Added: 1 year ago
From: squidgybidge
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  • Are you from Scotland?

  • @panzerivtank Sure am.

  • @squidgybidge Cook, I'm from Wales hehe

  • @panzerivtank cool*

    

  • I left mine in for 17 hours, and it was still sticking like shit on a stick, should i have left em in for 24 hours, or should it have come off already, cheers

  • Great vid, wasn't aware that there was anything we could use over here in the uk, thank you so much

  • @AlamAbaAb Hey mate. Glad to help. Dettol isn't the only option for us here in the UK. "Fairy Power Spray" is another option. Both have their good and bad points.

    Dettol it is the smell and "FPS" it is the cost.

  • soooo, don't add water right? *runs to the kitchen in a panic*

  • @panzerivtank That's right buddy. Only use water at the very end when giving it a final rinse. Otherwise stay completely clear of water to allow the dettol to do its job to its best.

    Love the addendum to your comment. I can visualise the sprint.

  • @squidgybidge I did this dettol paint stripping thanks to squidgybidge and i can say personally it worked a treat when you strip the paint the models do get a little sticky after this process but once they dry it is great and my models lost no detail one bit :) thanks mate.

  • @chaosengineer84 Good stuff buddy. Glad its helped you out.

  • Any solution to the Dettol smell after paint removal. I first read about this on a forum and it mentioned the smell, so i then searched Youtube for visual examples. Any help?

  • @scubacrow Unfortunately, there seems to be nothing that can be done about the smell. Even washing it in soapy water after a complete strip does not remove it. You just need to wait for the smell to naturally dissipate and once primed and repainted it is no where near as intense.

    Alternatively use "Fairy Power Spray", as it leaves no smell and is just as effective, but it does cost considerably more. I have a vid on it, on my channel, if you need to check it out.

  • Does it work just as well on resin miniatures?

  • @Spartan17725 I have tried it on finecast sprue's and had no issues and resin from non GW companies. I haven't used it on say "Forgeworld Resin". However, other people have told me its safe on that too. To be safe always try it on inconspicuous or spare part.

  • @squidgybidge okay, cheers mate.

  • Wow ...tried bleach but it stinks & it deadly on your stuff

  • @Egg473 To be fair, Dettol has a wiff all of its own as well.

  • That's just the regular acrylic, but what about the pre-painted ones which used enamel, which is quite tougher. Got an idea?

  • @nozidnolram I have stripped enamels with Dettol with no issues. It would either have been humbrol or airfix enamel paint from the pot that was on a model that I repainted last year and needed my original paint job that I had given it removed.

    Stronger substances, such as Nitro-Mors or even brake fluid can be used. However these destroy plastics and are very dangerous chemicals. USE WITH EXTREME CAUTION.

    Hope this helps.

  • @squidgybidge Thanks, I will try that. If that doesn't work then hey, there's probably some type of acid I could try. Kidding!

  • What's the full name of the Dettol product used in the video, I picked up some Dettol disinfectant pine from Asda as its all they had (apart from sprays) but it didn't work, the liquid went soapy when I scrubbed at the mini too.

  • @MrSkorm Hey Buddy. Its the original Dettol product. i.e Dettol Antiseptic Liquid. Its a brown coloured solution that turns water a milky colour if its added to it. its the one that contains Chloroxylenol.

    On Dettols own website follow these links: Products; Personal Hygiene; Antiseptic Liquid.

    The disinfectant that you used is the wrong product, but normally found in the same isle, but on a different shelf.

  • awesome and informative.. thanks, been looking for a way to do this for weeks

  • @RazzlePhoxx Glad to be of service. Welcome to your Dettol addiction.

  • Found here in my new Home of New Zealand. I used it watered down and this video proved how stupid that was.

  • @Bmandakilla Not stupid. Just lacking information before you started. Hope you have had more success with later attempts.

  • Hi just wondering what effects it would have on glues and on necron guns the green part

  • @123gavint Never tried it on the green part, but I reckon it would make it go slightly cloudy. Depends on your glue and how well it was used, but it can soften up glue bonds.

  • cool vid mate cheers

  • @dunk1978banker No problems buddy. Hope its of use to you.

  • using this process as of 2pm australia time..

    little tub i have has a screw top lid bought two cheapy tooth brushes will check if this works the way i hope it will 2pm 2morrow arvo ^_^

    Thanks Mr Squidgybidge :D

  • @chaosengineer84 Welcome to your Dettol addiction. You shouldn't have any issues. The process works for me on around 99% of the minis that I strip. Occasionally, there is a white primer that I can't remove otherwise nearly every time it works well.

  • @squidgybidge Yeah it works perfect mind you these miniatures have been painted since 1999 and the paint just came off, the white primer from back in those days is slowly coming off but apart from that i love the results so far and it is not even 2pm here yet :).

    All the paint is bubbling off, i have an old Abbadon the dispoiler Metal miniature that i wanted to paint just because of all the small details on him. ^_^

  • it has been 9 hours and i have stripped 6 orks :)

  • @pacaha Super news. Glad it helped you out.

  • thanks for helping and all my men look new

  • @pacaha Your welcome. Glad to be of service.

  • Great video. Soo many space marines to soak from when i was awful at painting. Works like a charm though some need a second short soak for multiple layers and tiny gaps. Its now just labelled as Dettol Liquid Antiseptic with Chloroxylenol, around £3 for 750ml in tesco and asda. Thanks again

  • @LightningSeed88 Glad it worked out for you dude.

  • Will it be harder or will it need more time soaking,if ur minis are recently painted-(a week,a month,a year)?

  • @emniko911 Some of the very old primers are difficult to remove, but I've had zero issues with on minis with fresh paint on them. In fact they strip the easiest in my experience.

  • @squidgybidge thank you that video was very helpful,from the video I think this is the best stuff to remove paint(no damage,pretty fast,pretty cheap-with one bottle you probably can clean 3-4 armies,its quite rare in my country but i can find it,so I think no one will have problems finding it.Awesome tutorial.

  • I'm in Canada where can i get dettol?

  • @77plugser Other users have told me that Dettol is available in Canada (buy it from supermarkets) and others have intimated that its called "Pine Sol" in the US, but made by a different manufacturer to the same formula.

  • I plan on giving this a go! I have some blood angels I murdered as a pre-teen and now as a twenty-something, I'm gonna test it out... I hope it works as well for me as it has for you! Thanks for the tip!

  • @nickdalby Should work for. Let us know the results. From the feedback I get it works the vast majority of the time, but some people seem to have issues with it.

    Fairy Power Spray is another method that is doing the rounds. But I believe its not re-usable and is a slightly more dangerous chemical.

  • @squidgybidge Hey man I've stripped about a dozen models so far with it - This is a solid gold technique - Thank you again! My local chemists is selling more dettol than they've ever done haha

  • @nickdalby Glad to be of service. Yeah I think I need to get shares in Dettol.

  • i left my space marines in a tub of dettol for like 24 hours , some of the paint came off but they kinda turned purple n sticky did i do something wrong?

  • @kenroth87 So long as you used "Antiseptic" the brown liquid undiluted, then you did the process correctly. On some mini's that I have gotten from ebay the paint has become sticky in the stripping process, but it always comes off with some elbow grease and occasionally a second session in the Dettol. Most often when it has become sticky it has been because I introduced water to the mini which seems to make the paint go claggy.

  • Well thats 4 bloodbowl teams cleaned, next up is my fantasy Chaos, BTW, dunno if your aware but Dettol strips the paint off metal minatures just as fast as the plastics. Deff Tip of the decade..cheers

  • @jackmcmadd Superb dude. Yeah I was aware that it works on metal. I have also used it on Citadel Fine(mis)cast. Well the sprue anyway and it had no deterioration on that either.

    Have not had the need to dip a full Finecast mini yet, but once I do I will do an accompanying vid to this one.

  • Cheers Squidge, not sure if this is turning in to a curse though. cleaned my human bloodbowl team using this method, the result was so good, i started on my skaven army(8000pts +). Now i'm thinking of redoing my dark elves, tomb kings, vampire counts, chaos and blood angels... you might wanna buy shares in dettol quickly lol.

    cheers top technique.

  • @jackmcmadd Oh dude tell me about it. After you have managed to get through that lot, you will have the inevitable thoughts of "I could paint that better now, my technique has improved" and the process begins again. Or half way through a model you dislike it and bung it in for a quick dip (unfortunately with my skill level it happens all to often.)

    Glad it is of use to you though.

  • do you know if i can use it inside an ultrasonic cleaner????

  • @mantharas77 I haven't ever done that. I wouldn't recommend it though, as the slag that comes off would leave your Ultrasonic cleaner in awful mess. I know some of the guys in US have tried "Simple Green" in an Ultrasonic cleaner and also in a stone tumbler and their equipment was left in a right mess. Better to use elbow grease and ruin a toothbrush, than ruin an expensive bit of equipment.

  • cheers , got all the paint off my 10 year old space wolfs with 5 bloody layers lol :D

  • @kristianlemar09 Superb news. I cheers me up every-time I hear of a success.

  • Im going to be testing this on some plastic figures ive customized in the past, but did a terrible paint job on them, and then stupidly decided to varnish them.

    Is it just the basic, simple dettol disinfectant/cleaning product with the green logo and the little sword through it that can be found in Supermarkets like Asda, Sainsburys and Tesco or is it some kind of special Warhammer cleaning product im being a bit stupid with?

  • @OwenDWF Hi Buddy.You must not use Dettol cleaner, it has to be Dettol Disinfectant. You can pick it up at any Supermarket, such as Asda, Tesco etc, but I get bulk bottles from Costco, as it works out far cheaper. It is the brown solution that turns the water a milky white if mixed together. It contains Chloroxylenol, which I believe is the chemical that allows for successful stripping of the mini's.

    No questions are stupid when it a new technique you are employing.

  • So glad i found this!

    no on to stripping my 8 year old space marines with 20 coats of paint LOL!!!!

  • @theliberator1 Yeah, I did the same with so many miniatures when I found the technique.

  • That's a very good tutorial - which has come just in time as a friend has just donated a whole load of half painted plastic and metal miniatures that need cleaning up before repainting for a Hellfrost rpg game! Good stuff

  • @TheCowboyHat Enjoy the game and glad to help.

  • I like your accent. :D

    

  • @Vulpane Thank You. Its Scottish.

  • Does it work on metal figures ?

  • @Camatrix Yes

  • Great method! At last something that is easily available (I'm in Ireland). I was looking for something that works on plastic but every bit of information lead only to "simple green" which is only for USA/Canada citizens ;-)

    Stripped 20+models, 60 more in the bath.

    Thanks for sharing.

  • @veelckoo You are welcome my friend.

  • Im going to do this tomorrow woo woo xD

  • @killingtimewatching After you have stripped your mini's, please leave some feedback on the results.

  • @squidgybidge

    gotta say works like a charm :D but for me I used a cheaper form of dettol equivalent of antiseptic liquid from the "Home brand" range in NSW Australia Woolworths stores. just leave it for a day works for me perfectly :D thanks guys and thanks squidgybidge

  • how much roughly is a decent sized bottle of dettol?

  • This stuff is called Pine Sol over in the US.

    Its the same exact product, just a different producer

  • @3ntomology Superb information. Thank you my friend.

  • @squidgybidge Youre very welcome. I have yet to try this method with my minas tirith minis which I painted (poorly) about 5 years ago. Although I will post my results here for you to see if my experience was similar to yours with Dettol :)

  • @3ntomology All feedback is welcome, as it helps to build the knowledge pool.

  • @kibbsmycat23 I would expect so. I haven't yet stripped any Revell models, but it should work fine. Try a bit of the sprue it came on with some paint on it first, but you shouldn't have any issues that I can think of.

  • finally i found a cheap and easy way to strip paint of my very old (10 yr old) space marines i dug up out of my attic and i could add some new life to them.

  • @megrasos Enjoy!

  • thank you sooooo much i just got some models from my friend that were caked with paint but now they look brand new. cheers.

    ps what part of scotland u from im from fife

  • @fearme453 You are welcome.

    I live in West Lothian.

    Do you shop in Kingdom of Adventure over in Kirkcaldy at all? If not check it out as Dave has a very cool wargaming and comic store.

  • @squidgybidge ye i have bought stuff from there its good. its about a 5 minute walk from the warhammer club i go to.

  • were could i get the dettol?

  • @bluebowmn Hi Buddy. It's a UK product and I do not know if its available in Canada, but it normally found in the cleaning supplies isle of any supermarket.

    Make sure its the "antiseptic liquid" which is brown in colour and goes white in water, as Dettol puts its name to many products.

  • @squidgybidge Dettol has been in Canada since before my parents were kids in the 1930's and is sold in the pharmacy as an antiseptic for cuts etc. Can be found in any supermarket with a pharmacy dept.

  • @gboleen Excellent news, a few commentors from the states said they don't get it over there so I (wrongly) assumed it was UK only product.

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  • @Supergruntyman I think your welcome is the appropriate response. If I am barking up the wrong tree please let me know.

  • Excellent video, thanks.

    Also, you have a lovely voice.

  • @Damuna Glad it's of use to you.

    Why thank you (I just blushed).

  • Thanks man !

    this works great on plastics and metal !

  • @amano1666 Glad that it worked well for you.

  • Just did it to another model and it disnt come off agaon does it matter if its a vehicle and does the model need to be fully submerged cos a bit of the bottom was showing

  • @NinjaBlitz159 Any part that is to be stripped of paint needs to be fully immersed in the Dettol for around 24 hours. Most of the vehicles that I have stripped have tended to take a bit more more scrubbing than my miniatures.

    Have the top coat colours been removed successfully?

    Key musts:

    1. Use only genuine Dettol Antiseptic liquid,

    2. Scrub in Dettol only - use water ONLY when rinsing (Never mix water and Dettol),

    3. Submerge fully for 24 hours,

    4. Scrub well with toothbrush.

  • The chaos black was sprayed on and not painted on does that make any difference???

  • @NinjaBlitz159 Not really. I never brush my undercoats on. They are always sprayed on. Chaos black has been used on many of my mini's and no issues in removing it, when the need arose.

    Do you have the correct Dettol?

    It needs to be "Dettol Antiseptic Liquid". Look on their official site under personal hygiene. Its a brown coloured liquid that goes white in water.

  • @NinjaBlitz159 yes the spray bonds to plastic better than potted paints and may require a second coat for each layer of paint.

  • When i did it the chaos black undercoat didnt come off ????????

  • @NinjaBlitz159 It is rare that I have had any issues when stripping models. Chaos black is a colour that normally comes off OK.

    Did you leave the mini fully immersed in the Dettol for 24 hours?

    If so, the only suggestion I can think of is to put it through the process again. I have had to do this on occasion, but never with GW paints.

  • @squidgybidge cheers

    

  • Thanks for this vid mate, I was told to use 'Modelstrip' to remove old paint, but the price for that stuff is a bit much - I will get a bottle of Dettol and give it a bash.

    I'll get back on here and let you know how I get on. Scotland The Brave.

  • @TheExStig Hope it works out well for you.

    I have only had a handful of models where some paint did not come off.

    But please leave your feedback after stripping, so that others are aware what happened.

    Make sure it is proper Dettol Disinfectan,t as a friend tried Poundlands non-branded version and it failed miserably.

  • @squidgybidge Funnily enough today I had 'poundland' non-branded version (buy 1 500ml get one free) in the basket, then I spotted the real deal, they were £1 each (250ml) so I got 2. Tried it on an old Scalextric building today and I've got to say IT WORKS!...I'm not finished yet as because it's a building it's too big to fit in the container I'm using, I've done like half of it now I need to turn it upside down to do the other half. Will let you know how task progresses as soon as......

  • @squidgybidge....Next day update: I didn't buy enough of this stuff to do something as big as the scaley building, as I said in my previous post I couldn't submerge it full into the Dettol, I would recommend if anyone is planning to do a building to buy at least 1ltr (4x250ml from poundland @ £4.00) and use a container that's a perfect fit for it.

    Also it should be noted the Dettol softens the glue, glad it did as I was able to remove it from places it shouldn't be. Handy stuff thanx squidgy.

  • @squidgybidge...please be aware that poundland sell DETTOL, as well as the unbranded stuff, just in case my last post was confusing to others...as you say DON'T buy the unbranded, make sure it's Dettol. Cheers.

  • Does anyone know if this cleans off 'gloss varnish' from Games Workshop as well?

  • @LordTyrus00 I have had minis with "Ardcoat" on them dipped and it worked with them. It may depend on the depth of the coatings though. Try painting a bit a sprue and "Ardcoating" it then dipping it in dettol overnight to see if works.

    "Ardcoat" = GW Gloss varnish, but is the old name

  • I used this method for stripping paint from model trains, and it worked better than any other method I've tried. Thanks for posting it.

  • @usra060 Superb buddy. Very glad it worked for you.

    Just so others who see this vid know. Are you able tell us what type of paints were on them, so as to add to the knowledge pool? Or which train manufacturers, so that they know that plastic is also safe to dip?

  • @squidgybidge The models are from MDC Roundhouse. I'm not sure what paint was on the models. They were factory painted, the lettering was stamped, not painted or decals.

  • @usra060 Cheers. Its useful for everybody, if we know what successes people have had.

  • i have a audi r10 tdi and i have tamiya undercoat and humbrol silver on and the clear spary to protect in on aswell the bad thing is that its not worked now how can i get rid of all this off my model with out damage my model squidgybidge ?

  • @dgmcj Hey buddy. Sorry to hear that you had no success. I have had over time a couple of pieces that were difficult to remove the paint off (bought on e-bay, so I didn't know the paints used). These pieces took multiple soaks and scrubs over a period of time.

    Other substances that can be used for stripping models is "Simple Green" which is used by many of the modellers in the States. Sometimes available on QVC UK shopping channel and amazon website.

  • Tried it. Worked a treat. The only problem I came accross though, was the gloves I used leaked. For this type of work, I can't see past Marigolds.

    Great vid.

  • @jackhaughey Yeah, I have suffered the same problem a few times. I choose to persevere though, as I have trouble feeling the bits through Marigolds, also my hands are quite big, so Marigolds are not a great fit.

    Glad its working for you though.

  • @jackhaughey I find a couple of pairs or so of latex gloves do the trick, bit more durable but you can still feel through them

  • @vaudevilleUK Cheers for that. Will need to give that a try. Though, I generally don't need much "feel" when cleaning, as it's been metals up till now. Can appreciate you would need more control for plastics, being a bit lighter when handling.

    Trip to Costco on the cards for me I think. Cheers

  • Squidgybridge, thank you so much for this video! I've recently been able to repaint my entire 5000 point tyranid army because of this and it looks fantastic!

    Where are you from btw? Definitly west coast of Scotland!

  • @AquaBauz Fantastic. I am so glad the tip helped you out. 5000 points that's a lot of Nids. Was raised out on the West Coast, but now over on the East.

  • LYSOL is DETTOL for us american users i tried it on a 1/48 b17 ball turret(glass plastic) and worked..lysol

  • @n8tivguitar Lysol is also available in the UK. It was the product of choice to disinfect hospitals over here in the 60's. No longer used, probably due to govt cutbacks, rather than lack of effectiveness.

    Glad you have found a suitable substitute for Dettol. You should do a vid, so that US users can see the stuff in action. If you do one, let me know when the vid goes up.

  • What exactly is Dettol? Im from America so i dont know.

  • @RictaWave Hi Dettol is a brand of disinfectant. Seems to be found in the UK.

    If you type in dettol . co .uk in your browser you will get the manufacturers web page.

  • @squidgybidge Thanks for the help. ^_^

  • hi, could you tell me if you could put multi part minitures ie glued ones in? do they stay together?

  • @wilkoroolz Depends on how well they have been glued together. If plastic glue was used, it actually melts the plastic components at a molecular level, so that they stay together. If superglue was used, then quite often they come apart.

  • Which dettol do i use?dettol for washing hand or bathing?

  • @yang576 Neither. Dettol disinfectant.

  • kann mir jemand ne nachricht schicken wenn er weiß was das deutsche pendant zu dettol ist? ^^

  • @NikSantSurvivedEndor Die Dettol Marke ist weltweit bekannt, verwendet sprechen Arbornoctua, wie ich glaube, er schaffte es, sich einige, wo (ein Import gewesen sein mag).

  • Haha, I didn't listen, I have gloves, chose not to use them... Now I have dry hands!

  • @Olliek94 Not a clever move there dude. How are the hands doing now?

  • Yeah Amazing thanks for the advice on this subject , i have a load of messed up minatures i will use this process ;) thanks!

  • @lukewind13 Enjoy.

  • @squidgybidge any idea if it removes gloss paint ?

  • @mattyp1239 So far had success with various acrylics and also either Airfix / Humbrol enamels. Never tried it on Gloss paints though.

  • @squidgybidge ill give it a go at the weekend and get back to you if it works lets see how bad i do

  • Fantastic Tutorial bud! Marneus sent me over to check this out as I am about to give Dettol a shot in stripping a couple hundred Tyranids. LOL

    Thanks for sharing!

  • @VividAdventures2010 Thank you. Remember to leave them in for the 24 hours and then strip away. If I was you I would do them in batches, as the toothbrush part does take a few minutes per mini and with a couple of hundred you could be there for one hell of a time.

    So far I have had a 100% success rate. Strips acrylic, enamel an unknown paints on minis from eBay. Occasionally some stubborn minis have required a second dip, but this has been less than 1% of the time.

    Enjoy Buddy.

  • @squidgybidge I have no problem giving them at least 24 hours in the bath. I have been using other products and leave them in at least that long as well. I hear you on the batches too. I have a small pail I usually do it in. I get about a dozen small models in there and varies from there depending on the size. I am in the same boat though as far as not knowing what some of these paints used were. I got most of this army used and some are really stubborn trying to get fairly clean. ;) Thanks!

  • That is the stuff i am looking for, for ages. Thanks a lot to share this info. Actually I did a responce vid, to show that this even works in good old germany ;-). I say this because most off the material that is referred to on youtube, you can't get in germany. But Dettol you can get at least via ebay! Yeah, you can get everything to everywhere if you don't care about shipping ;-)

  • amazing, thanks! I really appreciated this vid.

  • which arsehole disliked this vid?

  • Poundland has Electric Toothbrushes for "You Guessed It!) £1. Just bought one to strip Space Marines. Does a great job and comes with three heads. Obviously you cannot keep that one in the bucket...

  • @Haggistom I am guessing you go to the one at the Fort, that's where I like to go "Pound Shop Pillaging". Yes, I am still using that same old brush and it's still going strong. I have an electric one sitting there ready to use, but still on the old one.

  • will this remove sceneruy from the bases this was a great vid cause i need to strip some of me lizzies!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Thanks

  • @Mandalie720 Not really sure what you mean by removing scenery, but it does weaken glue bonds a little.

  • ya ya mate!! thanks a lot. i used to play 40k years ago but im gettin into again and i want to restyle ALL of my figures! i appreciate this vid a lot

  • @nikolaizolo It's a pleasure to help out.

  • Thanks for your help mate!

  • Thanks for the help! What is the chemicals in the Dettol? I will try to mach them up with what we have in the states. It may be Simple green, and it may not. This is a great vid!

  • @Generalsplatton Hi Buddy. Lifted from wiki. The active ingredient which defines its unique antiseptic property is an aromatic chemical compound known as chloroxylenol (C8H9ClO). This makes up 4.8% of Dettol's total mixture, with the rest composed of pine oil, isopropanol, castor oil soap, caramel, and water. Because several of the ingredients are insoluble in water, Dettol produces a white emulsion of oil droplets when diluted during use."

  • Does the Dettol Multi Action, Complete Cleaners work?

    Since i cant find this stuff any were >.<

  • @xbelson Not tried it, but I suspect no. You are looking for the disinfectant. It's the brown stuff that turns a white / cloudy appearance when added to water. I suspect the stuff you are talking about would melt your mini's.

  • @squidgybidge

    Thanks, Ive tryed all the shops around me for this stuff and its so hard to come by, Il just keep on looking XD

  • @xbelson One of the main supermarkets like Tesco or Asda should sell it, but it will be in much smaller bottle sizes, probably also available from pharmacies as well. I get the commercial use bottle from Costco.

  • Do you know if there is a Dettol equivilant here in the states? I dont think they sell that here.

  • @EvLmongoose Simple Green seems to be the choice of stripping agent over in the states, but unlike Dettol, I believe it is only usable once, maybe twice before you have to use fresh stuff.

    Where as the same batch of Dettol can last you mini after mini. Dettol is an antiseptic / disinfectant if you want to look for a similar product. Most people in the states seem to be happy Simple Green though.

  • @EvLmongoose i second this question

  • Great vid. Shows clearly what many sites only describe.

  • i go to cosco in glasgow

  • do you need to add water , and if so how much?

  • @PR0UD2BEBR1TISH Raw dettol, do not add water.

  • Thanks! I've just been bought a Blood bowl set and the figures were badly painted! At Least now I can get them up to standard!