When I was a fundamentalist I was asked to harmonize the psalms of imprecation with desired Christian character. I was asked to explain how the viscious seething hated displayed in these psalms was good. I realized I was being asked to be intellectualy dishonest. The attitudes presented by the psalmists are evil...the bitter seething hatred, the desire to take vengence...knock out their teeth, crush their babies heads on the pavement....sin. No other way to put it honestly.
Sweet Jesus, This is exactly why the bible has been bastardized in modern culture. You'll do it with the bible, and you'll do it with CS Lewis writings: Take any piece of literature without the context it's written in, and you can make it look however you want.
Keep in mind that C.S. Lewis was a mere man with a secular education that considered becoming an Atheist. Despite of his intelligence, he did not have degree in Theology. A lot of people cannot understand how a Good God could be capable of such violence. The fact most people do not understand is that God cannot tolerate UN-tolerant people. Read Matthew 18: 21-25
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I think I naturally have a definite rapport of David. The way I interpret his hate is honesty. The way i interpret his love is appreciation. The way I interpret his faith is nothing to lose. The way I interpret all of the actions he took in certain circumstances were heartfelt and sincere to himself, to his god. Not your god, His god.
Its always too hard to understand the difference between hope and the importance of evil. Look at how cs lewis defines you! evil=good.
CS Lewis is kind of a bullshitter if you ask me. It's the same guy who says atheism is foolish, then doesn't bother to say why. He's not a great thinker. If he hadn't known Tolkien, I doubt anyone would have heard of him.
I find it hilarious though that in his Narnia work his magic jesus lion Aslan actually comes off to me as kind of a jackass who doesn't want to show up unless some human kids come and praise him. Yeah... much as I love big cats, I wouldn't worship Aslan either.
@Shavarnarak So I take it you haven't read Mere Christianity, The Screwtape Letters, The Space Trilogy, etc? Good job trying to judge the guy's entire philosophy based on his children's book. Oh yeah, one of the most prolific children's books in history.
Knowing Tolkien doesn't change much anyway. Tolkien is one of the reasons Lewis converted. Also, Gandalf is an angel.
... friends ... beware of those who would condemn the condemning psalms ... I have a tale to tell in regard to this ... I once went to a university college in order to maximise my study efforts ... I was lied to BIG TIME by the Head of that College. His wife co-operated in that lie.
Three years effort placed into that degree yielded nothing. HE WAS ONE WHO CONDEMNED THE CONDEMNING PSALMS. The Psalmist David was a highly righteous man ; an anti-type to the Lord Jesus Christ. Note this lesson.
C S Lewis is no longer relevant to me. He did not know his subject when it came to christian living, just read his injunction LET'S PRETEND and the other SHOVE THEM BACK ( evil thoughts).
Besides, Lewis is dead, he did not die for me or save me, and as I get older in the faith I come to believe more and more SOLA SCRIPTURA, whereby Lewis' opionions are simply not relevant
@Strefanash Well Lewis' opinions are not irrelevant to non-believers. You can only get from point A (atheism) to point C (Christianity) if you go through point B first. You can't prove the Bible with the Bible. That is circular.
it is not circular if Lewis' opinions were not compatible with the Bible as a simple matter of textual study, regardless as to whether believed or not. I did not believe Sola scriptura first, I came to it as other self styled christian writers simply did not measure up with the Bible.
Besides, what is point B in your syllogism? I was an atheist myself
well ok think of this, first off the bible is technically written by man right, no matter how close to God man is were not perfect right so the word of the lord can be seen through it but the hatefilled filled parts of psamls and u have to admit there are some, it being written by man while the love filled and good part of psamls is written by God through david when he was writing
well ok think of this, first off the bible is technically written by man right, no matter how close to God man is were not perfect right so the word of the lord can be seen through it but the hatefilled filled parts of psamls and u have to admit there are some, it being written by man while the love filled and good part of psamls is written by God through david when he was writing
The title of this video is ridiculous and misleading...maybe even an example of pure ignorance. When I view pieces such as this I ask myself one question: "What is the INTENTION of the person sharing such information/misinformation?" I saw nothing in that video that convinced me that CS Lewis "hated the Psalms!" People should read the Bible in context...specifically the Psalms. It's an example of how human emotion runs the gamut and of how people cry out to God in ALL their circumstances.
I ddint' mread all the comments, so maybe this has already been said, but there is nothing in what Lewis says in the video that supports the title's allegation that he "hated the Psalms". Clearly he disapproved of some human urges he may have deemed hateful as reflected by the Psalmist. Listen again...and please consider revising the title of this posting. Thanks.
## Lewis points out that there are difficulties for Christian use of the Psalms; the vindictiveness of some of them is an example of this. He gives as examples Psalm 23, & Ps. 137. The last verse of 137 may well be understandable, but it is not Christian. Which is pretty much what he himself says.
It's untrue that he "hated the Psalms" - he can only be made to seem to do so if the rest of his book is ignored.
I am not sure why people have such a problem with this-this vid is actually defending the Text-God hates sin, the curses in the Law were uttered by Him-He went to the Cross for this-how much can we explain away and still call ourselves believers-are you unaware that the Tehilim were prayers that Jesus would have said but endorced as a Jew? Shtiut.
C.S. Lewis is not saying he hates the Psalms. Have you even read his book on the Psalms? He tells us in this book how the writers of each psalm expressed all kinds of human emotions as they were praying to God. That's what the psalms are-prayers to the Lord. When they were angry, afraid, joyful, overwhelmed, etc., they expressed it to the Lord in that way.
I agree with you that these are the words of Christ spoken latter in the New Testament or words that described him. I however think that it is wrong to say that to record the sins of a prophet, for only one was sinless, disqualify the words as the words of G-d, For example take Isaiah when he said "I am undone." His sin was actually vulgarity he was a man of unclean lips. Just because Christ spoke through David did not mean he agreed with the original context of the words.
is there any precedent within the church for believing 'all' of the psalms are only Jesus speaking or is this your own version of 'private interpretation'? I've read a lot over the years, Catholic, Orthodox, and Protestant, and can't say I've ever ran across this thought anywhere. The assumption that the apostles only applied the psalms to Christ is is surely an extreme case of eisogesis.
Woooah !! I read 'Mere Christianity' almost EVERY year. I own two copies of the book. It never occurred to me that CSL had these issues ? This here that you posted is interesting. Hmm...
For the record, I curse sometimes. Am I going to hell ? I probably won't mind if the idiots that made me curse would be going ahead of me !
C.S. Lewis' words are welcome to my ears, hhowever critical they may be of something I love, the Psalms. The commentator here has thoughts of his own which interest me not.
The Psalms that he is speaking of are defined as imprecatory Psalms. David was a king and a warrior ,therefore he would encounter political situations and would also have to fight the enemies of Israel. I could go further but it is to in depth.
1 Thess 5:14 And we exhort you, brethren, admonish the disorderly, encourage the fainthearted, support the weak, be longsuffering toward all.
You got the first.... don't forget those calls to us after that. Not all of us have "safe" and "orderly" places to throw out complicated ideas and discussions. Those that do, need not be chatting and wasting their time online to comment on 'youtube' videos that could be used to spark someone's interest or intellect.
I appreciate your thoughts. I agree and disagree. I think it is important to remember that the Psalms are both prophecy of Christ's thoughts, suffering, judgement, etc...... but also of David's. That is the point. It is very human emotion, thought, belief, doubt that is revealed in the midst of revealing the truth about it. David's desire to "curse his enemy's" was in fact written to be paralleled with the truth found in Christ's judgement later.
Remind them of these things, and solemnly charge them in the presence of God not to wrangle about words, which is useless and leads to the ruin of the hearers. Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, accurately handling the word of truth. But avoid worldly and empty chatter, for it will lead to further ungodliness, and their talk will spread like gangrene.
Ponder this scripture before posting such things to Youtube, please.
Ya gotta be careful with CS Lewis; he wasn't always a Christian and some of his writing is from that time- others from a growing period where he merely vents ignorance rather than glories in understanding.
I should add also that in Psalm 51:4 David lies saying that he sinned only against God when he also sinned against Bathsheba and Uriah (whom he had killed). In verse 5, therefore, the unborn child rebukes David for his lie. In verse 6 David worships God for the miracle of the unborn child rebuking him from the "hidden part." Verse 5 is not a teaching of inherited sin, but a correction of David's lie in verse 4.
The apostles never said ALL the Psalms "were Christ's experiences" as you put it. Some Psalms are Messianic and some of the Psalms that are David's experiences have some Messianic material. But the Psalms as a whole are not "Christ's experiences." C.S. Lewis is far more correct that you here.
i did'nt listen to the whole audio of this. but what i would say is that the book of psalm is the most naked book in the bible, in which the writer express his heart out to the Lord openly. in joy, in gladness, and in even when someone done us wrong. The main essence of it, is that the Lord cares every part of our lives and He will listen to our cry,complaints and praises.
christ didn't say "But these HOSTILE to me, those not desiring me to reign over them, bring them here and EXECUTE THEM BEFORE ME." it was a man in a parable! christ would never say that!
Oh yes, I see. If man curses his neighbor or commits violence against his neighbor, then that's bad. If God or Jesus curses man or commits violence against man, that's not evil. Hmmm... Doesn't seem like a very loving God. Doesn't the Bible also say that God is more loving than man? And yet Man can somehow see that this "Loving God" is willing to torture man in a way that man can recognize as evil? Stop justifying evil and hatred as expressions of morality and good.
Did CS Lewis ever repent of what he said? Sometimes evil words get recorded but are repented of later without paper record.
I think the psalms are very important. Because certain ones predict the crucifiction of Jesus in perfect detail. Even though the Psalms were written hundreds of years prior to Christ's birth, they describe exactly what was to happen to Him during His coming.
The gospel is that Christ Died For our sins and raised himself up from the dead, and he is returning to rapture the church and judge the world. Repent and be saved
those who choose do not believe will suffer God's eternal judgment. our pride and arrogance in opposing the creator of the univderse, is sufficient to eternally damn all of mankind. only God, king Jesus can pay for our sins against God
the law holds us condemed, king Jesus (king auslan in the chronicles of narnia) has redeemed us from the curse of sis and death. for all who believe and repent(stop opposing YHWYGod The ancient of days our Creator) they will be saved.
Mr. Lewis was a good man but like all people he had his imperfections and shortcomings. Also the Psalms are not all from David. Some may have been composed as late as the Babylonian Captivity.
Learn this-God DOES hate. Period. All your debating and quibbling about what this or that word means, or what intent these or those Psalms were written with, is pointless. For those of you with the desire to do so, I suggest you truly begin to learn what these passages actually say by taking the time to ask a believing, Orthodox Jew. Until then, you are essentially 'lost in the sauce' just as you have been for many centuries.
The real truth is this, Christianity, or the worship of a man, named Jesus, is itself an affront to God almighty. I could frankly care less about what Mr. Lewis thought, because as is the case with 9 out of 10 Christians, all they really know of scripture are the abominably mistranslated and forged documents. People, what you call the 'New Testament' is nothing more than a wretched collection of lies and half truths which have been per your 'Bible' tagged onto the Jewish Torah.
The imprecatory Psalms are honest expressions of the sinful human heart in the presence of God, who searches our hearts (Ps 139:23) and sees the hate He wants to remove. Jesus fulfilled these psalms and identified with them, though without sin or the need to curse His enemies, because they are under Father-God's curse already. David was inspired by the Spirit to write them; we pray the imprecatory psalms when we feel the hate God wants to remove from our hearts.
2Ti 3:16 All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2Ti 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
It's easy to find something about a man, then exploit it, C.S Lewis was brilliant, Although Only a man. He may have had his own relationship with God. To my understanding, The Holy book is Gods written word....And As I read More and More, EVERY WORD had MEANING..
There is much splashing about here as of fish out of water. The PSALMS are "songs" and in that they are an entreaty, an attempt to dialogue, with the Divine. They may very well project childish or "unenlightened" positions such as asking the Divine Parent to impart justice, even violence, to "enemies" on behalf of those dependent upon such intervention. If you want to be literal, fine. If you hear in them the heartfelt pop song of love divine entwined w/ divine love, even better. GodHelpUsAll.
'Unenlightened'? By what measure do you calculate that? By the standards of today and this world? This is the very attitude which has infused itself into men to bastardize words and scriptures in the past and all along, and then at some point what you end up with is NOT even close to what was actually and initially written. I suggest you people take up another hobby.
David was also an adulterer and a murderer, but judged others for being the same. What separated him from the others was his reconciliation with God. And Christ quotes many many things from the Old Testament, not just Psalms. I'm not saying that God didn't write through David, but that doesn't mean these weren't David's feelings. You need to stop taking writers out of context too. If you want to debate something, don't distort others' perception in order to better your argument.
Prophetic-shmetic, if you are persecuted this is comfort, David's Psalms that is, after all Yehashua is seated at the right hand of Elohim until His enemies are made His footstool. It's only time, only time is it not? For C.S. Lewis, when he opens his eyes, the Great White Throne.
C. S. Lewis was heretical on many things..the worship of this man, by deluded, modern, "Evan-jelly-fish-icals", is a sure sign of sickness, in the Body of Christ. Plus, Lewis has "spawned" ungodly clones of himself, such as Ravi Zacharias and Alistair McGrath. With these men (following Lewis), philosophy REPLACES theology (but see 1 Timothy 4:16)! Beware!
ummm....Really now? I would be forced to disagree. David can't be a prophet because he was not always right, and the Bible says that if a prophet is wrong once he is not a prophet. Also, not all the psalms are written by David (theres notes acrediting them under the chapter heading in most Bibles. Sorry man, gonna say you're wrong, Lewis may not have been right, but you most certainly aren't (or else you need to offer better evidence).
I think the Psalms were as Lewis said the sinful cursings of David and, to some degree unintentionally, prophetic. "It is better than one man die than that the whole nation perish" was not spoken by God through a man. It was spoken by man and God ordained for him to say it. The Holy Spirit may have spoken through David's mouth but doesn't it also say that the prophets searched their own scriptures to find out when, and in what manner, the Messiah would come?
I'm sort of an agnostic now, though. I just know all this, because I was raised in a Christian home. To me it's like arguing about Star Wars. Just because I know it's fiction now, doesn't mean there isn't credence to the argument that Luke Skywalker is Vader's son. I can see the logic behind this or that theology and still think the premise for the whole thing may be false.
type-o: "than one man should die" = "that one man should die". But if you get hung up on obvious type-o's, I really don't care to bother arguing the actual point with you.
The Psalms reveal that God respects honesty & the truth of where we are in life. What God hates most is piety & phariseeism that is outward religion but inwardly dead.
The problem Lewis was having with the imprecatory psalms is cleared up in the concept of "intrusion ethics" set forth by the theologian Meredith Kline who taught for years at Westminster Seminary and Gordon-Conwell Seminary.
Jesus never said any of the things claimed by you or any other man...As his story was produced at the council of necene (300 years after his death), where it was decided what he said, what he was and what the official story was to be. Many at that council did not even consider him divine, like the Jews of his day.
life has a limit,but knowledge is with out limit.for the limited to pursue the unlimited is futile. to know this and still pursue knowledge is even more futile. in doing good avoid fame in doing evil avoid punishment. thus, by pursueing the middle way, you may perserve body, fulfill your life, look after your parents, and live out your years. peace
also you dont need religion to be a follwer of god your a slave to your hand downed beleaf. god dont need religion you do and i dont mean you i mean anyone who follows a religion there all the same, god is love god is one theres your truth,try reading something other then your bible read something thats brings us together no pull us apart reilgion seperates and segragates us ablosih it peace.
its just a thought provoking review to be honest it was interesting to get Lewis' view on the whole thing while watching the video as well as the guy arguing/replying
CS Lewis is smarter than you. Biblefreaks seek to iron out the Bible so that it never contradicts itself when the Christian intent on distinguishing the truth, realizes that the Bible is merely a sounding board of the religious doctrines throughout the ages, some of that doctrine containing popular thought.
CS Lewis, a brilliant author was indeed dead wrong here on the Psalms.
The Psalms are to be sung in Churches per Colossians 3:16- so dashing Babylonian infants against rocks must be typical, given there is no unclean people (per Acts and Peter's vision). Also there is no example of anyone doing that to Babylonian children even in the Old Testament.
Jesus said, "Suffer the children to come unto Me for of such is the Kingdom of heaven" and Jesus sang the Psalms. So obviously the meaning is with regard to Mystery Babylon and the corruption of doctrines- indeed Babylonian doctrine did infiltrate the church- and still does as described in the Book of Revelation. We are to kill off those falsehoods by dashing these doctrinal "infants" against the rocks before they develop into full blown adult deceptions.
don't distort what Jesus said. He said "let the children come to me and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to ones such as these". Matthew 19:14, Mark 10:14, Luke 18:16. I don't know where you got your quote from.
You could not be more correct-- precisely the meaning of dashing those infants against the rocks. Religion comes in all forms, the worst form of religion is atheism.
CHRIST PREACHES TO LOVE YOUR ENEMIES, TO PRAY FOR THOSE WHO MISTREAT YOU AND TO BLESS THOSE WHO CURSE YOU; Don't get confused that Christ is cursing his enemies through David
WHEN CHRIST WAS ON THE CROSS WHAT DID HE ASK HIS FATHER TO DO TO HIS ENEMIES?
HE SAID "FATHER FORGIVE THEM,THEY DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING!" (Luke 23:34)
There is a time when God will judge those who do evil to the innocent, who harbor murder and sin in their hearts; As for Christ, he has called us to be gentle and humble in spirit just as he is.
David wrote what was on his mind I think, and at times the Holy Spirit propheied through him. As for these days we live in now, Christ has given us the commandment to love others and to do good to those who do wrong to us because the Kingdom of Heaven is near!
There is a time when God will judge those who do evil to the innocent, who harbor murder and sin in their hearts; As for Christ, he has called us to be gentle and humble in spirit just as he is.
David wrote what was on his mind I think, and at times the Holy Spirit propheied through him. As for these days we live in now, Christ has given us the commandment to love others and to do good to those who do wrong to us because the Kingdom of Heaven is near!
God has appointed Jesus to be both the savior and judge of the world, and indeed he has the right because he lived a life pleasing to God. But as the messiah and son of God, he teaches mercy and love;
People, it is fine time that you know the heart of Christ, Jesus takes no pleasure in condemning his enemies.
I don't think that David wrote the psalms always in the words of Christ, and in Luke 20:41-47 I see that Jesus is saying that it is by the mouth of David that he writes pslams.
At 4:55, The creator of this video writes that Jesus said, "these hostile to me ... execute them". However, this passage is called 'The PARABLE of the ten minas'! In the bible, that quotation comes from the mouth of a king Jesus speaks of, not from Jesus himself!!
Therefore, the Psalms are NOT the word of Jesus.
But all this is irrelevant: there is NO GOD. The bible is completely outdated and dangerous to the development of mankind.
We look forward to the death of this hideous religion.
PeteUtonic: Do you know that there is no God? If it is your belief, then there is a very good probability, perhaps 99% chance, that God exist, granted that you know 1% of everything. If you want to discover the truth about the Bible, study the propechies of old that have come true. Keep an open mind, and an open heart.
I believe what the Bible says and i believe what ever is in it and no body can convince me other wise. God gave the men of the bible the knowledge and the spirit to write the Bible. I love God and nothing will change that.
Well, the nobleman in Luke 19, is not Christ, but a historical reference to Herod Archelaus, and the delegation of Jews who went before him to Rome to oppose him recieving the title of King (check out the footnotes of Luke 19 in NAB).
The story is a recasting of Herod Archaleus into the role of the Pharaoh in Exodus 5, and Luke contrasts this character with the Lord who rides on an ass, who "brings forth the prisoners from the dungeon (Zechariah 9)."
I don't know about anyone else, but if it's David calling upon us to bash kid's brains out, that's understandable, because he's human and tainted by human wants, jealousy and desires. If it's Christ himself telling us it's ok and in fact actively encouraged to bash kid's brains out...
Well, I don't know about you. That makes me seriously doubt who it is I'm supposed to be worshipping...
I'm afraid that this leads us to an inevitable conclusion. The Bible, and the Old Testament for that matter, bear the un-indelible marks of not only God, but its writers, who were just men like the rest of us. Each individual is going to have to decide whose thoughts they are reading.
Andrew: great to hear C.S. Lewis; good work, mate, really; good stuff on YouTube. Denominations, doctrines, even scipture and what is said there is useful piecemeal only to a true believer. I pray everyday that our Lord will destroy the evil Kazars who are destroying my folk...my prayers to my Lord are honest as He heard me before I spoke. What is prayer from a wise man if it is not honest?
Not being a religious individual, I'm not sure I see the point here. I don't think the point is if Christ or David is calling upon us to bash children's brains out, or slay those judged wicked. I think the act being called for, in and of itself, is wicked, and who speaks it is irrelivant.
On the other hand, God says "vengeance is mine, I will repay" (Heb 10:30).
So, it would be perfectly consistent for Christ - the Psalmist - to curse his enemies with Psalms. This would contradict no other part of the Bible. Because the Bible never says God is obliged to love all men.
Thus we see that the Scripture is perfectly consistent with itself. At least on this point in particular =)
G'day Lgilsig. Thanks for your comment. You wrote, "I think the act being called for, in and of itself, is wicked, and who speaks it is irrelivant."
Well, it all has to do with self-consistency of the Bible, doesn't it? Christ said men are to love their enemies. But the Psalmist hated his enemies. So if the Psalmist was a mere man, then a lot of the Psalms would be downright sinful.
Andrew, I think there is more here than the consistancy of the Bible. If, to make he Bible self-consistant, it is nessessary to believe that the son of God wants us to bash the brains of children out, let the Bible remain as contradictory as it is.
Hi again Lgilsig. Thanks for responding. You wrote me, "If, to make the Bible self-consistent, it is necessary to believe that the son of God wants us to bash the brains of children out, let the Bible remain as contradictory as it is."
OK. I think I could show the "children of Babylon" are the non-elect. That is, Christ wants to judge all the unbelievers that have ever lived (Babylon is figurative for false religion normally).
However, even if the text was only talking about children...
What's wrong with that? Lgilsig - no offence, but do you want a God that respects man and tip toes around man?
That being, by definition, would not be God. That being would be putting the interests of man above his own.
On the contrary, the God of the Bible exhibits a character infinitely superior to man. He gives Christ's Righteousness to those who don't deserve anything.
And he reprobates those who think they are most entitled to salvation. See Christ's approach to people in the four Gospels. Here we see that God does not act conditionally. He doesn't want favors and promises from man.
Why? He doesn't need them. Man is changing, dying, stupid and powerless. God is Eternal, all-wise, controlling everything.
So if God desires to kill infants, what's wrong with that? If God was limited by "man's rights" and so-called "innate rights", then God would be subject to man! He would cease to be God. This is why the God of the Bible says, "Forming light, and creating darkness; making peace, and creating evil. I, Jehovah, do all these things." (Isa 45:7).
Lewis was a literary critic, so it is no surprise he was critical of some of the psalms. Otherwise he wrote much on his love for the psalms and their lovely poetry, poetry which is imparted to every translation.
Christ DOES say Christ says, "But these HOSTILE to me, those not desiring me to reign over them, bring them here and EXECUTE THEM BEFORE ME." but he says this whilst telling a story. please dont quote out of context.
The Psalms are the recorded inner thoughts of the writers. The writers, being human, expose the full range of human feelings (including the bile and hatred). God doesn't shield this or comment. It is for us to work out just how vile and amazing humans can be. CS Lewis was quite right. So stop attributing to God the same venom expressed by his all-too-human followers. The Psalms are awful by an large, and are the well-spring of the religious faiths they spawned.
I'm not convinced that this is Christ speaking through all the Psalms, rather than David. I don't think Lewis is right to accuse the Psalmist of naivety, and I don't think that David is mistaken to ask God 'Wilt thou not slay the wicked, O God?' Vengeance is the Lord's, and David is expressing a certain doubt, or a request for reconfirmation.
Tradition has a purpose too.And in this case is only too obvious if you use your own common sense and only read a few of the psalms that they're all about human experiences of joy,of penance etc
What would Christ have to repent for if the video is correct?
What nonsense.And how dangerous it is to misinterpret things like that and it happens too often nowadays.There is a long tradition of two thousand years in the Catholic and Orthodox church of interpreting the Bible,generations of saints who were in closeness with God wrote many books regarding what this religion is all about,a real real treasure for the confused modern world we live in.
Their is no hatred in the Psalms!If the Holy Spirit does not read the word through you, then I can see how one would think that their is hatred in the psalms.Our minds are not to think with but to obey with.If Abraham had used his brain he would never had slain his Son.If Noah had used his head he would never had built the Ark.If Moses had used his brain he would never had done the things he did.Little children don't think to well but they love well.
"Our minds are not to think with..." Oh my God, what a statement! You might need to think with it a little more, then you might realize that Abraham didn't slay his son.
Abraham did not have to sacrifice Isaac... Genesis 22:13
And Abraham lifted up his eyes, and looked, and behold behind him a ram caught in a thicket by his horns: and Abraham went and took the ram, and offered him up for a burnt offering in the stead of his son.
I'm pretty sure the cursing psalms weren't christ cursing his enemies. I'm pretty sure they were king david or whoever the true writer of the psalms were. There seems to be no logical connection from point a to b in your arguement that "Clearly, the Cursing Psalms MUST be Christ ALONE speaking about his OWN enemies."
Out of curiosity, am I also to believe that ALL of Isaiah was written from Christ's POV? When Mathew quotes from Isaiah 7:14 as a prophecy of the virgin birth of Christ, he should have read a little further. He would have found the next few chapters seem rather to be a narrative about the birth of a son (Maher-Shalal-Hash-Baz) that was born to Isaiah himself and a prophetess as a sign for a king to go to war.
dude, you missed the word "not" - he says we must NOT either try to explain them away or yield... not only do other copies of this text add that word and if you listen the audio adds it as well, but the rest of the paragraph only makes sense that way. I think you'll agree that adding "NOT" makes CS Lewis a clear advocate.
There IS hatred in the Psalms, but, there is also prophecy in them that has come true. One Psalm that has come to light, is Psalm 83. Read it and see if it doesn't fit with the Islamic attitude toward Israel. Psalm 83 seems more true, due to the current leader of Iran.
Maybe you'll actually answer this question: Was Paul sinning when he pronounced those who preach a false gospel to be anathema in Galatians 1? I still want to know if you actually like any Christian teachers, theologians or ministers, or if you think that most of them are heretics.
Hi Jobber. You ask about Paul's curse in Galatians 1. Is Paul's cursing here different that the cursing in the Psalms? Well, does Paul exhibit any personal hatred against particular individuals? No. In Galatians 1, Paul is merely echoing Christ, "he that believes not is damned" (Mk16:16). The Cursing Psalms are different than this.
Paul doesn't say, "I hate them" about His enemies, so he is not sinning. Compare this to the Psalmist. "O Jehovah, do not I hate those hating You? And am I not detesting those rising against You?" (Psalm 139:21) "I hate them with a perfect hatred; they have become my enemies." (Psalm 139:22).
Only God is allowed to hate, right? "Esau, I hated", he says. But we men are commanded not to hate, so the cursing Psalms would be sinful if David was saying them about his own enemies . Clearly, the Cursing Psalms MUST be Christ ALONE speaking about his OWN enemies.
I think you've made a very strong case that the imprecatory Psalms are spoken from Christ's point of view. I'm still not convinced that all psalms are - have to think about that. Btw, this is the book of his that made me wince most- especially in ch 11 where he seems to encourage postmodernism by casting doubt on Paul's inspiration.
Personally I find many of Lewis' work to be full of occultic idealogy and undertones. Thanks for sharing but whoever wrote this (whether Lewis or otherwise) failed to view scripture in total. Grabbing snippets here and there can lead to many presuppositions.
When I was a fundamentalist I was asked to harmonize the psalms of imprecation with desired Christian character. I was asked to explain how the viscious seething hated displayed in these psalms was good. I realized I was being asked to be intellectualy dishonest. The attitudes presented by the psalmists are evil...the bitter seething hatred, the desire to take vengence...knock out their teeth, crush their babies heads on the pavement....sin. No other way to put it honestly.
prairiemark 1 month ago
Sweet Jesus, This is exactly why the bible has been bastardized in modern culture. You'll do it with the bible, and you'll do it with CS Lewis writings: Take any piece of literature without the context it's written in, and you can make it look however you want.
nintendowiifreak88 4 months ago
Keep in mind that C.S. Lewis was a mere man with a secular education that considered becoming an Atheist. Despite of his intelligence, he did not have degree in Theology. A lot of people cannot understand how a Good God could be capable of such violence. The fact most people do not understand is that God cannot tolerate UN-tolerant people. Read Matthew 18: 21-25
GAboy2470 10 months ago
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DawnTharpe 11 months ago
I think I naturally have a definite rapport of David. The way I interpret his hate is honesty. The way i interpret his love is appreciation. The way I interpret his faith is nothing to lose. The way I interpret all of the actions he took in certain circumstances were heartfelt and sincere to himself, to his god. Not your god, His god.
Its always too hard to understand the difference between hope and the importance of evil. Look at how cs lewis defines you! evil=good.
odiumimbues 1 year ago
CS Lewis is kind of a bullshitter if you ask me. It's the same guy who says atheism is foolish, then doesn't bother to say why. He's not a great thinker. If he hadn't known Tolkien, I doubt anyone would have heard of him.
I find it hilarious though that in his Narnia work his magic jesus lion Aslan actually comes off to me as kind of a jackass who doesn't want to show up unless some human kids come and praise him. Yeah... much as I love big cats, I wouldn't worship Aslan either.
Shavarnarak 1 year ago
@Shavarnarak i guess u love satan more because thats who u gonna spend eternity with if u dont repent of sin and believe in christ
dante1613 11 months ago
@Shavarnarak So I take it you haven't read Mere Christianity, The Screwtape Letters, The Space Trilogy, etc? Good job trying to judge the guy's entire philosophy based on his children's book. Oh yeah, one of the most prolific children's books in history.
Knowing Tolkien doesn't change much anyway. Tolkien is one of the reasons Lewis converted. Also, Gandalf is an angel.
worldofdraculas 5 months ago
no words, have no words... don't even know what to do, laugh or cry.... ok, i'll just go out of here..download this from downloadmusic d0ht im
divinagoettel22 1 year ago
... friends ... beware of those who would condemn the condemning psalms ... I have a tale to tell in regard to this ... I once went to a university college in order to maximise my study efforts ... I was lied to BIG TIME by the Head of that College. His wife co-operated in that lie.
Three years effort placed into that degree yielded nothing. HE WAS ONE WHO CONDEMNED THE CONDEMNING PSALMS. The Psalmist David was a highly righteous man ; an anti-type to the Lord Jesus Christ. Note this lesson.
MusicPredominates 1 year ago
C S Lewis is no longer relevant to me. He did not know his subject when it came to christian living, just read his injunction LET'S PRETEND and the other SHOVE THEM BACK ( evil thoughts).
Besides, Lewis is dead, he did not die for me or save me, and as I get older in the faith I come to believe more and more SOLA SCRIPTURA, whereby Lewis' opionions are simply not relevant
Strefanash 1 year ago
@Strefanash Well Lewis' opinions are not irrelevant to non-believers. You can only get from point A (atheism) to point C (Christianity) if you go through point B first. You can't prove the Bible with the Bible. That is circular.
JohananRaatz 1 year ago
@JohananRaatz
it is not circular if Lewis' opinions were not compatible with the Bible as a simple matter of textual study, regardless as to whether believed or not. I did not believe Sola scriptura first, I came to it as other self styled christian writers simply did not measure up with the Bible.
Besides, what is point B in your syllogism? I was an atheist myself
Strefanash 1 year ago
An idiot discussing ancient mythology. LOL.
RhondaH 1 year ago
Come on Bethesda! Announce The Elder Scrolls V already! And you better have more than 5 voice actors for the entire game!
Cralfinsamhiemnater 1 year ago
@Cralfinsamhiemnater
as long as ES V is not based upon CS lewis
whitesquirrel7 11 months ago
Talk to Complete Strangers about any religion
MsTashaPeterson 1 year ago 2
well ok think of this, first off the bible is technically written by man right, no matter how close to God man is were not perfect right so the word of the lord can be seen through it but the hatefilled filled parts of psamls and u have to admit there are some, it being written by man while the love filled and good part of psamls is written by God through david when he was writing
theChirstankid 1 year ago
well ok think of this, first off the bible is technically written by man right, no matter how close to God man is were not perfect right so the word of the lord can be seen through it but the hatefilled filled parts of psamls and u have to admit there are some, it being written by man while the love filled and good part of psamls is written by God through david when he was writing
theChirstankid 1 year ago
The title of this video is ridiculous and misleading...maybe even an example of pure ignorance. When I view pieces such as this I ask myself one question: "What is the INTENTION of the person sharing such information/misinformation?" I saw nothing in that video that convinced me that CS Lewis "hated the Psalms!" People should read the Bible in context...specifically the Psalms. It's an example of how human emotion runs the gamut and of how people cry out to God in ALL their circumstances.
cinemissy 1 year ago
I ddint' mread all the comments, so maybe this has already been said, but there is nothing in what Lewis says in the video that supports the title's allegation that he "hated the Psalms". Clearly he disapproved of some human urges he may have deemed hateful as reflected by the Psalmist. Listen again...and please consider revising the title of this posting. Thanks.
Jeeves1952 1 year ago
## Lewis points out that there are difficulties for Christian use of the Psalms; the vindictiveness of some of them is an example of this. He gives as examples Psalm 23, & Ps. 137. The last verse of 137 may well be understandable, but it is not Christian. Which is pretty much what he himself says.
It's untrue that he "hated the Psalms" - he can only be made to seem to do so if the rest of his book is ignored.
5355vbxjbj76rvn 1 year ago
Oblivion
mannimarco3 2 years ago
I always admired the Breton voice.
LordOliverCromwell 2 years ago
wow it sounds exactly like the breton voice from oblivion
goinginside980 2 years ago 4
I am not sure why people have such a problem with this-this vid is actually defending the Text-God hates sin, the curses in the Law were uttered by Him-He went to the Cross for this-how much can we explain away and still call ourselves believers-are you unaware that the Tehilim were prayers that Jesus would have said but endorced as a Jew? Shtiut.
freezingstill 2 years ago
Oblivion.
blingblongzz 2 years ago
@blingblongzz
I actually came here cause a guy gave me the link saying it sounded like a Breton in Oblivion and I swear this guy sounds exactly like them.
TCCX360 1 year ago
C.S. Lewis is not saying he hates the Psalms. Have you even read his book on the Psalms? He tells us in this book how the writers of each psalm expressed all kinds of human emotions as they were praying to God. That's what the psalms are-prayers to the Lord. When they were angry, afraid, joyful, overwhelmed, etc., they expressed it to the Lord in that way.
418purplepanda 2 years ago 16
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Lewis should have stuck to writing for children instead of trying his hand at theological reflection.
But I guess, in a way, they're the same thing...
ClumsyRoot 2 years ago
i dont get it. explain?
danielraysir 2 years ago
Oh, the efforts to rationalize nonsense. The never-ending fight.
Aaberg123 2 years ago
I agree with you that these are the words of Christ spoken latter in the New Testament or words that described him. I however think that it is wrong to say that to record the sins of a prophet, for only one was sinless, disqualify the words as the words of G-d, For example take Isaiah when he said "I am undone." His sin was actually vulgarity he was a man of unclean lips. Just because Christ spoke through David did not mean he agreed with the original context of the words.
messiahbenlevi 2 years ago
the blind leading the blind...
mumuwu 2 years ago
It might be proper to look to the use of the word 'terrible' and place it in the correct context. lol... this video is silly. Kind regards,
Lanark8 2 years ago
Excellent job, AndrewcBain.
naturerules777 2 years ago
is there any precedent within the church for believing 'all' of the psalms are only Jesus speaking or is this your own version of 'private interpretation'? I've read a lot over the years, Catholic, Orthodox, and Protestant, and can't say I've ever ran across this thought anywhere. The assumption that the apostles only applied the psalms to Christ is is surely an extreme case of eisogesis.
spiffybumble 2 years ago
Woooah !! I read 'Mere Christianity' almost EVERY year. I own two copies of the book. It never occurred to me that CSL had these issues ? This here that you posted is interesting. Hmm...
For the record, I curse sometimes. Am I going to hell ? I probably won't mind if the idiots that made me curse would be going ahead of me !
ticovaldezmd 2 years ago
C.S. Lewis' words are welcome to my ears, hhowever critical they may be of something I love, the Psalms. The commentator here has thoughts of his own which interest me not.
ignatiuszee 2 years ago
God will change this man..
GenesisSimpleMe 2 years ago
omg this is a voice from elder scrolls oblivion... scary that i know im such a geek :P
reddeadlys 2 years ago
First off, i agree with handtrembler. Also, the things in pslams are not as bad as C.S. Lewis says they are.
JOEPATURNO91 2 years ago
The Psalms that he is speaking of are defined as imprecatory Psalms. David was a king and a warrior ,therefore he would encounter political situations and would also have to fight the enemies of Israel. I could go further but it is to in depth.
prcghal 2 years ago
Gett off your high horse
cthreadgill 2 years ago
well, do his opinion make him a non-Christian? I think all Christians have misleading beliefs. In particular, as long as we grow in faith.
God is th eonly one who knows.
agfigueroaa 2 years ago
To - biggyph001
1 Thess 5:14 And we exhort you, brethren, admonish the disorderly, encourage the fainthearted, support the weak, be longsuffering toward all.
You got the first.... don't forget those calls to us after that. Not all of us have "safe" and "orderly" places to throw out complicated ideas and discussions. Those that do, need not be chatting and wasting their time online to comment on 'youtube' videos that could be used to spark someone's interest or intellect.
mrg923 3 years ago
I appreciate your thoughts. I agree and disagree. I think it is important to remember that the Psalms are both prophecy of Christ's thoughts, suffering, judgement, etc...... but also of David's. That is the point. It is very human emotion, thought, belief, doubt that is revealed in the midst of revealing the truth about it. David's desire to "curse his enemy's" was in fact written to be paralleled with the truth found in Christ's judgement later.
mrg923 3 years ago
Remind them of these things, and solemnly charge them in the presence of God not to wrangle about words, which is useless and leads to the ruin of the hearers. Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, accurately handling the word of truth. But avoid worldly and empty chatter, for it will lead to further ungodliness, and their talk will spread like gangrene.
Ponder this scripture before posting such things to Youtube, please.
biggyph00l 3 years ago
CS Lewis could think for himself!
TheUnnamedGent 3 years ago
Ah, of course- who but andrew c bain?
Ya gotta be careful with CS Lewis; he wasn't always a Christian and some of his writing is from that time- others from a growing period where he merely vents ignorance rather than glories in understanding.
handtrembler 3 years ago
Andrew C. Bain is a tool.
krossdriven1 3 years ago
I should add also that in Psalm 51:4 David lies saying that he sinned only against God when he also sinned against Bathsheba and Uriah (whom he had killed). In verse 5, therefore, the unborn child rebukes David for his lie. In verse 6 David worships God for the miracle of the unborn child rebuking him from the "hidden part." Verse 5 is not a teaching of inherited sin, but a correction of David's lie in verse 4.
junkkaddress 3 years ago
The apostles never said ALL the Psalms "were Christ's experiences" as you put it. Some Psalms are Messianic and some of the Psalms that are David's experiences have some Messianic material. But the Psalms as a whole are not "Christ's experiences." C.S. Lewis is far more correct that you here.
junkkaddress 3 years ago
Pick your battles.
Maria4Revolution 3 years ago
Yes Indeed.
Kowdog 3 years ago
i did'nt listen to the whole audio of this. but what i would say is that the book of psalm is the most naked book in the bible, in which the writer express his heart out to the Lord openly. in joy, in gladness, and in even when someone done us wrong. The main essence of it, is that the Lord cares every part of our lives and He will listen to our cry,complaints and praises.
reueltr 3 years ago
C.S.Lewis was a counterfeit Christian and a "closet Catholic."
offline111 3 years ago
good one :)
Kowdog 3 years ago
Repeat after me. Aaanglicaaan. lol
Kowdog 3 years ago 2
christ didn't say "But these HOSTILE to me, those not desiring me to reign over them, bring them here and EXECUTE THEM BEFORE ME." it was a man in a parable! christ would never say that!
Hawkstar888 3 years ago 2
thanks for pointing that out, i am tired of people misquoting Christ. unfortunately this parable is often quoted as a command from Christ.
icecreamarmageddon 3 years ago
icecream-it is a quote from Christ-it was a parable which he said-and in context it is speaking about the Second Coming.
freezingstill 2 years ago
Hawkstar888, it is a quote from Christ-it was a parable which he said-and in context it is speaking about the Second Coming.
freezingstill 2 years ago
Oh yes, I see. If man curses his neighbor or commits violence against his neighbor, then that's bad. If God or Jesus curses man or commits violence against man, that's not evil. Hmmm... Doesn't seem like a very loving God. Doesn't the Bible also say that God is more loving than man? And yet Man can somehow see that this "Loving God" is willing to torture man in a way that man can recognize as evil? Stop justifying evil and hatred as expressions of morality and good.
RayyM2 3 years ago
that's ignorant. study harder.
jbbremerton 3 years ago 2
It's not so ignorant at all if you read it again. You should probably read a lil more of Brian McLaren
victor95405 3 years ago
Lol! This man's voice is off the computer game "Oblivion"! Interesting stuff.
SkateyRaiden 3 years ago
I thought it was the same voice actor.
ZeroShift5000 3 years ago
i have read this book.
and this video is simply put: out of context.
Anyone watching this video, please read the whole book
blankpapers 3 years ago 20
Did CS Lewis ever repent of what he said? Sometimes evil words get recorded but are repented of later without paper record.
I think the psalms are very important. Because certain ones predict the crucifiction of Jesus in perfect detail. Even though the Psalms were written hundreds of years prior to Christ's birth, they describe exactly what was to happen to Him during His coming.
galatian5 3 years ago
The gospel is that Christ Died For our sins and raised himself up from the dead, and he is returning to rapture the church and judge the world. Repent and be saved
kevin5749 3 years ago 4
AndrewcBain is a dangerous heretic, and is one of the wolves in sheeps clothing that King jesus warned about in
----------
"Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves" — Matthew 7:15
kevin5749 3 years ago
those who choose do not believe will suffer God's eternal judgment. our pride and arrogance in opposing the creator of the univderse, is sufficient to eternally damn all of mankind. only God, king Jesus can pay for our sins against God
kevin5749 3 years ago
the law holds us condemed, king Jesus (king auslan in the chronicles of narnia) has redeemed us from the curse of sis and death. for all who believe and repent(stop opposing YHWYGod The ancient of days our Creator) they will be saved.
kevin5749 3 years ago
Christianity stinks of death.
xwsftassell 3 years ago
praying for you
mcarey 3 years ago
"Christianity stinks of death"
And the Greeks too viewed thanatos (death) as the supreme ordering principle of one's life.
neothomist1275 3 years ago
Mr. Lewis was a good man but like all people he had his imperfections and shortcomings. Also the Psalms are not all from David. Some may have been composed as late as the Babylonian Captivity.
DrStevenz 3 years ago
Learn this-God DOES hate. Period. All your debating and quibbling about what this or that word means, or what intent these or those Psalms were written with, is pointless. For those of you with the desire to do so, I suggest you truly begin to learn what these passages actually say by taking the time to ask a believing, Orthodox Jew. Until then, you are essentially 'lost in the sauce' just as you have been for many centuries.
Cliner97 3 years ago
The real truth is this, Christianity, or the worship of a man, named Jesus, is itself an affront to God almighty. I could frankly care less about what Mr. Lewis thought, because as is the case with 9 out of 10 Christians, all they really know of scripture are the abominably mistranslated and forged documents. People, what you call the 'New Testament' is nothing more than a wretched collection of lies and half truths which have been per your 'Bible' tagged onto the Jewish Torah.
Cliner97 3 years ago
Bet you couldn't convince the Apostle Paul of that gibberish.
wotruth 3 years ago
The New Testament is what speaks of love, the Old Testament is what speaks of hate.
Both of them are just piles of puke mixed together into a bigger pile of puke called the Bible.
KattungeMedMotorsag 3 years ago
The imprecatory Psalms are honest expressions of the sinful human heart in the presence of God, who searches our hearts (Ps 139:23) and sees the hate He wants to remove. Jesus fulfilled these psalms and identified with them, though without sin or the need to curse His enemies, because they are under Father-God's curse already. David was inspired by the Spirit to write them; we pray the imprecatory psalms when we feel the hate God wants to remove from our hearts.
thecounselor1 3 years ago
2Ti 3:16 All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2Ti 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
eliseo530 3 years ago
can´t believe i´m even commenting on this.. you are sooo way out of context...
thomashaahr 3 years ago
That Luke 19 passage was a parable, again you take something completely out of context.
themange59 3 years ago
It's easy to find something about a man, then exploit it, C.S Lewis was brilliant, Although Only a man. He may have had his own relationship with God. To my understanding, The Holy book is Gods written word....And As I read More and More, EVERY WORD had MEANING..
SonWeak 3 years ago
Anyone interested in discussing CS Lewis can join me in my video chatroom...
blogtv(dot)com/Shows/44572
Thanks,
AB
AndrewcBain 3 years ago
There is much splashing about here as of fish out of water. The PSALMS are "songs" and in that they are an entreaty, an attempt to dialogue, with the Divine. They may very well project childish or "unenlightened" positions such as asking the Divine Parent to impart justice, even violence, to "enemies" on behalf of those dependent upon such intervention. If you want to be literal, fine. If you hear in them the heartfelt pop song of love divine entwined w/ divine love, even better. GodHelpUsAll.
mumicimo 3 years ago
Or you can call it glorifying God, David was favored in Gods eyes, I doubt we have the relationship that David Had with God.
SonWeak 3 years ago
'Unenlightened'? By what measure do you calculate that? By the standards of today and this world? This is the very attitude which has infused itself into men to bastardize words and scriptures in the past and all along, and then at some point what you end up with is NOT even close to what was actually and initially written. I suggest you people take up another hobby.
Cliner97 3 years ago
It's a good book but this is ackward indeed,come to think of it!good vid!
RoelGeurtsen 4 years ago
David was also an adulterer and a murderer, but judged others for being the same. What separated him from the others was his reconciliation with God. And Christ quotes many many things from the Old Testament, not just Psalms. I'm not saying that God didn't write through David, but that doesn't mean these weren't David's feelings. You need to stop taking writers out of context too. If you want to debate something, don't distort others' perception in order to better your argument.
cmc1of3 4 years ago
Whatever. C.S. Lewis was brilliant and had the right to reflect on the Psalms the way he did, sacred though they may be.
strands333 4 years ago
Prophetic-shmetic, if you are persecuted this is comfort, David's Psalms that is, after all Yehashua is seated at the right hand of Elohim until His enemies are made His footstool. It's only time, only time is it not? For C.S. Lewis, when he opens his eyes, the Great White Throne.
Shalom.
aaronkraicshtein 4 years ago
How blessed will be the one who seizes and dashes your little ones Against the rock.
Psalms 137:9
umhamlin 4 years ago
C. S. Lewis was heretical on many things..the worship of this man, by deluded, modern, "Evan-jelly-fish-icals", is a sure sign of sickness, in the Body of Christ. Plus, Lewis has "spawned" ungodly clones of himself, such as Ravi Zacharias and Alistair McGrath. With these men (following Lewis), philosophy REPLACES theology (but see 1 Timothy 4:16)! Beware!
29958867 4 years ago
ummm....Really now? I would be forced to disagree. David can't be a prophet because he was not always right, and the Bible says that if a prophet is wrong once he is not a prophet. Also, not all the psalms are written by David (theres notes acrediting them under the chapter heading in most Bibles. Sorry man, gonna say you're wrong, Lewis may not have been right, but you most certainly aren't (or else you need to offer better evidence).
WPDX9 4 years ago
Your dumb on purpose!
lkiuyrtfglo 4 years ago
Divisive.
ChristusPacem 4 years ago
If you believe all that stuff.
CrabtasticBudgie 4 years ago
I think the Psalms were as Lewis said the sinful cursings of David and, to some degree unintentionally, prophetic. "It is better than one man die than that the whole nation perish" was not spoken by God through a man. It was spoken by man and God ordained for him to say it. The Holy Spirit may have spoken through David's mouth but doesn't it also say that the prophets searched their own scriptures to find out when, and in what manner, the Messiah would come?
CrabtasticBudgie 4 years ago
I'm sort of an agnostic now, though. I just know all this, because I was raised in a Christian home. To me it's like arguing about Star Wars. Just because I know it's fiction now, doesn't mean there isn't credence to the argument that Luke Skywalker is Vader's son. I can see the logic behind this or that theology and still think the premise for the whole thing may be false.
CrabtasticBudgie 4 years ago
David likely didn't know when he was saying it that what he was saying was prophetic.
CrabtasticBudgie 4 years ago
type-o: "than one man should die" = "that one man should die". But if you get hung up on obvious type-o's, I really don't care to bother arguing the actual point with you.
CrabtasticBudgie 4 years ago
The Psalms reveal that God respects honesty & the truth of where we are in life. What God hates most is piety & phariseeism that is outward religion but inwardly dead.
SpitfireOverThames 4 years ago
The problem Lewis was having with the imprecatory psalms is cleared up in the concept of "intrusion ethics" set forth by the theologian Meredith Kline who taught for years at Westminster Seminary and Gordon-Conwell Seminary.
Gary7even 4 years ago
Jesus never said any of the things claimed by you or any other man...As his story was produced at the council of necene (300 years after his death), where it was decided what he said, what he was and what the official story was to be. Many at that council did not even consider him divine, like the Jews of his day.
yerushalayim 4 years ago
life has a limit,but knowledge is with out limit.for the limited to pursue the unlimited is futile. to know this and still pursue knowledge is even more futile. in doing good avoid fame in doing evil avoid punishment. thus, by pursueing the middle way, you may perserve body, fulfill your life, look after your parents, and live out your years. peace
ReDbOAtHuNgGaR 4 years ago
also you dont need religion to be a follwer of god your a slave to your hand downed beleaf. god dont need religion you do and i dont mean you i mean anyone who follows a religion there all the same, god is love god is one theres your truth,try reading something other then your bible read something thats brings us together no pull us apart reilgion seperates and segragates us ablosih it peace.
ReDbOAtHuNgGaR 4 years ago
you forgot "y'all" and "I reckon"
CrabtasticBudgie 4 years ago
its just a thought provoking review to be honest it was interesting to get Lewis' view on the whole thing while watching the video as well as the guy arguing/replying
malcolmXretlar 4 years ago
CS Lewis is smarter than you. Biblefreaks seek to iron out the Bible so that it never contradicts itself when the Christian intent on distinguishing the truth, realizes that the Bible is merely a sounding board of the religious doctrines throughout the ages, some of that doctrine containing popular thought.
otakujpop 4 years ago
CS Lewis, a brilliant author was indeed dead wrong here on the Psalms.
The Psalms are to be sung in Churches per Colossians 3:16- so dashing Babylonian infants against rocks must be typical, given there is no unclean people (per Acts and Peter's vision). Also there is no example of anyone doing that to Babylonian children even in the Old Testament.
beast543210 4 years ago
Jesus said, "Suffer the children to come unto Me for of such is the Kingdom of heaven" and Jesus sang the Psalms. So obviously the meaning is with regard to Mystery Babylon and the corruption of doctrines- indeed Babylonian doctrine did infiltrate the church- and still does as described in the Book of Revelation. We are to kill off those falsehoods by dashing these doctrinal "infants" against the rocks before they develop into full blown adult deceptions.
beast543210 4 years ago
don't distort what Jesus said. He said "let the children come to me and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to ones such as these". Matthew 19:14, Mark 10:14, Luke 18:16. I don't know where you got your quote from.
ERICROJO156 4 years ago
religon should be destroyed and god will be happy
ReDbOAtHuNgGaR 4 years ago
You could not be more correct-- precisely the meaning of dashing those infants against the rocks. Religion comes in all forms, the worst form of religion is atheism.
beast543210 4 years ago
HOLD ON FOR A SECOND, everyone hold the phone:
CHRIST PREACHES TO LOVE YOUR ENEMIES, TO PRAY FOR THOSE WHO MISTREAT YOU AND TO BLESS THOSE WHO CURSE YOU; Don't get confused that Christ is cursing his enemies through David
WHEN CHRIST WAS ON THE CROSS WHAT DID HE ASK HIS FATHER TO DO TO HIS ENEMIES?
HE SAID "FATHER FORGIVE THEM,THEY DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING!" (Luke 23:34)
ERICROJO156 4 years ago
everyone, read these things in the New Testament!:
Loving your enemies: (LUKE 6:27-36)
"forgive us our sins, as we forgive those who sin against us."(LUKE 11:4, the Lord's prayer)
"FOR GOD DIDN'T SEND HIS SON TO CONDEMN THE WORLD, BUT TO SAVE THE WORLD THROUGH HIM."
(John 3:17)
ERICROJO156 4 years ago
There is a time when God will judge those who do evil to the innocent, who harbor murder and sin in their hearts; As for Christ, he has called us to be gentle and humble in spirit just as he is.
David wrote what was on his mind I think, and at times the Holy Spirit propheied through him. As for these days we live in now, Christ has given us the commandment to love others and to do good to those who do wrong to us because the Kingdom of Heaven is near!
ERICROJO156 4 years ago
There is a time when God will judge those who do evil to the innocent, who harbor murder and sin in their hearts; As for Christ, he has called us to be gentle and humble in spirit just as he is.
David wrote what was on his mind I think, and at times the Holy Spirit propheied through him. As for these days we live in now, Christ has given us the commandment to love others and to do good to those who do wrong to us because the Kingdom of Heaven is near!
ERICROJO156 4 years ago
God has appointed Jesus to be both the savior and judge of the world, and indeed he has the right because he lived a life pleasing to God. But as the messiah and son of God, he teaches mercy and love;
People, it is fine time that you know the heart of Christ, Jesus takes no pleasure in condemning his enemies.
I don't think that David wrote the psalms always in the words of Christ, and in Luke 20:41-47 I see that Jesus is saying that it is by the mouth of David that he writes pslams.
ERICROJO156 4 years ago
At 4:55, The creator of this video writes that Jesus said, "these hostile to me ... execute them". However, this passage is called 'The PARABLE of the ten minas'! In the bible, that quotation comes from the mouth of a king Jesus speaks of, not from Jesus himself!!
Therefore, the Psalms are NOT the word of Jesus.
But all this is irrelevant: there is NO GOD. The bible is completely outdated and dangerous to the development of mankind.
We look forward to the death of this hideous religion.
PeteUtonic 4 years ago
PeteUtonic: Do you know that there is no God? If it is your belief, then there is a very good probability, perhaps 99% chance, that God exist, granted that you know 1% of everything. If you want to discover the truth about the Bible, study the propechies of old that have come true. Keep an open mind, and an open heart.
Peace :)
Mekelsior 4 years ago 2
I believe what the Bible says and i believe what ever is in it and no body can convince me other wise. God gave the men of the bible the knowledge and the spirit to write the Bible. I love God and nothing will change that.
Heisomaga 4 years ago 3
Amen bro! :)
yonoid88 3 years ago
Well, the nobleman in Luke 19, is not Christ, but a historical reference to Herod Archelaus, and the delegation of Jews who went before him to Rome to oppose him recieving the title of King (check out the footnotes of Luke 19 in NAB).
oneluv66 4 years ago
The story is a recasting of Herod Archaleus into the role of the Pharaoh in Exodus 5, and Luke contrasts this character with the Lord who rides on an ass, who "brings forth the prisoners from the dungeon (Zechariah 9)."
oneluv66 4 years ago
I don't know about anyone else, but if it's David calling upon us to bash kid's brains out, that's understandable, because he's human and tainted by human wants, jealousy and desires. If it's Christ himself telling us it's ok and in fact actively encouraged to bash kid's brains out...
Well, I don't know about you. That makes me seriously doubt who it is I'm supposed to be worshipping...
daringdaydreamer 4 years ago
I'm afraid that this leads us to an inevitable conclusion. The Bible, and the Old Testament for that matter, bear the un-indelible marks of not only God, but its writers, who were just men like the rest of us. Each individual is going to have to decide whose thoughts they are reading.
Lgilsig 4 years ago
Andrew: great to hear C.S. Lewis; good work, mate, really; good stuff on YouTube. Denominations, doctrines, even scipture and what is said there is useful piecemeal only to a true believer. I pray everyday that our Lord will destroy the evil Kazars who are destroying my folk...my prayers to my Lord are honest as He heard me before I spoke. What is prayer from a wise man if it is not honest?
bwsmith7 4 years ago
Andrew, I think we worship different Gods. Good luck with yours, I'm sticking with mine.
Lgilsig 4 years ago
Not being a religious individual, I'm not sure I see the point here. I don't think the point is if Christ or David is calling upon us to bash children's brains out, or slay those judged wicked. I think the act being called for, in and of itself, is wicked, and who speaks it is irrelivant.
Lgilsig 4 years ago
On the other hand, God says "vengeance is mine, I will repay" (Heb 10:30).
So, it would be perfectly consistent for Christ - the Psalmist - to curse his enemies with Psalms. This would contradict no other part of the Bible. Because the Bible never says God is obliged to love all men.
Thus we see that the Scripture is perfectly consistent with itself. At least on this point in particular =)
AndrewcBain 4 years ago
G'day Lgilsig. Thanks for your comment. You wrote, "I think the act being called for, in and of itself, is wicked, and who speaks it is irrelivant."
Well, it all has to do with self-consistency of the Bible, doesn't it? Christ said men are to love their enemies. But the Psalmist hated his enemies. So if the Psalmist was a mere man, then a lot of the Psalms would be downright sinful.
AndrewcBain 4 years ago
Andrew, I think there is more here than the consistancy of the Bible. If, to make he Bible self-consistant, it is nessessary to believe that the son of God wants us to bash the brains of children out, let the Bible remain as contradictory as it is.
Lgilsig 4 years ago
Hi again Lgilsig. Thanks for responding. You wrote me, "If, to make the Bible self-consistent, it is necessary to believe that the son of God wants us to bash the brains of children out, let the Bible remain as contradictory as it is."
AndrewcBain 4 years ago
OK. I think I could show the "children of Babylon" are the non-elect. That is, Christ wants to judge all the unbelievers that have ever lived (Babylon is figurative for false religion normally).
However, even if the text was only talking about children...
What's wrong with that? Lgilsig - no offence, but do you want a God that respects man and tip toes around man?
AndrewcBain 4 years ago
That being, by definition, would not be God. That being would be putting the interests of man above his own.
On the contrary, the God of the Bible exhibits a character infinitely superior to man. He gives Christ's Righteousness to those who don't deserve anything.
And he reprobates those who think they are most entitled to salvation. See Christ's approach to people in the four Gospels. Here we see that God does not act conditionally. He doesn't want favors and promises from man.
AndrewcBain 4 years ago
Why? He doesn't need them. Man is changing, dying, stupid and powerless. God is Eternal, all-wise, controlling everything.
So if God desires to kill infants, what's wrong with that? If God was limited by "man's rights" and so-called "innate rights", then God would be subject to man! He would cease to be God. This is why the God of the Bible says, "Forming light, and creating darkness; making peace, and creating evil. I, Jehovah, do all these things." (Isa 45:7).
AndrewcBain 4 years ago
Man is a product of God, and therefore is not stupid, and powerless. Changing and dying, yes.
Lgilsig 4 years ago
Not being a 'religious individual', what do you know of irrelevantcy?
bwsmith7 4 years ago
bwsmith, I'm sorry but I don't understand your question. I don't think I mentioned irrelevancy. Could you re-phrase what you are asking?
Lgilsig 4 years ago
Hear hear
daringdaydreamer 4 years ago
Lewis was a literary critic, so it is no surprise he was critical of some of the psalms. Otherwise he wrote much on his love for the psalms and their lovely poetry, poetry which is imparted to every translation.
Judge373 4 years ago
Christ DOES say Christ says, "But these HOSTILE to me, those not desiring me to reign over them, bring them here and EXECUTE THEM BEFORE ME." but he says this whilst telling a story. please dont quote out of context.
purdy5 4 years ago
The Psalms are the recorded inner thoughts of the writers. The writers, being human, expose the full range of human feelings (including the bile and hatred). God doesn't shield this or comment. It is for us to work out just how vile and amazing humans can be. CS Lewis was quite right. So stop attributing to God the same venom expressed by his all-too-human followers. The Psalms are awful by an large, and are the well-spring of the religious faiths they spawned.
aslanmaskadov 4 years ago
THE PSALMS ARE BEAUTIFUL BEYOND DESCRIPTION.
Poetry, prayer, and TRUTH in song and poetry.
lenbenhear 4 years ago
I'm not convinced that this is Christ speaking through all the Psalms, rather than David. I don't think Lewis is right to accuse the Psalmist of naivety, and I don't think that David is mistaken to ask God 'Wilt thou not slay the wicked, O God?' Vengeance is the Lord's, and David is expressing a certain doubt, or a request for reconfirmation.
aochampion 4 years ago
wow some of that reasoning is really reaching.
NoFaithTheist 4 years ago
he means the hate in the psalms not the psalms I guess, but I lov ethe Psalms. :)
~BSG
blacksheepgirl 4 years ago
Tradition has a purpose too.And in this case is only too obvious if you use your own common sense and only read a few of the psalms that they're all about human experiences of joy,of penance etc
What would Christ have to repent for if the video is correct?
ionagarbiceanu220 4 years ago
What nonsense.And how dangerous it is to misinterpret things like that and it happens too often nowadays.There is a long tradition of two thousand years in the Catholic and Orthodox church of interpreting the Bible,generations of saints who were in closeness with God wrote many books regarding what this religion is all about,a real real treasure for the confused modern world we live in.
ionagarbiceanu220 4 years ago
This prick is dead, God is Alive!!!
FlappyDraws 4 years ago
Their is no hatred in the Psalms!If the Holy Spirit does not read the word through you, then I can see how one would think that their is hatred in the psalms.Our minds are not to think with but to obey with.If Abraham had used his brain he would never had slain his Son.If Noah had used his head he would never had built the Ark.If Moses had used his brain he would never had done the things he did.Little children don't think to well but they love well.
tracmag 4 years ago
"Our minds are not to think with..." Oh my God, what a statement! You might need to think with it a little more, then you might realize that Abraham didn't slay his son.
Gabe517 4 years ago
Exactly,
Don't leave your brains in the car when go to church.
We are to worship God with heart mind & spirit.
How can you worship God effectively if you're a mindless zombie?
We are to surrender our will to God not abandon our brains.
Maybe Tracmag meant to say is that we should put more faith in God & less in ourselves (intellect).
hoots7 4 years ago
Abraham did not have to sacrifice Isaac... Genesis 22:13
And Abraham lifted up his eyes, and looked, and behold behind him a ram caught in a thicket by his horns: and Abraham went and took the ram, and offered him up for a burnt offering in the stead of his son.
hoots7 4 years ago
Mr. Lewis's shock is highly disingenuous.
How can hatred be seen as shocking when it comes from a religion?
Hatred of others & legitimizing their oppression is the raison d'etre for every major religion, ever.
"I come not to bring peace, but a sword."
You are the Elect, ergo, ALL others are Antichrist.
ANY means used to oppose them are sanctified by their holy ends.
Every future moral dilemma has now been pre-digested for you.
You never need to think again - as long as you have faith.
jamesmorgandavies 4 years ago
Now that you've summed up religion, you'll never have to think again. Everyone's happy.
superbjd 4 years ago
I'm pretty sure the cursing psalms weren't christ cursing his enemies. I'm pretty sure they were king david or whoever the true writer of the psalms were. There seems to be no logical connection from point a to b in your arguement that "Clearly, the Cursing Psalms MUST be Christ ALONE speaking about his OWN enemies."
davidiii 4 years ago
this is God on jugdement day- not while He has was walking on the earth- people have had their time to repent
barrypatrickius 4 years ago
so ignorant. anyway.. on with real life.
corybrandan 4 years ago
Out of curiosity, am I also to believe that ALL of Isaiah was written from Christ's POV? When Mathew quotes from Isaiah 7:14 as a prophecy of the virgin birth of Christ, he should have read a little further. He would have found the next few chapters seem rather to be a narrative about the birth of a son (Maher-Shalal-Hash-Baz) that was born to Isaiah himself and a prophetess as a sign for a king to go to war.
phantastes 4 years ago
dude, you missed the word "not" - he says we must NOT either try to explain them away or yield... not only do other copies of this text add that word and if you listen the audio adds it as well, but the rest of the paragraph only makes sense that way. I think you'll agree that adding "NOT" makes CS Lewis a clear advocate.
shelahspeak 4 years ago
There IS hatred in the Psalms, but, there is also prophecy in them that has come true. One Psalm that has come to light, is Psalm 83. Read it and see if it doesn't fit with the Islamic attitude toward Israel. Psalm 83 seems more true, due to the current leader of Iran.
Nallanyesmar 4 years ago 2
Great video!
thornwellhead 4 years ago
Maybe you'll actually answer this question: Was Paul sinning when he pronounced those who preach a false gospel to be anathema in Galatians 1? I still want to know if you actually like any Christian teachers, theologians or ministers, or if you think that most of them are heretics.
jobber00 4 years ago
Hi Jobber. You ask about Paul's curse in Galatians 1. Is Paul's cursing here different that the cursing in the Psalms? Well, does Paul exhibit any personal hatred against particular individuals? No. In Galatians 1, Paul is merely echoing Christ, "he that believes not is damned" (Mk16:16). The Cursing Psalms are different than this.
AndrewcBain 4 years ago
Paul doesn't say, "I hate them" about His enemies, so he is not sinning. Compare this to the Psalmist. "O Jehovah, do not I hate those hating You? And am I not detesting those rising against You?" (Psalm 139:21) "I hate them with a perfect hatred; they have become my enemies." (Psalm 139:22).
AndrewcBain 4 years ago
Only God is allowed to hate, right? "Esau, I hated", he says. But we men are commanded not to hate, so the cursing Psalms would be sinful if David was saying them about his own enemies . Clearly, the Cursing Psalms MUST be Christ ALONE speaking about his OWN enemies.
AndrewcBain 4 years ago
I think you've made a very strong case that the imprecatory Psalms are spoken from Christ's point of view. I'm still not convinced that all psalms are - have to think about that. Btw, this is the book of his that made me wince most- especially in ch 11 where he seems to encourage postmodernism by casting doubt on Paul's inspiration.
AQuinault 4 years ago
Personally I find many of Lewis' work to be full of occultic idealogy and undertones. Thanks for sharing but whoever wrote this (whether Lewis or otherwise) failed to view scripture in total. Grabbing snippets here and there can lead to many presuppositions.