Ambrosian chant - Ecce quam bonum et jocundum

[Gunnarr123abc]

Good thing the Orthodox have kept to traditions!

[milly8389]

wonderful. 

[nroberts42]

No, it's because music has changed over the centuries to more and different forms. I'm sure you've heard of "sing to the Lord a new song". Well, thanks to God, we have learned a very great deal about music and how to make it. So we can praise him and celebrate him in many, many forms and types of music from different cultures. Other wise, we risk becoming rigid and legalistic, with our hearts hardening, refusing to grow and change as he leads us. We are not static, and neither is music.

[adamantis4657]

@nroberts42: Wrong - because christianity is an ASCETIC religion. And since apostolic times only the human voice was worthy to praise God with MONOPHONY.

The church fathers have forbidden to use instruments for the Holy Services.

[singccc1]

Could someone please explain the differences of Ambrosian and Gregorian Chant, minus the obvious melodic difference. Was this chant used in the Eastern Rites and Gregorian in the Western? Both are extremely Catholic right (no pun intended)?

[SevernaKoreja]

Divna muzika

[MichealCros]

Equilibre anéanti. Tant d'éclat.

[FraterNM]

Thanks for all the beautiful chants! AVE!

[alkantre]

VALDE PULCHRE. GRATIAS VOBIS AGO.

[jtkalehua]

This sounds very Eastern?

[Chad01234]

@jtkalehua Well of course. Christianity evolved in the Middle-East - hence a 6th cen. chant is going to have Byzantine undertones. It is through the Western Church's desire to differ from the early Byzantine Church that included a reformation of musical tonality within church liturgical composition. Listen to a typical Catholic mass - feels very Protestant does it not?  Then, look up an old calendar Greek Orthodox church - and trust me - you will have time traveled into the past.

[coraleecarrell]

what does "Ecce quam bonum et jocundum" mean? i am doing a report on this chant and st ambrose and this is my favorite ambrosian chant.

[Callixtinus]

"Behold, how good and joyful a thing it is". It's Psalm 133 in latin.

[coraleecarrell]

@Callixtinus thank you :) what about this one

"Ecce apertum est Templum tabernaculi"

is there a web site you would recommend to learn more about the ambrosian chant and how i can tell the difference between the ambrosian chant vs other types such as the gregorian???

[Winaska]

@Callixtinus 133 as in the old numbering or the new numbering?

[Callixtinus]

@Winaska : sorry for the late reply, it;s 132 in Septuagint

[Winaska]

@Callixtinus thankyou

[galor4]

The fact that I am Orthodox, a convert from the Roman Catholicism I was raised in, and someone with a great veneration of St. Ambrose are all reasons I cannot help but weep at the beauty of Ambrosian Chant!

[adamantis4657]

I am orthodox too and I like this orthodox chant also very much like all other orthodox traditions

Holy Hierarch Ambrose of Milan pray to God for us sinner !

[Andreas16329]

Ritus ambrosianus valde bonus est ad manifestandum gloriae et magnificentiae sanctae ecclesiae Mediolanensis.

[TheJanGran]

Great, thanks

[animaamin1970]

Ambrosian Rite is very beautiful!

[Vlakchus]

Great...it sounds like our orthodox chants. I can feel the oriental spirit fom this chant. Just beatutifull...

[Lysandros]

This was indeed when the Patriarchate of Rome was still a full part of the Communion of the Church Holy, Apostolic and Catholic.

[yabba234]

wow ambrosian chant is the best i have ever heard from western christianity

[sorchasloane]

It's one of my wishes to attend an Ambrosian rite in Milan once in my life. Thank you for posting this!

[roksancastle]

I wish that the Church would return to this music instead of allowing banjos and guitars. Why are we spurning our heritage?

[sorchasloane]

Because more and more of the members of the religious orders are closet-humanists hell bent on creating a Religion of Man, and liturgically perform an "expression" of him, rather than a religion of God, and an liturgical ascent to Him.

[forzaitalia100]

agreed

[Lysandros]

Alas you are right.

[theplanetariumscene]

Rokancastle,

Doesn't Psalm 150 encourage people to praise God with stringed instruments? If so, than why would it be wrong to use them in church?

[roksancastle]

PLANETARIUMSCENE:

Because the sacrifice of the Mass is very special. A carpinter can praise God with his hammer and saw, but you wouldn't want to hear that in church, would you?

[Davccelion]

Do not compare the work of a carpenter with the work of a musician!

Anyway, in ancient Israel, the place where Jesus Christ was born, music with voice and a numerous quantity of instruments was a COMPULSORY part of the service, God asked for that especifically. And the same Jesus and his apostles sang praises to God the very night he was to sacrifice himself...

[adamantis4657]

It was forbidden to use instruments during the services. Only the human voice which is a living instrument can praise God His creator. There only have been bells, talants....but no other instruments like it is still today in orthodox servies. The Holy Fathers have forbidden instruments for the serviecs and also church music is not secular music. It is spriitual chant - the chant of the angels. This is the reason why all the orthodox traditions are monophon .....

[theplanetariumscene]

If the human voice is the only instrument that can praise God, than how do you explain Psalm 150 that says the very opposite? Why did the Holy Fathers forbid something that the bible didn't? I have no problem with a capella chant, but I disagree with the unbiblical anti musical instrument idea.I'll get another thumbs down.

[adamantis4657]

Because the Service of the Church is different from the Service of the Temple - even when many parts are the same.

The art of the church was and is very different from the world - the chant, the iconography, the architecture....everything is meant to be spiritual not from this world. So that all senses are transfigured during prayer and the services; the icons, the chants, the incence, the prayers and so on....the whole person should be transformed. Instruments were introduced very lated

[jbjaguar]

Please, contradictions in the bible are worthy of an entire degree course, but they do not apply to medieval liturgical music.

[theplanetariumscene]

jbjaguar,

I think your kind of missing my point.Besides, where in the bible is there a contradiction on the topic of musical instruments?

[jbjaguar]

By contradictions, i really meant discrepancies between the bible and the living religion. No living religion adheres exactly to its holy scriptures, in part because of the contradictions.

[polychronio]

@theplanetariumscene/ that's what christian religion tradition is. unbiblical is the word for protestants.

[DLBBAM]

@polychronio That was a nice statement, you know that? And well merited too, I might add.

Rather than assaulting and offending your brothers in Christ, why not instead enjoy the music and the unity that is in Christ Jesus our Lord. (it is there, even if you do not choose to recognize it). Why bring offense to the Body of Christ? Let's praise God through this music, not insult each other, please.

[bizintin]

@adamantis4657 It surely is the chant of the angel...how glorious.

[frostythesasquatch]

@roksancastle

If I may, I would like to defend "banjos and guitars."

One thing about worship--particularly Christian worship--is that it is entirely relative. There is absolutely no one way to worship our Creator and we have been created with that in mind. If one had to worship through music, there would be a lot of non-musical people who would be cheated out of the opportunity just because their abilities would not enable them to worship.

[frostythesasquatch]

@roksancastle

cont'd

We are called to worship God with the best of our abilities and God gave us individual tastes and abilities for diversity in our worship. New music comes along because of the ingenuity that was given to us by God, along with the ability to create, to craft, and to sing. Why cannot one person sing bluegrass to worship God while another chants in Latin? I think that it also has something to do with the motivation behind the worship (see I Corinthians 13)....

[frostythesasquatch]

@roksancastle

cont'd

I appreciate this music a lot--I became Anglican because I felt I needed the structure and tradition to facilitate and enhance my worship--but I also appreciate my brothers and sisters that cannot get behind this and need to worship through something else. Those people might feel closest to God by playing heavy metal, or through wood-working, or maybe by just sitting in silence watching a candle. Does God appreciate their worship any less because it isn't in Latin?

[frostythesasquatch]

@roksancastle

Cont'd

Worship is something I feel very passionate about and it bothers me to see people limit other people's expression of themselves to God to one particular style, be it sitting in a rigid Calvinist pew for four hours a week or being "slain in the spirit" every Sunday morning. What's good for the goose is not always good for the gander.

So, in defence of "banjos and guitars", God gave us each different talents and it behooves each of us to use them for His glory.

[Winaska]

@roksancastle dont worry its coming back...slowly...

[SuperButt3rz]

@roksancastle God says worship his name. that means do it how ever you want, in Gods eyes its beautiful no matter how you do it.

[Hexachloraphine]

@SuperButt3rz

I agreee with your point totally.

However regarding sorchasloane's comment, if I agreed with that point which I do understand I would say he/she has got it the wrong way round, reason being that this music is hardcore-clearly superior to happy clappy......ergo more an expression of humanity, than innocent childlike "happy clappy" sing song with recorders and the like.

IE this music represents man more.

Happy clappy is hardly an expression of man.