Perhaps in the book it is clearly explained that the girl is intended to be Lucifer. However, in the movie I think it is more ambiguous and open to interpretation, even if Polanski himself said he intended her to be LCF. The final woodcut clearly shows her as the Whore of Babylon, which may or may not equate to Lucifer also in the universe of the film. Do a google image search on Whore of Babylon and you'll see lots of very similar images. There are several Archetypes at play in this movie.
I say treat it like a cloud and see in it what you will. All art is an attempt to share the artists mind, but no art is perfect. We are not seeing what was intended, but something else. Close maybe, but different. There is no authority on meaning. It is all deeply personal.
It wouldn't matter if we all agreed, that doesn't prove anything, or force anyone. :)
She is Lucifer and not a mortal woman. She chooses Corso as the one to enter "her" ninth gate from the beginning and helps him all along the way. In this scene she marks Corso as hers while symbolically indicating his now open third eye or illumination.
Beautiful...just beautifuuul! It's one of my favorite movies I love this movie. I know the movie step by step. By heart! I think I saw him 20 times so far. The first time I saw him in 2009. I like everything that is old, haunted houses, I love old houses from centuries past, I would like to live in such houses, I like old books, with castles, I am charmed by the people of those times. Please, if you know such movies tell me. Thank you very much!
@Innomen Read The Club Dumas by Arturo Pérez-Reverte Gutiérrez on which this film is based. The story is better and you will understand that the woman is intended to be Lucifer guiding Corso to her/himself. Polanski makes it pretty obvious in the film which doesn't make a lot sense if she "isn't" the devil incarnate. She is obviously presented as a militaristic and angelic presence.
@EartherZero Notice the marking occurs after Corso "gives thanks" for her assistance and "praises" her for her performance. She seems moved, takes some of her blood, appears to kiss her fingertips, and then "paints" Corso's foreheads. These are all Biblical allusions that Polanski is using to add mystique and romance to the scene while demonstrating the bond that exists between Corso and "Green Eyes" that goes beyond the physical.
She was in Frantic another polanski film 88, what a beauty, she kept up well, for a quick summary of the movie check out strange-frantic, by Grace Jones..
She's not Lucifer. She's a woman who acquired powers by making a pact with the devil, probably a witch. It's implied at the beginning when Boris Balken gives his conference about occults, he talks about how witches acquired power by making pacts with the Devil.
@celess21 "A witch is a person who though cognizant of the laws of God, endeavors to act through the medium of a pact, with the devil."
I like the notion of her being a former human. Basically I like any notion of hell and it's inhabitants as something other than cookie cutter bad guys and sadists. Like in real life, the truth is rarely so cut and dry.
@Innomen Truth does not apply in fiction man. Also, trying to define a witch, which has changed drastically over the years, is pointless and completely irrelevant. The notion of a witch was around long before Christianity applied labels to anything non-Christian (where the link between the character of satan and "black magic" was established).
She is clearly a demon, protecting/guiding Depp's character to fulfill a prophesy (in the movie).
1. "truth does not apply" + "she is clearly" == Contradiction. You cant use logic to attack logic.
2. I wasn't defining witch, Balkan was, I was quoting the movie genius, hence the quotes.
Quit trying to force your vision into other people's skulls. I hate that kind of insecurity. Just for you, I say she's the stay puffed marsh mellow man. :)
@Innomen The truth was a statement about your idiotic post.
Was not clear you were quoting anyone, certainly not a character from the movie.
"vision" nope, just correcting your faulty logic (no question about your errors). When you understand how stupid you come across, and how bad your communication skills are, you'll get to the point where people understand what you were trying to say. Until then, you'll continue to make these errors out of raw ignorance. I understand your frustration.
Ad Hominem the best I can get from a guy who puts "logic" in his name? I love you Internets. XD
Don't get pissed at me just because you don't have the mental ram to avoid contradiction inside of four sentences, or have insufficient memory about a movie you feel you know well enough to scold people on the Internet over to spot a main character's opening lines. These are your problems, not mine.
You talking smack about my communication skills is delicious irony.
@Innomen Try understanding the meaning of irony before you try to use it. You also seem to confuse comprehension and interpretation with simple memory. Again, this lack of critical though is your main problem. The comment about contradictions over four sentences was hilarious and sad at the same time.
I realize you cannot attack my comment for lack of logic, so random comments on my name will have to do.
Well, try to read your comments before you post, and think about what you want to say.
Irony is complaining about a lack of communication skill in a garbled and sophist way. I don't confuse them I just think one must be aware of data before they can expect to interpret it, and your lack of memory strongly attacks the validity of your interpretations. What else are you misremembering or leaving out entirely?
I can attack your "logic" with ease, it's just so much funner attacking your pedantic delivery system, given how proud you are of it. :)
You realize you told me to proofread via a post containing a proofing error correct? Yet more irony. :)
P.S. I love these postage stamp debates. I love how short YouTube thinks the average attention span is. God forbid I should have a series of comments in excess of a few hundred characters.
One very sexy scene and I love her voice. I bet if every librarian in schools looked and sounded like her, we would have a very active reading crowd :D
This is one of the most enticing actresses I've seen. I only saw her in one movie and wondered if she'd done others. Thanks for this link, Inno. I'm gonna get this movie right away!
@Mxsmanic I've had the pleasure of watching the movie since I wrote the above comment. And man, it's just great. Always loved Polanski. I can certainly understand why he like this woman. She's obviously very special.
I actually despise porn. Indeed I'm a big fan of Cindy Gallop's work precisely because of how harmful I think standard issue porn is. Having said that, there are exceptions.
One would think that if porn were my obsession the scene I would have chosen would be one of the several skin scenes in the film. (My favorite in that regard is the seduction/theft attempt.)
As for pretentious, maybe, I get that a lot. It would probably help if the opinion of strangers were important to me. :)
@Afroxec - Unlike the youth of today, and to be fair even the youth of my era, I wasn't trained to believe that being spiteful, stupid, and silent were virtues.
I defend my positions, I stand up for myself. I correct mistakes and more importantly am willing to be corrected.
You on the other hand are a caricature. A cliche. The cookie cutter troll who's proud of his apathy and has no mind of his own. You flaunt your 6th grade reading level, as if being ignorant is cool.
@Afroxec - I'm curious about what happens inside heads like yours. Do you think about your actions? Reading your comments here, what do you feel? It's pointless for me to speculate I suppose.
I wonder how hard it is for you to express yourself in writing. Do you struggle to form the sentences? Choosing where to put the "rofl"s and "ur"s? Or is it mindless habit by now? You make me believe the illiteracy statistics.
I try to imagine the culture that produces kids like you and I simply can't.
@Afroxec Just feeding the trolls like I do everywhere else :) Perhaps you could question my sexuality next? That's usually where these sorts of conversations lead.
@Afroxec Sorry to interrupt. The guy has severely cornered you and actually he is right spot on on what he says about your profound highness because as you may or may not have noticed, you have been insisting on commenting on the length of his replies instead of reading them. That would make anyone think that you are afraid of reading more than 2 lines full of abbreviations or even if you do it's just an imposition to you. I'm sorry for your level of education. Maybe you are talented elsewhere.
I assumed she was an emisary the devil as he/she wrote the book with an engravings clearly her having sex as the final gate at the end of the film.
I doubt she is the devil because she would have been far more powerful than just gliding and kick ass.
I like the idea that she is a mortal who solved the riddl, logically that can't true: the last gate is having sex: assuming she couldn't sit on top of herself (unless theres twins for all those with a dirty mind he he).
I didn't see the last engraving as her having sex, but rather simply being naked. I saw it as a metaphor for disregard for society and showing her true colors (In league with the dragon.)
I always thought that Corso was actually the devil in human form who kind of lost his ways and the whore of babylon is guiding him so that he can return or something.
Why is everyone assuming that she is Lucifer or the devil? I think that she is a mortal who solved the riddle of the books herself years, perhaps centuries ago... and now she has been given powers and immortality. I think she is here to guide this new mortal on his quest
@maddingo12 Thats a very astute observation. Most movie watchers would not have delved so deeply into the movie, to come to that understanding and realization.
she appears and dissappears elusively and impossibly
the sex scene with Depp is clearly indicative of her evil and dominance, and supports the idea of the devil choosing a corruptable mate to provide an heir
she knows why Balkan's ritual didn't succeed, and where to find the last engraving
she can fly
she stops Depp from saving the woman Balkan is killing; the Devil likes sin
"Clearly", really? Does Polanski officially affirm that she is the Devil? Show me. Like any good film or book, there can be several different interpretations... even the ending of the film leaves things to your imagination. All the powers you have listed can be gained by a mortal through the book... Balkan himself got a small taste of all this before he died. Being smart and having powers does not make someone the Devil.
Did it never occur to you that perhaps she had knowledge of the ritual and the book because she herself uncovered all these things before? Mortal women do not enjoy sex, evil and dominance? Because she likes to be on top she is the devil?!! lol Mortal women cannot be devious?... she wanted Balkan to kill in public so it would take Corso off the hook for the other murders... she said so herself. What kind of puritan version of womahood do you subscribe to?
A lot of people are going to assume she's what she was in the book that the movie was heavily based on. In the book, she was Lucifer who took the form of a woman to lure in a lover.
@maddingo12 She is the Scarlet Woman. This story is not based on fiction, it is based on reality. You would not understand all the meaning in it, like how Sirius(the morning star) plays an important role in all of this. This movie is FULL of secret knowledge, as most movies are if you have the eyes to see and ears to hear. I mean you no disrespect.
@koberask I agree with you, but I also think that one should remember the speech in the beginning regarding familiars, demonic souls residing in animals or other vessels able to be possessed.
@maddingo12 I think both interpretations are valid she could be someone who already made that journey and now assisting Corso or why not she could be an avatar for Lucifer as well.
It would have been a cooler movie if she turned out to be Lucifer... the Fall is also about the reconciliation of duality and unification of male and female energy ( light and dark balance etc....)
I believe that this movie by Roman Polanski , is based on The Dunwich Horror writen by H P Lovecraft . I suspect that the three satanic books , are supposed to represent the now famous Necro-watcha-ma-call-it .
If you compare her appearance to the artistic representations of Lilith (Adam's first wife) the actress seen here is pretty similar with the eyes being oddly colored and red/blonde hair. Masculin face but still an attractive women.
@DarktydeTube Yes she was/is his current wife as far as I know. Actress/model/and I think also musician. She fits the part and although he has never said it I'm thinking she may have been the inspiration behind the film.
He's had a pretty long history of romantic downfalls with one of his wives being murdered by the manson "family" followers and with criminal charges brought against him for his involvement with an underage women.
I think the fact that the book she is reading, "How to Win Friends and Influence People" is funnier if she's the devil than if she's the Whore of Babylon.
So on that basis I believe she's the devil. Because it makes the book funnier.
Enemybird, I think he was just supposed to acquire the book, not kill Corso, and I think fighting green eyes scared him. I imagine getting kicked in the chest by a supernatural is a unique experience.
@Xt3rM1nat1ioN It is Wojciech Kilar who composed the entire soundtrack. You should check out "Opening Titles", the first piece of music that you hear in the movie as the name suggests. To this day, it is still one of the darkest songs I've ever heard. To me it sounds as if it was written in Hell.. Fucking awesome!
@nuddywizz What I like is how when Depp hooks up with her, he is no longer afraid of his stalkers. In fact, Depp gives one of them a brutal and 'very final' message. Romance is stronger than ambition!
In my opinion it's foreshadowing. I think it's the image of the building where they make love. She starts it and he finishes it, of his own free will.
Well considering what she is, it's by definition an infernal mark. So I suppose it would have to be, in a way. But the mark of the beast I always thought was to be a more wide spread and universal thing. This mark doesn't seem to serve any of the purposes usually ascribed to the mark of the beast. So over all I would have to say I don't think so.
In the novel the movie was heavily based upon she was the devil. The devil feel in love with a guy and took on the form of a beautiful woman to seduce him.
I kinda like how the movie left what she is unknown though.
@ryry500000 Is she? I thought she was Lucifer's daughter maybe? As to restrictions, can't he pretty much go wherever he wants to, with the exception of heaven and certain parts of Brooklyn? As well, The Ninth Gate is an ENTRY portal, not an exit per se. this is one of the best movies I have ever seen. The actress, Emmanuelle Seigner, is very beautiful though.
Okay, I'm interested in ALL these topics under discussion, but let me ask a simple question. What do you people (fans of the film) make of Corso smoking all the time while he's examining priceless ancient books that should be handled with almost laboratory-like care. It happens so frequently in the film that there must be a reason and/or meaning - anybody have some thoughts?
I see two options. Either it means nothing and is merely an atmosphere setting device, or its meant to symbolize the very disregard that makes him suitable for this universe's particular brand of apotheosis ("the road that leads to equality with God"), not to mention his job.
The fact that it is mentioned in the film explicitly, "terrible habit for a book binder" makes me think it's the latter since clearly it was considered at some level and Polanski has the relevant depth.
@Innomen Well, you score big for the quick reply alone! I usually catch the little lines like you quoted, but I missed that one somehow - thanks for pointing it out. The disregard that you refer to reminds me of The Fool in the Tarot. Curso seems a little somber for that role, but you got my thought process rolling. I wasn't able to watch the whole video that's up on you're channel now, but I think your ability to see the falseness of social conventions would give you freedom in a way.
I try to reply as promptly as the situation warrants. The question was a good one.
I don't see Corso as the Fool simply because it's not Fool's luck that carries him, but a kind of destiny coupled with cunning. Part of the requirement for admittance was "inside information." As delivered at the end with "the ninth engraving was a forgery."
As for my other video: My awareness allows me to avoid traps but it comes at a heavy price. However, on the whole you're probably right.
@Innomen Funny - in my rush back and forth from the other room (football playoffs, call it stupid and I'll understand) I misspelled "your," which I noticed is something that you've mocked other people for. Maybe you can overlook it this time.
Intent goes a long way with me, you don't seem like a dickhead. Also now that I think about it, it's normally the other reversal I hate. Your for you're, not you're for your. It also helps that most of the time when I spot the swap I'm being called names at the time by the offender, another activity you haven't yet undertaken, so you get a pass. :)
@Innomen The point is that Corso (he who runs) became god. In the end he left the kingdom of shadows which is our world, funny thing is that the ancient Greek name for god has the same meaning as Corso. Maybe because the first gods that were worshiped by man where the stars sun and moon which are running in the universe. The real engravings were the path to be taken *luciifer's" road to apotheosis, Torcia's path led to burning at the stake like Balkan in the end (self destruction - ego ).
Fascinating take. Question: "ancient Greek name for god ... same meaning as Corso" Got some citation on that? To my understanding they weren't even into monotheism. I'd be more impressed with a Sumerian link, or maybe even something shamanic from pre-history.
I especially like your Torcia/Lucifer interpretation. I never thought of it as a fork in the road. Makes you wonder if Torcia himself was betrayed by fate like Balkan?
@Innomen I am Greek, in ancient Greek the verb θέω meant run, the modern Greek name for god is ΘΕΟΣ. Of course ancient Greeks believed in the twelve gods. Balkan was burned because he was egoistic and believed that someone else "Lucifer" would give him the power, if you watch close the door behind him in that last scene of him is closed. Also Corso (you know Opel Corsa?) killed him because he showed compassion, he could leave him being tortured, the last step before apotheosis "mercy".
I don't see how they are related, especially since as you say, they had 12 anyway. Not that it matters. It's still fascinating hehe. Guess if I spoke the language I'd see it.
I think Balkan was rejected because he basically tried to buy his way in. He apparently had no feel for these things anyway, he completely missed Green Eyes in his audience, while Corso spotted her right away.
@Innomen As for the twin brothers, Ceniza brothers , ceniza in Spanish means ash. They were the ones who printed the book, behind them there is an old printing machine. The one smoked and the other couldn't stand it, this is a detail to highlight the two basic natures of the kingdom of shadows (our world). In the LCF engraving there was an archer with the face of the twins aiming not at the traveller, but at the two pillars of the bridge, the destruction of the two natures and unity realization
You need to do a blog post about your interpretation of the entire film. Your comments in my opinion are the most appealing and enlightening of the lot here, I like the self reliance of your picture of Corso. I very much agree.
I get the feeling you're seeing a fairly different film when you watch it than when I am, to a degree beyond the normal variation among viewers. Pm me a link when you are done and I'll add it to the description of the video so others can enjoy it.
@Innomen silentium est aureum (silence is golden). I already broke that law I guess! Anyway I do not like Polanski's movies, although the ninth gate and China Town are very good.
@Innomen Balkan made it to the step before the winning line, BUT he didn't understand the esoteric meaning of the engravings, nothing to do with buying the steps. This is why he waited for a power to save him outside himself, whereas Corso found this power within himself.
@Innomen The winner would be the one who actually took the path of enlightenment (Lucifer's - Luci+fer=light+bring), and who actually would understand that that this is a spiritual journey which ends to "know thyself", nothing to do with mambo jumbo as all the others who were killed did. Also the baroness was also burned because she broke the first rule "Silence is golden", remember she made money from lucifer, the same with Balkan, they were no true alchemists.
@SATANECRONOMICUS Baroness used Lucifer as an excuse for profit. Remember everyone who was in position of the book was somehow familiar of the basic rules. FIRST RULE- Silence is golden. She made profits from books she wrote about Lucifer, the same with Balkan. Balkan and Baroness had somehow the same ending. First engraving, LCF's, the knight shows the hush sign going to a castle with three towers (higher spiritual goal), Torchia's version had 4 towers, 3dimensions+time materialistic goals.
@mcamoran You have drawn a coincidental conclusion. I see your point but, know that the interpretations of these sacred woodcuts are unlimited. So, it could be interpreted in ways other than numerology.
@SATANECRONOMICUS Depends on what you perceive as sacred. This journey is based on the kabbalistic tree of life. Personally I don not believe there are powers higher than man and even if I was to choose between god and Satan I would say none of the above (if they existed , I doubt it a lot). It is something as a cosmic joke, religions are creation to keep our perceptions deliberately limited. If we can't save ourselves, no one can save us.
@SATANECRONOMICUS Lucifer on the other hand is something totally different from what all religions (including satanism) believe. Lucifer is an idea, the idea of the fearless and enlightened man.
@mcamoran Lucifer, is what you make it. Labels, are meaningless in themselves. We humans give or interpret labels. SO if thats what you see Lucifer as..then ok.
Baroness was strangled AND THEN BURNED. And this was done by Balkan to simply keep anyone else from possessing the woodcuts like he did. Has nothing to do with the woodcut proverbs. ..they are for something and someone else.
@Innomen . Im not going to reveal the "Carnal" details, but I will say that the book provides much better insight into the mind of Corso and the girl.
Well, I don't have a copy for starters. Insight is a powerful word. I guess I'm just tired of everyone always saying "the book is SO much better" without really understanding why, and then there was your use of quotes and carnal, like none of us know what sex is, or like sex equals insight, I don't know, just rubbed me the wrong way so I felt like calling you out.
The comments here seem fairly adept at sharing insight without being all cryptic and smug. Why can't you? :P
If I'm supposed to do it for myself then why do you feel the need to be smug and cryptic?
I don't think you have any special insight, indeed I question whether or not you've even read the book. It's easy to tell everyone you're wise, it's a whole different animal to show it.
So far, the only evidence of any special insight you've gleaned is an extreme reluctance to articulate it. Which when you think about it is evidence of absence more than presence.
@Innomen I'll be what ever the fuck I wanna be. Its my business whether or not I read the book. I don't care what you have to say on the matter. ? I'm not claiming any special insight. Read the book and you'll understand Corso better...fuck.
p.s. I never said the book was better than the movie. Both have ups and downs.
Like I said, it's just an image which a myriad of other artists have used before. So Arturo Pérez-Reverte used it for his book "The Club Dumas" and Roman Polański copied it for his movie "The Ninth Gate". Is that simple enough for you?
I agree with Rome as the Whore according to the Bible - but in the movie, it's the girl! You are quite ignorant, if you don't see it. The reference was intended and is more than obvious. It's just a movie made to entertain you, so relax...
Are you talking to anyone in particular or do you just like being insulting to the general population?
From what I can tell, you're the one that needs to relax, the one talking like artistic interpretations are objective, and the one that likes to spam caps and broken English when he's upset. :)
"Obvious" is a subjective word. A cloud can obviously look like a turtle to me and obviously look like a helmet to someone else.
This is exactly like the Deckard was a replicant debate.
My last comment was actually an answer to TheBENGALHANNIBAL, as you should have seen by our previous comments. (I don't know why the system didn't take it correctly).
And when you take a short look into his channel, you can also see, that it is him - and not me - who doesn't stop insulting people on (as it seems) every video he can find. His only hobby is insulting people, his favorite writing style is broken English in CAPITALS - and I guess he has never had sex in his pathetic life.
She definitely is the "Whore of Babylon", try Wikipedia, there's a picture! But we might just as well call her a witch or a demon. So, she is one of Satan's helpers, but NOT Satan itself.
She is also NOT in Love with Corso, in fact she's only doing her job - and she's doing it PERFECT.
She doesn't talk much and "helps" only if necessary, because she needs Corso alive! She marks him with a trident sign in blood and finally makes him the "Chosen One" to open the 9th Gate by having sex with him.
According to the Book of Revelation (in the New Testament), the Whore of Babylon can indeed be interpreted as the Roman Empire, not as a real person.
But the simple explanation for the use of an image of the Whore of Babylon in "The Club Dumas" by Pérez-Reverte is, that the author was inspired by various old drawings of "The Whore" riding the 7-headed beast by various artists - you can find many of these on the net!
You see, I don't comment without doing my homework first.
Your home work needs refining. That IMAGE is nothing but a woman on a beast. Behind it there r EUROPEAN surroundings ie CASTLE. It has nothing 2do with Asia Babylon.
The revelation is only a few 000yrs old.
ROMANS r the best of copying other cultures, religions & making it their own.
I stick to facts, the GREAT WHORE is ROME, you only need to look at their abominable history.
Babylon is a great amongst the greatest civi9lization ever, nothing WHORE about that, only2 mislead
@MrSlytherin If you are familiar with Kabballah the whore of Babylon, are the seven lower Sephirots of the tree of life, the lower self and also they are called the abyss. The girl that rides the beast with the seven gates is the enlightened self that has tamed the beast or the lower self, meaning the person who is responsible for it's actions and controls it's destiny.
@TheBENGALHANNIBAL True that, but the Roman (in ancient Greek Roman=Strong) civilization copied the Greek by 70%, there is the strange story by Dante that Apollo told the Trojan Aeneas that his genre would destroy the Greeks for their insult for destroying Troy. Aeneas married the daughter of Latinus (where latin comes from) and the Greek's were destroyed sortly after Alexander's death (who destroyed Babylon). History repeats itself all the time. Also Rome was called Saturnia, for those who know
If u look in2 history, real history, the Greeks & Romans are not ancient. You only need to look at the Scandinavians, with their ventures. To my understanding, the matriarch system is thee oldest in Europe. The 1st things the Romans did is to burn Women Witches. Witches=ancient wisdom. As for Babylon, it was destroyed long before the Greeks, also this is where KABALLAH comes from. There is Karma too.
History only tells us we have not learned from the past, only to be more ignorant.
shes like "IM GOING TO RAVISH YOU!"
MsPingu112 2 weeks ago
There's got to be a sequel made soon!!........please
osei1977 3 weeks ago
@osei1977 If you ask for a sequel, you didn't get the movie in the first place.
iJordiii 3 weeks ago
she's french, she's awesome...
lapinschous1 1 month ago
Perhaps in the book it is clearly explained that the girl is intended to be Lucifer. However, in the movie I think it is more ambiguous and open to interpretation, even if Polanski himself said he intended her to be LCF. The final woodcut clearly shows her as the Whore of Babylon, which may or may not equate to Lucifer also in the universe of the film. Do a google image search on Whore of Babylon and you'll see lots of very similar images. There are several Archetypes at play in this movie.
JVicktory 1 month ago 3
I love this film but it so anoys me that I dont understand what actually happened and no-one seems to be able to agree!! I am so comfused.
AlexDrakeA2A 2 months ago
@AlexDrakeA2A
I say treat it like a cloud and see in it what you will. All art is an attempt to share the artists mind, but no art is perfect. We are not seeing what was intended, but something else. Close maybe, but different. There is no authority on meaning. It is all deeply personal.
It wouldn't matter if we all agreed, that doesn't prove anything, or force anyone. :)
Innomen 2 months ago
She is Lucifer and not a mortal woman. She chooses Corso as the one to enter "her" ninth gate from the beginning and helps him all along the way. In this scene she marks Corso as hers while symbolically indicating his now open third eye or illumination.
EartherZero 2 months ago
Beautiful...just beautifuuul! It's one of my favorite movies I love this movie. I know the movie step by step. By heart! I think I saw him 20 times so far. The first time I saw him in 2009. I like everything that is old, haunted houses, I love old houses from centuries past, I would like to live in such houses, I like old books, with castles, I am charmed by the people of those times. Please, if you know such movies tell me. Thank you very much!
IsraelShine 2 months ago
Comment removed
IsraelShine 2 months ago
I like the way you think. That is one Phat Nutty
holydraws 2 months ago
The directer confirmed she is the Devil.
CountryBoyRoby 3 months ago
@CountryBoyRoby
Really? Can you tell us where you discovered that?
Innomen 3 months ago
@Innomen It was either on the Commentary or Behind the Scenes. Not sure which, been a while.
CountryBoyRoby 3 months ago
@Innomen Read The Club Dumas by Arturo Pérez-Reverte Gutiérrez on which this film is based. The story is better and you will understand that the woman is intended to be Lucifer guiding Corso to her/himself. Polanski makes it pretty obvious in the film which doesn't make a lot sense if she "isn't" the devil incarnate. She is obviously presented as a militaristic and angelic presence.
EartherZero 2 months ago
@EartherZero Notice the marking occurs after Corso "gives thanks" for her assistance and "praises" her for her performance. She seems moved, takes some of her blood, appears to kiss her fingertips, and then "paints" Corso's foreheads. These are all Biblical allusions that Polanski is using to add mystique and romance to the scene while demonstrating the bond that exists between Corso and "Green Eyes" that goes beyond the physical.
EartherZero 2 months ago
@Innomen Probale the commentary on the DVD.
clearlogicify 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
She is not.. She is the whore of babylon...
etphonehome2915 1 month ago
She was in Frantic another polanski film 88, what a beauty, she kept up well, for a quick summary of the movie check out strange-frantic, by Grace Jones..
67Mantis 3 months ago
She's not Lucifer. She's a woman who acquired powers by making a pact with the devil, probably a witch. It's implied at the beginning when Boris Balken gives his conference about occults, he talks about how witches acquired power by making pacts with the Devil.
celess21 4 months ago
@celess21 "A witch is a person who though cognizant of the laws of God, endeavors to act through the medium of a pact, with the devil."
I like the notion of her being a former human. Basically I like any notion of hell and it's inhabitants as something other than cookie cutter bad guys and sadists. Like in real life, the truth is rarely so cut and dry.
Innomen 4 months ago
@Innomen Truth does not apply in fiction man. Also, trying to define a witch, which has changed drastically over the years, is pointless and completely irrelevant. The notion of a witch was around long before Christianity applied labels to anything non-Christian (where the link between the character of satan and "black magic" was established).
She is clearly a demon, protecting/guiding Depp's character to fulfill a prophesy (in the movie).
clearlogicify 1 month ago
@clearlogicify
1. "truth does not apply" + "she is clearly" == Contradiction. You cant use logic to attack logic.
2. I wasn't defining witch, Balkan was, I was quoting the movie genius, hence the quotes.
Quit trying to force your vision into other people's skulls. I hate that kind of insecurity. Just for you, I say she's the stay puffed marsh mellow man. :)
Innomen 1 month ago
@Innomen The truth was a statement about your idiotic post.
Was not clear you were quoting anyone, certainly not a character from the movie.
"vision" nope, just correcting your faulty logic (no question about your errors). When you understand how stupid you come across, and how bad your communication skills are, you'll get to the point where people understand what you were trying to say. Until then, you'll continue to make these errors out of raw ignorance. I understand your frustration.
clearlogicify 1 month ago
@clearlogicify
Ad Hominem the best I can get from a guy who puts "logic" in his name? I love you Internets. XD
Don't get pissed at me just because you don't have the mental ram to avoid contradiction inside of four sentences, or have insufficient memory about a movie you feel you know well enough to scold people on the Internet over to spot a main character's opening lines. These are your problems, not mine.
You talking smack about my communication skills is delicious irony.
Innomen 1 month ago
@Innomen Try understanding the meaning of irony before you try to use it. You also seem to confuse comprehension and interpretation with simple memory. Again, this lack of critical though is your main problem. The comment about contradictions over four sentences was hilarious and sad at the same time.
I realize you cannot attack my comment for lack of logic, so random comments on my name will have to do.
Well, try to read your comments before you post, and think about what you want to say.
clearlogicify 1 month ago
@clearlogicify
Irony is complaining about a lack of communication skill in a garbled and sophist way. I don't confuse them I just think one must be aware of data before they can expect to interpret it, and your lack of memory strongly attacks the validity of your interpretations. What else are you misremembering or leaving out entirely?
I can attack your "logic" with ease, it's just so much funner attacking your pedantic delivery system, given how proud you are of it. :)
More...
Innomen 1 month ago
@clearlogicify
Continued...
You realize you told me to proofread via a post containing a proofing error correct? Yet more irony. :)
P.S. I love these postage stamp debates. I love how short YouTube thinks the average attention span is. God forbid I should have a series of comments in excess of a few hundred characters.
Innomen 1 month ago
One very sexy scene and I love her voice. I bet if every librarian in schools looked and sounded like her, we would have a very active reading crowd :D
irGosu 4 months ago
She took his glasses... how the hell he can see her from distance ?? xD
DeAThPoeTiC3 4 months ago
@DeAThPoeTiC3
Maybe the blood cured him and he is just too shocked by the whole being beaten up and meeting a supernatural to notice right away :P
Innomen 4 months ago
@DeAThPoeTiC3
Maybe the blood cured him and he is just too shocked by the whole being beaten up and meeting a supernatural to notice right away :P
Innomen 4 months ago
@DeAThPoeTiC3
Maybe the blood cured him and he is just too shocked by the whole being beaten up and meeting a supernatural to notice right away :P
Innomen 4 months ago
@DeAThPoeTiC3
Maybe the blood cured him and he is just too shocked by the whole being beaten up and meeting a supernatural to notice right away :P
Innomen 4 months ago
@DeAThPoeTiC3
Maybe the blood cured him and he is just too shocked by the whole being beaten up and meeting a supernatural to notice right away :P
Innomen 4 months ago
@DeAThPoeTiC3
Maybe the blood cured him and he is just too shocked by the whole being beaten up and meeting a supernatural to notice right away :P
Innomen 4 months ago
@DeAThPoeTiC3
Maybe the blood cured him and he is just too shocked by the whole being beaten up and meeting a supernatural to notice right away :P
Innomen 4 months ago
@DeAThPoeTiC3
Maybe the blood cured him and he is just too shocked by the whole being beaten up and meeting a supernatural to notice right away :P
Innomen 4 months ago
@DeAThPoeTiC3
Maybe the blood cured him and he is just too shocked by the whole being beaten up and meeting a supernatural to notice right away :P
Innomen 4 months ago
This is one of the most enticing actresses I've seen. I only saw her in one movie and wondered if she'd done others. Thanks for this link, Inno. I'm gonna get this movie right away!
Zhawq 4 months ago
@Zhawq She's Emmanuelle Seigner. Her husband is Roman Polanski (the director of this film), so follow his films and you'll see her often enough.
Mxsmanic 4 months ago
@Mxsmanic I've had the pleasure of watching the movie since I wrote the above comment. And man, it's just great. Always loved Polanski. I can certainly understand why he like this woman. She's obviously very special.
I've some looking up to do!... '^L^,
Zhawq 4 months ago
"and arguably the most important" ur pretentious asshole rofl just admit u love porn
Afroxec 5 months ago
@Afroxec
I actually despise porn. Indeed I'm a big fan of Cindy Gallop's work precisely because of how harmful I think standard issue porn is. Having said that, there are exceptions.
One would think that if porn were my obsession the scene I would have chosen would be one of the several skin scenes in the film. (My favorite in that regard is the seduction/theft attempt.)
As for pretentious, maybe, I get that a lot. It would probably help if the opinion of strangers were important to me. :)
Innomen 4 months ago
@Innomen no u just devote 3 paragraphs defending ur porn obsession to this stranger rofl.
Afroxec 4 months ago
@Afroxec - Unlike the youth of today, and to be fair even the youth of my era, I wasn't trained to believe that being spiteful, stupid, and silent were virtues.
I defend my positions, I stand up for myself. I correct mistakes and more importantly am willing to be corrected.
You on the other hand are a caricature. A cliche. The cookie cutter troll who's proud of his apathy and has no mind of his own. You flaunt your 6th grade reading level, as if being ignorant is cool.
You're harmless. :)
Innomen 4 months ago
@Innomen rofl if im so harmless why u writing short stories to deflect me revealing ur porn obsession? rofl
Afroxec 4 months ago
@Innomen rofl its 4 paragrpahs u wrote this time...rofl defensive much?
Afroxec 4 months ago
@Afroxec - I'm curious about what happens inside heads like yours. Do you think about your actions? Reading your comments here, what do you feel? It's pointless for me to speculate I suppose.
I wonder how hard it is for you to express yourself in writing. Do you struggle to form the sentences? Choosing where to put the "rofl"s and "ur"s? Or is it mindless habit by now? You make me believe the illiteracy statistics.
I try to imagine the culture that produces kids like you and I simply can't.
Innomen 4 months ago
@Innomen rofl 3 paragraphs again u need to prop up ur insecure ego from my insights and revealtions about ur porn obsession rofl
Afroxec 4 months ago
@Afroxec Just feeding the trolls like I do everywhere else :) Perhaps you could question my sexuality next? That's usually where these sorts of conversations lead.
Innomen 4 months ago
@Innomen everyone knows ur a faggot that goes without saying rofl
Afroxec 4 months ago
@Afroxec Sorry to interrupt. The guy has severely cornered you and actually he is right spot on on what he says about your profound highness because as you may or may not have noticed, you have been insisting on commenting on the length of his replies instead of reading them. That would make anyone think that you are afraid of reading more than 2 lines full of abbreviations or even if you do it's just an imposition to you. I'm sorry for your level of education. Maybe you are talented elsewhere.
xxMrsRosexx 3 months ago
@xxMrsRosexx dude gtfo that was a month ago. prolly took u that long to learn how to actually read
Afroxec 3 months ago
any thoughts on why she has one red and one blue sock?
agentzippo 5 months ago
@agentzippo the primary colors along with the green of her eyes, they have their own value in simbolic representation, i think.
ssajdor 5 months ago
she's the best thing about the movie. Devil or Demon... she's hot as hell.
tjxkid 5 months ago
I assumed she was an emisary the devil as he/she wrote the book with an engravings clearly her having sex as the final gate at the end of the film.
I doubt she is the devil because she would have been far more powerful than just gliding and kick ass.
I like the idea that she is a mortal who solved the riddl, logically that can't true: the last gate is having sex: assuming she couldn't sit on top of herself (unless theres twins for all those with a dirty mind he he).
123NewtDark 5 months ago
@123NewtDark
I didn't see the last engraving as her having sex, but rather simply being naked. I saw it as a metaphor for disregard for society and showing her true colors (In league with the dragon.)
Innomen 5 months ago
I always thought that Corso was actually the devil in human form who kind of lost his ways and the whore of babylon is guiding him so that he can return or something.
TheGlyrion 5 months ago
Why is everyone assuming that she is Lucifer or the devil? I think that she is a mortal who solved the riddle of the books herself years, perhaps centuries ago... and now she has been given powers and immortality. I think she is here to guide this new mortal on his quest
maddingo12 5 months ago 16
@maddingo12 That is an awesome interpretation. One could argue that perhaps that is what all demons in Corso's world are.
Innomen 5 months ago
@maddingo12 Thats a very astute observation. Most movie watchers would not have delved so deeply into the movie, to come to that understanding and realization.
mindphreak4money 5 months ago
@maddingo12
The girl is clearly supposed to be Lucifer:
she appears and dissappears elusively and impossibly
the sex scene with Depp is clearly indicative of her evil and dominance, and supports the idea of the devil choosing a corruptable mate to provide an heir
she knows why Balkan's ritual didn't succeed, and where to find the last engraving
she can fly
she stops Depp from saving the woman Balkan is killing; the Devil likes sin
finally:
the girl in the last engraving is clearly her
Gadgets7777777 5 months ago
"Clearly", really? Does Polanski officially affirm that she is the Devil? Show me. Like any good film or book, there can be several different interpretations... even the ending of the film leaves things to your imagination. All the powers you have listed can be gained by a mortal through the book... Balkan himself got a small taste of all this before he died. Being smart and having powers does not make someone the Devil.
maddingo12 5 months ago
Did it never occur to you that perhaps she had knowledge of the ritual and the book because she herself uncovered all these things before? Mortal women do not enjoy sex, evil and dominance? Because she likes to be on top she is the devil?!! lol Mortal women cannot be devious?... she wanted Balkan to kill in public so it would take Corso off the hook for the other murders... she said so herself. What kind of puritan version of womahood do you subscribe to?
maddingo12 5 months ago
@maddingo12 I believe she was an angel that later became a fallen angel
garyzon15 5 months ago
@maddingo12
A lot of people are going to assume she's what she was in the book that the movie was heavily based on. In the book, she was Lucifer who took the form of a woman to lure in a lover.
Abasuto 5 months ago
@maddingo12
look at her eyes..
shes lucifer man..
CardsPlayer 4 months ago
@maddingo12 She is the Scarlet Woman. This story is not based on fiction, it is based on reality. You would not understand all the meaning in it, like how Sirius(the morning star) plays an important role in all of this. This movie is FULL of secret knowledge, as most movies are if you have the eyes to see and ears to hear. I mean you no disrespect.
koberask 4 months ago
@koberask I agree with you, but I also think that one should remember the speech in the beginning regarding familiars, demonic souls residing in animals or other vessels able to be possessed.
NRRRDLemur14 3 months ago
@maddingo12 Hey, that's a great idea! :D
TheGreatMalefic 4 months ago
@maddingo12 I think both interpretations are valid she could be someone who already made that journey and now assisting Corso or why not she could be an avatar for Lucifer as well.
komoriaimi 2 months ago
It would have been a cooler movie if she turned out to be Lucifer... the Fall is also about the reconciliation of duality and unification of male and female energy ( light and dark balance etc....)
vanity40ful 6 months ago
She marks him as hers.
MonacoBlast 6 months ago
Everyone please read The Club Dumas by Arturo Perez-Reverte to understand what's going really going on.
Polanski's The Ninth Gate will superb is just a taster.
twobellz 6 months ago
aaaaaa i can't get enough of this scene! love it!
jennyheei 7 months ago
I believe that this movie by Roman Polanski , is based on The Dunwich Horror writen by H P Lovecraft . I suspect that the three satanic books , are supposed to represent the now famous Necro-watcha-ma-call-it .
somekindaperv 8 months ago
……. Arguably the most important … good point, innomen… excellent flick, Lords & Ladies … See it if you've (k)NOT(work) yet done so ~ (•8-D
Clematisian 8 months ago
If you compare her appearance to the artistic representations of Lilith (Adam's first wife) the actress seen here is pretty similar with the eyes being oddly colored and red/blonde hair. Masculin face but still an attractive women.
blah666ful 8 months ago
@blah666ful shes was polanski wife, correct me if im wrong.
another interesting fact is that polanski past wife was sharon tate before she got butchered by the manson family.
DarktydeTube 6 months ago
@DarktydeTube Yes she was/is his current wife as far as I know. Actress/model/and I think also musician. She fits the part and although he has never said it I'm thinking she may have been the inspiration behind the film.
He's had a pretty long history of romantic downfalls with one of his wives being murdered by the manson "family" followers and with criminal charges brought against him for his involvement with an underage women.
blah666ful 6 months ago
Satan has a sense of humor when she's not out there being weird.
MonacoBlast 8 months ago
I think the fact that the book she is reading, "How to Win Friends and Influence People" is funnier if she's the devil than if she's the Whore of Babylon.
So on that basis I believe she's the devil. Because it makes the book funnier.
bedchamp 9 months ago 4
Enemybird, I think he was just supposed to acquire the book, not kill Corso, and I think fighting green eyes scared him. I imagine getting kicked in the chest by a supernatural is a unique experience.
Innomen 9 months ago
i dont understand why the black dude with the blonde hair drove off when he was supposed to kill depp... but later in the movie he dosent give a damn
enemybird 9 months ago
I wonder if Lucifer gave her a special power so that when she's fucking Depp, his orgasm is like 100 fold compared to the average joes cum blast.
Mamawaldi07 9 months ago 8
Whats the music in backround guys?
Xt3rM1nat1ioN 9 months ago
@Xt3rM1nat1ioN It is Wojciech Kilar who composed the entire soundtrack. You should check out "Opening Titles", the first piece of music that you hear in the movie as the name suggests. To this day, it is still one of the darkest songs I've ever heard. To me it sounds as if it was written in Hell.. Fucking awesome!
EarthRimRoamer666 9 months ago 2
@nuddywizz What I like is how when Depp hooks up with her, he is no longer afraid of his stalkers. In fact, Depp gives one of them a brutal and 'very final' message. Romance is stronger than ambition!
toxicchantel5 9 months ago
Lilith is hot, probably evil but I have a fetish for green eyes.
ThunderZone9 9 months ago
she's not the devil, she's the whore of Babylon
Nettuno88 9 months ago
Is that supposed to be a pitchfork she draws on his head?
bedchamp 10 months ago
@bedchamp
In my opinion it's foreshadowing. I think it's the image of the building where they make love. She starts it and he finishes it, of his own free will.
Innomen 10 months ago 5
@Innomen What's a foreshadowing anyway?
ishbalangirl 9 months ago
@ishbalangirl
From the Wiki: "Foreshadowing is a literary device in which an author suggests certain plot developments that might come later in the story."
Innomen 9 months ago
@Innomen
could that be the mark of the beast? the mark on the forehead?
nycballer4life 8 months ago
@nycballer4life
Well considering what she is, it's by definition an infernal mark. So I suppose it would have to be, in a way. But the mark of the beast I always thought was to be a more wide spread and universal thing. This mark doesn't seem to serve any of the purposes usually ascribed to the mark of the beast. So over all I would have to say I don't think so.
Innomen 8 months ago
@bedchamp
I see a trident, but that's just me.
XCrisXBeeX 9 months ago
lilth she is lilth
pat5823 10 months ago
Comment removed
Kidarrian1 10 months ago
@pat5823
actually its far more likely she is the Whore of Babylon
Kidarrian1 10 months ago
@Kidarrian1 the whore of Babylon and Lilith are the same. It's basically, a different name for the same person (queen/mother of the underworld)
xeniax70 10 months ago
@Kidarrian1
In the novel the movie was heavily based upon she was the devil. The devil feel in love with a guy and took on the form of a beautiful woman to seduce him.
I kinda like how the movie left what she is unknown though.
Abasuto 9 months ago
Very underrated movie,critics hate it
folladordeprostis 10 months ago 2
@folladordeprostis Critics are talentless wanna be's, listening to them makes one's IQ drop.
BunkerGearGal 10 months ago
@BunkerGearGal Critics praise childish harry potter hahahahah they are fucked up
folladordeprostis 10 months ago
She's not Lucifer. Lucifer cant come to earth till the Ninth Gate is opened.
It's the Whore of Babylon from Revelations.
ryry500000 11 months ago
@ryry500000 Where the hell is Dean when you need him...?
Halo1Pokemon1Master 11 months ago
@ryry500000 Is she? I thought she was Lucifer's daughter maybe? As to restrictions, can't he pretty much go wherever he wants to, with the exception of heaven and certain parts of Brooklyn? As well, The Ninth Gate is an ENTRY portal, not an exit per se. this is one of the best movies I have ever seen. The actress, Emmanuelle Seigner, is very beautiful though.
BunkerGearGal 10 months ago
@ryry500000
that was my first observation.
it could be argued that its Lilith as well but I think its more fitting as the Whore of Babylon
Kidarrian1 10 months ago
"And now, you belong to me..."
PsychotronicWar 11 months ago
if some random euro satanist chick put her blood all over my face, I'd be like "wtf - get out". Johnny Depp's reaction was pretty calm.
logankowarsky 11 months ago
Does enyone know where can I watch this move in web? What webside? I cannot find it :C
MsJuu 11 months ago
@MsJuu
Google "The Ninth Gate streaming" and there should come a lot of websites up, where you can watch the streaming :)
Seraphimself 11 months ago
@Seraphimself God bless You. Thanks :)
MsJuu 11 months ago
@MsJuu
Anytime :)
Seraphimself 11 months ago
She is fucking hot
Smaejdah 11 months ago 35
She is the whore of Babylon
etphonehome2915 11 months ago 3
she is satan
giannhsmas 11 months ago
she is lucifer
giannhsmas 11 months ago
so, who and what is she? I saw the film but never really got it. angel from hell or heaven? a demon, succubus lol. anyone knows?
Fjedrick 1 year ago
I don't care if she's the devil I would still fuck her
fugibubi 1 year ago 49
@fugibubi Are you a part of brainwashed America?
TheGreekMan1981 9 months ago
@fugibubi yea she needs a baby in her asap!
oddsource 7 months ago
@fugibubi use protection tho eh? lol
indigojayasw 6 months ago
Okay, I'm interested in ALL these topics under discussion, but let me ask a simple question. What do you people (fans of the film) make of Corso smoking all the time while he's examining priceless ancient books that should be handled with almost laboratory-like care. It happens so frequently in the film that there must be a reason and/or meaning - anybody have some thoughts?
mielazul 1 year ago
@mielazul
I see two options. Either it means nothing and is merely an atmosphere setting device, or its meant to symbolize the very disregard that makes him suitable for this universe's particular brand of apotheosis ("the road that leads to equality with God"), not to mention his job.
The fact that it is mentioned in the film explicitly, "terrible habit for a book binder" makes me think it's the latter since clearly it was considered at some level and Polanski has the relevant depth.
Innomen 1 year ago
@Innomen Well, you score big for the quick reply alone! I usually catch the little lines like you quoted, but I missed that one somehow - thanks for pointing it out. The disregard that you refer to reminds me of The Fool in the Tarot. Curso seems a little somber for that role, but you got my thought process rolling. I wasn't able to watch the whole video that's up on you're channel now, but I think your ability to see the falseness of social conventions would give you freedom in a way.
mielazul 1 year ago
@mielazul
I try to reply as promptly as the situation warrants. The question was a good one.
I don't see Corso as the Fool simply because it's not Fool's luck that carries him, but a kind of destiny coupled with cunning. Part of the requirement for admittance was "inside information." As delivered at the end with "the ninth engraving was a forgery."
As for my other video: My awareness allows me to avoid traps but it comes at a heavy price. However, on the whole you're probably right.
Innomen 1 year ago
@Innomen Funny - in my rush back and forth from the other room (football playoffs, call it stupid and I'll understand) I misspelled "your," which I noticed is something that you've mocked other people for. Maybe you can overlook it this time.
mielazul 1 year ago
@mielazul
Intent goes a long way with me, you don't seem like a dickhead. Also now that I think about it, it's normally the other reversal I hate. Your for you're, not you're for your. It also helps that most of the time when I spot the swap I'm being called names at the time by the offender, another activity you haven't yet undertaken, so you get a pass. :)
Innomen 1 year ago
@Innomen The point is that Corso (he who runs) became god. In the end he left the kingdom of shadows which is our world, funny thing is that the ancient Greek name for god has the same meaning as Corso. Maybe because the first gods that were worshiped by man where the stars sun and moon which are running in the universe. The real engravings were the path to be taken *luciifer's" road to apotheosis, Torcia's path led to burning at the stake like Balkan in the end (self destruction - ego ).
mcamoran 1 year ago
@mcamoran
Fascinating take. Question: "ancient Greek name for god ... same meaning as Corso" Got some citation on that? To my understanding they weren't even into monotheism. I'd be more impressed with a Sumerian link, or maybe even something shamanic from pre-history.
I especially like your Torcia/Lucifer interpretation. I never thought of it as a fork in the road. Makes you wonder if Torcia himself was betrayed by fate like Balkan?
Where did the brothers go?
Innomen 1 year ago
@Innomen I am Greek, in ancient Greek the verb θέω meant run, the modern Greek name for god is ΘΕΟΣ. Of course ancient Greeks believed in the twelve gods. Balkan was burned because he was egoistic and believed that someone else "Lucifer" would give him the power, if you watch close the door behind him in that last scene of him is closed. Also Corso (you know Opel Corsa?) killed him because he showed compassion, he could leave him being tortured, the last step before apotheosis "mercy".
mcamoran 1 year ago
@mcamoran
I don't see how they are related, especially since as you say, they had 12 anyway. Not that it matters. It's still fascinating hehe. Guess if I spoke the language I'd see it.
I think Balkan was rejected because he basically tried to buy his way in. He apparently had no feel for these things anyway, he completely missed Green Eyes in his audience, while Corso spotted her right away.
I like the idea of mercy preceding godhood.
Innomen 1 year ago
@Innomen As for the twin brothers, Ceniza brothers , ceniza in Spanish means ash. They were the ones who printed the book, behind them there is an old printing machine. The one smoked and the other couldn't stand it, this is a detail to highlight the two basic natures of the kingdom of shadows (our world). In the LCF engraving there was an archer with the face of the twins aiming not at the traveller, but at the two pillars of the bridge, the destruction of the two natures and unity realization
mcamoran 1 year ago
@mcamoran
You need to do a blog post about your interpretation of the entire film. Your comments in my opinion are the most appealing and enlightening of the lot here, I like the self reliance of your picture of Corso. I very much agree.
I get the feeling you're seeing a fairly different film when you watch it than when I am, to a degree beyond the normal variation among viewers. Pm me a link when you are done and I'll add it to the description of the video so others can enjoy it.
Innomen 1 year ago
@Innomen silentium est aureum (silence is golden). I already broke that law I guess! Anyway I do not like Polanski's movies, although the ninth gate and China Town are very good.
mcamoran 1 year ago
@Innomen Balkan made it to the step before the winning line, BUT he didn't understand the esoteric meaning of the engravings, nothing to do with buying the steps. This is why he waited for a power to save him outside himself, whereas Corso found this power within himself.
mcamoran 1 year ago
@Innomen The winner would be the one who actually took the path of enlightenment (Lucifer's - Luci+fer=light+bring), and who actually would understand that that this is a spiritual journey which ends to "know thyself", nothing to do with mambo jumbo as all the others who were killed did. Also the baroness was also burned because she broke the first rule "Silence is golden", remember she made money from lucifer, the same with Balkan, they were no true alchemists.
mcamoran 1 year ago
@mcamoran
Oh I like that a lot. "Nor would I made a million by writing about it..."
Innomen 1 year ago
Comment removed
SATANECRONOMICUS 1 year ago
@SATANECRONOMICUS Baroness used Lucifer as an excuse for profit. Remember everyone who was in position of the book was somehow familiar of the basic rules. FIRST RULE- Silence is golden. She made profits from books she wrote about Lucifer, the same with Balkan. Balkan and Baroness had somehow the same ending. First engraving, LCF's, the knight shows the hush sign going to a castle with three towers (higher spiritual goal), Torchia's version had 4 towers, 3dimensions+time materialistic goals.
mcamoran 1 year ago
@mcamoran You have drawn a coincidental conclusion. I see your point but, know that the interpretations of these sacred woodcuts are unlimited. So, it could be interpreted in ways other than numerology.
SATANECRONOMICUS 1 year ago
@SATANECRONOMICUS Depends on what you perceive as sacred. This journey is based on the kabbalistic tree of life. Personally I don not believe there are powers higher than man and even if I was to choose between god and Satan I would say none of the above (if they existed , I doubt it a lot). It is something as a cosmic joke, religions are creation to keep our perceptions deliberately limited. If we can't save ourselves, no one can save us.
mcamoran 1 year ago
@SATANECRONOMICUS Lucifer on the other hand is something totally different from what all religions (including satanism) believe. Lucifer is an idea, the idea of the fearless and enlightened man.
mcamoran 1 year ago
@mcamoran Lucifer, is what you make it. Labels, are meaningless in themselves. We humans give or interpret labels. SO if thats what you see Lucifer as..then ok.
SATANECRONOMICUS 1 year ago
@SATANECRONOMICUS This is called freedom of choice. :)
mcamoran 1 year ago
@mcamoran Rights, have nothing to do with it. Rights are not real, physical things. They're made up by humans.
SATANECRONOMICUS 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Baroness was strangled AND THEN BURNED. And this was done by Balkan to simply keep anyone else from possessing the woodcuts like he did. Has nothing to do with the woodcut proverbs. ..they are for something and someone else.
SATANECRONOMICUS 1 year ago
This scene in the book has soo much more depth.
SATANECRONOMICUS 1 year ago
@SATANECRONOMICUS
What is missing in the movie version? Roughly. Do a good job and people might track the book down.
Innomen 1 year ago
@Innomen . Im not going to reveal the "Carnal" details, but I will say that the book provides much better insight into the mind of Corso and the girl.
SATANECRONOMICUS 1 year ago
@SATANECRONOMICUS
So they have sex? That's the big insight? :P
Innomen 1 year ago
@Innomen , Why don't you go read the book, instead of asking me for all the answers....
SATANECRONOMICUS 1 year ago
@SATANECRONOMICUS
Well, I don't have a copy for starters. Insight is a powerful word. I guess I'm just tired of everyone always saying "the book is SO much better" without really understanding why, and then there was your use of quotes and carnal, like none of us know what sex is, or like sex equals insight, I don't know, just rubbed me the wrong way so I felt like calling you out.
The comments here seem fairly adept at sharing insight without being all cryptic and smug. Why can't you? :P
Innomen 1 year ago
@Innomen Im not here to tell you how the story goes. Do it for yourself. Plain an simple.
SATANECRONOMICUS 1 year ago
@SATANECRONOMICUS
If I'm supposed to do it for myself then why do you feel the need to be smug and cryptic?
I don't think you have any special insight, indeed I question whether or not you've even read the book. It's easy to tell everyone you're wise, it's a whole different animal to show it.
So far, the only evidence of any special insight you've gleaned is an extreme reluctance to articulate it. Which when you think about it is evidence of absence more than presence.
Plain and simple :)
Innomen 1 year ago
@Innomen I'll be what ever the fuck I wanna be. Its my business whether or not I read the book. I don't care what you have to say on the matter. ? I'm not claiming any special insight. Read the book and you'll understand Corso better...fuck.
p.s. I never said the book was better than the movie. Both have ups and downs.
SATANECRONOMICUS 1 year ago 2
Comment removed
rustigmgm 1 year ago
Predator!
rustigmgm 1 year ago
Hail Lucifer for all eternity!!!!!!
machine070 1 year ago
Like I said, it's just an image which a myriad of other artists have used before. So Arturo Pérez-Reverte used it for his book "The Club Dumas" and Roman Polański copied it for his movie "The Ninth Gate". Is that simple enough for you?
I agree with Rome as the Whore according to the Bible - but in the movie, it's the girl! You are quite ignorant, if you don't see it. The reference was intended and is more than obvious. It's just a movie made to entertain you, so relax...
MrSlytherin 1 year ago
@MrSlytherin
Are you talking to anyone in particular or do you just like being insulting to the general population?
From what I can tell, you're the one that needs to relax, the one talking like artistic interpretations are objective, and the one that likes to spam caps and broken English when he's upset. :)
"Obvious" is a subjective word. A cloud can obviously look like a turtle to me and obviously look like a helmet to someone else.
This is exactly like the Deckard was a replicant debate.
Innomen 1 year ago
@Innomen
My last comment was actually an answer to TheBENGALHANNIBAL, as you should have seen by our previous comments. (I don't know why the system didn't take it correctly).
And when you take a short look into his channel, you can also see, that it is him - and not me - who doesn't stop insulting people on (as it seems) every video he can find. His only hobby is insulting people, his favorite writing style is broken English in CAPITALS - and I guess he has never had sex in his pathetic life.
MrSlytherin 1 year ago
She definitely is the "Whore of Babylon", try Wikipedia, there's a picture! But we might just as well call her a witch or a demon. So, she is one of Satan's helpers, but NOT Satan itself.
She is also NOT in Love with Corso, in fact she's only doing her job - and she's doing it PERFECT.
She doesn't talk much and "helps" only if necessary, because she needs Corso alive! She marks him with a trident sign in blood and finally makes him the "Chosen One" to open the 9th Gate by having sex with him.
MrSlytherin 1 year ago
@MrSlytherin
BABYLON is one of the greatest CIVILIZATION ever. That influenced primitiive greeks romans etc etc
"the whore of Bablyon " is non existent only flasehoods that SHEEPLE follow.
REAL EVIL, PURE EVIL is the ROME, the WHORE of EVIL.
All EVIL leads to ROME, the WHORE.
Go by facts not RUMORS.
TheBENGALHANNIBAL 1 year ago
@TheBENGALHANNIBAL
According to the Book of Revelation (in the New Testament), the Whore of Babylon can indeed be interpreted as the Roman Empire, not as a real person.
But the simple explanation for the use of an image of the Whore of Babylon in "The Club Dumas" by Pérez-Reverte is, that the author was inspired by various old drawings of "The Whore" riding the 7-headed beast by various artists - you can find many of these on the net!
You see, I don't comment without doing my homework first.
MrSlytherin 1 year ago
@MrSlytherin
Your home work needs refining. That IMAGE is nothing but a woman on a beast. Behind it there r EUROPEAN surroundings ie CASTLE. It has nothing 2do with Asia Babylon.
The revelation is only a few 000yrs old.
ROMANS r the best of copying other cultures, religions & making it their own.
I stick to facts, the GREAT WHORE is ROME, you only need to look at their abominable history.
Babylon is a great amongst the greatest civi9lization ever, nothing WHORE about that, only2 mislead
TheBENGALHANNIBAL 1 year ago
@MrSlytherin If you are familiar with Kabballah the whore of Babylon, are the seven lower Sephirots of the tree of life, the lower self and also they are called the abyss. The girl that rides the beast with the seven gates is the enlightened self that has tamed the beast or the lower self, meaning the person who is responsible for it's actions and controls it's destiny.
mcamoran 1 year ago
@TheBENGALHANNIBAL True that, but the Roman (in ancient Greek Roman=Strong) civilization copied the Greek by 70%, there is the strange story by Dante that Apollo told the Trojan Aeneas that his genre would destroy the Greeks for their insult for destroying Troy. Aeneas married the daughter of Latinus (where latin comes from) and the Greek's were destroyed sortly after Alexander's death (who destroyed Babylon). History repeats itself all the time. Also Rome was called Saturnia, for those who know
mcamoran 1 year ago
@mcamoran
If u look in2 history, real history, the Greeks & Romans are not ancient. You only need to look at the Scandinavians, with their ventures. To my understanding, the matriarch system is thee oldest in Europe. The 1st things the Romans did is to burn Women Witches. Witches=ancient wisdom. As for Babylon, it was destroyed long before the Greeks, also this is where KABALLAH comes from. There is Karma too.
History only tells us we have not learned from the past, only to be more ignorant.
TheBENGALHANNIBAL 1 year ago