers did get the same fate.
Denorius 2 years ago
Those western WWII literature is lopsided in favor of the germans cause the authors used the memoires of the german military leaders. Remember it was the Cold-War-era.
Your numbers are nowhere near the truth
(12 mio KIA + 6 mio POW) beause there must be a higher number of wounded (1 KIA = minimum 2 wounded, 3 is more realistic). The Soviet Army had an initial strength of 4.8 mio and drafted 29.5 mio during the war.
Now do the math.
brocalfur 2 years ago
Richard overy if absolutely anti german he used only russian sources-in his book why the allies lost he seriously tried to convince people that the allies did win because they fought better not because they had more man+material.
The 12 mio dead+6 mio captured number- is found in World war 2 databook+Russias War.
U do some math if the germans did kill or caoture some 6 Million in 6 months (barbarossa) then 12 mio in the next 40 months of the war are absolutely realistic.
Denorius 2 years ago
The winning side cannot have such casualties ratio, i mean 1/3. How could you explain that in the end of war germans conscripted 12 year old boys and 65 year oldmen? The real ratio is 1 german for 1,3-1,4 soviets.
Gorkovka79 2 years ago
I have my numbers from John ellis world war 2 databook.
Here is the ration of lost men+material of germany vs USA/USSR/GB vice versa:
Tanks: 45 000 to 135 000 -1:3
Aircraft: 80 000 to 160 000 -1:2
Ships/Uboats: ca 1000 to ca 5200: 1:5
Soldiers: 10 Mio to 20 Mio- 1:2
Allthough most captured came in 1944/45 when the allies had an advantage of 1:4 or more- if the battles would have always been 1 on 1 in men+material allied losses would be much higher...
Denorius 2 years ago
The Red Army lost about 9 Mio in combat and others were POWs. That about 11,5 dead all in all. Maybe even 12 Mio.
But I did NOT count the German dead POWs, as well as the dead POWs of the Germany's allies.
Thus it's almost about 2:1 (I previously wrote 1, 75 : 1)
Anyway, no matter what we, you and me, write here, the MYTH which exists in Germany EVEN TODAY, as well as everywhere in the West, is that the Soviets lost something like 10-15:1.
Amazing bullshit!
And still cultivated.
Heightofhate 2 years ago