Please, read about Maurice André and Bud Herseth, for example, and you do not find that kind of "mental-roll-in". Keep it simple. See Vizzutti's video of Yamaha, when he put the horn in his head, making a parody of that "complex" methods. Good luck.
I have been playing the trumpet over 40 years, with a big step improvement the last few years after studying the BE method from Jef Smiley and the help through on line support from Bert Lochs, I still regret that I did not met this method earlier to improve my embouchure. I fully agree with the explanation from Mr. Jumbo, which also covers the help I got from Bert Lochs.
When playing pedal tones, do NOT position mouthpiece to the side of your mouth. This restricts the amount of top lip you get into the mouthpiece. Keep mouthpiece centered. When playing pedal tones you should have almost all of your top lip inside of mouthpiece. Very little bottom lip should be involved. As you play pedal tones, "perch" your lips in an outward fashion like giving a big kiss. Push lower jaw forward and tilt bell upward. Use lots of air and take it slowly & softly. Open throat.
I think most of the anti-BE posts here are from people who don't understand how the method works. You aren't supposed to actually play with a super rolled in embouchure. You're supposed to play just like you normally play and not even think about BE except for when you're doing the exercises. Your embouchure is supposed to gradually change over time. You still go along doing your normal practice routine. If you spent a year doing nothing but BE exercises, you were doing it wrong...
Gmac, i don't know if you're still working with BE, but at 2:52 you say "here is the weird part - I can still go down from there no problem". This is indicative of a big problem... You aren't doing the RI correctly if it is easy to go down, and thus you probably aren't getting the benefits from it.
Jeff Smilley Book was a breakthrought to me...I studied his method for 4 months and suddenly my embouchure unlocked...all the high notes and flexbilities praticed for year without progress, in a click, was working! I´m not american, I´m brazilian (south america), living in São Paulo (largest city in the country), I never met Jeff personally in my life...This method works! Be confident and don´t give up! It´s all about mind set...unconscious... take care!
If you want to see want I'm talking about, check out the post titled "After seven years of BE...". What the author describes as a monumental accopmlishment is, in reality, an embouchure that doesn't function. Absolutely ridiculous. I kinda feel sorry for the guy...It's about time more people said 'The emperor has no clothes'.
By the way, eartropmpette, you sound great in the video you posted ! Much better than Bert Lochs (Staunch BE desciple) , I might add.
So, Tadd, you don't like my playing then, ey? Well, I don't care. There are lots of people who think otherwise.
@ eartrompette: might I remind you of the fact that you turned to me for help. Nobody forced you to do anything. I put time in it just to try and help you. I never promised a thing! I talked you out of coming to Holland, but I couldn't talk you out of using BE totally wrong. Not very grateful might I add. But well, that is how people are sometimes. Nice playing BTW.
Ah, this already sounds much better :-): BE doesn't suck, but it didn't work for you. That's a big difference. There is of course the possibility that it didn't work, no dogmatism from me here, but there is always the possibility that you didn't apply it right, which I see happening all too often.
I teach a lot of people, and the method has proven to give an excellent success rate. And yes, there are people for whom BE just doesn't fit for whatever reason.
Yes, dogmatism is dangerous, I agree. Jeff isn't dogmatic, he is just a good pedagogue. He could have stated that "BE works for a lot of people, but not all', but what would that bring? That is not what all other 'great' methods claim. They all claim that this or that is the best method possible, and that is how it should be, because if you start with the assumption of failure, you are never going to win. That's the only reason Jeff put it on the cover, not out of dogmatism.
I don't know the official method, but here are my suggestions:
Try making the high pitched squeal using just your lips. Closing your throat off might help - like for circular breathing. Once you can do that, practice to control the aperture so that the squeal comes from a small area - where you'll place the mouthpiece, of course.
Once you can do that, practice the squeal with breath support, rather than closing the throat.
BE are exercises, nothing more. Just like Caruso, Clarke, etc. It helps to make your lips stronger and work more efficiently. It helps to change your lips focus. Jeff might exaggerate when he says simple, those of us who have been playing for years (and years) are entrenched in our habits. Those habits are hard to break. Let yourself go to the bizarre feeling of BE. It will help your playing. Just don't expect it to work over night (or over month for that matter).
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
Also, Mr. Smiley doesn't kick people off the forum for getting frustrated and asking how to approach specific problems. If you have trouble then ask ask ask... and he has no reason to kick you off.
Well, I recently started BE, and the roll out is coming along nicely. The guy in this video needs to breath MORE AIR and blow! Listen to the CD... full length notes.
But anyway, the roll in is pretty challenging for me. But I'm willing to give it time; after all, that's how I'm still playing music today.
Mr. Smiley tells us in the book that some things will be hard and take more time, but everyone eventually gets it. I ask you skeptics: Did you follow directions and use good practice ethic?
Yep, basically BE doesn't work. You me and countless other intelligent adults out there can't perform the supposedly "simple" exercises. And if you try and explain this to the Smiley marketing machine over at trumpetherald, Smiley will get frowny with you and your bad press and bully you off the forum. Either that or he'll suggest you fly to another country for a "BE checkup," even though the book cover says "easy to learn... for every trumpeter" and makes no mention of international flights.
I'm stuggling with range, and have been for a long time. I'm considering BE, but it's 50 bucks so I'm just scared to order it if it's useless. In your opinion, what makes its exercises hard to play?
A lot of people simply cannot perform the "simple" exercises. In my case, I couldn't perform the roll-in exercises. The structure of my mouth prohibits it.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
Sorry but I don't buy that for one second. How long did you do the exercises before you gave up? Many people have difficulty with RI at first, I know I did. I was also very frustrated but I kept practicing and even before I could do RI well, my regular playing had improved. It took a while but now I can play the RI exercises well.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
I wasn't saying anything about what works and what doesn't; I was saying that I didn't believe that his mouth structure somehow prohibits him from doing the exercises.
Also, BE doesn't prohibit a flat chin but does discourage pulling back your chin.
I don't know if BE really works for everyone but I haven't met anybody that didn't benefit from it. Of course you have to be patient enough to learn and play the exercises!
I gave up after 2 years of practising, or rather, 'attempting' to practice the exercises. Online videos were posted to Smiley and co. Endless advice was given. Nothing improved.
How many different mouth structures have you examined to reach your scientific conclusion? Or, rather than scientific, is this just a bit of a 'hunch' on your part?
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
What scientific conclusion or hunch are you talking about? You're the only one making broad statements. I believe I made it clear that I was talking about my own experience and observations of people I know. You should do the same.
Hey man, I just read your reply and had to comment. I too, am a 'victim' of the balanced embouchure, which I practiced diligently for a couple of years. suffice to say, it left me physically and emotionally scarred. Although I followed jeff's advice to the letter (I had several skype lessons with him and with other BE 'experts') and read the book several times, I made no progress whatsoever.
Hey Tadd, just read your message. Thanks for your witness. I thought I was alone but it looks like more and more victims of BE are coming forward and speaking out.
I certainly understand the physical and emotional scarring my friend, believe me, and I agree wholeheartedly about Smiley's ego.
What makes the whole BE experience even more bitter is when you eventually wise to the fact that the system is simply not working and Smiley unleashes is wrath.
Yes, BE is charlatanism at its best ! (or worst). I've been thinking of starting an 'Anti- BE' forum or blog, but that won't give me back the two or more years of my life that I wasted trying to learn this method. I just want to move on with my life (and with trumpet playing).
The 'Unbalanced Embouchure' guys don't realize it, but a post by one of their own (Larrios) , proves that their method is worthless. Any accomplished (and rational) trumpet player will recognize this.
I dont understand...why not just just breathe and blow? All this roll in and out and squeak and breathing through the nose stuff seems just too complicated. Being a trumpet player myself, I found that making something as simple as possible fixes most things. Trumpet-ing really is just breathing and blowing/buzzing.
That's what I used to think, and now I'm not sure. This is totally out of curiosity... When learning the trumpet, did you ever find yourself stuck and not able to get your range above the staff? Cuz that's my problem. I practice every day, good practice sessions I think, and I still struggle with "G"s on top of the staff. Any advice from personal experience?
dude,on roll in do a squeak before you put the mouth piece on your embouchure and then keep it their dont move it for any reason breath with your nose after every note and when you go down to an f# do the squeak again, you know the purpose of it is to work out the aperture muscles so you have more control high to low and low to high with the same embouchure, but your roll outs are pretty good man i dont doubt at all that your gonna be a good player. good job.
Well, you're not using enough air, for starters. If you took a full three-step breath, you might be able to generate the airspeed you need to continue playing in the middle register in the middle of the exercise. Also, RELAX RELAX RELAX!
Please, read about Maurice André and Bud Herseth, for example, and you do not find that kind of "mental-roll-in". Keep it simple. See Vizzutti's video of Yamaha, when he put the horn in his head, making a parody of that "complex" methods. Good luck.
tpt005 9 months ago
What a nothing of a player!
poopoo111222333 1 year ago
I have been playing the trumpet over 40 years, with a big step improvement the last few years after studying the BE method from Jef Smiley and the help through on line support from Bert Lochs, I still regret that I did not met this method earlier to improve my embouchure. I fully agree with the explanation from Mr. Jumbo, which also covers the help I got from Bert Lochs.
Piccolodixie 1 year ago
This is a counterfeit method. Complete crap. Non of the finest players use this crap.
Please find a good old school teacher and start over.
If anyone thinks that these (be) people sound good or have any control or refinement, you are just totally ignorant of the highest ideals.
poopoo111222333 1 year ago
When playing pedal tones, do NOT position mouthpiece to the side of your mouth. This restricts the amount of top lip you get into the mouthpiece. Keep mouthpiece centered. When playing pedal tones you should have almost all of your top lip inside of mouthpiece. Very little bottom lip should be involved. As you play pedal tones, "perch" your lips in an outward fashion like giving a big kiss. Push lower jaw forward and tilt bell upward. Use lots of air and take it slowly & softly. Open throat.
kenzo5716 1 year ago
I think most of the anti-BE posts here are from people who don't understand how the method works. You aren't supposed to actually play with a super rolled in embouchure. You're supposed to play just like you normally play and not even think about BE except for when you're doing the exercises. Your embouchure is supposed to gradually change over time. You still go along doing your normal practice routine. If you spent a year doing nothing but BE exercises, you were doing it wrong...
MrJombo22 1 year ago 2
Gmac, i don't know if you're still working with BE, but at 2:52 you say "here is the weird part - I can still go down from there no problem". This is indicative of a big problem... You aren't doing the RI correctly if it is easy to go down, and thus you probably aren't getting the benefits from it.
MrJombo22 1 year ago
Jeff Smilley Book was a breakthrought to me...I studied his method for 4 months and suddenly my embouchure unlocked...all the high notes and flexbilities praticed for year without progress, in a click, was working! I´m not american, I´m brazilian (south america), living in São Paulo (largest city in the country), I never met Jeff personally in my life...This method works! Be confident and don´t give up! It´s all about mind set...unconscious... take care!
sommetal 1 year ago
i'm curious about the BE book, but I don't feel like sending $50 for a book I can't even look at before I buy.
THere's another dude on youtube who using the BE method, plays good high g's.
If it's not working, maybe a more conventional embouchure is better. Your petal tones are good, but the high notes aren't quite working yet.
Have there been improvements since starting the BE method?
rk2qt 1 year ago
I started with the callet system, and its wonderful never struggled with the trumpet.
loren1283 1 year ago
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tadd1 2 years ago
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tadd1 2 years ago
If you want to see want I'm talking about, check out the post titled "After seven years of BE...". What the author describes as a monumental accopmlishment is, in reality, an embouchure that doesn't function. Absolutely ridiculous. I kinda feel sorry for the guy...It's about time more people said 'The emperor has no clothes'.
By the way, eartropmpette, you sound great in the video you posted ! Much better than Bert Lochs (Staunch BE desciple) , I might add.
Keep playing bro !
tadd1 2 years ago 2
So, Tadd, you don't like my playing then, ey? Well, I don't care. There are lots of people who think otherwise.
@ eartrompette: might I remind you of the fact that you turned to me for help. Nobody forced you to do anything. I put time in it just to try and help you. I never promised a thing! I talked you out of coming to Holland, but I couldn't talk you out of using BE totally wrong. Not very grateful might I add. But well, that is how people are sometimes. Nice playing BTW.
Bert Lochs
Hubjazz 2 years ago
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tadd1 2 years ago
Ah, this already sounds much better :-): BE doesn't suck, but it didn't work for you. That's a big difference. There is of course the possibility that it didn't work, no dogmatism from me here, but there is always the possibility that you didn't apply it right, which I see happening all too often.
I teach a lot of people, and the method has proven to give an excellent success rate. And yes, there are people for whom BE just doesn't fit for whatever reason.
Hubjazz 2 years ago
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tadd1 2 years ago
Yes, dogmatism is dangerous, I agree. Jeff isn't dogmatic, he is just a good pedagogue. He could have stated that "BE works for a lot of people, but not all', but what would that bring? That is not what all other 'great' methods claim. They all claim that this or that is the best method possible, and that is how it should be, because if you start with the assumption of failure, you are never going to win. That's the only reason Jeff put it on the cover, not out of dogmatism.
Hubjazz 2 years ago
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tadd1 2 years ago 3
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zappacrappa2 2 years ago 3
Thanks for posting this :)
I don't know the official method, but here are my suggestions:
Try making the high pitched squeal using just your lips. Closing your throat off might help - like for circular breathing. Once you can do that, practice to control the aperture so that the squeal comes from a small area - where you'll place the mouthpiece, of course.
Once you can do that, practice the squeal with breath support, rather than closing the throat.
Oops, outta space - good post :)
Anaclypse 2 years ago
BE are exercises, nothing more. Just like Caruso, Clarke, etc. It helps to make your lips stronger and work more efficiently. It helps to change your lips focus. Jeff might exaggerate when he says simple, those of us who have been playing for years (and years) are entrenched in our habits. Those habits are hard to break. Let yourself go to the bizarre feeling of BE. It will help your playing. Just don't expect it to work over night (or over month for that matter).
ckhconn1 2 years ago
practice doesn't make perfect, perfect practice makes perfect. once i reliezed this, everything started to work.
Jazzfreak251 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Also, Mr. Smiley doesn't kick people off the forum for getting frustrated and asking how to approach specific problems. If you have trouble then ask ask ask... and he has no reason to kick you off.
dtingleff 3 years ago
Well, I recently started BE, and the roll out is coming along nicely. The guy in this video needs to breath MORE AIR and blow! Listen to the CD... full length notes.
But anyway, the roll in is pretty challenging for me. But I'm willing to give it time; after all, that's how I'm still playing music today.
Mr. Smiley tells us in the book that some things will be hard and take more time, but everyone eventually gets it. I ask you skeptics: Did you follow directions and use good practice ethic?
dtingleff 3 years ago
Yep, basically BE doesn't work. You me and countless other intelligent adults out there can't perform the supposedly "simple" exercises. And if you try and explain this to the Smiley marketing machine over at trumpetherald, Smiley will get frowny with you and your bad press and bully you off the forum. Either that or he'll suggest you fly to another country for a "BE checkup," even though the book cover says "easy to learn... for every trumpeter" and makes no mention of international flights.
eartrompette 3 years ago 4
I'm stuggling with range, and have been for a long time. I'm considering BE, but it's 50 bucks so I'm just scared to order it if it's useless. In your opinion, what makes its exercises hard to play?
dtingleff 3 years ago
A lot of people simply cannot perform the "simple" exercises. In my case, I couldn't perform the roll-in exercises. The structure of my mouth prohibits it.
eartrompette 3 years ago 5
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Sorry but I don't buy that for one second. How long did you do the exercises before you gave up? Many people have difficulty with RI at first, I know I did. I was also very frustrated but I kept practicing and even before I could do RI well, my regular playing had improved. It took a while but now I can play the RI exercises well.
znine 3 years ago
well if the flat chin doesnt work for everyone like it doesnt work for oyu, obivously this wont work for everyone
IncendiaryPistonOil 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
I wasn't saying anything about what works and what doesn't; I was saying that I didn't believe that his mouth structure somehow prohibits him from doing the exercises.
Also, BE doesn't prohibit a flat chin but does discourage pulling back your chin.
I don't know if BE really works for everyone but I haven't met anybody that didn't benefit from it. Of course you have to be patient enough to learn and play the exercises!
znine 3 years ago
i meant the traditional flat chin normal embouchure
ive benefitted in 1 day just from lc, i could squeak a few higher lmao
IncendiaryPistonOil 3 years ago
I gave up after 2 years of practising, or rather, 'attempting' to practice the exercises. Online videos were posted to Smiley and co. Endless advice was given. Nothing improved.
How many different mouth structures have you examined to reach your scientific conclusion? Or, rather than scientific, is this just a bit of a 'hunch' on your part?
eartrompette 3 years ago 7
This comment has received too many negative votes show
What scientific conclusion or hunch are you talking about? You're the only one making broad statements. I believe I made it clear that I was talking about my own experience and observations of people I know. You should do the same.
znine 3 years ago
@eartrompette
Hey man, I just read your reply and had to comment. I too, am a 'victim' of the balanced embouchure, which I practiced diligently for a couple of years. suffice to say, it left me physically and emotionally scarred. Although I followed jeff's advice to the letter (I had several skype lessons with him and with other BE 'experts') and read the book several times, I made no progress whatsoever.
I believe jeff's ego got the best of him.
caveat emptor
tadd1 2 years ago 4
Hey Tadd, just read your message. Thanks for your witness. I thought I was alone but it looks like more and more victims of BE are coming forward and speaking out.
I certainly understand the physical and emotional scarring my friend, believe me, and I agree wholeheartedly about Smiley's ego.
What makes the whole BE experience even more bitter is when you eventually wise to the fact that the system is simply not working and Smiley unleashes is wrath.
We should start a BE victim forum.
eartrompette 2 years ago 3
@eartrompette
Yes, BE is charlatanism at its best ! (or worst). I've been thinking of starting an 'Anti- BE' forum or blog, but that won't give me back the two or more years of my life that I wasted trying to learn this method. I just want to move on with my life (and with trumpet playing).
The 'Unbalanced Embouchure' guys don't realize it, but a post by one of their own (Larrios) , proves that their method is worthless. Any accomplished (and rational) trumpet player will recognize this.
tadd1 2 years ago 4
@eartrompette Maybe you should buy trumpet secrets by jerome callet. Its great!
loren1283 10 months ago
I dont understand...why not just just breathe and blow? All this roll in and out and squeak and breathing through the nose stuff seems just too complicated. Being a trumpet player myself, I found that making something as simple as possible fixes most things. Trumpet-ing really is just breathing and blowing/buzzing.
jazzmangiant 3 years ago
That's what I used to think, and now I'm not sure. This is totally out of curiosity... When learning the trumpet, did you ever find yourself stuck and not able to get your range above the staff? Cuz that's my problem. I practice every day, good practice sessions I think, and I still struggle with "G"s on top of the staff. Any advice from personal experience?
dtingleff 3 years ago
dude,on roll in do a squeak before you put the mouth piece on your embouchure and then keep it their dont move it for any reason breath with your nose after every note and when you go down to an f# do the squeak again, you know the purpose of it is to work out the aperture muscles so you have more control high to low and low to high with the same embouchure, but your roll outs are pretty good man i dont doubt at all that your gonna be a good player. good job.
firethunder33 3 years ago
Well, you're not using enough air, for starters. If you took a full three-step breath, you might be able to generate the airspeed you need to continue playing in the middle register in the middle of the exercise. Also, RELAX RELAX RELAX!
Gjordus 3 years ago
I Love You embouchure.
NOT!!!
spikebizkit 3 years ago