after finishing reading about this fight and feud, i am going to watch this entire fight right now and score it myself. ill give my score for each round in each part, starting with round 1 probably above this one. yes, im bored.
When Leonard battled himself out of that corner and held his own ground....uh.....that's RESPECT on my part!! That gave Leonard the extra point he needed!! LEGENDARY FIGHT!! Boxing's never been the same!!!
when i watched this has a boy i had hagler winning but after watching again there is no doubt leonard won this fight for hagler to have won this fight you would have to give him every close round. but great fight and i still would have liked hagler to win
1982-1986 SRL was chillin eating hot wings, chasing women getting drunk every day while Hagler was in great shape fighting on a regular basis. And Ray comes back to beat him. Hagler doesnt deserve a rematch for allowing that to happen. No wonder why he moved to italy. 40% of SRL beat Hagler
Why do people always start talking about what wasn't a good idea after a fight? At the time of the fight I never heard anyone say Haglers gonna lose, becuse he is caving in to all Leonards demands. They were all like Leonard doesn't stand a chance. I don't know what fight you were watching, but I scored in favor of Leonard 7rds. to 4rds and 1 even 116-113.
No middleweight or welterweight could knock out this version of Ray Leonard. I understand your point a young Ray at welter at in his early 20s was faster than this 31 year old middleweight version but he was still damn good.
I dissagree on both counts. The 87 version was quite superb, probably superior to the 79 version. Frankly, I wasnt impressed with the 79 version exept by his speed. However to say that he could not be stopped, you are in SERIOUS ERROR! What about prime Hagler? I think hagler wouldve knocked him cold early. Also Micheal Nunn. One mistake from Ray and Mike would take him out in the blink of an eye (ala S. Kalambay). I also think Roy Jones & J. Jackson would do the evil deed
he was taking on a shell. That doesnt make you a legend! A legend wouldve said "Okay let's get it on NOW", not in 5 years!!!
And Hagler WAS NOT UNDISPUTED Champ in 87! Check the tape during the intros. it clearly says "WBC middleweight champ". This cheap imitation doesnt even begin to compare with the dominant champion that had Ray Leonard quivering with his head in the early 80s, too scared to make waves and make an appearance for more than one month in 1984.
Weather Hagler won or not its time to educate young boxing fans. Ray Leonard from 1982-1986 was chilling drinking corona and eating hot wings. Meaning he was retired. Marvin Hagler was fighting Duran 1983, Hamsho (twice) 1984, Hearns 1985, Mugabi 1986 and Hagler was undisputed 160 pound champion.
Bottom line is SRL went from drinking Corona, drugs, hot wings, ( INACTIVE) for 5 years and was like YO can i fight Hagler. And the fight ended up close. Now thats a BOXING LEGEND
Andy price! Who the FUCK was ANDY Price? Andy got two losses in 1977 and two more in 78. What does one more loss - to Ray leonard mean? it dont mean shit!
If your man was half the fighter you say he was then he would have no problems with younger fighters the way he did in the Norris fight when he was SUPPOSED to WIN. Not only did he not win, he got slaughtered! Embarrassed! Humiliated!
That's what happens when you're overrated and go around picking fights with the wrong guy!
Floys record looks better because SRL fought past his prime.; Remember Ray had losses to Camacho and Norris past his peak. Also Floyd has never faced a fighter the caliver of 1980 Duran. Lets keep in mind Castillo actually won there 1st fight and he aint on Durans level.
Bottom line is this - At 147 pounds Floyd won a close split decision over past prime Oscar and your putting him over prime SRL. LOL
Floyds 2010 Tommy Hearns is Manny Pacquiao and what is Floyd doing? RUNNING like a PUNK
Floyd is same age as Leonard but the difference is Floyd keeps winning while Ray is an incompentent boob when faced with younger faster opponents like Norris
remember? Camacho was past his prime too
Floyd is way better than that weakling media creation
@Cezanne WHAT?! Mayweather is "way worse". Floyd has beaten top competition on his way to being the pound-for-pound king... Leonard only won 5 belts 'cause he beat bums in his last few fights. Look at their records and you tell me whose better? Leonard - 35 wins, 3 losses, 1 draw. Floyd Mayweather "The greatest of all-time" - 41 wins, 0 losses, 0 draws. Floyd is on another level... too fast... I saw him in a training video throwing 6638 punches in 5 MINUTES... that's BAD!
Very little hit Hagler in the opening round and thats how it was to be throughout... Leonard looking to impress the judges with flashy combinations of little substance.
@NazhitsREALLYHARD If Leonard hit with no substance then Hagler should have easily stopped Leonard early. I think Leonard was harder to fight than Hagler thought.
@Cezanne Yeah Leonard hit with no substance because in the first 3 rounds he just coasted them as Hagler gave them away. Those 3 rounds cost him the fight and his championship. Had Hagler not abandoned his Southpaw style he would've been too slick for Leonard.
If i was scoring this fight, it's a draw! Both fighters were pretty even early, then Hagler took control during the middle rounds, and Leonard dominated the end, even though he was tired.
Leonard clearly won the fight by points. However he did not fight the way he should have in order to prove he was better fighter than Hagler. He knew he wasn't better thab Hagler.
Once again, Ray was out of the game for several years, never took a single tune up fight, went up in weight and fought the most menacing Middleweight in recent history! The advantage was all Marvin's... and he simply got out smarted and beat!
Your right on many aspects but when you say Hagler was "menacing" at this time is wrong. Hagler "was" menacing. Hearns and Mugabi fights took much out of Marvin. He already had a pretty tough career & those two fights took alot out of Marvin. During the Magabi fight he was getting hit more than he should of normally. Ray noted this and also stated how Hagler had lost a lot of speed. He was "beat up" by the time these two fought. Hagler wanted to retire but couldn't pass this up.
As well you can see Hagler just "plodding" along during rounds 9 onward. His hand speed was in the gutter. Age+A hard career-+ finally those two mega wars with Hearns and Mugabi left Hagler spent. Sure he "looked" in great shape as always ...and he was. However the speed, a bit of reflexes, his endurance and even his some of punching power were suffering by this fight. You can just tell. He wasn't what he was. During early years, when Leonard was active he wanted no part of Hagler.
@ianbillen I think Haglers ego hurt him in this fight as much as anything. He'd say things like "I'm faster than Ray and I can outbox him if I need to". Nobody and I mean NOBODY gave Leonard a chance in this fight and I didn't hear a single person say that Hagler was SPENT in any way prior to the bout. Not one commentator, sports analyst..no one. I was on a huge construction job at the time and I was the only person who picked Leonard and I said if Marvin doesn't get a knock out, Ray wins easily
Your right. He wanted to try and outbox Leonard versus trying to go in slugging like he was inadequate against a true boxer. He didn't want to win like that. He wanted to go out like he was just as skilled as the great Leoneard. But his talents had deterioated. Your right ...nobody saw Leonard winning. Your also right ... Nodoby saw Hagler as spent at the time. Folks thought Leonard was nuts. However looking back most now see that MM was declining with Mug. and with Len. was spent
@ianbillen I agree with most of what you're saying, but it was Marvin who had things clearly stacked in his favor. Even in his best day he was never as quick as Ray and Leonard wasn't nearly as fast in this fight as he once was either. The bottom line is Leonard outsmarted and frustrated Marvin from the opening bell and never lost composure. Hey, I'll be the first to admit that Hagler is one of THE greatest middleweights of all time, but once again his ego and emotions played into this fight
Yes. Hagler "still" had things stacked in his favor going in...but in the ring he was "slow" and plodding. He was getting hit by shots he would of been able to evade in his younger years. Leonard hadn't lost his speed. It was still all there. Incredibly. When Ray "finally" sat down and asked Marvin for the fight Hagler's response was "laughter...you waited until I got old" according to Hagler. Ray noted to folks Hagler had lost speed and was getting hit more going into the fight.
@ianbillen Leonard's speed definately wasn't all there. He was still quick, but not nearly as quick as he once was. Hagler looked slow and plodding later in the bout because he was completely frustrated. Whether Hagler actually said that to Ray or not is purely speculative and Hagler showed no sign whatsover of any diminished skills going into this fight and everyone in his camp felt he would win this fight easily. In their prime, I'd take Ray again by unanimous decision. Just my opinion.
Your opinion is taken well & seriously. Hagler was frustrated and to me seemed as though he didn't have that fire going in quite as much as he did with Hearns. My "bitch" about the fight was that Ray was holding too much to be truly outboxing Hagler early. Would throw two punches and immediately grab/hold after landing a punch over and over instead of moving to avoid retaliation blows. He simply hugged him immediately. It halted the true outcome of the exchanges. I saw it a draw.
Now back to Ray Leonard... aside from my thinking Leonard waited until Hagler aged I will say Leonard fought magnificently during this fight in most ways (besides excessive holding during the first 5 rounds and at intervals fooling around versus actually fairly boxing). Besides this, Leonard was amazing and stunned most just by going the distance. Let alone that long lay-off and coming back straight for Hagler ...no tune-ups and making himself look THAT good!
@justentime77 you are spot on here ! nobody tipped sugar ray to win ( except me lol ) i alwys felt leonard had the speed to outbox him and win a decision ! even leonard said he would box him and 1 round at a time which is what he did ! and another thing hagler and his fans now mention it hould have been 15 rounds and smaller glove's !! well the reality is haglers fights with hearns and mugabi were 12 rounds also and the same gloves were worn by hagler for the mugabi fight ! lame exuses !!!
had to pressure leonard, take a few flurries to land that harder solid punch and and have Leonard back pedal the whole fight and that is exactly what he did.
1, I've watched the fight 100 times, score it with a judge's mind & agree with the blogs, boxing reporters & boxing community also agree that it's either a Split Decision in favor of Hagler or a Draw. I also feel the judges favored Leonard (for some reason) before the bell rang.
2. This was Hagler's (one of the best Middleweights ever) final bout & he takes a BS loss in good shape w/ a great performance. Very sad. He had the 2L-2D from 8-11 yrs b4.
I mean come on, one judge scored it 110-118!!! That's f'ing terrible!!! How could you say he only won 2 rounds!
But Hagler said in interviews he wanted to prove that he was one of the best ever to step into the ring, as if we all didn't know. I read & heard from Boxing experts that he planned for weeks b4 the fight that he'd start in an Orthodox stance, which hurt his score. But winning @ 33 y/o, a face full of scar tissue & 66 fights under his belt vs. a younger "Golden Boy" Leonard.
Now that was ALL RUNNING by Leonard. Mayweather moves to a strategic position and then sits down and sticks his opponents atleast. Leonard definately looked scared of haglers power and this was at 158!!!
I think Jones back in his almost super human speed days would have given Hagler a lot of trouble. I would absolutely love to see Hagler/Hopkins though!!
This shit was a catchweight fight at 158, a pussy move that Leonard also did to Hearns, forcing him to come in at 145 instead of 147. He also made Hagler use bigger gloves, have a bigger ring, and have it 12 rounds. Not worthy of the nickname Sugar Ray!
Joe Calzaghe wud've battered all those yanks of the 80's. Jus luk wot happened 2 Left hook Lacey. Sum mite say U can't mention Lacey in the same breath as Leonard,Hagler+Hearns. But U weren't sayin that til Calzaghe took the pis out of Lacey.
calzaghe has never beat any good fighters. lacey is garbage. lacey got killed by taylor, and taylor got killed by pavlik, abraham, froch. why won't joe fight ward, abraham, pascal, dawson, diacanu, bute? because he would get killed. joe was well handled. that is all!!!!!
ray leonard was one of the best fighters that ever live. power, speed, toughness, slickness, skill! he had it all. hagler was a warrior. joe can't be mentioned in the same conversation as those fighters!!!
Calzaghe defeated Lacy when he was at the top of his game. Most people thought Lacy would wipe the floor with Joe. Yes, Lacy got beat by Taylor but Lacy lost the will to fight and was goign to quit a few months before. Taylor is a shot fighter and is not the same fighter who beat Hopkins. It's like comparing the Ali who beat Liston to the Ali who lost to Berbick.
If Froch beat Pascal don't you think Joe would beat him as well or Bute who almost got killed against Adrade?
In saying that, Joe was not as protected as Sven Ottke was. He has to be given a bit more credit although I don't think he could beat the really big boys like Roy Jones in his prime or Nigel Benn or James Toney.
While I agree that Joe couldn't touch Hagler or Leonard, on another note I never believed the Leonard hype. I've just clicked on the Hagler-Leonard fight. I've not watched it since 1987 when I was disgusted at the Hagler robbery. I want to see if 22 years later I've changed my mind.
@kazzaflaz Calzaghe has never fought an elite boxer ever. He fought a washed up RJ and fought a close bout with a 40 year old Hopkins. Both guys would have destroyed Calzaghe in their prime. You can't compare Joe with Hagler, that's lunacy.
Love the Fantastic Four (Leonard, Duran, Hagler, Hearns) a really great era in boxing history since the Heavyweight division was boring thanks to Larry Holmes but got resurrected when Tyson came
Hagler spent his entire career trying to lure smaller men into the ring to fight him and when the last of the small men got into the ring he got owned in a fight that will forever haunt his legacy.
If he had gotten beat by Hearns then it still would have been an embarrassment but atleast Hearns was active and close to his prime,Leonard was a good five years past his prime with only one fight in five years.
the Leonard of 87 would never have beaten the monzons and hopkins but he beat hagler
This is reminiscent of De La Hoya vs Trinidad... or is De La Hoya vs Trinidad reminiscent of this...? Anyway, gave the 1st round to Leonard on better Boxing, great ring-generalship and cleaner shots! 1-0 for Leonard!
Nobody even asked for a Leonard-Lalonde fight! HE steered clear of Nunn the way he steered clear of Hagler in 82. he didnt have the right stuff nor the stomach to climb in with either man. that's why i cant respect him.
and the story you hear about hagler refusing a fight with Leonard, what can I say but whoever told you that is lying thru their teeth. There is a story told by Bob Arum ten years after the fight where Leoanrd spotted Hagler at a gathering and told Bob to ask Hagler if ...
Marvin was interested in another fight. ONLY from SRL! there are no depths he wont sink to. I for one am glad Hector scourged him for what he did at Baltimore in 82 and for his deception ofthe public with his "retirements".. an excuse he hid behind in order to put off his rivals. I cant believe so many were taken in by his excuse for retiring. How can u fight at age 40 with a damged eye and for the same reason, say you cant fight at 26? and he's fighting repeatedly after that!
Well if the comment to Arum was true I can only imagine it was light hearted for the age they both were - hardly sinking to low depths! Good for Camacho, good for Norris, they did what Hagler couldn't but I don't trawl all over youtube spouting hatred against them. Leonard had bigger names to fight at 26. He was pound for pound king then and Marvin just had to wait his turn albeit when Ray was ring-rusty and on the slide.
IF the comment was true? Do you choose to doubt becuz it puts your hero in a bad light? It's his fault the fight came off 5 years late to beging with. it's his fault there was no rematch. there's no hate involved when I say it becuz it's all true. if you are a leonard fan, you're going to turn it around and say it was Marvin that copped out. and again, it's not hate for someone to point out ray didnt have the balls to defend his title aginst a top ranked middleweight like Nunn
1. Didn't say I doubted it, I said it would have been light hearted. 2. Boxing News said Hagler didn't respond to rematch offer, not me. 3. Michael Nunn wouldn't have been a problem because Leonard beat a much better middleweight (Marvin Hagler).
You really think dried up over the hill Hagler of 87 was better than soon to be IBF champ Nunn? I doubt most people would admit to that. Mike was far more dangerous at contender status than Marvin at that point. Also, the only time I know of in which ray expressed interest in fighting Marvin was 10 yrs after their fight. Marvin waisted no time in trying to get a rematch. Leonard turned it down because sugar ray leonard doesnt give rematches.
Well in that case Leonard was only 2 years younger than Hagler and was pretty much dried up also (after a very tough career). Leonard gave a rematch to Hearns and a third fight to Duran which blows that analogy of yours away. Nunn was seriously dismantled by Toney so I doubt that he would have threatened Ray - but in reality Ray was a welterweight - destroying heavier fighters was just for fun.
leonard didnt have a tough career; he had a short career by choice. In reality you can only say he had two tough fights. Hagler had many tough fights going back to the year leonard turned pro. If anyone had the right to say he had a long tough career it was Hagler. he had 3 tough fights in 76, 2 more the following year, 4 more the next, two more the following year and so on because Hagler faced a broader variety of opposition. All Ray leonard had was hearns. Hagler mopped him up in 3
most of us dont consider 8 yrs in the future to be realistic when discussing rematches. Tommy had just been flattened but Ray didnt mind. Ray will take that kind of fight anytime!
Nunn-SRL: I dont recall Mike having been dismantled at the time. In fact, Mike DID the dismantling! So SRL beat a washed up Hagler. It would have been gr8 seeing him add a name like Nunn but he didnt have the right stuff to take it so he challenged Lalonde instead, a much easier and not highly respected opponent
destroyed heavier fighters? The only heavier fighter he ever destroyed was Lalonde-- for what that was worth.
I say for what it was worth becuz the added weight dont mean alot if they cant do nothing. Maybe that impresses people like u but it would mean more if he were to fight at his best weight against more capable fighters like Norris and Nunn.
People dont want to see garbage like Leonard and Lalonde, MMH 1987 becuz neither worth a shit. Lalonde cant fight and hagler's too slow
So why didn't Marvin come back and mix it with Toney and Nunn? Nunn v Toney is on here so go watch it if you dont believe me. Hagler wasn't washed up - he'd just had his most impressive fight of all against Mugabi. Apart from Leonard, Hearns and Duran he only fought Minter, Sibson, Roldan and Hamsho (twice). He didn't have an easy career but it is far from the hardest especially when his toughest fights were against lighter men. Leonard fought household names.
isnt it obvious? Who else you know that spent 7 years as champion? and you're trying to tell me marvin should e able to maintain the same form he had in earlier years when you can see the prgression or should I say Digression?
He wasnt at his most impressive vs Mugabi. That's just insane! Marvin took a beating and said after the bout he was ready for retirement. u dont know these things becuz you came onto the scne late. even before he fight hearns the writers were calling him a dinosaur
you got a lot to lean about hagler and I mean ALOT!!! What a thing to say "Why dont marvin come back and mix it up with Toney?"
Becuz Hagler's retirement was real; not contrived like Leonard's, the condescending prima donna coming back to fight like he's doing us all a favor by giving us shit fights. Toney became champ in 91. Hagler retired in 88 and you asking me why he dont fight him? Why you at it, why dont you just ask why dont Carlos Monzon fight him too? He's still alive at that point
Hearns was only half champ for 1 year! You going to tell me Tommy is a household name beating the likes of Pablo Baez who got himself an emergency top ten ranking on the same day the fight was sanctioned? Where do you get this "household name" crap from?
Is Wilfred Benitez a household name? Becuz Hamsho cleaned up on Mr. household name w/o half trying. Tommy couldnt even make 1 successful defense @ 160
and Leonard? Well, that would be asking too much. All he got to do is invite young Mike into the ring with him to dance.
Face facts shiftwork, you hiding behind the smokescreen that your boy didnt have what it takes to climb into the ring with Mike. There's no way around it. That's why you pull out the excuse "well, why didnt Hagler fight Micheal and Toney"
So far as everyone knows, Hagler was retired and Leonard was quite active (but no when it mattered) so common sense should tell u why.
Hagler retired because his ego couldn't take the beating he got from Ray. Blah blah or not that is a fact. The smokescreen is yours - we are here to talk about Hagler v Leonard and all you can talk about is Nunn, a fairly decent fighter. It's well known that the greatest fighters of all time are Ali, Robinson, Leonard, Armstrong and maybe Tyson (although prime Holmes woud have won). Hagler isn't there. Don't bother posting wafflle about off the topic crap. The topic is Leonard v Hagler. Who won?
okay then why is Hagler heard that he wants to retire after the Mugabi fight?
Like I said, you have a lot to learn about hagler. Watching his last 2 or 3 fights, you shouldnt assume you know so much about him.
Again, why didnt Ray just defend his title? Why discard your own title then skip over to face the biggest mediocrity in the sport and challenge him. Talking p4p in the 80s alone, hagler is at the top 4 x while to Leonard's one time therefore it's Hagler who ranks higher
In the 1999 Ring magazine poll, how come it was Leonard who came in 3rd for most oeverrated of all time while Hagler came in 4th greatest p4p in history. You got Ray Robinson, Ali, Duran, then Hagler. Roy Jones is there too. Pep, Greb, Louis. And you know what? Ray Leonard is nowhere to be found anywhere in the list. I'm not talking top 10, I'm talking that he's nowhere!\
So now what? You cant stand it when I bring up how Leonard failed to meet the challenges he should have taken. The fact is
Mike would have taken his head off but you dont like to think about it so you now you try to steer it back to "Hagler v Leonard" after you been talking Roy Jones and that worthless pile of crap Calzaghe.
If they fought ten times Ray couldnt handle him. It would be worse than the Norris fight where he played with the overrated media creation all nite. when it comes to the younger generation, it's a whole different story. Turns out he wasnt so tough when he wasnt involved in remedial boxing
I never mentioned Roy Jones sir, I never mentioned Calzaghe either. What I am mentioning is that Leonard defeated Hagler - I'm not interested in Nunn. The reason why I post on here is because it is about Hagler v Leonard. Why not defend the title? Leonard quoted in the after match interview said," I didn't want the title, I just wanted to beat him". Ray nowhere in the some poll, astonishing!! It must have been conducted by people like you. I mean if Hagler is 4th how could Ray be nowhere.
You mentioned Jones a few dozen times talking that shit. Why you lie so much for? You lie about everything. you try cover up everything that embarrasses leonard and wont go near the subject of Norris and what he did to him. Ray was heavily favored and Terry had no problem. it was supposed to be the other way around but srl just isnt good enough.
for u, picking on an old used up Hagler is all u want to talk about. u dont want to move on and say why Ray skip over Nunn for lalonde
so to answer your question the fans are smart and see thru the counterfeit like leonard. champions are supposed to defend the title-that's what champions do unless they're Ray Leonard, too scared to face a young up and comer
and if he wanted to beat Hagler then why didnt he get to him sooner while the man still had some life left in him?
That's why no one is stupid enough to nominate him for consideration,,becuz he aint worth a shit
The fans were smart to put Hagler 4th. They know what he's about. and so do the media-way back before you were born, nominating Hagler-in unison as BEST P4P on the planet 4 consecutive times! by KO and everyone else. And fans-the REAL fans know what Hagler has done. You werent even aware that Hagler won so many honors as a fighter did you? Like I said, you have a lot to learn about Hagler and watching his last two fights dont make u the authority u think u are
Now I realise that you are ill. I NEVER MENTIONED JONES! Show me where I did! Leonard fought Hagler when Hagler was at his peak after the tremendous Mugabi win. I'm nearly 52, how did Hagler do wo much before I was born??? The 'fans' (drunks and druggies) would put Hagler first because they (like you) do not appreciate talent, just thuggery. You should see your doctor mate.
my bad. You are most right! I must apologize to you.
Who is the one been talking all that shit about Roy then?
Damn I didnt know you were 52. You are older than me!
But still you cant fault the fan poll because they get everyone from all over the country. Ring magzine in a stroke of genius put it on. I wish they had put it on sooner but at least they do what KO and World Boxing dont do. And also it is not just the fans but the experts alike for four straight years have Hagler as #1
Well, I'm glad you're OK. But I never take too much notice of polls. We had one here (UK) and Oasis (crap kiddies pop group) were rated best band in the world AND worst band in the world in the same polls. When I said you are ill I didn't mean anything - it was only a 'get back at you' comment. Take care.
Calzaghe have his moments but you know a lot of fighters do. I seen fighters with ugly records do numbers on people once they hit their peak. I remember Pipino Cuevas not only improve but become a real terror to anyone who fight him. as tho he made a deal with the devil. he was the man to avoid if you dont want your face broken, your ribs caved in. He leave more men in crushing agony than any other fighter I've seen. But after 4 years his time was up and he turn back to a pumpkin
Calzaghe did have some good fights I agree, but he was promoted by Frank Warren who is brilliant at getting a fighter to the top by the easy route. I fear he is going to do the same with Amir Khan at lightweight who won a version of the title last weekend. I know the name Pipino Cuevas but I don't know much about him.
@shiftwork Then you are immediately disqualified from commenting on anything in relation to boxing. If you think Calzaghe is 'shit', you are either slightly retarded or being sarcastic. I hope it's the latter.
@espanolporaplicacion No. Of course he isn't shit. But he is vastly overrated. Frank Warren (after the bust up with Joe) was quoted as saying that in his career Joe 'avoided' around 12 fights. Of course that might not be true but I still think that Joe had by comparison a fairly easy and chosen career.
fighting Mike would have been good for Marvin but I dont see no one wanting it. everyone want to see Leoanrd beat Hagler but Ray dont got the nerve to try for it. How much money you think Marvin going to get with Mike? Becuz there is no money with the lightheavies. even the unification of 1983 between Mike and Dwight get maybe 2 million apiece?
Hagler's only flaw came in his last fight, the loss to Leonard. He wanted Leonard almost too badly and was quite cocky, outwardly, going into the fight. Uncharacteristically, Hagler wasted the first 6 rounds trying to intimidate and mess with Leonard; he should have known better. Hagler came on strong the last 9 rounds, but it wasn't enough. Hagler said he won, but I think he just couldn't bear to face up to the fact that he'd blown the fight by clowning during those early rounds.
i think Hagler was shot. otherwise he would have continued his career and won back the title. Marvin should have used his jab more the way he did in round 8; he could have picked up at least 7 or 8 rounds, rested and let Sugar have a couple but might have still gotten robbed by the judges
Man what a great fight. Very close. Many say hagler should have won, but in the end it was sugar ray that came out on top. Personally i think the judges made a good call.
Who won the fight? Hagler. Why? He landed the more punches, whereas Leonard bluffed his punches to impress the judges. It was extremely close but I think Leonard's ego influenced the judges just like Ali's did in his first fight with Norton (where he was avoided on of the judges decison but only lost by split decision) and in the third fight where I think he lost to Norton.
hagler was one of the best, if not the best middleweight of all time...but, sugar ray clearly beat him...boxed smarter and wore hagler out.......doesnt matter if you run 15 rounds....a win is a win.....
No, Im a boxing fan and a true fan of a great boxer in Hagler. Im not sayin Leonard wasnt good, but if he clearly won, why are people still debating the decision 22 yrs later? So you can say Im a boxing fan as well as a hagler fan because Hagler was a great boxer.
It was a great fight, but lets be real. Leonard ran from this man for 15 rds. when he stood flat-footed with marvelous, he got nailed. Hagler landed more of the solid shots. Leonard won because of those bitchy flurries at the end of some rounds to make him look flashy. Im a hagler fan, and he did beat leonard, hearns, duran, would have beaten benitez, roy jones, bernard hopkins. Hagler could switch to southpaw and turn a boxing match into a street fight. I just never liked leonard. never.
This was a close fight! I persnally though Haglar won it. But I gtta tell you all this! Knowing the 10 point must system I did have Leonard winning 115-114 only because of the fact that Hagler did hold back in lots of ways. If he did not hold back then I would have to say that Hagler would have won easy winning 9 of the 1rounds.
sugar won this fight, i hate peple who say he didnt, he won da first 4 rounds, and da last 2, dats alredy 6 rounds won, he also prob won the 10th, the rest of da middle round wer mostly for hagler, but sum wer close enough for it to be sugar. also, wat did peple expect from sugar, to fight hagler toe to toe, we all kno hagler would hav won if dat waz da case, so did sugar, so he decided instead to outbox him with movment. boxings not all about fighting the same way, its bout finding a way to win
If Hagler was so confident that he could outbox Leonard, or knock him out, then why didn't he do it? He had 12 rounds to do what he needed to do and he failed. The simple fact of the matter is that Leonard imposed his will over Hagler. You impose your will over your opponent, you win. Hagler knows this happened, but will never admit it. Instead he makes excuses. "He ran", "It's Vegas". "He never hurt me". That doesn't change the fact the he outboxed you, Marvin.
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it was a sorry fight.. leonard finally decided to fight a past his prime hagler after he just had a war with mugabi. he avoided hagler adn pryor his whole career and when he finally fights hagler he runs the entire time doing the last second pitty pat flurry crap. hagler landed the harder punches and won the fight.. hagler was robbed and that is a disgrace to boxing
I meant that by the time Ray called him out there was nothing left but a shell of Hagler. Make no mistake: Ray FEARED Hagler. It was sad fo me to have to watch Hagler still there at the end of 12 rounds with a man he once could have destroyed in ten seconds
Really? He was just coming off some great wins and was still an amazing fighter, don't you think? I haven't heard many people saying Hagler was way past his peak here. Let's not forget Ray was coming off a long lay off and had lost some of his skills too. With all due respect Ray Leonard was way to skilled to have been "destroyed" by any fighter he was beatable but I don't see anyone destroying him in the first round. I respect your opinion but I respectfully disagree.
no, he was too slow. he had some good wins later on but wasnt the fighter he was earlier when he dominated. I also dont believe leonard could have held his own with Marvin for very long. He's not in that class and his chin wouldnt have held up to Hagler's assault. No one could keep pace with Marvin. Hearns found that out. And Ray knew it too so he avoided him with his excuse until he could safely continue his career in the last couple years of the decade
Hagler never had the hand speed of Leonard and he was 33 which isn't that old. He was a betting favorite in this fight and was a more feared and respected fighter in 87 then at any other time in his career. Few to no boxing experts regard Marvin Hagler as a better boxer then Ray Leonard. When Leonard took this fight Hagler was coming off the best wins of his life and was the champion of the world and considered the best middleweight. Leonard was a better fighter than Hagler, period.
The "experts" say a lot of things. The experts like WIlliam Nack said in SI that Norris-leonard fight was 116-112 and didnt bother to discuss the details of the fight. See what I'm getting at?
So when it comes to the "experts" I just take what they say with a grain of salt
Dont get me wrong. I think Ray's great but his chin would NEVER stand up to what Hagler could dish out if he decided to really lay into him.
So that's why I'm saying the fight would have been short had they fought earlier.
Want more proof? 3 years before the Hagler fight Ray came out to fight someone named Kevin Howard who was much smaller physically and put him on the floor. I just dont think it's realistic for someone of your intelligence to say Ray could have stood up to Marvin or Tommy at the time.
Tommy would have knocked him out in 1984. Easily! I hate to think the damage marvin would have meted out
What biased nonsense. Firstly Leonard here is a blown up welterweight who beat a great middleweight fair and square on the night. Secondly you ASSUME that Hagler is shot after the fantastic Mugabi battle. Thirdly Marvin refused to step up a weight himself to fight Michael Spinks in the early 80's. Don't get me wrong - Hagler is a supreme boxer but he didn't like to take too many chances.
It's lucky he didn't. The Leonard that Hagler fought had at least 3 years ring rust apart from the Kevin Howard fight where he didn't look at all convincing. "Boxing News" said that after their fight, Leonard had asked Hagler to challenge him this time since Leonard had challenged Hagler for the first fight. Leonard promised next time to KO Marvin. Haglers challenge never came . . .
listen, boxing news is covering for his ass. its normal. you should see what william nack say of the Norris leonard fight. he dont mention the butt whupin and say "I had it 116-112"
Dont believe the bullshit!! they all covering for him since day 1. i was there a week after Jim Hill ask Ray about Hagler and the title. it come from ray's mouth that he want no more-just 1 fight. but it was a cop out from defending tthe title or a rematch. u know what he go one to do right? so u know he lying!
Leonard said in the after fight interview "I didn't want the title, I just wanted to beat him". But it wouldn't have mattered because if I remember correctly Marvin retired and moved to Italy shortly afterwards. That being the case no rematch would have been possible. I'm sorry if I come on here sounding like I'm anti-Hagler. I'm not, Hagler is fantastic. I just wish he'd moved up and fought (and very possibly beat) Michael Spinks, instead of just fighting the top welterweights.
But not before Hagler tried for a rematch. I also dont believe Leonards claims "I just wanted to beat him"
Becuz he didnt say nothing about wanting lalonde. So why fight lalonde if 1) Ray only wanted one fight and 2) Is further risking his eye for much less money against an opponent of such low status?
You see? His claims are false and fall apart when once you dissect them. the more you try to explain one thing, you got to try explaining something else. one big phony story from the start
You're only using part of the quote. Ray said he didn't want HIS TITLE, he only wanted to beat him. He did not say he wouldn't ever fight again. So he fought and beat a dangerous, hard punching world champion in Donny Lalonde. Maybe he didn't want his title either, just to beat him. Who knows? It doesn't matter. The story I heard was that Hagler didn't want a Leonard rematch, but I don't think that Hagler would chance losing to Leonard twice!
When you turn away from a rematch and won't defend your newly "won" title, what are we supposed to think?
And I wouldnt describe Donny as dangerous and hard punching but more like anonymous, plodding, slow, mediocre, stiff.
Let's cut the crap. This guy was picking his opponents; it's so obvious! In stead of taking the Hagler fight back when it really mattered, he punked out. He punked out in 82; he punked out in 84 and went back into retirement.
where was this fight? is this the madison square garden?
NiKoEb 3 months ago
Caesars Palace in Las Vegas!
2brostom 3 months ago
10-9 Leonard
1EPowerUp 5 months ago
after finishing reading about this fight and feud, i am going to watch this entire fight right now and score it myself. ill give my score for each round in each part, starting with round 1 probably above this one. yes, im bored.
1EPowerUp 5 months ago
This is similar to Maidana vs Morales. Morales being Leonard, the underdog who was on the comeback trail and proved all odds wrong.
MannyMMA 6 months ago
sugar is the man!!
galeofdarkness1993 6 months ago
it was a fixed fight, marvin was the best. i saw that fight
manolo1130 9 months ago
Comment removed
manolo1130 9 months ago
I just wish Mayweather would take a lesson out of SRL's book, come out of retirement and beat Pac.
laistar 11 months ago
Run Ray, Run......lol.
billyfan8305 11 months ago
When Leonard battled himself out of that corner and held his own ground....uh.....that's RESPECT on my part!! That gave Leonard the extra point he needed!! LEGENDARY FIGHT!! Boxing's never been the same!!!
TheHabsfan1993 11 months ago
when i watched this has a boy i had hagler winning but after watching again there is no doubt leonard won this fight for hagler to have won this fight you would have to give him every close round. but great fight and i still would have liked hagler to win
fandingo69 1 year ago
My opinion? Hagler won, just.
But hell, as jambapunks said 'both great fighters'.
Was a close fight but I still think the judges were swayed by Sugar's late flurries in rounds he had lost.
Furiouswindbottom 1 year ago
this is when boxing was BOXING!!!
cfcnlr 1 year ago 3
I thought leonard retired only to wait and see the tear of hagler
WLuico 1 year ago
What a comeback!! No one else has ever made a comeback and gone for the champion without a few warmup fights and done this well.
However, I have Hagler winning 115-114!
primeboxers 1 year ago
1982-1986 SRL was chillin eating hot wings, chasing women getting drunk every day while Hagler was in great shape fighting on a regular basis. And Ray comes back to beat him. Hagler doesnt deserve a rematch for allowing that to happen. No wonder why he moved to italy. 40% of SRL beat Hagler
bscottdp 1 second ago
bscottdp 1 year ago
@bscottdp lol you forgot he was doing cocain and shitting on his wife.
InternationalBoy 1 year ago
they both were the best
1977darkknight 1 year ago
this was a big show!!! you could see hagler not traying to hurt sugar......big bucks brother,BIG BUCKS!!
tatojunco 1 year ago
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Why do people always start talking about what wasn't a good idea after a fight? At the time of the fight I never heard anyone say Haglers gonna lose, becuse he is caving in to all Leonards demands. They were all like Leonard doesn't stand a chance. I don't know what fight you were watching, but I scored in favor of Leonard 7rds. to 4rds and 1 even 116-113.
kingq01 1 year ago
Beer, Hot Wings, Women and retired for 5 years. Comes back and beats the undisputed 160 pound champion. Now thats a LEGEND
PPl act like this was PRIME SRL. 1979 SRL who knocked out Andy Price would KO the 1987 version of himself inside 5 rounds.
1979 SRL knocks out 1987 SRL inside 5 rounds
bscottdp 1 year ago
@bscottdp
"1979 SRL knocks out 1987 SRL inside 5 rounds"
No middleweight or welterweight could knock out this version of Ray Leonard. I understand your point a young Ray at welter at in his early 20s was faster than this 31 year old middleweight version but he was still damn good.
shire2005 1 year ago
@shire2005
I dissagree on both counts. The 87 version was quite superb, probably superior to the 79 version. Frankly, I wasnt impressed with the 79 version exept by his speed. However to say that he could not be stopped, you are in SERIOUS ERROR! What about prime Hagler? I think hagler wouldve knocked him cold early. Also Micheal Nunn. One mistake from Ray and Mike would take him out in the blink of an eye (ala S. Kalambay). I also think Roy Jones & J. Jackson would do the evil deed
Piglatinsuperstar 1 year ago
@bscottdp
he was taking on a shell. That doesnt make you a legend! A legend wouldve said "Okay let's get it on NOW", not in 5 years!!!
And Hagler WAS NOT UNDISPUTED Champ in 87! Check the tape during the intros. it clearly says "WBC middleweight champ". This cheap imitation doesnt even begin to compare with the dominant champion that had Ray Leonard quivering with his head in the early 80s, too scared to make waves and make an appearance for more than one month in 1984.
Piglatinsuperstar 1 year ago
Weather Hagler won or not its time to educate young boxing fans. Ray Leonard from 1982-1986 was chilling drinking corona and eating hot wings. Meaning he was retired. Marvin Hagler was fighting Duran 1983, Hamsho (twice) 1984, Hearns 1985, Mugabi 1986 and Hagler was undisputed 160 pound champion.
Bottom line is SRL went from drinking Corona, drugs, hot wings, ( INACTIVE) for 5 years and was like YO can i fight Hagler. And the fight ended up close. Now thats a BOXING LEGEND
bscottdp 1 year ago
@bscottdp
Andy price! Who the FUCK was ANDY Price? Andy got two losses in 1977 and two more in 78. What does one more loss - to Ray leonard mean? it dont mean shit!
If your man was half the fighter you say he was then he would have no problems with younger fighters the way he did in the Norris fight when he was SUPPOSED to WIN. Not only did he not win, he got slaughtered! Embarrassed! Humiliated!
That's what happens when you're overrated and go around picking fights with the wrong guy!
Piglatinsuperstar 1 year ago
Floys record looks better because SRL fought past his prime.; Remember Ray had losses to Camacho and Norris past his peak. Also Floyd has never faced a fighter the caliver of 1980 Duran. Lets keep in mind Castillo actually won there 1st fight and he aint on Durans level.
Bottom line is this - At 147 pounds Floyd won a close split decision over past prime Oscar and your putting him over prime SRL. LOL
Floyds 2010 Tommy Hearns is Manny Pacquiao and what is Floyd doing? RUNNING like a PUNK
bscottdp 1 year ago
@bscottdp I would actually say the 2010 Tommy Hearns would be Paul Williams. Both tall and powerful, and throw a lot of shots.
itskpmofo 1 year ago
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@bscottdp I would actually say the 2010 Tommy Hearns would be Paul Williams. Both tall and powerful, and throw a lot of shots.
itskpmofo 1 year ago
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@bscottdp I would actually say the 2010 Tommy Hearns would be Paul Williams. Both tall and powerful, and throw a lot of shots.
itskpmofo 1 year ago
@bscottdp
Floyd is same age as Leonard but the difference is Floyd keeps winning while Ray is an incompentent boob when faced with younger faster opponents like Norris
remember? Camacho was past his prime too
Floyd is way better than that weakling media creation
Piglatinsuperstar 1 year ago
I think Floyd Maywheather Jr. is way worse than Leonard. Leonard is so tame compared to the mess Maywheather does these days.
Cezanne 1 year ago
@Cezanne WHAT?! Mayweather is "way worse". Floyd has beaten top competition on his way to being the pound-for-pound king... Leonard only won 5 belts 'cause he beat bums in his last few fights. Look at their records and you tell me whose better? Leonard - 35 wins, 3 losses, 1 draw. Floyd Mayweather "The greatest of all-time" - 41 wins, 0 losses, 0 draws. Floyd is on another level... too fast... I saw him in a training video throwing 6638 punches in 5 MINUTES... that's BAD!
NazhitsREALLYHARD 1 year ago
@NazhitsREALLYHARD the xylocaine man
heroxer 1 year ago
Very little hit Hagler in the opening round and thats how it was to be throughout... Leonard looking to impress the judges with flashy combinations of little substance.
NazhitsREALLYHARD 1 year ago
@NazhitsREALLYHARD If Leonard hit with no substance then Hagler should have easily stopped Leonard early. I think Leonard was harder to fight than Hagler thought.
Cezanne 1 year ago
@Cezanne Yeah Leonard hit with no substance because in the first 3 rounds he just coasted them as Hagler gave them away. Those 3 rounds cost him the fight and his championship. Had Hagler not abandoned his Southpaw style he would've been too slick for Leonard.
NazhitsREALLYHARD 1 year ago
What a sad event in boxing history. Hagler was by far superior to Leonard, and he clearly won this fight.
jtrubilla 1 year ago
@jtrubilla
I agree with you totally..this is another example of corruption in the boxing world.
Leonard was a media darling and kissed ass, where Hagler kissed no ones ass and paid for it in the end.
Tombstone1959 1 year ago
If i was scoring this fight, it's a draw! Both fighters were pretty even early, then Hagler took control during the middle rounds, and Leonard dominated the end, even though he was tired.
scoot1105 1 year ago
Leonard clearly won the fight by points. However he did not fight the way he should have in order to prove he was better fighter than Hagler. He knew he wasn't better thab Hagler.
karlito5757 1 year ago
Despite all the arguments about this fight I just wish boxing was like this today.
preludin1 1 year ago
Different times...Boxing was then blessed with superstars with different styles and personalities...Now everything is so hyped...
essertpitay 1 year ago
Once again, Ray was out of the game for several years, never took a single tune up fight, went up in weight and fought the most menacing Middleweight in recent history! The advantage was all Marvin's... and he simply got out smarted and beat!
justentime77 1 year ago 15
@justentime77
Your right on many aspects but when you say Hagler was "menacing" at this time is wrong. Hagler "was" menacing. Hearns and Mugabi fights took much out of Marvin. He already had a pretty tough career & those two fights took alot out of Marvin. During the Magabi fight he was getting hit more than he should of normally. Ray noted this and also stated how Hagler had lost a lot of speed. He was "beat up" by the time these two fought. Hagler wanted to retire but couldn't pass this up.
ianbillen 1 year ago
@ianbillen
As well you can see Hagler just "plodding" along during rounds 9 onward. His hand speed was in the gutter. Age+A hard career-+ finally those two mega wars with Hearns and Mugabi left Hagler spent. Sure he "looked" in great shape as always ...and he was. However the speed, a bit of reflexes, his endurance and even his some of punching power were suffering by this fight. You can just tell. He wasn't what he was. During early years, when Leonard was active he wanted no part of Hagler.
ianbillen 1 year ago
@ianbillen I think Haglers ego hurt him in this fight as much as anything. He'd say things like "I'm faster than Ray and I can outbox him if I need to". Nobody and I mean NOBODY gave Leonard a chance in this fight and I didn't hear a single person say that Hagler was SPENT in any way prior to the bout. Not one commentator, sports analyst..no one. I was on a huge construction job at the time and I was the only person who picked Leonard and I said if Marvin doesn't get a knock out, Ray wins easily
justentime77 1 year ago
@justentime77
Your right. He wanted to try and outbox Leonard versus trying to go in slugging like he was inadequate against a true boxer. He didn't want to win like that. He wanted to go out like he was just as skilled as the great Leoneard. But his talents had deterioated. Your right ...nobody saw Leonard winning. Your also right ... Nodoby saw Hagler as spent at the time. Folks thought Leonard was nuts. However looking back most now see that MM was declining with Mug. and with Len. was spent
ianbillen 1 year ago
@ianbillen I agree with most of what you're saying, but it was Marvin who had things clearly stacked in his favor. Even in his best day he was never as quick as Ray and Leonard wasn't nearly as fast in this fight as he once was either. The bottom line is Leonard outsmarted and frustrated Marvin from the opening bell and never lost composure. Hey, I'll be the first to admit that Hagler is one of THE greatest middleweights of all time, but once again his ego and emotions played into this fight
justentime77 1 year ago
@justentime77
Yes. Hagler "still" had things stacked in his favor going in...but in the ring he was "slow" and plodding. He was getting hit by shots he would of been able to evade in his younger years. Leonard hadn't lost his speed. It was still all there. Incredibly. When Ray "finally" sat down and asked Marvin for the fight Hagler's response was "laughter...you waited until I got old" according to Hagler. Ray noted to folks Hagler had lost speed and was getting hit more going into the fight.
ianbillen 1 year ago
@ianbillen Leonard's speed definately wasn't all there. He was still quick, but not nearly as quick as he once was. Hagler looked slow and plodding later in the bout because he was completely frustrated. Whether Hagler actually said that to Ray or not is purely speculative and Hagler showed no sign whatsover of any diminished skills going into this fight and everyone in his camp felt he would win this fight easily. In their prime, I'd take Ray again by unanimous decision. Just my opinion.
justentime77 1 year ago
@justentime77
Your opinion is taken well & seriously. Hagler was frustrated and to me seemed as though he didn't have that fire going in quite as much as he did with Hearns. My "bitch" about the fight was that Ray was holding too much to be truly outboxing Hagler early. Would throw two punches and immediately grab/hold after landing a punch over and over instead of moving to avoid retaliation blows. He simply hugged him immediately. It halted the true outcome of the exchanges. I saw it a draw.
ianbillen 1 year ago
Respond to this video...
Now back to Ray Leonard... aside from my thinking Leonard waited until Hagler aged I will say Leonard fought magnificently during this fight in most ways (besides excessive holding during the first 5 rounds and at intervals fooling around versus actually fairly boxing). Besides this, Leonard was amazing and stunned most just by going the distance. Let alone that long lay-off and coming back straight for Hagler ...no tune-ups and making himself look THAT good!
ianbillen 1 year ago
@justentime77 you are spot on here ! nobody tipped sugar ray to win ( except me lol ) i alwys felt leonard had the speed to outbox him and win a decision ! even leonard said he would box him and 1 round at a time which is what he did ! and another thing hagler and his fans now mention it hould have been 15 rounds and smaller glove's !! well the reality is haglers fights with hearns and mugabi were 12 rounds also and the same gloves were worn by hagler for the mugabi fight ! lame exuses !!!
sweetassugar69 1 year ago
@jimpurdie of course he would and that's why Hagler is one of the greatest of all-time.
xsCrApPybXx 2 years ago
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Judge the theatrics Leonard wins.
Judge the fight Hagler wins.
Haglers style: The slower harder puncher
had to pressure leonard, take a few flurries to land that harder solid punch and and have Leonard back pedal the whole fight and that is exactly what he did.
It was judged by dancing with the stars.
JohnPaul7771 2 years ago
I hate this fight's outcome for 2 reasons.
1, I've watched the fight 100 times, score it with a judge's mind & agree with the blogs, boxing reporters & boxing community also agree that it's either a Split Decision in favor of Hagler or a Draw. I also feel the judges favored Leonard (for some reason) before the bell rang.
2. This was Hagler's (one of the best Middleweights ever) final bout & he takes a BS loss in good shape w/ a great performance. Very sad. He had the 2L-2D from 8-11 yrs b4.
tftmc 2 years ago
I mean come on, one judge scored it 110-118!!! That's f'ing terrible!!! How could you say he only won 2 rounds!
But Hagler said in interviews he wanted to prove that he was one of the best ever to step into the ring, as if we all didn't know. I read & heard from Boxing experts that he planned for weeks b4 the fight that he'd start in an Orthodox stance, which hurt his score. But winning @ 33 y/o, a face full of scar tissue & 66 fights under his belt vs. a younger "Golden Boy" Leonard.
tftmc 2 years ago
Now that was ALL RUNNING by Leonard. Mayweather moves to a strategic position and then sits down and sticks his opponents atleast. Leonard definately looked scared of haglers power and this was at 158!!!
Latenightactor 2 years ago
hagler wouldve destroyed calzaghe and im british ,also hagler wouldve beat hopkins.toney and jones jr at middle.
jimpurdie 2 years ago
I think Jones back in his almost super human speed days would have given Hagler a lot of trouble. I would absolutely love to see Hagler/Hopkins though!!
willsworld01 2 years ago
This shit was a catchweight fight at 158, a pussy move that Leonard also did to Hearns, forcing him to come in at 145 instead of 147. He also made Hagler use bigger gloves, have a bigger ring, and have it 12 rounds. Not worthy of the nickname Sugar Ray!
lorenzodemedici1 2 years ago
i agree with eveything but the catchweight part
qwillnum5421 2 years ago
@lorenzodemedici1 hagler could of said no. it was just that easy.
InternationalBoy 1 year ago
your crazy dude , Calzaghe is good but not touching Hagler , Duran , Sugar ray , or Hearns ..
westside159 2 years ago
Joe Calzaghe wud've battered all those yanks of the 80's. Jus luk wot happened 2 Left hook Lacey. Sum mite say U can't mention Lacey in the same breath as Leonard,Hagler+Hearns. But U weren't sayin that til Calzaghe took the pis out of Lacey.
kazzaflaz 2 years ago
calzaghe has never beat any good fighters. lacey is garbage. lacey got killed by taylor, and taylor got killed by pavlik, abraham, froch. why won't joe fight ward, abraham, pascal, dawson, diacanu, bute? because he would get killed. joe was well handled. that is all!!!!!
rhlaprise 2 years ago
ray leonard was one of the best fighters that ever live. power, speed, toughness, slickness, skill! he had it all. hagler was a warrior. joe can't be mentioned in the same conversation as those fighters!!!
rhlaprise 2 years ago
Calzaghe defeated Lacy when he was at the top of his game. Most people thought Lacy would wipe the floor with Joe. Yes, Lacy got beat by Taylor but Lacy lost the will to fight and was goign to quit a few months before. Taylor is a shot fighter and is not the same fighter who beat Hopkins. It's like comparing the Ali who beat Liston to the Ali who lost to Berbick.
If Froch beat Pascal don't you think Joe would beat him as well or Bute who almost got killed against Adrade?
jamdowner 2 years ago
In saying that, Joe was not as protected as Sven Ottke was. He has to be given a bit more credit although I don't think he could beat the really big boys like Roy Jones in his prime or Nigel Benn or James Toney.
While I agree that Joe couldn't touch Hagler or Leonard, on another note I never believed the Leonard hype. I've just clicked on the Hagler-Leonard fight. I've not watched it since 1987 when I was disgusted at the Hagler robbery. I want to see if 22 years later I've changed my mind.
jamdowner 2 years ago
wow you are a moron
YouWereTheWooorst 2 years ago
poor guy, u like calzaghe only because you are a british, THATS the difference, hearn sugar ray and hagler are still known and loved in all the world
mulatomboxe 2 years ago
@kazzaflaz Calzaghe has never fought an elite boxer ever. He fought a washed up RJ and fought a close bout with a 40 year old Hopkins. Both guys would have destroyed Calzaghe in their prime. You can't compare Joe with Hagler, that's lunacy.
NeoOsiris19 2 years ago
LOL Lacey? Roy Jones embarassed Lacey prior to his fight with Calzaghe so whats your point?
colombiaje 2 years ago
One of the best fight´s ever. Sugar ray leonard proved that speed beats power, all the time.
sugarrayspeed 2 years ago
but remember bruh sugar had hella power too...
oakbayboy510 2 years ago
Oh yes! He had. Superb boxer!.
sugarrayspeed 2 years ago
not all the time but most of the time
carlosharris 2 years ago
Love the Fantastic Four (Leonard, Duran, Hagler, Hearns) a really great era in boxing history since the Heavyweight division was boring thanks to Larry Holmes but got resurrected when Tyson came
TheJacksonsTriumph 2 years ago
If dominating is boring and knocking out nobodys is exciting(Tyson) then yea.
beasy1234 2 years ago
Hagler spent his entire career trying to lure smaller men into the ring to fight him and when the last of the small men got into the ring he got owned in a fight that will forever haunt his legacy.
If he had gotten beat by Hearns then it still would have been an embarrassment but atleast Hearns was active and close to his prime,Leonard was a good five years past his prime with only one fight in five years.
the Leonard of 87 would never have beaten the monzons and hopkins but he beat hagler
syrandon 2 years ago
Haglar was a beast. Leonard's movement all night paid off.
TheRenegadeAssassin 2 years ago
This was a masterpiece. 115-114 Leonard.
007rocksalotmann 2 years ago
This is reminiscent of De La Hoya vs Trinidad... or is De La Hoya vs Trinidad reminiscent of this...? Anyway, gave the 1st round to Leonard on better Boxing, great ring-generalship and cleaner shots! 1-0 for Leonard!
D3TOX3R 2 years ago
yeah de la hoya beat trinidad
AZTEC1904 2 years ago
leonard is a b***h he kept running away from hagler epecially in the first round and hagler blocked every punch.
cbking94 2 years ago
Nobody even asked for a Leonard-Lalonde fight! HE steered clear of Nunn the way he steered clear of Hagler in 82. he didnt have the right stuff nor the stomach to climb in with either man. that's why i cant respect him.
and the story you hear about hagler refusing a fight with Leonard, what can I say but whoever told you that is lying thru their teeth. There is a story told by Bob Arum ten years after the fight where Leoanrd spotted Hagler at a gathering and told Bob to ask Hagler if ...
Piglatinsuperstar 2 years ago
Marvin was interested in another fight. ONLY from SRL! there are no depths he wont sink to. I for one am glad Hector scourged him for what he did at Baltimore in 82 and for his deception ofthe public with his "retirements".. an excuse he hid behind in order to put off his rivals. I cant believe so many were taken in by his excuse for retiring. How can u fight at age 40 with a damged eye and for the same reason, say you cant fight at 26? and he's fighting repeatedly after that!
Piglatinsuperstar 2 years ago
Well if the comment to Arum was true I can only imagine it was light hearted for the age they both were - hardly sinking to low depths! Good for Camacho, good for Norris, they did what Hagler couldn't but I don't trawl all over youtube spouting hatred against them. Leonard had bigger names to fight at 26. He was pound for pound king then and Marvin just had to wait his turn albeit when Ray was ring-rusty and on the slide.
shiftwork 2 years ago
IF the comment was true? Do you choose to doubt becuz it puts your hero in a bad light? It's his fault the fight came off 5 years late to beging with. it's his fault there was no rematch. there's no hate involved when I say it becuz it's all true. if you are a leonard fan, you're going to turn it around and say it was Marvin that copped out. and again, it's not hate for someone to point out ray didnt have the balls to defend his title aginst a top ranked middleweight like Nunn
Piglatinsuperstar 2 years ago
1. Didn't say I doubted it, I said it would have been light hearted. 2. Boxing News said Hagler didn't respond to rematch offer, not me. 3. Michael Nunn wouldn't have been a problem because Leonard beat a much better middleweight (Marvin Hagler).
shiftwork 2 years ago
You really think dried up over the hill Hagler of 87 was better than soon to be IBF champ Nunn? I doubt most people would admit to that. Mike was far more dangerous at contender status than Marvin at that point. Also, the only time I know of in which ray expressed interest in fighting Marvin was 10 yrs after their fight. Marvin waisted no time in trying to get a rematch. Leonard turned it down because sugar ray leonard doesnt give rematches.
PS: Mike would have creamed Ray with ease
Piglatinsuperstar 2 years ago
Well in that case Leonard was only 2 years younger than Hagler and was pretty much dried up also (after a very tough career). Leonard gave a rematch to Hearns and a third fight to Duran which blows that analogy of yours away. Nunn was seriously dismantled by Toney so I doubt that he would have threatened Ray - but in reality Ray was a welterweight - destroying heavier fighters was just for fun.
PS Maybe at Leonards age he would, so what?
shiftwork 2 years ago
leonard didnt have a tough career; he had a short career by choice. In reality you can only say he had two tough fights. Hagler had many tough fights going back to the year leonard turned pro. If anyone had the right to say he had a long tough career it was Hagler. he had 3 tough fights in 76, 2 more the following year, 4 more the next, two more the following year and so on because Hagler faced a broader variety of opposition. All Ray leonard had was hearns. Hagler mopped him up in 3
Piglatinsuperstar 2 years ago
most of us dont consider 8 yrs in the future to be realistic when discussing rematches. Tommy had just been flattened but Ray didnt mind. Ray will take that kind of fight anytime!
Nunn-SRL: I dont recall Mike having been dismantled at the time. In fact, Mike DID the dismantling! So SRL beat a washed up Hagler. It would have been gr8 seeing him add a name like Nunn but he didnt have the right stuff to take it so he challenged Lalonde instead, a much easier and not highly respected opponent
Piglatinsuperstar 2 years ago
destroyed heavier fighters? The only heavier fighter he ever destroyed was Lalonde-- for what that was worth.
I say for what it was worth becuz the added weight dont mean alot if they cant do nothing. Maybe that impresses people like u but it would mean more if he were to fight at his best weight against more capable fighters like Norris and Nunn.
People dont want to see garbage like Leonard and Lalonde, MMH 1987 becuz neither worth a shit. Lalonde cant fight and hagler's too slow
Piglatinsuperstar 2 years ago
So why didn't Marvin come back and mix it with Toney and Nunn? Nunn v Toney is on here so go watch it if you dont believe me. Hagler wasn't washed up - he'd just had his most impressive fight of all against Mugabi. Apart from Leonard, Hearns and Duran he only fought Minter, Sibson, Roldan and Hamsho (twice). He didn't have an easy career but it is far from the hardest especially when his toughest fights were against lighter men. Leonard fought household names.
shiftwork 2 years ago
isnt it obvious? Who else you know that spent 7 years as champion? and you're trying to tell me marvin should e able to maintain the same form he had in earlier years when you can see the prgression or should I say Digression?
He wasnt at his most impressive vs Mugabi. That's just insane! Marvin took a beating and said after the bout he was ready for retirement. u dont know these things becuz you came onto the scne late. even before he fight hearns the writers were calling him a dinosaur
Piglatinsuperstar 2 years ago
you got a lot to lean about hagler and I mean ALOT!!! What a thing to say "Why dont marvin come back and mix it up with Toney?"
Becuz Hagler's retirement was real; not contrived like Leonard's, the condescending prima donna coming back to fight like he's doing us all a favor by giving us shit fights. Toney became champ in 91. Hagler retired in 88 and you asking me why he dont fight him? Why you at it, why dont you just ask why dont Carlos Monzon fight him too? He's still alive at that point
Piglatinsuperstar 2 years ago
"leonard fought household names-blah blah blah!"
Boy you sure got me on THAT ONE!!
Hearns was only half champ for 1 year! You going to tell me Tommy is a household name beating the likes of Pablo Baez who got himself an emergency top ten ranking on the same day the fight was sanctioned? Where do you get this "household name" crap from?
Is Wilfred Benitez a household name? Becuz Hamsho cleaned up on Mr. household name w/o half trying. Tommy couldnt even make 1 successful defense @ 160
Piglatinsuperstar 2 years ago
and Leonard? Well, that would be asking too much. All he got to do is invite young Mike into the ring with him to dance.
Face facts shiftwork, you hiding behind the smokescreen that your boy didnt have what it takes to climb into the ring with Mike. There's no way around it. That's why you pull out the excuse "well, why didnt Hagler fight Micheal and Toney"
So far as everyone knows, Hagler was retired and Leonard was quite active (but no when it mattered) so common sense should tell u why.
Piglatinsuperstar 2 years ago
Hagler retired because his ego couldn't take the beating he got from Ray. Blah blah or not that is a fact. The smokescreen is yours - we are here to talk about Hagler v Leonard and all you can talk about is Nunn, a fairly decent fighter. It's well known that the greatest fighters of all time are Ali, Robinson, Leonard, Armstrong and maybe Tyson (although prime Holmes woud have won). Hagler isn't there. Don't bother posting wafflle about off the topic crap. The topic is Leonard v Hagler. Who won?
shiftwork 2 years ago
okay then why is Hagler heard that he wants to retire after the Mugabi fight?
Like I said, you have a lot to learn about hagler. Watching his last 2 or 3 fights, you shouldnt assume you know so much about him.
Again, why didnt Ray just defend his title? Why discard your own title then skip over to face the biggest mediocrity in the sport and challenge him. Talking p4p in the 80s alone, hagler is at the top 4 x while to Leonard's one time therefore it's Hagler who ranks higher
Piglatinsuperstar 2 years ago
In the 1999 Ring magazine poll, how come it was Leonard who came in 3rd for most oeverrated of all time while Hagler came in 4th greatest p4p in history. You got Ray Robinson, Ali, Duran, then Hagler. Roy Jones is there too. Pep, Greb, Louis. And you know what? Ray Leonard is nowhere to be found anywhere in the list. I'm not talking top 10, I'm talking that he's nowhere!\
So now what? You cant stand it when I bring up how Leonard failed to meet the challenges he should have taken. The fact is
Piglatinsuperstar 2 years ago 2
Mike would have taken his head off but you dont like to think about it so you now you try to steer it back to "Hagler v Leonard" after you been talking Roy Jones and that worthless pile of crap Calzaghe.
If they fought ten times Ray couldnt handle him. It would be worse than the Norris fight where he played with the overrated media creation all nite. when it comes to the younger generation, it's a whole different story. Turns out he wasnt so tough when he wasnt involved in remedial boxing
Piglatinsuperstar 2 years ago
I never mentioned Roy Jones sir, I never mentioned Calzaghe either. What I am mentioning is that Leonard defeated Hagler - I'm not interested in Nunn. The reason why I post on here is because it is about Hagler v Leonard. Why not defend the title? Leonard quoted in the after match interview said," I didn't want the title, I just wanted to beat him". Ray nowhere in the some poll, astonishing!! It must have been conducted by people like you. I mean if Hagler is 4th how could Ray be nowhere.
shiftwork 2 years ago
You mentioned Jones a few dozen times talking that shit. Why you lie so much for? You lie about everything. you try cover up everything that embarrasses leonard and wont go near the subject of Norris and what he did to him. Ray was heavily favored and Terry had no problem. it was supposed to be the other way around but srl just isnt good enough.
for u, picking on an old used up Hagler is all u want to talk about. u dont want to move on and say why Ray skip over Nunn for lalonde
Piglatinsuperstar 2 years ago
so to answer your question the fans are smart and see thru the counterfeit like leonard. champions are supposed to defend the title-that's what champions do unless they're Ray Leonard, too scared to face a young up and comer
and if he wanted to beat Hagler then why didnt he get to him sooner while the man still had some life left in him?
That's why no one is stupid enough to nominate him for consideration,,becuz he aint worth a shit
Piglatinsuperstar 2 years ago
The fans were smart to put Hagler 4th. They know what he's about. and so do the media-way back before you were born, nominating Hagler-in unison as BEST P4P on the planet 4 consecutive times! by KO and everyone else. And fans-the REAL fans know what Hagler has done. You werent even aware that Hagler won so many honors as a fighter did you? Like I said, you have a lot to learn about Hagler and watching his last two fights dont make u the authority u think u are
Piglatinsuperstar 2 years ago
Now I realise that you are ill. I NEVER MENTIONED JONES! Show me where I did! Leonard fought Hagler when Hagler was at his peak after the tremendous Mugabi win. I'm nearly 52, how did Hagler do wo much before I was born??? The 'fans' (drunks and druggies) would put Hagler first because they (like you) do not appreciate talent, just thuggery. You should see your doctor mate.
shiftwork 2 years ago
my bad. You are most right! I must apologize to you.
Who is the one been talking all that shit about Roy then?
Damn I didnt know you were 52. You are older than me!
But still you cant fault the fan poll because they get everyone from all over the country. Ring magzine in a stroke of genius put it on. I wish they had put it on sooner but at least they do what KO and World Boxing dont do. And also it is not just the fans but the experts alike for four straight years have Hagler as #1
Piglatinsuperstar 2 years ago
actually, i came from the Doctor two weeks ago. I had respiratory infection and he put me on antibiotics. Now I am well again.
Piglatinsuperstar 2 years ago
Well, I'm glad you're OK. But I never take too much notice of polls. We had one here (UK) and Oasis (crap kiddies pop group) were rated best band in the world AND worst band in the world in the same polls. When I said you are ill I didn't mean anything - it was only a 'get back at you' comment. Take care.
shiftwork 2 years ago
I do agree with you one thing though - Calzaghe is shit . . .
shiftwork 2 years ago 2
Thank you.
Calzaghe have his moments but you know a lot of fighters do. I seen fighters with ugly records do numbers on people once they hit their peak. I remember Pipino Cuevas not only improve but become a real terror to anyone who fight him. as tho he made a deal with the devil. he was the man to avoid if you dont want your face broken, your ribs caved in. He leave more men in crushing agony than any other fighter I've seen. But after 4 years his time was up and he turn back to a pumpkin
Piglatinsuperstar 2 years ago
Calzaghe did have some good fights I agree, but he was promoted by Frank Warren who is brilliant at getting a fighter to the top by the easy route. I fear he is going to do the same with Amir Khan at lightweight who won a version of the title last weekend. I know the name Pipino Cuevas but I don't know much about him.
shiftwork 2 years ago 2
'good' fights ?
The Lacy fight was a boxing masterclass.
ron9432 2 years ago
I agree, it was one of Joe's best performances - but where is Lacy now?
shiftwork 2 years ago
Lacy took such a beating that he will never be the fighter he was.
For the same reason I hope Hatton retires & isnt tempted to fight Khan.
for more opinions, visit my blog
search for Ronsters ramblings
on Google blogs
ron9432 2 years ago
I think that if anything his confidence was shot. I agree that Hatton should pack it in now. A boxer, it seems, is always the last to know . . .
shiftwork 2 years ago
i agree
zloc2dabrain 2 years ago
@shiftwork Then you are immediately disqualified from commenting on anything in relation to boxing. If you think Calzaghe is 'shit', you are either slightly retarded or being sarcastic. I hope it's the latter.
espanolporaplicacion 1 year ago
@espanolporaplicacion No. Of course he isn't shit. But he is vastly overrated. Frank Warren (after the bust up with Joe) was quoted as saying that in his career Joe 'avoided' around 12 fights. Of course that might not be true but I still think that Joe had by comparison a fairly easy and chosen career.
shiftwork 1 year ago
Both you guys, it's boxing. Chill there both great fighters. DONE.
jambapunks 2 years ago 28
your comment currently has a +12, congratulations!
tigerwoods232000 2 years ago
fighting Mike would have been good for Marvin but I dont see no one wanting it. everyone want to see Leoanrd beat Hagler but Ray dont got the nerve to try for it. How much money you think Marvin going to get with Mike? Becuz there is no money with the lightheavies. even the unification of 1983 between Mike and Dwight get maybe 2 million apiece?
Piglatinsuperstar 2 years ago
This fight was so great. I just watched it for the first time and I was on my feet (even though I already knew the result).
powpanda 2 years ago
Hagler's only flaw came in his last fight, the loss to Leonard. He wanted Leonard almost too badly and was quite cocky, outwardly, going into the fight. Uncharacteristically, Hagler wasted the first 6 rounds trying to intimidate and mess with Leonard; he should have known better. Hagler came on strong the last 9 rounds, but it wasn't enough. Hagler said he won, but I think he just couldn't bear to face up to the fact that he'd blown the fight by clowning during those early rounds.
OrrCountry 2 years ago
i think Hagler was shot. otherwise he would have continued his career and won back the title. Marvin should have used his jab more the way he did in round 8; he could have picked up at least 7 or 8 rounds, rested and let Sugar have a couple but might have still gotten robbed by the judges
Piglatinsuperstar 2 years ago
Man what a great fight. Very close. Many say hagler should have won, but in the end it was sugar ray that came out on top. Personally i think the judges made a good call.
pistolpete0500 2 years ago
i agree mate ! hagler got outboxed
sweetassugar69 2 years ago
Who won the fight? Hagler. Why? He landed the more punches, whereas Leonard bluffed his punches to impress the judges. It was extremely close but I think Leonard's ego influenced the judges just like Ali's did in his first fight with Norton (where he was avoided on of the judges decison but only lost by split decision) and in the third fight where I think he lost to Norton.
NazhitsREALLYHARD 2 years ago
hagler was one of the best, if not the best middleweight of all time...but, sugar ray clearly beat him...boxed smarter and wore hagler out.......doesnt matter if you run 15 rounds....a win is a win.....
erniebax 2 years ago
well said big rob (eyes roll).
AriLouisShow 2 years ago
No, Im a boxing fan and a true fan of a great boxer in Hagler. Im not sayin Leonard wasnt good, but if he clearly won, why are people still debating the decision 22 yrs later? So you can say Im a boxing fan as well as a hagler fan because Hagler was a great boxer.
steelerman1978 2 years ago 4
If getting embarrassed means that you win, Hagler won. If beating the other guy up means that you win, Leonard won.
ImpeachCommieObama 2 years ago
It was a great fight, but lets be real. Leonard ran from this man for 15 rds. when he stood flat-footed with marvelous, he got nailed. Hagler landed more of the solid shots. Leonard won because of those bitchy flurries at the end of some rounds to make him look flashy. Im a hagler fan, and he did beat leonard, hearns, duran, would have beaten benitez, roy jones, bernard hopkins. Hagler could switch to southpaw and turn a boxing match into a street fight. I just never liked leonard. never.
steelerman1978 2 years ago
You're a Hagler fan, I'm a boxing fan. Thats why you say Leonard lost. Leonard clearly won
bigrob55412 2 years ago
This was a close fight! I persnally though Haglar won it. But I gtta tell you all this! Knowing the 10 point must system I did have Leonard winning 115-114 only because of the fact that Hagler did hold back in lots of ways. If he did not hold back then I would have to say that Hagler would have won easy winning 9 of the 1rounds.
Rebelgod2k 2 years ago
ref should take points from leonard evertime he imitates muhammed ali , such a showboating fool
jblakemore001 2 years ago
lol
wesia4lia 2 years ago
sugar won this fight, i hate peple who say he didnt, he won da first 4 rounds, and da last 2, dats alredy 6 rounds won, he also prob won the 10th, the rest of da middle round wer mostly for hagler, but sum wer close enough for it to be sugar. also, wat did peple expect from sugar, to fight hagler toe to toe, we all kno hagler would hav won if dat waz da case, so did sugar, so he decided instead to outbox him with movment. boxings not all about fighting the same way, its bout finding a way to win
metalaholla 2 years ago 2
Hagler was a better fighter and won this fight.
AriLouisShow 3 years ago
Nope
bigrob55412 2 years ago
If Hagler was so confident that he could outbox Leonard, or knock him out, then why didn't he do it? He had 12 rounds to do what he needed to do and he failed. The simple fact of the matter is that Leonard imposed his will over Hagler. You impose your will over your opponent, you win. Hagler knows this happened, but will never admit it. Instead he makes excuses. "He ran", "It's Vegas". "He never hurt me". That doesn't change the fact the he outboxed you, Marvin.
RocinanteSWS 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
it was a sorry fight.. leonard finally decided to fight a past his prime hagler after he just had a war with mugabi. he avoided hagler adn pryor his whole career and when he finally fights hagler he runs the entire time doing the last second pitty pat flurry crap. hagler landed the harder punches and won the fight.. hagler was robbed and that is a disgrace to boxing
cysince86 3 years ago
sugar new he wound loss if he went toe to toe so he out smarted hagler by hitting and running but he traded as well
dant191919 3 years ago 6
some call it boxing
JuicersSuck 2 years ago
i call it running from a stiff
Piglatinsuperstar 2 years ago
Hagler is a stiff? What does that make you?
bigsleep32 2 years ago
I meant that by the time Ray called him out there was nothing left but a shell of Hagler. Make no mistake: Ray FEARED Hagler. It was sad fo me to have to watch Hagler still there at the end of 12 rounds with a man he once could have destroyed in ten seconds
Piglatinsuperstar 2 years ago
Really? He was just coming off some great wins and was still an amazing fighter, don't you think? I haven't heard many people saying Hagler was way past his peak here. Let's not forget Ray was coming off a long lay off and had lost some of his skills too. With all due respect Ray Leonard was way to skilled to have been "destroyed" by any fighter he was beatable but I don't see anyone destroying him in the first round. I respect your opinion but I respectfully disagree.
bigsleep32 2 years ago
no, he was too slow. he had some good wins later on but wasnt the fighter he was earlier when he dominated. I also dont believe leonard could have held his own with Marvin for very long. He's not in that class and his chin wouldnt have held up to Hagler's assault. No one could keep pace with Marvin. Hearns found that out. And Ray knew it too so he avoided him with his excuse until he could safely continue his career in the last couple years of the decade
Like it or not that's what happened
Piglatinsuperstar 2 years ago
Hagler never had the hand speed of Leonard and he was 33 which isn't that old. He was a betting favorite in this fight and was a more feared and respected fighter in 87 then at any other time in his career. Few to no boxing experts regard Marvin Hagler as a better boxer then Ray Leonard. When Leonard took this fight Hagler was coming off the best wins of his life and was the champion of the world and considered the best middleweight. Leonard was a better fighter than Hagler, period.
bigsleep32 2 years ago
The "experts" say a lot of things. The experts like WIlliam Nack said in SI that Norris-leonard fight was 116-112 and didnt bother to discuss the details of the fight. See what I'm getting at?
So when it comes to the "experts" I just take what they say with a grain of salt
Dont get me wrong. I think Ray's great but his chin would NEVER stand up to what Hagler could dish out if he decided to really lay into him.
Piglatinsuperstar 2 years ago
So that's why I'm saying the fight would have been short had they fought earlier.
Want more proof? 3 years before the Hagler fight Ray came out to fight someone named Kevin Howard who was much smaller physically and put him on the floor. I just dont think it's realistic for someone of your intelligence to say Ray could have stood up to Marvin or Tommy at the time.
Tommy would have knocked him out in 1984. Easily! I hate to think the damage marvin would have meted out
Piglatinsuperstar 2 years ago
What biased nonsense. Firstly Leonard here is a blown up welterweight who beat a great middleweight fair and square on the night. Secondly you ASSUME that Hagler is shot after the fantastic Mugabi battle. Thirdly Marvin refused to step up a weight himself to fight Michael Spinks in the early 80's. Don't get me wrong - Hagler is a supreme boxer but he didn't like to take too many chances.
shiftwork 2 years ago
Leonard could have taken the fight alot sooner instead of waiting 5 years. why didnt he?
Piglatinsuperstar 2 years ago
It's lucky he didn't. The Leonard that Hagler fought had at least 3 years ring rust apart from the Kevin Howard fight where he didn't look at all convincing. "Boxing News" said that after their fight, Leonard had asked Hagler to challenge him this time since Leonard had challenged Hagler for the first fight. Leonard promised next time to KO Marvin. Haglers challenge never came . . .
shiftwork 2 years ago
listen, boxing news is covering for his ass. its normal. you should see what william nack say of the Norris leonard fight. he dont mention the butt whupin and say "I had it 116-112"
Dont believe the bullshit!! they all covering for him since day 1. i was there a week after Jim Hill ask Ray about Hagler and the title. it come from ray's mouth that he want no more-just 1 fight. but it was a cop out from defending tthe title or a rematch. u know what he go one to do right? so u know he lying!
Piglatinsuperstar 2 years ago
Leonard said in the after fight interview "I didn't want the title, I just wanted to beat him". But it wouldn't have mattered because if I remember correctly Marvin retired and moved to Italy shortly afterwards. That being the case no rematch would have been possible. I'm sorry if I come on here sounding like I'm anti-Hagler. I'm not, Hagler is fantastic. I just wish he'd moved up and fought (and very possibly beat) Michael Spinks, instead of just fighting the top welterweights.
shiftwork 2 years ago
But not before Hagler tried for a rematch. I also dont believe Leonards claims "I just wanted to beat him"
Becuz he didnt say nothing about wanting lalonde. So why fight lalonde if 1) Ray only wanted one fight and 2) Is further risking his eye for much less money against an opponent of such low status?
You see? His claims are false and fall apart when once you dissect them. the more you try to explain one thing, you got to try explaining something else. one big phony story from the start
Piglatinsuperstar 2 years ago
You're only using part of the quote. Ray said he didn't want HIS TITLE, he only wanted to beat him. He did not say he wouldn't ever fight again. So he fought and beat a dangerous, hard punching world champion in Donny Lalonde. Maybe he didn't want his title either, just to beat him. Who knows? It doesn't matter. The story I heard was that Hagler didn't want a Leonard rematch, but I don't think that Hagler would chance losing to Leonard twice!
shiftwork 2 years ago
When you turn away from a rematch and won't defend your newly "won" title, what are we supposed to think?
And I wouldnt describe Donny as dangerous and hard punching but more like anonymous, plodding, slow, mediocre, stiff.
Let's cut the crap. This guy was picking his opponents; it's so obvious! In stead of taking the Hagler fight back when it really mattered, he punked out. He punked out in 82; he punked out in 84 and went back into retirement.
Piglatinsuperstar