kalo ko org kristian m'sia GATAL SANGAT nak guna bahasa arab "Allah" untuk Tuhan...
pi buang bible ko kat tong sampah...itu lebih baik sebab....
" BIBLE IS THE MOST DANGEROUS (PORNOGRAPHY) BOOK ON EARTH...DO NOT LET YOUR CHILDREN GAIN ACCESS ON IT...KEEP IT UNDER LOCK AND KEY." (Sir George Bernard Shaw)
since bible was originated in israel and jesus is a jew who never speak arab but aramaic and hebrew , the christian must not use arabic words 'Allah' , instead they should be using ' Yahweh' / 'Elohim'/ 'Eli' or whatever jewish words for God
so why u christian are making a mess here in m'sia n indonesia for...using arabic language 'Allah' for your god?
u christians shud stop corrupting others wth ur corrupted mind, will u
wow, u guys still goin at it? may be we should hang out somewhere and have live discussion....sure can make much better sense in voicing out opinions..not to mentioned, kinda save the bandwidth too
Miracles do not prove even prophethood, or whether a man is true or false. Jesus himself said:
"For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect."(Matthew 24:24)
If false prophets and false Christs can perform miraculous feats, then these wonders or miracles do not prove even the geniuses or otherwise, of a prophet.
Its ok brother, after all we are in different grave. As long as I submit to the will of God (Islam),on judgement day I will be acountable for my deed infront of my creator and those prophets that was sent as witness among them is Jesus. He prophesised ;
"Not every one who says to me, `Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father (?Islam mean submission to the will of God) who is in heaven. (Matthew 7:21)
"On that day many will say to me, `Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?' And then will I declare to them, `I never knew you; depart from me, you evildoers.'
woi balan taou..sebenarnya kau ni belumtau..ha ha ha a/..semua ayat ayat kau di bawah ni tak boleh pakai.....kerana AL-QURAN adalah pelengkap segala kitab..kau ni bodo..pi sekolah dulu lah hah ahaa sudah potong ka belum??
Saudara, kalau ko fikir yang 'you are somebody', then you kena lah buktikan dengan segala kebijaksanaan yang ada pada engkau! Kalu you sekadar nak taruh orang dalam posting ni, then i say to you that it is you who should learn more about your prophet, whether he's a true prophet or a false prophet!
It's you who should go back to school kid! ko sepatutnya tahu bahwa mereka yang menolak kebenaran Injil, adalah bukan ISlam...faham tak!
balantou72, kamu juga harus belajar.Yo knowledge is to shallow. Im talking about plural of respect where god addressed himself as "us", "our" or "we" in the book of Genesis but u are talking about plural king. How bodoh u are. I give a plain example. In malay "kami" or "kamek"(Swak Malay) is plural YES? It is polite and respected manner when someone addressed himself as "kami" or "kamek" instead of singular "aku".Ask the jews who "owned" the old tastament, how many elohiim? ONE and only!
Then what makes you think that by addressing YOURSELF as 'KAMI', do you think that you've got the right word for it? Buka kamus dewan bahasa dan pustaka dan cari makna 'KAMI'...sebelum menghakimi seseorang itu bodoh!
Adakah saya terkilan krn komen mu?
TIDAK SESEKALI!
Kerana inilah contoh produk keluaran muhammad dgn ajaran Islamnya yang suka membuat provokasi dan intimidasi yang bodoh!
So long paraseet...you're wasting my precious time with your sarcastic comments!
@balantou72.waduh,mengapa kamu ni bahlol sangat! Memanglah "kami" ni plural dan "aku" ni singular. Tapi dalam bahasa "kami" can be used by someone to addressed himself.Ini lah makna nya plural of respect yang ada pada bahasa melayu, hebrew, arab etc.Pity,these is yo problem when u read translation of Bible.If u ask Jews that god is plural in number, they laugh at u. Why not? Bcoz u dont understand the original old tastement - hebrew and relied on translation that u took the meaning literally
Siapa yang buat provakasi,kamu yang asyik hentam bahawa Nabi Muhammad itu palsu..Kami dilarang menghina nabi-nabi sebelum ini bcoz we believed that they preached the unity of God and submit to HIS divine will. "We believe in Allah, And the revelation given to us, And to Abraham, Isma'il, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, And that given to Moses and Jesus And that given to (all) Prophets from their Lord: We make no difference Between one and another of them: And we bow to Allah(in Islam)."Qur2:136
The same is true with Christianity. All sects claim they are the true ones. But if only people will observe very well that among the Christian denominations only Roman Catholic religion was truly founded by God Himself through Peter which never lost its succession until now and the rest were founded by men.
@prophetabe When Jesus founded the church through Peter, it was not a catholic church.(please dont lie) It is a church base on the true teaching of Jesus that is to keep law - the only way for salvation and submission to the will of the father in heaven. It was Paul, the self proclaimed apostle who made the mess by creating the doctrine of trinity which is unknown to other biblical prophets including Jesus.
Tell me (with all your wisdom that you may have) the meaning of this Scripture taken from the Old Testament, of the book of Genesis 1-26-27...since you feel and think that the New Testament is not authentic.
26 Then God said, "Let US make man in OUR image, in OUR LIKENESS, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, [b] and over all the creatures that move along the ground."
Why did God refer to US, OUR in this verse? Why the plural?
@balantou72 Oh my God,you are reading translation.There are "tons"of verses simillar like the verse you quote in the quran. These are not plural in number but a plural of respect in both arabic quran and the old tastament hebrew' The "we", the "us" is royal where king address himself as "we" and "us".Hebrew Elohiim like arabic Allah mean the gods and it is plural = Eloh = god and iim = respected plural and nowhere the Jews will understand that Elohiim is 3 or 4 gods. Its a plural of respect bro
@balantou72 This is yo problem bro. "God created man in his own image", u are thinking physical god that have limbs, mouth, tongue, intestine etc..and ofcoz he need food and have to excrete.. We muslim believed that man is the best creation who was given the ability to know good and evil - maybe this is the image, the spiritual image like god i.e to know good and evil. Jesus said somewhere in the bible that u have never heard his voice or seen his form at ANYTIME. To muslim God is none like Him
"He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how can you say, 'Show us the Father'?
and...
"Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own initiative, but the Father abiding in Me does His works. (The Father and I are ONE).
and..
"Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me;
6 For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
Who is this called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace?
He is Christ the Lord! Christ = the anointed one! The I AM! The Mighty God!
"He who has seen Me has seen the Father" These is only a text but if u read the whole verses that come before and after, u will get the context. Jesus is speaking about "spiritual" journey of understanding God and his mission but the disciples thought about geografical locations..."show us the father" a stupid question pose by Philip. As a jew nobody can see god. Jesus previously said that " Ye had never heard his voice or seen his form at anytime".
How wrong YOU are, kid! Abraham saw, met, chatted, and ate with God...Moses saw God's face, and chatted with God...these are just a few examples of OUR (Jews and Christian's prophets) who had seen God face to face! There are many more who performed many miracles in God's name...but NO ONE ever heard a single miracle performed by muhammad and Islam...and you don't even know how to read the Gospel? and why?
Because Jesus said, "No man is able to come to me if the Father who sent me does not give him the desire to come..." John 6:44
So sad isn't it! and Jesus also said, "I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing. "If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned. John 15:5-6
@balantou72 Memang betul lah kamu cakap kerana Jesus is the mesenger of God. He was sent by God and he is the "way and light" for bani Israil during that period. Moses was the "the way and light" during his period bcoz they are all prophet of God. Jesus is talking something spiritual. You are brainwashed to think otherwise.
He referred God in Heaven as father. My father AND Your father meaning My God and Your God. What is so sarcastic about this comment?
@balantou72 Another misunderstanding when u took the translation literally. Jesus said "ye had neither heard his voice nor seen his form at ANYTIME. I repeat "ANYTIME"! Now who is lying.. You or Jesus? U took literally the phrase.."saw,met,chatted and ate with God.." U downgraded the Almighty God into that position?Dont tell me god goes to toilet! These is proof how narrow and messy (BODOH) your mentality is. And u expect the "misguided" muslim to worship that type of god? NONSENSE!
@balantou72 Another misunderstanding when u took the translation literally. Jesus said "ye had neither heard his voice nor seen his form at ANYTIME. I repeat "ANYTIME"! Now who is lying.. You or Jesus? U took literally the phrase.."saw,met,chatted and ate with God.." U downgraded the Almighty God into that position?Dont tell me god goes to toilet! These is proof how narrow and messy (BODOH) your mentality is. And u expect the "misguided" muslim to worship that type of god? NONSENSE!
@balantou72 ..u said.."NO ONE ever heard a single miracle performed by muhammad.."Ah ha..miracle is not the test to proof anything.The hindus, the buddhist and even the pagan can performed miracles and wonders.If miracle is a proof why dont u worship Copperfield! What is the difference?Jesus said "For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect."(Matthew 24:24)
"do you believe in the Old Testament? Because if you don't, then you are denying the Qur'an!"
Why do you put me in such position? We believed in the glorious Tauraat(torah), Zaboor(psalm) and Injeel(gospel) which was revealed by God respectively to Moses,David and Jesus peace be unto them all. The present old tastement as well as the new is a mixture of "The Word of God"(first type),"Words of a Prophet of God"(second type)and "Words of a Historian"(third type) ..cont.
I put it to you...that you do not know anything about Torah, the Psalms or the Injil! The Torah and the Psalms, came to announced the coming of the promised Messiah, the suffering Christ! In the New Testament, Christ came to fulfill the prophesy of all the prophets in the Old Testament!
Jesus Christ is the complete revelations of God. Christ has redeemed man's salvation by defeating the power of death on the Cross!
I will raise them up a prophet . . . and I will put my words in ... and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him." (Deut 18:18)
I even, I am the Lord, and beside me there is no saviour." (Isaiah 43:11)
Note the first person pronoun singular in the above references, and without any difficulty you will agree that the statements seem to have the sound of being GOD'S WORD.
But the scripture also said in Isaiah 43:10 "You are my witnesses," declares the LORD, "and MY SERVANT WHOM I HAVE CHOSEN (JESUS), so that you may KNOW and BELIEVE ME and UNDERSTAND that I AM HE (JESUS). Before me no god was formed (THE FATHER AND I ARE ONE), nor will there be one after me (THERE WILL BE NO OTHER SO CALLED PROPHET, AFTER JESUS).
Wait, I thought Jesus is your god. Isn't that why you pray to him? So the lord(God) chose Jesus(who is also God) to become his servant?!?!?!So does that mean he is his own servant?
The SECOND Type: "And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; the Lord our God is one Lord:" (Mark 12:29) "And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? There is none good but one, that is God." (Mark 10:18).
Even a child will be able to affirm that: Jesus "answered" and Jesus "said" are the words of the one to whom they are attributed, i.e. the WORDS OF A PROPHET OF GOD.
"And seeing a fig tree afar off having leaves, he, (JESUS) came, if haply he (JESUS) might find anything thereon: and when he (JESUS) came to it, (Jesus) found nothing but leaves . . ." (Mark 11:13)
The bulk of the Bible is a witnessing of this THIRD kind. These are the words of a third person. They are not the Words of God or of His prophet, but the WORDS OF A HISTORIAN.
For the Muslim it is easy to distinguish types of evidence, bcoz records are contained in separate Books!
ONE: The first kind -THE WORD OF GOD - is found in a Book called The Holy Quran.
TWO: The second kind - THE WORDS OF THE PROPHET OF GOD, are recorded in the Books of Tradition called The Hadith.
THREE: Evidence of the third kind written by some of high integrity and learning, and others of lesser trustworthiness, but the Muslim advisedly keeps his Books in separate volumes!
The Tauraat we Muslims believe in is not the "Torah" of the Jews and the Christians, though the words are the same. We believe that whatever Moses (pbuh) preached to his people, was the revelation from God Almighty, but that Moses was not the author of those "books" attributed to him by the Jews and the Christians.
Likewise, we believe that the Zaboor was the revelation of God granted to David (pbuh), but the present Psalms associated with his name are not that revelation.
You are one misguided lot here, Mr! I say to you...that you do not know what you're talking about here!!!
You are talking rubbish!
But, since you declare that you don't believe in the Old and New Testament, then your qur'an is also false! More than that, you haven't proved to me how and who exactly gave muhammad this so called qur'an!
What is the point of doing this? Clearly it isn't for religious tolerance and to foster understanding. I HAVE proved to you, I gave the sura that YOU QUOTD TO ME, which you obviously read wrongly thinking, Allah appeared as a man
The "gospel" is a frequently-used word, but what Gospel did Jesus preach? Of the 27 books of the New Testament, only a small fraction can be accepted as the words of Jesus. The Christians boast about the Gospels according to St. Matthew, according to St. Mark, according to St. Luke and according to St. John, but there is not a single Gospel "according" to (St.) Jesus himself!
We muslim sincerely believe that everything Christ (May the peace and blessings of God be upon him) preached was from God. That was the Injeel, the good news and the guidance of God for the Children of Israel. In his life-time Jesus never wrote a single word, nor did he instruct anyone to do so. What passes off as the "GOSPELS" today are the works of anonymous hands!
Hope u will understand our position brother, PEACE TO YOU
Ohhh man... who told you that Christianity can mock Jesus. Youre putting words in my mouth. You see what I meant? You'll never get it. I know your style, Muslim. You're wrong, what shape moral grounds is not only religion, it is a conglomeration of human knowledge and experiences from the past and religion guides it to lay down the right path to follow. If only religion indeed shapes moral ground as you say, so what about those people who have no religion who do good and live peaceful lives?
Uh, YOU said "Jesus knows when we are joking or when we make fun of Him. He doesn't guage it in what we say here, He sees inside people's hearts". "We" would be referring to Christians, right? Or are you part of some other religion you identify yourself with?You're still avoiding my questions!You're turning this into a "Muslim vs. Christian" issue. It started as me wondering why Christians aren't angry that the entertainment industry mocks Jesus, because I as a muslim feel that it's not right.
@prophetabe... i share the same puzzlement as anisatomic on this one, seriously.... check out Jesus in South Park (the cartoon show) for example. Dont u guys (Christians) get upsets or anything-sensitivity? personally, what do u take it feel?btw, i'm not bashing or anything ok, i'm sincere bout this issue. even though i'm a Muslim, i'm not dat comfortable laughing when watching Jesus's character in south park (but still have to laugh though,its damn funny hehe). await ur sincere response.can PM
Now you're sounding like a paranoid close minded extremists that can't tolerate other religions.You are throwing accusations that have no proof.I'm asking because I want to understand, as I have said time and time again.I asked you to support what you say with quotes from religious leaders or the bible because then I will look it up, but you respond by saying "We don't depend our faith like the way you do. We don't live in the Book, we live in the spirit"
This question you pose to me, I WILL ANSWER, unlike the ones you failed to.I didn't say ONLY religion shapes moral ground,society's perception,general concepts of goodness also does.That's why, to your remark saying 2/3 of the Quran is like the bible, I say whats wrong with that?I (cause I am a moderate muslim not harbouring crazy ideas that other religions are out to get me-also a reason why i dont refer to people by their religion like you) think all religions preach universal goodness.
And because i am moderate, i don't come out with statements like "Roman Catholicism is the one true faith" as you did that will not only offend Muslims, but Protestants, Buddhists, Hindus, Jews and atheists alike. Now what was it about love that you were talking about?If you say "The problem with you ppl is that you always equate your faith with logic" then what abt the subject of theology and comparative religion?What about Christian Philosophers like Kierkergaard?
Maybe why a question lead to hostile statements is because there is lack of knowledge. There's a lot of statements here that isn't followed by texts from the bible or knowledgable Christian scholars that can make it substantial.Reading between the lines can cause big misconceptions.that's why I ask for biblical references.If you can't say it straight, maybe you can't say it at all. Now i'm asking you to say it straight,refereced. I don't accept opinions from close-minded uneducated fools.
How can that happen when we both have different faiths? It will never meet in any which way we choose to. But no matter how hard anyone would try to, I would always have the same belief and I would assume that the same is true with you as well.
So, whats the point in trying to explain when you very well know that no matter how you try, it will always turn out to be invalid to another persons point of view. If you really would want to know, pick up the holy Bible as I did with Quran and find out for yourself. You seem to be a wise guy, so what are you trying to point out. Cancel each other out? For what? To show that you are educated and Im not? Hahaha.
Look, the reason I didnt accept your argument is because there's no proof that you have cited. If it is sufficient answer for you that Jesus sees inside the heart so it's okay that they mock him, then please tell me where I can find this. I'm not a Christian, I dont go to Sunday School, I'm asking you to TELL ME WHERE TO LOOK. I'm not trying to point out anything.
Look at the way I write if it indeed sounds uneducated and I am not even an American. I just dont cite those verses that can even be used in the court of law. So, what does it seem to you? If you indeed would want to know, then why try to make me look as if I am trying to contradict you? What I am saying is what I believe in and I dont even expect you to believe in what I say.
I'm not trying to contradict you, I'm trying to find the answer! The point is not to argue, it's to find the answer!I've asked a few Christian friends of mine, and they don't know.Islam is very clear in it's laws and rules, there are guidelines about things. I've lived with these rules throughout my 20 years in this world.I want to know the Christian guideline about this.
Why the heck will it be taken into the court of law if what I ask of you is to tell me from where in the bible does it say so? That's like taking the bible into court! That doesn't even make sense. I've never read anything about someone challenging a book in the court of law, especially not a book like the Bible, Quran or Torah.
But I dont understand why Muslims hate them so much when in fact the Christian should have the more valid reason to because they were the ones who crucified and killed Christ. But we were taught to forgive thats why we dont have wars with them but that doesnt mean that we completely trust them. So what would you want to know? I am not an expert in the Holy Bible like you are an expert in yours thats why maybe you are trying to tell me that I am uneducated.
We dont hate Jews, we hate zionists. Its 2 totally different things.Ones a religion, one's a nationalist movement that builds it's country by taking land.I have no qualms about Diasporas practicing judaism in other countries, the issue of Pal-Israel is the oppressed has become an oppressor.They use the exact same tactics that were used by the Nazis n separated the West bank n Gaza.That is the issue we have.Because we are one ummah,they r our bros n sis,their fight is ours their losses are ours.
But the old was made new as God has commanded because the old Jews always misunderstood the law that Moses gave them with which they even tried to discredit many of their prophets and killed them. Thats why the Pharisees where despised by God because they taught the wrong faith to Gods people and led them to so many human errors and understanding. But its not reason to hate them, they are humans like anybody else.
Please dont tell me about the Crusade because that is what I would always hear Muslims claim especially when terrorism is being brought out into the open. Now, many people dont understand the Holy Bible and that it composes two parts. The first part is the Old Testament that is the Jewish scripture and the New Testament which is the Christian scripture. If you will understand that, you will begin to see that Christians are the New Jews who came from the line of Jesus Christ.
In doing so, I refrain from memorizing which verse will justify what because I could even point to certain verse that could make me an extremist, a radical or a terrorist in an instant. I presume that you are what you say you are as a moderate Muslim because you believed in the good teachings of the Quran. What about those who believe that they should strap bombs and personally deliver it in a wedding party full of innocent people? What book are they reading and who convince them to do that?
So for me reading and understanding the whole book is a must and not memorize verses. I realized that the reason why there are different sects in major religions is because they cite verses according to what their minds dictate and what they would want to believe. So, it changed my view and I started to read my Holy Bible from the first page to last. It took me a long while to finish it but I did.
In Islam, the differences are minor, the core of it is still the same. These scholars and their sects are taught in Malaysian high schooI religious classes. I assumed Christianity was like that too, that they had scholars that can be linked back to Jesus. Thanks for the info.
That's true, reading is more important than memorizing.But isn't that why there are scholars who have high knowledge on the book and other people learn from them,so that people wont misinterpret.This isn't true about Islam, see theres 4 main sects, but the scholars (Hambali, Maliki, Syafii, Hanafi)that started these sects studied in great detail about Islam with other great scholars before them that the teachings can be linked back to Prophet Muhamad (PBUH).They're called tabii and tabii tabiiin
In both books their both good teaching and violent teaching in many verses that it contains. So, those verses can either make one a good follower by either leading a good peaceful life or a radical violent kind of life depending on which verse would open up your avenue for learning. Then I realized that understanding what God wants for human to understand do not depend on certain verses but the whole book in itself.
I found out that they were all so dependent on different verses in those two Holy books. They would jump from one part to another like they knew what theyre talking about. They memorized it and easily locate a specific verse to support their claim. As I listened to them, I could say that they were really educated when it comes to their faith. And then I asked myself if indeed each one who claims that theirs is true then why do they have different explanation for a single verse.
So, in short these guys from the different Christian sects as well as my Muslim friend began to shower me with verses in those two Holy books. They were good and everytime they speak they always support their claims with verses in the Holy Bible and the Quran. And then something struck me and began to ask myself which one is true. So, in order for me to find out I started reading and became so interested in religion which I never ever did before.
I chanced to meet them in the street and they start preaching about God. And then I had a neighbour, a good, polite and humble man who I mistook to be a Christian at first and we became good friends. I found out later that he was Muslim and it didnt affect our friendship. I have a brother in law who is Muslim, so I am not new to your faith anymore. He lend me his Quran and I started reading it. Now, if I am an extremist as you claim, do you think I would consent for a Muslim to join my family?
I called you out because you said "Roman Catholicism in the one true faith. Thats why you will notice that Roman Catholics dont waste time debating issues unlike protestants." No one says that in public unless they want to start a fight. Obviously everyone thinks their religion is right, but your failure to be sensitive towards other people, you starting sentences with "The problem with you people" makes me believe you are less than moderate.
How many times did I hear Muslims say that Islam is the true religion so many and maybe a countless times but I never got angry, I never got irritated because thats their claim and all they have to do is prove it. So, saying that what I said will anger other faiths is not true... it will only anger Muslims. Like what happened to Malaysia when churches began burning because of a high court decision.
I admit, the actions of muslims burning the churches is wrong. I'm not alone in this, a lot of muslims are appauld. But my dear friend, you are talking about radicalisation, not the true teachings of Islam. The prophet Muhamad doesn't ruin churches or anything religious of other faiths even in his military campaigns that he wins. Other religions were allowed to be practiced freely in Medina, which he ruled. That's just a few examples of tolerance in the true teachings of Islam
When you see things like this that are happening, do you just except it as it is, or do you actually look into it, and see what the religion really says about it? Your assumptions are very superficial. See, this is what I'M trying to do, I saw what was happening in the media with mocking Jesus, and i'm trying to look into it in your religion. Only then you will be free from prejudice and you can understand the whole picture. Before making judgments, please read up about what you're going to say.
When I said Roman Catholicism is the true religion, you claimed that it will anger the Buddhist, the Hindus etc. But to tell you the truth, I never heard Buddhists and Hindus create problems for Christianity. Everywhere you go, it is always Muslims. Your radicals even call these major religions Kuffar and that Kuffars are never innocent and they deserve death. But Im not saying that its you, I know that those people are maybe unschooled and ignorant.
YOU HONESTLY THINK BUDDHISTS AND HINDUS ARENT ANGERED WHEN YOU SAY IN A PUBLIC FORUM ON A DISCUSSION ABOUT RELIGION THAT THEIR RELIGION IS FALSE?THEY AREN'T REPRESENTED IN THIS DISCUSSION, FRIEND, CAN YOU READ THEIR HEARTS? I thought that was only Jesus' ability. Apparently it's yours too!
Kuffar is a term used in Islam for non-believers. It's used for people who deny Allah and Muhamads prophethood. In arabic,it means, "rejector" so don't get too sensitive about it because as you know the language of Islam is arabic. We have terms for people who claim to be muslim but don't practice true religion, it's called fasik.We can't talk about radicalisation, because it then we will be discussing teachings that have swayed and are wrong. Any form of extremism, muslim or otherwise is wrong
Want to know the true way a muslim should treat kaffirs? You say you've read the Quran, open it to 60:8. You can even just google it. There you can see how muslims are supposed to treat kaffirs, unlike the bible which you say is subject to individual interpertation, the Quran is clear cut, it is a guide for all muslims. The prophet once said muslims will not go stray if they follow his sunnah and the Quran. It encompasses our everyday life,it has all issues.
Even Islam is believed by Christians to have been founded by a man, who you claim to be your prophet. You rever him and respect him but we respect him as a human like I respect every human but we dont believe that he was a prophet. Does that make me hateful just because I believe that way? We respect your religion thats why we were not taught to look down on you as non believers in the viewpoint of Christianity and it doesnt mean that we believe everything that you say.
Even MUSLIMS think he is only a man! ALL prophets are men! They have been given,as we call it "mukjizad" that will prove their prophethood.They have been given "wahyu" that they must spread to others, its their duty. This is where we differ from Christianity,Isa (or Jesus in English) to us is not the son of god.He is,as all prophets and nabi's are,a man.When we say non-believers, it is because these people deny Muhamad's prophecy!They dnt believe he is a prophet, hence the term NON-BELIEVER.
Dude, u should really discuss religion with ur muslim family. Muhamad is a man given "wahyu",all muslims know that. To misunderstand that is to misunderstand Islam. This is why I raised the questions about Jesus being mocked by on tv, and the Chrisitan way of dealing with it. Because Isa is a prophet in Islam,Injil is a book given to the people of Israel,mentioned in the Quran numerous times.But in Islam,he is not the son of God.He doesnt procreate like humans or animals,no successor needed.
The Quran is the pure word of Allah, not a single word is added, deleted or changed. It was brought down to Prophet Muhamad through revelations(wahyu), part by part not as a whole book straight away. This is so that the people can accept it better and it is easier for them to learn during the start of Islam. From the time that it was brought down, Prophet Muhamad dictated its text to scribes. Among them were the the 4 great khalifah's ,and Ubay ibn Ka'b.There were also people who remembered it
There's hadiths that say how people would come to the Prophet and consult about recitation. Many of his companions know the whole Quran by heart right down to the last syllable(not an impossible task, there are millions that do until today,even schools dedicated to Huffaz). After Prophet muhamads death, Khalifah Uthman made copies and passed it to capital of the Islamic world.Until today, the Quran has not been changed, unlike the bible.
The Saudi Arabia government has a mathematical system to ensure every word of the Quran printed is correct. That's why there is ONLY ONE version,because it's the true word of Allah.The accuracy of the Quran is even acknowledged by Western scholars like Laura Veccia Vaglieri (Apologie de I'Islamisme),F.F. Arbuthnot (The Construction of the Bible and the Quran).
@balantou72 If you have anymore questions, I'll be happy to answer as much as I know. And if I can't i can refer you to someone who does know. I put down references so you can look it up if you want to make sure I'm not lying. I'm not exactly sure who said those hadiths, but I will find it for you if you want me to. Prophet Muhamad's life was well documented so it won't be very difficult. Can you answer any of my questions that started this looooong public discussion,please?
Muhammad's reception of the Quran: Allah came to Muhammad in the form of a man and that Muhammad saw him (Suras 53:2-18, 81:19-24).
Based on the above surah, is it true that Allah himself came in a form of a man? and who is this man that muhammad saw? Can Allah be replaced in the figure of another man? If yes, then why?
So did(Allah)convey the inspiration to His Servant- (conveyed)what He(meant) to convey.The(Prophet's) (mind and) heart in no way falsified that which he saw.Will ye then dispute with him concerning what he saw?For indeed he saw him at a second descent.Near the Lote-tree beyond which none may passNear it is the Garden of Abode.Behold,the Lote-tree was shrouded(in mystery unspeakable!)(His) sight never swerved,nor did it go wrong!For truly did he see,of the Signs of his Lord,the Greatest!
I'm putting that not to convert you, but so tht who reads this knows what we're talking about. In that sura,and other sura's in the Quran, it does not state that Allah came to prophet Muhamad in the form of a man. Allah isn't like a human with flesh,bone,blood.He is beyond anything in the world.God coming as a man is the doctrine of Christianity,not Islam.53:6 says"Endued with Wisdom: for he appeared (in stately form);" but the Quran never said in the form of man.
I know too that not all Popes were that great but many have permitted the Catholics to evolve from war to peace. Have you ever heard the Popes nowadays incite Christians for revenge? If they will, God forgive us, it will be a great world problem. Thats why the world is not in total chaos now because its always forgiveness that they advise Christians to possess in their hearts. And I pray that Christian forgiveness will always prevail and not their anger that might turn to hatred.
@prophetabe "Catholicnity" is merely a sunday go to church type of faith.They lost all state and political power whom the pope used to enjoy. During the early history where pope has power,those who difer in their believed was prosecuted. Remember the "heretical" Arian and other unitarian sect of christian - was burn alive together with their gospel and literatures. In crusade era more horibble act done by the catholic. In Spain muslim and jews was either expelled or force to accept catholicnity
@prophetabe These heretical unitarian sect and other early apostolic christian claimed to be the true follower of Jesus has disputes with the ruling trinitarian of Paul regarding his divinity for more than 300 years. It was in AD 325 in Nicene, the concept of the triune god was officially accepted as a state religion of the Roman Empire under Constatine.Only 4 "canon" gospel accepted and remaining thousand was destroyed.Those who difer was either forced to accept the doctrine or being wipe out!
WARSyARE STILL FOUGHT UNDER THE CHRISTIAN FLAGS TODAY!Just a couple of days ago ABC news network exposed that the US army uses guns that have codes with biblical references on them to fight in Afghanistan!!! Please explain that then.
Thats why I said that Roman Catholicism is the true religion because I believe so. The Lutheran was founded by Martin Luther, The Anglican church by King Henry the VIII, The Baptists by Roger Williams and John Clark, The Mormon church by Joseph Smith, The Jehovah's witnesses by Russell Smith and so on and so forth... Only the Catholic Church was founded by Christ Himself through Peter in the Holy land in 33 A.D.
If I have mislead you into something that is not so clear to you, I am sorry. You see, I was not a pious Catholic and I used to have doubts. Some time in my younger years, there was a time when I encountered so many sects that tried to convince me that theirs is the true faith. I didnt understand, as a Catholic my understanding was not that comprehensive. Mormons started to visit my house, Pentecostals followed as well as Baptists and other sects.
@prophetabe ..There you are foolish,stupid,confused and messy prophetabe. U need a miricles?? You cant do the reasoning bcoz of falsehood Your lie is exposed !
Or is it that when you don't want to reason, you don't have a logical acceptable answer and will only ask us to "read between the lines". Friend, you STILL haven't given me an answer to my question. At least belantau72 can tell me where in the bible it says what he claims.
@Anisatonic... The whole truth is not written in pieces of paper, not even in books, not in the Torah, nor Bible and definitely not in the Quran. The real truth is written in people's hearts, that's why no matter how you argue you will only win in the eyes of man but not in the eyes of God. The Pharisees of old times thought they had the law and they were clinging to the law only to be despised by God Himself. So, citing those verses will never move me because I know where I am going. GBU!
@anisatonic... That's why we don't get worried when ignorant Christians choose another faith because we are not afraid. We never threaten them. Just ask yourself why would a true faith like Islam threaten lives of apostates? If you believe you have the truth, it will never and should not bother your belief. You may not want it, but tonight, I will pray to God to show you the light and then leave everything to Him and for you to find out and decide.
@Paraseet...Messy?... hahahaha! Look at around the world and there you'll see who's messy. Everyone see that, right? Can you evade that truth? It's very very clear... but you are blind just calling other religion messy to satisfy yourself and protect your hurting ego because you yourself can't accept what you see...You can't handle it that's why you project your frustrations on others... hahahaha! You are not only messy, you are very funny.
@paraseet... You may list down and enumerate all the verses you know here, but that will not change anything. You may call anyone whatever you like here, still the truth cannot be hidden that in reality you're religion is one that creates these mess. I don't even need to mention the world, just in Malaysia alone, you see that problem. You are the one who is messy and you should pity yourself not me, my fellow Christians don't burn Mosques nowadays... haha!
You're looking for the right reason right? I will recommend to you a Christian who kicked so many Muslim butts in debates here in you tube. I believe he is an Arab and a former Muslim and now is a Christian and he challenges all Muslims to debate him... His name is 'Christian Prince", look for him if you want enlightenment because he speaks arabic and can understand the Quran... he can show you everything in the koran and The Holy Bible. Find him, man. I'm sure he will be glad to talk to you.
@prophetabe.. Im not a debater like your friend that you mentioned. Im only defending the truth from falsehood, the sense from nonsense so that it wont be messy.
@prophetabe Oh pity .. Im only resonding to your bla..bla..bla.. telling stories and insulting other people faith but when people response to your comment with good reasoning, there you are, you cant do the reasoning. You are nothing BUT a stupid coward!
@paraseet... Calling names?... who's calling names? Insult other people? You don't know me to call me a coward. Yeah, you are all brave, that's why these things happen... haha! What do you mean pity? Are you sure? I'm having a good life. And you?
What I'm saying is true and that is reality. You can't handle it and you can't find the present in your Quran because it happened in the 7th century. That's why you spend your time in unending arguments to boost your ailing ego... hahahaha!
@paraseet... I even bullshit some stupid foul mouthed Christians if I have to because I don't judge people. I look at people as the same. and you tell me I'm calling names? Look at my recent comments here, do you see me calling names?
@prophetabe.. What are you talking about? Calling names? I dont understand ! As far as I know you mentioned your friend name "Christian Prince" and I as a muslim feel insulted by your bla..bla..bla.. That all.
So what you are telling me, is that, that I should abandon books, because all books, including the Bible is not the real truth? The thing with the Pharos is that they DIDN'T get any revelations from God, making what they were saying all wrong. But I believe Musa, Isa and Muhamad(PBUH) DID get revelations. And I've posted how the Quran was protected from any outside influences before unlike the other books(I"ve even found Western papers about it)
So, you see how you misunderstood my comment? I did not say that the books are not true, what is said is that those books are not the whole and only truth. Do you think God's words ended in books? God's words still continue until today, even until the end of time. Only religions put a stop to it in the form of books and made people believe that God's interaction with men has ended so we all have to turn to books. These books are only guides with God's words but it's not what God is all about.
I'm not trying to move you, the reason why I wrote most of the comments was because what was written about Islam was wrong. I wrote it with the intention of clearing up things, like how you assumed kafir is a derogatory term but it isnt.
@Anisatonic... I can sense when a man is stupid or not. That's why I never called you names because I always considered you someone with good education. I can feel that you are sensible enough to understand and is seaching for the truth, I can feel that. But there are still many things that you should understand. Dig some more... dig beyond your Quran. Dig inside your heart. I wish God will give you the light to see His truth. Truth is never in winning arguments. Open your eyes and your spirit.
People evolve through the years and what could be true cannot be today. If that is true then why is everything changing? Islam will change, believe me. Only the change is slow because it has been kept from the eyes of the world for a long long time and no one cared until horrible things happened. If religion will not open up to reality and truth, it will remain occlusive.
That's why Christianity evolved from being warriors to peace keepers because we believe that subjugation is not the answer. And lies will only spawn more lies. The more secrets you keep, the more you stray away from the main course which is reality. Now, winning in debates will not save you a place in heaven. Being true can. Thats why it is being said that in order for people to be guiltless is to have the innocence of a child. That innocence is the only thing that can save, not the books.
People live so much with their so called Holy books and thats the reason why different sects were created in every major religion depending on their individual interpretation. Anyone can create a sect just by using the chosen verses in any Holy book that suits their desire. Now you will say that I am not trying to answer your questions. But if you read between the lines you will find it.
The problem with you people is that you always equate your faith with logic. If logic is the basis of the faith, so that means the logic of the Pharisees who wanted Christ dead are considered valid. They have logic like you and me and God despised them. You know why because in the eyes of people they were righteous with their confessed God given intellectual prowess but in Gods eyes they were the worst among all. They see the mistakes of other but cannot straighten their own.
Now you see when I said your religious leaders should be lawyers? Because they always use logic to justify their faith. Logic are for lawyers and not necessarily for believers. When the blinds were cured, did we see logic? NO, we see faith and that faith healed them. When that woman who was about to be stoned to death by the so called righteous people in their community, was their logic? NO, it was faith that taught her to stop sinning.
When the crippled walked, did we see logic? NO, they were given the power to walk because of their faith. When the dead were risen from the dead, did we see logic? NO, it was a Godly power that did it and it was done because the man was proven to have faith. But yet people dont believe. Thats why I say its useless to argue because we dont believe in God to have animosities.
Roman Catholicism in the one true faith. Thats why you will notice that Roman Catholics dont waste time debating issues unlike protestants. Catholics know the truth that this church was built by God Himself. We know that many have converted to Catholicism in the recent years. Thats why I said before if you have chanced upon one of my comments that if Islam will not judge apostates with death, I assure you millions will flock to Christianity.
You say in Islam there is no compulsion in religion. So, if that is indeed true, then can you explain what happened to Lina Joy? Why is she in hiding now? Can anyone explain that? Now, I am not convincing anyone and I dont want to convert anyone. True conversion comes from the heart and it is a spiritual relationship of an individual with God. Salvation is individual thats why we leave the faith to the human soul to decide.
who's your god?? ha ha ha ha ha AYAHPIN ka? lu jangan main mian nama ALLAH...you sembahyang 5waktu pun takda...mau guna nama ALLAH..cilaka punya orang..sudah potong ka belum?
Okay, I can see now that it is no use in trying to reason here... Now I will start prasing Copperfield as you suggeted... and my religion will be what? Copper Christ? hahaha! Good day, friends It's time for my afternoon snack with my God... Copperfield. ;-) Don't be so engrossed with Christians, we Christianms are not God' people, okay? So, have a nice trip to paradise. Peace be with you.
You see, we can joke like that because we Christians are never High strung like you. God is our friend and Saviour. He is everything to us. Our God never taught us to fear Him but love Him and rever Him as we love our neighbors. That's why we are not slaves of God but His true disciples and children. So, you say whatever you like, it will never change my mind. So, Have a nice life, my Muslims friends. It's really great discussing these topics with you. I hope you'll always have peace in life.
You guys can joke like that, huh.God never taught u to fear Him. That's why so many people in Hollywood are making fun of Jesus. Even cartoons like Family Guy say that "Jesus's powers are exaggerated". We take blasphemy seriously, Islam is not a religion that will let their followers to mock Allah or the Prophet (P.B.U.H). Even when I watch things like that, I think how can they make fun of Jesus like that,and I'm muslim.But since Jesus is your homeboy, he wont be angry
Those who make fun of Jesus are deranged. Blasphemy is not what you think it is but if that's how you understand it, I will respect that. Jesus knows when we are joking or when we make fun of Him. He doesn't guage it in what we say here, He sees inside people's hearts. That's why we can never judge people because what's kept inside the heart is not what we see outwardly. Christians and Jesus have a strong relationship. That relationship is very clear. He knows that and is hidden from the blind.
But if they're just joking like you say and Jesus knows they are, then how can they be deranged? Won't it then be acceptable? And if you allow people from your own religion to mock your own God, what about people from other religions mocking Him? They can just as easily say "oh, well YOU'RE making fun of him too"
True faith comes from the very deepest core of the heart and not from anyones mouth. Its a relationship that makes one confident that his God sees and knows the hearts secret. If we joke about Jesus, He knows it too and we believe that. If ever I mock Him I know where I am bound to. That secret is between Him and me, thats why it becomes a relationship and not only as a believer with close mind who fears Him.
And in that same principle, where do you then draw the line between what's right and wrong.Can a Christian then announce "There is no god!!!" then 5 mins later say "Just kidding!"? Since it's clear, can you explain it? (I'm not trying to mock your religion or whatever, I want to know)
Also,its true that you can't judge someone outwardly, but doesn't actions still play weight in the world. You don't punish someone thinking about bad actions (whats in their hearts), you punish them for acting it out. Sure God(Christian's or Muslim's) will punish them in the afterworld, but in this world, there must be repercussions.
Thats the basis of law and order in society!In Islam,mocking the Prophet is unacceptable.Allah will punish him the afterworld but on earth, theres guidelines to deal with it in the Quran because humans cant see what's inside hearts, but punishments after crime must still prevail. If this is arguable, then throw laws to the dogs because every single judgement can be refuted as "you dont know whats in my heart".Or do the Christians assume that mocking Jesus is not a crime worth punishing?
If your God teaches you to fear Him, then fear Him. Our God teaches us to love, adore and trust Him that's why He tells us to spread it around the world. God's love is pure and is not coated with fear. God's love is powerful and is not coated with hatred. God's love is Forgiving and is not coated with condemnation. That's why salvation is possible in Christianity and we don't have to martyrs ourselves to achieve that.
Um, you're not really answering my questions. You're talking about a rock, im talking about a stick. Can you address my questions please. Because now, what I'm understanding is that because your God teaches you to love, adore and trust Him, it's acceptable to mock him on TV without and repercussions because" we can never judge people because what's kept inside the heart is not what we see outwardly"
Please clarify. I know that moderate Christians dont hate muslims just as moderate Muslims dont hate Christians. I'm a moderate muslim, and I'm trying to understand your religion with an open mind. I'm not saying your religion is wrong and mine is right. I'm not trying to pick a fight. I'm just trying to understand your logic. So please clarify.
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kalo ko org kristian m'sia GATAL SANGAT nak guna bahasa arab "Allah" untuk Tuhan...
pi buang bible ko kat tong sampah...itu lebih baik sebab....
" BIBLE IS THE MOST DANGEROUS (PORNOGRAPHY) BOOK ON EARTH...DO NOT LET YOUR CHILDREN GAIN ACCESS ON IT...KEEP IT UNDER LOCK AND KEY." (Sir George Bernard Shaw)
the57people 1 year ago
@the57people Sound more like the quran
Classical0note 11 months ago
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"Allah" is "God" in arabic
arabic is the language of the Quran
since bible was originated in israel and jesus is a jew who never speak arab but aramaic and hebrew , the christian must not use arabic words 'Allah' , instead they should be using ' Yahweh' / 'Elohim'/ 'Eli' or whatever jewish words for God
so why u christian are making a mess here in m'sia n indonesia for...using arabic language 'Allah' for your god?
u christians shud stop corrupting others wth ur corrupted mind, will u
jayasinga 1 year ago
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korang kristian m'sia nak guna bahasa arab ni apsal,
Allah ertinya Tuhan dlm bahasa arab dan bahasa arab adalah bahasa alQuran
bible ko asal dari israel, jesus ko pon org yahudi dia guna bahasa Aramaic dan Hebrew, dia tak guna bahasa arab
ko kristian kene guna "Yahweh"/ "Elohim"/ "Eli"atau apa saja bahasa yahudi untuk sebut tuhan ko la
ni tak pasal2 nak guna bahasa arab plak
BODOH la ko org kristian m'sia, otak ko sempit..simple logik pon tak tau
hah tu pi sembah manusia lagi, sebab tu bodoh
jayasinga 1 year ago
these guys enjoy tax-exemption on the grounds they are a religious body but seems to have all the money to go to court over frivolous issues.
finian4558 1 year ago
jesus bukan god..dia pun orang ada lancau ada macam kita....
TheJustBlues 1 year ago
lancau
TheJustBlues 2 years ago
wow, u guys still goin at it? may be we should hang out somewhere and have live discussion....sure can make much better sense in voicing out opinions..not to mentioned, kinda save the bandwidth too
fixcomm 2 years ago
@balantau72
Miracles do not prove even prophethood, or whether a man is true or false. Jesus himself said:
"For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect."(Matthew 24:24)
If false prophets and false Christs can perform miraculous feats, then these wonders or miracles do not prove even the geniuses or otherwise, of a prophet.
paraseet 2 years ago
I wish you all the best in your undertakings...How i wish we could see each other in the after life, so that both of us may know the real truth!
Have a wonderful life bro...
balantou72 2 years ago
@balantou72
Its ok brother, after all we are in different grave. As long as I submit to the will of God (Islam),on judgement day I will be acountable for my deed infront of my creator and those prophets that was sent as witness among them is Jesus. He prophesised ;
"Not every one who says to me, `Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father (?Islam mean submission to the will of God) who is in heaven. (Matthew 7:21)
paraseet 2 years ago
@balantou72
Jesus continue..
"On that day many will say to me, `Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?' And then will I declare to them, `I never knew you; depart from me, you evildoers.'
(Matthew 7:22-23)
Have a nice day bro. Peace be unto you.
paraseet 2 years ago
peace everybody..
alagamal 2 years ago
peace everybody, I want to post some verses meanings regarding to this issue, I hope it helps to clarify a lot of blur images,
2Your Companion is neither astray nor being misled.
3Nor does he say (aught) of (his own) Desire.
4It is no less than inspiration sent down to him:
5He was taught by one Mighty in Power,
6Endued with Wisdom: for he appeared (in stately form);
alagamal 2 years ago
Al-Najm, 2-9
2Your Companion is neither astray nor being misled.
3Nor does he say (aught) of (his own) Desire.
4It is no less than inspiration sent down to him:
5He was taught by one Mighty in Power,
6Endued with Wisdom: for he appeared (in stately form);
7While he was in the highest part of the horizon:
8Then he approached and came closer,
And was at a distance of but two bow-lengths or (even) nearer;
alagamal 2 years ago
peace everybody, I just want to post some of Al-Najm's surah verses, from 2 to 9 to be accurate, to clear the blur image in some people's minds....
'the next comment..'
alagamal 2 years ago
woi balan taou..sebenarnya kau ni belumtau..ha ha ha a/..semua ayat ayat kau di bawah ni tak boleh pakai.....kerana AL-QURAN adalah pelengkap segala kitab..kau ni bodo..pi sekolah dulu lah hah ahaa sudah potong ka belum??
TheJustBlues 2 years ago
TheJustBlues
Saudara, kalau ko fikir yang 'you are somebody', then you kena lah buktikan dengan segala kebijaksanaan yang ada pada engkau! Kalu you sekadar nak taruh orang dalam posting ni, then i say to you that it is you who should learn more about your prophet, whether he's a true prophet or a false prophet!
It's you who should go back to school kid! ko sepatutnya tahu bahwa mereka yang menolak kebenaran Injil, adalah bukan ISlam...faham tak!
Ksian ko!!
balantou72 2 years ago
balantou72, kamu juga harus belajar.Yo knowledge is to shallow. Im talking about plural of respect where god addressed himself as "us", "our" or "we" in the book of Genesis but u are talking about plural king. How bodoh u are. I give a plain example. In malay "kami" or "kamek"(Swak Malay) is plural YES? It is polite and respected manner when someone addressed himself as "kami" or "kamek" instead of singular "aku".Ask the jews who "owned" the old tastament, how many elohiim? ONE and only!
paraseet 2 years ago
How bodoh u are???
Then what makes you think that by addressing YOURSELF as 'KAMI', do you think that you've got the right word for it? Buka kamus dewan bahasa dan pustaka dan cari makna 'KAMI'...sebelum menghakimi seseorang itu bodoh!
Adakah saya terkilan krn komen mu?
TIDAK SESEKALI!
Kerana inilah contoh produk keluaran muhammad dgn ajaran Islamnya yang suka membuat provokasi dan intimidasi yang bodoh!
So long paraseet...you're wasting my precious time with your sarcastic comments!
balantou72 2 years ago
@balantou72.waduh,mengapa kamu ni bahlol sangat! Memanglah "kami" ni plural dan "aku" ni singular. Tapi dalam bahasa "kami" can be used by someone to addressed himself.Ini lah makna nya plural of respect yang ada pada bahasa melayu, hebrew, arab etc.Pity,these is yo problem when u read translation of Bible.If u ask Jews that god is plural in number, they laugh at u. Why not? Bcoz u dont understand the original old tastement - hebrew and relied on translation that u took the meaning literally
paraseet 2 years ago
Siapa yang buat provakasi,kamu yang asyik hentam bahawa Nabi Muhammad itu palsu..Kami dilarang menghina nabi-nabi sebelum ini bcoz we believed that they preached the unity of God and submit to HIS divine will. "We believe in Allah, And the revelation given to us, And to Abraham, Isma'il, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, And that given to Moses and Jesus And that given to (all) Prophets from their Lord: We make no difference Between one and another of them: And we bow to Allah(in Islam)."Qur2:136
paraseet 2 years ago
The same is true with Christianity. All sects claim they are the true ones. But if only people will observe very well that among the Christian denominations only Roman Catholic religion was truly founded by God Himself through Peter which never lost its succession until now and the rest were founded by men.
prophetabe 2 years ago
@prophetabe When Jesus founded the church through Peter, it was not a catholic church.(please dont lie) It is a church base on the true teaching of Jesus that is to keep law - the only way for salvation and submission to the will of the father in heaven. It was Paul, the self proclaimed apostle who made the mess by creating the doctrine of trinity which is unknown to other biblical prophets including Jesus.
paraseet 2 years ago
paraseet
Tell me (with all your wisdom that you may have) the meaning of this Scripture taken from the Old Testament, of the book of Genesis 1-26-27...since you feel and think that the New Testament is not authentic.
Continue...
balantou72 2 years ago
Genesis 1-26
26 Then God said, "Let US make man in OUR image, in OUR LIKENESS, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, [b] and over all the creatures that move along the ground."
Why did God refer to US, OUR in this verse? Why the plural?
YET...Continue...
balantou72 2 years ago
in this verse, Genesis 1:27:
27 So God created man in HIS own image, in the image of GOD he created him; male and female he created them.
Suddenly this Plural God in verse 26 becomes singular here in verse 27?
paraseet...do you believe in the Old Testament? Because if you don't, then you are denying the Qur'an!
Tell us then why in Genesis 1:26 speaks of a plural God, yet he mention himself as a singular God in verse 27!
Tell us,...why???
balantou72 2 years ago
@balantou72 Oh my God,you are reading translation.There are "tons"of verses simillar like the verse you quote in the quran. These are not plural in number but a plural of respect in both arabic quran and the old tastament hebrew' The "we", the "us" is royal where king address himself as "we" and "us".Hebrew Elohiim like arabic Allah mean the gods and it is plural = Eloh = god and iim = respected plural and nowhere the Jews will understand that Elohiim is 3 or 4 gods. Its a plural of respect bro
paraseet 2 years ago
The "we", the "us" is royal where king address himself as "we" and "us"???
How can a king addressed HIMSELF as 'WE' or 'US' when giving orders or decree? You say this is a plural respect???
This means that you believed that there is a PLURAL king in HIMSELF, right? If not, how can a king addressed HIMSELF as 'WE' or 'US'?
Anyways, you did not provide any sufficient ground for your answer! Any better one, bro?
balantou72 2 years ago
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anisatomic 2 years ago
@balantou72 This is yo problem bro. "God created man in his own image", u are thinking physical god that have limbs, mouth, tongue, intestine etc..and ofcoz he need food and have to excrete.. We muslim believed that man is the best creation who was given the ability to know good and evil - maybe this is the image, the spiritual image like god i.e to know good and evil. Jesus said somewhere in the bible that u have never heard his voice or seen his form at ANYTIME. To muslim God is none like Him
paraseet 2 years ago
But the scripture also says in John14:9-11
"He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how can you say, 'Show us the Father'?
and...
"Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own initiative, but the Father abiding in Me does His works. (The Father and I are ONE).
and..
"Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me;
balantou72 2 years ago
In another scripture it is said,
Isaiah 9:6
6 For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
Who is this called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace?
He is Christ the Lord! Christ = the anointed one! The I AM! The Mighty God!
balantou72 2 years ago
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paraseet 2 years ago
@balantou72 U are quoting John14:9-11
"He who has seen Me has seen the Father" These is only a text but if u read the whole verses that come before and after, u will get the context. Jesus is speaking about "spiritual" journey of understanding God and his mission but the disciples thought about geografical locations..."show us the father" a stupid question pose by Philip. As a jew nobody can see god. Jesus previously said that " Ye had never heard his voice or seen his form at anytime".
paraseet 2 years ago
paraseet said, "As a jew nobody can see god???
How wrong YOU are, kid! Abraham saw, met, chatted, and ate with God...Moses saw God's face, and chatted with God...these are just a few examples of OUR (Jews and Christian's prophets) who had seen God face to face! There are many more who performed many miracles in God's name...but NO ONE ever heard a single miracle performed by muhammad and Islam...and you don't even know how to read the Gospel? and why?
balantou72 2 years ago
and why???
Because Jesus said, "No man is able to come to me if the Father who sent me does not give him the desire to come..." John 6:44
So sad isn't it! and Jesus also said, "I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing. "If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned. John 15:5-6
bye bye paraseet...salaam!
balantou72 2 years ago
@balantou72 Memang betul lah kamu cakap kerana Jesus is the mesenger of God. He was sent by God and he is the "way and light" for bani Israil during that period. Moses was the "the way and light" during his period bcoz they are all prophet of God. Jesus is talking something spiritual. You are brainwashed to think otherwise.
He referred God in Heaven as father. My father AND Your father meaning My God and Your God. What is so sarcastic about this comment?
paraseet 2 years ago
@balantou72 Another misunderstanding when u took the translation literally. Jesus said "ye had neither heard his voice nor seen his form at ANYTIME. I repeat "ANYTIME"! Now who is lying.. You or Jesus? U took literally the phrase.."saw,met,chatted and ate with God.." U downgraded the Almighty God into that position?Dont tell me god goes to toilet! These is proof how narrow and messy (BODOH) your mentality is. And u expect the "misguided" muslim to worship that type of god? NONSENSE!
paraseet 2 years ago
@balantou72 Another misunderstanding when u took the translation literally. Jesus said "ye had neither heard his voice nor seen his form at ANYTIME. I repeat "ANYTIME"! Now who is lying.. You or Jesus? U took literally the phrase.."saw,met,chatted and ate with God.." U downgraded the Almighty God into that position?Dont tell me god goes to toilet! These is proof how narrow and messy (BODOH) your mentality is. And u expect the "misguided" muslim to worship that type of god? NONSENSE!
paraseet 2 years ago
@balantou72 ..u said.."NO ONE ever heard a single miracle performed by muhammad.."Ah ha..miracle is not the test to proof anything.The hindus, the buddhist and even the pagan can performed miracles and wonders.If miracle is a proof why dont u worship Copperfield! What is the difference?Jesus said "For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect."(Matthew 24:24)
.continue
paraseet 2 years ago
@balantou72
"do you believe in the Old Testament? Because if you don't, then you are denying the Qur'an!"
Why do you put me in such position? We believed in the glorious Tauraat(torah), Zaboor(psalm) and Injeel(gospel) which was revealed by God respectively to Moses,David and Jesus peace be unto them all. The present old tastement as well as the new is a mixture of "The Word of God"(first type),"Words of a Prophet of God"(second type)and "Words of a Historian"(third type) ..cont.
paraseet 2 years ago
I put it to you...that you do not know anything about Torah, the Psalms or the Injil! The Torah and the Psalms, came to announced the coming of the promised Messiah, the suffering Christ! In the New Testament, Christ came to fulfill the prophesy of all the prophets in the Old Testament!
Jesus Christ is the complete revelations of God. Christ has redeemed man's salvation by defeating the power of death on the Cross!
balantou72 2 years ago
@balantou72
The FIRST Type:
I will raise them up a prophet . . . and I will put my words in ... and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him." (Deut 18:18)
I even, I am the Lord, and beside me there is no saviour." (Isaiah 43:11)
Note the first person pronoun singular in the above references, and without any difficulty you will agree that the statements seem to have the sound of being GOD'S WORD.
paraseet 2 years ago
But the scripture also said in Isaiah 43:10 "You are my witnesses," declares the LORD, "and MY SERVANT WHOM I HAVE CHOSEN (JESUS), so that you may KNOW and BELIEVE ME and UNDERSTAND that I AM HE (JESUS). Before me no god was formed (THE FATHER AND I ARE ONE), nor will there be one after me (THERE WILL BE NO OTHER SO CALLED PROPHET, AFTER JESUS).
balantou72 2 years ago
Wait, I thought Jesus is your god. Isn't that why you pray to him? So the lord(God) chose Jesus(who is also God) to become his servant?!?!?!So does that mean he is his own servant?
anisatomic 2 years ago
it's simple,right?
Lord=god
lord=jesus therefore, jesus=god.
jesus=servant god has chosen
therefore god=servant god has chosen?!
anisatomic 2 years ago
@balantou72
The SECOND Type: "And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; the Lord our God is one Lord:" (Mark 12:29) "And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? There is none good but one, that is God." (Mark 10:18).
Even a child will be able to affirm that: Jesus "answered" and Jesus "said" are the words of the one to whom they are attributed, i.e. the WORDS OF A PROPHET OF GOD.
paraseet 2 years ago
@balantou72
The THIRD Type:
"And seeing a fig tree afar off having leaves, he, (JESUS) came, if haply he (JESUS) might find anything thereon: and when he (JESUS) came to it, (Jesus) found nothing but leaves . . ." (Mark 11:13)
The bulk of the Bible is a witnessing of this THIRD kind. These are the words of a third person. They are not the Words of God or of His prophet, but the WORDS OF A HISTORIAN.
paraseet 2 years ago
@balantou72
For the Muslim it is easy to distinguish types of evidence, bcoz records are contained in separate Books!
ONE: The first kind -THE WORD OF GOD - is found in a Book called The Holy Quran.
TWO: The second kind - THE WORDS OF THE PROPHET OF GOD, are recorded in the Books of Tradition called The Hadith.
THREE: Evidence of the third kind written by some of high integrity and learning, and others of lesser trustworthiness, but the Muslim advisedly keeps his Books in separate volumes!
paraseet 2 years ago
@balantou72
The Tauraat we Muslims believe in is not the "Torah" of the Jews and the Christians, though the words are the same. We believe that whatever Moses (pbuh) preached to his people, was the revelation from God Almighty, but that Moses was not the author of those "books" attributed to him by the Jews and the Christians.
Likewise, we believe that the Zaboor was the revelation of God granted to David (pbuh), but the present Psalms associated with his name are not that revelation.
paraseet 2 years ago
You are one misguided lot here, Mr! I say to you...that you do not know what you're talking about here!!!
You are talking rubbish!
But, since you declare that you don't believe in the Old and New Testament, then your qur'an is also false! More than that, you haven't proved to me how and who exactly gave muhammad this so called qur'an!
balantou72 2 years ago
What is the point of doing this? Clearly it isn't for religious tolerance and to foster understanding. I HAVE proved to you, I gave the sura that YOU QUOTD TO ME, which you obviously read wrongly thinking, Allah appeared as a man
anisatomic 2 years ago
@balantou72
The "gospel" is a frequently-used word, but what Gospel did Jesus preach? Of the 27 books of the New Testament, only a small fraction can be accepted as the words of Jesus. The Christians boast about the Gospels according to St. Matthew, according to St. Mark, according to St. Luke and according to St. John, but there is not a single Gospel "according" to (St.) Jesus himself!
paraseet 2 years ago
@balantou72
We muslim sincerely believe that everything Christ (May the peace and blessings of God be upon him) preached was from God. That was the Injeel, the good news and the guidance of God for the Children of Israel. In his life-time Jesus never wrote a single word, nor did he instruct anyone to do so. What passes off as the "GOSPELS" today are the works of anonymous hands!
Hope u will understand our position brother, PEACE TO YOU
paraseet 2 years ago
Ohhh man... who told you that Christianity can mock Jesus. Youre putting words in my mouth. You see what I meant? You'll never get it. I know your style, Muslim. You're wrong, what shape moral grounds is not only religion, it is a conglomeration of human knowledge and experiences from the past and religion guides it to lay down the right path to follow. If only religion indeed shapes moral ground as you say, so what about those people who have no religion who do good and live peaceful lives?
prophetabe 2 years ago
Uh, YOU said "Jesus knows when we are joking or when we make fun of Him. He doesn't guage it in what we say here, He sees inside people's hearts". "We" would be referring to Christians, right? Or are you part of some other religion you identify yourself with?You're still avoiding my questions!You're turning this into a "Muslim vs. Christian" issue. It started as me wondering why Christians aren't angry that the entertainment industry mocks Jesus, because I as a muslim feel that it's not right.
anisatomic 2 years ago
@prophetabe... i share the same puzzlement as anisatomic on this one, seriously.... check out Jesus in South Park (the cartoon show) for example. Dont u guys (Christians) get upsets or anything-sensitivity? personally, what do u take it feel?btw, i'm not bashing or anything ok, i'm sincere bout this issue. even though i'm a Muslim, i'm not dat comfortable laughing when watching Jesus's character in south park (but still have to laugh though,its damn funny hehe). await ur sincere response.can PM
fixcomm 2 years ago
Now you're sounding like a paranoid close minded extremists that can't tolerate other religions.You are throwing accusations that have no proof.I'm asking because I want to understand, as I have said time and time again.I asked you to support what you say with quotes from religious leaders or the bible because then I will look it up, but you respond by saying "We don't depend our faith like the way you do. We don't live in the Book, we live in the spirit"
anisatomic 2 years ago
This question you pose to me, I WILL ANSWER, unlike the ones you failed to.I didn't say ONLY religion shapes moral ground,society's perception,general concepts of goodness also does.That's why, to your remark saying 2/3 of the Quran is like the bible, I say whats wrong with that?I (cause I am a moderate muslim not harbouring crazy ideas that other religions are out to get me-also a reason why i dont refer to people by their religion like you) think all religions preach universal goodness.
anisatomic 2 years ago
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prophetabe 2 years ago
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prophetabe 2 years ago
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anisatomic 2 years ago
And because i am moderate, i don't come out with statements like "Roman Catholicism is the one true faith" as you did that will not only offend Muslims, but Protestants, Buddhists, Hindus, Jews and atheists alike. Now what was it about love that you were talking about?If you say "The problem with you ppl is that you always equate your faith with logic" then what abt the subject of theology and comparative religion?What about Christian Philosophers like Kierkergaard?
anisatomic 2 years ago
Maybe why a question lead to hostile statements is because there is lack of knowledge. There's a lot of statements here that isn't followed by texts from the bible or knowledgable Christian scholars that can make it substantial.Reading between the lines can cause big misconceptions.that's why I ask for biblical references.If you can't say it straight, maybe you can't say it at all. Now i'm asking you to say it straight,refereced. I don't accept opinions from close-minded uneducated fools.
anisatomic 2 years ago
How can that happen when we both have different faiths? It will never meet in any which way we choose to. But no matter how hard anyone would try to, I would always have the same belief and I would assume that the same is true with you as well.
prophetabe 2 years ago
So, whats the point in trying to explain when you very well know that no matter how you try, it will always turn out to be invalid to another persons point of view. If you really would want to know, pick up the holy Bible as I did with Quran and find out for yourself. You seem to be a wise guy, so what are you trying to point out. Cancel each other out? For what? To show that you are educated and Im not? Hahaha.
prophetabe 2 years ago
Look, the reason I didnt accept your argument is because there's no proof that you have cited. If it is sufficient answer for you that Jesus sees inside the heart so it's okay that they mock him, then please tell me where I can find this. I'm not a Christian, I dont go to Sunday School, I'm asking you to TELL ME WHERE TO LOOK. I'm not trying to point out anything.
anisatomic 2 years ago
Look at the way I write if it indeed sounds uneducated and I am not even an American. I just dont cite those verses that can even be used in the court of law. So, what does it seem to you? If you indeed would want to know, then why try to make me look as if I am trying to contradict you? What I am saying is what I believe in and I dont even expect you to believe in what I say.
prophetabe 2 years ago
I'm not trying to contradict you, I'm trying to find the answer! The point is not to argue, it's to find the answer!I've asked a few Christian friends of mine, and they don't know.Islam is very clear in it's laws and rules, there are guidelines about things. I've lived with these rules throughout my 20 years in this world.I want to know the Christian guideline about this.
anisatomic 2 years ago
Why the heck will it be taken into the court of law if what I ask of you is to tell me from where in the bible does it say so? That's like taking the bible into court! That doesn't even make sense. I've never read anything about someone challenging a book in the court of law, especially not a book like the Bible, Quran or Torah.
anisatomic 2 years ago
But I dont understand why Muslims hate them so much when in fact the Christian should have the more valid reason to because they were the ones who crucified and killed Christ. But we were taught to forgive thats why we dont have wars with them but that doesnt mean that we completely trust them. So what would you want to know? I am not an expert in the Holy Bible like you are an expert in yours thats why maybe you are trying to tell me that I am uneducated.
prophetabe 2 years ago
We dont hate Jews, we hate zionists. Its 2 totally different things.Ones a religion, one's a nationalist movement that builds it's country by taking land.I have no qualms about Diasporas practicing judaism in other countries, the issue of Pal-Israel is the oppressed has become an oppressor.They use the exact same tactics that were used by the Nazis n separated the West bank n Gaza.That is the issue we have.Because we are one ummah,they r our bros n sis,their fight is ours their losses are ours.
anisatomic 2 years ago
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But the old was made new as God has commanded because the old Jews always misunderstood the law that Moses gave them with which they even tried to discredit many of their prophets and killed them. Thats why the Pharisees where despised by God because they taught the wrong faith to Gods people and led them to so many human errors and understanding. But its not reason to hate them, they are humans like anybody else.
prophetabe 2 years ago
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Please dont tell me about the Crusade because that is what I would always hear Muslims claim especially when terrorism is being brought out into the open. Now, many people dont understand the Holy Bible and that it composes two parts. The first part is the Old Testament that is the Jewish scripture and the New Testament which is the Christian scripture. If you will understand that, you will begin to see that Christians are the New Jews who came from the line of Jesus Christ.
prophetabe 2 years ago
In doing so, I refrain from memorizing which verse will justify what because I could even point to certain verse that could make me an extremist, a radical or a terrorist in an instant. I presume that you are what you say you are as a moderate Muslim because you believed in the good teachings of the Quran. What about those who believe that they should strap bombs and personally deliver it in a wedding party full of innocent people? What book are they reading and who convince them to do that?
prophetabe 2 years ago
So for me reading and understanding the whole book is a must and not memorize verses. I realized that the reason why there are different sects in major religions is because they cite verses according to what their minds dictate and what they would want to believe. So, it changed my view and I started to read my Holy Bible from the first page to last. It took me a long while to finish it but I did.
prophetabe 2 years ago
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anisatomic 2 years ago
In Islam, the differences are minor, the core of it is still the same. These scholars and their sects are taught in Malaysian high schooI religious classes. I assumed Christianity was like that too, that they had scholars that can be linked back to Jesus. Thanks for the info.
anisatomic 2 years ago
That's true, reading is more important than memorizing.But isn't that why there are scholars who have high knowledge on the book and other people learn from them,so that people wont misinterpret.This isn't true about Islam, see theres 4 main sects, but the scholars (Hambali, Maliki, Syafii, Hanafi)that started these sects studied in great detail about Islam with other great scholars before them that the teachings can be linked back to Prophet Muhamad (PBUH).They're called tabii and tabii tabiiin
anisatomic 2 years ago
In both books their both good teaching and violent teaching in many verses that it contains. So, those verses can either make one a good follower by either leading a good peaceful life or a radical violent kind of life depending on which verse would open up your avenue for learning. Then I realized that understanding what God wants for human to understand do not depend on certain verses but the whole book in itself.
prophetabe 2 years ago
I found out that they were all so dependent on different verses in those two Holy books. They would jump from one part to another like they knew what theyre talking about. They memorized it and easily locate a specific verse to support their claim. As I listened to them, I could say that they were really educated when it comes to their faith. And then I asked myself if indeed each one who claims that theirs is true then why do they have different explanation for a single verse.
prophetabe 2 years ago
So, in short these guys from the different Christian sects as well as my Muslim friend began to shower me with verses in those two Holy books. They were good and everytime they speak they always support their claims with verses in the Holy Bible and the Quran. And then something struck me and began to ask myself which one is true. So, in order for me to find out I started reading and became so interested in religion which I never ever did before.
prophetabe 2 years ago
I chanced to meet them in the street and they start preaching about God. And then I had a neighbour, a good, polite and humble man who I mistook to be a Christian at first and we became good friends. I found out later that he was Muslim and it didnt affect our friendship. I have a brother in law who is Muslim, so I am not new to your faith anymore. He lend me his Quran and I started reading it. Now, if I am an extremist as you claim, do you think I would consent for a Muslim to join my family?
prophetabe 2 years ago
I called you out because you said "Roman Catholicism in the one true faith. Thats why you will notice that Roman Catholics dont waste time debating issues unlike protestants." No one says that in public unless they want to start a fight. Obviously everyone thinks their religion is right, but your failure to be sensitive towards other people, you starting sentences with "The problem with you people" makes me believe you are less than moderate.
anisatomic 2 years ago
How many times did I hear Muslims say that Islam is the true religion so many and maybe a countless times but I never got angry, I never got irritated because thats their claim and all they have to do is prove it. So, saying that what I said will anger other faiths is not true... it will only anger Muslims. Like what happened to Malaysia when churches began burning because of a high court decision.
prophetabe 2 years ago
I admit, the actions of muslims burning the churches is wrong. I'm not alone in this, a lot of muslims are appauld. But my dear friend, you are talking about radicalisation, not the true teachings of Islam. The prophet Muhamad doesn't ruin churches or anything religious of other faiths even in his military campaigns that he wins. Other religions were allowed to be practiced freely in Medina, which he ruled. That's just a few examples of tolerance in the true teachings of Islam
anisatomic 2 years ago
When you see things like this that are happening, do you just except it as it is, or do you actually look into it, and see what the religion really says about it? Your assumptions are very superficial. See, this is what I'M trying to do, I saw what was happening in the media with mocking Jesus, and i'm trying to look into it in your religion. Only then you will be free from prejudice and you can understand the whole picture. Before making judgments, please read up about what you're going to say.
anisatomic 2 years ago
When I said Roman Catholicism is the true religion, you claimed that it will anger the Buddhist, the Hindus etc. But to tell you the truth, I never heard Buddhists and Hindus create problems for Christianity. Everywhere you go, it is always Muslims. Your radicals even call these major religions Kuffar and that Kuffars are never innocent and they deserve death. But Im not saying that its you, I know that those people are maybe unschooled and ignorant.
prophetabe 2 years ago
@prophetabe Its another lie. . if these really mean what you say, there will be not a single christian in the arab world.
paraseet 2 years ago
YOU HONESTLY THINK BUDDHISTS AND HINDUS ARENT ANGERED WHEN YOU SAY IN A PUBLIC FORUM ON A DISCUSSION ABOUT RELIGION THAT THEIR RELIGION IS FALSE?THEY AREN'T REPRESENTED IN THIS DISCUSSION, FRIEND, CAN YOU READ THEIR HEARTS? I thought that was only Jesus' ability. Apparently it's yours too!
anisatomic 2 years ago
Kuffar is a term used in Islam for non-believers. It's used for people who deny Allah and Muhamads prophethood. In arabic,it means, "rejector" so don't get too sensitive about it because as you know the language of Islam is arabic. We have terms for people who claim to be muslim but don't practice true religion, it's called fasik.We can't talk about radicalisation, because it then we will be discussing teachings that have swayed and are wrong. Any form of extremism, muslim or otherwise is wrong
anisatomic 2 years ago
Want to know the true way a muslim should treat kaffirs? You say you've read the Quran, open it to 60:8. You can even just google it. There you can see how muslims are supposed to treat kaffirs, unlike the bible which you say is subject to individual interpertation, the Quran is clear cut, it is a guide for all muslims. The prophet once said muslims will not go stray if they follow his sunnah and the Quran. It encompasses our everyday life,it has all issues.
anisatomic 2 years ago
Or better yet, you can go ask your muslim family members, and they can explain it to you.
anisatomic 2 years ago
Even Islam is believed by Christians to have been founded by a man, who you claim to be your prophet. You rever him and respect him but we respect him as a human like I respect every human but we dont believe that he was a prophet. Does that make me hateful just because I believe that way? We respect your religion thats why we were not taught to look down on you as non believers in the viewpoint of Christianity and it doesnt mean that we believe everything that you say.
prophetabe 2 years ago
Even MUSLIMS think he is only a man! ALL prophets are men! They have been given,as we call it "mukjizad" that will prove their prophethood.They have been given "wahyu" that they must spread to others, its their duty. This is where we differ from Christianity,Isa (or Jesus in English) to us is not the son of god.He is,as all prophets and nabi's are,a man.When we say non-believers, it is because these people deny Muhamad's prophecy!They dnt believe he is a prophet, hence the term NON-BELIEVER.
anisatomic 2 years ago
Dude, u should really discuss religion with ur muslim family. Muhamad is a man given "wahyu",all muslims know that. To misunderstand that is to misunderstand Islam. This is why I raised the questions about Jesus being mocked by on tv, and the Chrisitan way of dealing with it. Because Isa is a prophet in Islam,Injil is a book given to the people of Israel,mentioned in the Quran numerous times.But in Islam,he is not the son of God.He doesnt procreate like humans or animals,no successor needed.
anisatomic 2 years ago
@anisatomic
Tell me...how did this so called qur'an handed down to muhammad??? Who gave it to him then?
balantou72 2 years ago
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anisatomic 2 years ago
The Quran is the pure word of Allah, not a single word is added, deleted or changed. It was brought down to Prophet Muhamad through revelations(wahyu), part by part not as a whole book straight away. This is so that the people can accept it better and it is easier for them to learn during the start of Islam. From the time that it was brought down, Prophet Muhamad dictated its text to scribes. Among them were the the 4 great khalifah's ,and Ubay ibn Ka'b.There were also people who remembered it
anisatomic 2 years ago
There's hadiths that say how people would come to the Prophet and consult about recitation. Many of his companions know the whole Quran by heart right down to the last syllable(not an impossible task, there are millions that do until today,even schools dedicated to Huffaz). After Prophet muhamads death, Khalifah Uthman made copies and passed it to capital of the Islamic world.Until today, the Quran has not been changed, unlike the bible.
anisatomic 2 years ago
The Saudi Arabia government has a mathematical system to ensure every word of the Quran printed is correct. That's why there is ONLY ONE version,because it's the true word of Allah.The accuracy of the Quran is even acknowledged by Western scholars like Laura Veccia Vaglieri (Apologie de I'Islamisme),F.F. Arbuthnot (The Construction of the Bible and the Quran).
anisatomic 2 years ago
@balantou72 If you have anymore questions, I'll be happy to answer as much as I know. And if I can't i can refer you to someone who does know. I put down references so you can look it up if you want to make sure I'm not lying. I'm not exactly sure who said those hadiths, but I will find it for you if you want me to. Prophet Muhamad's life was well documented so it won't be very difficult. Can you answer any of my questions that started this looooong public discussion,please?
anisatomic 2 years ago
@anisatomic
Muhammad's reception of the Quran: Allah came to Muhammad in the form of a man and that Muhammad saw him (Suras 53:2-18, 81:19-24).
Based on the above surah, is it true that Allah himself came in a form of a man? and who is this man that muhammad saw? Can Allah be replaced in the figure of another man? If yes, then why?
Peace...
balantou72 2 years ago
53:10-18
So did(Allah)convey the inspiration to His Servant- (conveyed)what He(meant) to convey.The(Prophet's) (mind and) heart in no way falsified that which he saw.Will ye then dispute with him concerning what he saw?For indeed he saw him at a second descent.Near the Lote-tree beyond which none may passNear it is the Garden of Abode.Behold,the Lote-tree was shrouded(in mystery unspeakable!)(His) sight never swerved,nor did it go wrong!For truly did he see,of the Signs of his Lord,the Greatest!
anisatomic 2 years ago
I'm putting that not to convert you, but so tht who reads this knows what we're talking about. In that sura,and other sura's in the Quran, it does not state that Allah came to prophet Muhamad in the form of a man. Allah isn't like a human with flesh,bone,blood.He is beyond anything in the world.God coming as a man is the doctrine of Christianity,not Islam.53:6 says"Endued with Wisdom: for he appeared (in stately form);" but the Quran never said in the form of man.
anisatomic 2 years ago
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anisatomic 2 years ago
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prophetabe 2 years ago
I know too that not all Popes were that great but many have permitted the Catholics to evolve from war to peace. Have you ever heard the Popes nowadays incite Christians for revenge? If they will, God forgive us, it will be a great world problem. Thats why the world is not in total chaos now because its always forgiveness that they advise Christians to possess in their hearts. And I pray that Christian forgiveness will always prevail and not their anger that might turn to hatred.
prophetabe 2 years ago
@prophetabe "Catholicnity" is merely a sunday go to church type of faith.They lost all state and political power whom the pope used to enjoy. During the early history where pope has power,those who difer in their believed was prosecuted. Remember the "heretical" Arian and other unitarian sect of christian - was burn alive together with their gospel and literatures. In crusade era more horibble act done by the catholic. In Spain muslim and jews was either expelled or force to accept catholicnity
paraseet 2 years ago
@prophetabe These heretical unitarian sect and other early apostolic christian claimed to be the true follower of Jesus has disputes with the ruling trinitarian of Paul regarding his divinity for more than 300 years. It was in AD 325 in Nicene, the concept of the triune god was officially accepted as a state religion of the Roman Empire under Constatine.Only 4 "canon" gospel accepted and remaining thousand was destroyed.Those who difer was either forced to accept the doctrine or being wipe out!
paraseet 2 years ago
WARSyARE STILL FOUGHT UNDER THE CHRISTIAN FLAGS TODAY!Just a couple of days ago ABC news network exposed that the US army uses guns that have codes with biblical references on them to fight in Afghanistan!!! Please explain that then.
anisatomic 2 years ago
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anisatomic 2 years ago
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Thats why I said that Roman Catholicism is the true religion because I believe so. The Lutheran was founded by Martin Luther, The Anglican church by King Henry the VIII, The Baptists by Roger Williams and John Clark, The Mormon church by Joseph Smith, The Jehovah's witnesses by Russell Smith and so on and so forth... Only the Catholic Church was founded by Christ Himself through Peter in the Holy land in 33 A.D.
prophetabe 2 years ago
If I have mislead you into something that is not so clear to you, I am sorry. You see, I was not a pious Catholic and I used to have doubts. Some time in my younger years, there was a time when I encountered so many sects that tried to convince me that theirs is the true faith. I didnt understand, as a Catholic my understanding was not that comprehensive. Mormons started to visit my house, Pentecostals followed as well as Baptists and other sects.
prophetabe 2 years ago
Then just drop it. I will ask someone that's more versed in it. (If anyone is reading this and can answer,please do.) Thanks for the attempt.
anisatomic 2 years ago
@prophetabe ..There you are foolish,stupid,confused and messy prophetabe. U need a miricles?? You cant do the reasoning bcoz of falsehood Your lie is exposed !
paraseet 2 years ago
@paraseet.... Hahahaha! When I don't want to reason that means it's useless. Falsehood? Hahaha... We will see.!
prophetabe 2 years ago
Or is it that when you don't want to reason, you don't have a logical acceptable answer and will only ask us to "read between the lines". Friend, you STILL haven't given me an answer to my question. At least belantau72 can tell me where in the bible it says what he claims.
anisatomic 2 years ago
@Anisatonic... The whole truth is not written in pieces of paper, not even in books, not in the Torah, nor Bible and definitely not in the Quran. The real truth is written in people's hearts, that's why no matter how you argue you will only win in the eyes of man but not in the eyes of God. The Pharisees of old times thought they had the law and they were clinging to the law only to be despised by God Himself. So, citing those verses will never move me because I know where I am going. GBU!
prophetabe 2 years ago
@anisatonic... That's why we don't get worried when ignorant Christians choose another faith because we are not afraid. We never threaten them. Just ask yourself why would a true faith like Islam threaten lives of apostates? If you believe you have the truth, it will never and should not bother your belief. You may not want it, but tonight, I will pray to God to show you the light and then leave everything to Him and for you to find out and decide.
prophetabe 2 years ago
@prophetabe..oh pity, you need miricles from god? What are we going to decide? ..from truth to falsehood? .. from sense to nonsense?
Cmon u can decide anything about the truth .. no need guide, no need bible, no need quran. No wonder you a messy prohetabe!
paraseet 2 years ago
@Paraseet...Messy?... hahahaha! Look at around the world and there you'll see who's messy. Everyone see that, right? Can you evade that truth? It's very very clear... but you are blind just calling other religion messy to satisfy yourself and protect your hurting ego because you yourself can't accept what you see...You can't handle it that's why you project your frustrations on others... hahahaha! You are not only messy, you are very funny.
prophetabe 2 years ago
@paraseet... You may list down and enumerate all the verses you know here, but that will not change anything. You may call anyone whatever you like here, still the truth cannot be hidden that in reality you're religion is one that creates these mess. I don't even need to mention the world, just in Malaysia alone, you see that problem. You are the one who is messy and you should pity yourself not me, my fellow Christians don't burn Mosques nowadays... haha!
prophetabe 2 years ago
You're looking for the right reason right? I will recommend to you a Christian who kicked so many Muslim butts in debates here in you tube. I believe he is an Arab and a former Muslim and now is a Christian and he challenges all Muslims to debate him... His name is 'Christian Prince", look for him if you want enlightenment because he speaks arabic and can understand the Quran... he can show you everything in the koran and The Holy Bible. Find him, man. I'm sure he will be glad to talk to you.
prophetabe 2 years ago
@prophetabe.. Im not a debater like your friend that you mentioned. Im only defending the truth from falsehood, the sense from nonsense so that it wont be messy.
paraseet 2 years ago
@prophetabe Oh pity .. Im only resonding to your bla..bla..bla.. telling stories and insulting other people faith but when people response to your comment with good reasoning, there you are, you cant do the reasoning. You are nothing BUT a stupid coward!
paraseet 2 years ago
@paraseet... Calling names?... who's calling names? Insult other people? You don't know me to call me a coward. Yeah, you are all brave, that's why these things happen... haha! What do you mean pity? Are you sure? I'm having a good life. And you?
What I'm saying is true and that is reality. You can't handle it and you can't find the present in your Quran because it happened in the 7th century. That's why you spend your time in unending arguments to boost your ailing ego... hahahaha!
prophetabe 2 years ago
@paraseet... I even bullshit some stupid foul mouthed Christians if I have to because I don't judge people. I look at people as the same. and you tell me I'm calling names? Look at my recent comments here, do you see me calling names?
prophetabe 2 years ago
@prophetabe.. What are you talking about? Calling names? I dont understand ! As far as I know you mentioned your friend name "Christian Prince" and I as a muslim feel insulted by your bla..bla..bla.. That all.
paraseet 2 years ago
So what you are telling me, is that, that I should abandon books, because all books, including the Bible is not the real truth? The thing with the Pharos is that they DIDN'T get any revelations from God, making what they were saying all wrong. But I believe Musa, Isa and Muhamad(PBUH) DID get revelations. And I've posted how the Quran was protected from any outside influences before unlike the other books(I"ve even found Western papers about it)
anisatomic 2 years ago
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prophetabe 2 years ago
So, you see how you misunderstood my comment? I did not say that the books are not true, what is said is that those books are not the whole and only truth. Do you think God's words ended in books? God's words still continue until today, even until the end of time. Only religions put a stop to it in the form of books and made people believe that God's interaction with men has ended so we all have to turn to books. These books are only guides with God's words but it's not what God is all about.
prophetabe 2 years ago
I'm not trying to move you, the reason why I wrote most of the comments was because what was written about Islam was wrong. I wrote it with the intention of clearing up things, like how you assumed kafir is a derogatory term but it isnt.
anisatomic 2 years ago
@prohetabe. When u are cornered u said no need bible,no need quran,no need guide etc. U just cant do the good reasoning bcoz of yo falsehood.
Allah said.."DEAF,DUMB AND BLIND,THEY WILL NOT RETURN(TO THE RIGHT PATH)"Quran 2:18
Jesus said to his socalled follower.."seeing you see not,hearing you hear not.You will never understand."
Allah said."In their hearts is a disease;
And Allah has increased their disease;
And grievous penalty they (incur)
Because they are false (to themselves)"
(Quran 2:10)
paraseet 2 years ago
@Anisatonic... I can sense when a man is stupid or not. That's why I never called you names because I always considered you someone with good education. I can feel that you are sensible enough to understand and is seaching for the truth, I can feel that. But there are still many things that you should understand. Dig some more... dig beyond your Quran. Dig inside your heart. I wish God will give you the light to see His truth. Truth is never in winning arguments. Open your eyes and your spirit.
prophetabe 2 years ago
People evolve through the years and what could be true cannot be today. If that is true then why is everything changing? Islam will change, believe me. Only the change is slow because it has been kept from the eyes of the world for a long long time and no one cared until horrible things happened. If religion will not open up to reality and truth, it will remain occlusive.
prophetabe 2 years ago
That's why Christianity evolved from being warriors to peace keepers because we believe that subjugation is not the answer. And lies will only spawn more lies. The more secrets you keep, the more you stray away from the main course which is reality. Now, winning in debates will not save you a place in heaven. Being true can. Thats why it is being said that in order for people to be guiltless is to have the innocence of a child. That innocence is the only thing that can save, not the books.
prophetabe 2 years ago
People live so much with their so called Holy books and thats the reason why different sects were created in every major religion depending on their individual interpretation. Anyone can create a sect just by using the chosen verses in any Holy book that suits their desire. Now you will say that I am not trying to answer your questions. But if you read between the lines you will find it.
prophetabe 2 years ago
The problem with you people is that you always equate your faith with logic. If logic is the basis of the faith, so that means the logic of the Pharisees who wanted Christ dead are considered valid. They have logic like you and me and God despised them. You know why because in the eyes of people they were righteous with their confessed God given intellectual prowess but in Gods eyes they were the worst among all. They see the mistakes of other but cannot straighten their own.
prophetabe 2 years ago
Now you see when I said your religious leaders should be lawyers? Because they always use logic to justify their faith. Logic are for lawyers and not necessarily for believers. When the blinds were cured, did we see logic? NO, we see faith and that faith healed them. When that woman who was about to be stoned to death by the so called righteous people in their community, was their logic? NO, it was faith that taught her to stop sinning.
prophetabe 2 years ago
When the crippled walked, did we see logic? NO, they were given the power to walk because of their faith. When the dead were risen from the dead, did we see logic? NO, it was a Godly power that did it and it was done because the man was proven to have faith. But yet people dont believe. Thats why I say its useless to argue because we dont believe in God to have animosities.
prophetabe 2 years ago
Roman Catholicism in the one true faith. Thats why you will notice that Roman Catholics dont waste time debating issues unlike protestants. Catholics know the truth that this church was built by God Himself. We know that many have converted to Catholicism in the recent years. Thats why I said before if you have chanced upon one of my comments that if Islam will not judge apostates with death, I assure you millions will flock to Christianity.
prophetabe 2 years ago
You say in Islam there is no compulsion in religion. So, if that is indeed true, then can you explain what happened to Lina Joy? Why is she in hiding now? Can anyone explain that? Now, I am not convincing anyone and I dont want to convert anyone. True conversion comes from the heart and it is a spiritual relationship of an individual with God. Salvation is individual thats why we leave the faith to the human soul to decide.
prophetabe 2 years ago
anisatomic...tak perlu..buang masa berceramah..mereka dah terang terang hina islam..guna Nama ALLAH....suruh diaorang guna AYAHPIN ha ha ahhaaaaaa
TheJustBlues 2 years ago
who's your god?? ha ha ha ha ha AYAHPIN ka? lu jangan main mian nama ALLAH...you sembahyang 5waktu pun takda...mau guna nama ALLAH..cilaka punya orang..sudah potong ka belum?
TheJustBlues 2 years ago
You think we Christians are afraid of your little fire?? You are lucky we are peace-loving people.
ChristianCrusader777 2 years ago
Okay, I can see now that it is no use in trying to reason here... Now I will start prasing Copperfield as you suggeted... and my religion will be what? Copper Christ? hahaha! Good day, friends It's time for my afternoon snack with my God... Copperfield. ;-) Don't be so engrossed with Christians, we Christianms are not God' people, okay? So, have a nice trip to paradise. Peace be with you.
prophetabe 2 years ago
You see, we can joke like that because we Christians are never High strung like you. God is our friend and Saviour. He is everything to us. Our God never taught us to fear Him but love Him and rever Him as we love our neighbors. That's why we are not slaves of God but His true disciples and children. So, you say whatever you like, it will never change my mind. So, Have a nice life, my Muslims friends. It's really great discussing these topics with you. I hope you'll always have peace in life.
prophetabe 2 years ago
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anisatomic 2 years ago
You guys can joke like that, huh.God never taught u to fear Him. That's why so many people in Hollywood are making fun of Jesus. Even cartoons like Family Guy say that "Jesus's powers are exaggerated". We take blasphemy seriously, Islam is not a religion that will let their followers to mock Allah or the Prophet (P.B.U.H). Even when I watch things like that, I think how can they make fun of Jesus like that,and I'm muslim.But since Jesus is your homeboy, he wont be angry
anisatomic 2 years ago
Those who make fun of Jesus are deranged. Blasphemy is not what you think it is but if that's how you understand it, I will respect that. Jesus knows when we are joking or when we make fun of Him. He doesn't guage it in what we say here, He sees inside people's hearts. That's why we can never judge people because what's kept inside the heart is not what we see outwardly. Christians and Jesus have a strong relationship. That relationship is very clear. He knows that and is hidden from the blind.
prophetabe 2 years ago
But if they're just joking like you say and Jesus knows they are, then how can they be deranged? Won't it then be acceptable? And if you allow people from your own religion to mock your own God, what about people from other religions mocking Him? They can just as easily say "oh, well YOU'RE making fun of him too"
anisatomic 2 years ago
True faith comes from the very deepest core of the heart and not from anyones mouth. Its a relationship that makes one confident that his God sees and knows the hearts secret. If we joke about Jesus, He knows it too and we believe that. If ever I mock Him I know where I am bound to. That secret is between Him and me, thats why it becomes a relationship and not only as a believer with close mind who fears Him.
prophetabe 2 years ago
And in that same principle, where do you then draw the line between what's right and wrong.Can a Christian then announce "There is no god!!!" then 5 mins later say "Just kidding!"? Since it's clear, can you explain it? (I'm not trying to mock your religion or whatever, I want to know)
anisatomic 2 years ago
Also,its true that you can't judge someone outwardly, but doesn't actions still play weight in the world. You don't punish someone thinking about bad actions (whats in their hearts), you punish them for acting it out. Sure God(Christian's or Muslim's) will punish them in the afterworld, but in this world, there must be repercussions.
anisatomic 2 years ago
Thats the basis of law and order in society!In Islam,mocking the Prophet is unacceptable.Allah will punish him the afterworld but on earth, theres guidelines to deal with it in the Quran because humans cant see what's inside hearts, but punishments after crime must still prevail. If this is arguable, then throw laws to the dogs because every single judgement can be refuted as "you dont know whats in my heart".Or do the Christians assume that mocking Jesus is not a crime worth punishing?
anisatomic 2 years ago
If your God teaches you to fear Him, then fear Him. Our God teaches us to love, adore and trust Him that's why He tells us to spread it around the world. God's love is pure and is not coated with fear. God's love is powerful and is not coated with hatred. God's love is Forgiving and is not coated with condemnation. That's why salvation is possible in Christianity and we don't have to martyrs ourselves to achieve that.
prophetabe 2 years ago
Um, you're not really answering my questions. You're talking about a rock, im talking about a stick. Can you address my questions please. Because now, what I'm understanding is that because your God teaches you to love, adore and trust Him, it's acceptable to mock him on TV without and repercussions because" we can never judge people because what's kept inside the heart is not what we see outwardly"
anisatomic 2 years ago
Please clarify. I know that moderate Christians dont hate muslims just as moderate Muslims dont hate Christians. I'm a moderate muslim, and I'm trying to understand your religion with an open mind. I'm not saying your religion is wrong and mine is right. I'm not trying to pick a fight. I'm just trying to understand your logic. So please clarify.
anisatomic 2 years ago