"he represented except prolong the inevitable, which was closure, in fact, when the dust settled and the yards closed...." Lads, lads, lads, if you're going to spew out the hatred for Jimmy, make sure your info is accurate. 3 shipyards closed. Two remained open - to this day. The whole idea of letting pure economic forces guide our way, is feeble. The government doesn't understand innovation or how innovation (and its need of financial support) drives economies and wealth creation. Not closures.
As for the comment about Scargill, et al. Scargill wanted anarchy. Which is all very well and noble when you pitch the entire nation into darkness, cold and unemployment. And now today, the re-emergence of coal demand, Thatcher and other analytical economists speak of 'regret' of shutting down the entire industry and what the cost was to prop up so many ex-miners' lives on the dole. Jimmy said "work to rule" - it was a moderative stance and it worked in part. Life isn't black and white.
"Jimmy did nothing for the workers"........ you should ask the workers of the remaining two shipyards (which have been open since then for the last 40years) if this was true. We need to keep a knowledge of shipbuilding in this country. It is used for modern defence ordinance, to protect our shores. And much of the skills in heavy industry, as has been seen in Aberdeen (during the last ten years decline in oil extraction, is jobs going into a rapidly growing new environmental power industry.
Jesus, I cannot believe what I am reading below. It's just pure cynicism. Is no-one good? Is nothing good? If so, how do any of you know the difference between right and wrong. Everyone is fallible.
The Asian shipyards could churn out cheaper ships. But what Jimmy was fighting for was the preservation of skills. The Tory government at the time simply wanted to switch the 5yards down overnight. That is simply massive disruption to a community which leads to hunger, crime, poverty.
The Jimmy Reid that I knew was an Atheist, but was quick to quote, and misquote the Bible when it suited him. Jimmy grasp the hour, and in doing so, became famous, he did nothing for the workers that he represented except prolong the inevitable, which was closure, in fact, when the dust settled and the yards closed, he was the only one who came up smelling of roses, He had so many iron in the fire that he, and his family would not go hungry unlike the union members he represented.
@togglesblock - I agree, but I'd go further. He took Rupert Murdoch's money to write in The Sun and attack Arthur Scargill and the striking miners. A treacherous self-seeking, pseudo-intellectual windbag, It wouldn't surprise me if he was on the CIA payroll, the Communist Party was full of them.
@CrankCase08 Yes, your probably right. Jimmy Reid used his members like one would use a step ladder, simply to get where he wanted to go.
I marched with this man in the 70's not knowing what he knew, and that was, that the yards would most definitely close because the Asian shipbuilders were turning out ships at a fraction of our price: So, Jimmy played to his world audience securing for himself a future as a journalist, and author, among other things;
@CrankCase08 It's worth noting that Scargill did not petition his members to see if they would strike...because he knew they'd vote against it. Reid might not have been flawless, but he was no worse than Scargill.
@gideonquinn The worth of holding a ballot or not is irrelevant. An overwhelming majority of the miners were striking. After the strike had started, Reid was attacking Scargill. and by attacking him he was also attacking the strike. Reid was being paid by The Sun to create divisions within the strike, and thereby also the labour movement in general. Reid chose to receive payment to disseminate his divisive views in a rabidly Thatcherite national newspaper.
@CrankCase08 They went on strike because their union told them to. Happens all the time. If your union tells you to strike, whether you voted for it or not, you strike. Remember, Thatcher had yet to pass the vote that scabs could not be thrown out of their union for crossing a picket line. So, the worth of holding a ballot is absolutely vital; if those strikers had been given a vote, most would have voted not to strike, and there wouldn't have been any industrial action.
@gideonquinn You are distorting history. The NUM had already voted by a large majority to give the Executive authority to call a strike. Unfortunately, you are suffering from a Daily Mail oriented memory. The argument later was about demands to call yet another ballot, which would have just wasted a load of money and time.
Oh I thought it would be the other Jim Reid
dfarmbrough 1 year ago
The struggle continues comrades,workers of all lands unite.
majorMcpharter 1 year ago
"he represented except prolong the inevitable, which was closure, in fact, when the dust settled and the yards closed...." Lads, lads, lads, if you're going to spew out the hatred for Jimmy, make sure your info is accurate. 3 shipyards closed. Two remained open - to this day. The whole idea of letting pure economic forces guide our way, is feeble. The government doesn't understand innovation or how innovation (and its need of financial support) drives economies and wealth creation. Not closures.
graeme0309 1 year ago
As for the comment about Scargill, et al. Scargill wanted anarchy. Which is all very well and noble when you pitch the entire nation into darkness, cold and unemployment. And now today, the re-emergence of coal demand, Thatcher and other analytical economists speak of 'regret' of shutting down the entire industry and what the cost was to prop up so many ex-miners' lives on the dole. Jimmy said "work to rule" - it was a moderative stance and it worked in part. Life isn't black and white.
graeme0309 1 year ago
"Jimmy did nothing for the workers"........ you should ask the workers of the remaining two shipyards (which have been open since then for the last 40years) if this was true. We need to keep a knowledge of shipbuilding in this country. It is used for modern defence ordinance, to protect our shores. And much of the skills in heavy industry, as has been seen in Aberdeen (during the last ten years decline in oil extraction, is jobs going into a rapidly growing new environmental power industry.
graeme0309 1 year ago
Jesus, I cannot believe what I am reading below. It's just pure cynicism. Is no-one good? Is nothing good? If so, how do any of you know the difference between right and wrong. Everyone is fallible.
The Asian shipyards could churn out cheaper ships. But what Jimmy was fighting for was the preservation of skills. The Tory government at the time simply wanted to switch the 5yards down overnight. That is simply massive disruption to a community which leads to hunger, crime, poverty.
graeme0309 1 year ago
Have you not heard the phrase 'If you've nothing decent to say, its best to say nothing.'
Especially when it comes to the dead.
KevvyT89 1 year ago
The Jimmy Reid that I knew was an Atheist, but was quick to quote, and misquote the Bible when it suited him. Jimmy grasp the hour, and in doing so, became famous, he did nothing for the workers that he represented except prolong the inevitable, which was closure, in fact, when the dust settled and the yards closed, he was the only one who came up smelling of roses, He had so many iron in the fire that he, and his family would not go hungry unlike the union members he represented.
togglesblock 1 year ago
@togglesblock - I agree, but I'd go further. He took Rupert Murdoch's money to write in The Sun and attack Arthur Scargill and the striking miners. A treacherous self-seeking, pseudo-intellectual windbag, It wouldn't surprise me if he was on the CIA payroll, the Communist Party was full of them.
CrankCase08 1 year ago
@CrankCase08 Yes, your probably right. Jimmy Reid used his members like one would use a step ladder, simply to get where he wanted to go.
I marched with this man in the 70's not knowing what he knew, and that was, that the yards would most definitely close because the Asian shipbuilders were turning out ships at a fraction of our price: So, Jimmy played to his world audience securing for himself a future as a journalist, and author, among other things;
but he is gone now, chapter closed.
togglesblock 1 year ago
@CrankCase08 It's worth noting that Scargill did not petition his members to see if they would strike...because he knew they'd vote against it. Reid might not have been flawless, but he was no worse than Scargill.
gideonquinn 1 year ago
@gideonquinn The worth of holding a ballot or not is irrelevant. An overwhelming majority of the miners were striking. After the strike had started, Reid was attacking Scargill. and by attacking him he was also attacking the strike. Reid was being paid by The Sun to create divisions within the strike, and thereby also the labour movement in general. Reid chose to receive payment to disseminate his divisive views in a rabidly Thatcherite national newspaper.
CrankCase08 1 year ago
@CrankCase08 They went on strike because their union told them to. Happens all the time. If your union tells you to strike, whether you voted for it or not, you strike. Remember, Thatcher had yet to pass the vote that scabs could not be thrown out of their union for crossing a picket line. So, the worth of holding a ballot is absolutely vital; if those strikers had been given a vote, most would have voted not to strike, and there wouldn't have been any industrial action.
gideonquinn 1 year ago
@gideonquinn You are distorting history. The NUM had already voted by a large majority to give the Executive authority to call a strike. Unfortunately, you are suffering from a Daily Mail oriented memory. The argument later was about demands to call yet another ballot, which would have just wasted a load of money and time.
CrankCase08 1 year ago