No it is a hate group. Like how the southern supporters of slavery in the late 1800s thought they were just defending there way of life. It really isn't worth debate because the world is always pressing forward and once freedom is finally granted to all, the world cannot back step. Enjoy your time of discrimination becasue in the next 20 years it will all be gone.
I'm from Massachusetts. We were the first to legalize same-sex marriage, and I'm happy to report that allowing gay people to marry hasn't utterly destroyed the fabric of our existence. Actually, it hasn't changed anything at all except to make many gay couples very happy.
Seriously, heterosexual people aren't affected in any meaningful way by gay marriage. It's just a philosophical debate to us. But it means the world to gay people. What right do we have to interfere with their happiness?
@sleepyrodent I know many people who have been affected in a negative way by gay marriage in Massachusetts. Redefining marriage is much more than just philosophical. And yes, there are things that are more important than feelings. Feelings change.... the core institution of society...marriage between one man and one woman...should not.
@derekpackard Can you please elaborate on your statement that you know heterosexual people who've been negatively affected by gay marriage?
Gay marriage isn't just about feelings (though that is the most important aspect of it). It's about the principles our country was founded on. Liberty and justice FOR ALL, all men are created EQUAL, etc. Denying a minority a civil right the rest of the country enjoys (for no compelling reason) is contrary to those beliefs. It's not right.
The latest example would be Peter Vidala who was fired from his job as a manager at the Brookstone store in Logan Airport after he made comments against same-sex marriage to another manager. If gays really were upstanding citizens they would support the free speech of Christians, instead they whine "hateful biggot" and "homophobic" everytime anyone disagrees with their "right" to marry someone of the same sex. Legal same sex marriage in Mass cost this guy his job. So much for your theory.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but people should exercise common sense when expressing their opinions in the workplace. Mr. Vidala has the right to state his beliefs, but Brookstone also has the right to make sure its employees aren't alienating customers and other employees. Mr. Vidala should have picked a more appropriate forum to express himself.
It's rather hypocritical of Christians to complain about their rights being infringed upon when they're doing the same to gay people.
This whole thing is a joke. Yes on One is illegal. It is 100 percent illegal and whther gays can marry today or in fifty years doesn't matter because, yes on one will go down as a hate group. No On ONE!
Last I checked, marriage is about love and not about religious ideology. If two men or woman love each other, then why stop them from getting married. Not everyone is religous and marriage was around long before any of the major religions. Stop trying to tell other people how to live especially if it doesn't affect you.
God. The all mighty, all powerful, all knowing, infallible creator of the entire universe, and those 10 rules are the best he can come up with? That's it? Really?That right there has to be proof that there is no God.
Religion is nothing more than Primitive Superstition. The Bible is an elaborate book of fiction. All religion and faith in a non existant god does is create a fog. It muddies up the water so the real truth is difficult to see. America will never be truly free or truly great until we grow up and leave these silly beliefs behind. I no longer believe in Santa Claus, The Easter Bunny or The Tooth Fairy. Add God to that list. I'm not a child anymore.
I am sorry but not all of this country is christain. Has anyone forgotten that?! This country is supposed to be founded on the idea that you can come and make your dream come true. Well my dream is leading a decent and wholesome life with my boyfriend. not to cause harm to anyone, just to be able to have some happiness while i am on this earth. Has this country become such a sheltered mass that we cant tell our children that boys can like boys and girls can like girls, but is is up to that child
Hi Derek, you've got a bunch of interesting videos up here.
Just a quick question, as it doesn't look like it's been raised in this video's comments:
Why not separate Marriage from law and government, and place it solely in the hands of religious institutions to hand out?
That way, the sanctity of marriage is upheld, and IMHO restored, allowing churches to decide who to give such ceremonies to. This would also prevent any discrimination as marriage would fall solely under religious practice.
Ah, the Family Research Council, one of the big players in the Christian mafia. But like all the others, it depends on using gay bashing and spreading lies about gay people as a fund raising tool. I'm sure Tony Perkins is scared to death of gay marriage passing in Maine because it means the beginning of the end for gay bashing as a revenue source.
Vote No on 1 and put a stop to the Christian Taliban.
Is your belief in the bible so weak you must ram it down others throats and dictate to them how you believe they should live? It certainly appears so.
You should get a bulldog - you already look and sound like one. "Dude".
I haven't deleted you .... yet. You really just seem to be very angry... like many of the gay persuasion... angry and bigoted toward us who want to preserve marriage as an covenant between a man and a woman.
I've noticed the activists just switch to a different state when they fail in another. Why do the legislatures keep trying to legalize it when the public consistently shows they don't want it?
@prestda1 It has to do with the amazing power of gay activists in this country and the money they make sure winds up in the hands of those legislators.
You have an interesting point - yes, there are gay people who are married with kids - unfortunately it is due to ignorant bigots like yourself who believe they have all the answers -just listen to you and your small minded stupidity. PS - don't cast dispersions on my intellect when you are calling me "dude". Denigration of the english language.
Christians of your ilk are hardly human, much less Christian.
Hey thanks for even bringing up the 10 commandments. A core source of our laws in America. The big 10 were posted in many public places for decades as a source of guiding principles on behavior. Why none of the 10 deal with homosexuality. The first one is we shall have no other God's but the God of the Bible. God is the one who says marriage is between male and female. And God, why he loves every homosexual, condemns sex acts between same sex couples in the same way he condemns adultery.
Hey people make mistakes...right? But in all those you have listed.... it's all male and female. No culture or civilization has ever been so ignorant of the basic laws of nature as to think of comparing male to male sex as the same thing as the union of a man and a woman. Let's not start now.
Manray...does 05 mean you only got through the 5th grade or what? If our laws are based on Roman law that where are the statues of Caesar? It is the 10 commandments monuments that have caused all the fuss. They have been there for a long time because that is the standard for our law. Witness swear to tell the truth with a hand on a bible...not a Roman toga. Dude wake up. Even the anti-christ knows that.
Tony Perkins is a liar, and you are a fraud for propagating this horse manure. This has nothing to do with any "radical minorities" or "protecting families" or "morality." This has EVERYTHING to do with civil rights and equal treatment under the law. That is why, even though I live in California, I am donating to the NO ON 1 campaign in Maine, and will be doing fundraising for it as well. This mirrors the battle in California, where haters used LIES and FEAR to appeal to the basest in people.
All of this money and time spent on denying rights to others could very well be spent to HELP people who are in need - children, homeless, battered women....shame especially on the churchess who support such nonsense.
MA has offered s.s.marriages for over 5 years and the world hasn't crumbled. in fact, they have one of the lowest divorce rates in america! GO MAINE!
"strip others of their rights". What a joke. Gays have the same rights as anybody else already. It's giving them special rights that I am against. Special rights like redefining marriage. Special rights like transgenders going into any bathroom they feel like male or female. Special rights like the gov deciding what someone "thought" when they committed a crime. Gays are experts at getting special rights. The rest of society needs to wake up to that fact.
"Gays have the same rights as anybody else already."
-- Most folks understand quite clearly that laws like the one you propose are aimed at gays specifically and are specifically designed to keep them from marrying. To pretend otherwise is just silly.
You would do better to spend your time trying to justify why you think it's important to have the government discriminate against one minority group of your neighbors. I certainly don't see a reason in this video.
laws like the one proposed are simply restoring what has been in place forever. So why all the ranting about taking away rights....no one has ever had the long standing right to marry someone of the same sex. Find another word but don't use the word marriage.
Special rights? You rely on ignorant stereotypes and right wind talking points, think for yourself. If you were stripped of the ritght to be married, would you miss it?
You don't know what it is until you don't have it, then you understand what is missing. Equal treatment in the eyes of the law.
Can you get married? Yes. Can gay people get married? No.
Equal?? Special right? It appears it is your special right, not ours.
Since gays have never had the "right" to marry in any civilization I would say that granting that right now would be a special new right.
Gays have not had the right because they can't be married in the way males and females can. The plumbing issue prohibits that. Gender is incredibly important and celebrated in marriage. Therefore call your unions something else...but it is not traditional marriage.
The united states was founded predominantly by christians who were seeking a land of religious freedom. While I do not expect state to mandate that churches marry same sex couples, it is this nations obligation to affirm the right of marriage to couples of all walks. Churches may choose not to marry gay couples, but the state must recognize ALL marriages. Otherwise, the American dream can never be realized.
It should be noted that using any theology to govern violates the First Ammendment.
Finally, an intelligent and thought provoking comment. Thankyou. About the state's obligation to affirm the right to marriage to all couples... think about that as the main criteria... that means the door is open to anyone defining marriage as anything they personally feel is right for them. Brother, sister, Father and son, man and horse, any why just two...why not 10 partners... it seems like their should be a boundary and male and female makes the most sense for many reasons.
Dude you live in a box or what? Gay people can marry a person of the opposite sex just like I can...same rights. Marriage is not about your feelings... it's about the future of our society. A society where men and women get married cause that's the way we are designed as human beings. Many thousands of "gays" are happily married to opposite sex partners and even have their own kids. What a concept.
No, who cares what I believe in?! Look, my point was that America is not a Christian country, or Muslim or Jewish or Bhuddist or Atheist. Regardless of who is in the majority.
I care what you believe in. But my point was you say America is not a Christian country and Obama said that. Yet that statement is dubious unless you define it. We don't have a theocracy here, religious rule in Gov. But we are a nation where about 80% of the citizens call themselves Christians so we are a nation full of Christians...a Christian nation. When an issue is debated most will have some form of Christian perspective on it. Some Christians think gay marriage is ok, most don't.
I agree. Homosexuals by definition can't have kids biologically. They really can't even consumate the "marriage" biologically. Plumbing is there by design and male and female should be honored not violated.
There are thousands upon thousands of kids who need adopting. You would be denying marriage to ALL kinds of people with your case - infertile women, older people, people who do not want to have kids. Don't confuse your "reasoning" for truth.
Where are these roaming bands of kid-snatching homos? You're putting a sinister face on adoption, perhaps one of the most selfless of acts imaginable. When there's plenty of people in the world that should be sterilized, fit parents owe it to the orphans of earth to be good role models to them.
My fiancee was adopted, btw. If adoption is "stealing", should my future in-laws be prosecuted for their egregious crime?
Not sure what your point is here but religious freedom is certainly something I support. You say you are Jewish. Do you mean you practice a Jewish faith that is based on the Torah and the 10 Commandments etc.? If so, do you believe your God has no problem with homosexual marriage?
You are a very disgusting group of people. The only reason why you are fighting against gay people is because you have a severe case of intolerance and hatred, rooted in religion of course. Every message you put out there is nothing but lies and deceit. Thats the best thing you people do. Im sure mainers are more intelligent than that and will realize gay marriage hurts anyone but adds a lot for and to the community.
Actually we are a very loving group of people who care enough about you to say something when you are doing things that are damaging to your body and your future. Eternity is very long time. You really need to live with God's best for you in mind.
Oh you live in a delusional world, where your hatred is masqueraded in what you call "love" but its FAR from being love. We do nothing that damages our body, but you people do very bad things that damage innocent people's souls and just want to make everyone elses, who disagrees with your insane views, as miserable as you can.
If you prefer to live your life according to a bronze-age myth book, thats your problem. Just keep your insane beliefs out of my life and the others who dont agree w/u.
Sorry, we are all in this together. We need timeless, higher standards, so we can all aspire to something. Otherwise we have the chaos of everybody making up their own ideas of what love and family is. That is a recipe for disaster. That's why the the 10 commandments are engraved on the doors of the Supreme Court and why every court session starts with the marshall saying "God save this honorable court". Our laws are based on God's standard, not our opinions.
The "timeless, higher standard" your kind want to impose is those of a book of myths 2000 years old. This is the 21st century. The only recipe for disaster are religious fundamentalist like yourself who want to see this country go back in time to biblical times. Very pathetic.
Our laws based on some imaginary character? You may lead your life based on those rules you talk about. However this is a secular country. If you want a theocracy, Iran is your place.
OKay. You can tell us that we can believe in different religions, but you can tell us that we shouldn't have equal rights for Family and marriage. THE CHURCH IS SEPARATE FROM THE STATE. The Church Should Not Decide Whether or Not we Should Have Gay Rights!
yeah the Opposite sex, but not the same sex. If Straight people get equal rights, if races get same rights, gays should get same rights too. Watch my video and you'll hear a story about gays not having equal rights
You've GOT to be kidding. The Bible defines marriage as "one man and one woman?" Really? Who are you kidding? King Solomon had 700 wives. What was the punishment for a man guilty of raping a woman? You got it, marriage!
Your idea of "marriage" being defined by the church is a ridiculous notion. Like Christmas and Easter, marriage was a celebratory ritual performed by PAGANS! Yes, Christmas and Easter were BOTH
Hey at least you are attempting to use the bible to support your claims ... that's good. Granted the Old Testament tells of many cultural traditions including multiple wives. But you'll never find a man marrying another man. Because same sex couple can't really have a marriage. They can't consumate it for biological reasons. It's not marriage.
What if the majority voted that America is a Christian Country. Would Jews have to be thrown out of it? What if the majority voted to go back to black slavery? Are you asking to get rid of all civil marriages, because gays are not against religious marriages. If anything THIS type of conservative Christian reaction is a threat to religious freedoms since there are plenty of Churches who perform same-sex marriages already. I wouldn't like to live in a Christian Taliban. Its un-american.
Since over 80% of America call themselves Christians it's safe to say America is a Christian nation and always has been. Gays already have the same marriage rights as anyone else.... to allow same sex marriage is phony because gays really can't have a marriage in the most basic social terms.... a man and a woman uniting physically and monogamously for life...
"Gays already have the same marriage rights as anyone else"
Its funny when you people say that. It really seems that gays value the real meaning of marriage more than you do.
"to allow same sex marriage is phony because gays really can't have a marriage in the most basic social terms.... a man and a woman uniting physically and monogamously for life..."
I know many gay couples who live that way. Also I guess str8 swingers arent part of your definition, yet society lets them marry... hummm...
"Gays already have the same marriage rights as anyone else"
Its funny when you people say that. It really seems that gays value the real meaning of marriage more than you do.
"to allow same sex marriage is phony because gays really can't have a marriage in the most basic social terms.... a man and a woman uniting physically and monogamously for life..."
I know many gay couples who live that way. Also I guess str8 swingers arent part of your definition, yet society lets them marry... hummm...
yes the majority of americans consider themselves christians, but america is not a christian nation. the separation of church and state in our constitution make america a secular nation. the most basic of social terms? two men or two women can unite physically and monogamously for life.
Is the gay bubble so thin and fragile that no one can bring to question the validity of efforts to redefine the foundational institution of society without you freaking out?
That *was* a pretty epic freakout, huh? Looking back on all the ranting and raving I did in that last post of mine, I suppose it was rather excessive. But I digress....
Homosexuality as the last remaining socially acceptable prejudice is really rather unacceptable. I just think society needs to wise up and embrace the change; embracing bigotry is harmful to a free society like ours.
Believe me I do appreciate your sense of humor based on most of what I get from these videos. Society has embraced gays, but not redefining marriage. Homosexuals are given given special status legally...perhaps too much so with the bathroom laws for anyone who might be confused about gender . Bigotry goes both ways my friend. I can say based on personal experience on YouTube that gays are much more bigoted toward Christians than Christians are toward gays. Disagreement is not bigotry.
"I can say based on personal experience on YouTube that gays are much more bigoted toward Christians than Christians are toward gays. Disagreement is not bigotry."
But if disagreement is not bigotry, your statement is sorta negated. I have never experienced actual homosexual bigotry towards Christians. There is resentment there, yes - but it's warrented, as many Christians are so caught up in their own bigotry that they actually will twist scripture around to attempt to make it back their own
(cont'd) twisted rhetoric. I say this as a lifelong Christian myself: the way Christians treat homosexuals is *ridiculous*. Disagreement with a lifestyle is in no way just cause for trying to strip others of their rights and constantly accusing them of living a sinful lifestyle. No doubt about it: gays may resent Christians for the way they treat gays, but there's certainly no bigotry there. Only tension that is, unfortunately, quite warranted.
I still dont understand how gay marriage hurts YOU. If the churches are not required to marry two people of the same sex if they dont want to, how can it involve YOU at all?
I think, politically, the Prop 8 people could have handled it better. Too bad people are deined the right to marry the adult person of thier choice because of poor organizational skills. I have confidence that one day, it will happen.
It's not about ME, it's about defining the SOCIAL PRECEDENT of traditional marriage. Doesn't make much sense to start calling it something else...
Now, we could remove marriage out of the civic arena--and just refer to committed relationships between two consenting adults- 'unions'. That seems to pass the smell test- maybe I'm wrong.
I've heard many people suggest this on both sides. I would be fine with it, and I suspect most gay people would be fine with it. Though I think there would be some bitterness from conservatives over the issue. "They couldn't get marriage, so they're trying to take it away from everyone" etc. etc. Personally I think it's just a semantics issue. Why do people care so much about the word marriage vs. the word union?
Well, you make a good point, why do gays need 'marriage'. Well, perhaps it has to do with legitimizing ALL the rights of hetero couples, such as adoption. That is why 'unions' won't do- because they want ALL the bells and whistles that come naturally from heterosexual relationships--so they want everyone else to provide those bells and whistles instead of living with the consequences of choosing a gay lifestyle. Why not OWN your choices?
But would you give up your husband willingly? If your God came down today and said, "Hey, too many people in the world. All hetrosexual relationships are now abomination."...
I never said the attraction was a choice...you are putting words in my mouth.
If a dinosaur came down and squashed my house....yeah, there are some things that just won't happen, but for intellectual honesty's sake--of course, I would do anything He asked me to--and you are assuming that I haven't had challenges in life that required this very thing...;)
You are right. You never said attraction is a choice (my fingers fly too fast sometimes). But you did say the lifestyle is a choice. Thats where I have a problem.
According to you (if I'm not mistaken) they can fall in love, live together, buy a home together, go to church together, be sexual together, but cannot get married.
Pretty much. What they do in their personal lives is their business, and their choice--and yes, lifestyle is a choice, so if they want to be with the same gender, they are making the choice to NOT marry- under the definition of marriage- again THEIR choice.
when they want to redefine social institutions that effect everyone, that's where it becomes a problem
OK, so they want to 're-define' marriage. Words acquire new definitions everyday.
But how does that re-definition change hetrosexual marriage? I could see your concern if the re-definition would be changed to ONLY gay marriage. But since it doesn't do that, whats the big deal?
The big deal is that marriage is an institution defined by the federal government because it involves the protection of CHILDREN. Why do gays need the government defining their relationships? They don't because it involves two adults...but marriage more often than not, involves children...the need to protect children is at the heart of the government institution of marriage.
CHILDREN is one of the issues gay marriage would solve. At this point in time, I don't believe a gay partner can adopt his/her partners children without the thier partner giving up thier parental rights. Then, if the partner (bio-parent) should die, the child goes to the bio-parents family (often estranged); not the person the child has come to look upon as the second parent.
(this probably varys from state to state; any lawyers out there?)
I really don't see any reason why gay couples should not get every right given to straight couples. Why shouldn't we be allowed to adopt? There are thousands of children that need loving parents out there.
Yes, I could get married to a woman and have kids etc. etc. But it wouldn't be fair to her. I would never be sexually attracted to her and I would never love her the same way someone else could. It is a choice, but there's only one fair decision. Would you want me to marry your daughter?
I don't claim to have an answer for ALL gays on that point- this is an individual matter, and their decisions should be between them and God. But it doesn't seem very wise to try and force a sexual relationship with the opposite sex if you do not have that attraction--for some of the reasons you listed...But I don't condemn those who do. I think that God is aware of them, and their struggles, and HE has the answer for them on an individual basis...no one solution is catch-all.
How about this.... as far as the state/country is concerned, call ANY committed relationship between two adults a civil union or domestic partnership or whatever. Straight or gay.
These two people would have to register thier relationship with the government in order to be recognized by the state/country.
Then, if you want to get married in the church; be it the Baptist Church or Our Lady of Lesbian Love; you could do that.
A precedent for this has already been established.
Marriage equality doesn't have anything to do with the church. Let them marry who they want, but the government should not deny rights to some based on your religion. How is this state control over religion?
The government is not dictating anything to anyone--it was the will of the people in CA....you need a crash course in democracy.
This isn't about RIGHTS. Gays have every right that heterosexuals have. they want special rights that have NEVER existed before in this country. Prop 8 was about defining a time-honored institution. I'm not buying what you are selling.
Well, actually everyone has the same rights under prop 8.
How about we remove 'marriage' entirely from the status of a state-recognized institution...and let religion's have that...and then those who want recognized institutions between two committed adults--can call them 'unions'--'unions' being the only recognized institution by the state (between two consenting adults).
??? I think that is fair...too bad it will never happen.
you are only showing your fundamental misunderstanding of the concept "by the people, for the people"...that means the majority entity enacts laws/amendments--gays can vote, and I'm pretty sure they did in CA- meaning they were represented in the democratic process-- but such is the bitter diatribe of the gay community!
they have the right to marry, under the law, just like everyone else. what they want is to INVENT the right to marry the same sex. Basic rights are fundamental; gay marriage is a NEW social suggestion. This argument is like attempting to sell a cheap bottle of wine as a vintage wine from Italy.
So I suppose you would support anti-miscegenation laws then? Because interracial couples always had the right to marry someone of the same race just like everyone else. They invented the right to marry someone of a different race. Loving v. Virginia determined that people have a basic right to marry the person of their choice, and since discrimination based on race is illegal, this gave us interracial marriage. The same argument applies to sex. No one chooses their sex anymore than their race.
As original as you believe your point of view to be, it's only the 67 thousandth time I have heard it.
You are missing a key element in anti-segregation laws: RACE. allowing interracial marriage only provides more opportunities for heterosexuals to marry each other. homosexual and heterosexual differences are a whole other matter. All you are doing is superimposing ideological terms in the anti-miscegenation laws, which doesn't accomplish anything.
I never claimed it was original, only that it was correct. Interracial couples used to have the same rights as everyone else, they could marry someone of the same race. The inequality was in not being able to marry the person of your choice, regardless of race.
You're missing the key element in my argument: SEX. There is no part of marriage that is unique to mixed-sex couples. Same-sex couples can participate in every benefit of marriage. There is no need to discriminate based on sex.
Allowing different races to marry is still an institution between one woman, and one man. No, the inequality was not being able to marry the opposite gender of your choice because of race--you diluted the proper analysis a bit- for obvious reasons.
Actually, not EVERY benefit of male/female sex. The right plumbing to have their own offspring.
My point is how is not being able to marry the person of your choice based on race any different than not being able to marry the person of your choice based on sex? I'm arguing that the institution of one man one woman is in itself unequal, because it's discrimination based on sex.
There is no part of marriage which requires the couple to both be the biological parents of a child. The same rules that apply to 2 biological parents of a child will apply to adoptive parents.
Tony, Tony Tony. Same gender marriage is a good thing.
jerrydoubleu 1 year ago
No it is a hate group. Like how the southern supporters of slavery in the late 1800s thought they were just defending there way of life. It really isn't worth debate because the world is always pressing forward and once freedom is finally granted to all, the world cannot back step. Enjoy your time of discrimination becasue in the next 20 years it will all be gone.
luigiman425 2 years ago
It;s very pathetic how you compare same-sex marriage to slavery. Then again, anyone who wants "rights" seem to do that.
ma7799 2 years ago
@5random1 This is actually a very good point...and one Mr. Perkins is working on.
derekpackard 2 years ago
I'm from Massachusetts. We were the first to legalize same-sex marriage, and I'm happy to report that allowing gay people to marry hasn't utterly destroyed the fabric of our existence. Actually, it hasn't changed anything at all except to make many gay couples very happy.
Seriously, heterosexual people aren't affected in any meaningful way by gay marriage. It's just a philosophical debate to us. But it means the world to gay people. What right do we have to interfere with their happiness?
sleepyrodent 2 years ago
@sleepyrodent I know many people who have been affected in a negative way by gay marriage in Massachusetts. Redefining marriage is much more than just philosophical. And yes, there are things that are more important than feelings. Feelings change.... the core institution of society...marriage between one man and one woman...should not.
derekpackard 2 years ago
@derekpackard Can you please elaborate on your statement that you know heterosexual people who've been negatively affected by gay marriage?
Gay marriage isn't just about feelings (though that is the most important aspect of it). It's about the principles our country was founded on. Liberty and justice FOR ALL, all men are created EQUAL, etc. Denying a minority a civil right the rest of the country enjoys (for no compelling reason) is contrary to those beliefs. It's not right.
sleepyrodent 2 years ago
The latest example would be Peter Vidala who was fired from his job as a manager at the Brookstone store in Logan Airport after he made comments against same-sex marriage to another manager. If gays really were upstanding citizens they would support the free speech of Christians, instead they whine "hateful biggot" and "homophobic" everytime anyone disagrees with their "right" to marry someone of the same sex. Legal same sex marriage in Mass cost this guy his job. So much for your theory.
derekpackard 2 years ago
Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but people should exercise common sense when expressing their opinions in the workplace. Mr. Vidala has the right to state his beliefs, but Brookstone also has the right to make sure its employees aren't alienating customers and other employees. Mr. Vidala should have picked a more appropriate forum to express himself.
It's rather hypocritical of Christians to complain about their rights being infringed upon when they're doing the same to gay people.
sleepyrodent 2 years ago
Yes, the people of Maine HAVE decided. Gay marriage stands... now go spew your hate elsewhere!
Gregroix 2 years ago
@Gregroix Might want to re-check your election returns there...
derekpackard 2 years ago
Not hate, disagreement is not the same as hate
prestda1 2 years ago
This whole thing is a joke. Yes on One is illegal. It is 100 percent illegal and whther gays can marry today or in fifty years doesn't matter because, yes on one will go down as a hate group. No On ONE!
luigiman425 2 years ago
@luigiman425 We are actually more of a "love our enemies" group than a hate group.
derekpackard 2 years ago
ugh...disgusting homophobic idiots. <_<
ZKoftherebellion 2 years ago
Vote NO on 1 to end discrimination and hatred toward your fellow human beings.
cmdrkoenig67 2 years ago
Last I checked, marriage is about love and not about religious ideology. If two men or woman love each other, then why stop them from getting married. Not everyone is religous and marriage was around long before any of the major religions. Stop trying to tell other people how to live especially if it doesn't affect you.
ChoasTheory2000 2 years ago
@ChoasTheory2000 Don't know where you are checking for your facts but the majority of what you said here is just not true.
derekpackard 2 years ago
Then please enlighten me with what is factually un-true about my statement?
ChoasTheory2000 2 years ago
God. The all mighty, all powerful, all knowing, infallible creator of the entire universe, and those 10 rules are the best he can come up with? That's it? Really?That right there has to be proof that there is no God.
TIMOTHYSAARINEN 2 years ago
Religion is nothing more than Primitive Superstition. The Bible is an elaborate book of fiction. All religion and faith in a non existant god does is create a fog. It muddies up the water so the real truth is difficult to see. America will never be truly free or truly great until we grow up and leave these silly beliefs behind. I no longer believe in Santa Claus, The Easter Bunny or The Tooth Fairy. Add God to that list. I'm not a child anymore.
TIMOTHYSAARINEN 2 years ago
It is not the end of the world to acknoledge another way of life.
Touma 2 years ago
I am sorry but not all of this country is christain. Has anyone forgotten that?! This country is supposed to be founded on the idea that you can come and make your dream come true. Well my dream is leading a decent and wholesome life with my boyfriend. not to cause harm to anyone, just to be able to have some happiness while i am on this earth. Has this country become such a sheltered mass that we cant tell our children that boys can like boys and girls can like girls, but is is up to that child
Touma 2 years ago
no on one
jerrydoubleu 2 years ago
Vote no on 1 and let's have equality.
jerrydoubleu 2 years ago
Hi Derek, you've got a bunch of interesting videos up here.
Just a quick question, as it doesn't look like it's been raised in this video's comments:
Why not separate Marriage from law and government, and place it solely in the hands of religious institutions to hand out?
That way, the sanctity of marriage is upheld, and IMHO restored, allowing churches to decide who to give such ceremonies to. This would also prevent any discrimination as marriage would fall solely under religious practice.
fluffywalrus 2 years ago
I don't get it, why is this message to churches?
metareborn 2 years ago
"Marriage is in trouble in Maine?" Just like it is in Massachusetts? Oh wait, Mass. has the LOWEST divorce rate in the nation.
Why can't the folks against marriage equality stop with the fear mongering and tell the truth?
Permaglo 2 years ago
Ah, the Family Research Council, one of the big players in the Christian mafia. But like all the others, it depends on using gay bashing and spreading lies about gay people as a fund raising tool. I'm sure Tony Perkins is scared to death of gay marriage passing in Maine because it means the beginning of the end for gay bashing as a revenue source.
Vote No on 1 and put a stop to the Christian Taliban.
staytunedfor 2 years ago
Is your belief in the bible so weak you must ram it down others throats and dictate to them how you believe they should live? It certainly appears so.
You should get a bulldog - you already look and sound like one. "Dude".
TheManray05 2 years ago
BTW - if you are so conerned with going to heaven - please do so immediately. You wouldn't be missed at all.
TheManray05 2 years ago
I'm sorry, but we can't even pray in our public schools. whether or not stated in the Constitution, there is a separation of church and state.
rexroother 2 years ago
Chickenshit - just because you seem to control the comments I notice anyone who disagrees with you is deleted.
No spine, you're just a demagogue with a peasant mentality who wishes to argue without a leg to stand on.
TheManray05 2 years ago
I haven't deleted you .... yet. You really just seem to be very angry... like many of the gay persuasion... angry and bigoted toward us who want to preserve marriage as an covenant between a man and a woman.
derekpackard 2 years ago
Thank you, Derek, for giving us a prime example of bigotry.
Chuiskay 2 years ago
@Chuiskay I'm saddened that you feel that way.
derekpackard 2 years ago
I've noticed the activists just switch to a different state when they fail in another. Why do the legislatures keep trying to legalize it when the public consistently shows they don't want it?
prestda1 2 years ago
@prestda1 It has to do with the amazing power of gay activists in this country and the money they make sure winds up in the hands of those legislators.
derekpackard 2 years ago
Derek:
You have an interesting point - yes, there are gay people who are married with kids - unfortunately it is due to ignorant bigots like yourself who believe they have all the answers -just listen to you and your small minded stupidity. PS - don't cast dispersions on my intellect when you are calling me "dude". Denigration of the english language.
Christians of your ilk are hardly human, much less Christian.
TheManray05 2 years ago
Hey thanks for even bringing up the 10 commandments. A core source of our laws in America. The big 10 were posted in many public places for decades as a source of guiding principles on behavior. Why none of the 10 deal with homosexuality. The first one is we shall have no other God's but the God of the Bible. God is the one who says marriage is between male and female. And God, why he loves every homosexual, condemns sex acts between same sex couples in the same way he condemns adultery.
derekpackard 2 years ago
Traditional marriage - multiple wives, women owned as chattel, a union solely formed for the perpetuation of wealth.
Stoning of adulterers?
Is that the traditional marriage you're referring to?,
TheManray05 2 years ago
Hey people make mistakes...right? But in all those you have listed.... it's all male and female. No culture or civilization has ever been so ignorant of the basic laws of nature as to think of comparing male to male sex as the same thing as the union of a man and a woman. Let's not start now.
derekpackard 2 years ago
Our laws are based upon Roman law - specifically Justinian law. Derek - you are the anti-christ. You're boring and mean.
What a self-righteous windbag. Mean, Derek, very mean. When are we going to vote on your "special" right to marriage?
TheManray05 2 years ago
Manray...does 05 mean you only got through the 5th grade or what? If our laws are based on Roman law that where are the statues of Caesar? It is the 10 commandments monuments that have caused all the fuss. They have been there for a long time because that is the standard for our law. Witness swear to tell the truth with a hand on a bible...not a Roman toga. Dude wake up. Even the anti-christ knows that.
derekpackard 2 years ago
Has this jackass from the video heard of "Separation of church and state?"
xTHUNDERGALOREx 2 years ago
Why don't you enlighten us all and show us that in the constitution...
derekpackard 2 years ago
Tony Perkins is a liar, and you are a fraud for propagating this horse manure. This has nothing to do with any "radical minorities" or "protecting families" or "morality." This has EVERYTHING to do with civil rights and equal treatment under the law. That is why, even though I live in California, I am donating to the NO ON 1 campaign in Maine, and will be doing fundraising for it as well. This mirrors the battle in California, where haters used LIES and FEAR to appeal to the basest in people.
volk410 2 years ago
Remeber that separation of Church and State thingy?
Vote No on Question One - keep religion out of the US Government.
theknowbody 2 years ago
What separation of church thingy? Where do you find that one?
derekpackard 2 years ago
We are all human, some just think they are more human than others....
Maine, send them packing, the traditional values group wants us all to live as they think we should.
Stand for Marriage has hired the same PR firm used in California, and they know how to persuade based upon prejudice.
The sky hasn't fallen on Mass, so what's the worry?
TheManray05 2 years ago
No right has been taken from you unless it's been approved by the voters and withstands the test of time.
derekpackard 2 years ago
GO MAINE!! VOTE FOR EQUAL MARRIAGE!!
Worldofchange 2 years ago
Equality for all. Marriage brings several rights into the picture.. so yes....
gay people deserve the same entitlement!!!!
patricktullius 2 years ago
All of this money and time spent on denying rights to others could very well be spent to HELP people who are in need - children, homeless, battered women....shame especially on the churchess who support such nonsense.
MA has offered s.s.marriages for over 5 years and the world hasn't crumbled. in fact, they have one of the lowest divorce rates in america! GO MAINE!
interferencemusic 2 years ago
"strip others of their rights". What a joke. Gays have the same rights as anybody else already. It's giving them special rights that I am against. Special rights like redefining marriage. Special rights like transgenders going into any bathroom they feel like male or female. Special rights like the gov deciding what someone "thought" when they committed a crime. Gays are experts at getting special rights. The rest of society needs to wake up to that fact.
derekpackard 2 years ago
"Gays have the same rights as anybody else already."
-- Most folks understand quite clearly that laws like the one you propose are aimed at gays specifically and are specifically designed to keep them from marrying. To pretend otherwise is just silly.
You would do better to spend your time trying to justify why you think it's important to have the government discriminate against one minority group of your neighbors. I certainly don't see a reason in this video.
mike2jb 2 years ago
laws like the one proposed are simply restoring what has been in place forever. So why all the ranting about taking away rights....no one has ever had the long standing right to marry someone of the same sex. Find another word but don't use the word marriage.
derekpackard 2 years ago
derek: Get a therapist!
Special rights? You rely on ignorant stereotypes and right wind talking points, think for yourself. If you were stripped of the ritght to be married, would you miss it?
You don't know what it is until you don't have it, then you understand what is missing. Equal treatment in the eyes of the law.
Can you get married? Yes. Can gay people get married? No.
Equal?? Special right? It appears it is your special right, not ours.
TheManray05 2 years ago
Since gays have never had the "right" to marry in any civilization I would say that granting that right now would be a special new right.
Gays have not had the right because they can't be married in the way males and females can. The plumbing issue prohibits that. Gender is incredibly important and celebrated in marriage. Therefore call your unions something else...but it is not traditional marriage.
derekpackard 2 years ago
The united states was founded predominantly by christians who were seeking a land of religious freedom. While I do not expect state to mandate that churches marry same sex couples, it is this nations obligation to affirm the right of marriage to couples of all walks. Churches may choose not to marry gay couples, but the state must recognize ALL marriages. Otherwise, the American dream can never be realized.
It should be noted that using any theology to govern violates the First Ammendment.
rosskennebunk 2 years ago
Finally, an intelligent and thought provoking comment. Thankyou. About the state's obligation to affirm the right to marriage to all couples... think about that as the main criteria... that means the door is open to anyone defining marriage as anything they personally feel is right for them. Brother, sister, Father and son, man and horse, any why just two...why not 10 partners... it seems like their should be a boundary and male and female makes the most sense for many reasons.
derekpackard 2 years ago
Dude you live in a box or what? Gay people can marry a person of the opposite sex just like I can...same rights. Marriage is not about your feelings... it's about the future of our society. A society where men and women get married cause that's the way we are designed as human beings. Many thousands of "gays" are happily married to opposite sex partners and even have their own kids. What a concept.
derekpackard 2 years ago
No, who cares what I believe in?! Look, my point was that America is not a Christian country, or Muslim or Jewish or Bhuddist or Atheist. Regardless of who is in the majority.
muellerican 2 years ago
I care what you believe in. But my point was you say America is not a Christian country and Obama said that. Yet that statement is dubious unless you define it. We don't have a theocracy here, religious rule in Gov. But we are a nation where about 80% of the citizens call themselves Christians so we are a nation full of Christians...a Christian nation. When an issue is debated most will have some form of Christian perspective on it. Some Christians think gay marriage is ok, most don't.
derekpackard 2 years ago
It takes a sperm and an egg to create a child. Every child has a birthright to be connected to his own father and mother.
Gay "nuptials' violate the basic human right of children and separate them form their history.
Children are the fruit of the love between a man and a woman. Homosexuals should not steal children and confuse them.
tubilist 2 years ago
I agree. Homosexuals by definition can't have kids biologically. They really can't even consumate the "marriage" biologically. Plumbing is there by design and male and female should be honored not violated.
derekpackard 2 years ago
There are thousands upon thousands of kids who need adopting. You would be denying marriage to ALL kinds of people with your case - infertile women, older people, people who do not want to have kids. Don't confuse your "reasoning" for truth.
interferencemusic 2 years ago
Where are these roaming bands of kid-snatching homos? You're putting a sinister face on adoption, perhaps one of the most selfless of acts imaginable. When there's plenty of people in the world that should be sterilized, fit parents owe it to the orphans of earth to be good role models to them.
My fiancee was adopted, btw. If adoption is "stealing", should my future in-laws be prosecuted for their egregious crime?
nekkidandrew 2 years ago
Comment removed
muellerican 2 years ago
Not sure what your point is here but religious freedom is certainly something I support. You say you are Jewish. Do you mean you practice a Jewish faith that is based on the Torah and the 10 Commandments etc.? If so, do you believe your God has no problem with homosexual marriage?
derekpackard 2 years ago
This is wrong,
Equality is an American Value!
Vote NO on question One, keep Maine free!
theknowbody 2 years ago
this video is a joke
wayne713 2 years ago
To Perklins and his people:
You are a very disgusting group of people. The only reason why you are fighting against gay people is because you have a severe case of intolerance and hatred, rooted in religion of course. Every message you put out there is nothing but lies and deceit. Thats the best thing you people do. Im sure mainers are more intelligent than that and will realize gay marriage hurts anyone but adds a lot for and to the community.
ch5342 2 years ago
Actually we are a very loving group of people who care enough about you to say something when you are doing things that are damaging to your body and your future. Eternity is very long time. You really need to live with God's best for you in mind.
derekpackard 2 years ago
Oh you live in a delusional world, where your hatred is masqueraded in what you call "love" but its FAR from being love. We do nothing that damages our body, but you people do very bad things that damage innocent people's souls and just want to make everyone elses, who disagrees with your insane views, as miserable as you can.
If you prefer to live your life according to a bronze-age myth book, thats your problem. Just keep your insane beliefs out of my life and the others who dont agree w/u.
ch5342 2 years ago
Sorry, we are all in this together. We need timeless, higher standards, so we can all aspire to something. Otherwise we have the chaos of everybody making up their own ideas of what love and family is. That is a recipe for disaster. That's why the the 10 commandments are engraved on the doors of the Supreme Court and why every court session starts with the marshall saying "God save this honorable court". Our laws are based on God's standard, not our opinions.
derekpackard 2 years ago
The "timeless, higher standard" your kind want to impose is those of a book of myths 2000 years old. This is the 21st century. The only recipe for disaster are religious fundamentalist like yourself who want to see this country go back in time to biblical times. Very pathetic.
ch5342 2 years ago
CONT...
Our laws based on some imaginary character? You may lead your life based on those rules you talk about. However this is a secular country. If you want a theocracy, Iran is your place.
ch5342 2 years ago
OKay. You can tell us that we can believe in different religions, but you can tell us that we shouldn't have equal rights for Family and marriage. THE CHURCH IS SEPARATE FROM THE STATE. The Church Should Not Decide Whether or Not we Should Have Gay Rights!
Kelso016 2 years ago
You already have the same rights as I do. That's equal rights. Just like me, you can marry anyone of the opposite sex you want.
derekpackard 2 years ago
yeah the Opposite sex, but not the same sex. If Straight people get equal rights, if races get same rights, gays should get same rights too. Watch my video and you'll hear a story about gays not having equal rights
Kelso016 2 years ago
You've GOT to be kidding. The Bible defines marriage as "one man and one woman?" Really? Who are you kidding? King Solomon had 700 wives. What was the punishment for a man guilty of raping a woman? You got it, marriage!
Your idea of "marriage" being defined by the church is a ridiculous notion. Like Christmas and Easter, marriage was a celebratory ritual performed by PAGANS! Yes, Christmas and Easter were BOTH
PAGAN holidays that Xtians hijacked!
Hersheysd 2 years ago 2
Hey at least you are attempting to use the bible to support your claims ... that's good. Granted the Old Testament tells of many cultural traditions including multiple wives. But you'll never find a man marrying another man. Because same sex couple can't really have a marriage. They can't consumate it for biological reasons. It's not marriage.
derekpackard 2 years ago
What if the majority voted that America is a Christian Country. Would Jews have to be thrown out of it? What if the majority voted to go back to black slavery? Are you asking to get rid of all civil marriages, because gays are not against religious marriages. If anything THIS type of conservative Christian reaction is a threat to religious freedoms since there are plenty of Churches who perform same-sex marriages already. I wouldn't like to live in a Christian Taliban. Its un-american.
squirrelwithashirt 2 years ago 2
Since over 80% of America call themselves Christians it's safe to say America is a Christian nation and always has been. Gays already have the same marriage rights as anyone else.... to allow same sex marriage is phony because gays really can't have a marriage in the most basic social terms.... a man and a woman uniting physically and monogamously for life...
derekpackard 2 years ago
"Gays already have the same marriage rights as anyone else"
Its funny when you people say that. It really seems that gays value the real meaning of marriage more than you do.
"to allow same sex marriage is phony because gays really can't have a marriage in the most basic social terms.... a man and a woman uniting physically and monogamously for life..."
I know many gay couples who live that way. Also I guess str8 swingers arent part of your definition, yet society lets them marry... hummm...
ch5342 2 years ago
"Gays already have the same marriage rights as anyone else"
Its funny when you people say that. It really seems that gays value the real meaning of marriage more than you do.
"to allow same sex marriage is phony because gays really can't have a marriage in the most basic social terms.... a man and a woman uniting physically and monogamously for life..."
I know many gay couples who live that way. Also I guess str8 swingers arent part of your definition, yet society lets them marry... hummm...
ch5342 2 years ago
yes the majority of americans consider themselves christians, but america is not a christian nation. the separation of church and state in our constitution make america a secular nation. the most basic of social terms? two men or two women can unite physically and monogamously for life.
cjwithoutsound 2 years ago
ahhhh yes .... the separation of church and state.... could you find those words for me in our constitution.
derekpackard 2 years ago
Is it nonconstructive to say that Tony Perkins is a bastard?
nekkidandrew 2 years ago
Is the gay bubble so thin and fragile that no one can bring to question the validity of efforts to redefine the foundational institution of society without you freaking out?
derekpackard 2 years ago
That *was* a pretty epic freakout, huh? Looking back on all the ranting and raving I did in that last post of mine, I suppose it was rather excessive. But I digress....
Homosexuality as the last remaining socially acceptable prejudice is really rather unacceptable. I just think society needs to wise up and embrace the change; embracing bigotry is harmful to a free society like ours.
nekkidandrew 2 years ago 4
Believe me I do appreciate your sense of humor based on most of what I get from these videos. Society has embraced gays, but not redefining marriage. Homosexuals are given given special status legally...perhaps too much so with the bathroom laws for anyone who might be confused about gender . Bigotry goes both ways my friend. I can say based on personal experience on YouTube that gays are much more bigoted toward Christians than Christians are toward gays. Disagreement is not bigotry.
derekpackard 2 years ago
"I can say based on personal experience on YouTube that gays are much more bigoted toward Christians than Christians are toward gays. Disagreement is not bigotry."
But if disagreement is not bigotry, your statement is sorta negated. I have never experienced actual homosexual bigotry towards Christians. There is resentment there, yes - but it's warrented, as many Christians are so caught up in their own bigotry that they actually will twist scripture around to attempt to make it back their own
nekkidandrew 2 years ago
(cont'd) twisted rhetoric. I say this as a lifelong Christian myself: the way Christians treat homosexuals is *ridiculous*. Disagreement with a lifestyle is in no way just cause for trying to strip others of their rights and constantly accusing them of living a sinful lifestyle. No doubt about it: gays may resent Christians for the way they treat gays, but there's certainly no bigotry there. Only tension that is, unfortunately, quite warranted.
nekkidandrew 2 years ago
Good points!!! I'll take a stand for tradional marriage.
healthnbeauty1 2 years ago
Traditional Marriage= Selling your daughter to the highest bidder.
Felidaise 2 years ago 4
I still dont understand how gay marriage hurts YOU. If the churches are not required to marry two people of the same sex if they dont want to, how can it involve YOU at all?
I think, politically, the Prop 8 people could have handled it better. Too bad people are deined the right to marry the adult person of thier choice because of poor organizational skills. I have confidence that one day, it will happen.
wandajane56 3 years ago
It's not about ME, it's about defining the SOCIAL PRECEDENT of traditional marriage. Doesn't make much sense to start calling it something else...
Now, we could remove marriage out of the civic arena--and just refer to committed relationships between two consenting adults- 'unions'. That seems to pass the smell test- maybe I'm wrong.
mockingyouingeneral 3 years ago
I've heard many people suggest this on both sides. I would be fine with it, and I suspect most gay people would be fine with it. Though I think there would be some bitterness from conservatives over the issue. "They couldn't get marriage, so they're trying to take it away from everyone" etc. etc. Personally I think it's just a semantics issue. Why do people care so much about the word marriage vs. the word union?
pkiverson 3 years ago
Well, you make a good point, why do gays need 'marriage'. Well, perhaps it has to do with legitimizing ALL the rights of hetero couples, such as adoption. That is why 'unions' won't do- because they want ALL the bells and whistles that come naturally from heterosexual relationships--so they want everyone else to provide those bells and whistles instead of living with the consequences of choosing a gay lifestyle. Why not OWN your choices?
mockingyouingeneral 3 years ago
You are assuming the attraction is a choice.
You may say, 'well, the behavior is a choice.'
And it is.
But would you give up your husband willingly? If your God came down today and said, "Hey, too many people in the world. All hetrosexual relationships are now abomination."...
would you really give up your husband?
I think not.
wandajane56 3 years ago 2
I never said the attraction was a choice...you are putting words in my mouth.
If a dinosaur came down and squashed my house....yeah, there are some things that just won't happen, but for intellectual honesty's sake--of course, I would do anything He asked me to--and you are assuming that I haven't had challenges in life that required this very thing...;)
mockingyouingeneral 3 years ago
You are right. You never said attraction is a choice (my fingers fly too fast sometimes). But you did say the lifestyle is a choice. Thats where I have a problem.
According to you (if I'm not mistaken) they can fall in love, live together, buy a home together, go to church together, be sexual together, but cannot get married.
Is that correct?
wandajane56 3 years ago
Pretty much. What they do in their personal lives is their business, and their choice--and yes, lifestyle is a choice, so if they want to be with the same gender, they are making the choice to NOT marry- under the definition of marriage- again THEIR choice.
when they want to redefine social institutions that effect everyone, that's where it becomes a problem
mockingyouingeneral 3 years ago
OK, so they want to 're-define' marriage. Words acquire new definitions everyday.
But how does that re-definition change hetrosexual marriage? I could see your concern if the re-definition would be changed to ONLY gay marriage. But since it doesn't do that, whats the big deal?
wandajane56 3 years ago
The big deal is that marriage is an institution defined by the federal government because it involves the protection of CHILDREN. Why do gays need the government defining their relationships? They don't because it involves two adults...but marriage more often than not, involves children...the need to protect children is at the heart of the government institution of marriage.
mockingyouingeneral 3 years ago
CHILDREN is one of the issues gay marriage would solve. At this point in time, I don't believe a gay partner can adopt his/her partners children without the thier partner giving up thier parental rights. Then, if the partner (bio-parent) should die, the child goes to the bio-parents family (often estranged); not the person the child has come to look upon as the second parent.
(this probably varys from state to state; any lawyers out there?)
wandajane56 3 years ago 3
I really don't see any reason why gay couples should not get every right given to straight couples. Why shouldn't we be allowed to adopt? There are thousands of children that need loving parents out there.
Yes, I could get married to a woman and have kids etc. etc. But it wouldn't be fair to her. I would never be sexually attracted to her and I would never love her the same way someone else could. It is a choice, but there's only one fair decision. Would you want me to marry your daughter?
pkiverson 3 years ago
I don't claim to have an answer for ALL gays on that point- this is an individual matter, and their decisions should be between them and God. But it doesn't seem very wise to try and force a sexual relationship with the opposite sex if you do not have that attraction--for some of the reasons you listed...But I don't condemn those who do. I think that God is aware of them, and their struggles, and HE has the answer for them on an individual basis...no one solution is catch-all.
mockingyouingeneral 3 years ago
The only thing I care about is both straight and gay couples have the same rights, word and all. Call it a pickle fart for all I care.
pkiverson 3 years ago
PICKLE FART IT IS!
mockingyouingeneral 3 years ago
How about this.... as far as the state/country is concerned, call ANY committed relationship between two adults a civil union or domestic partnership or whatever. Straight or gay.
These two people would have to register thier relationship with the government in order to be recognized by the state/country.
Then, if you want to get married in the church; be it the Baptist Church or Our Lady of Lesbian Love; you could do that.
A precedent for this has already been established.
wandajane56 3 years ago
What is that precedent? The Catholic church.
If a catholic couple get married by a JP down in the courthouse, the catholic church does not consider them married.
And if a couple married in the catholic church get divorced, the catholic church does not consider them divorced.
So why can't we consider a two step process? One for the secular world (government) and an optional one for the church?
Would that work in your world, Mockingyouingeneral?
wandajane56 3 years ago
"Since America's beginnings our society has defined marriage just like the bible"
What? The bible seems to sanction polygamy in many places and modern marriages began as a means of protection property.
Does it strike anyone as nonsensical when you use the 'of the people, by the people' Lincoln quote and then attack elected legislators?
I'm hoping we'll restore a separation of church and state in this country and reject this bigotry.
SpeedyBruin 3 years ago 2
separation of church and state means the state cannot control religion either...so it seems bigotry can go both ways...
mockingyouingeneral 3 years ago
Marriage equality doesn't have anything to do with the church. Let them marry who they want, but the government should not deny rights to some based on your religion. How is this state control over religion?
SpeedyBruin 3 years ago
The government is not dictating anything to anyone--it was the will of the people in CA....you need a crash course in democracy.
This isn't about RIGHTS. Gays have every right that heterosexuals have. they want special rights that have NEVER existed before in this country. Prop 8 was about defining a time-honored institution. I'm not buying what you are selling.
mockingyouingeneral 3 years ago
You need to study civil rights history and the constitution. Our country is not simple democracy.
SpeedyBruin 3 years ago
Well, actually everyone has the same rights under prop 8.
How about we remove 'marriage' entirely from the status of a state-recognized institution...and let religion's have that...and then those who want recognized institutions between two committed adults--can call them 'unions'--'unions' being the only recognized institution by the state (between two consenting adults).
??? I think that is fair...too bad it will never happen.
mockingyouingeneral 3 years ago
of the people, by the people, for the people... I guess gays are not people
wandajane56 3 years ago 2
you are only showing your fundamental misunderstanding of the concept "by the people, for the people"...that means the majority entity enacts laws/amendments--gays can vote, and I'm pretty sure they did in CA- meaning they were represented in the democratic process-- but such is the bitter diatribe of the gay community!
mockingyouingeneral 3 years ago
Uh oh, those terrible radical gays are at it again, trying to get their basic rights. Quick someone call the Mormons!
pkiverson 3 years ago 3
they have the right to marry, under the law, just like everyone else. what they want is to INVENT the right to marry the same sex. Basic rights are fundamental; gay marriage is a NEW social suggestion. This argument is like attempting to sell a cheap bottle of wine as a vintage wine from Italy.
mockingyouingeneral 3 years ago
So I suppose you would support anti-miscegenation laws then? Because interracial couples always had the right to marry someone of the same race just like everyone else. They invented the right to marry someone of a different race. Loving v. Virginia determined that people have a basic right to marry the person of their choice, and since discrimination based on race is illegal, this gave us interracial marriage. The same argument applies to sex. No one chooses their sex anymore than their race.
pkiverson 3 years ago
As original as you believe your point of view to be, it's only the 67 thousandth time I have heard it.
You are missing a key element in anti-segregation laws: RACE. allowing interracial marriage only provides more opportunities for heterosexuals to marry each other. homosexual and heterosexual differences are a whole other matter. All you are doing is superimposing ideological terms in the anti-miscegenation laws, which doesn't accomplish anything.
mockingyouingeneral 3 years ago
I never claimed it was original, only that it was correct. Interracial couples used to have the same rights as everyone else, they could marry someone of the same race. The inequality was in not being able to marry the person of your choice, regardless of race.
You're missing the key element in my argument: SEX. There is no part of marriage that is unique to mixed-sex couples. Same-sex couples can participate in every benefit of marriage. There is no need to discriminate based on sex.
pkiverson 3 years ago
But it isn't correct either.
Allowing different races to marry is still an institution between one woman, and one man. No, the inequality was not being able to marry the opposite gender of your choice because of race--you diluted the proper analysis a bit- for obvious reasons.
Actually, not EVERY benefit of male/female sex. The right plumbing to have their own offspring.
mockingyouingeneral 3 years ago
My point is how is not being able to marry the person of your choice based on race any different than not being able to marry the person of your choice based on sex? I'm arguing that the institution of one man one woman is in itself unequal, because it's discrimination based on sex.
There is no part of marriage which requires the couple to both be the biological parents of a child. The same rules that apply to 2 biological parents of a child will apply to adoptive parents.
pkiverson 3 years ago